Are you voting for RFK JR?

[Miah04]

[WhiteSteve]

No, it’s just Operation: Beat Trump at this point. I would literally vote for Biden’s used diaper over Trump or any MAGA-style Republican🚫🚫🚫 RFK Jr can’t win anything, and probably just helps Trump.

I can’t wait to go back to not giving a rip about politics, this is exhausting, lmao. But anyone who doesn’t see the danger Trump/MAGA poses to American democracy as we know it, and the foreseeable future of most of our lifetimes, is either not paying attention, is getting their news and “information” from extremely questionable sources and/or lacks critical thinking and reasoning abilities, or is one the people complicit in trying to drag America backwards.

So this is just an all-hands-on-deck emergency situation, and wasting your vote on anyone who won’t seriously contend is basically a vote for Trump. RFK Jr has some kind of crazy views, in my opinion anyway, but even if I liked him better than Biden or whoever the Democratic nominee was, this isn’t a year to be “voting your conscience” or “punishing” Joe Biden because of some move he did or didn’t make that displeased you. The alternative is Trump. Period, end of story. The fact that that dude or his movement are even still in the conversation is one of the biggest black-eyes the American population could have to wear, and we’ve had no shortage of shiners in the past. Like the dude clearly is trying to install an authoritarian autocracy, and like had the country is actually like “sounds good, let’s do it”🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ We deserve everything we get if that guy ends up in the White House again, it’ll be because of our own stupidity and poor values and priorities. And I fear younger people don’t understand that none of this shit is normal since they haven’t been around long enough to see politics of the past. People lost their minds when Obama won, so if you don’t really remember presidencies before his, I definitely worry that this vitriolic climate has been normalized to those people.

RFK isn’t even going to be on the ballot in most states, as of today, and I’m not even sure he’ll be in the race come Election Day. So he’s just not someone I could seriously consider. I can’t be going off the beaten path in 2024, too much is at stake. I know it’s hard for some to get behind Biden, but sometimes we have to make hard decisions in life…. but honestly, with Trump/MAGA on the other side, I’m ASTOUNDED that this is even a consideration for anyone.

Lastly…. RFK’s wife is the actress who played Larry David’s wife Cheryl on Curb Your Enthusiasm, and I HATE Cheryl with the fire of a thousand suns, so the idea of her being the First Lady, even just the visual of her…. I can’t take 4-8 years of that😱

[Joshydavid25]

"No, it’s just Operation: Beat Trump at this point."
Not the best way to look at it.. I vote for the policies and the results not emotional feelings towards a candidate.. Trump for all his flaws that are constantly broadcasted to self righteous people had some pretty good policies out of the three.

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 I hear what you’re saying, and in a vacuum, I agree, as far as the policies and results. But there are just certain things to me that are deal-breakers. I don’t care if you have the cure for cancer in your pocket, hit the bricks. Or we’ll probably rush you for the cure paperwork first, and THEN send you crawling off😂

My take on all this isn’t necessarily based on “that mean man said “shithole countries” and “China Virus.” Like Trump doesn’t hurt my feelings, lmao. BUT, in a way I’ve never seen before, I do feel like Trump has brought out the worst emotions in a lot of Americans due to the rhetoric he uses, and I think that’s an overall very unhealthy thing for our society.

I probably come off as self-righteous, lmao, but whether I do or don’t, I come from a place of a genuine desire for universal human decency. I’d want that in public or in private, it’s not for show. And I’m so sorry to have to report this from the White People’s Camp, but other white people say racist or xenophobic shit to me ALL. THE. TIME. Casual as fuck, which tells me they assume it’s a normal and prevalent attitude they can share with another white acquaintance. And every last one of them rolls with Trump, when I find out, or they at least allude to it. So at some point, I gotta just believe what I’m seeing.

People like Trump for different reasons, so obviously I don’t want to paint everyone with that same brush. But it’s not really a secret that there’s a flavor of that to that movement, so anyone else on the train must just be somewhat OK with it or just in denial that it’s real or as strong as it is. MSNBC didn’t tell me this either, my information comes from life experience, which then lends further credibility to my anecdotal evidence.

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 I don’t know, man, politics aren’t my natural lane and I’m not prone to hysterics, but this whole MAGA thing seems pretty fucking sinister when you get to the root of it. Like it just seems very socially restrictive. Advocating for FEWER rights for FEWER people? That’s FUCKED UP, bro. I mean, no renegotiation of any trade deal is worth having a society where we make life more uncomfortable for certain groups. Like I just can’t wrap my head around that. Using religion or supposed “love of America” to be worse to people? What part of the game is that? I can never check a Republican box until that aspect of the party is cleaned up and cleaned out. After that, I’m more than happy to talk about taxes or regulations or big vs small government, back to NORMAL politics. I don’t think anyone on the left relishes the whole broader context of the conversation being “But we can’t do that because that would be a terrible thing to do on a human level, and anyone endorsing doing so historically would have been astronomically ashamed of themselves”, and Conservatives being like “LOL, we don’t care, fuck ‘em.” The conversation having descended to that impossibly shitty level is the only reason you guys even have to see me posting 10,000 fuckin’ words per post about anything political, haha. I can’t walk past the burning building, I gotta try to save the kittens inside, bystander mode deactivated, haha

