The British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.
A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.
We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)
Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.
This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.
Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.
Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.
That's a perfect example of using debating skills to make a specious argument. It reminded me of Oliver Wendell Holmes' disingenuous logic in defending government brutality against protestors who were exercising their natural human rights which were guaranteed under the constitution. In doing so, he made it sound like he was defending human rights and that the government was right to trample human rights.
First, prove your assertion that "as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies."
Second, how high minded of you to talk about the value of life in THIS society? Elderly people thrown out of their homes, children in poverty, people denied medical care, homelessness, people treated like garbage. Not to mention what this government does to hundreds of thousands of human beings in other countries.
Dude, people are valueless in American society. They are fully owned and exploited by the government and global bankers from birth. Human beings are tossed on the trash heap every second.
So, to apply your high minded appeal to "the value of life" in regards to the unborn while ignoring living human beings is preposterous.
And not once in your argument did you show one ounce of compassion toward women OR children. You seem to have zero understanding of what it is to be a female human being. All I heard was patriarchal prejudice and contempt for women justified by morality and tradition.
In your life on this planet, I would have thought you would have some familiarity with women's issues. But, in the end, you demonstrate why men should have zero say on the issue of abortion.
@Lliam So your suggestion, if I understand you, is to relativize the value of life from its conception - to make it mere instrument and raw material and embed that idea in law, and that will improve the situation?
The things you point to - treatment of the elderly and such - are not without merit. However, it is highly unlikely that a society whose ethic is that life has not value save that which each person chooses to give it will be any more sensitive to life at any point in time.
We shape the law and the law shapes us. See also again my example of the Civil Rights Act, which responded to, reinforced and institutionalized a different conception of race relations than had hitherto been the norm.
While I do not agree with your sweeping generalization - "Dude, people are valueless in American society." - you are not apt to improve matters with a legal standard that has it that life has no value at all from the start.
My position is the opposite of "life has no value from the start". It's just that I understand that nothing is black and white. Issues, especially the question of abortion, are complex and nuanced.
Why do pro-lifers imagine that the decision to abort is taken lightly and that women are incapable of making rational choices? And what gives our completely amoral legislators the right to dictate on this issue?
My problem with the abortion issue is that the "pro-life" side has politicized it. And when something becomes politicized, gets taken up by people who couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag.
Most pro-lifers don't care about the welfare of women their children or ANY "strangers". They can't imagine anyone's circumstances but their own. They believe in dog eat dog and spend their time congratulating themselves instead of thinking "There, but for the grace of God, go I". Those people should get a life instead of dictating what others should do with theirs. Fucking authoritarians; hypocrites.
@Lliam Who said this was black & white? I make no presumptions about whether the decision to abort is difficult or not. Rather, my point is that if we wish to foster an ethic in society and law which emphasizes the inherent respect for life, than that must be reinforced and institutionalized in law.
The decision may be difficult, but if that precludes the society rendering a collective judgment on the morality of that choice, then you open the gates to some very bad things.
As to the issue being politicized, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. However, there is an inextricable link between politics and morality that cannot be dismissed. As Burke said, "The true principles of politics are those of morality enlarged."
As to this question: "And what gives our completely amoral legislators the right to dictate on this issue?" The public does, by its votes and by the authority it vests in public institutions. There is a name for a society that divorces itself from such questions - not just abortion, but the legalization of drugs, prostitution, capital punishment, crime and a million other issues.
Decadent.
@Lliam Actually, that is the point. They did defy morality. They replaced the traditional moral order with an erzatz creation. Not for nothing have Communism, Fascism and National Socialism been called "secular religions."
They reserved unto themselves the right to define morality and were radically free of traditional morality. Moreover, of course, unlike in the Western world, there was no debate over what constituted a moral order.
Indeed, your Nazi reference is especially interesting. The Nazis simply defined the Jews as non-human and thus subject to the whim of those with the power to enforce their will. Thus why today, in fact, Germany has among the most restrictive laws regulating abortion in the Western world.
(Oh, and just as a somewhat relevant aside, you are corresponding with a man some of whose family lived under the Nazis and then under communist East Germany. This is not just my intellectual knowledge of the subject, but family history.)
Bottom line, once life is defined not as inherently worthy but by a subjective and instrumental standard, you open the gates, as I say, to many bad things.
