Do you agree with, if abortion is illegal, a man leaving a pregnant woman should also be illegal?

[chocolatetwopointo]

agree

disagree

[ohsheeT]

Well there has to be something in place before any of that even happens

I don't understand why guys and girls if they're going to have sex why they do not protect each other...

This is why they should not have sex because they don't understand..

That it is a 50/50 probably a 40/50 out come if you don't use protection the odds are you're going to get pregnant and why girls do not understand this and why guys do not understand this until after everything is already happened... I really think in school there should be a class that has to be taken it's mandatory that a girl has to take care of a baby whether it's real or not for half of a class year just to see what it's like and a guy has to work and pay child support and forget the rest of his life same with the girl there has to be something done before they even get pregnant

[chocolatetwopointo]

bc protection doesn't always work. we have sex ed in school.

[ohsheeT]

The one thing that they forgot to teach in school is cause and effect.. and even parents should be teaching cause and effect

[chocolatetwopointo]

true, but accidents happen

[ohsheeT]

Very true. I could have even been one.

[OlderAndWiser]

Abortion is the legalized murder of an unborn child.

Either partner in a relationship has the right to end the relationship at any time. However, if the guy got the girl pregnant, he is still responsible for paying a share of the medical expenses and then paying child support after the child is born (and he is also entitled to substantial visitation rights as the child gets older and is no longer nursing.

[chocolatetwopointo]

its not murder tho, the point is we should hold men more accountable, its easy to skip out on child support and js leaving.

[OlderAndWiser]

1. You cannnot make breaking up with a person illegal. How would you enforce that law?

2. Abortion is legal but it should not be, except for rare circumstances.

[OlderAndWiser]

Resorting to name calling shows the weakness of your argument and it is rude.. Also, the child growing inside the woman is not HER body; it is a distinct person with completely unique and different DNA.

[chocolatetwopointo]

u are tho, if a woman needs to be assulted to have full rights over her body, then thats fucked up. yes it is her body, whos stomach is growing? who’s food and energy is the fetus taking? who’s gonna give birth? who’s gonna have morning sickness and feel terrible for 9 months straight? sure as hell isn't anyone but the pregnant woman. its still in her body.

[Apple1996]

Well he should be caring for the pregnant woman. Problem is a lot of men are shit once the woman gets pregnant. They don't acutally know how to care for women and often turn abusive.

[chocolatetwopointo]

yeah, they can probably fix that in court, child support and supervised visitation

[Apple1996]

True

[Apple1996]

My dad always believed in if you get a woman pregnant you need to marry and take care of her. A bit of old school thinking but it is the right thing to do

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 I disagree. The premise of your Dad's belief removes accountability from the woman. I agree the father has an obligation to provide for his child, but marrying and providing for the mother (who is equally responsible) is bad advice.

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 don't have sex with a woman if you don't wanna risk having a baby/marrying/providing for her.

And no women already have accountability for the pregnancy. The biggest part of it all

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 you should want to care for the woman who is carrying your child

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 You should be married before having kids

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 I ain't dumb enough to do that. A woman has to test out the baby daddies skills before marrying him

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 that's probably the reason why many divorces happen because the guy acts great until a kid comes along then he turns into a shithead. Men change up when a baby comes along

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 The entire relationship changes when a baby comes along. Including women. But your inability to wait doesn't warrant concession from me.

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 women are allowed to change after having a baby. Men don't go through those changes. They need to stay stable and be the woman and babies support system

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 Ahhh... Do your job while receiving less? I might do that for a woman I respect. But one that has a kid and expects marriage because she "deserves" it... no thanks.

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 oh I didn't expect marriage lol I know not all men are that good like i said in my original comment

[Ariesman81]

If by good you mean stupid... then I would agree

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 stupid for taking care of your own child?

[Ariesman81]

No... stupid for wifing a woman who bears children out of wedlock and advocates the man do the right thing by absolving her of consequences.

