Should a person dying, particularly in an untimely/tragic way absolve them of misdeeds or sanitize their character, and change how they’re remembered?

[WhiteSteve]

I feel like death is the best thing to ever happen to some people’s legacies. As long as it’s not someone people had extreme cause to hate over historically cartoonish tangible offenses of human physical well-being, like Hitler and The Holocaust or something, it suddenly becomes a social-illegality to speak any ill of the wrongdoings of their life.

Furthermore, they become canonized, and the wrongdoings are sanitized. Defenders claim their bad behavior wasn’t what it looked like, or a hoax, or a set-up, or extortion, or we’re taking them out of context, or “they were a complicated person.” You can never call a piece of shit a piece of shit again, because “feelings” or “respect”, or just “reasons” or something. Immediate sainthood. It’s wildly irrational human behavior.

[Guyfromusa]

There definitely is a tightrope to walk between speaking your truth vs respecting the dead.

First, id point out that we belong to a culture (western) which exports everything to God or Heaven. Want to go to a better place? You go to “Heaven.” Want something good to happen to you? You pray to “God.”

I personally would stay away from such a mindset. To acknowledge that humans are imperfect is one thing. We dont find anyone ideal to work with on Earth. That doesn’t mean Earth is a horrible irredeemable place in Creation. Just means that we have more spiritual work to do here on Earth.

Now can someone atone for sinful behavior? Of course. If they wait till their last few months to live might not be enough time. At least for that particular physical incarnation.

As to how to deal with people who pass and are instantly regarded as a saint regardless of their life actions… I will use Charlie Kirks recent killing as an example.

I have heard some very divisive and unempathetic statements come from Charlie. I dont agree with him at all. With that said, I wouldn’t steer out of my way to mock his death. When you engage in such behavior its usually coming from a place of judgement or anger. I would suggest to people to spend your time doing things you love. Stay away from activities which cultivate judgement and anger. You reap what you sow.

Thats all. Just my opinion. Have a good day.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Death is the ultimate redemption, I agree. But just because they’re gone doesn’t mean they’re free of criticism. Michael Jackson may have been a great artist and philanthropist but it doesn’t change the fact that he molested a lot of kids.

[WhiteSteve]

💯, excellent example

[Chazmatazz269]

You’re just mad that only your idiot friends are buying the trash you’re selling. The jig is up, mate. Nobody wants your lies and half-truths anymore. Shove that misinformation where the sun don’t shine.
Tell you, what. Start calling out the democrat pigs you worship in your shrinking blue cult, and maybe reasonable people will take you seriously again. Until then, you’re just being ridiculous. And everyone knows it. 🤡🤡🤡🤡

[WhiteSteve]

You’re a little overly upset about my personal feelings about Kobe Bryant. Relax and have a beer, bubs.

[Staximus]

Kobe Bryant was a fucking meat sack in real life, a piece of shit human being. He used to come into a restaurant that a couple of my friends worked at. He racked up a huge bill, the manager who wanted to suck his dick comped the whole thing, and he tipped the servers absolutely nothing. The guy who's making at least 50 million a year tips nothing? What the fuck

[SeekerOfTruth007]

Nope. If the person dying was evil, they should be remembered as evil. If they were good, they should be remembered as good. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the fact it was a pig.

[WhiteSteve]

Amen

[Cidknee]

I did something I don't usually do. I read everything on the page before commenting. The things I've learned about Charlie from the left, the ghouls who hate so freely, is that i must have missed those episodes of him at the universities. I only have watched 30 or 40 so I guess where he said such things are in the few I've not seen. He always expressed the love of God for each individual who took the mic. I saw him called many horrible things yet he usually kept that smile. I don't give a shit what you freaks think of Charlie. I just can't stand to hear your lies being believed by others. Seeing another person in the dark being fed lies because thats all you have to knock him with. You know you can't just say he was bad because he spoke the truth and it interferes with your identity, sexual persuasion, or religeon or lack there of. The only way you feel you can keep knocking at Charlie is to try destroying his image. All you are really doing is making it stronger. Charlie was the best of us. And our worse is better than your best!

