I feel like now a days because of how liberal society is there's just zero intention when it comes to relationships/dating, people treat their fellow humans like commodities, due to dating apps both men and women have access to a larger pool of potential partners than ever before; therefore many just have a this mindset where instead of building a relationship they run away at the first perceived red flag because they could just talk to someone else as quick as that.
From my personal observations simply studying my peers, a lot of people now a days are just ok with either spending their early 20s sleeping around or they’ll date a rotation of people casually with zero plans for the future because they’re “figuring themselves out”, afraid of serious commitment, or a mix of the two.
I fear if we continue down this route we’ll really only get more broken as a society cause seriously how is this type of mindset making anyone happy?
Do you think liberal attitudes on sex/relationships are ruining society?
There is a problem about people treating others like products or disposable sex toys, but linking the phenomenon to the liberal attitudes towards sex misses the mark by a long shot. The culprit is, in the end, social media and its ties with profit and greed.
Social media has changed the way we treat strangers. The 2010's and, up until now, the 2020's have been a whole big reprise of the 1980's on steroids. No wonder trump made a comeback in this societal context: he's a fucking dinosaur who'll forever be trapped in that era.
The 1980's were all a big mess of narcissism, look-at-me attitudes, success and fast cars above all. People back then rejected en masse the anti-consumerism, the liberal dreams and the search for meaningful experiences of the 1960's to embrace conservatism and plastic.
Social media promotes an image of people. Not who they are: not their flaws, their minds, nor their dreams and hopes. It promotes the idea that one has to be rich and successful, beautiful, surrounded by hundreds of people, in his/her late teens or early twenties to even have a chance at being considered attractive.
Back in the 1980's, one competed with the few boys or girls who were part of their social circles to get dates. Now one is competing with the whole fuckin' planet to get a scrap of attention from people they don't even know and never will meet.
Social media sends the message that you suck if you're not popular on it or, on the other hand, that you deserve everything if loads of people compliment you.
People are also openly hateful, petty, frustrated on social media in a way that they probably wouldn't be in person.
All of these elements generate resentment, entitlement, objectification, narcissism and standards that are impossible to match or maintain for anyone, beautiful or not.
It creates a society were people's worth is based on their image and their success: which are, in the end, the most superficial and worthless things that exist.
It creates a society in which people feel entitled to date supermodel chicks, millionaire muscle guys or, basically, perfect human beings in appearances, which is all that matter anymore anyway..
Worse: it creates the illusion that perfection exists and that one will find it if he/she keep scrolling and swiping.
But they won't because it doesn't exist. So they'll all keep on treating the many human beings like grocery stores food samples, always looking for the BBD that will most likely never come (get it? haha).
It's amplifying the sociosexual dimorphism that exists in humanity normally. Women can pick and choose who in a buffet like game where they control the marketplace for access. Men on the other hand experience this and realise there is a game being played and are reticent about giving themselves too deeply to women. It's making the mating ritual a more inhuman place as well as less loving. Like you say it's commodifying people as human capital, the root behind what feminism was all about. Bringing more willing, enthusiastic and grateful workers into the workforce without needing to consider the workforce formerly providing that human capital. The result, lower wages and benefits as well as less job security so they are winning it all the way to the bank.
A solution to this would be to encourage a two role household where there is a provider who does the earning in the rat race and a householder who creates a home for the pair and family where comfort and calm from the storm of commercialisation of humanity. Notice neither role needs to be gendered and the individuals can be content that their needs be met as long as they choose that pathway. Let men be oppressed in the home tied to the kitchen and bedroom and women go out to the job market and support these househusbands OR reverse the role for old fashioned arrangement, that way home life is given as much prominence as working.
Live to work or work to live is a choice we should ALL make
Liberals hate capitalism but try to capitalize intimacy due its reduction to a trade or negotiation asset. Their ideology is of course dedicated with being opposite to religious right that made intimacy over centuries to taboo topic, while brothels prospered on the same street as churches. At the end both approaches are wrong. Current access to different media through our information time society amplifies this destructiveness even more. Sexuality and intimacy arouses automatically a lot of emotions, this is one of the reasons why left and right uses it as manipulation tool to push their agendas.
I don't think sex and politics can be measured in any way. What is a "liberal attitude" toward sex and relationships? What is a conservative attitude towards sex and relationships? If that means pro-life, and you are for guns in the hands of people to kill, then that is called hypocrisy in my book.
Just for clarification there is a difference between liberal and being a leftist.