I'm sick of hearing about Jews every time someone mentions Nazism. Everything isn't about them. I don't buy their persecution complex and desire for special privilege as "most oppressed people in history".
Something like 65% of those sent to camps by the Nazis were non-Jewish. What about Catholics, homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, artists, free thinkers, conscientious objectors, dissenters against the "laws"?
My point was about authoritarianism, tyranny, enforced social norms and values.
What is "traditional morality"? Should we talk about the Inquisition? Puritanism? Slavery? Patriarchy?
I support cultural evolution. I distrust authority. I value liberty and freedom.
I believe in separation of church and state. The definition of morality isn't religious values. People can practice their religion, spirituality or none at all. But I don't have to kowtow to their beliefs.
I see no empathy for women or anyone else by "right to lifers". When I do, they can tell me all about their concern for the unborn. At this point, though, they remind me of Taliban.
@Lliam Uhhm, I didn't mention the Jews. In fact, the members of my family who were from Germany were Lutheran.
As far as seeing no empathy - leaving aside empathy for unborn children - I refer you back to your own statement about being sick to death about hearing about the Jews in Nazi Germany. To repeat, let he who has not sinned...
As to freedom, if you support "cultural evolution" then you should oppose Roe. After all, that ruling precluded further debate in legislatures and Congress and substituted the opinion of 7 male judges. As even the late liberal Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, although she favored the outcome, she thought Roe poorly reasoned, anti-democratic and indeed she predicted that it would likely be overturned. Suffice to add that the abortion debate would be less vitriolic if society had not been precluded from discussing in Congress and the various state and local governments.
No matter, debate is generally a good thing but freedom is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Freedom to debate legal issues - good. Freedom to throw Jews - or pardon me - freedom to throw Gypsies into ovens - bad. To repeat Burke, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations."
You did mention Jews. Reread your comment.
And what make Burke the ultimate authority?
We're not going to change each other's minds. But, in my opinion, pro-lifers don't hold any moral high ground. They're brutes and hypocrites. And as I said before, they are stuck in patriarchal thinking with not respect or empathy for women..
@Lliam Well, if epithets are an effective substitute for an argument, then you have won the day.
Please note that while I believe that you are profoundly mistaken and are failing to take into account both philosophic principle and history, I did not accuse you of being a brute or a hypocrite. That said, if respect for life is mere patriarchy, then guilty as charged I suppose.
You missed my point again. I said that I don't think "right to lifers" respect life. They only pretend to be compassionate in regards to fetuses exclusively.
And yes, ignorance of women's struggles that leads to their oppression is better suited to backwards. patriarchal cultures.
What blows my mind is, many "right to lifers" even oppose access to contraceptives. Excuse me for having no respect for them.
I'll remember about epithets when I hear women called sluts and whores, and when I hear women and abortion providers called baby killers.
@Lliam No, I just didn't go to the trouble of responding to your point. You claim that "right to lifers" don't respect life - and then, in so many words, declare that life's value is entirely subjective and that human's in embryo are little more than raw material.
Bottom line, you don't agree with right to lifers, so you say that they don't respect life. Weeeeellllll...
My references to Burke and all the rest were intended to get away from the character judgments and questioning of people's motives that seems to be you raison d'être and get to more serious philosophical, anthropological and legal questions. I have no reason to question your motives - though again I think you are profoundly mistaken, and so I do not question the motives of either side,
Rather, as I say, I focus on moral principle, philosophy, sociology and history. You did not really go there and opted, almost from your first reply, to question motives. That is pretty well where things stand.
Yeah it's a choice. If pro lifes oppose that then forcing anyone to keep their "child" should be illegal too.
I dont agree with abortion. People should own up to their responsibilities. If you chose to have sex which is of course a risk of conception, then face the consequences. However, if they were raped, they could always carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption if they can't handle the situation. I personally see the baby as one of the few good things that came from the situation.
I thought it was legal. Last I checked at least.
But asker…. It is sad…. but they are allowed to voice their opinions.. doesn’t mean we have to listen 😂
Yes they are entitled but it's ridiculous that they all commenting on shit they can't relate to and have the audacity to judge because they don't agree . All in women's business like stfu.
