Would Charlie Kirk have benefited from gun control?

[OddBeMe]

Yes

No

[mysteriousNicholas]

Sometimes, when I think of the positives of America, I remind myself that even living in the bliss of California in a hypothetical American Nicholas alternative dimension - the scary thing is America, even California, is sadly full of guns. Guns sadly are as bad as a country full of knives or full of pitchforks - there's just so many weapons that humanity invented over the centuries, it's terrible as a species how we're not kinder, we're not safer, we're not wiser as human beings to be safety first and say yes to stricter gun laws.

[mysteriousNicholas]

It would appear from news articles in my lifetime thus far, is just that America has such a long-standing issue with firearms and that in my mind "only police officers and official military soldiers on duty, should have firearms" - some European countries even make their police officers keep the sidearms locked down in the vehicle trunk securely, so that when they patrol on foot, they're peacekeepers, an old traditional form of community policing 👀

[mysteriousNicholas]

(referring to the vehicle trunk of patrol cars)

[OddBeMe]

Yes, and when guns aren't more populace than a country's population, there is maybe 10 gun deaths. Versus the 30,000 a year in the US.

We can have a 2a, people owning weapons and hunting as a sport... along with stricter laws on attaining them. I don't know, like maybe how cars are regulated. Lol

[goaded]

Maybe. Most countries allow hunters to have rifles. It wasn't like it was some nutcase spraying bullets around a supermarket with a 100 round magazine.

If he hadn't been so dogmatically against gun control and non-white people, perhaps nobody would have wanted to shoot him, though.

[dustybiker2]

www.mediaite.com/.../

Yeah, no idea why anyone was so upset with him. He seemed such a mellow person who brought people together.

[OddBeMe]

For some reason I'm having trouble remembering all the crazy leftist gun toting assassins. Were there any?

[goaded]

Well, there was the guy who went looking for Kavanaugh, then turned himself in before doing anything.

[dustybiker2]

•snort•

[OddBeMe]

@dustybiker2 he procrastinated by hackey sack

[Sevenpointfive]

he'd be long dead before we got to that point. we'd have to become the UK. and while they are working on doing that, the citizens aren't really liking it. if they were serious about gun control, then they'd not only have guns registered but also be chipped somehow. there's a reason why we aren't there yet and may never get there. it's better than a metal detector. it would make that area of forensics almost obsolete.

if they ever even mentioned THIS, it would completely change the USA.

[OddBeMe]

Wow agreed. Yet you prob dont want guns registered like cars.

[Sevenpointfive]

but it also makes you think... why would you have a problem with your gun being chipped if it wasn't going to be used in a crime?

[AyChingao]

Maybe, but he himself actually stated the position that some gun deaths were acceptable just in case they need them to maintain other freedoms rather than have gun control. It's crazy that they are ready to name the guy "Saint Charlie" when he told his audience that "patriots should bail out" the man who beat in the head of 84 year old Paul Pelosi (Nancy's husband, and someone he disagreed with politically) and had nothing to say about the Minnesota lawmakers that were the victims of gun violence earlier this year (one, along with her husband died, the othr survived).
Meanwhile the Trumpty chumps are weaponizing this and, of course calling for violence, while claiming that they would NEVER, even though they already have on many occasions. Sadly their falsehoods will be believed by some.

[purplepoppy]

Gun control doesn't stop ever shooting but it does stop enough to make it worthwhile.

The real winner from this is Trump. He'll use it to brand the left as terrorists and justify a war.

[OddBeMe]

I hate those gun toting hippies who hate guns and want to ban them.
Wait, that doesn't sound logical...

[Kingofkings1992]

Retarded statement lol

[msmissydc]

At least he wasn't hipocritical in his last moments. Practice what you preach, shoot the supporter of tyranical goverments. Thats what he wanted right?

#thoughtsandprayers

[OddBeMe]

Wow thats dark.
I like that

[Danny_dan92]

Both of you will get yours.

😈

[OddBeMe]

@Danny_dan92 that a threat Danny? Just focus your hate on me, not msmiss, you fucks do enough to chicks.

