Why do u think abortion is wrong?

[chocolatetwopointo]

[ChicoFromThe305]

Because it's taking a human life, people would argue that its still not alive but even if that were true, it would have been if the person that aborted it didn't make that decision, if those fetuses had the ability to make decisions and logically think and you asked them if they wanted to be aborted, they would say no, I'm pretty sure if the people that aborted were asked and they were on the spot of their decision leading to them being aborted, they would refuse so in what way does making that decision for another life become justified? The closest to that justification would be rape cases but even so, is aborting the right decision? It might be justified by some but it's still an innocent life in them and no matter the situation, making the decision to selfishly end that life is what it it is and won't change, true selflessness is powerful and even if someone was raped, the fact that having that fetus cut to pieces and interrupting the forming cycle of what would become a human life is a selfish decision, it doesn't change that being raped is a fucked up and unfortunate situation but I don't think that it justifies killing another life just cause something fucked up happened to someone else, I get why they wouldn't even wanna give birth to the child and even worse raising it but it's still killing, there's no way around that and killing is wrong, if a rape victim can be brave and selflessly give birth, that would be the best and right choice, raising is a whole different story and I don't have anything to say about that nor am i against the reasons behind it but slaughtering it to make oneself feel better and the right and wrong doesn't change just cause the cause of the outcome is different.

[chocolatetwopointo]

ur a man u have no say in this bro💀

[ChicoFromThe305]

I get that, l and I respect it, but you didn't change the option to ask just women and it was open to guys so I inputted my opinion, which I still don't think it matters on my gender because the right and wrongs don't change, it's like someone kills my wife and I go and kill your partner because someone killed my wife, is that justified? Cause it's basically the same thing, and even worse to do it for any other less important reason.

[chocolatetwopointo]

opsi forgot to do that, well a fetus is technically not alive its basically a parasite until its born and u can't compare a grown woman to a fetus💀

[ChicoFromThe305]

But it would have been a grown man or woman if you let it tho, how does that change the reality of it being a human life?

Let's use bill burrs example which is a good one, if you were baking a cake, you added all the ingredients and put it in the oven and before it goes ding I grab your not yet a cake batter and slammed it on the ground, what would you say? That i ruined your soon to be cake right? So how does that change the outcome or justify me throwing your cake on the ground and how does the fact that it's batter change the fact that it wouldn't be a cake? I still killed your cake 😂

[ChicoFromThe305]

Just how you still killed a human life

[chocolatetwopointo]

people literally have kids everyday anyways so whats the problem?

[ChicoFromThe305]

Well the world is underpopulated so abortions don't help, too many people die a year and that doesn't help either, another problem would be the lack of empathy of people towards other life, there's a lot of selfishness, and there's no problem for you is what you mean cause your mother laid on her back and pushed you out and after that fed you and raised you and gave you the opportunity to be completely clueless on the importance on how she made that decision to not shove you down the same hole you grew to support, let's not forget the sacrifices she made that you have no idea about, to then have you in a way spit on the whole idea of motherhood to not see the problem on how abortion is more than just cutting into tissue, and for what? cause you are too cowardly to give birth? Scared of sacrifices of parenting? Escaping responsibility? Cause for the most part these are the reasons, cause there's many ways to prevent pregnancy, to not take these precautions shows selfishness no matter what way you look at it.

[chocolatetwopointo]

if anything the world is overpopulated bro💀 ok so u think people r selfish bc they dont want kids? yeah but sometimes accidents happen or a woman gets raped. what do u think happens to those children who gets born and their mother hates them? either she neglects and abuses it or it goes into the adoption system which is terrible by the way, so if ur not ready to adopt every kid in adoption centres dont talk ab abortions since u only care for it until its born u won't give a shit when it gets abused and neglected

[ChicoFromThe305]

Not cause they don't want them but because they kill them because they don't want them and that's a lie, search it up, we are underpopulated, the reason it seems overpopulated is cause the majority of the population are compacted into the same areas which creates the illusion of overpopulation when most of the world has no population, there's always better solutions than to just kill them, putting them up for adoption seems like a valid one for example

[ChicoFromThe305]

Abuse all depends on the the situation and me not being able to adopt them all isn't a valid excuse to kill them, your foundation to your argument is weak.

