What do you think about a mom who was overdosed and which made her kill her 3 kids?

[Kelly6]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/lindsay-clancy-was-begging-for-help-before-killing-her-children-former-mother-in-law-testifies

Updates

2 d

I was reading her medicines she took and checked the side effects, 😳😳😳😳

I 100% blame the doctor,
Not Lindsay

[loveslongnails]

I'm going to borrow from maybe_maybe_not's post. I hope you don't mind?

" major psychotic breakdown."
" psychosis overlooked by medical evaluation"
" don't believe people suddenly snap out of reality. It's incremental, there (should) have been signs," " Unusually high stress levels, confused speech, delusional ideas, .."

This describes the President of the United States, Donald Trump. Point being, if there is ANY magat, Trump loving suck up out there who is screaming for Clancy to be put to death, or imprisoned for life, because a psychotic meltdown is "no excuse", then you better be saying the same things about your boy Donnie.

Don't try and come back with " well, he never physically killed anyone with his own tiny little hands". Maybe not, but he gave the orders, either directly or indirectly. "Take care of it" doesn't hold up in a just court, only in one of Trump's court.

Even if she's found "not guilty by reason of insanity", Trump is still guilty of the same behaviors.

Your question asks "who do I think about..."? I think I don't have enough information to make a worthwhile judgment, but the above definitely occurred to me.

[msc545]

This had absolutely nothing to do with the medicines she was given and everything to do with her psychiatric condition, which was not responsive to those medicines. Inexperienced doctors gave her the wrong medicines and missed the diagnosis of postpartum psychosis completely. She was absolutely not overdosed. She tried to get help from a number of sources who, to the extent the insurance industry would allow, provided some care, but obviously not enough.

[msc545]

The only thing this woman was really guilty of was getting extremely ill.

[msc545]

The failure to recognize mental illness and the denial of its existence in this case, is truly disturbing. In a civilized society which apparently we no longer have, we do not punish people for being ill.

[lightbulb27]

Our so called mental health system in personal experience is near total garbage. It may be it's far better in some scenarios than my impressions, since so much is held privately, how could I have the perspective? I only speak from myself and the people I've known that have had issues and retired therapists I talked with, I have very low faith in the system in general. The problem is the separation of church and state in my view... and a total reliance upon "the drug" as the solution to problems. That is kinda unique to USA. So many problems, are emotional and spiritual... some physical, and it's all ignored like the body is a bunch of parts. It's a joke and I encourage you to think outside wht you've been taught.

This week was another human failure, probably due to medications... see the fatal knife attack in nyc. This lady that killed her kids, maybe she needed a lot more, like admision to a hospital. That should be part of the program of having kids... the ability to get away from the stress to heal. Agree? Social cost...

It would be amazing if our society actually could stand up and provide a good system for people. I have no faith that it can.

Are you a psychiatrist, psycholgist, counselor or some other level? Curious... we have a kid going that direction. I wonder what kinda of person this field is best suited to.

I personally thank the system for failing with me... when I reached my own breaking point, I had the good fortune to take time off work to address my mental problem. The provided mental health system was crap. By taking it on myself, I found Christ. Christ address my problems. That may not be true for all people. I've seen some screwed up people... and they aren't fixable.

Just sharing some perspective, for what it's worth.

[msc545]

I'm a clinical and neuropsychologist. It's a mental health system is problematic or multiple reasons, but the lack of religious influence is not one of those reasons. Major reason is the intrusion of health insurance companies who simply do not want to pay for this type of care and do quite a bit to avoid it. In regard to medication, I should note for you that it is really cheap to get people drugs and really expensive to actually provide them with effective therapy. If the drugs worked well it might not be so bad but they really don't. In particular, antidepressants seem not to work well for most people but are still giving out almost routinely. This is not to say that they don't work at all but the infrequency of efficacy is a major issue. Another major issue is the the shortage of therapists which is due in large part, the fact that it takes at least 6 years after high school train, a confident therapist had to train someone at my level takes about 14 years after high school. This is very expensive and difficult training that not everyone can manage. Put all of this together and you can see why therapy is so expensive and difficult to obtain.

[lightbulb27]

That's helpful to hear from the inside.
I'd have a hard time supporting a more robust system by some kind of law because it seems so flawed as it is. It just makes it more flawed and more expensive, more people on meds. But having some kind of leave or extended leave, maybe. I'd have to see a system that's much more "open minded" to address the whole person. Note I know people in Canada... they get mental health help... and it's mostlly, useless as well. Anyways the issue being, people just abuse the system if had more leave and it gets expensive. A tough nut to crack.