Classicalliberalismis about having the freedom to choice to do whatever you want. Marry who want to marry. Smoke what you want to smoke. Hook up all you want.
But the leftists don’t want a liberated society. They want top down authoritarian control in pursuit of some sort of deranged “utopia”. But leftist thought leaders are really power hungry sociopaths who use the lie of “equality” and “freedom” in pursuit of a society they want ti control and control.
Anyway back to your original question. You are 100% right about young people being led astray with the false promise of “freedom” which ultimately leads to misery and depression.
And the original sin is modern feminism. It’s the young women who are fully embracing all the leftist ideology and all its lies about “equality and so called freedom.” They are much more emotionally impressionable to that crap. And it’s harming men and ultimately harming women the most.
@blackeagle007 Americans don't know what left-right even is, because of how endoctrinated they are about even thinking an alternative to current regime
In the rest of the world, left is marxist, revolutionary thinking that wants Robespierre's revolution to emerge in a greater form to free humanity from shackles of class divisions, established order and feudal oppression
In US, left is just thought of post-constructivist, post-modern agenda. Which actually was created by French thinkers like Foucault, Derrida and Sartre to destroy marxism
I think you have very good insight for your age. Just for some perspective though people were saying the same things in the 1970s when relationships will be coming more liberalized and there was a so-called "sexual revolution" happening.
People were wondering if relationships were changing and in a sense to use your excellent characterization becoming more of a commodity.
Recognize that this was decades before the internet existed. I'm not suggesting that the internet didn't make relationships even more commoditized, but just noting that this question was in the air long before the internet existed.
I think that anything that dehumanizes personal interaction, whether it is having intimate relationship with a body rather than a soul or becoming words on someone's phone screen rather than a face to face meeting of the minds which is what humans were designed for degrades human interaction as it was meant to be.
Getting back to you a question, so yes I think that these behaviors, that seem to have been the fad for these last decades degrade society.
Nonetheless, when it comes to an intimate relationship we don't need "people" we just need one person who can break from the mold. And there are people who can do that still.
Agree 100%. People have been made into commodities like online shopping. My belief is that the tech companies invested a lot in research on human behaviour manipulation to make us dependent on instant gratification and break our attention span with all those reels and shorts and swipe. Everything in the name of capitalism and profit making. The dumber you make the people, the easier it is to make them spend money. Convenience and laziness have been capitalized and what human would not want fulfillment 10 times easier?
Relationships are not made because they are not instant and we have gotten used to getting everything instantly. Our cognitive processes for extended interactions and emotional/ intellectual investment has eroded in favour of very limited and bare minimum interaction. Actual active dialogues have been replaced by passive posts and comments (such as these). Bonding has been replaced by outrage. Keyboards have become a weapon to attack instead of a tool to build companionship.
The hook-up culture used to be confined to communities, events and when going through a phase, but it has spread into everyday life beyond those avenues.
There is a very small percentage of youngsters who stand far clear of this and who want to truly build a relationship the natural organic way and not as a digitalized connection. Wherever they are, I hope they stay true although few.
Their opinions are Irrelevant to me how they think as well as feel does not dictate my life and there is enough sane people to stand up when they come attacking.
I’ve noticed narcissistic liberal women want the benefits of traditionalism but don’t want any of the giving just the taking. Such as they can have standards for men. They can want a man making so much money, whose so tall, etc… Body shaming men for having small penises or being short. Stuff you can’t control but if they’re overweight it’s not okay for men to have standards when they have full control over it.
I notice those who have the highest standards have the least to offer. The type of people they want tend to pick over them they feel entitled to who they want but don’t want others feeling entitled to them.
Just like incels want like bombshell beautiful women who take care of themselves when they never seen a shower in months.
Eh... probably not ruining society, but the attitudes don't seem to be doing people many favors. Sexual liberation basically doesn't seem to have had the effect people intended.
I can tell you in my own experience, for example, that I basically haven't had luck trying to meet people organically. It's not like I can't get dates. The problem is that everyone is so guarded, everyone has unresolved personal bullshit that they refuse to confront, everyone wants to get as much as they can for as little effort as possible in return. Modern dating has devolved into signing up to be someone's emotional punching bag on the off chance they'll have sex with you. It's just exhausting.
Yup, I am sure it's worse than been able to kill your wife when she didn't have a boy like you wanted.
Yup it's today that's much worse that's for sure. Liberals have totally ruined it, women used to be useful doormats now they are so free to pick multiple men and sleep with them how bad.