[Joshydavid25]

"And I’m so sorry to have to report this from the White People’s Camp, but other white people say racist or xenophobic shit to me ALL. THE. TIME.
Oh, yeah I believe you, a lot do seem to hold some not so particularly harmonious views about other groups.. I can even tell from the way they may interact with me.. A lot of conservatives in particular seem to praise certain people and hold to some unfavorable views.. But from the "Black" people: s camp... They really ain't no better.. Also from an understanding POV... I don't blame them personally say... elites have done a good job of trying divide people.. "Black" people also dot help with the glorification of a degenerate culture or at least excusing it, and acting like "White" people are the devil.. I could see reasonable people getting tired of blame being put on them with a certain group in particular.. I think the people in charge are purposely trying to raise some racial tension and eventually start some type of war of conflict..

As for Trump, I don't really think he had much to do the climate ATM.. The media is really all to blame here in my opinion.. Taking much of what Trump says out of context to stole outrage among the population.. It's kinda evil in my eyes... Trump era media should go down in history..

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 sorry, meant to respond before but they shot his ass so I’ve been tied up with that, lmao

So, yeah, I just find that to be a big thing because racism obviously sucks, but just due to social dynamics, it’s not 1-to-1, it kinda carries more weight when white folks do it. But I guess on the other hand, one of my friends is from Tennessee, met him at our Learn-To-Play hockey class, and I invited him to private skate on Friday nights. It’s been cool but I was honestly apprehensive just because he’s black and I’ve heard a couple of the guys I skate with say some dumb shit. I was asking him how he’s doing up here in Boston, just on the overall, weather, etc, but he said something I forget but it prompted me to ask him something about racism he might run into in Boston, because we just have a lot of problems with the “old guard” around here, people who were throwing rocks at school buses 50 years ago back when they integrated the schools. But he was just like “bro…. I’m from Tennessee…. I had KKK headquarters a mile down the road from my house, this ain’t shit.” So I mean, what am I gonna say to that, haha.

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 As far as being the devil and all that, I think I just kind of resent that they’re trying to teach honest history, I think just so we all understand America and society better, past, present, and future, and a lot of white folks can’t hear it without internalizing it and getting uncomfortable, so they try to reject it or shut the conversation down, and that’s the wrong approach.

I just feel like Trump and his wild talk is just a bad permission slip being given to people. “I don’t care if I offend you!” I mean….. you really should, if you want to live in a polite society. I just never hear it used to say anything productive, like a harsh truth, it’s just people wanting to be dickheads and have some shield for themselves from repercussion. The media is a mess for sure and has their role, but it was ultimately Trump who brought this brand of irreverent insult comedy (rarely legitimately funny, but attempted, anyway) into politics. People are citing Trump, not the media, in defending their outspokenness. “He tells it like it is!”, and all that jazz.

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 Mainstream media is kind of inherently fucked as long as it’s designed for party-specific consumption. Because no one goes to the other side to get a clear view of shit, they sprint to the nearest outlet that will confirm the biases they walked in with. You seem to think left wing media is stoking anti-Trump outrage, and they are, but i do have to say Fox takes the cake with rhetoric and basically just lying or mischaracterizing to my face. Like out of the “Big 3”, FoxNews least matches the reality I live in, while seemingly being the most outraged, so they have the least credibility with me. I think the last three presidents have gotten slandered from their inauguration. I’d argue rightly so in a lot of Trump’s case, in my opinion, but regardless, every one of them was branded the worst of all time by the opposing network for Day One. So it’s hard to take any of it seriously. I guess it just comes down to I can listen to Trump’s original words without edit or commentary, and be totally disgusted by it, and with Joe, what he says, I’m on board in principle on a moral level, but I’m just like “holy smokes this dude is old as fucccccckkkkkkkk” lmao

I don’t know, I feel like the Trump outrage is well-earned, but you’re not wrong that the media was going to spin it that way one way or the other

[WilliamPamer446]

Authoritarianism anti 3rd party I see.

[WhiteSteve]

@WilliamPamer446 certainly not into authoritarianism, that’s like 90% of my problem with Trump.

Anti-3rd party…. not at all. But this just isn’t a year to fuck around. I would vote for the “same old, same old” establishment Democrats right now over anything MAGA, or anything with restrictive and persecutorial social policies. We’d probably have President Harris at some point, I don’t think Joe will reach the finish line, but it’s the overall administration that I soft-trust, and I hard-DIStrust Trump and anyone like him.

RFK wouldn’t be my guy for a 3rd party candidate, anti-vaxx stuff kinda weirds me out, first and foremost. Like I’m strongly opposed to anyone who is anti-expertise and tries to tell you that they or someone other than the smart people we would normally turn to for analysis and advice knows better than said experts. That’s a pretty automatic DQ for me. But another candidate? Sure, maybe. But I’d rather it be a year where I won’t want to jump out of a window if one of the other candidate wins, and this ain’t the year for that.

