Do you think feminism has changed for better or for worse over the years?

[thegreenyogi]

[MisterWack]

Feminism has changed for the better in terms of messaging, community, and education.
There will be yahoos of course who find the most radical or most stupid of the voices in feminism then share it to portray all feminists like that shared ideology which it isn’t. This is another culture war moment as usual.

The feminists bring up sexual assault, abuse, cheating, and worker’s rights also specific legislation that keeps them down as women. Feminism is founded in logic, reason, compassion which hurts a lot of insecure types especially if they were abused, silenced, and exploited without anyone to turn to and don’t want others to do the same. The counter to it is unhinged angry arrogant ‘old men yelling at clouds’ whose only agenda is to make them look bad so, no one joins because they feel threatened by it or uneasy. Feel as though men are losing control.

Men want rights, but they seem more like privileges and wanting to flaunt it while women want to be equally protected, treated with dignity, heard, and for everyone to listen to what they have to say without filters. I’d like to see my fellow man instead of raging, build a community of worker’s rights, anti sexual abuse, anti cheating, etc. do the educating needed to lift everyone up, not push others down to lift yourself up in perspective.

I don’t view feminism as Girl V. Boy or Woman V. Man, I view feminism as “women weren’t always equal, we are making progress and it shouldn’t go backwards”.
And I don’t get why my fellow men are afraid of a woman being a CEO, President, Employee, etc. because it is business as usual only difference is the gender. The system in place still stenches with corruption, you should look into that rather than someone’s gender being the deciding factor if you like them or not.

[MisterWack]

Thanks for MHO, appreciate it

[NathanDavis]

"feminism" can mean a million different things...

even in the same group of feminists, if you have four feminists together... you can get six DIFFERENT MEANINGS of what feminism is and stands for, even if they're just four people

in that sense, it has lost meaning

however, in reality... women today can have way more meaningful and fulfilling lives than all those women from the past who truly fought and died for these rights

so, it all depends on how you see things and how you want to see things... on a more personal take, there's plenty of great women in my life (family, friends, partners, neighbors, long etcétera...) and NONE of them are "feminists" they are FIGHTERS... but they don't fight the men, they do fight along men, with men, for men and also themselves... and they focus on the men that reciprocate that... don't waste their time finding men who are NOT men in the first place, and just waste their time and their lives fighting them

[Dargil]

There are some basic behavioral characteristics that are decaying Western Culture.

[Apulu_backagain]

It's dangerous when people say that it falls into category of sexism now because in patriarchal countries like Sudan and rural India feminism is extremely extremely needed. Feminism still fights for equality and fairness between both sexes and it's sad that sometimes misandrists use this to shield themselves and misogynists use this as an excuse to say that feminism is same as sexism.

In a way, it has become better, but at the same time due to hidden misandry, people disregard it so it has also worsen. But it surely did it's job to reduce the barrier between opportunities and those deprived of it.

[Still-alive]

Yeah like with any movement you got a loud minority saying dumb stuff but its not anywhere near as big an issue as a lot of dudes make it out to be.

there's still a lot of work to be done though. Toxic masculinity is still a big issue despite how problematic people find that term. It is a truth that people need to accept if we are to truly progress. What a lot of men need are better male role models. Good wife guys like Zohran Mamdani for example. We need more of that for our young men today to emulate their behavior from.

[Apulu_backagain]

@Still-alive exactly

[HighValue]

Feminism has NEVER done anything for EQUALITY. Name one law in the USA that was changed to benefit men.

[Apulu_backagain]

@HighValue
The way you say it is very problematic because you mixed up misandry with feminism. If men don't have equal rights in US then I guess it's more of a reason why Feminism is important. Again again again, feminism fights for equality of opportunities, it's not against men.

And what do you mean by benefit? The whole point is that no one has benefits over anyone and everyone is equal. You’re missing how law actually works. Once you push for equal rights, you don’t get a one-way benefit, you rewrite the rules for everyone

And why am I supposed to know US laws as an Indian resident? The world doesn't revolve around US. And the laws were first made to benefit the privileged and later men for most of the part, there was no equality. But hey I know few so either way, here are some:-

[Apulu_backagain]

• California Family code
Section 3011 - this is regarding child custody after divorce and earlier the mother was prioritised, but now the law says it depends on the 'best interest of the child' with no regards to gender of the parent. There is gender neutrality. Fathers can have their kids which was almost impossible earlier.
Section 4320 - this is regarding alimony or what you can say as spousal support after divorce. The law uses terms like 'either party' which means that even men can recieve alimony too which was nearly impossible before.

• Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
This uses terms like 'sex' instead of specific gender that means it recognises men for workplace harrasment and sexual assault.

You know what? Why don't you mention any law which benefits women over men? Few such laws were made but FEMINISM MADE THESE LAWS GENDER NEUTRAL.
There is one law which discriminates though.

• Military Selective Service Act
It mandates that males aged 18 to 25 register with the Selective Service System to maintain an adequate armed force. Though it is dormant, feminism is fighting it. And congress has debated to include women in this draft multiple times and Men's right groups (which is under ideology of feminism as well) is fighting for either including women or abolishing the law itself.

US constitution is majorly gender neutral. There are practical advantages and disadvantages for women and men in law and that is what feminism is fighting for.

[HighValue]

None of that is actually in practice and I lived in CA for 37 years. Just over 90% of kids are given to the mothers with no legitimate reason other than she is a woman. Also, many schools and other employment agencies actively discriminate against men, especially White men. You need to live in reality of what ACTUALLY happens IRL, not some nonsense and lies that sound good, but aren't actually put into practice.

Now, where is the equal jail time for the same crimes? Where is equal enforcement of harassment in the workplace? When will women go to jail for not providing healthcare for their kids like men do? When will there be automatic equal custody of kids?
Hmm, haven't seen any of that because MOST women in the USA are dishonest, selfish, unfair, morally disgusting POS people. Not a few, but MOST.

[Apulu_backagain]

@HighValue I think that's more of a reason why feminism should be taken seriously. Feminism works for equality, regardless of gender. You're describing misandry.

[Anonymous]

I considered myself a feminist since I was old enough to understand what it was, and why it existed in the first place. I was a member of a feminist student club during university and was very involved. Having said that, I don't consider myself a feminist today. I absolutely support the goals and ideals of original feminism, but what I've seen of today's feminism is not something I can feel good about supporting.

[Zack-Bann]

Definitely worse


Mainly because a lot “neo-feminist” movements came along and coopted the brand


Like the ones who say “a housewife is a traitor to women and all women should be working”


Not to mention all the ones who just spend their days hating on men for existing and picking fights with whoever engages with them


The core principle are still good.
Equality and a fair treatment and such


And of course first generation feminists had a real fight on their hands, actually voting, being allowed to work and own property etc…


I’m just not a fan of modern day complainers who despise need to a struggle and a cause to feel worthy of anything
When they live in the least oppressive era of human history by far

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

But comparing sociohistorical situations like that is one gateway to immobilism, making us believe that the worst oppression should be addressed whereas the milder one isn't worth batting an eye.

[Zack-Bann]

I’m not suggesting it isn’t worth batting an eye
A sexist comment to a coworker at the office is not something to be ignored just because she’s now allowed to have a job

But I find it’s important to balance the reactions to the actions themselves

And today very few are willing to do that

Whenever I listen to post modern feminists I hear them screaming out in anger about certain grievances that everyone deals with and have always dealt with.

And it weakens their position because now they can be, and often are, dismissed as hysterical or delusional

It helps no one. And some of them don’t care, because their main goal is to gain personal publicity from the cause

Basically larpers
And they’re a dime a dozen

Which is why I think feminism has taken a turn for the worse over the years not the better.

But that’s to be expected with any long standing social issue
First it’s honestly and legitimate
But as time goes on more and more people start exploiting it

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Well, I don't believe balanced reactions, in a collective framework, get us anywhere though, I think it's a nice thing to have as an individual but not as a group. I also believe that outbursts last for some time until they get absorbed by society, in some appeased, normalized format.

[Zack-Bann]

So you would say that feminism has changed for the better?
That the current way of pushing for change is effective in the long run?

That’s an interesting point of view

I seen nothing wrong with radical solutions if they work.
I’m still not convinced this one does.
But it’s also true that the general freedom of women is at an all time high so there’s something to be said for results.

