Thing that were once regarded as shameful and immoral people now treat and even encourage as perfectly normal and acceptable in society. Even as a source of pride.
Obesity.
Cheating.
Stealing
STDs
Sexual immorality
Parential alienation
Dishouring parents.
Lying.
Hating your neighbour
Selfishness
You name it, if its legal its acceptable without shame.
Humility and striving for improvement, yes. Regret of the past, no. ﾠ
I agree that people need to have humility, shame, and self awareness to navigate this life.
If more people had a sense of humility, shame, and having self awareness looks in the mirror of how they talk, treat, and see people in their community then they would course correct before making a stupid blunder down the road that seriously hurts not only themselves, but the people around them.
In order to function in this world, you need to have a head on your shoulders. Not only that, but know how to use your instincts, mind, and body with it. Full stop.
Only things I disagree with is obesity, STDs, and lying as things that need ‘shame’.
Obesity, some people are put in an environment when young where obesity can become addictive. Food addictions are out of control and even when they seek therapy, help, and aid / support, they can fall right back into it.
STDs, you can’t prevent that easily. Yeah people will go, “just don’t have sex” I would say if you are in an area with no jobs and need to put food on the table you might sell your body or if your parents didn’t teach you about sex and just pounded it as “Satanic” then you wouldn’t learn the importance of protection, planning, birth control, and especially not how STDs are caught / spread about other than it being something of sex or not hearing it at all which ‘old fashioned rigid’ households are known to do rather than having a productive conversation that health class teaches.
Lying, I believe in some cases lying is good. When there is an elderly patient dealing with symptoms of confusion, it is a good strategy to lie / shift focus to help them through it especially something as serious as Dementia or Alzheimer’s.
Other than those, pretty much nailed it on the head.
STDs are caught and spread by promiscuous sex with multiple people. There are no real protections for them.
Obesity is basically overeating to excess, that's not the same as being overweight. Today we are promoting obesity as normal but really the strain it puts on healthcare, the environment and food distribution is shameful. Gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins after all.
Speaking of STDs, my father met Babe Ruth in Windsor a century ago just before his twelfth birthday. The Babe gave Dad and two of his buddies ten bucks each (about 130 dollars Greenback$ in 2025 money) to help him tote his suitcases to his suite at the Prince Edward Hotel, then one of Windsor's two big downtown hotels along with the Norton Palmer Hotel, both long-razed. Exactly a century ago today, June 1,1925, Ruth made Yankees debut after his recovery from his, err stomach ache.(When I was 14, Dad told me Ruth had three STDs, one short of Kid Rock's four, but penicillin, which prolonged Ruth's life, though he died of nasopharnyx cancer at age 53 Aug.16,1948, was then in its infancy).
@beefcakebradybatson Fascinating story, really lucky for your father and his buddies to have met such an amazing Baseball legend. Never knew he had 3 STDs or Kid Rock’s 4.
Well firstly I don’t agree with everything you have included on your list , but maybe the lest has been inflated in size to make a point or perhaps it’s just different perceptions.
To answer your question though , no shame is still very much alive and well in today’s society but likely has become less prevalent for few different reasons. People re increasingly recognised for their individuality and right for self expression and to “go against” social norms and construct. This self empowerment if you like , removes any shame. People are increasingly sharing and “over sharing” on social media , this filters to all which then changes perceptions on what should be “private” reducing the feeling of shame because well if “they do it , then why should I feel guilt or shame “ . Additionally and generally speaking people are applauded for boldness and authenticity which directly competes with any feeling of shame that may come from thoughts or actions , because they choose to see it as them being true to themselves and authentic even when it’s just a front to change how they are seen.
Shame is very much still there though. I only have to mention “ relationship flags “ and “toxic shame “ and everyone will know what I’m pointing at. As a society many feel it’s their right to openly judge of what is acceptable or not and what is toxic … this very act attempts to “shame “ those into being , acting or communicating differently.
So no , while shame may have become less visible publicly , it’s very much still there shaping people’s behaviors.