[WilliamPamer446]

Id vote libertarian lol. Not controlled opposition anti maga tricks.

[WilliamPamer446]

Let's continue the convo. It's getting somewhere good. I'm a libertarian who is dissatisfied with Democrat authoritarianism and controlled oppisifon. And also with trump.

[WhiteSteve]

@WilliamPamer446 haha, this is probably where we diverge. I don’t really have defined labels for myself, but I guess if I had a gun to my head, I’m an interpersonal-decency-over-absolutely-everything social progressive. I don’t have a ton of hard fiscal stances, I’m not a money guy, I just care about how we treat one another in society, and I’m just strongly anti-prejudiced-douchebag. The only authoritarianism I’d ever want is some sort of enforced decency regulation, but I don’t know how you’d even accomplish that in reality, lmao, that’s more pipe dream than proposed policy.

I probably used to have a little more Libertarian in me, but the longer I live, the less respect I have for the average human, their intelligence, and for them to just generally “do the right things” with regard to doing what’s best for everyone/everything rather than just doing what’s best for just them, or just doing whatever they want whether it’s good or not. Basically, I no longer trust humans to make wise decisions on their own, they lost my confidence. Obviously I don’t want to go the other way into authoritarianism, but life has taught me that we can’t just cruise through like “meh, people can do what they want, it’ll be fine.”

[WhiteSteve]

@WilliamPamer446 I have a hard time rolling with much of anything right wing these days, and I really struggle to see what’s so bad about what the left is pushing socially, and it would require a “you-problem” of bigotry to oppose. From where I’m standing, it’s just asking us to accept everyone as they are or as they want to be, and not giving them a hard time about it, portraying it as irregular behavior any different from the norm, safeguarding people from prejudice in whatever ways we can, and just generally creating a social climate in this country where everyone lives as they please, free of judgement or persecution from others on both institutional and individual levels. Zero tolerance for intolerance, not even necessarily by law, but by our culture, we need a cultural shift to occur. And that’s bigger than politics, but politics drives a lot of those conversations.

My biggest gripe with Democrats, is that they suck at battling against the Republicans. The Democrats have almost complete moral high ground in my eyes, yet they’re so afraid of coming off as partisan, they won’t lean into it and go on the attack, whereas the Republicans LOVE that kind of beef, and just seem to win the meme wars, even though they seem so wildly wrong about most things, and in some cases outright dishonest in their vilifications of this group or that group.

Republicans…. I liked them better when they were nerds with bow ties saying “not so fast…how are we gonna pay for that?” You need that guy. I DON’T need the Marjorie Taylor Greens of the world, she’s batshit crazy.

[WhiteSteve]

@WilliamPamer446 Almost all politicians are grifters, we know that, but superficially, the Democrats are blowing out the Republicans in the Human Decency category, and that’s the one I care about. So I’m always open to good ideas from good people, but where they’re at today, I would need a complete and sincere renouncement and denouncement of almost every social position they currently hold before I could even sit at the negotiating table to talk fiscal issues.

Right now the Republicans are Darth Vader and the Evil Empire, very clearly, as I see it, and I’m counting on the Democrats to step up and be Luke Skywalker, even though I’m just some random guy sitting in that weird Star Wars bar that looks like a Denny’s at 3 AM lmao

[handsomelad70]

Though America sorely needs a Constitutional Convention, I shudder to think of the kookbergers who'd emerge from their sewers were there one.

[Joshydavid25]

It's all good man, no rush.. LOL.. But, I feel like a lot of "Black" people needs chill on the whole racism.. I mean sure it's still around, but most "White" are okay.. A lot of "Black" people use it as like some moral arbiter and to try and use it as a moral high ground.. The KKK also has not been an important thing since the early 20th century.. I mean I live in segregated Chicago, and the worst I have come across in terms of racism is just that look of contempt from some "White" people and others.. But there's plenty of "White" people who are as cool as you are.. Most of them seem to be closer to hippies though.. 😂

[Miah04]

@Joshydavid25 i watched the BET awards amd at times listening to presenters talk, if you were to change the word white people to black people you would've thought you were at a white supermacy rally.

It has gotten out of control.

I used to be very supportive of what was going on, but i noticed it ramping up, and the cause went from trying to right social justice to just now openly demanding white people feel shame, for something none of them did, and they are lesser than us, and should give us everything because of it.

It is really disgusting what is going on.

[WilliamPamer446]

I didn't get a chance to respond yet cuz the app wasn't working last time and I wrote a long paragraph and it wouldn't send but I try to be nuanced on this stuff im a libertarian and there is a lot of controlled opposition going on the Marxists want white people to feel shame like Miah brilliantly pointed out and white people are bad often at listening to white people about nuanced issues

[WilliamPamer446]

White people are bad at listening to black people about nuanced issues*

[WilliamPamer446]

I don't wanna vote for trump anymore because he's a sellout & what u said about the. KKK it's still around there just not currently violent white supremacist still talk about there views in a little subculture but trust me they talk about getting violent "if they have to" and Marxist antaganize them by responding to racial issues in controlled opposition ways

[WilliamPamer446]

Telling black people to chill on racism was kinda rude I see where ur coming from but maybe we should instead listen to them in more nuanced ways

[Joshydavid25]

@miah04 Yeah, exactly I mean I've seen plenty of "Black" people and others openly criticize "White" people and call them the devils.. Even had one questionable dude come up to me and say that he would "kill a "White" mutha f**kah, but not a brotha".. That's toxic tribalism right there.. It is getting crazy..

