Why is there so much more vitriol towards someone who doesn't believe in feminism than any condemning of "bad feminists" who give feminism a bad name?

[Anonymous]

feminists often claim feminism is about "equality" while their observable actions say otherwise

they can say whatever they want ( freedom of speech) but others are free to believe what they want ( freedom on thought ) based on how feminists be acting but that's not good enough according to them

then they wanna act like Bible thumpers trying to browbeat non-believers into agreeing with them, calling everyone else dumb, delusional, uneducated to more extreme labels like misogynist or incel

therefore in order to justify their beliefs or lack thereof, non-believers of feminism often point out the unequal flaws, inconsistencies, hypocrisies, double standards and excuses that feminists engage in

and instead of explaining their logic or reasoning for feminism, feminists would double down on the slander or better yet give the classical excuse it's not "real feminism" or those are just "bad feminists" who give feminism a bad name

now you would think "real feminists" would call out and condemn these "bad feminists" like Anita Sarkessian, Amy Schumer, Clementine Ford and many more man-haters

but there's always silence from "real feminists" and the condemnation is often being put on the shoulders of non-feminists and anti-feminists and the "real feminists" end up siding with and defending the "bad feminists"

meanwhile you would think a "real feminist" like Christina Hoff Summers or Cassie Jaye would be embraced more by "real feminists" but instead they too also receive vitriol for calling out the "bad feminists"

this appears to be the case for a lot of former feminists like Candace Owens, Karen Straughan, Bettina Arnt who getting treated the same way fundamentalist Muslims treat defectors

so if feminism is truly about "equality" why isn't there more vitriol towards "bad feminists" by "real feminists" except a bunch of virtue signaling empty words?

or is feminism what it has always been, a Marxist trojan horse with a bigger facade than Supreme Chancellor Palpatine?

[OneViewpoint]

"feminists often claim feminism is about "equality" while their observable actions say otherwise"

I would argue that you are confusing actual feminists with idiots on social media claiming the feminist label while not understanding or really caring what it stands for. You are responding to the worst 10% of women who happen to also be the ones screaming the loudest because they are also the dumbest with the worst morality.

Don't let yourself fall into that trap so easily. It's the same as a woman labeling all men misogynist assholes because of the man-baby Red Pill assholes on YouTube.

Feminists have legitimate gripes and are advocating for some legitimate change. Yeah some of them haven't thought it through and accepted that the changes they are asking for will require changes from them too. But that can be talked out between rational people.

But the idiot women and men who are screaming into the wind on the fringe of society just need to be ignored and pushed out of the conversation altogether. They contribute nothing to society.

[Asker]

and who are these actual feminists you speak of?

because last I checked, those who could be regarded as actual feminists like Cassie Jaye and Christina Hoff Summers have been ostracized

meanwhile there's no condemnation of the worst loud 10% you mention from actual feminists, only excuses at best and celebrations at worst

feminist gripes are not uniquely gendered and many have been pushed in order to favor women which is fine but they shouldn't claim they're doing it in the name of equality

[Billlewis]

Society has been stacked more in favor of women in recent years, apparently in an effort to right past wrongs, just as it's been stacked more in favor of non whites over whites, in an effort to right past racial wrongs, in my opinion.

[Tamera952]

Man, you need to go outside for a walk, get off the internet for a few hours.

[Asker]

gotta love it when those chronically online accuse others of being chronically online

[Tamera952]

Are you really insinuating that I’m chronically online? That’s really funny given the fact you don’t know anything about me, and is the farthest from the truth. instead of trying to one up me, why don’t ya give it a shot? All I meant was that you clearly needed some fresh air.

[Asker]

are you really gonna pretend you didn't start this shit first with the accusations?

[Tamera952]

What shit, and what accusations? …? I started this with an observation, and a suggestion. I didn’t accuse you of anything. Relax.

[Asker]

are you really gonna try and play dumb here?