Oh honey, this works has no shame. Shame is gone gone gone. People are sleeping around, having 5-10 baby daddies and baby mamas, STDs, some of the females are walking around looking like prostitutes, men walking around her looking like female prostitutes, cheating, homewreckers who are proud to be homewreckers. This world is going to hell in a hand basket
I agree.
Opinion
38Opinion
As someone originating form a small Mediterranean country where shame is alive and well I always hated it growing up
I thought people self inflicted restrictions and complications in life
But as an adult living Western Europe I’m realizing that the old geezers back home were onto something
Their lives are simpler because they are raised with strict values and shameful reprimand
That being said I still think “whoever isn’t paying my bills can kiss my ass with his or her opinion about me”
Yeah, stds, cheating, obesity etc are still considered shameful.
But what you fail to understand is shame is based in social norms and societal morality, when both of those shift with time and location and individuals.
You also gotta think, bathing was once considered shameful. As was anatomical knowledge. based on human biology, talking against the church, owning a Bible in English, talking too much etc. Heck, in some cultures even now, women aren't supposed to voice their opinions, so to them, you're being deeply shameful.
Others have attempted to shame me for trying to live a moral Christian life you know choosing to save myself, be a mother, be a wife, not sleep around, going to mass etc but the thing is none of those things are shameful so I couldn't be shamed. Others were projecting on to me their own shame.
No they were ashamed about their own lifestyles which was why they were trying to push it on me.
There are two kinds of shame. One is healthy, and missing in society. The other is so toxic the devil uses it constantly.
First is being ashamed for doing a bad action and regretting doing it. Wishing you could fix it. This is healthy.
Second is being ashamed for doing a bad action and feeling like you are less of a person or worthless because of it. That it is an indictment against who you are. The devil always tries to define us by our worst mistake because he knows it makes us act in terrible ways.
m Ah the catholic love for shame, a long lasting story lol
It's funny you chose that GoT scene as an illustration because it casts doubts on how literal/serious your opinion is. Since this chapter of the show reflects upon the societal hazards created when giving power to fundamentalists.
Assuming you're serious then, I can only distrust religious speeches like yours, because I heard them a thousand times and they're all based on the same pattern. They're praising rules over people, preaching, supposedly, the good. But in the end it's all about rules, relating and understanding people doesn't matter in such speeches, it's just an obsessive dream of rules, rules and rules. In other words, inhumane philosophy.
And it all began with this deceitful taste for humility and charity, a malicious way to hide one's dream to control people
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To be fair she cheated on her husband with her brother and had 3 children by her brother, then she had her husband killed and her husband's bastard children killed. Is all of that not shameful or do you apluad incest and murder?
It's a 18+ fictional story. By design, the GoT chapter you refer to is not made to be literal, it's made to make us think about geopolitics, religion, fundamentalism and power. Not to reinvent the wheel by saying that incest and murder is essentially wrong.
I think its meant to show how cersi's interference and trying to use religion for her own purposes almost led to her downfall
That would be the surface level for me, I found the social commentary about fundamentalism way more interesting
I've said before this is why Trump gets away with all that he does. It's because of where we're at as a society now. I'm not political. I'm neither for nor against Trump. But I think anyone who is honest with themselves will admit he says a lot of inflammatory 💩. Trump said famously during his first election, "I could shoot a guy in the middle of the street and I wouldn't lose any votes". No way would a presidential candidate have been elected if he'd said this 40 years ago. But people let it slide because we don't hold our elected officials to any standard anymore.
The only thing that is important anymore is Money, power, influence, likes, swag, rizz.
I figure I probably only got a couple decades left in me on this ball of dirt circling the sun. And the direction where headed as species I'm kind of glad I won't live to see past that.🤦♂️😆
It is kinda surreal that you're grouping those things together. Cheating and STDs are nasty, sure, and for all that Lying is horrid it is also the entire basis for human society... but why take issue with the rest?
Having a bit of extra weight isn't something to be ashamed of.
Stealing is only a problem if you're stealing from your peers or family.
"Sexual immorality" is meaningless nonsense.
"Parential" and "Dishouring" aren't even words. But parents are just ordinary humans in any case. They don't warrant special treatment.
Neighbours are generally shit, so it simply makes sense to hate them.