Because this is the Internet I have to state I am been sarcastic obviously. Weird women tricking themselves to somehow think the past was better go get a time machine or read some history books.
I’m not arguing that it’s much worse nor am I romanticizing the past once in this post so not sure where you got that from. I’m saying when we’re so liberal to the point we have the mindset of weed smoking hippies that have a “do whatever, who cares” mentality in life is really destructive. Our choices and actions as individuals always ended up effecting society - I’m libertarian myself so in practice I really don’t care if people want to sleep around and do whatever but I do care about how encouraging that type of behavior will negatively effect society
Well the problem is you said Nowadays which the correct assertion of is implication of that the past was better. And mention people treat each other like commodities as if that's new, the truth is it's always been that way and was worse in the past when it comes to it.
You also stated is this ruining society... As if society was great in the first place and was not ruined before. All this is where I got the idea of you thinking the past is better, because that's what all this implies.
And you'll notice how others here immediately say 'Removing Traditional Values' the people agreeing with you also... Think the past was better. As where do such values come from and what were they really?
This type of behaviour been encouraged is the only stopping force to those who want traditional values to come back.. And sane people especially women should know which they would rather have. The world is not perfect so yes it does kinda have to be one or the other. Otherwise the side that stops pushing loses.
there is no “correct implication” you assumed I had a certain position on something to which I clarified I do not hold so you’re arguing something that has nothing to do with the point I’m asserting.
I do believe more “traditional” values are beneficial for society because promoting healthy long lasting relationships promotes the growth of stable children that will grow into stable contributing members of society. I say this as someone who was raised in a single mother household so I know first hand the negatives that come from being raised in a broken home.
It really doesn’t have to be one side of the extreme. There needs to be a middle ground at some point otherwise we’ll end up nowhere, it’s also insanely pretentious of you as a man to imply that any ‘sane’ woman is a woman that agrees completely with your viewpoints.
Yes there is because that's exactly what Nowadays means in this context. Okay so you do agree with sexist traditional views in the past and want a worse life for yourself got it. Don't know why you denied it then confirmed it, as your point stands you yet again aruge for traditional values...
There is no middle ground between sexism, sexism is just sexism and it's bad. And conservative traditional values were sexist it's not hard to understand. Which if you do and still want that then yes I think that's illogical reasons which only a insane women would have as they have nothing to gain by this. Now if your man at least then one has a reason which is to slave women for their benefit. It's awful but at least I can see why and how he would believe that's a benefit for himself.
yes and no in truth every rule can backfire on us every single additude can to for instance some people are so die hard catholic they would rather kill then get a divorce. In truth its a big problem but your not thinking about how to solve it your thinking about why its there so what am i getting at? im so glad you asked what i am getting at is you have the right mindset now you just need to think what is the root of the problem and then how we can solve that i realize your asking this rather than telling me but i just think its important to realize that it is ruining it but thats not why its being ruined its being ruined because parents are immature then there kids learn that then two kids grow up and have casual sex and then we repeat
Does seem like modern society values a lot of sex with whoever you want more than a stable relationship/marriage though. Make of that if you will.
Sex used to be reserved for marriage, now a lot of people sleep around with people they don't even know the name of. Makes sex kind of seem less special. Sort of like eating pizza for every single meal several times a day versus just eating pizza once a week or so.
This does greatly increase the chance of STDs though. Sleeping around with a lot of people equals a greater chance to spread. Especially if they're not using proper protection.
What you are witnessing is the 80s the 90s 2000 and so on. It was more Discreet back then. No everything you buy It's made to be broken so you buy a new one and this is The mentality of this generatif. It's broken, walk away. Did you know one
It's really sad because honestly they're missing out on something very good and one day woman is only want what she wants when she wants it. ... all them boys are goingbto becwishing in one hand and. _______ with the other
But you are right I mean look at every thing it's all going to a place we know it's not right but know is doing any thing about it ..
Someone needs to start. Little people of America group Is that a growth from all 50 states? With so many people behind that group things would get changed things would get better
Who the hell says we live in a "liberal" society? Congress, the courts, the White Wash House, just about every legislature in society, AM radio, TV, Hollywood, and the internet are all controlled by the delusional right wing.
Funny how liberals/leftists are being targeted here as if they were the only ones who engaged in any kind of sexual deviation. The fact is that rightists/conservatives make FAR more headlines when it comes to such deviation. Everybody knows it. All you need do is to watch TV news or to open up a newspaper.