Fucking animals like this is why mass shootings are so common

[FunkyMonkee]

No, because assholes that want to use them will still get them no matter what!
I think that, from now on, people that own gun shops and sell guns should have a sign on their front door: "NO DEMOCRATS ALLOWED!!!" Either that or, the FIRST question asked of a person trying to buy a gun should be, "Are you a democrat or liberal?" If the answer is yes, they get the bum's rush out the door!!

[OddBeMe]

Yet deaths by sniffing paint snd spray cans have plummeted. Kids can get drugs easier than alcohol. So it seems like regulations do work.

[FunkyMonkee]

I don't see how, if kids can still get drugs.

[OddBeMe]

Because prohibition doesn't work. Regulation does.

[FunkyMonkee]

No shit, Sherlock!! Remember the `20's?
So, what's your point?

[OddBeMe]

Regulate. Fcuking. Guns.

I just walked into a gun show and in texas AND found a "private sale" online. Two guns no checks.

[FunkyMonkee]

There ya go!! Anybody can get guns anywhere!

[OddBeMe]

Then. There. Are. No. Gun. Regulations.

Gotta spell it out for morons

[FunkyMonkee]

And. Then. What. Happens. Moron?

[RageBabe]

Who is he calling a moron?

[FunkyMonkee]

@RageBabe Me, but, republicans, in general.

[Anonymous]

How could we possibly know that without even having a clue if the gun used was legally obtained? If it wasn't, the answer is a resounding "no". If it was, that's not to say the shooter wouldn't have obtained one illegally if he couldn't legally. Gun control only controls legally obtained weapons.

[OddBeMe]

Vast majority are legally obtained, especially in crime. This is a 2a myth

[Opinion Owner]

Even if that is true, and I have no idea if it is or not, that has nothing to do with this situation. We're not talking about the vast majority, we're talking about this one.

[OddBeMe]

Sure and now we know the guy was gun fanatic from a repub family

[Opinion Owner]

So? None of that changes my answer. Your question can't be answered. If you re read my answer and don't just cherry pick the part you want to argue with, you'll see what I'm saying.

[OddBeMe]

Well... certainly were talking semantic what ifs. But it sounds like this kid took his parents weapons which just lying around. If there were regulations on that and cops acted quicker on guns being taken by kids like they do with cars... maybe Kirk would be alive

[Opinion Owner]

And if a frog has wings...

[Anonymous]

No. The guy who shot him would have gotten a gun either way. It's cliche, but very true... if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. And this guy doesn't come off as the law abiding type. There are half a billion guns owned by civilians in the US. You can whine about it all you want, but that ship sailed (legally) a long time ago and it ain't coming back.

[OddBeMe]

If guns are outlawed only rich outlaws would have them. But regardless, the point of gun control isn't banning. Its stemming the intolerable ease to acquire a firearm.

[Opinion Owner]

If you think only rich outlaws would have guns, you're even dumber than I thought, unless you are talking about drug cartels. But those cartels would of course supply all their peeps with plenty of guns like they do today.

[OddBeMe]

If you think common criminals (who are overwhelmingly poor which is why they're criminal) could afford a gun after making them harder to acquire... I would suggest researching supply and demand dumbass

[NoDecision]

If the government had something to do with it, then all the gun control in the world would not have saved him.

[OddBeMe]

Trump had Kirk killed?

[Anonymous]

My uncle got shot and mugged by a criminal that wasn't supposed to own a gun, it was in a gun free zone.

Hed probably have benefited from hate groups and terror organisations like antifa and blm being banned.

[OddBeMe]

And im sure the guy who wasn't supposed to have the gun bought it legally.

And the idea a sign asking people not to carry does shit

[Opinion Owner]

Seems the fbi dropped the ball

[OddBeMe]

As does the secret service. But there's no wing in the fbi devoted to left wing domestic terrorism. Lol

[Opinion Owner]

They want guns banned so they dont do their job. Virtually every mass shooter had mental health problems and was on antidepressants yet somehow obtained a gun license.

[OddBeMe]

Because. We. Don't. Regulate. Guns.

They either get them from parents, gun shows or legal private sales.

[Opinion Owner]

You need a gun license to own a gun. Just like you need a drivers license.