😂no we don't have to listen but it doesn't mean they won't give their punk ass opinion
😂🤣😎
Like look at the Male to female response ratio on this question 🤣 they don't have to worry about their right t their bodies but they're trying to tell us what we should do... the audacity of it all
Yep… the audacity. I don’t mind hearing their opinions even if they are ignorant. Lol😂
🤣🤣 I don't either until they start bashing us like no stay in your lane heathen
No one wants to hear from men unless their wallet has learned to talk.
Yess!…lol….. ty for the mho.
@Chiarac2003 no problem 💓
Opinion
53Opinion
Yes, because the world is overpopulated and not all people are fit to be mothers or raise children. Someone can dislike abortion all they want, but it's none of your f*cking business what other parents decide to do with their embryos or fetuses they don't want a lifelong commitment to.
Don't get me wrong; an abortion should only be a once-a-lifetime thing a woman does, and it's hard for me to respect a woman who gets more than one abortion in her lifetime. But it's none of your business what other people decide to do with their lives. Especially if you're a f*cking hypocrite who engages in recreational sex, isn't a vegan, doesn't help support children through welfare programs or paying more taxes, or basically anything that is actually opposed to the idea of legitimately being "pro life."
I'm not pro-life, but I also don't f*ck everything that moves and pretends to care about hypothetical "human lives" either. I have talked to a couple of people on GAG who can actually walk the walk and would be willing to adopt children rather than see them aborted, but most pro-life people I've met wouldn't do such a thing, in addition to having loose empty sex, which makes them out to be massive hypocrites and lose any respect or credibility their arguments could have.
No one gives two sh*ts if you're anti-abortion (especially when you don't do anything to help the people already existing in this world); worry about your own life first before trying to force other people to lifelong commitments they aren't capable of fulfilling.
TL;DR: Yes, abortion should be 100% legal.
Although I can understand why it would be illegal in some places, and I simply wouldn't live there; those places aren't very freedom loving.
Abortion is seen to be a very varied opinionated area. Many say that it shouldn't be legal and many say it should. I think it should be legal but with certain circumstances. Many a times, women who are not in the best conditions get pregnant and in those prospects, abortion can be the viable option because it is not best to let a woman give birth to a baby while in a condition to not be able to raise a child, it could just lead to something way worse.
When it comes to women in better financial prospects get pregnant and want a abortion, we should do our all to make the person to reverse their decision of a abortion because they seem to be a person who could give a baby a home. But then again in the end it is still their choice, but just make sure to abort within 8 weeks or the required amount.
Now comes people who abort on a larger basis, people who get pregnant a lot and abort many many times. They should be recorded and have them sterilized. They have been abort for a long time which means that they have abort babies who could have grown up to be someone but were never given the chance.
Abortion should not be legal. It is a life.
There are some situations where it is understandable to have an abortion such as if someone had forced themselves upon to a woman, resulting in her getting pregnant. In the medical field, if the baby is putting the mothers life in danger, it is the doctor's first priority to put the mother first and save her life. But if a woman decided to have intercorse, protected or unprotected, there would still be a chance that she could get pregnant.
It is understandable if the mother is not living in the best of place, or can't keep a home, but that's is where fostercare and adoption come into place. Yes, some of the homes and things like that may not be great, some may be absolutely horrible, but that child still has a chance at life.
It should absolutely be legal but with some limits
I think contraception should be used to prevent unwanted pregnancies, but I realize that shit can happen.
.
I am 1000% cool with chemical abortion within 8 weeks of pregnancy.
I'm cool with abortion under 16-20 weeks. After 19 weeks, I'd be okay with restricting abortions to some compelling reason.
I'm really opposed to serial abortions. Women who do that are lowlifes who shouldn't ever be allowed to have children. They've demonstrated their irresponsibility, ignorance and callousness. I'd say three strikes and you're out. After that, I'd be okay with forced sterilizing such women.
Absolutely not. Only exceptions should be if the woman will die if the pregnancy is continued and if the reason she’d die is because of her own medical issues and not something like an ectopic then a requirement for the abortion should be to have her tubes tied in connection with the procedure so it won’t happen again. Or if she’s been raped but then it should only be allowed if she has actually reported the rape to the police before she could possibly find out she got pregnant, so within 5 days of being raped she should report it to the police and there would have to be some sort of indication of rape - injuries, semen etc and it should also be proven by blood hcg test+ultrasound that the pregnancy isn’t further along than that it would have resulted from the rape.
