The far-right threat has been checked in France, conservatives lost in the UK. Is there hope for the US?

[Danzigdawson]

The far-right anti-immigration, anti-LGBTQ+ Rassemblement National (RN) has just lost the legislative election in France.

The RN and its leaders were predicted to perform gloriously at the polls, but they finally came in in third, behind the newly formed coalition of many different left-wing, pro-Macron forces called the Nouveau Front Populaire.

In the UK, conservatives, who were elected with a broad majority back in 2019 (under human haystack Boris Johnson), lost in a landslide to the Labour Party: a center-left party that had not been performing well since the early 2000's.

These victories are kind of unexpected surprises, especially in France.

Putin, of course is pissed.

So... Is there hope for America? Will Trump's lead in the polls —again— lead to nothing? Will we finally get over this era of paleo-conservatism?

[caitycat21]

The thing about the far right Europeans anti immigration policies are never going to work in reality unless they adress the fact that their native born population is not reproducing enough to replenish the work force which is why the rely on immigrants. Their agenda will do nothing but crash their economy inevitably

[caitycat21]

Unless they quit taking the easy way out and blaming migrants which I doubt they’ll do.. many Europeans want to be xenophobic even against their fellow Europeans lol

[Gospeedracer]

Immigration isn't needed, Robotics and automation will supplement a shrinking workforce. Immigrants hate the thought of becoming minorities in their own homelands but Whites aren't allowed to oppose it in thier's.

[caitycat21]

European doesn’t equal white first off. And tech/ai cost insane to produce and maintain, we currently just do not have the infrastructure to sustain such a thing. I also don’t think most workers would be very happy to see ai take their jobs, that would be a detriment to the native workforce alike?

The idea they’re becoming minorities is a ridiculous scare tactic, population demographics have never been steady and are ever changing ever since the beginning of civilization - cultures have changed and adapted/died out if they fail to adapt.

[Gospeedracer]

European is white you have just been indoctrinated into thinking that it's wrong not to give away everything we have. the Indians are still resentful of white people for colonizing them before WW2. the cost of Automation is doing down all the time and it will soon be very affordable. Elon Musk said that capitalists shouldn't profit from automation but any money made from a automated process should be put into a fund and then divided up and evenly handed out to the public as a basic wage.

[provokeesmokee]

Nah.

They're dommed to a literal fascist dictatorship with the recent Supreme Court decision for Trump.

But hey, 248 years. They're due for collapse, and we may as well go for a global crisis bingo.

[Danzigdawson]

Let's hope not and let's also hope that the US will somehow manage to make good use of the current threat to democracy to improve the country.

The odds may be against it, but a global crisis gamble is basically russian-roulette style double or nothing.

[provokeesmokee]

Bruh, they can't bring themselves to modernize the Founding Father's bullshit. And them bitches have been dead for centuries.

The Supreme Court decided a fast track to Orange Hitler is the play.

America is done for.

[Danzigdawson]

Yeah, but I was going for the blind, naive hope...

[provokeesmokee]

Blind naive hope doesn't save your democracy.

Blind naive anything won't help you in your fascist future.

Read on early Nazi history, how to organize local resistance, and investigate what you need to do to escape.

The writing is on the wall. History shows us how the next 40 years for your people will play out. Keep yourself safe.

[nightdrot]

There are a multiplicity of problems with the question. Not least of which is that it is attempting to classify ideologies across cultures and that it also seeks to apply the same generic observation to varying circumstances.

To take the second point, first, the Conservatives lost the election after 14 years in power. By almost any measure a government will have reached its' intellectual and practical limits. It is simply the case that the price of exercising political power is the gradual resolution - not perfectly, to be sure, there is no perfection in this life - of the issues that brought the party to power.

Even then it is also worth noting that the Labour Party won only after tossing out its' more ideological leaders and replacing them with party moderates. Indeed, the new Labour Party leader and prime minister, Keir Starmer, won only by adopting a tougher line on immigration and insisting that he would more deeply implement Brexit. Hardly a shift to the "left."