"due to dating apps both men and women have access to a larger pool of potential partners than ever before"
let me start off by saying No, only women have this luxury. the only men who have the same access are those who look like Brad Pitt.
till then to answer your question, yes, liberals are at fault for this. they are obviously programmed by leftist and the left only wants to corrupt society especially in the west even further because they know that a corrupted society is far more easier to control than a strong stable one
@chocolatetwopointo only we men can opinion on that. if you are not a man youself then you know nothing about our struggles so your opinion remains invalid in this subject
I think that the polarizing effect that liberal conservative tribalism is what is currently killing our society. I think we are slowly being herded in control through fear and hatred. Specifically to divide us the average person. Because if we ever got together then we would be a real danger to the power elite. They don't belong to parties and their identity politics. they control them to control us.
11.3K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
It's nothing to do with liberalism or dating apps, kiddo.
Bad parenting is to blame - or lack of any parenting - in most cases. If you were to ask most kids what they're up to, it would be games, drink, and time wasting.
You think such a kid is going to know what relationships and civic society is about?
I think decreasing living standards ruin society, I think poverty, lack of supporting a family with waged labour, lack of social mobility, lack of quality education, lack of national values that go beyond lifestyles and religion ruin society.
Stop focusing on other people's holes and ask questions that really matter!
Most probably natural selection will solve the problem you're hinting at. It's always those able to survive, in whatever social niches and circumstances, that will remain in the long term.
Isn't ultimately everything about living creatures only about reproduction? It is not because we are here at this moment of history that evolution will stop.
Very mature and timely question for someone of such tender youth. It COULD be a problem if it develops into a crutch if emotional avoidance BUT diversity of choice & liberty to pursue those choices are also good for the well adjusted crowd. Great question!!!
Treating humans as commodities isn't a liberal nor republican idea, that's an individualism and capitalism related concept, independent from progressive and conservative framework. It's connected to the political philosophy of freedom, where an individual is a central figure, at the expense of the collective.
So it's quite amusing to blame liberals for a philosophy that is in fact deeply rooted in USA's spirit.
I think people not being able to accept what other people do with their lives is none of their business and doesn't require them to change who they are is ruining conversation and ruining our ability to coexist in society.
People are way too nosy and worried about what other people believe despite having the right to express themselves differently. I think what ruins society is people focusing on things like this instead of real economic issues that affect the majority of us.
It actually makes a lot of people happy because they can really find the person who is the best fit for them. Before now, in Gen X, I would never have found my girlfriend. She's 5 years older than me and we moved in different circles. If we hadn't been part of the same group (which didn't exist until 1987), we'd never have met.
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Yep, 100%. The pendulum swung way too far to the left, and society has been damaged in many ways as a result. But it's changing. The pendulum stooped it's leftward "progress" and has started moving back toward sanity, albeit very slowly.
Marriage is the building block of a society and the longer liberal morality and so called free love persist, the worse it will be for everyone. The old ways weren't perfect but they stood the rest of time and on average people were more fulfilled and content in life.
People won’t like my opinion. But I think women destroyed it by being too feminist and independent. Women don’t need men now. Sure social media messed up the game. I lost faith in the dating game and gave up. Now women like men only if they’re super attractive or rich. I don’t want a girl that wants me for money
Ruining it for who? Men who can't attract a partner because women are able to live independently now, instead of being dependent on a man to support them?
Puritanism is at the core of every attitude towards sex in the United States. The shame of having sex period, alongside the shame and denouncing of sex with anyone other than the opposite sex. It’s a direct result of having puritans socially exiled from England following the actions of John Felton, Oliver Cromwell, and Hugh Peter as they organized the treasonous assassination of King Charles I. They brought with them their extremist religious views that went on to influence our nation and its attitude on anything even hinted to be debaucherous or hedonist, including outlawing the celebration of Christmas because it led to parties.
Thanks for the history lesson but you’ve still failed to engage with any of my points so I’m not sure what you wanted to achieve through commenting that
Nahhh no unplanned births ever happened in the past nor spread of diseases... It wasn't actually worse back then due to lack of protection and lack of vaccines and cures...
That can't be true! (I do love sarcasm sorry not sorry)
Yes. It has gotten weird. In so many ways. And it's more than just sexuality, but i no longer in good conscious can vote for anyone preaching this mindset
It's funny. The stats say people are having less sex with fewer people compared with previous decades. But I think your observation that the substance in relationships is harder to find is an interesting observation.
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