Was Brexit ultimately a win or a loss for the UK?

[Anonymous]

[MontBlanc]

I don't think Brexit can honestly be summed up as either a win or a loss.

Reality is usually more complicated than that.

Some people feel it delivered exactly what they voted for greater control over national decisions and sovereignty.

Others point to the economic costs, trade frictions, and labour shortages as reasons it hasn't lived up to expectations.

To me, what's interesting is that years later, people are still debating the same question, that probably says more than any headline ever could.

Maybe the better question isn't whether Brexit was a win or a loss, but whether it became what people believed they were voting for.

I'd be interested to hear how others see it.

[lilBigPotato]

Loss. Weaker economy, less influence and didn't get much back in return.

[Levin]

The UK could be a tremendously rich country but we have terrible politicians and terrible populations who vote for them.

The attitude is to just continue on with the self-suicidal policies.

Last year we imported a net 350000 non-EU migrants.

Just continue to spend far beyond our capacity to create wealth. The whole economy is orientated towards giveaways for alleged victims and new arrivals. When you 'earn' more on benefits than you do from an honest day's work, you know something has gone severely wrong.

I do think there is a strong argument for being in the EEA though. I wasn't convinced by the idea of trade deals with US and bloody India.

[DryGermanGuy]

You know, the thing that really puzzles me with that whole Brexit schmexit - one of the major plot points was to get rid of the non-EU migrants. So why were the political proponents not prepared with the legislative footwork behind it, at least from the very moment it was to be successful? I know BoJo is a lazy clown, just like Trump is, but at least Trump had some busy evil minds like Miller, Cheung or Bannon doing the work.

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy Well remember that 'evil right-wing Tory' BoJo let in 900000k net in a year, more than any of them. That's why they're called the uni party. The establishment has no intent on lowering immigration because it's part of the globalist agenda. Some of the policies are so silly and just... insult the intelligence of anyone taking an even passive interest. 1 in, 1 out schemes, smash the gangs, Rwanda. All plain silly. All to keep the plebs happy, but it's business as usual.

It's really easy. We have a natural moat. 'If you come here you will be detained and deported'. Leave the ECHR.
Remind the politicians that they're supposed to serve the will of the British people, who do NOT want mass migration. There is no democratic mandate for it. And above all cut the benefits. Because at work I'm seeing £3500 and £4000 being given to new arrivals who no doubt don't pay a fucking penny into the system. You do know, according to the census of 2021, that only 52% of Muslims work? Which means they are funded by the British tax payer who does work. Funding your own extinction. You can't make this shit up.

[Levin]

What is this that countries like Pakistan don't want their OWN citizens, their own child rapists back. How can you not take your own citizen back? I always say, it is quite simple, fly them over the country, boot 'em out of the plane with a parachute. Ban visas and all cooperation with countries who won't take their citizens back.
Revoke the residency of anyone who goes on holiday to where they are allegedly fleeing.

Also Boris Johnson was a completely superficial man with no back-bone. He was the one who umm'ed and ahh'ed to begin with during the EU debate and eventual referendum. He wasn't sure which side to go with. He has no convictions. He was a pansy during covid (although we should be thankful we didn't have Labour otherwise we'd still be under house arrest). He could have saved far more lives by telling the population to lose some fucking weight. And he should have told work places that you need to give your workers 20 minutes two times a day to do some exercise. Can be a brisk walk for the very fat and unfit. Or jogging. Or yoga. Or some basic strength training.

Bam, I've just saved a lot more lives than the unscientific gobbledegook that we heard during the so called pandemic. One of the glorious policies was shutting gyms but keeping fast food restaurants open as an essential (corporate) service.

[DryGermanGuy]

Don’t you think that forcing unwilling/blockading countries to take back their criminals would have worked better as a joint and closed European Union? Instead of trying that alone?

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy The EU is a waste of time. I'm completely against it. If you're asking why the UK is as bad or worse as being in the EU, in short, because we have followed exactly the same socialist policies. In fact, we have turbo-charged them.

The EU doesn't want to remove those people deep-down, nor does the UK. That's why it continues. That's the long and short of it.

The politicians are sadly infected with the same socialist/globalist/toxic empathy tendencies. Plus a glut of low and slave labour classes suits the corporate agenda. Least I can get my take-away delivered for peanuts, right?

Rights are always in conflict. And the Bloc, and the UK, have chosen to put the rights of rapists, child-fuckers and murderers above that of the women and children in society.

I voted in favour of remaining in the EU (chiefly for economic reasons). The philosophy of the era, or the zeitgeist, or whatever you want to call it - draws you in. You're not aware that you're seeing things through a prevailing paradigm which curtails your field of vision and possibilities. But now we can see how bad everything is getting, and there is no excuse for making the same mistakes. People really must wake up.

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy The problems, or impossibilities, we have with those already here is one thing. But, we're STILL importing them on mass. Still importing people who will not integrate or respect our culture.

