The whole pro life/pro choice debate has been going on for years now. This is an issue I'm pretty split on and agree with both sides however I lean pro choice. What do you think? Should a woman after getting pregnant be able to have the baby removed?
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This is stupidly close but I noticed that the most people that said pro life are men and the most people that said pro choice are women and that almost all the people voted said pro life or pro choice which means most have a strong opinion on the matter. Interesting stats
The British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.
A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.
We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)
Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.
This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.
Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.
Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.
You're older but not wiser. Ofcourse who the hell do you think is gonna risk her life? It's not baby's body when there are just clusters of incomplete cells. A woman has to go through that trauma, terrible pain and life long diseases. Her life is ruined. So you're okay about it EVEN if she gets raped but she's obligated to carry that life threatening thing inside her? Very WISE.
Women are not invisible so stop acting ignorant. Because of OUR body you managed to exist healthy. A man only provides seeds but a woman does 10 times more work to actually give it a proper life.
@Azura_88 Then maybe you should have responsible sex and stop using abortion as your form of birth control. No one has said that a woman can't have an abortion if her life is threatened if the baby is carried to term. Rape is a maybe because anyone can cry rape if she doesn't want a baby.
@Azura_88 All the people who are for abortion have already been born. Their parents gave them a chance at life. Why won't they pay it forward? You could give it up for adoption or to the father's family who would probably like to raise it. Do you think there is ANY reason a woman should not have an abortion?
@Daniela1982 rape is a SERIOUS reason to abort because she is not ready physically, mentally and emotionally so why to punish her for the wrongdoing of other man? How do we know that she's faking being raped? It's so sad that all women are expected to carry a baby even if they don't want it at all. It's a huge issue.
@Daniela1982 also I'm a virgin for this reason because I am scared of pregnancy and STDs. But I am concerned for those who are being forced to keep a baby.
@Chthou95 definitely but then the guy runs away and pretends like he doesn't know the girl. So why should a girl be left to suffer? If girls don't have sex then they get raped... what's the solution?
@Azura_88 Then I will repeat: If you don't want a baby have responsible sex or have your tubes tied. Women who use abortion as their birth control are low life's in my opinion. I have seen in the news a lot lately where women are killing their children. That is despicable!
@Azura_88 I'm not following? If you are a virgin and afraid of getting pregnant then you should abstain from sex. No girl ever got pregnant who kept her legs together.
@Daniela1982 killing living children is definitely a crime. But a few weeks cluster of cells aren't a complete human especially if they can ruin a life of a rape victim. Plus if a guy runs then he should also be made to pay. Why is it fair for him to abandon his child and the mother? Just because he wasn't ready? Then he should also have abstained from sex.
@Azura_88 80-90% of abortions are out of convenience, rape is between 2-7% maybe 10% max stop using rape as the norm, plus, most pro-lifes like my self understand when a woman wants an abortion bc she was raped, thats different, and a minority
Out of curiosity. Let's say you are driving and you accidentally caused a crash that you honestly created and admitted to yourself being your fault. Next thing you know you are giving blood to a random victim. Doctors says you are here to keep this random person alive until they can survive on there own.
Is that legal in anyway shape or form. You are legally responsible of driving but are you responsible of the recovery? I would say no personally in that position.
So that's the body autonomy question. if that's the case is having sex illegal going back to abortions.
@NaultD In your scenario, you would need to be a match for the blood type, but the hospital would not use blood "on tap" instead of blood that has been processed and preserved in accordance with blood bank protocols. And there are many other people who could and would donate blood to keep that person alive. In the abortion scenario, you created a life, you are the only person who can keep that person alive for many months, and you knew all of that when you spread your legs and had sex.
@Daniela1982 if you can't read other things other like a mature adult I've mentioned then don't comment and mind your own business. Plus I was never talking to you in the first place. You only answer according to what you want to see. You're ignoring what happens with those women who are forced to get pregnant. My foot for your ignorance. Go produce millions of kids if it makes you happy. Goodbye.