As to France, given the nature of their parliamentary system, the effect was to mute the ideological extremes. The conservative parties dominated the first round of the elections. This was then countered by the left of center parties moderating their positions allowing them to pick up tactical voters.

Please note that in both cases, the changes were far less than a simple reading of the headlines would suggest.

As far as all this applies to the USA, it is really an apples to oranges comparison. At the moment, the USA is experiencing a period of populist politics. Populism is not a schematic political philosophy. Rather it is an attitude toward society and politics characterized by a distrust of elites and established institutions, a belief that complexity is merely a cloak for elites to exploit the common man, and a belief that the common man is the paragon of virtue and truth.

Populism can cross what are conventionally viewed as conservative and liberal viewpoints and offers no sociology to back its political assumptions. Thus, for example, Mr. Trump opposed reform of Social Security and Medicare. (To the colossal annoyance of former Speaker Ryan.) Thus, in the latter, it offers no logical case for how, once the common man is elected to high office, he does not remain "common" but then becomes part of the "establishment" to which the populists have defined themselves in opposition.

It is important to understand populism at the present time because it is the dominant motif of American politics. Both President Biden and former President Trump's agendas are a mishmash of varying policies, mostly designed to appease resentments - some justified, most not.

The policies have no unifying consistency beyond appeasing the grievances of the hour and as the grievances change, so will the policy priorities change. Hence, for example, Mr. Trump railed against Obamacare on the campaign trail and then, in office as it became popular, he made minimal effort - and continues to make minimal effort - to overturn it. Being rather content to blame the Congress for his failure rather than proffer any viable alternatives.

Hence Mr. Biden's recent attacks on the "elites," whom he blamed for trying to force him not to run again. This was a generic accusation that made no attempt to differentiate those in the GOP and those in his own Democratic Party who are pressuring him not to seek re-election.

By the way, it is also no coincidence that 11% of Sanders supporters went on to vote for Mr. Trump in the general election. That overlap between the alleged socialist and capitalist speaks to their real populist commonality.

Bottom line, the cultural and political forces at work in the USA are in many ways - not all, to be sure - very different than those in Europe. This making any attempt to extrapolate one outcome from the other two, at best, a hazardous interpretation of the data.

[purplepoppy]

Nope you're totally fucked and here's why. In the UK you have two main parties, slightly right and slightly left (Conservative and Labour) but you've also got the lib dems bang in the middle just in case you can't decide. Now all of these parties want to distance themselves from extremists and hate mongers. But don't worry because if you're a communist or a right wing racist you're well catered for with other parties like Reform.

And that's the difference, the extremists don't get to influence policy in the same way as in America. You may be a nice moderate Conservative with nothing against blacks, Muslims, gays, women etc but in America you still get into bed with the extremists

[Danzigdawson]

Indeed.

However, like I said in one of the comments below, there seem to be a fallacious tendency, with many people, to declare the far-left and far-right to be pretty much the same thing.

They are in some ways but they differ in many others. Both are dangerous when they have absolute power and authority: "absolute power corrupts absolutely". A tenet that's true regarding every regime, were it center, left or right, extreme or not. The result may be the same oppression, but the goals are very different.

Most importantly, however, I think that it's important to realize that —in the present context— the far-right, all across the globe, is much more popular, much more angry, much more motivated to gain power, much more a source of disinformation and much more anti-democratic than the far-left is, as of now.

That's why, to me, it's a gross miscalculation , at the present, in 2024, to declare the far-left and the far-right to be equally as dangerous. The far-left is way less well-organized, legitmized by the masses and well-financed. Far-right terrorism in the US has been on the rise since Trump's presidency and it has surpassed islamic extremist terrorism (which was the main and almost only concern until about 2017 or so) as a threat to national security.

The far-right have proven, in the US, as well as in Russia, that they are not at all above political violence to achieve their goals. After all, Jan 6. was an insurrection: a violent, angry attempt to overturn democratic elections.