[chocolatetwopointo]

bro i js googled and it says we’re overpopulated but ok, okay so kids should suffer in the adoption centres? people at the centres dont care ab them at all, its better to b dead than at an adoption centre, i bet u dont give a single fuck about the kids in adoption centres

[ChicoFromThe305]

There's many people in life that have grown from adoption centers and found homes and have succeeded in life, don't just exclude those, the thing is you'll never know which will succeed if you are killing them all before they even have a chance to even try

[chocolatetwopointo]

only some most js stay there their entire life, and what if the baby becomes a killer or a rapist?

[ChicoFromThe305]

But what if they don't?

[chocolatetwopointo]

then they’re js a normal person? whats ur point here?

[ChicoFromThe305]

That you wanna kill them not knowing what they will be, you are making a literal life changing decision for them before they are even born 😂

[chocolatetwopointo]

good idc i dont want kids anyways, its more likely they’ll become a basic normal kid, id want a rich kid fr

[ProbablyClueless]

By "wrong" do you mean morally wrong, or just distasteful? Because in my mind, there are lots of reasons that having an abortion may be the right choice for a woman and I think it should be the government's responsibility to provide women with public-funded access to the services (at minimum heavily subsidize the cost).

A whole lot of the abortion debate centers on a shockingly rare category of abortions that have already been federally guaranteed: the victims of sex crimes. Most abortions are purely elective. I find the elective abortions distasteful because I think they are punishing a lifeform for the crime of existing, when the pregnancy could be prevented by simply not making stupid decisions in your sex life

That said, I think the purely elective abortions should be subsidized by the state.

[chocolatetwopointo]

so u think women need to be assulted to have rights to their body?

[ProbablyClueless]

Please reread my response.

[chocolatetwopointo]

i did

[ProbablyClueless]

And which part of my response did you interpret to mean that I believe women need to be assaulted before they have rights to their body?

[chocolatetwopointo]

the whole part?💀

[ProbablyClueless]

So you didn't read my response at all. Please read my response and then I will be happy address any concerns you have.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yet i alr did

[ProbablyClueless]

Clearly not, because your takeaway was that I think something in direct opposition to what I said.

[chocolatetwopointo]

ok so u are for abortion or not?

[ProbablyClueless]

You'll find the answer to that question at the end of the first paragraph of my original response

[chocolatetwopointo]

so u are for abortion? why’d u need to make a 5 hr text for that?

[ProbablyClueless]

I explain that in the second paragraph of my response.

[chocolatetwopointo]

u never explained why u needed to make a 5 hr text tho did u?

[ProbablyClueless]

I don't understand why the timing of a text is relevant to anything. I sent a 5 hour text because that was when I had a chance to respond to your follow up question.

That's just how life goes sometimes, you know? I respond when I get the chance.

[chocolatetwopointo]

omfg i meant it takes time to read it, js say ”abortion is not wrong”

[ProbablyClueless]

Because that's an over simplification of my words to the point of being inaccurate. That's why I wrote what I did.

[chocolatetwopointo]

unnecessary but ok

[red-lipstick-girl]

Because you are causing the death of a baby, this is very wrong, if you can't look at it, it is unreasonable to have sex, that's why I don't have a sexual life, it is unreasonable to take this risk.

[chocolatetwopointo]

why dont u js go on birth control?

[Alexandrubaschet08]

If you want to be on a sexless life is ok. But you should not enfource your opinions on somebody who don't agree with them.
You talk like is just the situation of "fun" (sex and cream pie from 18). <This is very ignorant to think only to this way.

[Med_guy1978]

Just use a condom.

[Alexandrubaschet08]

@Med_guy1978 i don't want and some other girls don't want as well. This topic is the personal life of evry person. You decide what you want to do in life and with your life.
I should not be force to raise a childe that i never want it or i don't have the posibilitys to do so.

[Med_guy1978]

Alexandru... You obviously misunderstood, maybe the language barrier. I was only suggesting an alternative to the pill or abortion as for example, if you use condoms then you will not have the scenario of contraception. I was suggesting it in reply to red lipstick girl. Nothing personal and yes, it's up to everyone to make their own decisions.