It's a choice-let the mother choose. I for one support abortion I will never let a child ruin my life and I won't have a child in poverty. I will never let a child suffer the way I did. Many children that are born into extremely poor family end up being adopted or in homes. Many things could happen in that adopted home are children's shelters. The child could be raped, molested, forced to join bad companies because they believe that no one cares about them considering that their parents gave them away. And we know that some adopted parents do not treat their adopted kids good 'why'. That same child could be the next serial killer, gunman, Robber, the next big threat to society. The majority of those children are suicidal. It is quite harsh when you believe that u have no one thus a teen may turn to other persons that are looking for vulnerable persons like them to use-then teenage pregnancy happens and poverty continues. If you know you can't take care of a child please be responsible, do it for the child, and never force a woman to carry a child u don't know her condition. Children are wonderful but sometimes they don't always fit in. And don't let anybody tell you that the child could be the next great thing u urself can be the next great thing and when you have you are ready to have your child he/she can be the next greatest thing. Think with ur head, not with ur emotions.
I believe women should have the choice to have an abortion. It's their body and THEIR choice. By making it illegal essentially increases backdoor abortions, so either way abortions are going to happen no matter what. It's honestly a terrible thing to go through, but with the lack of sex education and accessible forms of birth control what else could you expect? The adoption system is fucked, the cost of giving birth is insane, and now in certain states you can't have an abortion past the 6 week mark (which almost when most women find out they're pregnant). In the instance of having a relationship, I think it's fair to also acknowledge the other's opinion. However I don't think it's right to go through a pregnancy if you're raped or have a high risk pregnancy. I also think it's pretty interesting that the majority of the men were against abortion. To each their own I guess.
@AFellowWeeb the problem is most anti abortionists in power push a narrative that condoms are ineffective even today. So that isn't good enough. They activity sabotage any birth control measures entirely.
So pro choice is indicative of birth control options (including abortions) and sex education availability for everyone to create the least abortions possible.
That's been the goal. With measured responses. Most important sex education, next available birth control, last resort abortion rights. If all else fails you do need a failsafe. You can be pro choice and choose to support education and birth control options and think of abortions as a failing of those 2 steps needing more support.
@NaultD there is no way that you can still get pregnant while on the pill and with a condom, simply there isn't, dont come to me with some bs excuses. If you're on the pill and still get pregnant its bc you miss some days or simply dont take it seriously, specially if you still use condom on top of that. The harsh reality is that you go to parties, get drunk, than let some random guy go raw on you bc ''it was the heat of the moment'', thats like the equivalent of a drug addict stealing grocery store's money, then saying that he needed it to buy food. Nt.
What do I think? I think it comes down to what we define the fetus as. Is it a clumb of cells? Then abortion is no big deal. Do we consider it a baby? Then it's plain murder and most people aren't exactly pro-murder.
Thus the main question is - how do we define life. And this is where we get some serious issues and why I am pro-life. All those arguments being made by pro-choicers how the fetus is not a life are simply logical fallacies. Here are a few common ones:
- "The fetus doesn't feel pain" - Thus by that logic we are allowed to harm people that are in a state that do not feel pain? And if there is someone with a genetical defect of having no pain sensors, that person is not a human being?
- "The fetus has no conscious" - Same issue as above. What about people in a coma? Can we just all take them off life support now?
- "My body my choice" - Doesn't matter if we assume the fetus is a human baby. Because then the right to live for the fetus trumps the right to bodily autonomy of the mother.
- "What about raped women?" - Less than 5% of women having abortions are pregnant as the result of rape. Thus this argument is irrelevant to the other 95% of abortions and the argument could easily be about this specific case making abortions valid.
- "Banning abortion puts women at risk by forcing them to use illegal abortionists" and "the right to abortion is vital for individual women to achieve their full potential" - How about being an adult about having sex - and simply do not have sex when you don't want children? It's called being a responsible human being. Women aren't prevented from abstaining and/or using proper contraception methods.
- "The fetus is a parasite" - This is probably the dumbest argument, because it simply is not by all biological measures of what constitutes a parasite.
- "Abortion is a necessary right for gender equality" - This is almost as dumb as the parasite one. Considering the argument is that only women get to decide about abortion - it is the exact opposite of gender EQUALITY. Its an inequality (rightfully so or not is a different story).
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I don't agree with either of those arguments. If anything, they just disprove the pro-choice point of view to me since I consider them all invalid and when in doubt I rather not kill millions of babies instead of betting on "hey, its not a human life because of these questionable arguments".