that's a loaded question in my book since there are pros and cons to having it be legal or not. like I understand there are medical reasons why it can be a good option. but to have it being used people who consented to have unprotected sexual encounters. that sometimes use it as their only means on birth control is poor judgement on their part. however I understand that most types of birth control come with risks or can even fail at times. yet making it totally illegal will likely cause an up tick in miscarriages and/or families on welfare.
but if women have the legal right to opt of parenthood then so should men. because there have been cases when a woman tricks or forces a man into getting her pregnant. so she can have his child to then keep him around physically or financially. even though he never wanted to have a child with her to start with. heck there have even been cases where a woman a man's sperm to inject herself with to get pregnant.
if it's made legal for all cases then people should have to pay for it out of their own pocket or with insurance however. instead of making the government / tax payers deal with the tab.
It doesn't matter if it's legal or not, women would still do it anyway, for whatever reason. So in my opinion, it should be legal and done in a safe enviroment. Making it illegal would just put women in greater risks. It doeasn't matter the reason; rape, unmature, irresponsible, finnancialy unstable... it should be womens right to choose. Yes, I agree, it is a murder. BUT, making it illegal DOESN'T stop it!
Yes, I believe abortion should be legal in all cases and it should always be safe and easily accessible. Idc how many pro-lifers downvote me for this. Abortion rights are women's rights.
Actually, I think abortion should be legal up to around 24 weeks of pregnancy when the fetus is viable outside the mother's womb. Exceptions for late term abortions are if the mother's or baby's life is at risk. That's what I meant to say. So I should take back the part about abortion being legal in all cases. Too bad I can't edit.
*Legal for any reason up to around 24 weeks of pregnancy.
Yep. But I think it should be accessible and affordable. The reason a lot of people get an abortion is because of financial issues. Having to spend up to 3k to get one is ridiculous and unsafe.
If a person cannot afford a kid, they should not get pregnant.
@BillyBalls if a person cannot have a kid then they shouldn't have a kid*
Afford to have a kid*
That's what pre-planning is for. Plan prior to sex. Relying on a man you may barely know with his whopping one form of contraceptive probably isn't the best plan, right? Yeah, not the wisest choice hinging everything on a guy whose name you forgot already, I'd say. Well, with women having around eleven forms of birth control available to them, I ask you... how could pregnancy occur?
It just... happened.
Problem is abortion has been abused to where it's simply become another form of routine contraception rather than the emergency procedure used to rectify the scarce birth control failure or the 'honest mistake'. The original assumption was it'd be really quite uncommon to know a woman who had to have an abortion. But instead it's relevance has come to be almost as natural, accepted and non-descript as putting snow tires on your car or seeing your podiatrist. At least that's the way it's spoken about.
No woman should be heard saying something as casual as 'I'm pregnant again? Well, that's alright. I'll just abort it later when I get a chance. Shucks, we're low on lemonade mix again..."
@Screamsgutter abortion isn't abused. You seriously think women are putting themselves through a painful process just because they can that can cost up to 3k?
@Smashingdoozy In most cases, abortion is the ultimate form of birth control. It is abused.
It is much easier and cheap to but a condom or take the pill.
@BillyBalls again nobody is putting their body through that on a regular basis. It hurts. And birth control is much more affordable.
Don't need to think if it should be since it is here. And that's the way it will remain because we voted in 1967 and to change that vote is unnecessary as the younger generations that came after 1967 are for sure not in the majority of people who think it should be banned. Therefore the vote would just again say legal it is.
Yeah we get it you're a sick fuck...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/UCukX_CpCEkThat's why second trimester abortions aren't enough for you... You want to be able to abort even while you're dilating...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iBWMU-M9r7sYou have to please Moloch huh...
I wouldn't abort the child if I ended up pregnant, but I'm pro-choice and I think abortion should be legal. There is no point in banning it because it won't stop women from doing it. It will just cause more problems and harm. Women will find a way to do it - whether alone or in unsterile conditions by someone doing it illegally. I remember this case from a few years ago that happened in Argentine when a woman died because of complications after an illegal abortion.
Abortion is murder.
We have been sold a lie that it's about a woman's choice.
A choice to what? When we have so many means of birth control the vast majority or Abortions are for a quick fix to the ,, problem,, I find that attitude inexcusable
I wish the Government would go the way of the Dinosaur.