[RavVid]

I don't think the UK result was unexpected at all. Conservatives had been in gov't for 14 years. Parliamentary gov'ts top out at about a decade and usually infighting destroys them. Truss's 60 days as PM was uninspiring. Had they won it would have been 5 presidential terms to put it in perspective.

I don't pretend to understand French politics but I think it is exaggeration to say NFP is pro Macron. More, NFP destroyed Macron's Renaissance party.

I'm curious, why do you consider anti immigration to be far right?

[Danzigdawson]

Because it is: it's a pretty well-known trend in right wing politics and it has been for a few years now.

[RavVid]

Saying it is because it is, in terms of immigration is not even an argument.

At best you can say being opposed to free borders is racist because another racial group wants to get in and to oppose them is racist and to be racist is to be Far Right. It is a poor argument but a lot better than it is because it is since it is an argument and more than an assertion.

[Danzigdawson]

Let me rephrase the beginning of your reply so it's more of an accurate reflection of what i actually said:

Because it is, due to the fact that it's a pretty well-known trend in right wing politics and it has been for a few years now, in terms of immigration, is not even an argument.

Now you may proceed.

[Lynx122]

The Uk one was not unexpected at all I'm happy about it I hope they can actually turn do something positive. Idc much about french elections tbh. Idc about American elections anymore either. To me the American political system is the most boring and repetitive out of all the ones in the world. It was interesting to me when I was 18 and I was learning about the world but now I'm so bored. Either there's a republican loon like trump or bush and the media loses their shit over them or there's a more center guy who pretends to lean a bit left and it seems like maybe he could do something positive but then he never does. They create this whole circus and people pretend like their lives depend on the outcome and then nothing really changes at all. The ide who lost will always pretend like everything is worse now and would've been better with their president but it's not true. The only hope I see if the political system is reformed otherwise it's just the same old same old.

[thomastown]

These leftist freaks welcome illegal immigrants into the country from every terrorist nation in the world, then, over and over, we see stories of them screaming in agony when their own family members are killed by these violent thugs, demanding to know why no one did anything to prevent this infiltration of our borders. They only care when it affects them personally.

As Americans we are subjected to invasive background checks worse than a colonoscopy just to get an ordinary low-level job, but we don't care whether completely unknown and possibly dangerous foreigners are allowed to live next door without any standards whatsoever.

[DrPepper12]

Hyoerbolic and partially false.

[Danzigdawson]

I would be tempted to think that, collectively, the immigrants who came into the US during the last 4 years probably killed less people than mass shooters and homegrown all-american criminals during the same time period.

[NaultD]

While USA and it's political power makes waves around the world. I do think this is the world is responding who hates fashist kings who are above the law, this is no time to rest on our laurels.

It's even more responsibility to make sure the world is a better place. To follow through no matter how rough it gets to truly follow through.

[alice55]

Actually for France you're completely wrong 10 million of French voted RN, 6,7 million voted for Macron and 7 million for far left so far right have ways more supporter, also in 2022 far right had only 88 deputy today they have nearly 150 deputy this is a win not a lost.

The French far right party won't go to power today neither tomorrow but it'll come quickly and surely in the following years.

The area of conservatism have only just began.

[KostasKouvalis]

I agree, the time will come. People are starting to wake up and favor Conservative policies. I don't know how anyone who wants their country to succeed can vote for Liberals.

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis They don't give a shit about their countries the one who vote for left, if you watch closely you'll notice that liberal party in France never show the French flag anywhere but there's tons of Muslim flag.
Also I'm not sure if the far right will ever go in power considering that all other party are just one big one who do trick to stay in power (like Macron say don't vote for far left then the day after he said to vote for far left so not to let the RN go in power).

[KostasKouvalis]

Same here. They fly Palestinian and LGBT flag. And I don't understand why they love minorities and migrants from third world countries more than their own people. Their priorities are so weird. They care more about where Caitlin Jenner can take a shit, or that illegal immigrants have money, then they care about the economy and getting our homeless off the street.
And I guess they get benefits too.

Sounds about right. Here, Republicans don't support each other, while Democrats do.