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Critiquing an individual is not the same as blatant misogyny. That’s why.

[Asker]

apparently it is blatant misogyny if you critique a feminist or their beliefs

feminists have shown time and time again to defend those on their side who are hateful

meanwhile feminists who critique feminism get ostracized and have been cast out

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Such as?

[Asker]

Cassie Jaye, Christina Hoff Summers, Candace Owens, Karen Straughan, Bettina Arndt all of whom have been ostracized from feminist circles. I would put Tulsi Gabbard and Karoline Leavitt out there too despite both fitting the type of role model whom feminists would look up at

meanwhile Anita Sarkessian, Amy Schumer, Clementine Ford, the ladies on the View are excused for their misandry and blatant disregard for equality

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

No one under 40 watches The View anymore. I honestly didn’t even know it was still airing. Candace Owens is a known grifter. Cassie Jaye “no longer calls herself a feminist.” Summers’ work lends credibility to a reactionary rhetoric and, unfortunately as a result, provides ammunition for any opposed to the movement. Karen Straughan is much the same. You can’t serve the Trump administration and call yourself feminist as is the cases for Gabbard and Leavitt as they directly oppose a number of feminist views. These are all valid critiques, regardless of whether or not you personally agree with them.

The issue seems to be, for you, that they’re ostracized for including men in the conversation. There’s nothing wrong with including men, but the main issue is the patriarchy itself and the complications that come with supporting views that can also support this system.

[Asker]

no, Candace believes in what she believes in to the point many of those on her side think she's crazy. that's not what a grifter is or does. a grifter is someone who knowingly know they're wrong but acts as if they're right

Cassie Jaye got ostracized from calling herself a feminist just for showing men's side of the story that is often forgotten

Christina standing for actual equality lends to reactionary rhetoric? seems to me, feminists are more concerned with power than actual equality if Christina's work is so "bad" because opposition can use them?

whether Tulsi or Karoline claim to be feminists are not, they clearly fit the archetype of what feminists claim to be or wish to be, which is a strong independent girl boss that handles pressure very well

what the hell does calling the inequalities that favor women, calling out the inconsistencies/double standards or calling out misandrists have to do with the patriarchy?

right is right. wrong is wrong. because the "patriarchy" might gets some wins?

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

You’re smart enough to recognize the complexities, but you’re still lending yourself to my original assumption about why you feel these women were wronged. You know it’s not as simplistic as that in the long run, and you’re also smart enough to know that the loudest voices are rarely the smartest in any situation, whether they’re criticizing or praising someone. Don’t attack me just because I don’t see the value that you do. As far as I can tell, all of these women are in line with terf values, which is a feministic branch I staunchly oppose.

[Asker]

yeah and that means observing what someone does instead of what they say they would do

feminists can't claim to support equality when they mistreat those who practice actual equality while propping up those who support misandry and gynocracy

it's the same logic that's used against cops. if good cops don't call out bad cops, then good cops can be assumed to validate the bad cops. good feminists saying nothing about bad feminists might as well condone what bad feminists are doing

the loudest feminist voices are actually the most listened to voices amongst feminists and they rarely receive any condemnation, not even condemning celebrating Charlie Kirk's death

I'm not attacking you at all. I'm attacking your points which are very vague and rely heavily on assumptions actual feminists are doing what you're claiming they're doing

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Well if all you want to do is argue about something where neither of us will change our minds, I don’t see much point in talking anymore

[Asker]

you could change my mind if you had the evidence and not just hope I take your word for it

it certainly doesn't help you when there's more visual and empirical evidence of feminists not practicing what they preach

just take this interview with Cassie Jaye alone and how condescending her interviewers were

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0

and Cassie has self-admitted her mission was to expose the MRAs as scum and when she realized she was wrong about them, it didn't take long for her to receive backlash and while she no longer identifies as a feminist, it's not something that simply came out of nowhere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY

if addressing inequalities somehow leads to you being ostracized from a group that supposedly stands for equality, then does that group actually believe in equality? this isn't rocket science

