Why did President Trump make electronics exempt from tariffs for China?

[exitseven]

Some people seem to think that Chinese electronics are important to national security. I think that since electronics are the biggest item the US buys from China he is going too easy on them.

[NaultD]

So it is bad that China has so much control on such important technology. We should be proactive and do something about it. The thing to do is use our (now former as don backstab them) allies and with a global collective tear China down a peg or two.

Like have a game plan to start. Have a dozen country pick a part they are good at and start making progress. Let experts move and play the largest role they can. Have the free market put the screws to China to play nice. We have shiny new toys and if you just stop being an ass you can play too.

Basically what don did is I'm taking my ball home fuck all you guys. Then is sad and alone when no one kissed his ass. Now is the cool kid on the block and setting the pace globally even if they are authoritarian dictatorship.

[exitseven]

President Trump wants to make electronics domestically. He figured this out during covid. Same with pharmaceuticals. Itis foolish to trust a foreign country with vital products that the country needs to live. The US is one of th biggest suppliers of agricultural products. We should be using that as a club to get better trade deals. Everyone has to eat.

[NaultD]

China got here with 100 years with crimes against humanity against its people. Usa is supposed to over night take over without the average person wanting to die?

Also usa has been buyer of everything and trading it for beans. Which made us top dog. Once we start bashing peoples head in and making them say thank you by picking the bottom of our shoes like Don likes to do the globe is going to tell us to save our beams where the sun don't shine.

[NaultD]

I also want to point out the average American hates wal mart for asking to see the receipt to leave.

Why would the global economy be any different when we make completely baseless fictional accusations and we throw our little temper tantrum of tariffs. Then we get told to kick rocks.

If there was press this button to win global domination we've would have done it. The reality is Usa has been making every move to make millionaire and now billionairs win and they get to piss on the working class head and make us say thank you for the privilege.

The leftist woke mod just want a fair share of whatever they are getting. For whatever reason you feel more solidarity with a man who grew up working a newspaper route but got permission to use a limo driver on rainy days his name is don. Yet can't find any solidarity with the said limo driver.

How do you have any level of self respect?

[katiesmuff]

I agree with the fact that we should be making all that stuff at home, so why didn't trump, musk and all their other stinking filthy greedy rich friends put a bit of their fortunes into building these businesses. We lowly mortals certainly do not have the funds or ability to do these things.

[OlderAndWiser]

I don’t understand but he has access to a vast amount of information and he has s reason for his choices.

[katiesmuff]

He has no brain to reason with, just a total incompetent idiot around the entire world.

[Dargil]

Maybe to appease techies.

[OlderAndWiser]

@katiesmuff Your opinion is stated in a way that reflects upon your character.

[Dargil]

She should be called @karensmuff

[katiesmuff]

I certainly hope so!

[OlderAndWiser]

@katiesmuff Being angry and easily triggered are not good things to have on a resume.

[katiesmuff]

That is something I will never have to worry about!

[OlderAndWiser]

@katiesmuff I'm sure; however, the statement is not intended to be taken literally.

[Lynx122]

Because he's all bark no bite. Haven't you noticed it yet? He loves to act tough but in reality these tariffs won't have the effect he always talks about. He froze the funding for the Chips act which was supposed to support manufacturing in the U. S. Without support and with constant uncertainty there won't be a manufacturing boom in the U. S.

His policies were never gonna have the effect that he told everyone they would so he has to back down before people can see the results for themselves. Did you really think there was a magic strategy to make a country richer? First of all the U. S. is already the richest country in the world because of free trade. The regular people just don't see any of that money coming towards them. And secondly if there was a magic strategy then everybody in the world would try and use it. But everytime tariffs have been tried they only led to poverty and stagnation.

He also backed down because Apple and Nvidia probably asked him real nicely to not bankrupt their companies.

[MrOracle]

The "Chips Act" was a terrible piece of legislation. Yes, the base concept is good - making the most advanced chips in the USA - and that's still something that needs to be done. But, as is typical, the actual BILL is a disaster, with tons of pork, corruption, and other insanity. Don't confuse the goal with the bill - they are two very different things.

