History and Literature versus Mathematics and Science

[knowmeyourself]

I read this statement somewhere and I would like to know what you think about it.

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement?

"It is more important for students to study History and Literature than it is for them to study Science and Mathematics."

Give reasons for your answer :)

[v0nDutch]

My fiance' is an attorney, and I'm going to go as far as saying that history and literature are useless subjects. His entire profession is based on the mastery of the English language. Sometimes the history of the Supreme Court, or legislation, or the common law matters. You have a librarian, you search the cases in descending order of dates, and you reconstruct the historical significance. Now, as far as literature goes, totally useless. Did you learn to write in English? Great! Write about science, or math, or the law. Don't write about Annabelle Lee. Otherwise, you end up with Scalia opinions. "Traditionally . . . we have treated women as property and used blacks as slaves, therefore, we should also keep doing what we've always traditionally done, because it's what we've traditionally done." (I know, you'd think the standards for being a Supreme Court justice would be a little higher).

Science and Mathematics are the "how" and "why" to questions and events.

History is the "what" happened over time.

Literature is the "who" and "where" to "what, how, and why" that nobody really cares about.

The people who make the most convincing arguments are Science and Math majors.

Literature majors try and use very floral and flamboyant language to try and fool the opposing counsel or judge into thinking he or she has a legitimate argument.

History majors try and argue that because we've done something in the past, we should do it in the present. Once you demonstrate a reason why an old way of doing things should no longer apply today, they're toast - they look like a deer in headlights.

Science majors explain "how" the rule works, and then apply the law to the facts in the case to show that the outcomes should be the same.

Math majors explain "why" the rule we have in place is the best, and why applying the same rule to the facts in the case would yield the best result.

In the end, History majors don't change the world, they only talk about how the world has changed. Literature majors don't want to admit they're not smart enough to understand math or science, but still want to feel as smart as the kids who are constantly surrounded by and reading books. Science majors provide tools and solutions for life's questions and problems. Math majors provide tools and solutions for science's questions and problems. So, I think based on everyone's intellectual capacities, people should not choose to study any subject that is beyond their mental capabilities.

[SunSeeker]

I...f***ing...love...this...answer.

I'm going to quote you for decades so you know...

i.e.: Literature majors don't want to admit they're not smart enough to understand math or science, but still want to feel as smart as the kids who are constantly surrounded by and reading books. Science majors provide tools and solutions for life's questions and problems. Math majors provide tools and solutions for science's questions and problems.

Sheer genius, well played.

[Ranta]

True, science is very important-- but you need an understanding of history to fully appreciate it. For instance, I'm currently studying abnormal psychology-- disorders and treatment methods. A huge component of my coursework is looking at various historical cures, because it is literally impossible to create new solutions if you don't understand what worked (and what didn't!) in the past. Your points are very valid, but there's no way to create a solution without fully understanding the problem.

[SunSeeker]

And the only way to understand that problem is through analysis, undeniable mathematically in nature. As v0ndutch said, "Science and Mathematics are the "how" and "why" to questions and events." (those questions and events being the causes of abnormal psychology). As a student of psychology, you should clearly know a huge component of this field is neuroscience, and can you guess how neurons work? That's right, the action-potentials release by the interaction Na and K ions in the axon.

[SunSeeker]

Back then we knew what worked and what didn't work through sheer trial and error, ultimately coincidence. We know now what works and what doesn't work now through the applications of math and science, the study of chemistry, and now we can explain why chemicals are better alternative to abnormal psychology than are lobotomies.

[Ranta]

Definitely! Science is incredibly important, and I'd be digging myself in pretty deep if I tried to deny that. But problem-analysis, ultimately, is based on history. It is "mathematical in nature", as you said, but we also need to know what happened and why. Maybe I phrased by comment badly-- I'm not trying to argue that history can replace science, but that the two will inevitably be intertwined. You can't argue which is more important, because in many cases one can't exist without the other.

[Ranta]

Of course, a huge component of psychology is scientific in nature. But we need to understand the history behind it in order to make any sort of advancement. In order to fully comprehend, say, why a neuron works, we need to go back to the roots of psychology in order to understand the basics. From there, we make use of our scientific knowledge to expand upon that definition. In short: we need to understand the evolution of a discipline before we can truly understand the discipline itself. :)

[SunSeeker]

"In order to fully comprehend, say, why a neuron works, we need to go back to the roots of psychology in order to understand the basics." - I don't see why, but if you say so.

I guess there are some that follow the path, and pave the path. Those that pave the path are said to do so for what they are doing, there is no recorded history. They MAKE it. Surely the record of it does not supersede the act itself. AND, I'm not saying documenting discoveries is not important, but referencing a document

[SunSeeker]

and studying history are two different things entirely. That being said, I prefer to be in the category of those who pave the path, but you're allowed to choose what you want to be.

[yawst]

History does show up in science. For example half of evolutionary bio is history. How did this rock formation happen? That's history in a sense. Thinking historically is a useful skill. I guess for me it's important not to get too caught up on history and also have some knowledge of underlying laws and dynamics.

[Ranta]

The key element of this quotation is the word 'study'. Nowhere is it assumed that history and literature themselves, as disciplines, are more important than math and science. The question is: who is studying them? Academics? University students? High-schoolers? Whatever the answer to that question, it makes a huge impact.