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

No, see changing minds means working with someone’s ego as all of our opinions are directly tied to our ego and identity as a part of who we are. Unless this is significantly unattached to you, which I doubt, any change of mind would come with a mountain of effort I’m not willing to give and it would be a begrudging agreement on your part

[Asker]

except here the majority of evidence in regards to differences between feminist beliefs vs feminist actions points to my observations being more correct than not correct

observing how someone or an entire group practicing what they preach is how we know if they truly believe in or are whom they represent themselves to be

this is how we tell apart good politicians vs bad politicians, real Christians vs fake Christians, real tough guys vs fake tough guys and in the case of feminism, their actions hardly represent what they claim to represent

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Thank you for further proving my point

[Asker]

you didn't make any point to prove, just a pre-emptive excuse to avoid debate

if anything you're proving my point feminists can't justify their beliefs with their actions

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Then we both go home happy, don’t we?

[Asker]

everyone is responsible for their own happiness and this question has nothing to do with happiness or lack thereof

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

I agree my happiness is my choice and I’m quite pleased rn, how about you?

[Asker]

my happiness hasn't changed. doesn't mean the facts have changed

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

And the fact is this is whole thing has been about opinions. Your opinion on the feminist community at large and my opinion on the feminist community at large and you want to call it a fact because it’s based on information that is true, and the information I based mine on is also true. You’ll be fine if people don’t agree with your opinion.

[Asker]

truth claims can only be made with facts and evidence not just claiming it's true because one believes it to be true

people can disagree all they want but it's odd to disagree without some factual grounding

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

My man, these are all opinions based on facts. You’re making a fuss because I don’t agree with you and don’t want to convince you otherwise. Go back to the dozens of other fights you pick online our of boredom

[Asker]

where do you get this assumption I expect everyone to agree with me?

[slatyb]

What exactly is a "bad feminist" ? A woman who won't date you?

[Asker]

thanks for proving my point. you just couldn't help yourself could you?

[slatyb]

Thanks for proving my point. Name a woman and what she has done to be a "bad feminist".

[slatyb]

You've named a few women. Please tell us what they have done or said that makes them a "bad feminist".

[Asker]

you didn't make any point except ask a question and then proceeded with slander

[Asker]

feminists don't practice what they preach and have excuses lined up for their inconsistencies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDT5MHoNKd4

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UXE7XBHEJfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d-0Q9fGm6A

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cNT1eI_sgdk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxyJq9Hl-jo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u58IksmdzQ8

[Anonymous]

Yikes dude. I get why you went anon on this little rage rant of yours.

[Asker]

not as much rage as you have for those who don't conform to your beliefs

[Opinion Owner]

Cute you think I'm raging.

[Asker]

oh you definitely are raging on the inside trying to save face

[Opinion Owner]

Is that what you're trying to do here? Save face, adorable dude. 🥰

[Asker]

you obviously have no idea what save face means

[Opinion Owner]

Oh poor little bugger thinks he knows more than everyone else and then is mistaken. No wonders you rage this much dear. Keep it up mister rager.

[Asker]

never claimed I knew more than anyone else

[Opinion Owner]

Oh, yet you just did. 🥰 Adorable. No wonders you're a rager.

Which beliefs of mine do I expect others to conform towards and rage over when I don't? Wait, you have no idea, just you raging like a little bitch, trying to safe face from the idiotic rant you made. Raging more and more because I refuse to conform to your rant.

[Asker]

prove it

show me where I claimed to know more than anyone else

[Opinion Owner]

Oh, refusing too answer the question. I knew you couldn't. Just adorable. No wonders you're such a rager. But I can and will answer yours because unlike you I don't deflect in my own rage. 🥰
Well, you thought I (someone else than you) didn't know what saving face means (you knew something others don't and when mistaken you rage). Keep trying to safe face with accusations and deflections little one. It's what ragers are best at.