[Joshydavid25]

@WilliamPamer446 I don't put "White" people as a monolith, because "White" is not a tribe.. Some are bad, and others not so much.. Also, I'm "Black".. Lol..

[WilliamPamer446]

@Joshydavid25 I didn't mean we was a monolith I was just making a point
And that's cool that ur black

I'm more trying to have a libertarian vs whatever u are conversation. A friendly political discourse. But we can talk about race to

[WilliamPamer446]

I was trying to find common ground with the anti trump guy

[WilliamPamer446]

There's a lot of controlled opposition going on and I think he's distracted

[Miah04]

@Joshydavid25 yup, and those same obviously racists, claim black people can't be racist. Like okay dude😂

My favorite is when you tell someone they know that was wrong, or agree with a white person in an argument they accuse us of being desperate for white approval. Like naw bruh, this dude happened to be right, and you wrong.

like you said racism exists, but the media and social media has completely made it look out of control. In 22 years i can name 4 times irl something racist happened to me, anything else, i gotten along with people from different races with no issues.

[WilliamPamer446]

I didn't mean to be like those people I was just tryna make a point. I'm a libertarian whose against authoritarian social justice

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 yeah, I mean, not really my lane to speak on internal affairs of the Black community, in fact one of my big gripes would be that white people always want to pop in and try to frame that whole discussion.

And bigger than that, my overall gripe with American society is that the standard seems based around what white people want, just like “as long as white people are ok with it, then it’s all good, doesn’t matter if anyone else doesn’t like it”, or the opposite “whoawhoawhoa, we don’t care what you want…. the white people people have spoken and the answer is NO.” Or racial acceptance seems conditional based on how well they feel someone has assimilated to white American cultural standards.

Also, not for nothing, there’s more than just us in this country, there are Latinos, Asians, Arabs, South Asians, etc, etc, we get caught up in Black vs white, which lately I only see pop up in the usual “supposition of criminality” type shit. l🙄 I feel like Indians and Asians get a pass a lot of the time because they’re perceived as docile and “productive” professionally, which is another thing I’m not really into basing human value off of.

But Latinos take a beating too, and especially with all the ugly immigration rhetoric these days. People ain’t checking green cards out here, you know? They just see a skin tone and hear Spanish and go crazy. My lady is Puerto Rican, so I take it a little personally. And most Latinos where I’m at ARE Puerto Rican…. and I endlessly hear white folks suggest they’re here illegally, we should “build a wall”, and it’s just like “They literally just move here like it’s from a different state, they’re already an American protectorate, you fucking moron”🤦‍♂️😂

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 So I’d hate to see what it’s like when the Latinos are possibly from foreign countries. I always wondered why Mexicans got so much guff, we hardly have any around here, but when the internet started up (dating myself lmao), and I started hearing all kinds of anti-Mexican talk in AOL chat rooms, and I was just like “wtf is this?” But it was people from Texas or California or something, just saying dumb shit.

Obviously anyone can be racist, but just due to societal structure, it’s not 1-for-1 and hits different coming from white people. I also kind of understand, I mean, ultimately white people “started it”😂 And if there’s somewhere on Earth where a white minority in population and/or societal power is facing historical and structural societal disadvantage from a not-white majority, or some other combination of two racial or ethnic groups, my feelings apply there too. I think the history of colonization doesn’t lend itself to that sort of situation today with white folks, so just a hypothetical, but I’m saying I’m not just rooting against white people for the sake of doing it, haha

Although…. just being a fan of hip hop since I was a kid, way before Eminem made it acceptable, and I had other white folks giving me shit all day, eyyyyyyday, calling me the “W-word”😭😂, just generally giving me a hard time, and calling me a lot of the negative shit they wanted to say about black folks to me, but more freely, and I’ve honestly just been like “fuck white people until they prove otherwise” ever since, haha. Just let me listen to music without accusing me of trying to “be Black”, and stop having/sharing with me your idiotic negative stereotypes that you want to say to actual Black people but you’re afraid of getting rightly called out as an asshole/getting beaten like you stole something lmao.

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 I’ve just seen too much behind the scenes to write things off as not that big of a deal. Real happy to hear your direct experience isn’t too bad, but I’m just saying it still lurks in the shadows, and as a white dude who kicks it with some black folks, what other white people say and do around me varies WILDLY depending on if said black folks are around or not. It’s not like back in the day style racism, but it’s just dumb, unnecessary shit that makes me wonder how it would affect them if they were a hiring manager and had an equally qualified white applicant and not-white applicant. Some of it may very well never manifest itself in some way that has that direct of an effect, but I just think too many people walking around with an attitude like that has a negative effect on society in general. For sure goes for everyone, but I feel like if white people cleaned up their act, the other counter-racism wouldn’t be necessary.