A few studies were conducted in American high schools this year, and they showed that the average high school graduate's English grade was the best predictor of college performance-- even if his intended major had absolutely nothing to do with the humanities. In other words, a physics major who had high school marks of 85 in physics and 95 in English stands a better chance at doing well than one who had 95 in physics and 75 in English

In college, it's extremely important not only to understand concepts, but to be able to articulate yourself well when expressing them. Chances are that no matter what your major, you'll wind up writing a few essays at some point (yes, even in physics or math-- my cousin, a physics major, just finished his third essay in two months). If you pursue further education, you'll need to write and defend a thesis. And you won't do well at all unless you've learned some solid writing and communication skills.

In my opinion, this quotation isn't saying that literature is more important than math overall. But at a high-school level, it will teach you skills that math won't. In English class, you'll need to learn to analyze novels, to strengthen your writing abilities, and to express your ideas effectively. No matter what you do in life, at some point those skills will come in handy.

It's impossible to say which discipline, if any, is more important to the human race, because there has been so much interlap. But this question isn't asking about human beings as a whole; it's asking about students. The fact of the matter is a high-schooler can theoretically get by without learning pre-cal or thermodynamics (depending on their intended major, of course!). But if they don't learn how to format an essay, or analyze and draw conclusions from historical data, they'll be in serious trouble somewhere down the line, regardless of what discipline they pursue.

[Thiezz]

I assumed high-school. I doubt anyone in their right mind would suggest all university students study history and literature.

[Ranta]

Haha, definitely not-- then again, no one would suggest they all study math and science, either. ;) But yeah, it definitely wouldn't make sense if the question was reffering to university students! Imagine forcing a biochem major to take a Shakespearean lit class. :P

[yawst]

I'm a Biochem major and I took a modern poetry class. Much needed class...

[heavenonearth]

I would disagree. While history and literature are important subjects that I think everyone needs to be proficient in, math and science are essential to our everyday lives, the backbone of the world we live in. Math and science are crucial to solving the many problems the earth and humanity face. I love literature (it would be my field of choice if I didn't love biology and medicine so much), and history's alright with me, but they aren't going to contribute much in terms of advancement and finding solutions. In these instances I think that math and science are going to be undoubtedly more useful.

I'd also strongly disagree with people saying that you need arts and literature to be creative, or that they are somehow more fulfilling fields to be a part of, more worth living for. On the contrary, creativity is a requirement in any field of math or science, and people who truly understand these subjects have a passion and interest in them that is certainly very rewarding and worth living for. I've often been in absolute awe of many of the things we know and are able to do these days, and the thought that we can use this knowledge to help people really inspires and motivates me.

[SunSeeker]

Yeah, like how we can calculate the algebraic sum of an infinite amount of infinitely width-less squares to find an area under a curve, tell me that didn't take any creative genius to figure out! This is answer is perfect down to every letter of every word in every sentence, I agree 100%! +1

[heavenonearth]

Why thank you :)

[yawst]

Yeah I like biology and literature too and not a huge fan of history wither

[KERMlT]

History because it has a tendency to repeat itself. You really need to know where mistakes were made to avoid pitfalls in the future. Example: Russia would erase all records of missile launch failures like it never happened. It was something simple like rubber o-rings freezing and when they launch it broke the seal destroying the rocket. So they went through lots of money, manpower, and time due to pride.

Literature is good because one must know how to communicate to someone effectively. If you can't put what you are trying to say into words then what good is that knowledge? We learn poetry so we don't turn into heartless bastards bent on world conquest.

Science is good because we need to know how things work and to prepare for future events. It was surprising to find out that plate tectonics is a relatively new concept. That's why we have volcanoes and earth quakes. Did you know there is a thing called a mud volcano? :D Build that for a kid's science project and explain where one is located. Gosh, it's great to be smart. :D

Math is good for lots of things. I went into calculating a pimp's average yearly income already today but there are other applications. Figuring out if you are the father due to how many weeks she is pregnant will avoid a trip to the Maury show. :D We also use a lot of math in architecture and astronomy too.

But as far as which one is more important, who knows. We obviously know you don't have to be a genius to become president.

[knowmeyourself]

Haahahaha :)

[SunSeeker]

It was something simple like rubber o-rings freezing and when they launch it broke the seal destroying the rocket. - Sounds like a Physics problem.

Literature is good because one must know how to communicate to someone effectively. - Yes, communicate the laws of the Universe.

[Disputin_Rasputin]

Does this even need to be asked?

From all the answers, it blows my MIND that the majority of people think History and Literature is more important than Mathematics and Science and it really shows why the US is a declining powerhouse when it comes to Science and Engineering

Without Mathematics and Science, you people wouldn't be able to voice your opinion on this website in the first place.

Science and Mathematics is the single deciding factor that has pushed civilization forward through the ages; it is the factor that has allowed us to EVOLVE from stone tools to laser-beams, from papyrus to word-processors.

Without Science and Mathematics, other fields of Academia would not have flourished; printing presses and the Internet are the fruits of Science and Mathematics, not of Shakespeare, not of a historian, and certainly not from someone who wrote poems. If not for Science, you people would have to travel large distances to even read and analyze historical texts and literature, though, without Science and Math, you would still have to be prepared to walk and swim very large distances.