[KostasKouvalis]

youtube.com/shorts/NpLcQnTPZTo?si=LlEAFzIZh3PHH1NZ

This guy is SO right!

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis The weirdest thins is that the left love feminist, gay and trans people and the countries they love and defend so much hate them, if they saw a trans or gay man they would stone him to death. They hate their own country that's actually very advanced in terms of feminism and right for trans and gay and love racist / misogynistic countries, etc... they make no sense at all.
Just like Muslim in France voting far left while they would threw a fit if their son was gay or their daughter not a virgin until wedding.
so weird

The same happen in France too with leftist but with other French people they put French flag everywhere, during the tour de France they went to Italy then to France and the speaker was like "Now we're in France there's French flag absolutly everywhere" XD

[KostasKouvalis]

EXACTLY! That's the part no one can grasp! Though I saw one video where some Liberals changed their minds after a reporter showed them what Palestinians were saying about gay people, but most are either too stupid or don't wanna listen.

EXACTLY! I only met one Liberal guy on here who supported countries that have gay rights and hated ultra religious/Conservative countries.

There was one black lady in the last Olympics, she refused to stand for the national anthem, so people were asking her, "If you hate this country and think it's racist, why are you competing for it?"

Here too. Actually, Muslims in the U. S. used to vote Republican until 911. I guess it's like choosing the lesser of two evils. They still think Liberals treat them better than Conservatives treat them.

LOL! You don't see that so much in other countries though. In the US, our flag is EVERYWHERE! And when foreigners say they find it weird, Conservatives bully them. That's why I'm not hugely fond of our Conservatives either. I prefer them over Liberals of course, but a lot of them are so nationalistic, it's crazy! They think the U. S. and Americans are the greatest things ever invented and the American way, is the RIGHT way!
There was one idiot on here, I posted a picture of our homeless camps and he said, "That's only Commifornia". It wasn't even a picture from CA. And he said every country that isn't the U. S. is a "shithole" and specifically mentioned France. Just like the U. S. had nice and shitty areas, so does France. And the worst neighborhood in France is probably still better than our worst neighborhood. I swear, some Conservatives are also idiots! I don't like to identify with them, and I consider myself a Moderate Conservative.

[KostasKouvalis]

I saw a very interesting question on here, where the argument was brought up about how the American flag has now become a political symbol. If you fly the American flag, you must be a Conservative and if you fly the Rainbow flag, you must be a Liberal. I do think that our flag no longer represents what it once did, and it's very sad that our country has come to this.

I'm not very patriotic though, except when it comes to our football team ^^ Though I can get defensive of the U. S. sometimes. But I think Conservatives take it too far and aren't being realistic. You can be patriotic without being arrogant.

[Danzigdawson]

@alice55 Ah! The area of conservatism. May it encompass many square feet.

[KostasKouvalis]

I can't tell anymore if you're trolling or being serious. But I am very disappointed to learn that you are from Quebec. You must be from Montreal, because Quebec is generally a conservative province.

[Danzigdawson]

@KostasKouvalis I'm not but that's probably the only city you know. As for conservative "Quebec", our current incompetent provincial government is kind of right-wing, but compared to the US, the whole province still remains liberal heaven, fortunately.

[alice55]

@KostasKouvalis They actually just don't want to understand, they're so ridiculous. I'm against Israel attack because there's Christian in Gaza getting bombarded (also the fact that 70 % of the victim are children and some women, Jews kill 3 time more children than women, I don't get them). But seeing leftist supporting people that just consider any gay / trans as subhuman is so weird.
What a miracle though for a leftist hating on people culture is quite ironic XD
There's always weird people, she live in the country, pay her tax there but then refuse to sing a small song.
Weird if they have the American nationality, I can get it if they don't have it but if they vote they have so it's very weird, they won't get kicked out.
American are so weird they either worship America or say it's a shithole, I've seen so many American insulting America and praising all others countries but yes we don't have many French flag around compared to American XD
I guess the Apero is enough to feel proud to be French XD
That's for sure, the worst area of France are definitely better than American ghetto, worst area of France is Marseille and the city is still quite beautiful.

