Was the death of Jordan Neely a lynching?

[msc545]

A lynching is defined as :

A lynching is a form of extrajudicial violence, typically a killing, carried out by a mob or an individual without legal authority. It is often motivated by racial, ethnic, or social animosities and aims to punish or intimidate individuals or groups.

Updates

1 y

I don't mind a good discussion, but this is my question. If you call me names here or curse at me, I am going to delete your shit and block you. I am not required to put up with verbal abuse because we disagree and I won't.

[Sevenpointfive]

i'm really glad you asked this question. i know very little about the subject so i will only tell you what i think of what i think i've heard.

a guy tried to be a hero? he did a move that he possibly didn't know how to execute and ended up executing a person. no one stepped in. so, that is what i've heard barebones so far. now i will actually read about jordan.

ok. yes. the marine killed him. he might have been trying to make him pass out, but that would have taken a minute executed correctly.

he killed him. i think this could be called a lynching

[lightbulb27]

No not by definition.


If someone had trained in the cleegy kr aocialw svcs on the train hed probably be alive trying to figure out life. As it was a military guy trained to control and kill reacted to the verbal threat. I think hed do same for any race. And he disnt intentionally kill him although he made a mistake not letting him go.


Should have had jail time and nyc needs to learn lessons and become better compassionately from it else was a waste.

[msc545]

I posted the definition at the beginning of this post. How is that inconsistent with what happened?

[WowGIrl4ever]

I'd say yes technically but, when I think of lynching I think of multiple attackers.

[msc545]

I thought that too but then I read the definition and... changed my mind.

[Yabbut]

Do you have any evidence that race had anything to do with it?

[msc545]

Do you have evidence that it didn't?

[Yabbut]

One can't have evidence of nothing. So, I'm asking, is there evidence that it did. I'm not aware of any, but you seem convinced that it was racially motivated, so you must know something that I don't.

[msc545]

I suspect you have nothing of value to say.

[msc545]

To answer your question, I have no direct evidence but history and tradition are strong in cases like these.

[Anonymous]

In 2021, Neely socked a 67-year-old woman as she exited the Bowery station in the East Village in Lower Manhattan. The woman sustained a broken nose, a fractured orbital bone, and "bruising, swelling and substantial pain to the back of her head" in the Nov. 12 attack, according to a criminal complaint. Court records show that as an adult Neely regularly lashed out at strangers on the subway and on the street.

From January 2020 to August 2021, he was arrested for public lewdness after pulling down his pants and exposing himself to a female stranger, misdemeanor assault for hitting a woman in the face, and criminal contempt for violating a restraining order. All three cases were dismissed as part of his Feb. 9 plea deal.

In June 2019, Neely attacked Filemon Castillo Baltazar, 68, on the platform of the W. 4th St. Station in Greenwich Village, according to the court papers. "Out of nowhere, he punched me in the face," the victim told the New York Daily News. He said he'd seen Neely before looking for food in the trash bins.

One month prior, he hit a man so hard in the face that he broke his nose on the platform of the Broadway-Lafayette station – the same subway stop where he died four years later. For both 2019 cases, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor assault and was sentenced to six months in jail.

[Anonymous]

Nope, Jordan Neely was making threats on public transportation and was restrained but did not die while being restrained. Him happening to be black and Penny happening to be white is the reason Penny was thrown into this ridiculous trial where an Israel born Jewish lesbian prosecutor got to refer to him as "the white man" and demean him based on his race and treat him like a murderer before the facts even came in. They wanted to lock him away for trying to keep the public safe.

[msc545]

How do you know he didn't die while being restrained by Penny, or is that just your own medical opinion?

[MarjorieJ]

I just learned a few seconds ago that we Neely got on that train, he said: “ someone here is going to die today.”

[msc545]

@MarjorieJ So? It was still just speech.

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545 look it up, they ended up finding out Neely was still breathing at the hospital. in my opinion manslaughter charges should have been altogether off the table after that.

[Opinion Owner]

@MarjorieJ Yeah, even freedom of speech has limits. The old "yelling fire in a crowded theater" example comes to mind.

[msc545]

And where exactly did you "look it up" ? I saw video of medical personnel finding Neely on the floor of the train, dead.

[msc545]

@MarjorieJ So that gives someone the right to kill him? Because you dislike what he said?

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545 I misspoke, he still had a pulse. nypost.com/.../

[msc545]

So maybe he had a pulse but was not breathing and could not be revived. In other words, he was dead.

[goaded]

The jury (a New York jury) didn't think so. I accept their decision, as I do with Hunter Biden and would have accepted on Trump, if he hadn't avoided facing more than the one that found him guilty on all 34 counts.

You can't be ony for the rule of law when it agrees with your views. Sorry.

That said, Judge Cannon and today's SCOTUS are corrupt as hell.

[msc545]

I am always for the rule of law. This was in fact a lynching.

[goaded]

The jury disagrees. Move on. At least there was a trial.

[Snakeyes7]

No. Penny is not a mob and there is nothing racial or ethnic about running around and threatening to harm people on the subway.

That's not something inherent to black people, and the fact that people say it is says more about them more than it does about Penny.

[msc545]

A lynching can be done by just one person - see the definition I posted, please. In this case, the racism is inherent in the person doing the lynching, and the blackness is inherent in the victim. It usually works this way...