So, in summary, History and Literature owes a lot to Mathematics and Science and hence cannot be more important than it, as the former is a direct result of the latter.

QED (Quod erat demonstratum)

[kereru]

Your Latin quote at the end there owes itself entirely to history.

[Disputin_Rasputin]

Not overly; it owes itself to the very first Mathematicians, who were the Greeks. It's not so much the product of analyzing the past as it is the product of passing down tradition.

[SunSeeker]

This answer just owned all. The only comment she was capable of was pointing out the latin quote lol, what a feeble attempt to dismantle this beautiful proof.

[RedThread78]

Best answer right here! I love this answer.

[Ranta]

You make some really solid points, but you're forgetting one thing: language. Argueably the single most important invention in history. And, while it may count as 'technology', it's far more closely tied to literature than math. You're absolutely right in saying that we couldn't voice our opinions online without math, but we couldn't do so at all without language. Literature, while maybe not 'more important' than math, allows us to learn to use language and express our thoughts, (cont.)

[Ranta]

which in turn enables us to develop new scientific ideas and further society. Likewise, history is vital to math and science in that we need to examine the development of a discipline in order to truly be able to understand and advance it.

I'm not trying to argue that the humanities are more important than science, but instead that they complement one another. Science would lose its meaning without history and language, and there would be no historical advancement without science. ;)

[ROTFLMFAO]

math and science = part of history. without any recorded history, inventions would be useless. we'd still live in the stone age, experience = source of learning and development. creativity implies a deviance from past experiences and procedures. it is important that creativity is based on past experiences and that from old situations learning is related to future experiences.

[SunSeeker]

I guess by what THIS ^ moron said, if a cure for aids was invented right this very second, it's useless without history. You hear that bro? I'm thinking of becoming a history major now, it's apparently the most important ingredient in making revolutionary societal improvements.

LOL

[ROTFLMFAO]

sunseeker can't deal with the fact he's intellectually inferior. he doesn't understand simple things. he even thinks math is more important than language! LOL! how am I supposed to take him seriously?

"if a cure for aids was invented right this very second, it's useless without history"

if history didn't exist (science is part of recorded history) people would be unable to invent a cure for aids/cancer and so on. it's not that hard to understand.

[Disputin_Rasputin]

Uh, seeing how you folks have flooded my answer with responses, I need to tackle these things one at a time.

@Ranta: I agree with most of what you say, but there's a very significant difference between literature, that is, the "art of words", and linguistics, which is the "science of language".

Linguistics is the fundamental building block on which anything language-related is based. As such, it is thanks to linguistics, not literature, that we are able to communicate as we do today.

[ROTFLMFAO]

read again: language = most important invention. language = more closely tied to literature than math/science. it doesn't matter if language is more closely tied to linguistics than to literature. it doesn't change the fact that communication (= learning a language) is much more important than math/science. language is the single deciding factor that has pushed civilization forward through the ages. the most important thing taught is the ability to read. without that, all the rest = pointless.

[Juker]

That is the single most silliest thing I've ever read. History isn't going to get society any where. Math and science are. that's why its called..."HISTORY" meaning PAST meaning THERE IS ANYTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT ANYMORE.

Its done for, humans are naturally made innovators, we create, and move on, not look back and feel butthurt about all of the things we went through.

Learning history didn't let humans harvest electricity

Learning history didn't revolutionize transportation

Learning history didn't re=imagine communication

Learning history didn't land a man on the moon

Learning history isn't what brought the greatest countries to the top.

Re-inventing technology did all of these things. The simple fact of the matter is, knowing your history just isn't tangible..It has never, nor will never bring humanity FORWARD.

After all, how could we possibly move FORWARD, when we are looking BACK?

I think it should be dropped from high school curriculums period.There's absolutely nothing we can do about the past, why waste our time and money forcing kids to learn it. It should be an elective at most. Its not going to create fuel efficient modes of transportation, reverse the harmful effects on the atmosphere, create other means of energy, or supply resources to the growing population on earth. and certainly won't move humanity toward its ultimate goal- To get the hell off of earth. But I do agree that history and literature are indeed as important, but no where near paramount to math and science. Its better to have both, than to be lop-sided. But if you must choose one, it has to be history.

[Juker]

"if you must choose one, it has to be *math and science" oops, I done goofed XD

[Thiezz]

> Learning history isn't what brought the greatest countries to the top.

I'm not so sure the countries at the top are the greatest countries, but let's ignore that for now. Tell me, without using any knowledge of history, the answer to your own question. :p

> After all, how could we possibly move FORWARD, when we are looking BACK?

How do you know you're moving forward, if you don't know what 'back' is like?

[Thiezz]

> and certainly won't move humanity toward its ultimate goal- To get the hell off of earth

Why would we want go leave earth? If you think conditions on earth are bad, anything other celestial bother in our neighbourhood is infinitely worse. We have hundreds of millions of years left on this planet before conditions here become tricky.

[FierceMegan]

I was going to go there, but Thiezz beat me to it.