Selfishness is an absolutely necessary and unavoidable aspect of existence... rather it is people criticising selfishness that should be ashamed.
Obesity is gluttony. From a climate change perspective and obese person has a massive carbon footprint
It’s not actually “missing”. It’s denied and applied subjectively, and without boundaries. A fat person might justify their sloth and deny shame all while shaming a religious person. A woman might justify having a thousand sexual partners all while shaming smokers.
Too many people have a false sense of self respect, refuse accountability, and hold onto false moral superiority.
The golden rule was burned at the stake.
Too few people just live and let live.
Yes for sure but you for got the main one
It's faith with out that you have nothing and it's where we are headed as a whole.. So in a since it's something we are Destin for to weed out the bad from the good or to bring us back to that one word first FAITH no matter what we are lead to believe.
not gonna lie I have people try to put me down a ton daily and make me feel bad or ashamed of stuff that is good so I have learned to live without however I would say I am also aware of the concequences of my actions specifically ones that could impact me over the course of my lifetime
on a second note you do not need shame to realize you did something wrong although it might help a few people out in society i will say (no one specifically for those who would take offense)
I can't really say that shame is missing (because some still understand what these things mean so they dare not do them) but sometimes the society supports those people that engage in those things you mentioned earlier and since their support is coming from the society that's supposed to shame them, they have no regrets or whatsoever.
This is a good point as most people go around with no shame and do really bad things. But we are in the end times now, it is like this because the 5th trumpet has went off and the door to hell was opened letting the devil out and lose on the earth. Ever since then all people stopped using Scripture as a gide in their lives, and just focused on what they wanted and felt like at the time. This is why cheating in relationships is up so high, and selfishness is everywhere.
Basically it is shameful to act in a self serving manner and to dis others. I think most religions agree on that. It actually acts as a form of self regulation. On the down sideis the fact that it is more about societies norms than Gods. Mankind Paints itself into a corner where there is not way to act according to His will. His will is not so restrictive.
It's all full circle in the end.
It wasn't that long ago women used to scrub their doorsteps once a week. The important thing was to do it at a time your neighbours could witness you because not being observed was considered extremely shameful.
That was social responsibility in the community, its no different than clearing the snow outside your section of the pavement. Now nobody does this sort of thing and people let their dogs crap everywhere. In America its lawn maintenance, they are obsessed. There's also a social thing of talking to your neighbours
LOL, I haven't given a shit about other people's expectations or moral judgements for a long time because I decided long ago that most other people are morons for exactly the sort of thinking you just described. I really do not care if those people like me. In fact, I'd rather drive them away from me than have them wasting my time.
I didn't want to weigh in, so to speak, but this thread has gone off the rails. Your basic argument is that people should be made to feel bad about things they are going to do anyway. STIs, choices about monogamy and parental relations are not reasons for shame.
Oh, society still has shame... Just for the opposite now.. You're shamed if you wanna live a more righteous life, and not get involved in the hedonism that plagues our little comfy society today..
Religious persecution is what we're missing in today's society.
Shame is a very negative feeling and base for other emotions. It doesn't have any positive effects. People who are shamed don't learn. They feel anxiety and if they change their behavior, it isn't because they understand why. There are no positive effects at all.
It's much better to make people understand why specific social norms should be followed.
Shame is a social device that tells you not to do certain negative things like cheat, steal etc.
And that's why it doesn't work. People still cheat, steal and so on.
Yes but back in the day it wasn't seen as normal and justifiable.
It's missing in Western culture, because the West is all talk. Vietnam was the beginning of the end for them, and that's why they're getting sold out quickly now by their own elites. They can see it coming. The East is the current and future heavyweight. The West just talks about morals now, it doesn't actually live any of those values.
Then why are people fleeing east for west?
Lol unless the East stops limiting their own potential with collectivist BS, they'll never surpass the West; the breakthroughs they made in recent times is only due to piggybacking off the West, and that includes Japan by the way
Girl you ever read the comments section of any social media or meme post? Shame is alive and thriving and sometimes more entertaining than the OG content.
You forgot "all forms of faggotry"
I guess that falls under "sexual immorality"
Anyways, yes. I agree
@gwendoline Totally 100% true.