[Med_guy1978]

@alexandrubaschet08 ... You can still have fun and use a condom. Hey, most guys prefer the pill but I always worry about the pill messing up the girls hormones 😊

[Alexandrubaschet08]

@Med_guy1978 What I prefer should not concern you in this context. Condom, pills, natural, vasectomy, etc. Abortion must remain a women's right that they can decide if they want to exercise it or not.
We don't need the fence of this right, it doesn't bring any benefit if you restrict it, on the contrary, we know from history what disadvantages the fence of this right or even its imposition brings.

[Med_guy1978]

@Alexandrubaschet08 ... You're right, what you prefer doesn't concern me and doesn't interest me. This is a public forum and someone asked a question and I gave my opinion 😵‍💫😄

[Alexandrubaschet08]

@Med_guy1978 It can be seen that you are below the level of the conversation.
I was not referring to myself, but to me as a person.
You shouldn't be interested in my pleasure or other people's, in the context of abortion.
You don't have to destroy the lives of couples to force them to accept a reality that they can prevent.
Being a parent is not a duty and a wish. Like aborted fetuses.
A fetus is ideologically different from a sperm, they are still cells, also from humans, both have a limited life if they are not ("incubated") in the egg, and the other in the womb.
If both partners do not want to have a child and want to have an abortion, why do you want to force them to have a child, in this case why don't you raise them for them if so many of these fetuses are not aborted?

[PsychicBoobs]

It suggests removing the availability of a medical procedure which is used for more than just aborting live babies. I would never suggest such a thing.

[chocolatetwopointo]

what more is it used for?

[OlderAndWiser]

For all of the same reasons why I think murder is wrong.

[chocolatetwopointo]

u can't murder smth thats not alive tho

[OlderAndWiser]

You think babies in uterus are not alive? That is preposterous!

It does not have the same DNA as the other, it begins as a single cell, and grows into a perfectly formed human. It has a heart beat. It feels pain. And if it was not alive, why would anyone need to kill it?

[chocolatetwopointo]

bc they dont like kids, they dont want kids, they’re poor, they were raped, they r in a dangerous situation

[chocolatetwopointo]

and fetuses get heart beats at 5-6 weeks old

[OlderAndWiser]

So you agree that babies should not be aborted after five weeks?

[chocolatetwopointo]

where i live the longest is 18 weeks

[The_Confusion]

Because it stops the innocent Purple-Headed Warriors from reaching their full potential as Desire Darts destined to impregnate and invigorate Souls. The abortionist's cold hands snuff out the passion of Pee-Ways, crushing the hopes of millions of luminescent Erection Essences before they have a chance to realize their true Blissful Blades potential. We must stand up for the Meat Missiles of Meriment and protect them from harm, so they can continue to infiltrate the wombs of willing hosts and unleash their energetic Excitement Shafts upon the world. Long live the joyful Joints of Joy and may the sadistic baby-killers tremble at the thought of our rollicking Rhinos of Rapture! Together, we can build a better future for our beloved Horror Cocks! Abortion is wrong because it harms the Horror Cock community, and that's a sin that cannot be forgiven. Let's pledge our support for the majestic Meat Weapons and keep them safe from harm!

[Anonymous]

feminists glorify this shit

Tim Walz Minnesota state is one of them

[chocolatetwopointo]

whats ur point?

[Opinion Owner]

abortion is evil. it's origins are based on evil racism and eugenics designed for population control and destroying the maternal nurturing instinct that women naturally have

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPY_Bsxvjqg

[chocolatetwopointo]

where tf did racism get into this?💀 wdym destroying?