[Lynx122]

@MrOracle Well where's Trumps own bill that is so not corrupt to replace it?

[MrOracle]

I don't know. Maybe one already exists, or maybe they decided a bill isn't necessary because companies have already figured out that it's necessary to move production here anyway. I'm not in the cabinet.

But stopping the bleeding of bad bills is a bigger priority. We'll continue to import chips until we can make our own - that's not going to change either way. Most of Trump's agenda has LONG-term goals, not just short-term ones. Our government spends WAY too much chasing short-term goals that screw everyone over in the long term - but that's what everyone is used to, so it's what everyone expects. They can't handle it when someone goes outside the norm and does something different.

[katiesmuff]

Likely because after doing his usual of running his mouth without a brain montering what it spews the tech giants jumped in and mentioned to him, that most every component we need for phones, computers and such come from china, which we couldn't make ourselves for years and years. Then musk pulled his head out of donalds filthy asshole and said "hey buddy I can't make my cars or spaceships without that stuff", so now the clown could do nothing but once again look like an incompetent fucking idiot and back off on that stuff!

[BonzoInBitburg]

It's unclear what his actual plan is with tariffs because it's constantly changing. What is clear is the markets don't like it. There's a big selloff in 10 year US bonds and it's a bad sign when there are more sellers than buyers of US debt. The rumor on Wall St is that Japan and China threatened to sell a combined almost 2 trillion in bonds and send US borrowing rates through the roof. Trump's in a bit of a pickle. Xi doesn't have to worry about midterm elections and he's ok with killing the US economy along with theirs.

[ProbablyClueless]

The approach and policy of the tariffs was always to bring people to the negotiating table. The Chinese are no exception.. High tariffs and restricted trade was never the end goal. I imagine that there is enough institutional inertia around the production of electronics that there will be a phase down of Chinese chip production.

[ProbablyClueless]

That is; a gradual phase down that may take the better part of a decade, especially as silica and battery tech improves.

[Syntosi]

While I think Trump still wanted 10% or more on all countries, because he do actually believe in tariffs being a good thing, but you are right. He did try to use tariffs as leverage against other countries.

However, that also means that Trump has been forced to back down and give up his leverage and from the look of things, at no concession from the Chinese side. They played chicken and it was Trump who blinked first. That is indicating to me that China is going to eat Trump alive in any future trade negotiations and it will be USA that probably suffers from that.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi Nah... it is WAY WAY WAY too early to try to draw any conclusions. I think it's counter productive to assume that Trump has made any concessions until ink is drying on paper. This is an evolving situation. All we can do is take a deep breath, don't react, and watch how the situation unfolds.

This kind of thing is what people (Trump included) are talking about when they say "the art of the deal."

[Syntosi]

I think its important to highlight that Trump did not write "The art of the deal", that was written by Tony Schwartz and Trumps name was just pasted onto it for higher sales. The things in the book has basically nothing to do with Trump or his business practices.

As for Trump caving into Chinas demands? He has already made 2 public concessions that I can think of. First he paused his tariffs with most of the world for 90 days and then he made exceptions for the tariffs with China for certain categories. In return China has not given Trump an inch as far as we know.

While we dont know what goes on inside closed doors except for the things people gossip about and that is mostly how desperate Trump is and how firmly China refuses to budge, and I am happy to ignore those rumors for now, the optics of this is still that Trump is caving quickly where as China is strong.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi It doesn't matter who wrote the book. What matters is the technique being employed. My point is that I think it's pretty tough to argue that either of those were concessions. The 90 day pause on tariffs speaks to Trump's stated goals of bringing the other countries to the table, and the electronics exemption from the reciprocal tariffs is being covered by the semi conductor tariffs. www.cnn.com/.../index.html

I think it's tough to argue that either of those really amount to caving. It's just part of the game.

[Syntosi]

Again, Trump does not employ the techniques from the book. He probably never even read it if you ask me.

And no, its not hard to argue that those two things were concessions. The pressure from the tariffs were supposed to be the leverage in his negotiations, aka the longer you deny my demands the more damage your economy will take. Putting in a 90 day pause removes this pressure and allows other countries to essentially ignore Trumps negotiations for another 90 days without lifting a finger without incurring any additional damage.