[ROTFLMFAO]

learning history means learning from mistakes. learning history did land a man on the moon. we are only moving forward because we are looking back. past experience really does help when we have to make complex decisions based on uncertain or confusing information. without past experiences = no creativity = no inventions. the man who teaches math/teaches you how to write, teaches history. every new invention becomes history and we learn from it.

[SunSeeker]

TELL ME HOW ALL OF YOU FOOLS EVEN POSTED YOUR COMMENTS TO THIS WEBSITE WITHOUT THE USE OF TECHNOLOGY?!

I rest my case.

And, no past experience = no creativity? Not sure where you got that one, although it does an awful lot like an equation...

[kereru]

Without any recorded history...how would the world have ever remembered Pythagoras and built on his knowledge?

If history is not important why do scientists study geology and dinosaurs to learn more about the earth today?

[SunSeeker]

Without the creative genius of Pythagorus (along side many other mathematical pioneers), what would there have been to record? Knowledge starts with information, information is obtained through purely mathematical processes, and if you really want to get into the philosophy of THAT I assure you it's a dead end...

[ROTFLMFAO]

sunseeker, you got owned. without any recorded history, inventions would be useless. we'd still live in the stone age, experience = source of learning and development. creativity implies a deviance from past experiences and procedures. it is important that creativity is based on past experiences and that from old situations learning is related to future experiences.

[SunSeeker]

If I invent a cure for AIDS to day, how is that useless without history? LOL, you f***ing idiot.

[ROTFLMFAO]

sunseeker can't deal with the fact he's intellectually inferior. he doesn't understand simple things. he even thinks math is more important than language! LOL! how am I supposed to take him seriously?

"if a cure for aids was invented right this very second, it's useless without history"

if history didn't exist (science is part of recorded history) people would be unable to invent a cure for aids/cancer and so on. it's not that hard to understand.

[SunSeeker]

lol intellectually inferior? hahahaha your delusional jokes make me laugh.

again I pose my question, that you still cannot seem to answer.

"If I invent a cure for AIDS to day, how is that useless without history?" When you give me an answer to this question, then maybe we canhave a discussion. until then, you're clearly a moron.

[SunSeeker]

btw, "if history didn't exist (science is part of recorded history) people would be unable to invent a cure for aids/cancer and so on. it's not that hard to understand." apparently it is because you still don't get it. science MAKES history. i.e., the discovery the earth was not the center of the universe. That's one for the history books, and not the other way around, you pseudo-intellectual

[SunSeeker]

You forget we're discussing the STUDY OF HISTORY, i.e. the study of past human events, not referencing past documents. As much of a proponent of hist./lit as you are, you clearly cannot read and comprehend what is being asked.

[Juker]

You guys are acting foolish. I never once said History wasn't important. I simply stated that it is not more important than math and science. For a bunch of people trying to back up Literature, you all can't read very well. Lol.

[ROTFLMFAO]

LOL you are so retarded. it is spelled "today", not "to day". I already gave you an answer to your "aids-question". it's not my fault that you're too retarded to understand it. look, without historians of science, math + science = useless. thanks to historians of science (authors of medicine/math books and so on) people learn new things every day. if they didn't exist, schools wouldn't even exist --> there would be no progress (= impossible to invent a cure for aids).

[Juker]

You all missed the point. I never said History and lit werent important, I just stated that they were in no way more important than Math and science. For a bunch of people trying to defend literature, you all can't read very well. ;)

[Thiezz]

Actually I think science and history are most important, then mathematics, and finally literature. Science and history help one understand how the world works and why things are the way they are now. They enable one to put things into perspective. Some knowledge about mathematics is useful for decision-making, especially financially. Literature, for those who enjoy it, is a great hobby, but ultimately not that important. I hate studying literature but love reading.

I'd like to add that I've seen many of your questions lately and I enjoy them very much. They are quite different from the other questions and usually thought-provoking.

[knowmeyourself]

Thank you, Thiezz :))

[FierceMegan]

Agree!

[SunSeeker]

Math is THE most important. Science cannot be understood without it? Name a science in which you don't need math, I dare you...

[Thiezz]

In biology you can get a lot of stuff done without math, especially on the subject of anatomy. Large parts of chemistry and physics can also be understood without math.

Look, I'm not saying we abandon teaching math, I'm just saying I think most people should have a background in history and science. If you want to become a scientist/engineer/whatever, of course you need maths, and lots of it. My point is the vast majority of people is not going to be one of those things.

[Thiezz]

I want people to know space is mindbogglingly big, and not a great place to live. To know that stuff is made out of molecules and atoms. That you can't acquire telepathy (or other powers) through genetic modification. How evolution works. To understand what the most important human organs do. That people rarely behave rationally. The differences between a virus and bacteria. How bacteria acquire resistance to antibiotics. Math is not that important for all of those things.

[SunSeeker]

What can you know of your biology without the use of a microscope? What can you know about different species without the mathematical system of classification known as the dichotomous key?

"Large parts of physics and chemistry can be understood without math." LOL, fail. That's like telling someone I can write without knowing the alphabet.

But you're right, people SHOULD have a background in history, but it is surely not superior to mathematics.

[SunSeeker]

A vast majority of people are not going to be a scientist/engineer/whatever merely because they are not capable. I can't even tell you how many people have given up on their dreams of being something just because of their fear of math. It's absolutely pitiful. But hey, if you can't do math, do history/literature!