No MASTERS and No GODS
But, the silver-lining with them over-turning Roe vs. Wade, the Duummb-Azz Democrats may burn D. C. to the ground without us lifting a finger, which is the wet dream of all us Libertarians and Anarchists.
You ever notice that all the people who advocate for abortion were not aborted themselves by their parents?
Yes, it should not be funded by the government however and it should be between woman and her doctor.
I don’t think it should be legal for convenience reasons. There’s more than enough effective birth control that will prevent the vast majority of pregnancies that result in abortions today.
And I dont' give a fuck about your update.
Yet u commented about it 🥱 okay joe
I dont support abortion unless in extreme cases where giving birth would be fatal to the mother.
So if it's not fatal to the mom , she should be forced to have the baby?
Yeah she should give birth to the child unless it will kill her in the process. And maybe if she was raped and she could prove it, maybe.
Or if she simply does not want a child rn. 🙄 some people aren't meant to be parents
Thats not a good reason to abort a child. Just because you dont want it. You had a choice most likely in having sex and should know the risks.
You're a male and don't have the right to tell me I need to keep a child I don't want. U don't have to bear a child at all and don't know what it's like. Yes I know the risks but things just happen. Idgaf if I'm poor or not , if I don't want a child then that's my decision. Especially knowing 97% of u males will not help the mothers out or just want to trap us. If anything there should be a law passed on u men being required to get a vasectomy after having a certain amount of children u not taking care of tf
I dont need to know what bearing a child is like to know killing is wrong. And where did you get the 97% of men try to trap the woman with the child? Im not trying to say some men dont do that but women also dont allow the father in the child's life as well. It goes both ways.
Bro it's a fetus not a baby a the time. Lmao loud and wrong
Okay then.
I still waiting on u to comment about men not taking care of the kids they make and the vasectomies you all clearly need to be forced to get since you have so many comments about forcing child birth.
Some men are scum for abandoning their children and families but others aren't allowed to be in the child's life because of the mother. Im not ignorant to the fact that women are left as single mothers and left to provide by themselves.
But u basically saying despite all that, she should be taking care of it anyways so I'm done with this convo. U are only critizing the women in this and not the men. There needs to be laws passed on u males if anything. You all are beside yourselves.
Whatever, then.
Yeah whatever 🙄 have a good one hun
Thanks you too hun.
How about we cut the crap about who's responsible 'cuz we all know it's ultimately womens' responsibility. Consensual sex doesn't occur without a woman's say so. Bottom line. Too lazy or drunk to check if he's wearing a condom? Or to use one of the eleven or so contraceptives available to women which hardly ever seem to be part of the conversation.
Do you think the guy you met four hours prior to having a one-night stand with him is obliged to hang around your place until you wake up? Or the motel? He'd be an idiot to take you to his place, but if he nailed you without a condom, even just concerning STD prevention, he can't be too bright.
Your body, your responsibility has a nice ring to it.
I believe a woman has the right to decide if she will give birth or not, but must make that decision before the fetus is viable outside the womb (around 24 weeks gestation).
Yes, I do think it should be legal and accessible to women.
I say if you want one you should pay for just like you do for clothing a car etc.. If you do not want one you do not have to get one but respect the right of others, the way you want your rights respected
Not just legal, but mandated for all the worthless, welfare rats. Every girl in the inner city should be on government mandated birth control, and have any conception aborted quickly.
Fuck yeah. Kids are everything that is wrong with the world.
Plus, we are way over -populated on the planet. I can go on and on...
Everyday, for breakfast all women (except those who really want human maggots) should take a handful of "Morning-after" pills with coffee
You sound just like the Nazi who experimented on babies and used their parts…your womb is a Hitlerian Gas Chamber.
Abortion should be illegal in all cases, irresponsible women should not be pandered or tolerated, and women who abort should be severely punished.
Calm down 🤣
The fuck?
I agree it should be illegal for the most part but definitely not for every circumstance
I mean there could end up being birthing complications or maybe it wasn't her fault? Rape is a factor too
For the most part though I agree play stupid games win stupid prizes
It should not be legal. The fact that the baby could also have a heartbeat and is legal to be aborted at that stage is sickening as well.
😂😂😂😂😂
Nah my life is more important than a fetus sorry.
You are basically saying that the fetus matters more than the mother even if she was raped, you are basically saying she should endure 9 months of pregnancy and giving birth to the bastard child. Gross!
