What is your opinion on the electric car evolution?

[OfMiceandMen]

Not sure what other countries are doing about this, but Canada's aiming to have electric cars in all/most people's driveways in the somewhat distant future. Do you think this a reality for most countries or is is shooting for the stars. I've heard/read the following:

- The batteries only last so long and at 13 to 20 K for Tesla's outside the warranty period.

- If you are charging on the go, you can wait hours for a charger due to line-ups, I've seen this at a few stations along the 401 in Ontario;

- More often than not, charger stations are out of order creating longer charging line-ups at popular station stops;

- The rare earth materials used in the manufacture of the magnets in EVs is a limited resource and mostly in countries where there are no limitations on the cost of these materials, similarly the Lithium in the batteries is not a renewable resource and the amount of dirty air industry to mine these materials will simply worsen air quality in these other countries. Does this just equate to an out of sight, out of mind feel good scenario;

- That just adding an at-home charging station in your garage may not possibly due to poor electrical infrastructure in most cities. The lines can easily be upgraded on your property, but the cities don't have the electrical power to support EV charging stations in everyone's homes.

Are these true? What's your opinion, do you think electric is the way to go or will the changeover have more environmental concerns in the long-run with waste battery materials etc.. Are we trading one necessary evil (carbon emission vehicles) for another that may potentially pollute the groundwater and surface water once the batteries start piling-up...

I've heard the same thing and EVs have not been entirely vetted yet...

I think they are a better choice because they are an alternative to carbon emission vehicles...

[Rosexøxø]

Yeah, burning electricity is still contributing to global warming and it still burns as fossil fuels.

We just need solar powered cars at this point. 🤦‍♀️

If the lifetime of the battery packs are short anyhow, AND expensive. These cars interfere with our economy and the common man/household today, as well as the actual planet/environment simply because it may be plastic or any other material that simply isn’t considered ‘biodegradable,’ just cause it takes way, WAY too long. The back log would be > than the decomposition. Leads to build up, and other complications.

It’s more than we humans, nature, and earth can handle, in short.

We need to stop being producers… of sorts. Of harmful processes. While INVENTING good ideas, to advance our society, or SIMPLY- maintain it. We need to learn to recycle, and not be HEAVY consumers of slow and natural (for good reason) processes.

- Just like mass usage of electricity in heat wave summers, or rainstorms, causes burnouts/blackouts. The same thing can happen to our earth, but entering that “black out zone,” could be extinction. And/Or destruction of our earth’s protective layer from the sun. So, same thing, essentially.

I’m not sure, maybe living organically IS the only way for us to maintain what we have year. It’s enough our souls can’t even support the weight of heavy modern machines. I’m simply saying driving one causes the particles to spread a bit. It’s like this, how can we expect natural earth to support INDUSTRIALISM?

It’s like placing an electric razor on a set of sticks or something.

Could’ve worded it better but that’s it for now.

I think the best invention made was solar power panels. They’re essentially modern trees in the one sense. It helps us to give out a lot of energy but also reuse it. Could there be a limit for them? Possibly. I’m not sure of it. All I know is we still need trees and plant life because they’re like any other living species that should be preserved if endangered. They house wildlife, they help regulate air for all, and help keep the soils in tact a bit better. I suppose trees and moisture are the only real differences that soil has compared to sand. Have you ever tried to walk on sand? I’m saying DRY sand from those deserts, where over time things get covered by it and lost for years and such.

What if that happens to our soil? I’ve already seen dry soil “behave” like that.

We need to keep flow, moisture, and certainly the species of trees to keep this planet a reasonable-to-live-in ecosystem for us all.

Just like pet owners need to keep tanks a certain pH level and moisture condition for a certain reptile, fish, or so. Humans also need this earth in a certain condition for US to live.

I trailed off here, yes, but I’m saying I don’t think electric cars are a real/legitimate solution.

Seems like a new toy for the rich.

I love Elon musk, but I can’t believe I heard him talk about it and thought “hey, this could actually be a GOoD Idea.” Clearly, the solution isn’t another form of burning fossil fuels, or production of non-biodegradable materials. That’s build up and burn out. We don’t need that. That’s more mess to clean up and not problem to try and fix. Unless he made this in hopes to create another “solution” to sell and make himself rich. Create a money making problem and then the money making solution to fix it. Like unhealthy foods and healthcare.