We only know space is mind boggling and inhospitable due to physics. I assure you we didn't find this out through first dipping our feet in the water.

[SunSeeker]

We know stuff is made of atoms and molecules thanks to Avogadro, a physicist, not a historian or an author.

Math is crucial in understanding genetic, and knowledge of telepathy and other powers is the realm of physics.

Saying math is not important in any of those things is akin to saying the knowledge of the inner mechanics of a vehicle is not necessary to traverse, merely that there is a gas pedal and wheels.

Math is in EVERYTHING, only the mathematically illiterate do not know this.

[Thiezz]

> Saying math is not important in any of those things is akin to saying the knowledge of the inner mechanics of a vehicle is not necessary to traverse, merely that there is a gas pedal and wheels.

Eh, yes, that would be true. The vast majority of people can successfully operate vehicles their whole lives without understanding how they work. I also live in a house without understanding all the physics relevant to architecture.

[Thiezz]

Note that the question isn't "Which subjects are more important in the world!" but "Which subjects are more important for students to study?" I think more people could benefit from many of the examples I've given than from advanced calculus or something like that. If someone intends to study something science-related then of course they should study math as well.

[SunSeeker]

Lol how did I know you would pick on that? I worded that poorly, but what I meant to imply was that the idea of a vehicle is not POSSIBLE without knowing the inner mechanics. Simply knowing the concept of the wheel is not sufficient.

Either way, that was the ONLY thing you had to say in rebuttal to the complete destruction of your own examples lol. That in itself says volumes to me. :)

[Thiezz]

Also as someone who studies computer science I may not be as knowledgeable on the subject as those who study physics or mathematics, but it's by no means reasonable to accuse me of being "mathematically illiterate".

[SunSeeker]

"I think more people could benefit from many of the examples I've given than from advanced calculus or something like that." - Who cares what you think, it's erroneous. The examples you gave I completely DISMANTLED, there's no way you can think an understanding of mathematics is not important in any of the examples you gave, especially not after I just demonstrated the mathematical relevance.

[SunSeeker]

Metaphorically, you are quite literally saying you think people would benefit more from reading books than they would from even understanding the alphabet. Anyway, I'm done you clearly are hopelessly ignorant.

[Thiezz]

Fine, I'll address some of the other points.

> What can you know about different species without the mathematical system of classification known as the dichotomous key?

No understanding of mathematics is required to understand that system.

> LOL, fail. That's like telling someone I can write without knowing the alphabet.

How is this even a rebuttal?

> We only know space is mind boggling and inhospitable due to physics

Yes, but no mathematics is required to understand that conclusion.

[Thiezz]

> We know stuff is made of atoms and molecules thanks to Avogadro, a physicist, not a historian or an author.

And you know these things about Avogadro thanks to history... and I assume he authored something at some point in his life, or did he tell you about his findings in person?

[Thiezz]

> Math is crucial in understanding genetic, and knowledge of telepathy and other powers is the realm of physics.

Some very basic math is required to understand heredity, but understanding that there are genes that lie on chromosomes, and that genes are responsible for traits... all that stuff requires no mathematics. Now if someone were to actually perform experiments concerning genetics, a solid understanding of statistics and related math would of course be required.

[Thiezz]

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you because you're not going to change your mind and you're very rude, so goodbye.

[kheserthorpe]

Disagree strongly.

For a few years, I studied pure math. My brain was never sharper - not just in quantitative areas, but my general ability to think and reason.

I think for someone with the aptitude, mathematics and philosophy would be the best program of study.

People who act like science and math isn't 'creative' or is disconnected from life are generally terrible at science and math and don't understand them at all.

[knowmeyourself]

I have a strong passion for Mathematics. I love it! :)

[kheserthorpe]

Also, apart from learning what the scientific method is, most science you learn in school could be taught in a month if your math was good enough. I mean we spent months on newtonian motion. Let me summarize - assume accelaration due to gravity is a constant, integrate twice. Next subject ...

[knowmeyourself]

Hahaha Yes. Mathematics is a very important tool, in my opinion.

[SunSeeker]

BEST, EFFIN, ANSWER. Thank you.

You know how calculus came out? Liebniz's and Newton's creative thinking in how to solve the problem of finding the tangent line to a curve and the area underneath the curve. Even how someone figured how to solve limits of functions approaching infinity, sheer creative genius! [phone] if I could.

[kheserthorpe]

I think most people think of 'math' as 'calculation'. When I was in math, I had a calculator, I pulled it out once a term to calculate what my average was. The rest of the time is abstract thinking, analysis, proof, combining ideas to infer new ideas.

There are some brilliant analysts studying history, but a lot of terrible ones as well. Knowledge is useful, analytic ability is more important, at least as the core of one's studies.

[SunSeeker]

Agreed, but only those who are mathematically illiterate would that deny analysis of ANYTHING is purely mathematical in nature. And yes, that's how my conceptual physics class is, most of everything is just manipulations of variables through sheer logic. Actual calculations are rare, until the very end.

[kheserthorpe]

Math is taught so badly in north America at least that its ... just depressing.