Left and right are so weird, just like the amount of racist conservative in America marrying Latina and Asian women they make no sense like if they love America so much and hate immigrant then why make baby with a woman that is a immigrant and having children that won't look like you but look like immigrant its so weird.

[Danzigdawson]

Tu es sensée venir de France... conséquemment, débats en français. Il y a quelques temps, j'ai démoli un de tes commentaires, en écrivant en français, pour n'avoir aucune suite. Prouve que tu n'es pas un troll Russe.

[alice55]

Je répond a des centaine de messages par jours donc en fait je n'ai surement juste pas vue ton message, je m'en serais rappeler si j'avais vu un message en Français sur gag, dommage que tu sois Canadien et pas Français, il y'a vraiment trop peu de Français ici.

Apres le fait que je parle Français prouve quoi? Il y'a pas mal de Russe qui parlent bien le Français (bon fait pas attention au fautes d'orthographe je suis vraiment nul a chier en orthographe ca a jamais été mon trucs).

Je ne suis pas contre débatte en Français la seul chose c que c pas qqch qui est autorise sur ce site, ils autorisent que l'anglais... J'ai deja parler en Français ici et j'ai eu mon message supprimé car c'était pas ecrit dans leur langue.

Et qu'est ce qui te fait penser que je suis un troll russe serieux? Tous les jours je rencontre des fans de Russie en France et mon grand père encore plus quand il se promène avec son t shirt avec l'aigle Russe ou encore son t shirt marquer URSS.

[Danzigdawson]

Je suis inévitablement névrosé, psychotique et paranoïaque, étant gauchiste.

[alice55]

Non pour la gauche je trouve qu'ils crient trop surtout LFI XD
et le PS en France c'st pas la gauche c'est just un parti de capitaliste (c'est eux qui ont implanter Uber eat et les VSL)
Je ne deteste pas la gauche c'est juste que le fait d'enlever les armes a la police et vider lesprison en relâchant les criminelles ca n'a aucun sens et c meme dangereux. En ce qui concerne le partage des richesse je suis d'accord avec la gauche mais pour la sécurité leur programme en France est just est pas possible.

[DryGermanGuy]

To be honest, in France let's wait for their idea of a working government. I am not sure about the capabilities and seriousness of this new left/communist/green coalition. At least they got François Hollande into parliament, he actually knows the job. The FN/RN finishing third is of course a relief.

[Danzigdawson]

The point here is the hope that things may be, slowly but surely, changing.

[DryGermanGuy]

100% and there is always hope where people are fighting for democracy, law and constitution. For the United States specifically, I would not be surprised if Trump's association with Project 2025 will defeat him in November. He is already doing a clumsy distancing maneuver.

[Danzigdawson]

👍 Well said!

[Drewtate]

Lol labour in the UK is coming out against ilegal immigration and supporting capitalist economic growth.

The Conservative Party in france has gained massive ground and if far left wingers and Liberals in france double down (which they will) on the very policies that have increased support for le Penn's party will be elected next time.

[Danzigdawson]

1. It's 'Le Pen', not 'Le (Sean) Penn'
2. There is currently no party named "Conservative Party (Parti Conservateur)" in France
3. In the UK, the Labour Party appears to hope to reduce immigration for such reasons as to keep on being able to provide good living conditions for immigrants. A country that allows for too much immigration will struggle to integrate those new citizens properly. Poverty, misery and inequality would be what awaits most of them, instead of a decent standard of living.
4. The Rassemblement National sees illegal immigration as a threat to France and they want to deport a lot of what they consider to be illegals. The great replacement conspiracy theory appears to be quite popular amongst RN voters; a racist conspiracy, which, after all, unfortunately stems from a frenchman: author Renaud Camus.

[Drewtate]

The EU is moving 1 million immigrants into the Republic of Ireland in the next ten years, a country with 5 million people.