[OddBeMe]

Should, but not in the US of A

[OddBeMe]

I bought two guns one online and one at a show. No regs, no license, no background check

[dustybiker2]

Maybe if he was armed at the time...

[OddBeMe]

Trump was armed with 20 of the most highly trained guards in the world and a maga crazy still blew his ear offf

[dustybiker2]

They forgot the roof.

[OddBeMe]

Im not certain it wasn't motivated to give trump an election edge. The shooter successfully killed one person in the crowd and then misses the guy at the podium?

[Anonymous]

No, because A: we already have gun control, B: most gun related crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns and C: This wasn't a one off crazy person, it was a professional hitman most likely hired by or working for Israel.

[OddBeMe]

A: no
B: completely false
Emoji: it absolutely was a one off crazy kid.

[OddBeMe]

Qed...

[Opinion Owner]

Anyone who believes this shooting was a one-off crazy kid is a dang fool. Anyone with a shred of inelegance can see this kid is just the fall guy. I still stand firm in my belief that that Israel is behind the assassinating of Kirk, Netanyahu is the only leader going on various news outlets denying involvement in Kirks death.
B isn't false, it's actually accurate. The person committing the crime with a gun, a majority of the time obtained the gun illegally, even if the gun was originally obtained Illegally. If I buy a car and someone steals it and drives into a crowed of people, was the crime committed with a legal or illegally obtained car? Of course the answer is illegally obtained since the criminal illegally obtained the car.
" A significant portion of crime guns are stolen or lost from their original, legal owners. While a vast majority of firearms are obtained legally, the illegal acquisition and diversion of these weapons from the legal market, or from private sources, is the primary path through which they become crime guns."

[OddBeMe]

It always is a one off crazy guy. As much as we like conspiracies and patterns. Crazies dont have patterns. We should keep them from getting guns

[contentious]

The only thing firm about your position is the dick in your ass because you're gay as hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyd8LCjvDTQ

[OddBeMe]

@contentious least i keep my beliefs grounded in evidence

[Danny_dan92]

Yes he would’ve benefited if there was a federal mandate on an increase to school security similar to what airports got as a result of 9/11

[Pohjolan]

Possibly but that's alternative history.

The guy might have constructed a kamikaze drone instead for all we know.

[OddBeMe]

Criminals use path of least resistance. So easy to get a gun from private sale online or gun shows

[seeyounexttuesday]

After we see that you leftists kill people because a youtube video hurts your feelings, no fucking way I’m giving up any guns.

[OddBeMe]

Name a leftist gun toting killer.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Um most school shooters, every gang killing, Charlie Kirk’s killer.

[OddBeMe]

Actually no... Kirk's killer is a Utah republican
Politically motivated killers:
Cato Indtute: "Right-wingers are the second most common motivating ideology, accounting for 391 murders and 11 percent of the total... Left-wing terrorists murdered 65 people, or about 2 percent of the total"
DOJ: "80% of individuals who engaged in shootings stole guns from family members." How many liberal households are gun toters?


And

[OddBeMe]

I'll wait for your mea culpa...

[seeyounexttuesday]

From the adl? lol. Kirk’s killer was a leftist. Corrupted in college. Exactly what Charlie Kirk was trying to reverse.

[OddBeMe]

And Cato dumbass. Are they liberal bastion

[seeyounexttuesday]

You are a retard if you think a conservative would kill the star of the youth conservative movement

[OddBeMe]

(Brushes off namecalling) (confident in my research)

[seeyounexttuesday]

Confidently stupid is still stupid. And more dangerous than being ignorant.

[OddBeMe]

None of that is wrong. We have learned Kirk's killer recently embraced his gayness and did a u turn to the left side on that.
Doesn't mean no lack of weapon toting parents whom he was given the gun, or the fact he felt more emotional about a political right winger that he prob used to like.

[seeyounexttuesday]

So he was corrupted and groomed by the left. As we’ve said since the start. Thanks for playing

[OddBeMe]

No dumbass that's the opposite. He was groomed by right wing demogogues then left out in the cold and responded violently with easily acquired weapons. Fucking moron

[seeyounexttuesday]

You’re just making up nonsense. I feel bad your mom took so much Tylenol when she was pregnant with you. That and the vodka really fucked you up.