[SunSeeker]

You know, I COMPLETELY AGREE. When I was a freshman in HS, I hated math as a result of my instructors doing such a poor job at demonstrating it's relevance. Once I took geometry in my sophomore year, I FINALLY saw how math was in every conceivable thing with NO EXCEPTIONS. It was then I grew a thirst to know more, which I can honestly say will never be satisfied.

[kheserthorpe]

Not only can they not show relevance, most of them simply can't do anything beyond some calculations.

They've tried to move the curriculum for young kids where I live to being more 'thinking mathematically' and less rote stuff ... and its clear to me as a parent that many of the teachers can't understand the stuff they're teaching. In grade 2 and 3 math.

[AllDay]

LOL

I love this question

Personally I believe this is why everyone is different and why we should get along its because there are no people alike! Everyone is good at something! I may excel at something in which you don't and vice versa! Granted they may agree on everything but that's the beauty of it!

P.S. I've always wanted to say this joke so

Let me say this:

If the world was going to end and we are traveling to this new "Earth" where we would have to repopulate and rebuild everything?

who would be some of the first people on this new planet?

Writers?

or

Engineers?

Historians?

or

Doctors?

Granted the writers and historians would come but only after the engineers and doctors.

[knowmeyourself]

:)

[AllDay]

Oops!

It's supposed to be "Granted we may not agree on everything but that's the beauty of it!"

not "Granted they may agree on everything but that's the beauty of it!"

[SixStringSeal]

There are good things to take away from all of them. I would probably say that literature and science are the two most important of the four however. Especially science, I don't see how anyone could say that science isn't one of, if not, the most important of the basic school subjects.

With history you have to be a little careful about who the sources are and understand that you're generally reading a subjective interpretation.

Math has its uses and can be applied to the other fields but it usually isn't taught in a way that makes it interesting.

[SunSeeker]

I don't see how anyone could say that science isn't one of, if not, the most important of the basic school subjects. - I KNOW, it's absolute madness!

Math has its uses and can be applied to the other fields but it usually isn't taught in a way that makes it interesting. - Pure math is the source of it all, all other sciences are derivatives of...

[windy-rose]

They're all important in they're own right. While I certainly don't believe everyone needs a degree in one over the other, everyone certainly should have a working knowledge and appreciation of all of them.

Math and Science are a study of how our physical world functions, History and Lit are essentially a study of the people that populate it. All significant and describe the beauty and workings of the world from different angles.

And understanding and being able to see things from multiple views and approaches, and being able to synthesize them together is one of the most useful things you can learn.

[Anonymous]

I'm not entirely sure if I agree with that statement or not.

It makes me think about the whole psychological debate between left brain and right brain hemisphere people. Supposedly, the left side is responsible for logic and analysis and the right side dictates one's intuitiveness and creativity.

And your question basically is asking if it is better to be creative/emotional (an History/English person) or logical (Science/Math person). Personally, I think it's dependent upon the person, and what they enjoy and are passionate about. Different skills are required for being a scientist person compared to a historian and you can usually tell what your skills and weaknesses are and then correlate them. You're most likely going to excel at what you're naturally good at.

[Dantemustdie]

I don't agree with the statement, being a scientist myself, I have come to understand that everything is linked someway or another, we all have common grounds in the world we live in. It doesn't matter if you study art, music, science, theology, or anything else, knowledge is knowledge, neither one is more prioritised over the other. Only a fool discriminates between them and true intellectuals recognise them all

[Ranta]

^This exactly. Every single discipline has unique benefits and importance, and denying that just shows a lack of understanding. Well said! :)

[Dantemustdie]

I like to think of mind as a prosperous meadow without any fences, people usually have ideologies in their heads that one area of study is somehow 'better' or more appropriate than another, but in my mind only idiots take this standpoint. I've come onto this earth to learn as many things as I can about anything I can get my hands on, there are no barriers in my mind. People limit their learning by having predetermined views on certain topics, that's bs, there is no limit to my will to learn

[yawst]

The best answer I think.

[cjwright79]

Why? Why you ask? Because if taught well, it's simply far more interesting. Leave math and science to the autistic nerds, I'll take my history and literature thank you very much. Most of the serious problems mankind faces are from its own pride and vanity, so if you want to solve those little niggles you need to get to know the beast better. Math and science is good for building a better iPhone, but what if iPhones only degrade man in the end, then what? What's the point of all your fancy pants technology if you end up making everyone into a stupid, soulless, vacuous drone?

[windy-rose]

I have to disagree, math and science shouldn't just be left to the nerds (we're not all autistic)

If no one else understands what they're doing and creating, fear will be bred, which history will teach leads to no ends of trouble. Or tea baggers and conspiracy theorists.

[cjwright79]

Sorry, you'll have to explain to me how math or science has helped anything.

[SunSeeker]

I hope you're kidding, if not, how embarrassing...

[cjwright79]

oh please do f*** off you fool

[SunSeeker]

Math and Science *ARE* better, coming from one who values English more, I'm astounded you'd miss that.

And what's the point of our fancy technology? THIS RIGHT HERE, the exchange of ideas, hopefully some of which will increase your IQ in need...

[ASjun]

Yea fail answer. It is good to know history and literature but at the end of the day math and science win. Everything you own has been created by technology.

[cjwright79]

Math and science are for autistic people, end of story.