[FreyaRed]

No. Most right wing voters are protest voters. Most right wingers don't want totalitarian Adolf like regime. Protest voters just don't want to vote for establishment parties which ruled countries for decades and are responsible for current mess. It doesn't really matter, left or right, what matters is bringing the fat pigs away from the trough

[Danzigdawson]

In the United States' case, it's pretty clear that the republican party has been running the show —poorly— ever since Nixon, even when democrats were in power. The "establishment" that people should really worry about are the billionaires who use the GOP as a tool so they won't have to pay way, way more taxes like they should in a fair system. In wasn't always this way, but right now, GOP = Tax cuts for the rich/Bread and circuses for the rest.

"Hey masses, we'll passionately support whatever stupid conservative cause you want to shove down the throat of the whole country. Even ending democracy! ... As long as you let us get rich and stay rich off your backs".

[AviatorTom]

UK and France have indicated a preference for liberalism, not socialism. The Democratic Party in the US is farther left than that, pushing socialist policies. What happened in just two countries of Europe (there are many more European countries with liberal, moderate and conservative governments) has no effect on the US.

[Danzigdawson]

Socialist policies such as what? Universal healthcare?

[KostasKouvalis]

"Threat". Yes, maybe to freaks, terrorists and White haters, they are a threat. You're not even French so what do you care?

Yes, there IS hope for the U. S. that they won't make the same mistake and won't elect Alzheimer for another 4 years

[Danzigdawson]

Alzheimer red or Alzheimer blue?

[KostasKouvalis]

There's only one Alzheimer

[Danzigdawson]

78 year-old senile or 81 year-old senile?

[alice55]

LePen didn't lost in France two years ago she had 88 deputy today she have nearly 150 deputy this is a win a slow win but a sure won for the following years.
10 million of people voted for her while only 6,7 voted for Macron and 7 for far left, also majority of the election was fake (like deputy were elected with 88 % this is just not possible) many voting house didn't have Le Pen paper so people couldn't vote for her, the whole election is a joke. This is democratic by Macron.

[KostasKouvalis]

@alice55 What's a "deputy"?
I'm not sure how your elections work, but from what you're saying sounds like it was rigged.

[alice55]

The deputy in France are made for voting the laws (though it's a joke because with the 49.3 laws the president can vote alone all of his laws without asking anyone else).
It definitely was, two weeks ago for the first round they gave everyone a enveloppe with our "voting paper" (the one with the name of the person we want to vote for) but they only gave me the one with Macron and far left... The paper of the right was broke into two and the one of Le Pen wasn't into it... And it was this ways for many people. I was able to vote for her the two round but some people didn't have my chance and couldn't vote at all.

[KostasKouvalis]

@alice55

So like our House of Representatives. But here it's the opposite, the President has less power. They can even override his veto, so I don't know why they even give him the option to veto it. And by the time bill hits the President's desk, it can be changed so much. But President can issue executive orders.

THAT is crazy! Voting is mandatory in France?
I can't believe there are still people denying there was election fraud in the US when it's happening everywhere!
This makes me so mad! But it only shows their desperation.

[Lliam]

"Far-right” is now a meaningless expression of disdain for the peasants who challenge state power.

The modifier “far” by definition signifies an outlier of some kind when, in fact, the corporate state calls anyone who disagrees with it by the name.

[Danzigdawson]

Inversely, "woke" is now a meaningless expression of disdain for the anyone who challenges conservative views. Wokes are of course, always and invariably, declared to far-left.

[DrPepper12]

Yes. It was very comforting to see those results and they give me hope!!

[Snakeyes7]

The National Rally had around 10 million votes and the new popular front won around 7 million and yet the latter won? What sense does that make?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_French_legislative_election

[DarkWinterNights]

The “far right threat” lol. I’m starting to realize the Left in the West doesn’t really have a lot of foresight outside of winning the next election. Y’all are still living in the 90’s.

[Danzigdawson]

Better than to be stuck in 1933.

[genericname85]

it's funny how nobody ever speaks about the far left threat xD like both isn't ideal.

[Danzigdawson]

That's all every single Trumpist and conservative has been talking about for almost 10 years. Were you in a coma?