[Snakeyes7]

It depends on the untimely death. If it is something that is most likely a complete accident like a car crash or a very deadly disease, I don't think so.

If say this person got shot because he offered to debate on his ideas in the best faith possible, then yes. Assassinations do not prove the assassinated wrong, quite the contrary. Violence and slander is only a tool for the incompetent and the only thing I have been seeing from those who support the shooter is nothing but slander to Kirk (perfect time to do so since he can't defend himself) and further calls to violence.

I have seen things like "you're next" to Kirk's wife and kids, JD Vance, Asmongold, and who knows who else? I have no doubt Trump is on the radar of these demons too. The sky's the limit at this point.

[WhiteSteve]

Did anyone who matters say “you’re next?”, or just some rando on social media? We can find threats and dark comments all over both sides of social media, so I don’t think that’s a fair gauge of the mood of the situation

[WhiteSteve]

I agree that assissinations don’t prove anyone wrong, but I’d maybe push back against “quite the opposite.” Not proving someone wrong doesn’t mean you’ve proved someone right

[Snakeyes7]

I never tracked it personally, but apparently, there has been a shocking amount of them who are (or were) teachers or professors. People who are in charge of teaching students, possible young children. There was even a teacher in Canada who showed 5th and 6th graders the gruesome assassination video. I have no idea if the teacher supported it or not but he or she was clearly fucked in the head.

[Snakeyes7]

I suppose I could agree to a certain extent that it does not prove it right, but it is still a fallacy.

[dustybiker2]

I think Obama nailed it yesterday. We can still profoundly disagree with someone and retain the humanity and respect to the loss of life.

We are humans and have complex emotions.

On the other hand if Kirk has not had a gun aimed at him he would still be spreading his same thoughts. So no. Death should not wipe a slate clean we should learn from their mistakes.

[MemeSupreme]

no but timing matters

like i didn't like kirk but im not gonna super negatively of him rn on the off the very small chance his friends/family see it. and i guess it hits different seeing the video of him die. just feels weird

[WhiteSteve]

Yeah, I’ve been pulling the hell out of my punches as far as his case goes, I have way worse to say, but I’ll let them bury the guy first, just out of basic human respect. I’m hustling not gonna sit here and watch him become St Charlie Kirk and be told we’re “just taking him out of context.”

[WhiteSteve]

I’m hustling? That’s should be “I’m just”

Autocorrect gets worse every year, it’s unreal😂

[Anonymous]

dude, we know you're talking about Charlie Kirk here

fact of the matter is, if Charlie Kirk deserves to die because he's a "shitbag" then every one of you celebrating and making excuses for it deserve it too

[goaded]

So quoting Charlie Kirk is as bad as being Charlie Kirk and saying those things in the first place?

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded no you idiot. people are deliberately posting half-quotes to justify Charlie's death

[goaded]

No, they're posting quotes that Charlie said about other people who died, and if they left out context you're missing out the fact that no thought leader on the left celebrated his death.

By the way, there's a huge difference between disputing the role of saint the right is putting on him and the role of "extreme" yet typical "leftist" they're trying desperately to put on the killer (or even mocking the fact Kirk was just being asked about gun control when he was shot, not to mention that he said gun deaths were a reasonable price to pay for 2A) and "celebrating" Kirk's death.

Nobody should be killed for their political views, but the left was responsible for 42 attacks and 78 deaths over the same period where the right did 227 attacks, killing 520 (source: a recently deleted DoJ report https://archive.ph/cBfwR), your right-wing victim-hood deserves to be mocked.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded no thought leader is gonna outright celebrate it but they sure as hell enabled it, every one of them from Hasan Piker to Destiny to Dean Withers etc. enabling their shitbag audiences

what a surprise? you deliberately misquote him on gun control. here's his actual quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdk5q8jYm80

recently deleted DoJ report? lol more like a recently made up report

left-wing shitbags are well known for playing the victim all the day, recently crying over cancel culture for being fired yet they canceled Charlie Kirk permanently. quit projecting your victimhood

since you love Ukraine so much, where's your disgust at the Iryna Zarutska situation?