I don't agree on the religious, I've seen it up close... I see the flaws, I see the benefits. There's healing in releasing the trauma, getting the emotional energies right. Not saying it works for all, I'm sure it wouldn't and plenty of screwed up religious people.

I can't imagine drugs are made that solve what in some cases, is a wiring problem. Drugs, in my laymans view, would only work if the physical deficiency or gut/brain needs rebalance. Even that though, is a mess. Imagine a world where a child is abused the crap out of at low levels for long time. Later in life they get professional help for depression and the answer is..."take these medications". That's laughable pathetic. The answer is to resolve the trauma and heal so they naturally produce the good chemicals.

[lightbulb27]

Lets put it this way... would you even date someone that was heavy on meds? I wouldn't even think about it. I hung out and went out with women that were on meds... many need meds to handle the emotional stress of losses. No way, they are wacky as heck, and those were mild cases. No way can I trust such people on meds, it's the first thing I looked for.

That said, anyone can go down this path and then have to deal with it later on.

FWW... thank God, I nor anyone in household takes any meds. My goal is to take none. All the people I've know that have taken a drug, leads to more drugs, which leads to death or severe weirdness.

[lightbulb27]

Its a fun subject and field for me, but I suspect I'd be miserable if I was trying to do your job. That, sounds impossible...

[msc545]

@lightbulb27 some drugs work some of the time. Drugs often have side effects. For instance, anti-anxiety drugs work really well, but the problem is that they're also usually pretty addictive. Antipsychotic drugs tend to work in terms of eliminating some unusual or maladaptive behaviors, but they, too, have side effects. Antidepressant drugs work to some extent in just a very few people. For certain conditions, such as bipolar disorder, if people actually take the medications, which are mood stabilizers, they tend to work pretty well and don't have terrible side effects. Overall, drugs are not bad, but they're not always very effective, and they do have side effects.

Psychotherapy works really well, but it is an art form, and not everyone is a good artist. Also, it literally takes years to learn how to do it, and it's extremely expensive for the end user. There are some conditions, like chronic psychosis and personality disorders, that psychotherapy doesn't work for. Some conditions, like personality disorders, are essentially incurable.

[lightbulb27]

makes some sense. I've seen some "bipolars" come out better on meds, but wasn't around them all the time. married to, is a different deal.
when my wife and I run into a problem in life and we've had a few, we go to figure out what needs changed. Make the changes, do some hard work, it usually works out.

I think the same on mental, spiritual, emotional, phsyical. There's probably some cases that need medicated as we don't know what else to do. But in general, strikes me as way over used. In general, our society is way over medicated in all forms. Other countries, don't have this level.

I do think, anyone whom takes meds, should not be allowed to have a firearm or sharp knives.

Consider the case of a depressed young man. Sitting at teh beach at a loss for his life... all the sudden, a really attractive girl walks past and smiles and flips her hair... she reminds him of someone he loved as a child. She's walking over to him to say hi. All the sudden, fireworks go off in his brain, a key unlocked the circuits to produce amazing chemicals. The ensuing love making, making out and such are other chemicals.

In other words, it's more relevant to find the keys that open up the pathways. I wouldn't want the woman to walk up to him and suggest he needs an anti-depressant so he can feel good to see her.

Granted, a really depressed person may not be able to respond, but you get the analogy. Inside the human, a healthy one, is all the chemicals to feel different ways, locked up... waiting to be released. Everything else, is a mask... unless there's some fundamental block in that person where they cannot produce some chemical.

[lightbulb27]

that's how I think of it. So I go looking for the blockages, that strikes me as more effective, albeit time consuming, expensive, and very difficult.

Drugs... ugh... that's what our system sells... a quick expensive fix, and it makes little sense to me. Most of it is made from oil feeder. If I have to, I'd rather have natural or make the changes. Some cases, have no choice of course.

[msc545]

Again some drugs work. Some don't condemning all drugs just because a few of them don't work or have side effects is fairly ignorant.

[lightbulb27]

It's a mentality shift. I've just seen people decay under drugs, die of it. Maybe it helps some. Of course some are essential, just seems to me it's way over done in our society. capitalism!

[msc545]

She absolutely was not overdosed, and if you think she was, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Kelly6]

@msc545 do you know the dosage?

[Shiprex]

Can we now look at all the men who have killed multiple family members and give them a get out of jail free card then? Since it's obviously mental illness that does those kind of things

[Kelly6]

@Shiprex metal illness and side effect are not same.