It should be legal BUT only for a very limited time! After this it should be a lifesaving medical emergency only!
I believe it should have no in Federal law. The states' elected representatives should have sole authority over it
So you think it shou;d be available up util the moment of delivery and someone else should pay for your abortion?
I don't even know what u are trying to ask me so I'm gonna ignore it 😂😘 have a good day
No. Not unless men get an equal importance say in the decision making and not just the woman. Otherwise, it's sexism and should be illegal
Our government has had 50 years they have not done thing yet except blow hot are. Ask your government leaders that we voted in office.
Someone's upset 😂 calm down smucker
😊 I am calm getting tired of women crying about abortions. It is not the responsibility of the supreme Court Justice to create laws. It is the responsibility of our Congress and senators to make the laws. I remember when supreme Court justices allowed it at that time through a temporary injunction to allow portions to take place safely.
😒 Chile anyways so...
For ectopic pregnancies and other cases where the woman's life is in danger, yes.
Abortion as a form of birth control should be illegal.
Nothing is free, if you can't afford it ask your Mommy...
@waldoe 🤣 you're still talking like a teenager and you're near your expiration date stfu 🙄
I think it should be illegal except under the circumstance of the mother´s life risk and the incapability of saving the child or children life.
Yes, i do
And yes, i think it should be cheap, not free, but cheap
No. It should be illegal; save for cases were the life of the mother is in jeopardy.
Men can have an opinion.
i am against abortion, but it should be legal, i cannot make choices for a woman
Yes, and in some situations it should be an obligation.
Yes, it should be, because most people do not use BC protection
Now hold on now... cost worthy? Whatchu meaaan?
Lol cost worthy means expensive
No I do not. I think abortion is a evil practice.
Yes and without restrictions
Legal, safe, and (hopefully) rare.
Of course, it should.
No. Abortion is murder.
Criminalize it with a 10,000 fine each time
Why?
If that's the case , you men need to be fined 100,000 for getting us pregnant.
But they're not going to unless forced to so if we pay that fine, then you all should be paying a much bigger one
The girl was not alone in that bedroom yet she is the one having to be forced to take on the baby if the dad doesn't want to be a man
Stop woman hating 😒 u clearly want the woman to be held accountable for not wanting a baby and all I'm pointing out is that you all need laws passed on you more than we ever will lol
I'm dumb but u can't spell "just" correctly? Lmao okay 🤣ur done. I was pointing out that u want the women to be fined but not the men. Dumb ass bitch. That was my point that u clearly missed but u have the audacity to say I have a low IQ. Fuck outta here. Good day
Women hold the final say whether sex occurs. That's the bottom line. Why would you agree to have sex with a guy who doesn't have a condom on? Or at least one on him that he can use (and is why some girls keep one or two handy just in case)? You can have a one-night stand with a guy you've never met before. He splits before you even wake up and doesn't leave a phone number. If you think he's under some obligation to 'own up' to something or even see how you are in the morning, you're mistaken. So now he's gone, probably for good, unless you meet him again by chance.
Naturally to you it's the man's fault, with his whopping one form of contraception and no obligation to take a census of the previous night's activities with you. Meanwhile the eleven or so contraceptives open to women somehow either aren't enough to do the job or aren't even part of the conversation.
Here's a new one - your body, your responsibility. No one is gonna care about your body more than you.
@Kumarima See, what happens here is the conversation is averted from the normal, everyday occurrence of sex without contraception to outlying occurrences that cannot be considered the norm i. e. special circumstances. Yes, in the case of rape, incest and if there's a chance the woman won't survive the birth - those are the exceptions. The exception for a 'late term abortion' is if the scan of a fetus shows it suffers of some sort of deformity to an extent that it will inhibit its chances to live a life of any 'quality'.
I've been told that rape claims will become the norm if it's one of the few 'legal' ways to have a pregnancy aborted. I've also been told that false rape accusations/claims will probably go up as well if this is the issue. In the first case, a police report about the incident would have to be filed by the woman, and if the incident leads to pregnancy, she'd need that report to make her eligible for abortion. It's what will separate the real deals from the those that aren't. In the second issue (of false accusations), if a woman is willing to lie, she will. If she's not only willing to lie, but is willing to go the extra mile and somehow has little problem installing some innocent guy in the very legally/personally serious 'role' of her rapist, then all I can say is she's of an evil whose presence should be steered clear of by every man, woman and child (especially a newborn) as well as any animal, plant or mineral.