[yawst]

History is for losers. Someone who can fix a computer or understand a disease is far more impressive than your silly rambles about president Garfield. No one cares about your subject.

[yawst]

I like literature though just to be fair

[decentusername]

I think it all depends on where you live, how old you are, what you want to do in life, and so on.

But I think without history and & literature there is a lack of creativity, and without science and maths there is a lack of 'core' knowledge

but I would choose history and literature any day BY FAR.

[knowmeyourself]

Why would you choose history and literature by far? because that's what you'd like to study or there are different reasons?

[decentusername]

i'm just better at it and find it WAYYYY more interesting (x

[knowmeyourself]

Nice! :)

[decentusername]

(:

[Thiezz]

What is so creative about history?

[decentusername]

helps with imagination

and I think it's more literature than history.

[SunSeeker]

THAT IS THE MOST ABSURD THING I HAVE EVER HEARD. And believe me...I use GAG...I KNOW ABSURD!

Let's put it this way, if all the people who think History and Literature are more important went to war with all the people who know Math and Science, who do you think would win?

DAMN RIGHT...enough said.

It's okay though, the losers can write the history books, because we'll make em ;)

[cjwright79]

with all due respect, you sir are a moron

[SunSeeker]

With all due disrespect, you sir, are an imbecile. When you get old and need medication, tell your doctor to tell you a story instead ;)

[slipslender]

well, you sir are a...

hi there :)

[SunSeeker]

Slippy Poo!

Hi :)

[kereru]

America has all the maths and science in their war in Iraq ...but if they had more knowledge of history and literature they wouldn't have been stupid enough to start it in the first place.

[SunSeeker]

Care to elaborate?

[SunSeeker]

I gave a somewhat silly answer before but in all seriousness, by History and Literature I'm referring to the act of scrutinizing the past in hopes of attaining new knowledge and "creative writing," respectively. Obviously I don't mean the act of "remembering" something, nor am I referring to the act of "communicating" either, which are obviously important.

[SunSeeker]

I'd also like to note that Mathematics in itself is ALSO a language, and a language far superior to that of any other. It is universal, has syntax and grammar, is pure, and is constant. An equation will retain it's value indefinitely, this cannot be said of any other language in which the meanings of words are constantly changing.

[cjwright79]

Medication is for schmucks. If you get old and sick why not go with some f***ing dignity like the last Pope.

[ROTFLMFAO]

lol, you're f***ing retarded. math is a language that is more important than "normal" language? lol, I can't take you seriously. stop embarrassing yourself...

[SunSeeker]

You think I'm insulted by being called retarded by a mathematically illiterate fool? LOL, that's like getting butthurt by an obese person calling me fat...

"without any recorded history, inventions would be useless." - Well we don't have any recorded history on this wheel I just invented, I guess that makes it useless.

And math IS a language, and I CAN communicate information with it UNIVERSALLY. 1 + 1 will always equal 2

LOL please... only one embarrassing themselves is you.

[ROTFLMFAO]

math is a language, but it's definitely not more important than "normal" language. I'm pretty sure you agree, but you simply don't want to admit defeat. it's ok... I forgive you.

[SunSeeker]

"normal" language? LOL. And no, I don't agree. That's not to say I think spoken language is not important, but sustain a society technology is necessary. This is not debatable. I forgive you for not understanding that.

[ROTFLMFAO]

LOL! it's obvious you are mentally challenged. communication/using languages is the single deciding factor that has pushed civilization forward through the ages. math is not nearly as important as communication. for your information, we're communicating right now. we de don't do math. the fact that you're unable to prove me wrong shows you got owned.

[SunSeeker]

Fact, communication isn't necessarily verbal, hence communication and language are similar, but not the same. Therefore you're all over the place, and can't even keep with the subject we're discussing.

Fact, we measure a society's progression through their technological advancements.

Fact, we're communicating through technology made possible by math/science.

Fact, you're f***ing idiot and an embarrassing to yourself.

but I find it amusing . thanks for the good laughs.

[ROTFLMFAO]

lol how do you communicate? how do you tell your mommy to make you a sandwich? do you moan at her? point at her? point at your mouth?

"Fact, we measure a society's progression through their technological advancements."

without communication = no technological advancements

Fact, we're communicating through technology made possible by math/science.

talking (in person) is (and will always be) number one "communication method".

[ROTFLMFAO]

it may be difficult for kids today to imagine life without a television, mobile phones, computers or video games; but in the middle ages, this was certainly a reality. technology is important, but not that important. you exactly know I'm right so stop trying to defend yourself. you have no good arguments/are unable to prove me wrong. it's pathetic...

[SunSeeker]

Considering your advocacy for language, you can't even read properly and realize we were discussing LITERATURE, not linguistics, as disputin pointed out. Now that, is embarrassing on your behalf. Why don't you do yourself a favor and get a dictionary and look up some terms before you think you can enter into an intellectual discussion?

[SunSeeker]

"lol how do you communicate? how do you tell your mommy to make you a sandwich? do you moan at her? point at her? point at your mouth?" - Technically I could, and did when I was in an infant.

"talking (in person) is (and will always be) number one "communication method." - Note, we were talking about how technology has made this exchange possible, not what is the best communication method, do try to keep up please.