[Snakeyes7]

You got me for the group vs individual, but racism is learned through an individual possessing a screwed up sense of pattern recognition typically received through personal experience especially as a child, therefore no one is inherently racist.

You have to prove that there was racist intent with the lynching. There has been plenty of evidence that show that no such intent existed.

[exitseven]

No, it was determined that it was not a murder or manslaughter or even depraved indifference. Fat Alvin tried to sell this to the jury and they still were not buying it.

[msc545]

I don't buy that it was not a murder or at least manslaughter. One day you will be sorry if you continue to endorse vigilantism as you have been doing, since this stuff will come back to you and come back for you.

[exitseven]

@msc545 there are 12 people who have a different opinion.

[msc545]

So?//

[exitseven]

@msc545 just sayin,. The court found him not guilty. It has not even been determined if it was the chokehold that killed him or drugs or something else.

[msc545]

Oh yes, like Chauvin, you will find a way to make it his fault.

[exitseven]

It is hard to argue with a coroners report.

[msc545]

No it isn't if you understand it and what was included and left out.

[OddBeMe]

Iffy. This seems like a classic American trope of valuing one life but not the other. If penny was convicted you'd have a lynching per se. But the people have spoken

[Ladsin2]

Not even close. The cause of death isn't even known. The medical examiner reported no known cause of death and then watched the video and made her decision. Absurd.

[msc545]

The cause of death was asphyxiation. Read the autopsy report.

[Ladsin2]

It wasn't. CoD was pending as she sent off toxicology results. Then she saw the video and made her ruling based on that. When questioned at trial she, "doubled down telling the jury that Neely could have had enough fentanyl in his system to knock down an elephant and that still would not have changed her opinion."
The asphyxiation claim was made purely on video evidence and not based off of any evidence found on the body. She should be sued because this is way outside the purview of her job. She's supposed to assess the body, not the local media for her medical opinion.

[msc545]

Pathologists and coroners often speak to the media and that would not be the basis for a lawsuit since it does no harm to anyone. You do not know what evidence she had or didn't have or whether she examined the mouth or nose or listened to the lungs.

Her medical opinion is a hell of a lot better than your "legal" opinion.

[Ladsin2]

I don't think you understand my statement. A medical examiner's job is to review the body and determine a cause of death based on that body. She could not do so and sent off lab tests to look for a potential drug cause. Then she saw the video and changed her cause of death as a result without any physical evidence leading her to that conclusion.

That is not her job, and it is a flagrant disregard for her job that could have and has significantly harmed someone. I'm a plumber. My job is to do an assessment of what's wrong with your plumbing system and fix it. If I instead let a third party tell me what was wrong with your system and ended up making a repair that ended up flooding your home I would be liable. She should be to.

[msc545]

I know better than you do what a medical examiners job is, and they can use AN Y reasonable evidence including things they see in formulating conclusions. You did not read the autopsy report because your political beliefs are more important to you.

This is not plumbing., friend.

[Likes2drive]

Not from what I heard and he was the aggressor first, he was mentally unstable and should’ve had help and not have been in the public but the mental health system is a failure here

[msc545]

I see, so being mentally ill makes a person the "aggressor" and its ok to kill them?

[Likes2drive]

Well he was but doesn’t mean they all are and it’s never ok to kill someone

[msc545]

In what way was he the aggressor? Who did he hit or strangle or kill?

[Likes2drive]

I guess you have to watch the video and all the witnesses said so

[msc545]

I watched the video - he didn't touch anyone. Did you see something different?

[Likes2drive]

No , he was ranting and raving so he was the aggressive one and people were scared and then the marine guy subdued him with a chokehold but unfortunately for too long

[msc545]

So he was assaulted and killed because of what he said, right? There is really no way around that.

[Likes2drive]

It happens quite often especially in bars , it’s unfortunate but we still have it in us from our ancestors to become violent when pushed and kill like cavemen

[msc545]

When it does happen, the person who commits the assault and kills someone goes to prison - it is illegal as hell. Unfortunately, the killer in this case got away with it.

[Likes2drive]

I doubt it was his intent to kill the guy, he could have gotten the charge of negligent homicide, but the jury saw differently and since we weren’t there, we don’t know why

[msc545]

It doesn't matter what his intent was - the assault itself to begin with was illegal.

[msc545]

I simply do not want to hear that what he did was somehow legal and ok. If his victim had not been black you would be saying something very different.

[Likes2drive]

As far as I know, he was defending himself and others and him being black really had nothing to do with it and I wouldn’t be saying anything different since half of my family is also black

[msc545]

Defending himself from WHAT? Nobody was fighting with him. H just took it upon himself to play hero. I hope the civil suit he gets will take every penny he has.

[msc545]

He had no business getting involved in this at all.

[Likes2drive]

I guess he felt it was his duty to get involved since he comes from a military background and nobody else was doing anything about the guy. We will never know because we weren’t there on how bad it was and if it was justified.

[msc545]

The military is not taught to kill people for their speech

[Likes2drive]

They are taught to kill and maybe he thought he needed to defend everybody. I don’t know. I can’t make excuses for him but what happened happened, there’s nothing we can do about it now.

[msc545]

No nothing we can do. The fact that it happened shows that there is no longer the rule of law in our country, along with the election of a felon for President and the killing of the CEO of United Health.

[Anonymous]

No, that would require pre planning

[slatyb]

No, it wasn't.

[DrPepper12]

No..