I honestly have mixed views on it, but I'd say that I lean more towards pro-life, although I'm not an expert on the science, I just think that pro-life people tend to have better scientific arguments from what I've seen.
Now, I am sure there are pro-life people out there who do it to control people's lives or in the name of religion (I don't believe in religion myself by the way), but I also think there's pro-choice people out there...
who use it as an excuse to be sloppy when it comes to having sex, lazy when it comes to birth control, a tool of convenience to bail out of responsibility and act as if it's okay, simply because it's legal and act as if pulling out the victim card will help prove their point and make them right, because feelings over facts.
Honestly, I even think that SOME pro-choice people actually think abortion is murder, but either try to convince themselves that it's not, due to it's convenience or simply because they hate men and want to get 'one over them', I mean if women can bail out of parenthood, why should men have to pay for a child they didn't want.
There's definitely hypocrites among the pro-choice people, because some of them have no problem with circumcising a baby boy, I mean if 'no uterus no opinion', then why not 'no penis no opinion' ? - At least be consistent with your values and whether on it 'looks better' is personal preference, but like with the abortion thing, I'm not an expert on whether or not circumcision is 'more hygienic'
ASSUMING abortion is murder, then there's no way in hell I support it, I mean I don't have or want kids myself, but why would I agree with murdering an innocent one?
At the same time though, I think the world could do with less people, so I guess some will be happy with less people in the world, so it does have some pros, but then again, couldn't you say the same thing about a mass shooter killing 100 innocent people, because at least there's no chance of those dead people doing something horrible later on in life, because they won't have one?
The biggest irony of the debate is that it has been shown repeatedly that proper sex ed and legal abortion leads to less abortions. So even the people who are against abortions should want it to remain legal and accessible as there are fewer abortions when it is legalized, so they are winning too. They don't want fewer abortions, they want to control women, and refuse them rights.
I don't like killing people. The question is, at what point does someone become a person? I don't seek a religious answer but a scientific one. I define a person as one who has the ability to think and feel. If you are brain dead you are no longer a person. You are a corpse whose organs are being kept viable with artificial means. At the other end you are not yet a person if you can't think or feel. it has been proven scientifically that third trimester babies can think and feel. It has also been proven that first trimester fetuses cannot. So I would ban third trimester abortions. I would make firs trimester abortions a legal right. So this leaves 2nd trimester. The earliest surviving premature baby was from week 21 which is within the 2nd trimester. At 21 weeks this baby could feel and appeared to be aware which implies thinking. Scientists have not yet come to any sort of agreement as to exactly when an unborn baby begins to exhibit these two traits. So until they pin point it better I would also ban 2nd trimester abortions. When we have better science I would be inclined to change that.
I dont know how to answer this one.. The way i see it, its her body her choice... On that same token, if she chooses to keep it but the father does not want it, it should be his wallet his choice. Meaning If women have abortion, Which i support fully, Men should have the same right to financial abortion, Which means the father is in no way responsible to her and is not entitled to child support if she chooses to keep it against his wishes. Both genders should have at least some kind of abortion.
Also, Why do people choose to ask this question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
When a simple search on this site will yield you thousands of the same question with the same responses, with the same poles.. Pick an original question for gods sake.
Im pro choice. But with that comes a lot of nuance. No more should we accept the bs narrative that a man has no say in the choice. If he wants to be involved still there has to be communication. He is half responsible for that fetus developing so his half of the decision matters. On the flip side, if she chooses not to get an abortion but he says, "i didn't agree to this, i wanted you and thought you were getting an abortion" then he is not financially obligated to pay alimony or child support.
There is a limit to getting one as hell. If the fetus cannot survive outside the womb (say with premature births) then the mother should be allowed to consider the abortion option. If not, then she has no ability to choose. Unless the unborn child in the late stage directly affects the life of the mother, it should not be a permissible act. In cases of incest, women should not be allowed to keep the child, by law it must be aborted.
These are the opinions of myself and myself alone.
Pro choice. Abortions have been on the decline since roe vs wade. With increased of sex education and avaliable birth control (including avaliable abortions.)