[SunSeeker]

Also, the greeks were literate, but did they have computers, cell phones, GPS, macbooks, or touch screen technology? LOL .obviously not. Maybe an antikythera at best hahaha. Can you now see how literacy without advanced science/math doesn't lead to the level of advancement we see today? Probably not, because you're stupid, and no amount of information can change that. goodbye :)

[theshark50]

I would say Math and Science. I'm a math major so I'm kind of biased. The way I look at it is we use numbers (with the exception of some upper level math) everyday where as History really isn't that important. We can't ever really predict the future by looking at the past. And for Literature I just don't like reading :P

[Aisoreal]

Wow...asians (from the south, east, south-east etc) are going to disagree...to us science and math ensures great careers and high income, whereas history and literature are just 'blurgh' subjects that you need to know, but have very little use in life...I'm not saying this is true of all, but most...oh, and I'm studying English now and I LOVE history, but when I was in high school I was a pure science student, and in college an accounting student...lol

[SunSeeker]

[phone]. Tis the truth, even in the US. People who just suck at math and science don't to admit it. You know what I say? Good luck finding a job with a degree in History/Literature muahahahaha!

[ASjun]

Cause all Asians are good at math right? Unfortunately I'm not :(

[Aisoreal]

@sun seeker: lol...yeah, I gotta admit that there are more career opportunities in the sciences rather than the pure arts...but, applied arts, like linguistics and English have a lot of communicative and practical use too in the working world... :)

@asjun: don't worry, I'm on the same page as you..i suck at math too..but I scored an A in biology tho... :)

[magnoliacrush]

LMAO I didn't think of that until you pointed that out (the Asian thing)

[Aisoreal]

lol...haha...yup, Asians LOVE science and math (but there are those who don't..like me :)..and yes, I suck at math.. :P)

[Whistling_Dixie]

Straight from Dead Poet Society: Science and engineering are what we need to live but literatures and beauties are what we live for! (Or something like that)

The thing is, as an engineer or doctor, you can make a very good living. Make decent amount of money to finance your comfortable lifestyle. Arts, however, are what make your life is worth living.

Do you know that dentist, as a profession, has the highest rate of suicide?

[Whistling_Dixie]

Typo correction - ...your life worth living*

[blufrenzy93]

Really ? Why is that ?

[SunSeeker]

LOL, you must be joking. How many emo poets commit suicide? Surely more than dentists. Well, where ever you got your statistic, I hope they took into account all the artistic professions against math science professions.

Btw, some of the greatest artists have been mathematically inclined. I.e, Da Vanci, M.C. Escher, need I say more? Don't think so. :)

[Whistling_Dixie]

I was not knocking on science. Consider this: Whike I am passionate about arts, I am an engineer because I understand the power of applied science. I want my works of art to work properly.

P.S.: I am one of those who think that a well engineered piece of machinery is a masterpiece; the best manifestation of art. As an example, Porsche 911. Be careful, if you think that you have got it all figured out, how will you learn anything?

[brunettebelle]

No I don't think the statement is true, History and Literature are both very great subjects that need to be discussed and everything but I would say that you need Math AND Language Arts more. To be able to read and write well along with knowing how to add, subtract, multiply and divide.

[zickzack]

To study History and Lierature means, you will understand a lot of the world and you educate and develop more yourself, than you do by Mathematics and Science. On the the other hand you have to think at your future job. In this case often Science brings more money in your pocket than Humane Science do.

So it`s always an individual decision.

[yawst]

I think there is some truth.but not that much. It all is to individual preference. What's good about math and science is that they give you knowledge that you can actually use physically. History and literature are more about knowledge that shapes who you are as a person. Both have there place. Personally I never liked history but I can see its importance. Historical thinking shows up in science too like studying the earth or evolution or cosmology. Literature is important because it explores our subjective universe. Everything else is objective knowledge but art and literature expands the knower as a subject and not just as an object. My view on it anyway.

[tohrment]

Nope.

I think both have value. I actually think the opposite is the prevalent attitude in society, but never mind that. Both serve a purpose and cater to different strengths. :)

[knowmeyourself]

You are a history and literature lover, huh? :)

[tohrment]

Haahhaah they are my major and minor, so YES! :D And you're a science and maths lover, yes?

[knowmeyourself]

YES! You complete me =) lol

[tohrment]

^_^

[Thiezz]

You two are a match made in heaven... :p

[knowmeyourself]

LOL @ Thiezz!

[tohrment]

=D

[RealMenFly]

No. Because I don't see a reason why they would be. Science and Maths are necessary for the world we live in. Language is useful, Literature may make people think differently and History may give people perspective and understanding but they probably aren't as necessary, definitely not more so.

I think a lot of people say that because of pride. They see History and Literature as making them who they are and our society what it is and think we should learn it because of that.

[FierceMegan]

No, not really. I think they are equally important.

People who study Science and Mathematics are people that know about medicine and stuff. If it weren't for them I would be dead 23 years ago.

People who study History and Literature are usually strategist. Like people who study wars and things of that nature understand culture and tactics better. I want those people here too.

[SunSeeker]

Well, you partner up with all the people who've got strategies, I'll partner up with the people with the technologically advanced weaponry ;)

[FierceMegan]

Hell yea! It's on! =D