[OddBeMe]

So run outta logic again? Keep exercise that pea sized brain

[seeyounexttuesday]

There's no reason to use logic with you. You live in a fantasy world and are incapable of being truthful.

[OddBeMe]

Did Kirk's killer come from a repub family? Yes
Did the family have open access to guns? Yes
Why'd he go after Kirk? Because he felt betrayedl

[seeyounexttuesday]

And your last sentence is a lie. It's been thoroughly debunked. But you're stuck on stupid.

[OddBeMe]

No one doubts he's a crazed killer. Who had access to guns. But were his beliefs before the last year? He targeted Kirk because he was a FAN

"Utah County prosecutor Jeffrey Gray said that Robinson's mother told investigators that her son had become more political over the last year and had started to "lean more to the left, becoming more pro-gay and trans rights-oriented"

[seeyounexttuesday]

so let's type this again for others to read. he was a "fan" of Charlie Kirk - meaning "an enthusiastic admirer of a person or thing" and the solution to showing his admiration was to shoot Charlie Kirk in the neck. That's what you're going with, eh?

[DrPepper12]

In the absence of any facts about the shooter or the weapon No one can answer this.

[AyChingao]

true, but one CAN opine on the man's words, doesn't answer "who", but may give a window into "why"

[dustybiker2]

With these clowns in office. That mf is long gone.

[Anonymous]

No, it was a university campus, a gun free zone and they are typically liberalism strongholds

[OddBeMe]

Why do think its gun free?

[Opinion Owner]

It's a liberal stronghold they are all gun free

[OddBeMe]

Its actually a state law in Utah that allows guns on campuses dumbass. Research helps

[Opinion Owner]

Probably one of Soros' Nazis so they'll never be caught

[OddBeMe]

Who do nazis support? Mmm...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83WsgVnIQ8k

[Opinion Owner]

Same way as the left shirks that they were the founders of the KKK and pro-slavery

[OddBeMe]

Have anything from... I don't know.. the last 100 years to prove that?

Or shall we discuss the Democratic-Republican party versus the Whigs? Because that seems irrelevsnt

[Opinion Owner]

Whig's I recognize, these days officially called Labour but generally known once again as Nazis of the highest order

[OddBeMe]

Your knowledge of history is that of a 2nd grader.

[Opinion Owner]

My history is real as opposed to the liberal dogma of whites doing all the slavery etc.

[OddBeMe]

It literally isn't. Besides, going back 150 years to avoid nazis and kkk voting for your political party is pathetic.

[Kingofkings1992]

Nope. Gun control doesn’t mean anything is safer. It means the total opposite

[OddBeMe]

Explain Europe then.

[OddBeMe]

And Australia.

[Kingofkings1992]

Explain what exactly? Time and time again it’s been proven to you whackos that places with the least amount of gun restrictions have the LOWEST amount of gun violence. You fcks just don’t like living in reality. It’s why you have to make up all kinds of shit about Trump, because you know deep down that you cannot defeat him.

[OddBeMe]

Complete bullshit

Whole continent of Europe: 200 gun deaths a year. America: 30,000

[Kingofkings1992]

Again, as I mentioned earlier, just move to Europe instead of trying to turn the US in to it. Please

[Anonymous]

Good people never benefit from "gun control" being instituted by bad people.

[OddBeMe]

Except everywhere else in the world with 10-20 gun deaths a year compared with our 30,000

[Anonymous]

The Ukrainian girl wouldn’t have benefited from gun control. Just ask the Purple cat….

[OddBeMe]

The immigrant Ukrainian trump prob targeted for deportation?

[OddBeMe]

It is a shame all the cuts to health and homeless services that turmp McCauley thst could've hlped that ahole

[OddBeMe]

*caused

[Opinion Owner]

How would you explain her death to her parents?

[Opinion Owner]

Is there a nice way to say it?

[OddBeMe]

That we have such a wealth gap and lack of social services that crazies are walking the streets. Its not illegals killing people its citizens by overwhelming majority.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah, it's best not to tell them about the corrupt prosecutors that don't do their job.