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 wouldn't he be the stupid one for sticking his dick in a woman who he doesn't want to support?

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 women are already dealing with the consequences regardless if the man is there or not. Even if she's gets a abortion that's not a easy process

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 Yes he would be. Which is why I advocate men take responsibility for their children. But a woman's burden of child birth is not my responsibility. That was given to you when you were created.

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 ofc but women need support during that

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 Then women should have secured that support before having kids rather than guilting or shaming men into marriage after the fact. I'm sorry... but once a woman has a child out of wedlock... she's lost any leverage she had before the child.

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 there is no way to secure it. Even a married man can walk away after the child is there. I'm glad I had my son before marriage so I could acutally see how my husband was

[Apple1996]

@Ariesman81 also it would have been illegal for me to marry my husband before I was pregnant/gavd birth just cause he was still a minor 😅

[Ariesman81]

@Apple1996 Wow... just wow!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Forcing people to stay together is always a bad idea. This would be like making divorce illegal—it won't help anyone and would make many situations even worse.

[chocolatetwopointo]

then pay child support

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Thats much more reasonable.

[chocolatetwopointo]

the whole point of my comment was to basically make sure the man also takes responsebility, and if he's abusive etc he can pay child support

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Even if he's not abusive, its bad to force someone to stay with a partner or care for a child they don't want to. It is more likely to put the child in more danger (such as neglect and emotional abuse which is super hard to prove in court) than to actually provide them a second caring parent. Also none of this should depend on whether abortion is illegal or not, because it being legal doesn't mean that all women who's parter want to leave will get an abortion. There would still be cases where the woman decides to keep the baby, and the man, tho not abusive, just does not want to help raise it.

in my opinion the most helpful thing government could do in those cases is provide resources to the parents like supplies, childcare, even family or relationship counseling and parenting classes. If he feels unprepared to be a dad this could actually encourage him to stay, and if he still is unwilling to stay then he could pay child support but the mom wouldn't have to rely on that to make ends meet or buy necessities for the child like clothes & food. It could go toward non-necessities that would still improve child's life.

[chocolatetwopointo]

then they can get a divorce with 50/50 time with the kid. thats also a reason abortion should be legal lmao. yeah thats life, when u have sex u consent to fatherhood. if a woman can't back out, neither can a man. yes ofc that should be provided for the parents and kids.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Forcing parent to care for kid ALONE without the parent who actually cares about the kid being present? Even worse idea. If my husband somehow decided he didn't want our kid anymore I would not be comfortable leaving her alone to be cared for by him for half of the time. Consenting to sex isn't consenting to being a father any more than it is consenting to getting pregnant and giving birth. When there is a parent who wants the child, and a parent who doesn't, the best thing to do is help the parent who does want the child to care for it rather than force them to work with someone who doesn't even care about the kid.

[chocolatetwopointo]

then call cps man. that example was if both wanted the kid but didn't work good together. god ur retarded. yes ik? consenting to sex is consenting to mother and fatherhood, thats why ill never do it lmao. yes the one who doesn't want it, should pay child support.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

This whole question you seemed to be talking specifically about dad who doesn't want the child and leaves the mom bc of not wanting to care for the child! That's an entire different issue than just not wanting to be with the mom as partners. Obviously yes in that case both want to help raise the child then there's no reason to force anyone to do anything. So why even suggest forcing when the situation is fine? Both parents help care for child, and just aren't in romantic relationship with each other.

[chocolatetwopointo]

in this situation its fine, in some it isn't. yes thats my point?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

In what situation is it not fine for parents to separate and have split custody of the child they both care about and want to help raise?

[chocolatetwopointo]

when have i said its not fine?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

You just did. You said "in this situation its fine, in some it isn't."

[chocolatetwopointo]

meaning in a case where, both want the kid its fine. but when one does and the other doesn't, its not fine. r u American by any chance?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Bro that's what I was talking about the whole time that 2nd case. But then u said u weren't talking about that case u were just talking about the 1st case. So which is it? In which case should parents be forced to stay together?