[Kelly6]

@Shiprex fyi I'm not defending her,
I'm saying her doctor is 50/50 in this.

[Shiprex]

Side effects can be made up and used to justify anything then.

[Shiprex]

The doctor has no specific knowledge of her INTENTIONS and neither does anyone else except her. She is TRYING to get a free ride out of murdering her kids through mental illness justification. The doctor just like all of them, prescribed the medication that was KNOWN to do particular things to people.

[sage2021]

If she is found guilty she should be sent to prison for the rest of her natural life.
Since she is paralyzed now, they may send her somewhere other than prison.

Killing you own children is nothing new anymore.

On October 25, 1994 Susan Smith loaded her 2 little son's in the back seat of her car, had them in their car seats then drove her car into a lake and they drowned.

She was married but had a boyfriend who didn't want kids.

[TonyMetal___1986]

This woman Susan shall be tied up and thrown in the ocean, where the great white sharks are found, mission accomplished!

[sage2021]

Thank you for the MHO 🙂🧡

[Kvass]

No need to call it an overdose to dilute her actions. She’s a murderer, straight to jail

[RavVid]

Know more about it now. It would have taken 4 to 5 minutes to kill each child. The kids would have been screaming - I guess that was why in the basement.

It wasn't just killings, the kids were tortured to death. Yet her mind was clear enough to give directions on the medicine to get to her husband.

[OlderAndWiser]

I would not judge the merits of a case on the basis of news reports from politically motivated “News” sources.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

From what I've read it looks like she experienced a major psychotic breakdown.

If my impression is right then I wonder how psychosis has been overlooked by medical evaluation, as I don't believe people suddenly snap out of reality. It's incremental, there should have been signs, the common ones considered by professionals, predicting that this breakdown was about to happen: Unusually high stress levels, confused speech, delusional ideas, hallucinations...

And yet, she's been given antidepressants instead of neuroleptics? It doesn't make sense.

If she truly is psychotic, medication she received doesn't make sense.

[msc545]

Well congratulations on being one of the few people. I possibly understood the course of the disorder in this woman. She was given one one neuroleptic drug to begin with about the dose was so small and that it would not have been sufficient to suppress symptoms of psychosis. She also I think like many people, was fearful of telling her doctors about her psychotic symptoms because she thought they might take her children away or send her away. I am critical of her medical providers for not being more suspicious of the symptoms she did have and her lack of response and the medications they did give her and just more suspicious based on the entire situation of a woman having to care for three very young children without any help. That is a situation that just screamed for outside help.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

Mental health is often a misconstrued topic sadly, and psychosis being confused with evil. I guess it's human, madness naturally scares us, it isn't intuitive at all to make sense of mental chaos. So what scares us ends up being shot or locked in a cage, so that we can forget, for a moment, this alleged evil we want away from us...

[Chazmatazz269]

She’s a criminal. There are tens of thousands of overdoses every year. Most addicts don’t use their addiction as an excuse for committing the most horrible crimes against the most vulnerable people.
Any man who committed the same crime under the same circumstances would be held fully accountable. If you think women should get off easy, then you’re opposed to equality and the US Constitution.

[RavVid]

I think society will always struggle to deal with a mother murdering her infant and older young children.

Mothers don't always have vast love for their child. I've known one who decided she didn't like being a mother and skipped town leaving the baby parked with her boyfriend. The later wasn't the father by the way; a bouncer on a girls trip away was. So there is another incipient tragedy there.

It is more comfortable for society to want to think it is an extreme pyschotic event that has caused this but we have given killer moms very long jail sentences in the past.

One Australian mom who drove into a lake could only say she didn't feel herself and was dizzy.

[teresas_smith]

honestly just put a bullet in her head she tried to kill her self after she did it so so she knew what what she did was wrong

[Kelly6]

@teresas_smith fulfill her wishes !!

[teresas_smith]

better that than paying for for her prison stay for ever

[Chazmatazz269]

She faked a suicide attempt as part of her BS excuse. If she really believed what she did was wrong, she wouldn’t have hired a lawyer and there would have been no trial. She would confess to her crimes and accept her punishment, whatever that was.
She is fighting because she thinks that her life is more valuable than those three innocent children. She’s a remorseless cold blooded mass murderer of children. Full stop.

[EzraIsShy76028]

There's not too much to think of her. She's basically just a murderer and too dangerous to be out in society. Rehabilitation in prison instead of punishment in a perfect world could be good for people like her but she's just too dangerous to ever get out.