So any individual that hates abortions as a core belief should be pro choice seeing how it produces the best results of less abortions. The reality is its not about abortions but questioning pre marriage sex and protecting the virgin marriage.
So with that in mind you should know, the Bible belt in modern day America, parents forces children as young as 10 to marry their rapist as old as 70, to protect the sanctuary of marriage in gods name and grace. That's what anti abortionists are fighting for.
If that wasn't crazy enough in Wyoming state Sen. Anthony Bouchard is running for a public office being a rapist of this nature right now. even after the 14 year old pregnant bride (he was 18 at the time) committed suicide at 20. Being called a hero because they didn't have an abortion.
I'm against abortion, both the legal and illegal kind. There is no right side in this, only wrong sides. It's a situation that should never come up, but it does anyway. You have to deal with reality, not wishful thinking. Women are going to get pregnant. They are going to get abortions. That's been true throughout human history.
Reality is that abortion is going to happen. I think it's HORRID. I think the illegal kind is even more horrid than the legal kind. I'll leave it at that.
I can understand what you mean generally speaking I´m pro life but I think there should exceptions where abortion should be possible like for incest or rape. These situations where I think no one can make women getting pregnant after traumatic moments. The problem of when and how human life start will never be totally solved. I think life starts when there is a heart beating. If one doesn´t want to risk pregnancy there are many way to prevent it. I think abortion isn´t the solution to help women with pregnancy. I rather think it should be forbidden to dismiss women who are pregnant.
I feel a pregnancy should be able to be terminated under certain circumstances:
Pregnancy from Rape Pregnancy from child abuse Incest Zero chance of the baby surviving Zero chance of the mother surviving
However under no circumstances should "its inconvenient" be a reason to kill a child.
I do have a problem with the "pro-life" movement being confused with being "anti-abortion".
For someone to declare they are "pro-life" they need to be prepared to assist the child's wellbeing after birth, not only until its ex-utero, then moralistically judge the girl who was pregnant for getting that way.
If you know it's been going on for years here why do people keep asking this question? I usually reply: all the people who are for abortion have already been born. Their parents gave them a chance at life. Why won't they pay it forward?
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Condoms and birth control exists. If you are too fucking stupid to use it, then it's not the fault of the baby.
Abortion is only really an option if we're talking risks to the individual. 99% of the time we're talking preference of the individual. Hence the reason it's been debated for so long.
You have people who choose to be gay, trans and furry. Therefore, US law cannot disagree whether they should be able to choose to be child free.
im generally against abortion and dont think id ever be able to do it unless like raped. however i voted i'm for abortion, cause people will do it regardless so no use in restricting it, its less risky to do it that way and there are cases when abortion is ok like rape or issues with a child. I do not consider embrio a child but it's not like its nothing.
Killing the baby is not the answer. I understand there reasons for it and i support pro choice because it is the woman's right to choose. God did give her free will. But there are other options to not keeping the baby and other people who can not even conceive or are sterile who would be willing to take care of the baby.
I'm against abortion, not on political or legal grounds, but on moral grounds. Abortion is murder. "Thou shalt not kill." (Exodus 20:13). It is the mecca of irresponsible people who should not be having sex in the first place, but lead a dissolute life and would escape its consequences.
Pro choice all the way, it's her body and her choice alone. Also: if it can't survive without a host it's a parasite not a person, legalizing abortion and giving proper sex ed drops abortion rates, and the heartbeat law is bullshit. Thank you
@not_a_twinkie How did you get a 62%mho with that kind of shit? Is that what you think all of us are, parasites? Well damn, that means all the illegals being let into the country are parasites too. You also couldn't have survived without your parents so add yourself to that list.
Bold of you to assume I wanted to be born, or want to have kids for that matter, we're overpopulated as it is. Also that is literally what a parasite is, an organism that lives on or in a host organism and gets its food from or at the expense of its host, it will also die without a host. A foetus like it or not is a parasite, thankfully some of us grow out of that stage. I never said people were parasites and there is zero correlation between what I said and what you did, you're grasping at straws here.