[genericname85]

My opinion has 2 likes so I can't be that far off

[Danzigdawson]

Likes makes things true. Well played.

[PA19062024]

Now you've got three likes :)
Mr. Dawson here doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

[genericname85]

@PA19062024 yeah likes don't make an answer true but it's very unlikely to get likes or here of you're talking bullshit

[Danzigdawson]

Tuh-rig-gered 😄

[genericname85]

xD oh yeah that's a good tactic. get called out on talking bullshit and then accusing the others on being triggered. lol. what a clown.

[Danzigdawson]

I don't have tactics. I just won't make any effort to reply seriously and at lenght to stupid comments from stupid people.

[PA19062024]

"I don't have tactics". - Dawson
And you don't have anything else either, like a solid case for why anyone in their right mind would want communism.
I can only conclude you're a deranged troll.

[sawno]

All these countries have broken voting systems, yours does to but it won't translate one to one.

[In_Trance]

I can't believe you guys take this shit seriously

[Danzigdawson]

Yes and no. It's a little bit more complicated than that, like almost everything in life. There are important key differences.

Oppression from the far-left historically came from paranoid regimes who gained power during revolutions or wars. Those regimes felt like they were constantly under the threat of another revolution which would try to get rid of them. They tried to implement radical ideas, fast and without discussion, that were in stark contrast with tradition.

Communism has always been a system of oppression for the simple reason that has always been forced down the throats of reluctant people who had to get along with radical change. It was never voted in democratically by a large majority and it was never a system that was coupled with democracy.

In other words, communism, which is usually far-left incarnate in most people's mind, is not a bad ideology in itself. While Leninism, Maoism and other bastardized philosophies based on Marxism were calling for oppression, Marxism in itself, taken pure, is not at all about oppression. On the contrary.

The far-right, on the other hand, is another story, with nazism being its most prominent example. Oppression was imbedded into the nazis' ideology because their worldview was based on their belief that white, aryan people were superior to every other human being. The nazis saw humanity in terms of social darwinism. The strong deserved to rule and to thrive, while the weak deserved to be under the yolk of the so-called "master race". "Freaks of nature" like the handicapped, the mentally ill and others were declared to be life unworthy of life. Democracy banned outright, for it was perceived as weak, as was socialism and any kind of charitable enterprise.

[In_Trance]

You're incorrect. If you truly believe there are differences you're more brainwashed than I thought.
You're sadly mistaken if you think there's going to be any type of change regardless of political party in power. No matter who you think is in charge life will only get more expensive and harder to live

[Danzigdawson]

Maybe you should read "Le siècle des idéologies" by french philosopher Jean-Pierre Faye (provided that there's an English version), which goes into detail, at lenght, on this very subject. Eric Hoffer's "True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" would be a good start.

Until then, why would I even give a fuck that you think that I'm wrong?

[PA19062024]

"In other words, communism, which is usually far-left incarnate in most people's mind, is not a bad ideology in itself." - Dawson
Yes, it is a bad ideology. Only someone who knows nothing at all about communism could ever say, with a straight face, that it's "not so bad".

[Danzigdawson]

@PA19062024 Have you read Marx's Communist Manifesto? Did you take into account all of the nuances here? Have you noticed that I do believe that leninism and maoism are oppressive and bastardized forms of marxism and that pretty much every communist regime that ever existed was or still is dictatorial?

Like I said, Marx's philosophy has never been put in place democratically, by a majority AND it has never been coupled with an enduring democracy.

So, if you've never read even one book from Marx, or any other philosopher for that matter, would you kindly shut the fuck up and realize that you, yourself, does not know anything of interest pertaining to this particular debate?

[PA19062024]

Actually yes, I have read 'The Communist Manifesto' and 'Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-Tung' as well, and I can truthfully say that I hate everything that rotten ideology stands for!

[PA19062024]

"So, if you've never read even one book from Marx..."
Wow, you're assuming I haven't read any of the works of Marx, and upon that (entirely baseless) assumption you then conclude that therefore I shouldn't say anything about it. Ever hear of giving a person the benefit of the doubt?
As Benny Hill once put it: "Never assume, because you make an ass out of u and me"!
Twat!