If you combine that with the exemptions to the Chinese tariffs that Trump also gave without China doing literally anything then it paints a picture of Trump not being strong enough to force the issue. He was relying on the opposition to cave in before he himself had to implement the pause and add exemptions because otherwise he himself looks like the weak one who can't keep this up.

By the way, do you know that Trump is not actually really collecting on the tariffs? There are a bunch of importers that are currently very confused when they never got hit by the additional tax.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi 🤷‍♂️ All we can do is wait and see!

[Syntosi]

Oh really? Are we just supposed to lay down and pathetically wait for the obvious to happen? That is such a beta move.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi "obvious" is how you get slaughtered. Leopards and Praying Mantids spend a lot of time waiting for the obvious to happen. I wouldn't call a leopard or mantis very beta.

[Syntosi]

... Did you just admit to laying down and wait for a leopard to eat your face?

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi nope. I said that panicking like you are doing now is how you get your face eaten by leopards.

[Syntosi]

Yeah.. Not panicking. Understanding the situation and reacting appropriately is not panicking. Ever heard of fight, flight, freeze? That is the panic response. You are freezing.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi tou know who else responds and reacts rationally? Gazelle who don't know they are about to be eaten by Leopards. I'm not freezing; I'm watching. It's very different. The same way the Leopard is watching

[Syntosi]

A leopard does not watch. It prowls. Again, you are not an Alpha. You are a beta.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi My results in life have indicated otherwise, but who knows? Maybe you're right. All I am saying is that you are not going to do yourself any harm by not being so reactive.

[Syntosi]

Nonsense. Its always "lets just wait and see" with you people. Its never the time to act.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi but on the other side, acting at the wrong time does more harm than good. I'm not saying anything crazy, just don't act on impulse. That's all

[Syntosi]

That is just options paralysis. A bad choice done at the right time is generally better than a wrong choice done too late.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi that's not options paralysis if you are still gathering necessary information. Options paralysis only happens when you have all the information you need. You're just prevented from making a decision because you are overwhelmed by the options available to you.

I'm not talking about being overwhelmed by the choices available to me, I'm talking about not making a decision I don't need to make because I don't have sufficient information.

[Syntosi]

That is exactly what options paralysis is. Trump is one of the most recorded humans in our history. We have a deep record of his past actions and the reasoning that went behind it. Building a psychological profile on Trump is not particularly difficult at this point and we can also track his behavioral patterns.

For example, when I put forward that Trump wants to keep a minimum of 10% tariffs on all countries, that is not speculative. I am basing that on decades of Trump statements of his approval of tariffs as a good idea. Furthermore, Trump has made it quite clear that he wants to replace existing taxation, more specifically income tax, with tariffs which means he can't remove them without exploding the deficit.

I do not need to "wait and see" to make deductions like this when we already have decades of reliable information on what is going to happen.

Then there is you. Who can't make a decision to save your life even when all the information is already readily at hand.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi we certainly can predict his behavior, you are correct about that one thing

[Syntosi]

Hence we can predict him caving and also predict his negotiation strategy, because these are the normal things he does. What we can't predict is how China is going to respond but judging by how they have responded so far it is not a stretch to say that Trump is losing this negotiation and that he is currently desperate.

This desperation can also be independently verified by the increasing erratic and angry lashing out that Trump is doing on a daily basis now. He does not do this when things are going his way.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi i'd say China is reacting exactly as expected. You and I also disagree about whether Trump is "caving." I think that is a categorically unreasonable, hyperbolic and bad faith characterization of what's going on.

[Syntosi]

Oh really? How exactly HAS china reacted outside of just shutting down all negotiation attempts and responding to every tariff until it became pointless?

[ProbablyClueless]

Were you not expecting them to do exactly that? Their entire economy is based on providing the world's manufacturing slave labor. Of course they're fighting back.

If you want to hear the Chinese plan directly from the horse's mouth, here is a video they posted on YouTube https://youtu.be/vhj0sNpHCms?si=nR_GGsj8tjW-suYG

[Syntosi]

Meh, does not really sound like there is an actual response outside of just making fun of USA and Trump specifically.