[Asker]

you're deflecting right now with your projection

and you haven't answered my question at all nor demonstrated where I claimed to know more than anyone else

now show me where I claimed to know more than anyone else

[Opinion Owner]

No deflection.

I just did.

I just did, you still haven't answered yourself. How cute. 🥰 Knew you couldn't. And talking about projection, you started this shit with one. 😂 keep on raging because I refuse to conform to your little rant of beliefs. It's simply adorable.

[Asker]

keep telling yourself you proved something by proving nothing

nowhere am I am telling to you to conform to my beliefs but keep believing in the words you put in my mouth

your emojis aren't gonna help you save face

[Opinion Owner]

Lol, I did. You still refuse to answer because you're a little dumb shit. How cute. 🥰

And you're raging because I refuse to conform to your little rant there little one. Haven't put a single word into your little foul mouth.

What do I need to safe face from? You making our accusations with no hold in? You not being able to back up the shit you say? How hilarious my dude. Keep trying to safe face there. A little brainless primitive. Almost sorry for giving you more shit that you can't answer. 🥰

[Asker]

lmao this is my question I posted here you retarded bitch

it's on you to answer my question but you can't answer it without exposing yourself

so you save face acting as if you're above this only to prove how worthless your mind is

[Opinion Owner]

Oh calling me a retard now because I refuse to conform to your little rage post. Talk about projecting.

Want an answer? Your little rage rant makes you look just as pathetic as the feminist or whatnot you're whining about in your post. There's are bad apples in all groups. You be one of them. Giving those that don't identify as feminists a bad rep.

Save face acting as if I'm above this? You're damn right I'm above your pathetic rant and accusations which is why I refuse to take shit that comes out of your mouth seriously since nothing you've said is related to your topic.

And nice deflection about not being able to answer. Let's just pretend you can. It's just above you to do so. And you accuse me of projecting. 😂

[Asker]

because you are retarded, running around in circles proving nothing

lol those who don't identify as feminists already have a bad rap, meanwhile y'all side with and defend the bad apples against those calling them out

gee asking a question about vitriol is now considered whining? that's your "genius" mind at work there. it's no wonder you can read words that don't exist

haha yeah you're so above this you've ended up rolling in mud from the very beginning

like I said, this is my question. the onus is on you to answer it which you're clearly incapable of doing

[Opinion Owner]

You've not given me anything to prove little one.

And you're not helping it, and who's "y'all"? Who says I view myself as a feminist? Couldn't it be that I think you're giving ME a bad rep with your nonsense of a rant, which is equally bad as the indivuals you're ranting about.

The question itself might not have been whining but all the none essential paragraphs up and down surrounding the question and could perfectly be left out IS whining.

I'm not rolling in mud here. You are. I'm addressing everything you offer in this conversation, you refuse to do the same, which makes you and your nonsense absolute filler shit. I don't know if you are simply this dense of a human being or if you're doing a poor attempt of trolling. None the less, you're starting to bore the shit out of me, since YOU are clearly incapable of actually putting something behind your nonsense.

[Opinion Owner]

No wonders you need to rage like a bitch as anon. Poor little bitch can't do anything but deflect and hide behind "it's my question".

Well bitch, you're replying to my reply, so deal with what the fuck that is thrown at you or proof what I already know, that you know absolutely nothing and are just throwing shit out there to have something to say.

[Asker]

lol how am I giving you a bad rap? no ma'am, you gave yourself a bad rap from the very beginning

and why don't you view yourself as a feminist?

could it possibly be because I'm right along and you'll be associated with the bad apples if you view yourself as a feminist?

or deep down you also know feminists are full of shit but you can't help yourself but to defend them without sounding like one?

either way you're not getting out of this one and you're not fooling anyone either

you've addressed absolutely nothing. nothing about the vitriol towards those who don't share their beliefs, nothing about the backlash towards Cassie Jaye, Christina Hoff Summers etc. nothing about the defense or lack of association with the likes of Anita Sarkessian, Amy Schumer, Clementine Ford and other feminists who don't practice what they preach

don't get upset because you're losing an insult battle you started

[Opinion Owner]

Lol, nah I just said I understand why you went anon and it made you rage even more than you did. It was cute. Now it's just a bore.