[WhiteSteve]

I could be talking about anyone. Charlie Kirk is in the news right now…. but I feel this way about Kobe Bryant🤷‍♂️

[goaded]

Do you even remember Trump joking about Paul Pelosi being attacked with a hammer? The lies your lot told about it?

"recently deleted DoJ report? lol more like a recently made up report"
Ah, so you're calling me a liar? Here's another source.

files.mastodon.online/.../2e6dc42469a045cb.jpeg

[Opinion Owner]

yeah it was fucked when feminists labeled Kobe Bryant a rapist on his funeral

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded nope. Trump was using Nancy Pelosi's open borders policy against her

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djl7guWhIdc

your "source" doesn't show how they gathered their data or their methodology

do they count the Trump assassinations as Right wing or Left wing attacks? how about Charlie's?

[goaded]

"Trump was using Nancy Pelosi's open borders policy against her" by claiming he was attacked by a gay lover, not a Trump supporter who believed Trump lies? You're as sick as them.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded did you even watch the fucking video? obviously not

[goaded]

No. It's a video of Trump and his lips are moving, so he's lying. FFS, how is saying her wall didn't work to protect her husband "using Nancy Pelosi's open borders policy against her"?



You should have liked the graph I showed, because it was crimes, not killings, and shows both sides occasionally close. When it comes to killings, 520 is a much bigger number than 42.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded because Nancy Pelosi and Democrat elites want open borders and police to be defunded everywhere except for their own neighborhoods. Paul Pelosi being attacked shows how Democrat policies backfire on themselves

idgaf about your graph. show me the methodology of your source. anyone can make a stupid graph. heck I could do one on PowerPoint right now

[goaded]

No, they don't, never did, never will. Paul Pelosi's attacker was not an immigrant, he was a right-wing nut job who had been encouraged by Trump and people like you to believe nonsense. The source of the graph is at the bottom of the image, go look it up.

You can find the report Trump's administration disappeared from the government website here: web.archive.org/.../306123.pdf

But you don't care about facts and sources, except as a way to pretend you've got a point, rather than a stream of lies.

"A new [2019] Department of Justice-funded study of all mass shootings — killings of four or more people in a public place — since 1966 found that the shooters typically have an experience with childhood trauma, a personal crisis or specific grievance, and a “script” or examples that validate their feelings or provide a roadmap. And then there’s the fourth thing: access to a firearm." www.vice.com/.../

Ignoring that they're only talking about mass shootings, not political violence in general, that ""script" or examples that validate their feelings or provide a roadmap" is what the right provides, daily. Kirk's killer followed their roadmap, even if his target was a right-wing Christian Nationalist.

All that shit about Democrats not being American, wanting "open borders", being "evil", "communist", "socialist", that's all intentionally feeding into right wing violence against anyone who doesn't worship Trump. That in this case it bled over and made one of their own a target doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded that's not a methodology. show me the methodology they used to get their results

[goaded]

"But you don't care about facts and sources, except as a way to pretend you've got a point, rather than a stream of lies." The sources are named in both cases.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded do you even know what a methodology is? anyone can make up facts and sources

not everyone can demonstrate how they got their results for their facts and sources

[goaded]

Do you know what a search engine is? How about a link? Go to the link, read the methodology.

web.archive.org/.../306123.pdf

Like I said:you don't care about facts and sources, except as a way to pretend you've got a point, rather than a stream of lies.

How about you show me a bill that opens the US borders to everyone, if you're so sure "Nancy Pelosi and Democrat elites want open borders" or one that defunds the police, if you're so sure they want "police to be defunded everywhere except for their own neighborhoods".