[DryGermanGuy]

The UK is not "importing en masse", but it apparently has no efficient methods for removing unwanted immigrants. Other European countries do, though. It's just that we have to increase the numbers of people and numbers of home countries to deport to.

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy Then what would it take to be importing en masse?

Pre 1997 it was 30k net per year.

Last year, with Labour's 'grip and control' on immigration, it's net 350k non-EU. 10x historical levels.
Under Bojo it was 900k net. 30x historical levels.

60% white British in school. 47% in nurseries.

Demographic replacement of the native population, de facto already, in the space of a generation, is not importing on mass?

[DryGermanGuy]

Importing would mean an active deed to bring people in, that's not happening, obviously. The UK is (too) passive in protecting their borders and removing illegally arriving people.

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy Oh okay, so it's just happening as some kind of accident? It's all intentional. Google is helpful:

"Boris Johnson’s government facilitated historic levels of net migration primarily through post-Brexit visa liberalisation and the introduction of unique humanitarian routes. His administration replaced EU free movement with an Australian-style points-based system, which intentionally lowered salary and skill thresholds for specific industries facing labour shortages. The key drivers of this migration surge under his leadership included:Humanitarian Commitments: The government introduced uncapped visa schemes for individuals fleeing the war in Ukraine and those relocating from Hong Kong with British National (Overseas) status. Post-Brexit Work Visas: The new points-based immigration system expanded routes for overseas workers, notably in health and social care, where the care sector was opened to international recruitment. Student Visas: Policies were liberalised to allow international students to work and remain in the UK for a period after graduation, drawing a massive influx of students, particularly from countries like India, Nigeria, and China. Economic Support: Post-pandemic labour shortages in logistics, agriculture, and hospitality prompted the government to loosen restrictions to support GDP and keep key supply chains operating."

[DryGermanGuy]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
- Hanlon's razor

[DryGermanGuy]

Case in point:
www.theguardian.com/.../boris-johnson-government-wasted-vast-sums-on-ppe-covid-inquiry-finds

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy Okay, I'm sorry, but you have completely trivialised and skirted over what I have said. So you want to reduce things to stupidity or good old fashioned British incompetence?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyv0vqp04pgo

Two of those asylum seekers were from that Great British holiday destination, Egypt. Why the fuck were they here?

The rape gangs?

Look. Any country has a basic duty to put and protect its women and children first. That is a healthy society and healthy men with testicles would do anything in their power to secure this. Something has severely gone wrong. The failure is wholesale and it goes deep. Superficially, as I said at the start, it's rooted in the toxic empathy, and indeed, general stupidity and philosophical intransigent insolence of the fat liberal Westerner who has had life far too easy - the after effects of the boomer generation, who projects his higher moral sensibilities on the rest of the world. But it goes deeper even than that.

But I think this conversation is over, don't you? Because you're like the other (albeit, you're not as bad) German (he's a fake German to be fair). On hearing that women and children are raped, he will immediately go to his favourite talking point, his boogeyman, Donald Trump. You are cold to the fact. So let's not waste our time.

[Levin]

dailysceptic.org/.../

Read the comments on the article. That is the only response to this disgusting state of affairs.

But I know, I know, 'Donald Trump did this'. 'Brexit was a mistake'. An unemotional brick wall of stupidity.

[DryGermanGuy]

You know, the difference seems to be that you want to blame some shadowy powers at work to weaken and destroy your country and I do not. You always seem two seconds away from blaming the „East-coast bankers“, as many of these disgusting conspiracy fantasies do. You could actually be political and demand, organize and vote for change. Every country can do this, we certainly do, as annoying and challenging as it is.

[Levin]

@DryGermanGuy Yup, 'Trump', 'Conspiracy theorist', 'Brexit', 'Liz Truss'.

While women and children are being raped.

Here's another golden nugget for you.

dailysceptic.org/.../

The phrase you can't make this shit up springs to mind.

You don't get it and you will never get it. You're completely devoid of any emotion or understanding about why people are so utterly pissed off. And then you profess to care about the plight of women.

What if it was your daughter? Your sister? Your mother? Would you care then?

Probably not, because we can't risk upsetting 'community cohesion'.

[NathanDavis]

as so far, it seems to be more "losses" than "wins"

so much so, that they have been trying for years, to replace the deal and even considering to just go back to the EU

it was a stupid idea from the get-go... and it just never got any better

[DryGermanGuy]

A loss. They left the large, common EU market and did not gain new markets. Is anyone still fantasizing about that "amazing trade deal" the Americans will give them?

[slatyb]

Huge loss, destroyed a large portion of the economy. The UK is now poorer than other western European nations.

[strateguy632]

they do not need to welcome immigrants. win.

[exitseven]

Win, the EU was nevwr really goint to succeed

[413kim]

win in long run