Is Stan right? Is speech all or nothing AS FAR AS POKING FUN AT? Let's avoid the criminal aspects but discuss the SOCIAL aspects? like comedians?

Question

WhiteSteve · Accepted Answer

In a perfect world, yes…. but we’re far from that point.

I give a lot of leeway to comedians, that’s a separate space. I know Dave Chappelle always says “I’ll never apologize for anything I say on stage, because this is comedy and it’s my job.” I agree with that MOSTLY.

But here’s the biggest thing. It’s ok to punch up. It’s not ok to punch down. A lot of jokes, how funny it is depends a lot on WHO is saying it. I’m one of those guys who hits the dangerous trifecta of white, male, and straight. I’m almost ALWAYS in a position where my punches would have to be aimed downwards, whether the butt of the joke is people of color, women, or the LGBTQ community. It’s not really cool for ME to talk that kinda shit, because I hold power dynamics over them in our society, whether I like it and embrace it or don’t.

I’m not afraid to make jokes, but it’s gotta be the right ones. Example: I play pick-up hockey with a bunch of guys who are all gay and play in an all-LGBTQ league. There are some hockey jokes I could and couldn’t make.

In hockey, the open space between a goalies legs is called “the 5-hole”…. an inappropriate joke would be to say “Hey Mark…. you going 5-hole on some dudes this weekend?” I don’t know the guys THAT well to make that joke and not come off as disrespectful.

But conversely, there’s a role some hockey players play or are defined as, “a grinder”, not necessarily the most skilled guy, but he goes hard and gives his all and does a lot of the less-glamorous dirty work on the 3rd or 4th line. When they told us they were all in a gay league (their jerseys are a unicorn head on a rainbow striped shield and they’re called “The Pride”…. it was pretty obvious🤣), I DID crack a joke, and said “if there’s not a team in your league called ‘The Grindrs’, with no ‘e’…. then I just wouldn’t know what to believe in anymore.”, referencing Grindr, essentially Gay Tinder, haha. And that was received well, uproarious laughter. It’s not personal, it doesn’t make light of their lifestyle (for lack of a better word…”lifestyle” insinuates a conscious choice), it doesn’t have that air of being based on the sexual aspect of a relationship and making gay sex out to be “different” or “deviant”…. it’s just an appropriate reference to a dating app that’s homophonic (that’s kinda funny😂) with a hockey term.

Some jokes are innocuous, some are harmful and/or insulting. And the problem is that “oh, relax, it was just a joke” is one of the most prominent cop-outs for people to say something that’s not cool and then turn it on the person they’ve offended if it’s taken poorly. A lot of times it wasn’t just a joke.

Here’s my thing, cuz I gotta get going here…. I live by a code of “Don’t let your tongue get your teeth knocked out.” One thing I really don’t respect is when people expect “freedom of speech” but also expect “freedom from social repercussions.” Don’t hide behind laws and social contracts to be an asshole and avoid payback for it. Say what you want, but don’t be shocked if you get laid on your back. That’s how this works, we, the people, police this stuff, it’s usually not a legal matter.

I was watching a clip from Saturday Night Live the other night, and the punctuating joke was “Shut your gay ass up.” And it was hilarious. I think there’s a misconception out there that most left wingers would freak out about that, but I don’t think that’s the case at all. In it’s context, it worked. But I think there’s a difference between saying it in that skit vs one kid saying it to another in a classroom or something.

I think the danger comes in everyone considering themselves an amateur comedian when they want to say something offensive, and giving themselves unauthorized comedic license.

Is it annoying to police and be policed? Yes, for sure. And it’s tough to define the lines of what’s offensive or not, who can say it or not, etc. We’re also not all wearing our respective labels. Some stuff is apparent to the naked eye, some isn’t. As with most things, it comes down to the “energy.” I think most of us can read the energy and intent behind any alleged joke. But I think a lot of people think they’re better at camouflaging “jokes” than they are.

Its tough, because I love comedy, I love edgy and offensive humor…. but I have to remember everyone else isn’t me, and isn’t in the more powerful social positions I’m in solely by default, and offensive “humor” to me might just be downright offensive to them, because the joke hits home for them, while I listen from the sidelines.

I’ll always remember Indian-American actor Kal Penn (Van Wilder, Harold & Kumar), via also Indian-American comedian Aziz Ansari in his monologue at a live show, talking about the “new” objection to the Apu character on The Simpsons. “People ask: ‘Why has this been going on for thirty years, and no one had a problem with it til now?’ Well…. we’ve always had a problem with it. We just weren’t given a voice to be heard until now.”

So any time I catch myself unnecessarily annoyed by that sort of thing (quick sidebar…. hand up: I enjoy Native American sports mascots😅 I get why it’s a problem, I’m just saying I enjoy the imagery, in a vacuum…. and change if you want to, like I said, I get it, but come up with something better than “The Commanders” or “The Guardians”, for fuck sake. Mascots should be ferocious animals or warlike groups of people. If the people are out now, fine, but whatever happened to “The Wildcats?” Keep it simple, stupid😝 Cleveland’s “Chief Wahoo” was DEFINITELY not fuckin’ cool though, holy shit😱)…. sorry, I’m back, lmao, so on occasions when I get irked about people objecting to jokes or whatever else, I try to remember I’m a guy with nowhere to punch but down and straight ahead. Lennox Lewis, haha, 6’6 out here. Not everyone is in my seat, so when they talk, I make an effort to listen and understand.

Honestly, though, at least here in America….. WAY bigger fish to fry than word policing. I’ll ENERGY police all day, everyday, but we’re in a fucking tailspin, so that kind of thing isn’t really on my radar. I’m more worried about actions and just this negatively-trending culture we have in America.

DJB72 · Accepted Answer

Given that it's generally humourless fuckers that try to cancel comedy I think self-appointed woke "guardians" of what it's "offensive" to say (The View, for example) should be silenced.

Or fired from a cannon. Whichever gets a bigger laugh.

Crimsyjo · Accepted Answer

I don't know about distinctions - it's more about context that makes something ok or not ok. Like a Muslim comedian making jokes about his own race is generally accepted over a white person doing so. And a gay over other gays etc. Also if someone is in a relevant crowd so and all male group might think it funny roasting women but put one woman in the group and she might get offended and say it's not ok.

So? Is it never ok but just accepted or not accepted based on the context and audience? Hmm. It would be very dull to say that. Humour itself often depends on roasting people but truthfully - pointing out the flaws or stereotypes. Its the grains of truth that makes people laugh to accept and agree to and in comedy in particular makes something funny over insulting.

Friendlybro79 · Answer

It's ok to legally. No one is free from consequences though

exitseven · Answer

Anything that makes fun of liberals and their twisted view of life is fair game.

Dongie · Answer

True enough but there is a time and place to consider.

Likes2drive · Answer

Kill Kenny😊 actually you take the risk of consequences later so it’s up to you

fish5505_87 · Answer

I general, it's not that far off.

Is Stan right? Is speech all or nothing AS FAR AS POKING FUN AT? Let's avoid the criminal aspects but discuss the SOCIAL aspects? like comedians?

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