Also something to be said about the downsides but that’s the cost of change

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I would keep saying that feminism, wherever it goes, is a necessity by design, I'm saying that the extreme forms it can take do generate moderate forms as a result of spread. I could say that about feminism or any social right movement or any social progress at all. but maybe that's the part where I look at societal evolution in somewhat Marxist terms, this idea about conflict would be the drive.

[InknKink]

From what I see, it's a this over that thing nowadays.

I don't see it as being about equality, or really even about women's rights. It's about hate and anger towards a preconceived notion that society inherently suppressed women. At it's worst, that suppression, it's forced upon them by the desires of men.

You can have pride in your gender. You can love being a woman. You can support women. But I think we're past the point where feminism is anything other than the very divide it sought to overcome.

[Snakeyes7]

It was always about getting the sexes to hate each other, read the Declaration of Sentiments if you don't believe me. It plays the classic game of deploying a threat narrative by saying "X has all the power, which makes them tyrants by default, and Y must rise up to destroy it." Meanwhile if that was actually the case, feminism would have been squashed the moment it began.

Well they've destroyed it 60ish years ago and the fact that feminism is still around just says they want more power, that equality is not enough. Now they have preferential treatment in divorce, workforce, government assistance and sentencing for crimes.

And the most ironic thing is that none of that would be possible if any of what feminism said about the patriarchy was true.

[loveslongnails]

The original feminist movement was a good thing, and it was mostly about legal status/equity and tearing down some patriarchal rules. Of course, that got hijacked by both right and left wing extremists who turned it into either a "women aren't the same as men" or " women don't need men" shitshow, depending on which side of the political spectrum you were on.

The bottom line is it stopped being feminism and mutated into polarized nonsense with both ends forgetting about the reason it began in the first place. That's where it's at today. Men are quick to blame what they think is feminism for women not being interested in them any more. Women are quick to blame men, all men, for being hurtful creatures, so they'd rather "choose the bear".

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I think it became more fierce, more visible over the years?

It's hard to tell, I'm not an interesting target for feminist views, I've always been a leftist. So the interactions I have with feminist postures are mostly wink wink and shared smiles. I heard that some guys had troubles adapting to the scenario, I don't feel sorry for them.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

I dunno, I kinda lost track. I feel like woman are at least hearing guys out more what we thought was toxic and against their own best interest about it.

But apparently only 34% of woman like guys so... Lol I don't know how true that is but I think that's probably a hint that feminism is a symptom and not really the problem. Which I think is the conversation we should have been having 10 years ago

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

The more people fight for control the less powerful they become. It's true for both sexes.

I've said it a million times now. The most attractive women are biblical women. Very few women know what that means these days. But if feminists want to be in charge, they can go ahead and wonder where all the good men are.

[Friendlybro79]

I don't know honestly. I don't see the extreme negative examples some people here share about it. In real life, I don't see if it's better or worse because I don't know any women in my life, work and personal that openly broadcast and label themselves as feminists. I do this women that consider themselves feminists now would be a better source of truth to answer this question. I hope better in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

You can't even classify what passes for Feminism as Feminism now-a-days. Feminism WAS about quality. Today it's only about trying to subjagate men in any way possible. It's not about equality, it's about declaring war on men.

True feminists would be appalled.

[jahaims]

It's brainwashing to double the work force and break up family units. They get to tax 50% more people. Females working creates more disposable income that can be spent on products. Without a stay at home parent the government raises your kid. Maxwell's dad controlled what was published in school books and before that our school system was based on the Prussian education system that was designed to make soldiers and workers.

[Spencer10]

I think Feminism has maybe lost its focus. It tries to be too much for too many issues. I would stick to the big issues and pick them off one by one.

[HighValue]

Feminism has NEVER been about equality. It has been about damaging the family unit, and more government control over people's lives.

Name a single law that is harmful to men that feminism got changed to stop it from harming men.

[molonski2]

Certainly for worse.

Became ridiculously extreme , and now many women do not wish to associate with it.

[Dargil]

Like the civil rights and conservation movements, it has listened to the sound of its own wheels and has driven itself crazy.

[TonyMetal___86]

For the worse, a lot worse!
I'm an anti feminism by the way 😌
Women do have rights but surely not on the hands of those roaring karen pigs feminazis 🤣🤣

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

I don't think people really pay attention to feminism out in the real world as women today have equal rights and opportunities in western civilization.