Have you gotten yourself permanently sterilised yet. Or do you need to make statement with getting abortions first. Sick person. If life is that bad just kys
Unfortunately according to the man's law I can't get sterilized unless I have birthed two children, thankfully it's very difficult for me to conceive, on that matter I would never actually get an abortion myself but will not actively choose to have children. And apparently I'm the sick one and yet you are the 21 year old hurling highschool insults and telling a 19 year old to kill themselves. Pathetic really.
Abortion is murder. They take the baby fetus out piece by piece with a clamp, meaning this child can feel their body being ripped apart in the process, if it is 20 weeks or older.
And men wouldn’t give one single gram of fuck what others thought about them for getting an abortion or supporting it. Maybe women should be the same way.
@MzAsh Exactly. Worse even, it might become like a "badge of honor", as in "how many scrapes have you had? Haha. That bitch thought I would marry her".
The fewer unwilling/ill-equipped parents the better. Anti-abortionists just want to see people punished for having sex they don't agree with, it comes to light every single time I talk to them.
In what way? On the topic of abortion as a whole, or in a specific instance whether or not a girl gets one? Guys absolutely have a right to an opinion on whether abortion is moral or not, like what this Ask was about. In the case of a specific instance where a guy has gotten a girl pregnant, he has the right to perhaps encourage his partner to get an abortion, but can't do anything beyond that. I do however support financial abortion.
For me it depends on the situation like if a girl's gotten pregnant from being raped anybody having a problem with her getting an abortion, bit of a prick but if it's an adult woman who has "made a mistake" you should have the baby, you dont need to keep it like put it up for adoption or something but you shouldn't take away it's chance
Not my body.. not my choice.. its a decision a women makes between her and her doctor.. I don't want some fat ass politician making medical decisions for me. Stay out of my medical decisions..
i don’t want anyone who’s religious beliefs go contrary to mine to make legal decisions that affect my life. period. In the mean time, any decisions i make with my doctor are no ones business out side of my own!
pro choice. if it doesn’t affect you then why should you care? if you don’t like it, don’t get one for yourself but don’t take that right away from others.
''if it doesn’t affect you then why should you care?'' Bc i care about human life '' if you don’t like it, don’t get one for yourself '' If you dont wanna get pregnant, dont go raw
@AFellowWeeb then you should also consider celibacy before marriage. Talk about banning sex before marriage. When women tell that they believe in sex after marriage, then you men DISLIKE IT. If women close their legs then you will RAPE HER because of your sexual frustrations. Guys are the ones who are more into physical relationships. You care about human life by using women as a scapegoat?
@Azura_88 ''I'm concerned about those who are RAPED'' the 10%? Yes, im also concerned for those, and for the women that want the kid but if they have them, they could die in the process ( themselves or the baby ), the problem is, these cases are the 10-20% that are always used to promote abortion. by the way, do you know which type of women suffers more seeing abortions? The ones that can't have kids.
@Daniela1982 People like you who care about abortions are brainwashed by politicians who use the abortion topic to divide people apart while screwing the country over. You are a freaking sheep who only care about stupid fake issues not the real actual issues
@Daniela1982 I care that our Healthcare system is the worst among developed nations and our roads are failing apart. Who freakinq cares if a woman gets an abortion
Well don't worry. Biden is going to raise taxes and rake in $55 Trillion over 10 years. So I think you got worse to worry about than anything else. That puts a family of 4 making $60,000 a year with $2000 more in taxes a year. They are probably already struggling even with Biden's bullshit promise that anyone making under $400,000 a year would be paying no rise in taxes.
Just like with vaccines, masks or anything else your body your choice. No one should be able to force anybody to do anything with their body that they don't want to.
Abortion is murder. The baby didn't chose to be there, just bc you wanted to party and have unprotected sex. And yes, there is already the graphs out there, 80-90% of abortions are just out of convenience. So you're basically supporting murder.
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Anonymous
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All those guys who voted against abortion shall be forced to get a uterus planted inside them and carry the baby for 9 months. They just hate women having freedom. They're controlling bastards.
I chose two that were very different to try to appeal to both sides, one pro-life and the other pro-choice. If that's biased to you then what else did you want?
Why ask questions like this if it doesn’t change a thing?
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I am neither pro-choice or pro-life. I fall under eugenicist mandatory abortion for genetic defects including mental and physical defects and banned abortions in other cases.
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