Today there is no shame, which led us to do all of that.
I think so. But not all shame is good shame.
Obesity, lying, selfishness, and hating neighbors was always in a morally grey area, but the rest that you listed yeah they used to be considered very immoral or even illegal.
Only for Women it is.
That's the problem.
Us Guys get shamed by everyone and anything.
Yes, or Trump wouldn't have been elected ONCE, let alone twice !!!
It's complicated. Shame is often used to ostracize people who behaved differently but do no harm.
Today's and every other previous society & era. Not new.
Take those female teachers who sleep with under age boys. They've no shame and believe they did nothing wrong, and are happy to get their 5 minutes of fame on talk shows.
Well we have a POTUS with no shame so you may have a point.
It exists, morality and values just changed. Shame doesn't exist where it should though.
You forgot Trump and Elon. Walk of shame for those guys definitely.
Some of what you listed, such as stealing, is not legal.
Depends how you look at it. If cities stop prosecuting or investigated is it ilegal?
I don't know places that don't prosecute theft.
u Yes, and it needs to make a comeback.
Yes, I think so... at least when it comes to some people.
Absolutely. Especially among women.
Men too. Used to be men had honour
Oh no disagreement, but things like allowing their children to become trans is strictly a female thing.. .. Same with idiot things like toddlers in tiaras, or honey boo boo.. All women..
Never mind the single mother epidemic.
But men share some blame in this too.
how is it womens fault for letting their children be happy? and how is it womens faults when men leave when they have a kid?
@chocolatetwopointo they aren't happy. Hormone replacement and genital mutilation has a negative effect on children's growing bodies and minds. Suicide amongst trans people is through the roof, mostly because they can never be the sex they want and gender reassignment at least for men is permanent and superficial.
they are tho? most people dont do it on children since they need to be 18 years old for most of that stuff. and being themselves is good for kids and makes them happy, if they feel happy playing with tiaras, who cares? shouldn't u love ur kids for whatever reason?
Unfortunately she's one of the radical left who believe mutilating children is a good thing, and who conveniently ignore the fact that the suicide rate for trans people go up astronomically post op. Women like her should be sterilized.
r u talking ab me? id love to be sterilized, i hate kids
Good remove your shit genes from the gene pool. People like you don't deserve to procreate.
thank god, i hate kids
have fun having kids that will hate you!
My kids love me, I have two in college. Nice try though.
yeah right. people who have kids who wouldn't love them for who they are, are awful parents. ”why doesn't my kids want to see me anymore” is something you’ll say in a few years
Keep telling your self that princess. Unlike leftists, we don't force idiotic ideologies on our children.
ah yes the ”my kids can only be this way and ill hate them if they’re not”
That made literally no sense. There is a difference between you and I, first, I'm a liberal, not a leftist.. And second, I don't make shitty assumptions about people's family. You know literally nothing about me and mine.
so u wouldn't love ur kid if they were trans?
I'd love them, but I'd not support transition until they were 18.
Which they both are.
well yeah no fucking shit? thats what I've been saying dipshit
I don't support fucking with minor children. As in children under 18.
You don't need to insult me dude.
did u js like ignore what i just said?
im not a dude, maybe learn how to read
I did read. I'd like to think that somewhere deep down, buried underneath all that hate, you're a good person in there. I feel sorry for you.
Stealing isn’t legal
There are legal forms of theft.
Where?
A neighbour of mine lost everything when a bank she had buisness loans got taken over and then demanded the loan be repaid, they seized the buisness she spent 10 years building and sold it off to repay the loan. All perfectly legal.
That’s repayment of a loan , yes it’s terrible but it’s different than just breaking in someone’s car and taking stuff
Yes its legal theft. It's stealing in a way that's legal. Some of the biggest theives you will ever meet rob you with a pen not a gun
Gotta love it
Shame, responsibility and respect!
No. It may be missing with some folks tho.
Yes, I say this all the time. People have no shame
Yes shame is being lost in modern society
From the very top on down in the US.
Hey now some neighbors earn the hate.
Yes pretty much and very much
No of course, is not.
It is not*
Restraint in action is more likely missing
All of the above
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