Yes, but pay for it on your dime.
Only in cases of sexual assault/abuse
With some small caveats, yes, for sure
Yes! But only for those who can pay for it!
Only in specific circumstances
Erm it is legal
Erm Well u males are sting in a office trying to get it illegalized
Nope we are more than happy it’s legal.
The system works, it’s been legal for a number of years and it’s been male crown court judges keeping it legal by the way,
Erm No thas bs , Do u not know about the pending possible overturn of roe vs wade?
by the way CROWN court judges, get the hint…
It’s legal in pretty much ALL of Europe
Erm I'm talking about the U. S tho sweetie
*united states had the roe vs wade , not Europe
Erm where does it say that in the question ‘sweety’ ?
Erm the Roe vs wade case is the reason why this question is asked sweetie
But that is in no way obvious from the question to a Global site.
If you Americans let religious fuckwits have too much power, this is what happens.
Sensible countries removed Religion from the equation and left it to Medical and legal to work it out and then politicians put it into law.
It’s fairly simple really.
🤣 fuckwits , I gotta use that one
Yeah I know that's your country is in ran better cuz they care about the citizens. U. S politicians don't give a damn. And anyone that does care will most likely be killed.
*that's why your country is ran better
This is where you have Freedom of Speech but NOT Freedom of Choice
No I have freedom of choice , men just have the audacity to think they can take it away
Unfortunately you will find there are some women among those who but religion first.
The same ones who will disown (or threaten to kill) their child if they come out as Gay at 13.
I know, and it's sad
Yeah and the MIMB lot on here are all for it.
Mainly as they will likely never have sex
Yes.
Nope. Life deserves to exist.
A bad mother is a bit of a ways off from torture.
It is kinda telling that you have to discredit half the population's opinions in order for your argument to hold water. As if it was impossible to share knowledge and experience with one another. If that was the case schools would be pointless.
I'm not discrediting you males honey , you guys are disrespecting us because u think we should keep a fetus if it's not fitting to your ideals. It's simply not your place especially since men walk away from us if u decide u don't want it after its born so idgaf what if you al l don't agree buti will not stand for the disrespect towards us because u disagree. Fuck outta here
I don't disrespect women. I just value human life. And my understanding of what constitutes a human life is it begins at conception. When the DNA from the sperm fuses with the DNA from the egg.
Okay 👍 🥱
If you can't imagine what it's like to have for example a child from an abusive asshole man, you can still imagine what it's like to be born to such parents, and not be cared for properly. If I was a fetus in this situation I'd prefer to get aborted.
I'd prefer to get aborted if I had disabilities.
And I don't think anything should be illegal, every action bears it's own consequences, that's just a law of the universe, not a man made law.
I have a disability and a had an abusive father. I am glad I wasn't aborted, in spite of that.
I am pro life
Yes, up until the second tri-mester.
Yes.
Medically necessary procedures should be covered by insurance like any other condition requiring treatment. Abortion without a medical need I don’t think should be covered.
*amendment. But still available in early stages for things such as rape, etc.
Yes 100% yes.
@lofii you are assuming abortions are the result of promiscuous behavior. Couples who are not ready to be parents need abortions.
But what's wrong with people having sex. As long as it's safe sex.
@lofii the counties that have sexual education have some the lowest rates of teen pregnancy. I agree with you people should have safe sex and that abortion should be a last resort after everything else fails.
But in your comment you appeared to have a problem with people having sex, not just a problem with abortions.
No one wants to have one. I know there are women who had more than one, so what? Doesn't mean they enjoyed any of them. For the most part people do treat abortion as a last resort. Think of how many people have sex. Think on how many abortions are made.
Couldn't care less if a woman wanna make herself for the streets or if a man wants to be a thot himself. But if you get pregnant or get someone it should be on them to take responsibility after the first abortion.
According to Forbes about 25% of tax payer dollars are spent on funding abortions.
@lofii your profile says you are from Japan. I will assume that is not the case and you are actually from the US. Mostly for the rush in calling me a liberal. I will never understand why health costs so much there.
If one is fine, what makes the second one so wrong? Sure people should have learned the first time, I agree. But then you will have the case that people who were careless the first time, careful in the second, but got unlucky with the condom. Just an example.
It should be something decided democratically.
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