But I think you have missed something. China has seen this trade conflict with USA brewing for a while and taken steps for like a decade at the very least to mitigate the damage. At this point China is willing to cut off trade with USA, the opposite is not true. They have put in a lot of effort to make sure that they have alternative markets that they can move at least some of the trade that used to go to USA. If Trump pushes China too far then I can definitely see them just giving up on negotiations entirely and stonewall Trump.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi eh... the US buys enough of their exports, and they own enough of our debt that cutting trade off with us would hurt them a great deal. Maybe even more than it would hurt us.

But in any case, I hope this discussion has provided a bit of insight into why someone could reasonably say that this situation is still very much evolving.

[Syntosi]

Evolving? I have learned nothing in this conversation that I did not already know going in.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi I didn't say I hoped you agreed with me. What I said is that I hoped you could understand why someone could reasonably want more information before making any rash decisions.

[Syntosi]

No I can't, especially since you do not appear to be particularly interested in looking up said information if it were to exist either.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi Oh please... I'm a venture capitalist and corporate merger lawyer by profession. If you have some information you think prompts more immediate decision-making, please send it my way.

[Syntosi]

I find that VERY hard to believe. Mostly because you appear completely uninterested in understanding context, finding out about the history to make decisions and such things. You appear completely content with simply existing and passively wait for something to drop into your lap.

Also, if I am not mistaken then were it not you who said they would consider using AI to summarize a study or whatever? That sounds highly dubious of anyone who is interested in being factually correct on the details.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi You're thinking of someone else with the AI comment; I do remember the guy you're talking about, though. His comment was sort of out of place with that discussion thread. That comment about the AI isn't something I would have said, specifically because my criticism of the study you were citing is that you were ignoring the context the study was done in.

I'm extremely interested in information and context. My entire argument here is that it's essential to have complete information and context (as much as is possible) before making decisions. That's why I'm asking you, if you have some piece of information that's prompting your decision-making, to send it over to me.

[Syntosi]

Well, as it so happens, we have another example of Trump backing down to on his tariffs with auto parts. Is this the 3rd of 4th time he has backed down on his earlier positions without us seeing a single concession given by any other country?

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi Are you referring to this? www.cbsnews.com/.../

We have Trump CONSIDERING (which is not the same as formally implementing) a PAUSE (meaning that the tariffs have not been completely reversed, to give US BASED COMPANIES (the companies Trump wants to protect, more time to RETURN THEIR FACTORIES TO THE UNITED STATES (which is his stated objective of bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US).

So if we analyze the context of this situation, we see that a president is giving people an opportunity to suffer minimal harm as they comply with his demands.

[Syntosi]

You are correct, I misheard the news it appears. That said, this is still a retreat. Trump very specifically stated that the auto tariffs were permanent previously. Openly signaling that he is reconsidering his position is still taking a step back and giving the other side of negotiations more leverage because they no longer need to make Trump "reconsider" if that was their objective. It also indicates that Trump is having problems domestically which again shows weakness in negotiations.

nypost.com/.../
If we contrast that with China, they decided to apply more pressure on USA.

One side is backing down repeatedly, the other is increasing its pressure. This is not a negotiation that is currently going Trumps way.

I would also say that I think that any factory or business that moves to USA at this point would be stupid. There is too much uncertainty. Even if you calculate today that you could make a profit by doing so, moving would take probably more than 4 years and then take probably 5-15 years to become profitable. We do not know how USA will look like in 20 years or what trade barriers there will be. Making the move right now is pure gambling and even then the odds looks grim since the math for moving only works if the trade barriers are maintained. If they drop the trade barriers in the future then it would have lost since USA was only profitable in that calculation at the time because of the barriers in place.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi I get the impression that this is a situation where Trump will be dedicient in your eyes, no matter what.

[Syntosi]

Not necessarily. I respect Trumps ability to whip the GOP into compliance even though most of them very obviously hate him. His ability to infiltrate and take over the entire organization and the loyalty of their voters speaks to a powerful ability to get his way in negotiations. He demands and others stumble to serve.

The problem has been that this has not worked with China and most other countries. And if you ask me, I think Trump is a bit of a one-trick pony.