Anyway, I hear ya, I mean, again, not really my place to opine, but if your angle is more of an anti-victim-mentality thing, I respect that all day, and for sure would endorse self-reliance and grit and perseverance in anyone. If you wake up in the morning resigned to “I’ll never make it because the deck is stacked against me”, you already failed to make it.

[WhiteSteve]

@Joshydavid25 And the more pages we flip on the calendar, I do believe we get closer to not needing to worry about it as much. Even some of what you’ve told me here encourages me. I take your personal experience/perspective seriously, I’m just saying I also have a behind-the-scenes perspective that’s just not what I want to be hearing from white folks in 2024. Sometimes it’s subtle and implied, like someone says they can’t live in the city because they can’t afford private/parochial school and couldn’t possibly send their kid to a city public school. Sometimes they spell it out, sometimes it’s just kind of a wink and a nudge, but I know EXACTLY what —or I should say WHO— they’re avoiding. So it’s nowhere near dead.

I don’t know, we’ll fix this shit, and then the Mongolian-Americans will start being racist towards the Nepalese-Americans, and it’ll just be Racism Whack-a-Mole, because humans are stupid idiots lmfao. But at least we’d be on the sidelines for that one😂

[handsomelad70]

"White Steve," perhaps I should have called myself "Black Brady!!!"

[WhiteSteve]

@handsomelad70 it’s got a nice ring to it!😝

[WilliamPamer446]

That's a Democrat authoritarian thing not a libertarian thing. I'm not authoritarian on racial issues and I don't speak for black people

[Miah04]

@WhiteSteve being white should not disqualify anyone from a topic. That is a way to use racism to control to silent white people, do not let anyone do that to you.
Sometimes people not directly involved in something has a clearer view, sometimes they don't.
We are all Americans discussing an American topic, and the labels democrats have proven to be very obessed with lately, are just that labels.

I been quiet on things because i just enjoy life, but it's very clear as of late, we are being divided in so many way, from race, gender, and sexuality, and so many things.
We need to stop going i can't discuss something because I'm this.
If you American you are just as impacted in this topic as anyone else. Many white people felt like that, and stayed quiet, look where that went.
We felt quiet about transgenders in women sports and we stayed quiet, and look how that went.
The truth is it isn't about anything other than the rich controlling everything so they can stay rich.

I'm not a victim of any white person, nor is anyone i met, under the age of 75.

[WilliamPamer446]

I agree as a libertarian I Believe in ultimate freethinking. And. Expression

[WhiteSteve]

@Miah04 (Editor’s note: buckle up, it’s long…. SURPRISE!😝) I hear ya. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, I wish we could have more open discussion without people getting too up-in-arms. My thing with white people in the conversation isn’t that we can’t possibly add perspective, it’s that like 90-some percent (liberals included, when you get to a personal level), seem to approach things very defensively. It’s all “whoawhoawhoa…it wasn’t ME!” And it’s like “obviously, dummy, but it affects the course of generations of families, the building of wealth and businesses…not everyone got to do that. Shit has only been kinda ok since like 1980. And only kinda ok, relative to like Jim Crow. It evolves and becomes less brazen, but it’s still out there. And you should know that.” So I’m just not about pretending it doesn’t exist, and shying away from a full account of where we’ve all come from historically.

Like they have states that want to teach kids slavery wasn’t so bad, Black folks learned skills….. WHAT? Just teach everything, the whole story, with honesty. You only spend like a week on it every year or two in school anyway, they act like there’s an AP Hatred For The White Devil class😂 You can tell kids George Washington did great things but still be able to have a nuanced presentation of him and also note that he was a slave owner. I mean, that’s just the reality of history. The idea that this is designed to or will lead to kids hating America is silly.

And while I agree that there’s a lot of divisive stuff going on, like I was saying to our pal JoshyD, behind the scenes, in homogenous company, I have other white people saying ignorant shit all the time. It’s never well thought out, it’s always stupid. But it’s pretty constant.

[WhiteSteve]

@Miah04 I’m SO happy your life experience hasn’t led you into too much dumb shit from white folks, but I simultaneously wish and don’t wish you could hear some of the things a lot of these guys say, around people they don’t even know all that well. And it’s the same ones who act all cool to others when it’s mixed company, if you’re not white you’ll never know about it.

I don’t know, I just have such a hard time perceiving the world and forgetting that that’s regularly something I experience, and how it might sneakily manifest itself harmfully to others. And I just overall hate that it seems to be the general mood of so many people. And not a one of them would dare say this stuff in front of Black folks, or whatever group they’re badmouthing, so it’s all on the sly unless you’re thought to be safe to say it to. And it just seems to dominate their entire mentalities. Anything going wrong, blame it on whatever group. But it’s never, ever our own fault, no way🙄

And if you speak out against it, you’re ostracized, or at very least they’ll call you soft or suggest that maybe you prefer the company of men🙄🤦‍♂️ In straight white male circles, it’s VERY uncool to be kind and empathetic, unless it’s some kind of hardo-kindness or hardo-empathy…fallen soldiers, firefighters, cops, that sort of thing.