Not answering. Two can play that game. Right about what? I got tired reading your little rant of bitching about some indivuals.

And I know nothing about who those people are, or if I do it's very little, because honestly there are bigger shit in this world to care about than some celebrities. Guessing that is what they are. Good for you to be indulging in that.

I'm not upset about anything dear. Just getting bored of your nonsense.

[Asker]

yet look who's also anon. going anon is good for you to deliberately be as dumb as you want

but yeah, keep telling yourself you're bored as if you're fooling anyone here

[Opinion Owner]

Absolutely am. Again two can play that game. 🥰 You think I was expecting anything intelligent coming from you based on your the little rage rant around your little rant.

Lol, I'm getting bored. Cute you are so asure of yourself and your impact on strangers.

Keep indulging in celebrity gossip and shit. I'm glad my life ain't as empty as yours. I'll actually use my energy on shit that actually matters.

[Asker]

oh we can see you're so bored you keep coming back

if you're so happy with your life, then why return time and time again? because your life isn't a great as you try to convince others it is

[Opinion Owner]

Yawn

[Opinion Owner]

I get a notification and I reply. How dense are you that this is something you can't understand how works. You denser than I thought.

[Opinion Owner]

You truly outing how much of a simpleton you are but now you're into celebrity gossip and shit like some desperate housewives in the 50s.

[Opinion Owner]

Now keep crying you little weak ass bitch. "Hurh hurh hurh femists, hurh hurh celebrities, hurh hurh, I be a little angry boy, hurh hurh hurh" 😂

[Opinion Owner]

See now I'm like truly truly bored, not just bored of you. But doubt someone as fricking dense as you will understand the difference.

Probably out there finding your next celebrity gossip to evolve your world around.

[Opinion Owner]

"those I view as feminist are not liked" well because they're not feminists just because they claim to be you little dipshit.

These other feminists are bad and thus they all will be. Fallacy.

Some feminist don't call some feminists out, they all nonsense. Fallacy.

You such a generalising little bitch in your little rager of a rant there that you got all your point ridiculed. You make an argument like a toddler. 10/10 you American who never learn shit.

[Opinion Owner]

"I dictate who is a real feminist and who is not and if you dare to not conform to who I belief is which and if you don't hate on those I hate on you xxxx"

They being hated on plenty, and loudly by your kind. Your kind also being able to identify as a feminist.

[Opinion Owner]

All your replies to everyone else is just more weak as "points" you fail at. Now I'm entertained by you again. But you keep on being a simpleton and think just because someone as a big voice and a big platform (you being their fan base not I) doesn't mean they represent a whole ass group, as your simple mind wants to think. I know Cupcake is giving you the benefit of the doubts, that there is anything intelligent about you but I don't.

Wish I hadn't got anon so I could favour this question and spam the shit out of all the nonsense you think is smart. 😂

More is coming.

[Asker]

lol what a convenient excuse to not be held accountable for lying about representing equality and hating on those who do

when a whole ass group refuses to denounce their extremists, justifies their extremists and shows more vitriol towards denouncers, that's all you need to know about their beliefs

Cupcake is giving every political correct answer without addressing the issue itself

oh gee, I can't wait to see you spam more dumb garbage and expect everyone to believe you're not a feminist

perhaps you should tell me who an actual real feminist is then and how they represent the beliefs of feminism with widespread agreement amongst feminist circles. I'll wait

[Anonymous]

Because anger and hate are foundational elements of modern feminism.

[Anonymous]

Feminists hate men and they act like men. Just answering anyone who’s wondering