[chocolatetwopointo]

OMFG IM GNA LOSE IT ON YOU. IM talking ab the case ab when a man leaves bc he's not responsible, and if he's abusive in any kind of way he should be forced to pay child support. IS THAT TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND? if the woman got pregnant and she wanted to keep it, they can divorce for other reasons tho.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So what was your question about? If u don't think he should be forced to stay if he doesn't wanna stay then what are u even talking about in your question?

[chocolatetwopointo]

oh my fucking god. are you like seriously incapable of reading? WHERE did i say that i dont think they should be forced together. im talking ab abusive parents who are a danger to their kids. thats when they should be forced to pay child support. and if they divorce for other reasons 50/50. if she can't back out, neither can he.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay so if he doesn't want to raise the kid he should still be forced to unless/until he's proved to be abusive. Yeah that's got all the things wrong with it I said to begin with. So how would you make sure he actually takes care of the kid & the kid doesn't get bad effects from being raised 50% of time by a parent who explicitly does not want and does not care about them, and is only caring for them so that they don't get charged with child abuse? When they could just be full time with the parent who DORS want them instead?

[chocolatetwopointo]

yes, the woman may not wanna raise the kid either, but she has to unless she can get an abortion. and unless they both compromise on putting it up for adoption he should. let me ask you, how do you make sure the woman who was denied an abortion takes care of a kid? huh? exactly. as i said, adoption is a thing. fucking retard.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Oh! So you're not talking about where the woman wants the kid & the man doesn't. Ur talking about where NEITHER want the kid! Okay. Yeah that is different. But still best there is to provide resources, & if they still don't wanna stay don't care about the kid, forcing them to raise it is still bad idea. No matter whether 1 or 2 of them is forced. It's possible that there is no good solution to a child's situation too bc foster system is about as bad as the support for parents is rn.. but if neither birth parent is willing to take the baby home then it needs to be taken by an extended family member who is willing at least temporarily, or put in the system, unfortunately...

It's really too bad resourced aren't more ready available tho since that's one of the biggest reasons parents don't want kids especially rn. & ofc if abortion was always available then much fewer people who are not ready or do not want kids would be forced to bring new babies into the world. Could stop the process b4 they even develop & then nobody has to be in that situation except for someone who chooses it. Wouldn't eliminate bad situation for kids but would reduce it fs.

[chocolatetwopointo]

OH MY FUCKING GOD. nah im done. there's no way somebody can be this fucking clueless. I've tried to explain it to you like 100 times, why can't u comprehend shit?

[RavVid]

It might not be the mans child in which case he has a very good moral case to leave the woman to her pregnancy.

Possibly the woman did not get mans consent to father the child in which case he also has a good moral case for leaving the woman.

The woman might be a rapist who raped a young boy to get pregnant and the woman should be prevented from having contact. There have been a number of cases where a teacher has got pregnant to a boy she was raping.

Oddly it seems a boy can be liable for child support despite having become a father from rape.

These circumstances are possibly outside of your intention but really the most that can be done is to make a father pay child support rather than staying with the woman.

[Anonymous]

They use to have this things which was formally called 'marriage' and in such situations a man would be forcefully 'wedded' to the woman to ensure his support of the child he is responsible for.

The Government abolished that idea with redefinition and 'no fault divorce'. Now women and particularly their children are basically screwed. Its terr able example of leftist running over other people in their blind presuite of what ever fad cause the elites controlling their press tell them to worry about.

[Garud]

sounds fair,
in a case where any one of them is not good for the child then he/she can give financial support to the child for the next 20 years but both should have equal rights in the eyes of the law, in case of refusal of a kidney, eye or some other body part can be taken out also or force labour and forced sterilization.

[Agape93]

No. If he's abusive, making it illegal for him to be separated from her is going to get people killed.