[WhiteSteve]

@Miah04 Anyway, Democrats and labels…not wrong. But I’m not sure people weren’t labeling each other in life already, so maybe it’s just leaning into that and trying capitalize politically. But in the end, it just seems so many right wingers prove themselves to be bigoted, and have policies that would be directly harmful to this group or that group, that it’s hard not to take the right’s agenda at an attempt at oppression. That may not even mean some big dramatic all-caps “OPPRESSION”, but even just a “please continue to keep people I don’t like for no valid reason at all out of my eyesight and earshot.” So it’s really, REALLY hard to side with the right about just about anything socially these days.

One thing I’m curious about: you mentioned trans women in sports, you seem to be against it. I’d need more info, but my gut tells me competition with biological women might not work out. And I’m fine with arriving at that conclusion. What bothers me is that (respectfully) SO FEW people truly care about women’s sports. Hear me out, I’m not trying to be rude😅😂 But men aren’t really into watching women play sports, more often than not, and not all women are athletes themselves or particularly big fans of sports in general, I’d guess at a larger rate than men. I have never heard another man talk in any seriousness about the WNBA, it’s always a punchline. They’ll watch attractive women play just to perv out, lmao, but I’ve mostly just heard Britney Griner dick jokes or negative comments about the physical build of the Williams sisters in tennis. The most popular female athlete among men is probably Livvy Dunne, and I don’t think any of them even know if she’s good at gymnastics or not, lmao.

I wish it were different, but it’s not. You have your sports-dads, or occasional guys who coach women’s sports, but by and large, men care about the NFL, the NBA, to lesser degrees the NHL, MLB, PGA, the UFC, but women’s sports leagues are just not what guys are watching.

[WhiteSteve]

@Miah04 I say all that to say this, if you haven’t misunderstood me and blocked me before getting this far😂: all of a sudden, out of nowhere, people, many of them men, all became obsessed with preserving the integrity of women’s sports. Forgive my cynicism, but it suuuuurrrrrreeeeee seems like a lot of people just don’t like trans people on some visceral level, and they know they can’t just attack them for that alone, so this is the spotlighted issue they try to overblow and use as a more innocent looking cudgel to attack trans people in general and paint them as some kind of societal problem, and suggesting that they’re a threat to children. I don’t think that does trans people any favors, who are already walking uphill.

I’m indifferent to transsexualism, I have plenty of questions and things I don’t understand, but part of having freedom is allowing others to do what they like so long as they aren’t willfully harming anyone, whether I “get it” or like it, or I don’t. It’s such a minuscule portion of the population, I’ve met single-digit trans people, lifetime. So I find it hard to believe they’re all of a sudden overwhelming women’s sports.

I said I was curious like twelve paragraphs ago and still haven’t delivered😂…. I’m curious what your experience is with trans-women in sports, you’re a great person to ask, you’d know better than me. Did you have to compete against any? How many encounters with trans-women athletes have you personally had in your travels? Are you running into them coaching AAU? Just trying to get a sense of the prevalence. All I ever hear about is that one swimmer, and she’s not even that good, I think she’s ranked like 49th or something lmao. Like the Olympics are coming up and I haven’t heard a word about any trans-women, US or otherwise, not about making a team, not even about a rejection of them from consideration.

[WhiteSteve]

@Miah04 I think I’m with you in that it’d likely be too much of an advantage, my issue is that when I hear the conversation, it’s never a well-intended “let’s figure out where the trans women should play”, and maybe have an uncomfortable conversation with some concessions made by trans athletes, but ultimately be like “respectfully, you’ll need to continue competing with biological men”, or if there’s actually so many of them to warrant the level of freak-out, you should have enough for a whole separate trans division for competition. Bottom line: be equally respectful of both biological women and trans-women, and don’t just approach it like “kEeP tHeSe FrEaKs OfF tHe GiRlS’ tEaMs!!!”

I think that my overall message, with this stuff, and just any type of “social justice” issue (as much as I don’t really like the term), is that all that’s really be asked is that people be respected and be able to live their lives like everyone else does, without being judged or treated as some kind of abnormal person, or having to hide their true selves to get along in society.

If you made it this far, good talk, it was cool hearing your perspective👊 Can’t believe you didn’t mute this question like a week ago, how many words have been written on this post😂😂😂

[Miah04]

@WhiteSteve this is why i like you. You smart. See i agree. Teach history accurately, and yes jim crow laws is the bigger issue than slavery which was an atrocity. It kept black people as slaves without calling us slaves. Which gave white people a head start establishing themselves. But i also see racism exists. But it is not that bad, most people in life go along and just want to enjoy life.

But the advantage white people got out of it, was they had access to better education, better middle class jobs.