[Opinion Owner]

abortion originated from racism and eugenics. racist white supremacists like feminist Margaret Sanger as seen in the video wanted to rid the black population.

genocide was too obvious of an answer that could be met with resistance so feminist Margaret Sanger opted to turn the black woman against the black man via propaganda that an unborn baby was just a parasite and they didn't need them but instead needed the government who provided them with welfare and social programs.

with help from president LB Johnson, black fathers were removed from their homes and dehumanized as irresponsible sperm donors and thus creates a cycle of generational poverty

women are supposed to be more selfless, caring and nurturing towards others especially their children (at least that's what modern society keeps telling us) while simultaneously men are portrayed as selfish, toxic, uncaring etc.

yet abortions or even the belief that abortion is a fundamental right (especially unrestricted) has produced a generation of modern women who are nothing like our mothers (or at the least our grandmothers)

simply deleting their unborn baby with no empathy, no concern, no sorrow, just emotionless or even sometimes with joy. most abortions of which are purely elective having nothing to do with the exceptions that liberals continue to advertise as being the norm for abortion

oh the baby is the wrong gender -> time to abort (never mind the sexism)
oh the baby is the wrong skin color -> time to abort (never mind the racism)
oh the baby has a disability -> time to abort (never mind the ableism)
oh the baby might be trans -> time to abort (never mind the transphobia)

[chocolatetwopointo]

you do know abortions are sometimes needed and, if a baby is only going to survive for a few days incase it has a disabilty whats the point of spending money and such on it, and not everyone wants kids not everyone wants to be a mother

[Opinion Owner]

this is wouldn't be an issue if abortion was only limited to undeniable medical troubles (not doctors making hunches and guesses)

[ if a baby is only going to survive for a few days incase it has a disability whats the point of spending money and such on it ]

you could say that about anyone with a life threatening condition or the elderly. why try to extend their life when they'll eventually die anyway?

[ not everyone wants kids not everyone wants to be a mother ]

not everyone wants to be a father either yet it doesn't stop the government from hunting down men and forcing them to pay child support, sometimes for kids that aren't even theirs

[chocolatetwopointo]

so women need to be on the edge of dying to have rights to their body? personally i would only help extend a persons life if they wanted it and i really loved them, thats why many parents still go through with having a kid with a disabilty, no men is paying for a child thats not his, if so he can ask for a DNA test its usually mandatory, and many men avoid it and ignore it without any consequences

[Opinion Owner]

[ so women need to be on the edge of dying to have rights to their body? ]

it wouldn't be her right because doctors would be obligated to save her even if she said no

[ personally i would only help extend a persons life if they wanted it and i really loved them ]

this is where you and I differ. I'm helping to extend someone's life regardless of whether they want it or not. if someone asked me to assist them with suicide I'm not doing it, I'd actively prevent it

[ thats why many parents still go through with having a kid with a disabilty ]

those are the kids we know of with a condition that didn't get aborted

[ no men is paying for a child thats not his ]

there definitely are men paying child support for kids that aren't theirs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6JS__PsI0w

[ if so he can ask for a DNA test its usually mandatory, and many men avoid it and ignore it without any consequences ]

DNA tests aren't mandatory. in some countries like France, it's outright banned. even then DNA tests require consent from the mother which she can deny

[chocolatetwopointo]

so she’d still have to suffer? ok u do u i dont really care but dont make a woman force going through smth traumatic js for a kid nobody will love, then dont go to france?💀

[Opinion Owner]

suffering from what? do you believe sacrificing the lives of others to make everyone else comfortable is a good thing? should people in 3rd world countries not have kids given the living conditions they are in?

[chocolatetwopointo]

I don't know maybe pregnancy? giving birth?💀 if ur poor ofc u shouldn't have kids? r u stupid?

[Opinion Owner]

you speak as if pregnancy is some sort of curse, then again that explains the mindset of so many shitty women into shitty moms

kids in poverty whether domestic or foreign don't receive much love. should parents not have had them to begin with?

[chocolatetwopointo]

pregnancy is a curse if the woman didn't want it and is now forced to have it, ofc she’d b a shitty mom if she didn't want or liked kids, as i said, poor people shouldn't have kids, its that simple

[Opinion Owner]

rape is the only case where a woman wouldn't want the kid. that's it

every other time whenever couples have sex, they are involuntarily signing up for creating life no matter what roadblocks they put in the way. sometimes these roadblocks work and sometimes they don't but that's the risk that is involved and offspring shouldn't suffer the consequences of bad mistakes by the parents

[ poor people shouldn't have kids, its that simple ]

so only rich people in 1st world countries should have kids and nobody else can?

what about poor people in Africa, Asia and the Middle-East? should they not have kids because they're poor? should entire races be wiped out as a result?