Meanwhile: "The Trump administration wants to slash Justice Department funding by nearly 8%, including cuts to the FBI and other law enforcement offices" news.bloomberglaw.com/.../trump-seeks-nearly-8-budget-cut-for-justice-department

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded there's no methodology to read because none exists

"facts and sources" can be made up. methodology can not be made up and allows for experiments to be repeated

Democrats just dismantled Trump's border policy during the Biden administration era. illegals are sent to sanctuary cities and broken neighborhoods, not to where Nancy Pelosi lives

[goaded]

You must know you're lying. It's a bit sad.

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded how am I lying when illegal aliens flooded the southern border once Trump was kicked out of office? how am I lying when Nancy Pelosi doesn't have deal with them but sanctuary city residents do?

[WhiteSteve]

I’d argue it was more fucked when Kobe raped a chick rather than when people held him socially accountable for it, but whatever I guess. WILD priorities😂

[Opinion Owner]

Kobe was false accused and it was proven in a court of law and nothing happened to his accuser

[sage2021]

No they can't sanitize their lives at the last juncture after being bad people all of their lives.

[WhiteSteve]

Agreed

[exitseven]

I have known a few assholes that died. I had no problem expressing my real feelings. I went to a funeral just to see him lying in a casket.

[WhiteSteve]

Lmao, so you’re a grudge guy😂

I agree, man. Who you are in life is exactly how you should be remembered

[exitseven]

@WhiteSteve I have pissed on somebodys grave before.

[Still-alive]

If people are this upset over one podcasters death just wait and see what happens when the current leader of the free world passes... just sayin lol.

[WhiteSteve]

He’ll be secretly alive on a remote island with Elvis and 2Pac, lmao

[Still-alive]

Oh yeah i fully expect conspiracy theories to form around him after he goes. People just can’t help themselves

[Twalli]

I'd still call Hitler a pos. Charlie Kirk wasn't that nice of person either. He was not that bad when I met him, but he was also single and in high school. He got meaner as he got older.

[WhiteSteve]

That’s wild that you knew dude, haha

I feel like Millenials in general are getting meaner as they get older sometimes

[seeyounexttuesday]

As we've seen with the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, it provides the left fodder to lie to try to smear someone's reputation.

[WhiteSteve]

What exactly do you feel is the lie? Do you think Charlie would appreciate you softening his stances and statements FOR him posthumously?

[OneViewpoint]

Oh fuck no. If you were a shitbag in life. You remain a shitbag for eternity. Death does not erase your crimes. When I meet you in Hell... run!

[BeenThereLovedIt]

I never understood why death changes anything. If a person is/was a piece of shit, they are/were a piece of shit, end of story.

[jshm2]

No. If anything you get the ghouls come out to take advantage. Just like we are seeing with Trump and his ilk.

[DryGermanGuy]

"Nil nisi bene de mortuis."

- Chilon of Sparta

[beefcakebradybatson]

What about Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Milosevic, Mao and other mass murdering swine?

[WhiteSteve]

Yes, sir, those are the should-be easy ones. I’m think more of people who were smaller-time pieces of shit, haha

[WhiteSteve]

*thinking

[beefcakebradybatson]

OK if their transgressions didn't adversely affect others' lives.

[Sal_Monella]

No. You set your mind as: I submit my spirit to G0d and may His will be done.

[jazzy34]

Absolutely NOT. The way these people have been honoring and mourning this latest bigot has been sickening.

[goaded]

Don't knock Hitler - he killed Hitler!

[WhiteSteve]

That’s true😂

[Still-alive]

That was one thing i actually agreed with Hitler on actually 👍🏻

[Bloodbreath]

A person must be remembered for ALL the things they've done!

[qwerty2469]

They should sacrifice themselves doing the most harm to Israel.

[Anonymous]

Depends on who they were, and what they did.

[Agape93]

Fuck no.

[x-anastasiaa-x]

I don't want to die 🤦.