[lightbulb27]

I dunno. That is a real mess isn't it. Some things cannot be fixed and not sure how to live life after that.

my question is she vindictive and wanted them to suffer or just sick.

ya can't bring the kids back... sure don't want her doing that again.

[Clara4567]

She murdered 3 innocents she should pass her life in prison , even if I think that she will be sent in a psychiatric security unit.

[Dancer102]

I think that she should spend her life in prison and had no excuse to kill her kids

[Kelly6]

@Dancer102 she even tried to kill herself and jumped out of window but it only made her paralyzed

[SixFootSexy]

Imagine standing up for someone who killed innocent children. Just imagine.

Insanity.

[msc545]

Did killing him fix the problem and make everyone feel better?

[glennos89]

I rather dont judge people without having any conclusive information about their life and their mental state. But its a terrible thing to kill your kids ofcourse

[molonski2]

I think / know that she is a murderer..

But even worse a triple murderer of her own children , do her a favor , and the world a favor , waste no time , she must go.

[Twodogs0525]

What's fucked up, is the prosecutor's not only had the burden of proof of her murdering her children but also had the burden of proof that she was SANE when she did it! I can't imagine why the jury was confused...

[AviatorTom]

The question is an oversimplified description of a complex situation, as evidence by the fact that the trial ended in a hung jury mistrial.

[Paige2006]

Whichever she gets (mental hospital or prison) she should never get out.

[Kelly6]

@Paige2006
True

[Kelly6]

@Paige2006
Her doctor and husband both are also getting investigated, specially doctor

[Paige2006]

exhusband... He divorced her and remarried

[Kelly6]

@Paige2006 sure, no body wants to live with that monster

[6942Dantheman]

doctor yes. I don't understand husband.

[_Jenny_]

@Paige2006 I agree

[888theGreat]

Crazy , but not a real murderer. She also tried to kill herself. That is why she killed kids first. Just a mentally disturb person. Hey Trump is causing people to go nuts on a daily basis.

[exitseven]

@888thegreat obviously you have been nuts for a long time.

[Friendlybro79]

I have to know more to make an opinion and I'm not a mental health expert. This is tragic is the first thing that comes to mind. So that's what I think. My opinion is I need to know more

[NoDecision]

Doesn't matter. It was her choice to take drugs, and along with it, any consequences. It is still murder in my view.

[msc545]

The drugs didn't cause this.

[FunkyMonkee]

Who made her do it? Did someone hold a gun on her until she was done? Even so, what kind of weak, self-centered pussy would kill her own kids just to save her own life?

[FreyaRed]

Now every mass murder in US needs to swallow a week before 10 SSRI every day to get away with mass murder.

[Markella83]

She asking for help before this. But when she asked for help nothing done about. It seem like the system wanted.

[exitseven]

it is irrelevant whether or not the medical community failed her. She murdered her 3 kids with her bare hands. She need to go away forever.

[Just_Ken]

Plenty of fathers did this. Was Chris Benoit calling out for help.

[Ariesman81Nshiiit]

I've heard of people doing some fucked up shit on Ambien... but triple homicide? Nah!

A true gentleman would finish her off.

[6942Dantheman]

@Ariesman81Nshiiit but that's what it's called when you kill three kids at once.

[MrChinaski]

Any person capable of committing such an atrocious act must be insane.

Catch-22.

[MrChinaski]

Fortunately, she has recovered her sanity sufficiently to sue healthcare providers in an effort to make money from her celebrity killer status.

[msc545]

No, her attorneys s were smart enough to sue her healthcare providers. I doubt that she thought of this on her own.

[Justneedtokno]

They’re actually going on trial with her right now honestly insanity, postpartum, or nothing to take lightly

[fishbone77]

lol. She murdered her kids. Fuck her.

[Pohjolan]

Only question is whether she belongs behind bars in a jail or a mental asylum.

As she is willing to do that to her own kids imagine what she might do to a stranger.

[TonyMetal___1986]

Execution or throwing rocks at her till death in public

[fishbone77]

She needs to be put on death row

[dislikesmath]

Ooh my only God could forgive her

[6942Dantheman]

She killed her kids, she must die.

[_Jenny_]

@Kelly6 Horrific news

[Shiprex]

Jail should be her go to for the next while

[Bklynbadboy12]

She's fuckin crazy she should rot in jail

[ohsheeT]

Prison forever

[BCRanger10]

Which mom?