[OddBeMe]

Not sure of that. If anything its overzealous prosecutors convicting innocent people.

[contentious]

Nope, criminals like you don't follow laws.

[OddBeMe]

Yet regulations make it harder for criminals to get shit doesn't it? Which is why we dont hand out guns with morning donuts

[contentious]

Nope. I can walk into a home depot and make a gun in 15 minutes to shoot you in the head for less than $100 if I want to. But I believe in the rule of law. Guns are easy to get and there is nothing that can stop people from getting them.

[OddBeMe]

Even if you could that would be more hoops than we have now. Can we agree on that law?

[contentious]

It's significantly easier to walk through a hardware store and purchase a couple of random items at a self checkout line unattended than it is to purchase a legal gun today.

[contentious]

If you're going to do a crime, it's easier to acquire an illegal gun, faster to acquire, cheaper to purchase, and more secure because there is no record of purchase and some hardware from a store can be easily disassembled and disposed of after the fact. If you are already breaking the law to commit murder, manufacturing an illegal firearm is the least of your concerns. What you are pushing 4 is like outlawing j-walking... You really think if someone is willing to murder someone else, that they are going to listen to your j-walking control laws during the crime?

[contentious]

*for

what in the world is with the spelling auto correct on this site... Changing words to numbers now? Wacky shit.

[contentious]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm3x-VuKXAo

[OddBeMe]

None of this is true. You can go to a gun show, or the many online gun marketplaces devoted to private sales and get a gun instantly and legally.

Where would i even go for an "illegal gun". And yeah maybe you can work up some Jason Bourne ace hardware "gun" but it won't fire 60 rounds a minute.

[contentious]

1) All of it true. 2) I don't need 60 rounds per minute to put a hole in your head. You may think you are invincible, but 1 bullet will drop you like a sack of shit.

[OddBeMe]

Your aim with a spray can nail gun prob ain't that good. You watch too many movies.

But you had a choice: being shot at with an ace hardware gun or an actual manufactured firearm? Which

[contentious]

spay can nail gun huh? Is that what I said I can make for under $100 in 15 minutes? What movie did you see that in? I wouldn't want to take a 12 gauge slug at close range to the head regardless of what kind of tube it comes out of. Either way my head would be gone.

[contentious]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI_wU69suEw

[OddBeMe]

Yeah and why aren't criminals using this ace hardware method of killing? I'll wait for answer

[contentious]

Half of murder weapons are never even recovered... You don't even know what they are using.

[OddBeMe]

Thats simply not true.

[contentious]

That is true. Somewhere between 40-60% of murder weapons are never recovered. So if we don't know what they are using, we also don't know what they are not using. That's the burden of uncertainty. We can just evaluate the round that has been fired from an uncertain source.

[contentious]

It's really all just a guessing game how many ghost guns are out there and how many people are getting murdered with them, because there is no real evidence to substantiate the claims.

fas.org/.../

[contentious]

You're on here every day trying to stop Americans from legally owning weapons which are traceable and at the same time encouraging people to own illegal weapons which are untraceable which you will never see them coming with... All your anti AR-15 bullshit makes you less safe.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KO4jaGF8eQE

[OddBeMe]

@contentious Funny the ATF studies crime gun traces from GUNS FOUND AT THE SCENE. and nothing i can find backs up your bullshit statistic.

www.atf.gov/firearms/national-tracing-center

[OddBeMe]

Untraceable illegal weapons aren't even a fraction of gun crime in America fuckhead. "Ghost guns" or 3d guns are real but criminals use the path of least resistance. Going to a gun show, private sales or fckin online in red states where guns are sold like groceries.

[contentious]

The fact that you are really bad at research doesn't make your case for you. It's easy enough for an average person to look into U. S homicide clearance rates. It's also easy to look into murders which are solved without the weapon being recovered. In reality the numbers are more stacked against your position than I let on. I'm just being conservative with my numbers. Some criminal justice studies report figures as high as 80% of firearms used in violent crimes going unrecovered.