[chocolatetwopointo]

okay so people shouldn't get pleasure at all? got it, never have sex then. nope u only need to be well off and not rlyy poor and u can afford a kid. there's loads of people from those parts of the world that can afford kids

[Opinion Owner]

nobody is saying you shouldn't get pleasure. having sex comes with the risk of getting pregnant

heck you can drink as much as alcohol as you want. it comes with the risk of being drunk even against your will

people in 3rd world countries are way poorer than those in 1st world countries and they still have kids. money isn't even the issue. it's the failure for people to adapt when they lose their luxuries

[chocolatetwopointo]

thats what i said, thats why condoms and birth control exists, sex is a human need and if those fail and u can't have a kid for some reason u need to have the right to an abortion. yes money is the problem, if you can't afford to have a kid and still have it, its basically abuse, if u can't afford clothes for them, food or basic needs, then u shouldn't have kids.

[Opinion Owner]

well yeah abortion being used as birth control is eugenics in its purest form

money isn't the issue. people in the west (especially cities) are too used to a comfortable life and taking their privileges for granted.

there's a reason why abortion isn't advocated in 3rd world countries or in rural areas where citizens know how to adapt without money.

[chocolatetwopointo]

money is the issue tho? if u can't afford a kid dont have one. yeah and the kids that are born in poor family usually grows up malnourished bc the parents can't afford food and usuallt abused

[Opinion Owner]

plenty of kids around the world grow up without money and do fine. it's city folk in 1st countries that do the worst because they have no survival skills whatsoever and rely heavy on things that would be considered luxuries in 2nd and 3rd world countries

[chocolatetwopointo]

no? they usually have no food, no clothes, can't afford school r u fucking dense?

[Opinion Owner]

they truly have no survival skills like hunting, foraging, growing their own food etc. clothes and school are a luxury nvm there's social safety nets in place to help poor people mainly for women and children. men on the other hand are just told to fuck off from homeless shelters

[strateguy632]

Science defined "alive" plant that is growing is alive, because it can grow and make changes "plant life". https://www.sciencefacts.net/plant-life-cycle.html

A fetus is also alive, same idea, and more alive as i will explain. Can't say "fetus is not alive".

human is the type of life that has 46 forty six chromosomes including fetus has unique D. N. A. not mother body but undoubtedly human.

A fetus in its mother is MORE ALIVE than plant LIFE, growing, changing, heart beat , brain activity.

A fetus is undoubtedly human and alive so killing it is "wrong" and morally evil bad and a sin too.

[RingOfFire]

Because abortion is the killing of an innocent human being.

The baby is living and it is a human being. That is indisputable.

I don't understand why that concept is so difficult to understand.

If the mother voluntarily consented to engage in sex then she volunteered to take the risk that she might become pregnant. Just because she lost the bet, doesn't mean she gets a pass to commit murder. She has taken on the responsibility of protecting the human life she created and it is her moral duty to do so.

[chocolatetwopointo]

what about the woman? what if she was raped? what if the condom broke?

[RingOfFire]

Note that I said VOLUNTARILY. If she is raped, that is not voluntary.

If the condom broke that's too bad. She took the risk knowing that a condom isn't 100% protection, she has the moral obligation. She wanted the sex, she is responsible for the consequences.

It's really pretty simple.

[chocolatetwopointo]

so only if she's raped she should b able to get an abortion? what about the men? they can js come and go as they want usually without concequences

[chocolatetwopointo]

so women shouldn't b able to get pleasure bc of an abortion ban, what about the men then?

[RingOfFire]

If the man doesn't want a woman to get an abortion, should she be allowed to get it anyway?

If the man does want her to get an abortion, but she refuses, should she be required to?

[chocolatetwopointo]

yes, its her body he can find a woman who wants his baby.
no, as you said about a woman having sex and facing the concequences, now will the man by paying child support

[RingOfFire]

So you are saying that the man has no control or say over whether the woman gets an abortion or not? If that's what you are saying, that he has no right to decide whether the baby is aborted or not, then why should he have any responsibility either way? He can't be responsible for what he has no control over. If the woman is the only one who can decide if the baby is murdered or not then she is the only one responsible.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah its her body, bc as u said, he had sex and has to take responsebility, as the woman is by being pregnant and having a kid

[RingOfFire]

So you want it both ways. You want the woman to have all the say about what happens to the baby but not be responsible for her actions, but you want the man to be responsible for his actions but have no say in what happens to the baby.