If a man gets a woman pregnant against her will, he should be castrated. Ruin her life, ruin his life.

[chocolatetwopointo]

call cps? totally agree with the second thing.

[Agape93]

Cps can't help if there's no kid yet, and taking the kid away if there was one, doesn't help her deal with him. That's even assuming people even bother to do their jobs.

Seems the most fair to me, tbh.

[chocolatetwopointo]

i think they can handle that in court, like he pays child support but can't see it, or can't see it without supervision

[goaded]

Murder is already one of the main reasons for death associated with pregnancy in the US. en.wikipedia.org/.../Pregnancy-associated_femicide

https://www.bmj.com/lookup/doi/10.1136/bmj.o2499

[Dargil]

It should be regulated under state authority so that he pays maternity expenses and child support.

[chocolatetwopointo]

so he can leave he js has to pay?

[Dargil]

The law cannot compel you to stay together even in marriage.

[chocolatetwopointo]

okay?

[Staximus]

What if the pregnant woman wants to man to leave? The law is going to get messy. I believe a man should not father a child that he does not intend to support

[chocolatetwopointo]

whats the reason for that? they can probably settle it in court, like if he's abusive.

[Staximus]

What if they just don't like each other anymore

[chocolatetwopointo]

then divorce and get 50/50 not that fucking hard

[Staximus]

But if it's illegal for a man to leave a pregnant woman then that's a violation of the law

[Staximus]

And everything in real life is not so cut and dry

[chocolatetwopointo]

the whole point is js that he takes accountability for his acctions. go to court, divorce for other reasons, done.

[Staximus]

Well your question says nothing about marriage, what about a man and a woman who are not married? Things are much more complicated in real life. You're young, you'll learn dinner or later

[Staximus]

Sooner or later

[chocolatetwopointo]

then they stay together? as i said, the point was to make sure they both take accountability. ok explain those complicated scenarios.

[Staximus]

Come on little buddy, use your imagination. Like if one person wants to break up and the other wants to stay together, they can hold the other hostage with the law. Or if they aren't married and want to go their separate ways, but they have to get that approved by a court of law. It's a lot more litigation than there needs to be. Guys need to not make babies that they aren't going to stick around for, and girls need to not be stupid and make sure they didn't get pregnant by some no account shit bag or low life

[Staximus]

There are many scenarios

[chocolatetwopointo]

no they can't? js say u want a divorce for other reasons? yeah no shit? but this is for when those accidents happen. ok say them all, ill wait.

[Staximus]

I am not going to play what if for the next hour here you little turkey

[chocolatetwopointo]

wtf💀

[Staximus]

🦃🦃🦃

[subwayperson]

No it was woman's choice to have sex with him. He is not responsible

[chocolatetwopointo]

it takes two to have sex, he also consented to fatherhood when he came inside the woman?

[Anonymous]

yea, it takes two to tango. if we're going all conservative, they should get married if the women gets pregnant regardless if they like each other or not. they kid's wealthfare matters most

[Dongie]

So if a girl let's herself get pregnant she then owns the man involved? WOW!! Get your head examined.

[chocolatetwopointo]

what now? wdym lets herself? both let her get pregnant if they’re having sex. he had sex, and he should take responsebility like the woman is. wdym ”WOW!!” how is that shocking? is it seriously shocking to u that men also have responsebiltys? examined for what? huh? ill wait.

[DrPepper12]

Sure! If your gonna go full in christo-fascist you should go all the way! Talibans got NOTHIN on evangelicals for pure backwardness

[shortster]

Isn't that what used to be called a shotgun marriage?

[chocolatetwopointo]

no idea what that is

[shortster]

When a guy got a woman pregnant her father would force him to marry her typically while holding a shotgun.

[chocolatetwopointo]

okay

[foxsquirrell]

What does a man leaving his pregnant woman has to do with abortion?

[chocolatetwopointo]

if she can't back out, neither should he.