Its more of a internet thing now and from that point is worse.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Worse, at this point it just falls more into the category or sexism, they honestly have nothing else to fight for

[Apulu_backagain]

But there is still a lot to fight for.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Like what?

[Apulu_backagain]

Like child marriage, Bride kidnapping ritual, human trafficking, the million numbers of rapes and those cases pending, men being falsely accused of assault and being jailed with no questions and women getting away from crimes easily, menstrual products being ridiculously expensive and unavailable for lower income groups.

If you want something more relevant to America then WIC benefits decreasing dangerously, overturning of Roe V Wade, the whole Epstein thing (I acknowledge that male victims were also there but majority were underage girls which proves that so many girl children are unsupervised and live in vulnerable conditions where they are not safe).

If feminism wasn't needed then why do we have severe cases like human egg farm of Georgia where many many women were kept only for the purpose to harvesting their eggs, something similar happened in Nepal but with minors. Why are women rights dismissed in so many countries till now if feminism isn't needed.

Yes, I acknowledge that misandrists often times use the title of feminism to shield themselves but I think it's time we differentiate both misandry and feminism. Feminism fights against misandry and misogyny. Feminism fights for equal rights of humans irrespective of their gender, it was never about men against women. It is still desperately needed.

[Apulu_backagain]

*never about women against men

[ChicoFromThe305]

The cold truth is that there's nothing feminists can do about any of these things, this is probably going to sound sexist but many changes done in society done for feminism wasn't really done cause women did anything but cause they complained enough to make changes, the women that actually made changes by doing something are a minority, things changed not cause the higher ups care about equality but because these movements received enough attention and support to push their hand to make the change because what they actually fear is unity of a nation, the real solution to many of the first few things you've mention are far too inhumane for any normal feminist group to actually accomplish, you'd need some uncensored minds to make any change in those things like rape or violence because the only solution to such violence is unfortunately more violence, you start cutting off genitals or putting them in iron bulls, you'll see how many people find self control to not commit those acts

[Apulu_backagain]

Yeah, the main thing is people don't care enough about this or are not aware. We need many people complaining about this to take this seriously. We need people actually using advantage of their voice.

[ChicoFromThe305]

We need violence, humane incarceration doesn't create enough fear in these sick people's minds to stop them from doing what they do

[Apulu_backagain]

Yeah, people complaining leads to awareness, so more people complain. When more people complain, then they start feeling seriously about these issues. When that happens, then violence takes place. And when violence takes place, so does revolution.

French revolution followed by the whole European revolution, it started with common people gossiping about the aristocrats and clergy group having more privilege than peasants in bakeries and cafes. Complaining is the first step to any sort of big change.

And if people were taught to be feminism and raised in a way that they naturally had egalitarian (everyone should be equal) thoughts then these cases wouldn't have existed in the first place.

The only thing we need is, we don't need OF models advocating feminism, we need actual victims and people who know about the real world advocating it.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Sounds like feminism have their own civil war lol

Onlyfans is its own issue, it's crazy cause many of those women claim to be feminists

[Apulu_backagain]

So yeah feminism is extremely needed. Just because someone claims to be feminist doesn't mean they are feminist if they don't follow those ideals.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Needed is a strong word, we need women but women shouldn't be fighting all the men for superiority which is what most feminists are invested doing and the truth is that superiority didn't really exist until a woman complained about it, there was definitely benefits of a being a man just how there was benefits of being a woman and women want to be the first to get off the Titanic and still get the equal benefits that men get, at that point this isn't equality anymore 😂

[ChicoFromThe305]

Actually back in the day a man would take all the hardships of working and busting their ass to keep his children and woman at home together, all she would have to do is take care of the house while the man is gone and the children but for some reason this was seen negatively or like men want superiority, now you have women complaining that men aren't manly enough cause they don't go to war or want to work, so which one is it, I think feminist movements are just a cover to being sexist 💀

[Apulu_backagain]

Here's the thing, that's not feminism. That's misandry. Feminism doesn't fight for superiority, it fights for equality of opportunities. Feminism is against misandry and misogyny.

Equality of opportunity. That's all we NEED. No benefits to cancel out anything. In titanic thing, minors should have been rescued first, followed by pregnant ladies, followed by parents. That's the order. The men going to war thing, it shouldn't happen according to feminism as well.