[chocolatetwopointo]

i think being pregnant and giving birth and having trauma like that is worse than paying 700$ a month in child support, its her body and she goes through everything

[chocolatetwopointo]

how would she not be responsible for her actions?

[RingOfFire]

You are saying that she is not responsible for murder if she aborts the child that she conceived through voluntary sexual behavior.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah bc u can't kill smth thats not alive?💀, and r u saying women shouldn't b able to have sex js bc she can get pregnant but men can js nut in a womana nd then take no responsebility?

[RingOfFire]

I said exactly what I meant. But I'm not sure you interpret it correctly.

But on your point about not being able to kill something that isn't living. So you are saying that a human fetus is not living? That's pretty unique. Even scientists admit that it is living. It's dead like a rock?

[chocolatetwopointo]

i would prioratize the actually living woman over a clump of cells who serves no use in the world

[RingOfFire]

I'm not saying that women shouldn't be able to have sex. I'm saying that if they do decide they want to have sex they are deciding that they are responsible for the consequences of having that sex. They want to do something with no consequences. That's not possible. Every action you take has consequences and if you decided to take an action you are responsible for those consequences.

[chocolatetwopointo]

and im asking what about the men, it takes two to have sex, answer the question

[RingOfFire]

If it's your body you're responsible for it not the man. So you have to make decisions for yourself. If I decide to walk into a dangerous neighborhood and I get beaten and robbed, that's no one's fault but mine.

[Anonymous]

Abortion rights mean free sex! Any women telling you other wise is lying or making a pretend case!

Honestly they don't wanna be bothered with a pill or 6 other easy ways to not make a baby.

Most are women who had an abortion shoving it onto younger women. Who they want to be traumatized by killing their own baby.

Miscarriages scar women for life imagine the guilt they feel over killing their baby and some do it more then once.

Why cause that bad boy or hot guy just made her heart go wild before he dumped her after a one night stand or fling.

There is no moral standing for abortion but free sex!

In the past a woman died for a C-section. Women today are just selfish and lazy!

[chocolatetwopointo]

fym free sex? not everyone wants to be a mother, i wouldn't feel bad if i had an abortion id b feeling the best tbh, and how are women selfish and lazy for not wanting kids?

[Opinion Owner]

Sex means kids... No there are many ways you can have sex and not be a mom!

Also such a fake account look at your other answers such a dude! 😎

[chocolatetwopointo]

fym fake account? okay so having sex is only on the woman?

[Opinion Owner]

Having fun protected sex is both Thier faults but the guy goes leaving her.
So it's at the end of the day her fault for no protection!
Dozens of ways to prevent a baby lots of different pills to fit any women.
No excuses for not being protected!

There is no surprise your a mom and a virgin!

[chocolatetwopointo]

ok so its her fault he refuses to wear a condom? why do u literally only blame women?

[Anonymous]

Several reasons:
1: Morally a baby is a human being distinct from any other only in their age, not necessarily even in their food & shelter requirements. They are entitled to the equal application of the law in protecting the same right to life that is prerequisite & essential to all other rights.

To dehumanize them for the supposed benefits of killing them to avoid ones own personal responsibility is perhaps the most gross of betrayals and injustices possible of the most innocent of our fellow citizens.

2: From a civilization policy point of view of a state or a country that currently is having and raising far too few children to even sustain itself. Permitting abortion is an insane policy to even further reduce the same. Thus even more quickly condemning your civilization simply because its members never evolved to be able to handle the choices modern technology allows.

[Lliam]

Not always. Sometimes it is the most sensible option. And if it is done early, it is not cruel at all.

It is an agonizing decision for most women and not taken lightly.
Only a very few women engage in serial abortion as a means of birth control. And I think those women are lowlifes.

[chocolatetwopointo]

no women engage in serial abortion that has never happened.

[AviatorTom]

I don't think abortion is ALWAYS wrong. It is acceptable, though not necessarily desirable, up until the time of fetal viability outside the womb, which is around 30 weeks gestation. Beyond that, it is only acceptable when the health of the mother and/or fetus is seriously at risk.