And teaching history accurately should also come with colonization, we are so uneducated that only white people are called colonizers. But we ignore the fact that African moors went to Sicily raped the women, when the men went off to war, the same African moors, conquered sicily ruled it under hundreds of years, and but when this is discussed it's good.
The history is not taught properly in ways to benefit both sides of this argument.

I didn't mute because nobody has been disrespectful. And bring valid points.

[WilliamPamer446]

Lol white sreve let it go bro, you keep simping for this girl. She's a teacher brainwashed by Marxist commie rhetoric. But she trying individual thinking pattern and now she taking out her. She frustrated by all the nonsense out here. I'm autistic and I've seen better nuanced than everyone here 😂

This was a goofy dramatic Convo and I was able to keep my cool

I don't wanna debate with people if they don't wanna see past propaganda when they claim there independant thinkers

[WilliamPamer446]

There's a reason I stopped commenting on this thread. No point. I only debate when it's productive or stimulating

[Joshydavid25]

@miah04 IKR there's plenty of racist "Black" fools around.. LOL.. They think anything just short of acting like "Black" people are just chosen group is coonery.. Lmao..

[Joshydavid25]

TBH, I think we all need to get our act together.. But, at the end of the day, I have almost never feared that a "White" man might shoot, or Rob me just for the sake of it. Unfortunately "White" people aren't the only ones with an aversion towards "Black" people. Many others don't see us in the highest light either.. And when that happens it's not the problem of the other groups, but the problem of the disliked group.. If you don't interact with another group much often and in real life the few times haven't been pleasant, naturally you'll caution around people of that group.. Pattern recognition.. And that's bad for the good people of the group they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.. What happened in history wasn't the fault of the common "White" person, but the fault of the government..

[WilliamPamer446]

Joshy true but white men do cancel u and push forward evil Marxist ideology. And white men commit mass shootings and white kids shoot up school more.

[Joshydavid25]

As for history and the Democrats.. They've only made things worse for the "Black Community".. With the lies, policies, and rage baiting.. A lot of "Black" people are getting tired of it and hence why you see a lot going towards voting for Trump.. I agree with you that Politicians are gonna be Politicians.. Meaning opportunist for themselves, and their careers rather than for the people..

[WilliamPamer446]

Ezsclty Joshy. Democrats have made things worse for black community and continue to virtue signal. I don't know why Mae seem to continue defending them.

[Joshydavid25]

@WilliamPamer446 Yeah, the Democrats have never been a good party.. They started off as racist, and Slave owners only to shift their plans to fit the changing political climate to get more votes..

[WilliamPamer446]

Now there controlled by Marxist elite shadow and Fascist Globalist and don't really mean Democracy anymore.

[WilliamPamer446]

I don't trust them at all. The party not all the people

[WhiteSteve]

@miah04 haha, thanks, I majored in history and showed up to a couple classes😝

Totally agree on Jim Crow and subsequent generational impacts.

Also correct about the Moors. I think what happens though, is that IN AMERICA we focus on American history. If we were Italian we might learn more about the Moors, and less about European colonizers in North America and elsewhere. I’d also maybe argue that the world today is much more shaped by the effects of European colonization, probably due in part to happening the latest in history and having the most advanced knowledge and technology to succeed in colonization efforts. Also, I don’t think I learned about the Moors until I got into my major in college, other than a teacher very briefly touching on early-European/North African groups (Moors, Saxons, etc), and they were just kind of broadly sold to us as barbarians of a primitive time. I think it was 200 or 300 level history courses in college that dove into that sort of thing at all deeply.

[WhiteSteve]

@Miah04 I don’t think we even introduce slavery til like fourth grade Social Studies, at least that’s probably when I first started learning about the Civil War and all that. So there’s really like an eight year window to teach kids history, and most of it will be centered on America. Like what do you really know about Canada or Mexico? And they’re right next door, haha. Mexico is hot with cowboys in big hats, Canada is cold with either English or French people either lumberjacking or fur trapping and wearing raccoon hats with the tail hanging off the back, lmao. Like it was sort of discussed as it relates to the development of America, but I think I really only had a couple of classes about world history at all before graduating high school. And again, the Moors were just a vocabulary word, haha, it was just “they came from here, and at one point, they moved up to here…” We didn’t hear about rape in Rome. Honestly, the only place to get that kind of info without a college loan is from US-slavery-apologists like Candice Owens or Prager U videos😂, and it’s all done to arrive at “don’t hate America, other people did it too!”, so you don’t get the greatest account of it there, either.

Humans are funny because, really, only true scholars of whatever subject ACTUALLY know stuff, everyone else is parroting it to sound smart, or they come up with their own versions of history, more informed by wishful thinking and a desired outcome than based in actual facts. So we have to be careful about information we take in, is the point, and always be aware when we or the folks we’re being influenced by are NOT experts in that topic.

If you have any additional thoughts, let ‘em rip, but I’m probably gonna tap out of the discussion from here, a week and a half later😂😂😂 Good talk, though🤝

[sawno]

No, terrible policies besides I don't think it would do the country any good to have anyone but trump given everything that happened over the last past months. The country needs healing especially on the right wing after all the perceived corruption. So one Trump term can restore the balance, yes the left will loose their minds again for 4 years but then its back to normal after that. Having anyone but Trump win could cause serious permanent imbalance in the believability of the entire system.