[ProbablyClueless]

@Syntosi fair enough! I'm not thrilled with how aggressive he has been with these reforms either. Too much chaos for my liking.

[Syntosi]

Aggression has always been Trumps primary negotiation strategy however. If not going out strong then Trump never even stood a chance, even if he ultimately lost in my humble opinion.

[Avicenna]

The short answer is that it was lobbying by Apple and other very powerful companies. That said, it doesnät make sense to put tariffs on products we don, t make unless youäre trying to force them out of being made in China (India and Vietnam have take some of this manufacturing from China).

It would be best to have electronics made in the US, but, realistically, the best we can do is to cut the Chinese out of the business (and, yes, for national security reasons).

[Julie4]

Trump has come back to the reality of the world. Hence the 90-day tariff breaks, and the exception for China for electronic products (bearing in mind that electronic products account for a large share of Chinese exports. )

[exitseven]

maybe, I just do not think that going easy on China will get the result he wants.

[Julie4]

The problem is that Mr. Trump has launched this trade war, forgetting the consequences it would have on the American economy.

The financial markets reacted very badly. And Trump, who refused to negotiate, finally put the tariffs on hold to negotiate and reassure the markets.

The reality is that Americans aren't ready to pay more for their products, and don't to accept the consequences of a real trade war.

[Julie4]

But maybe Trump will include electronics again and put higher taxes for other countrys

[NathanDavis]

because... money talks

and he was told do it... simple

his campaign was funded by private sectors too, as much as any other politician

[DryGermanGuy]

I already wrote in another question, Trump has no damn consistent or coherent policy whatsoever. He madly reacts and changes course to whatever drama jumps in front of him.

[exitseven]

I guess he is used to working like that in his business. I guess he has a reason and maybe it really is a matter of national security.

[DryGermanGuy]

I bet. After all, we do know that real estate is known to erratically jump around all over the map and change forms. Right, homey?

[Spencer10]

Well it kind of indicates he may not be totally committed to his plan... a sign of weakness perhaps? If Iphones double in price he knows there will be outrage... I wonder if the Chinese are exempting Soybeans?

[exitseven]

good question. I doubt it. That is funny about iPhone outrage but thinking about the people that buy iPhones it maybe true.

[Spencer10]

Historically the USA tends to be outlasted by adversaries. Democracies are prone to this problem since public opinion matters. China does not have this problem. Think Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. All the enemy had to do is cause the USA enough pain and wait till public opinion turns and they win. Same principal here.

[exitseven]

@Spencer10 Yes, that is what happened in Viet Nam. The thing is I think that the protesters were right. We really had no stake in the war and it just made defense contractors wealthy and got our kids put in body bags.

[lightbulb27]

I suspect we cannot produce them for quite a while, so not attacking those items. until can get elsewhere, it's all china or taiwan.

probably create a lot of inflation too... that be bad.

[AviatorTom]

Many of the chips used in military hardware, notable aircraft and avionics, are made in the Far East, and that includes China, so it makes sense to allow chips to be traded without huge tariffs.

[LiamS95]

The largest chip and highest quality chip manufacturers are Samsung and Toshiba and neither of them are in China

[TrueConfection]

Good question, but back when import taxes were the norm there was an exemption on “technology”. I agree about the security though!

[exitseven]

Yes, I heard that again today. Maybe he imposed the tariff and one of his cabinet expressed some concerns about national security.

[HighValue]

It is because the new Nintendo Switch 2 is coming out soon, and he doesn't want to be blamed for Nintendo's greedy prices (that were announced before the teriffs were anyway).

[andreasderjuengere]

... because he does not fully understand what ''electronics'' do?

After all, he's an old chap.

[msc545]

Mostly because withou the Chinese, there would be very few computers available. The US is too busy making war materials to bother with making computer parts.

[Ariesman81]

Apple promised more investment into the U. S. Is it possible he's lightening the restrictions because of compliance?

[Anonymous]

He probably heard them say on the news that to make an IPhone in the United States would raise the cost of it to $7200.00😆

[DrPepper12]

His tech bro donors told him to.

[Anonymous]

Maybe he likes Chinese electronics.

[robocop666]

inflation would destroy public opinion