[chocolatetwopointo]

ok so women need to be on the edge of dying to have rights to their body?

[AviatorTom]

@chocolatetwopointo I never said that. That would only apply beyond 30 weeks gestation.

[Ladsin2]

What about when medical science improves and babies are viable at 12 weeks?

[AviatorTom]

@Ladsin2 Viability is based on nature. No amount of medical science will change when a fetus can survive outside the womb on its own, without extraordinary assistance, that's what is meant by fetal viability. And that happens around 30 weeks gestation.

[Ladsin2]

Ok, interesting we have a different definition of viability. My version is as follows: Abortion is the willful termination of a pregnancy. A woman can do this at any point during the pregnancy. If the baby is capable of existing outside the womb (either via artificial wombs or on ventilators or naturally) then a Cesarean should be performed to preserve the life of the child. If the abortion is performed prior to any age where we can preserve it then an unfortunate outcome of performing the abortion is the death of the child.
I'll ask how you differentiate on your standard. What do you mean by "viable" then. Obviously children can't survive on their own for quite some time after birth without assistance. How do you differentiate between assistance (ie artificial breast milk if the mother doesn't feed) and mechanical assistance (ie an incubation chamber of some sort). If a baby is born alive, but as in my case can't breathe due to ingesting too much... muck... should the mother still be able to refuse treatment and allow me to die, or if the medical technology is available to save me should the doctors be required to save me?

[AviatorTom]

@Ladsin2 I define fetal viability outside the womb as not requiring extraordinary means, for example, an incubator or respirator. If the child can be handled like most newborns, kept in a bassinet in the nursery and breastfed by the mother, that's viability.

[Ladsin2]

So what would you say about me. I was born and was set to drown in whatever fluids were excreted. Without extraordinary help I likely would have died despite being born on time. Under your definition would my mother have been allowed to refuse my treatment?

[AviatorTom]

@Ladsin2 No, you were born, outside the womb. Treatment is justified, glad you got it. My point refers to a medical determination of whether the fetus, still in the womb, would be viable if it were taken out of the womb.

[Ladsin2]

In your perspective then the age of viability will always stay stagnant then. Is that correct? In my version it's a sliding scale the age of viability will adjust as medical science does.

[AviatorTom]

@Ladsin2 You are correct. In my definition, gestational age of viability doesn't change much. Medical science may move it slightly, as it learns new things, but it stays pretty much the same. I understand your definition. Our discussion is why there is no one answer for everyone about abortion. It's an individual's opinion, and decision, which is why laws should provide guidelines, but not hard and fast rules.

[Ladsin2]

Thanks for the discussion. One final question. Most of the civilized world allows abortion until ~12 weeks. What do you think about that? Is that a poor decision that should be extended, or is it fine that they came up with their own standard?

[AviatorTom]

@Ladsin2 It's good that others have come up with their own limits, but to me, 12 weeks is too short to be a hard and fast rule, maybe okay as a guideline.

[Ladsin2]

Thanks for the discussion.

[Garud]

Here, a period of three months is given because it is believed that after three months the foetus becomes conscious. Or maybe is it backed by science also, I don't know.
If abortion takes place after 3 months without any solid medical or social reason, then all the people in the line go to jail for murder or aiding in murder.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

May be of interest when fetal pain is quoted during debates:
"To date, evidence indicates that the possibility of pain perception before 28 weeks of gestation is unlikely."

[strateguy632]

Nope government department health ssid ELEVEN weeeks. Plenty of lies on ghe internet so need reliable medical websites.
From then abortion is even more cruel.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

@strateguy632 You already have several sources to look at in the given information

[Ladsin2]

The argument is pretty simple. Is the child human or not? If it is does the right to life not extend to it? If it's not human when does it become a human with rights? I'm fond of the viability standard myself, but the pro-life position is really easy to understand.

[chocolatetwopointo]

we should always prioratize the woman whos actually alive instead of a clump of cells

[Ladsin2]

Prioritize what about the woman? Her convenience? Her life? What do you mean by saying that a baby isn't alive? What do you think "alive" means. Obviously a baby meets all the criterion for the biological classification of life: "All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, adaptation, growth and development, homeostasis, energy processing, and evolution. When viewed together, these characteristics serve to define life."