[captain_voidwalker]

So wanting secure borders, and not supporting pedophiles is now considered far right? If God dosen't smite us he owes Sodom and ghemmora an apology

[handsomelad70]

But only if people arise to check the American crypto-Fascist threat.

[HH1488]

Been checked? It won a third of your government by accident, no?

[zombiewoof]

Watch BAD FAITH

[Danzigdawson]

I will!

[noohair]

Change is the only constant.

[SkatPak392]

you get what you vote for.

[gorydetails]

France is lost.

[Danzigdawson]

It's right there on the map: from the US east coast, look towards the upper right corner of the Atlantic Ocean. Go straight for the British Isles and proceed a little bit southwards. If you hit Spain or Algeria, you've gone too far. If you hit Kazakhstan or Mongolia, you're going way too far in the wrong direction. If you hit Madagascar, Malaysia or Bolivia, give up all hope of ever finding it and pour yourself an ice-cold glass of lemonade.

[gorydetails]

Was that an attempt at humor?

[Danzigdawson]

It was a success at humor.

[gorydetails]

Maybe to yourself.

[PA19062024]

Your humour is lame. Don't give up your day job (which is, no doubt, working as a propagandist for some radical far-Left new organisation).

[Danzigdawson]

@PA19062024 My humour is the best ever. It's really, really great. People can't get enough of it. However, one can't benefit from it when he's all riled up and vein-popping triggered like you seemed to be when you replied all over this GAG question. Come back in a couple of years when trump will finally have choked on his last Big Mac, and when christian nationalists will be defeated, with the country finally recovering from decades of stupid conservative policies... we'll look back at it and laugh, drinking aforementioned ice-cold glass of lemonade.

[gorydetails]

Ah, gotta love the Canadians. They try so hard.

[Danzigdawson]

So hard not to be stupid americans. And we usually succeed.

[gorydetails]

Lol. America's little brother loves to throw around insults to sound like they're the big guy.

[Danzigdawson]

I'm not really a proud Canadian because I'm Quebecois... but I sure am glad that I'm not from your third-world, failing, increasingly authoritarian country! 😆

[gorydetails]

Oh lord, a french POS on top of it, lol.

[Danzigdawson]

Yup! Way better than you entitled POS with an undeserved sense of achievement. How can you even believe that you've ever been "superior" at anything is beyond me.

Look at the whole Mayflower story: it's so fucking stupid it's sad. Delusional weirdos in a cult choose the worst moment of the year to cross the Atlantic and when they somehow manage to get over there and land, they realize that almost every Native American is dead from disease, only to interpret it as a sign that god wants them to populate this land.

[gorydetails]

From the group that has a conniption fit if a road sign isn't in French, lol.

[Danzigdawson]

Road signs always are in french: it's the law (except on First Nation territories, where signs usually are in the Nation's language). Anglos, innocent victims of the terrible french language laws, mainly living in Montreal, are the ones who are throwing a fit. But you got to undertsand them... there are only 9 provinces out of 10 and 50 states in the US in which they can live and work using their own language only. English is almost extinct in North America.

[Danzigdawson]

Which state are you from anyway? Would you be the kind of Texan idiot who would come to Canada with your gun because you think that US laws apply everywhere in the world? I mean, I'm sorry if you can't get a good night of sleep in our secure and way less crime-ridden cities, just because you don't have your semi-automatic, steel security blanket. But you got to stop being a pussy hiding behind a gun at some point.

Would you be the kind of appalachian inbred who'd come here only to die in a car crash because you couldn't understand what the word "arrêt" means, when written in white capital letters on a big red octogonal sign at the corner of a street?

[PA19062024]

Wow, you are so easily triggered. God, what a pathetic loser you are! :D

[gorydetails]

You are operating under the weird assumption I have any desire to visit Canada, lol.

[Danzigdawson]

Wow... you spend two days thinking and that's what you come up with?

[gorydetails]

lol, no you leftie crybabies got me put in gag jail for two days.