Need is a strong word and appropriate for use here. We need humans to be at peace with each other in order to function well. Again, Feminism is not only about women, it is called so because it started as advocating equal rights for women.

[Apulu_backagain]

Again again and again, don't mix up misandry and feminism.

I really don't want to do the men vs women thing. But the thing you said about men taking hardships and being ideal husband and ideal father was extremely rare. Women being beat up by the husband, giving birth to 10 kids and taking care of those kids while taking care of home for 24/7 was more common.

'All she would have to do is take care of the house'

As if taking care of so many children was an easy thing.

Here's the thing, all the things you're complaining about, it is exactly what feminism is working for. It doesn't want men to bear unnecessary hardships, it doesn't want men to be labelled unmanly just for not going to war, it doesn't want any human to have limited options.

[ChicoFromThe305]

We need men and women to coexist with each other not labels, labels is the beginning of separation and the formation of groups, which is actually the opposite of equality because where there's labels there's always better and worse, feminists should be feminists without the label, it's how it shouldve been, wait so what are women that don't claim feminism then? Traditional women?

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

@ChicoFromThe305
Coexisting without subgroups and labels is putting us back to some antediluvian tribe living in isolation. It's just technically impossible, given how many we are and how we've planted a flag on each piece of land that exists.
Labels, subgroups and conflicts between these groups is the only destination of any civilisation in History, without this, there would have been no EU ships going to Americas, no one standing against slavery, no one standing against segregation, no one obtaining workers rights, election and such.

[Mike_Hum]

It's nothing but communist garbage. From start to finish. It has sold a bill of lies to women which have made them miserable.

[Anonymous]

I don't know how this is even a question. Anyone who says feminism has changed for the better is either not paying attention or is just being very dishonest.

Feminist today is a joke. It hides behind the word "equality" while being sexist, divisive and hateful.

Feminism has lost respect, and for good reason.

[AviatorTom]

Like any movement, feminism has solved some problems over the years, and created new ones. Better or worse depends on who you talk to.

[RavVid]

Worse. It has created self entitled women who reject accountability and expect to have it all with no real world realism.

[Shiprex]

It's worse as it's turned women into fragile men. Femininity seems to be unavailable.

[sage2021]

Definitely for the worse! It's not even comparable to when it first started.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Better. Anyone who says otherwise knows why they’re wrong

[Anonymous]

Real feminism never changes. But some new movements appear trough decades.

People often view feminism in a very negative sense - because they usually mistake femi-nazis for feminists.

[Cidknee]

Well, it'd be worse, now wouldn't it? Just the way the liberals have progressively gotten worse. Feminism along with lgbtq-ect. are all arms of the liberal (democrat) cult.

[888theGreat]

Worse , Men don't make as much money as they did. Fewer children being borned. More divorces.

[Bricealan]

@thegreenyogi maybe less resentment towards men overall, but hard to really know

[Still-alive]

Better but don’t let the incels catch you saying that! It melts their brains

[KostasKouvalis]

Worse. It no longer represents the things it once did and has become too radical, at least in the West

[pethouse]

I think at most, it’s a double edge sword. Yeah it does good thing maybe a few bad and at the end of the day people will abuse tf out of it, hate it or ignore it. Just like everything else.

[blackeagle007]

Worse. Feminazis are making it crazy. Besides why is there feminism in the western world? Try living in Saudi Arabia, Iran. Oppression is real there

[Iron_Man]

Too much power way too much there’s no more feminism they want dominance even you are in control of every man you talk to am I right?

[Pohjolan]

Its a matter of perspective. Worse if you are gal competing with a guy with makeup but better if you are a muslim man.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Largely better, though the extremists worsened things for both sexes.

[Tungi]

A bit of both. But I think it’s lifted women too high to the point where they disrespect men and try to put him down.

[PolarPoint]

I think Its better

[AgentG111]

Possibly worse.

[msc545]

Much, much worse.

[Anonymous]

For worse, no question.

[Opinion Owner]

There are women today who don’t agree with modern day feminism and what it represents

[slatyb]

It hasn't changed.

[FunkyMonkee]

Much worse!

[Sammy098]

Worse and worse