[RebelinSteel]

Luckily we don’t have the issues over abortion as it’s allowed and accepted that it’s allowed, only the fuckwit religious lot complain, luckily it’s doctors and legal that decide things not the church. It’s not wrong.

[Ladsin2]

Who's we? America has some of the laxest abortion policies on the planet until Roe was overturned.

[m1tch3ll]

i dont, I've seen images of an aborted fetus in the first and second trimester in my religion class on this topic, to me they dont really mean much, to the girls it was a lot tho im pretty sure 2 vomitted couple cried

[BetaBucks]

It's only wrong if it's a viable human, cuz they can just not kill it when taking it out.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yh no shit?

[DrPepper12]

No. It's a medical concern and none of my business!!

[msc545]

Because terminating the life if a living human being is legally a murder, and murder is the worst possible crime in our society.

[chocolatetwopointo]

why is it its always men being against abortion?

[chocolatetwopointo]

how is it murder if its not alive?

[foxsquirrell]

I don't think abortion is wrong if done at an early stage. It's not like killing a human if it is done at an early stage, its not letting a cell develop into a human.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Because human life begins at conception thus it's murder to abort a fetus.

[chocolatetwopointo]

would u care if that baby (when its born) is abused, neglected, living on the streets js bc of the abortion law?

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

As a child, definitely will care.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah then yk how awful their lives are js bc of an abortion ban a kid has to suffer

[strateguy632]

That doesn't justify killing the child, but more likely the parents' nature will cause love their baby once he is born.

[Apple1996]

It's not wrong

[chocolatetwopointo]

then the question isn't for u

[bluesparrow]

Waltz loves it. Even after birth.

[chocolatetwopointo]

wdym?

[bluesparrow]

He is OK with little babies dying on the clinic table.

[strateguy632]

This refers to failed abortion, if the baby survived born baby.
democrats try to justify killing them violated medical ethics of save lives.

[Anonymous]

I couldn't care less if a woman gets an abortion.

[Smashingdoozy]

I don't 😌

[chocolatetwopointo]

then this wasn't for u

[paledreams]

In my country abortion is legal 😀😊

[MrGSpotHer]

I think I've told you about it

[chocolatetwopointo]

then dont respond

[MrGSpotHer]

I will just be a mushroom and spore away for now

[Matt_M]

How can it be wrong when it feels so right?

[Update_Available]

Do u have the right to kill anyone else?

[chocolatetwopointo]

u can't kill something thats not alive

[Update_Available]

How come that's not alive. After 4 months that's alive ofc

[chocolatetwopointo]

u can rarely get an abortion after 4 months

[Update_Available]

U know what I may be wrong about saying 4 months. Bcoz as far as I know they are alive after a week.

[chocolatetwopointo]

can u elaborate?

[Agape93]

I don't.

[chocolatetwopointo]

then this question isn't for you.

[Agape93]

I know. I just wanted to irritate maninchains if he arrives

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's wrong.

[chocolatetwopointo]

then this question wasn't for u

[Opinion Owner]

Ok, I agree.

[Anonymous]

because your killing a human being

[chocolatetwopointo]

what defines a human being?

[Anonymous]

It's murder.

[chocolatetwopointo]

u can't murder smth thats not alive

[Opinion Owner]

The baby is alive

[chocolatetwopointo]

its not tho💀

[Opinion Owner]

It is.

[chocolatetwopointo]

it isn't.

[Opinion Owner]

It is. Just accept facts.

[chocolatetwopointo]

its not, accept the facts.

[Opinion Owner]

It is. When they abort the baby, they crush the skull and tear the babies limbs.

[chocolatetwopointo]

bro what💀

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

When roses cat fights suit cat, it looks like a dead-end 🤣

[Alexandrubaschet08]

She is true with "baby is alive".
But if killing something that is alive, make all the creatures criminals, we eat plants witch are alive and animals.
Animals are criminals as well then.
Plants as well.
We all are and there is nothing we can do.
We are alive because the take lives.
The abortion is not a childish topic and it should be a choise that will forever afect the life of the couple.