[foxsquirrell]

It is not the same thing. And he can't back out by the way. At least in the sens that by law he has to pay maintenance! You can't force anyone to stay with someone against there will. It would be wrong against the individual, and it would be asking for trouble to force people in a relationship they don't want. See why it is not illegal?

[chocolatetwopointo]

men can easily get out of paying child support. if they wanna divorce or go separate ways, js make sure he takes as much accountability as she does, they can do 50/50 and settle it in court. and its not illegal bc of patriarchy, soceity will always treat men better.

[foxsquirrell]

You are saying it is easy to get out of child support. That is your opinion. I think it is not easy. Not even possible actually unless you can live without working. Your last statement is also very debatable, I'm just not going into it though.

[chocolatetwopointo]

no its a fact. $113.5 billion isn't paid. if its that much, it can't be that hard. www.acf.hhs.gov/.../most-arrears-were-submitted-ocse-more-five-years-ago how could that be an opinion? no men do live better, u cannot prove me wrong on that one.

[foxsquirrell]

I can't see how you can avoid paying child support if you are working legitamtley. Then they must have been forced to figure out how to make money under the radar. Which is another risk to live with.
Still you will not solve anything by making it illegal for a guy to leave his girlfriend. That is ridiculous. Your question is sort of mixing up two things.

[chocolatetwopointo]

I don't know either how they’re doing it, but they r in some way. it will tho, more men will take accountability and more kids would grow up with a father. nah not illegal to leave her, only the baby basically.

[foxsquirrell]

It will not be illegal to leave your baby as well. Only the child support will remain as is.

[chocolatetwopointo]

why do u think that

[foxsquirrell]

I told you already. For one thing you cannot force someone to be with someone else or even physically care of one's own baby. Secondly, let us assume that it would become illegal. Then it will bring more bad than good, because of all the fighting, and doing things forcefully.

[chocolatetwopointo]

they can be forced to take care of their kid, like many girls being denied an abortion. if he's abusive he can pay child support. why would there be fighting? is that better than making women becoming single mothers and abusing them bc they have no help?

[foxsquirrell]

Try make a campaign about this, see how many votes you will get. If you get enough votes you can change the law. Good luck.

[chocolatetwopointo]

it’ll never go through, trust me, men wouldn't let that happen.

[chocolatetwopointo]

i actually heard a woman tried it, but i haven't heard any more of it so im guessing it didn't work

[foxsquirrell]

You can be rest assured that it is not going to work! I can get into more arguments, but at the and of the day values are subjective. What is right for you might not be right for me and vice versa. So you can never prove your point like you can prove science you see.

[chocolatetwopointo]

ok so women should be forced to have the kid and then take care of it by themselves bc men can't take accountability? such a man thing to say.

[foxsquirrell]

Nobody is being forced dear. If you break up after you get pregnant, hard luck. Can't help you. You have to file papers to have a court order him to pay child support, and that's all that you are going to have. End of it.

[chocolatetwopointo]

breaking up usually isn't the case tho. the men leave bc he's not ready for fatherhood. no fucking shit, but as we have discussed its easy as shit to get away with child support.

[chocolatetwopointo]

god u men have it easy.

[Anonymous]

Agreed. Conversely, if abortion is legal, a man should also be able to walk away from an unwanted pregnancy with zero obligations.

[Miristheiss]

Mandatory paternity tests.

[Awantika03]

Agree

[chocolatetwopointo]

why?

[Awantika03]

Because in her womb his baby 🐥 is developing, it's his responsibility to Care the woman

[chocolatetwopointo]

totally agree

[Awantika03]

Thank you 😊

[Anonymous]

Why are you so boring and dumb?

[chocolatetwopointo]

how am i boring and dumb?

[Opinion Owner]

All of your questions are so boring and senseless.

[chocolatetwopointo]

how? what do u want me to ask?

[Sea_Breeze16]

Agree