[contentious]

If you don't have the gun used in the crime, you can't determine with certainty what type of gun it was... If a gun is manufactured illegally, then you can't track the sort of firing pin that was used if you recover spent shell casings because it won't be on record. Being that the firing pins on illegally manufactured guns are made from basic materials, they have less longevity and cost, so they are often swapped out with little consideration, meaning that you can't tie one murder to another murder by the same gun forensically... Gun control makes it harder to solve murder.

[OddBeMe]

Im bad at research yet gave you multiple citations. You give one about ghost guns which is 1% of the problem.

you're a joke. I waste time and brain cells on you

[contentious]

Cool now go cite me a study on lollipop color manufacturing, toilet paper roll size, shoe color, or anything else irrelevant to what I spoke about and see if it gets you any closer to what I said. All you did is create a straw-man to attack because you're mentally retard and incapable of staying on topic.

[OddBeMe]

No ill stick with atf. You find me some study how we ain't finding crime guns.

There is an issue with closing rates. But its way more complex and nothing about guns being "lost"
www.statista.com/.../

[contentious]

You really are slower in the head than I give you credit for. If you want to leverage ATF data, then compare gun traces per year to violent guns crimes per year and figure out what percent of guns are being submitted to the ATF out of all gun crimes. This will even be a more skewed number given that not all gun crimes are gun murders (which are harder to solve). Some gun crimes are assaults, some are attempted murder, some are robberies, some are gun trafficking, some are illegal possession, etc. So using your method of ATF data you only get lost in the woods, but even with that data the percent recovered is still very low. Homicide closure rate and specifically gun homicide closure rates are already in the ball park for the number I gave you. If you then examine the number of gun homicides that are solved without a murder weapon, then those numbers get even worse for you.

[contentious]

Just as a hint of how bad your case is, you can examine the FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table. In it you’ll find that roughly a third of murder weapons used in gun murders are undefined. This means there is not enough evidence to even determine what classification of weapon was used. It can’t even be determined if a handgun, rifle, or shotgun was used... Generally this is because a round was not recovered at the crime scene, but it could also indicate that the round fragmented and the caliber was indeterminate, or that a cross platform caliber was used in the murder. If you are stuck in a state of confusion not even knowing what type of round was fired during a murder, you obviously did not recover the murder weapon.

ucr.fbi.gov/.../expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

So in roughly a 1/3 of gun murders even the bullet is not recovered and identified properly let alone the gun.

[contentious]

Statista is also a shitty source. They get figures that are published publicly wrong all the time. It's not a credible. If you do look into gun murder clearance rates, something like the following is more applicable. Here is a study published in Criminology & Public Policy which evaluates clearance rates in Boston. The study is based on data from the Boston Police Department between the years of 2010 to 2014. The study report clearances of "43%" for "gun murders". This means over a 5 year period, 57% of gun murders in Boston went unsolved. That study was funded by a grant from the U. S. Department of Justice.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../1745-9133.12451

While murder weapons are great physical evidence in homicide cases that can tie a suspect to a murder through possible DNA and fingerprint evidence, records of purchase, and procession, they aren't even necessary to clear a murder case and aren't available in many cases.

[contentious]

If we ere to follow your rabbit trail of irrelevant data then we could determine for example in 2017 there were 337,903 gun traces. Of those gun traces according to the ATF !% are urgent traces which may include mass shootings, homicides, bank robberies, and other immediate threats to officer and public safety. We don’t know how many guns are tied to each case because more than one gun can be associated with a particular crime, thus we can’t be certain of the gun to crime ratio. But we could calculate urgent gun crimes in 2017 for example as 337,903*0.01 = 3,379 gun traces that were urgent crimes. Then from FBI data in the Expanded Homicide Data Table we know that there were 11,014 gun homicides in 2017. Even if you just compared the number of urgent gun traces to gun homicides you are still left with only 30% of guns in gun murders being traced by the FBI meaning 70% are not traced and this does not even take into account mass shootings, bank robberies, and other immediate threats to officer and public safety. This is why your reference points are irrelevant to getting to the truth. They can infer that I am right though if interpreted properly. That said I wouldn’t try to stand on your data because it’s a hodgepodge of uncertainty.

www.atf.gov/.../download