[Anonymous]

Definitely not voting for Trump or Biden so a third party or leaving it blank are both options.

[sawno]

None of those are viable to win so at that point you could write whoever you truly think would do the best job no matter if they are running or not.

[7Phoenix7]

I agree with @Wiredone I'm voting for mickey

[Wiredone]

Now you're talking. Maybe we can go to all the cemeteries and get the dead people to vote for mickey too

[7Phoenix7]

I'm down lol

[Wiredone]

Good deal. Who else is with us

[Miah04]

@Wiredone I'm in

[Wiredone]

Yay. 😆

[WindAtMyBack]

Fuck no! He's bad enough on his own. But when he made his VP pick I knew he was completely over the edge.

I won't be voting. There is no one worth voting for. We haven't had a decent presidential candidate in over 20 years. I don't expect to like everything about a candidate, but I don't want total garbage either, which is all we've had for some time now. And it's getting worse.

I'm tired of voting for total garbage just because their opponent is even worse garbage.

[Joshydavid25]

I love his stance and research against Big Pharma, the dude knows what he is talking about, but as for his politics, he's just another Democrat.. I would much rather vote for the business man who had us headed towards a great economy.. Besides I only voted once and that was in the 2020 Election and after that sham never again.. I went full Libertarian.. Okay almost full.. Not quite.

[handsomelad70]

Cornel West were I eligible to vote in your election. Baby Bobby is a rightist conspiracy kookburger who's trying to ride his much more worthy ancestors to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.("Ride?" At lest they don't call him "Cowboy." Incidentally, his cousin, John F. Kennedy, Jr., then 38, perished in that plane crash near his Martha's Vineyard home July 16,1999 a quarter-century ago tomorrow.)

[abc3643]

Probably not but I won't rule it out.

I am not voting for Trump who should be put up against the wall and shot.

[Wiredone]

I'm voting for mickey mouse. He'll probably do a better job than the candidates who are running

[WilliamPamer446]

Lol no not anymore not after he sold out to Israel and the Green New Scam

Not trump either he did the same thing with Israel and police state

[MisterWack]

No. Brainworms aren’t on the menu.

I’m voting President Biden.

[Surely]

If the Democrats would somehow get Trump out of the race. Then I would vote for anyone but a senile old man. With shitty diapers and a bad memory!

[smahala1991]

No, Like WhiteSteve said at this point I'd vote anyone over Trump or Biden, but I don't think RFK Jr has the appeal power

[llorando]

Yes, he has a long history of successfully fighting government and corporate corruption and he's the strongest candidate for defeat Trump.

[Anonymous]

he's probably not even gonna get more than 10% of the vote. he wasn't even allowed on the same debate stage. he's a terrible candidate too. it baffles me that anyone gives him the time of day.

anyways no im not lol.

[RedInnocent69]

10% is charitable. I’m thinking less than 5%

[Opinion Owner]

@RedInnocent69 yes i was being generous. he will be completely forgotten about come December. just watch

[Twalli]

Not at all. I like a lot of gus positions, but vaccines are a major issue for me. We need them.

[dustybiker2]

It will be an... interesting election.

[Miah04]

Yup.

[KostasKouvalis]

With the Kennedy Curse, I'm not taking any chances

[LiamS95]

RFzk Jr would be even worse then Biden

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Nope. No more American voting for me.

[ChinaGrove]

Biden is trying to get him off the ballot.

[msc545]

Another crazy person? Hell no.

[Pterodon]

Why it would be a wasted vote

[Saggitariusdiva]

Wtf is that

[dustybiker2]

A Kennedy family member. He's suspected in helping the republicans, but trying to get democrat votes.

[Syntosi]

Yeah he was dug up and convinced to run by those who wanted to interfere with Biden winning the election. However he is so bad at it that his entire family basically denounced him and he also has such little grasp of politics that he does not understand that he was only being promoted to sabotage the Democrats. As a result he has done his best to promote his actual beliefs (hard core libertarian, but the stupid kind) which it turns out actually attracts more Trump voters than Democrats so now he is ruining politics for everyone and everyone hates him.

Truly one of the weirdest plans to ever backfire in American politics.

[dustybiker2]

lol It really is.

[Saggitariusdiva]

@Syntosi and @dustybiker2 I'm not American...😅
So I don't know who all those people are

[dustybiker2]

Ah, that's okay. You'll learn eventually.

[Syntosi]

Its worth looking up on youtube for a speech or interview of RFK JR. Not because he is a good speaker or to make fun of his intellect but rather just to point out that his voice is destroyed due to illness and he still believes he can win in what is basically a popularity contest. He is not a serious person.

[laly520]

I won't vote

[JonCobretti]

Nope

[noohair]

No..

[RedInnocent69]

Nope.

[zombiewoof]

No way

[eagle1951]

hell yeah