Solar powered cars, if it could be done, would seem the better option. Keeping cars and making them still means burning fossil fuels. I think we need to find a new manufacturing process as well. Before we implemented solar power cars. Using/burning electricity, and burning gasoline. Is just not it. And that’s only one variable. Production of cars and all motor vehicles needs an organic, environment-friendly make over as well. Otherwise? 🤷‍♀️ 🌎

[Rosexøxø]

I think modern man’s issues stem a lot from: lack of regulation. Lack of distribution. And interchangeably, impulse and/or personal selfish desire.

We’re either shortsighted as well, or tunnel vision impaired. We never see the whole picture. And it’s never even true tunnel vision because there’s always something further up ahead we don’t work out or prevent.

[OfMiceandMen]

Agreed, the person who can make a hydrogen engine safe (or something similar) will be the winner. Very simple engine system and the biproduct is steam/water. No charging or fossil fuels just intake of air, out comes water.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

All of the complaints about EVs have equivalents in fossil fuel cars. The stuff to make gas an oil is running out, lines at gas stations can he horrendously long, especially when there’s a sudden shortage of gas (I had to work at a gas station when a pipeline blew up. We ran out of gas within 5 hours, experienced three accidents, a theft, and a fight). The materials to make it are running out, and damaging to the natural environment. They’re not going to be any different from a gas car aside from the fact that you get to fill it up at home.

[OfMiceandMen]

I agree fossil fuel vehicles have their problems too, I'm not suggesting they're any better, I'm just trying to figure out are we trading one problem for another and EV's aren't really the solution.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Regulations are the solution, not EVs specifically. The every day person doesn’t have anywhere the carbon footprint of the 30 richest people on earth who are responsible for the transport over land, sea, and sky for all of the different exports and imports for their businesses that they own. The only reason they won’t convert to more energy efficient means is because they think the cost is too high. If we put out regulations forcing them to, we can start to see some improvement

[Bricealan]

@cupcakethedestroyer Dead on cupcake... you go girl!!!

[Daniela1982]

That's fine if you are not going from California to New York. Who wants to wait for a couple of hours to recharge your car on the Interstate? Our electric grid sucks now. Think how many blackouts/brownouts we would have if everyone had an electric car? And what's the point if they have to build new coal fired electric generating plants to meet the demand? I also hear that half of the charging stations don't work.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

The stipulation is for Canada, not the US. You can stay as you are

[Bricealan]

@Daniela1982 Daniela, that is not the case now, the chargers are Tesla Super Chargers and are being improved all the time. No such thing as waiting 2 hours for charging. Your information is also incorrect, with regard to many charging stations not working. I should know, I have had the car for 10 years

[NamerOfStars]

The SMART way to set up an energy grid (and that's energy, not just electricity) would be to have multiple power sources, so if there's a problem with one, you don't screw over everybody. So far, basically nobody has done this. Opened up a new nuclear plant? Great- but that doesn't get groceries on to the store shelves. If you want electric cars to replace gasoline ones, you need a few things we don't currently have:

1. a power grid that can reliably supply tens of millions of vehicles on a daily basis. We're nowhere NEAR that.

2. comparable (or better; that'd be okay, too) safety records. We're even farther here; current electric cars have killed more people with fires than Pintos. They've had more PROPORTIONATE fires than Pintos.

3. user-swappable fuel cells. My understanding is that this is still a ways away, but progress IS being made.

4. a very strong battery-fuel cell recycling plan. I haven't even heard anyone TALK about this.

5. As you noted, a reliable supply supply of rare earth magnets in a western-aligned country. The mining process for these is hideously destructive; you see it in China and in countries too poor to do anything else.

6. affordability- morons in many governments crippled public transit systems during the lockdowns, and they won't be coming back. The stereotypical well-intentioned but out-of-touch wealthy liberal does NOT, in fact, make up the majority of the voting population, or even the majority of the liberal-voting population, and you can't ignore the issues of the working class while claiming to be the party of the working class forever. Now, time WILL bring prices down, but not fast enough for laws that are currently in place.

Oil is a limited resource, and while ethanol can help, I'm not sure it can solve the supply issue on its own- and while the jury is still out on the environmental side, even at the best, it's not MUCH better. Eventually, we're going to need something else- but electric cars, even if they ARE the way of the future, are still a generation or two of heavy refinement away; governments trying to push them now are just going to turn people against the idea.

You can't change reality just by disliking it enough.

[Rosexøxø]

I support/second these claims, well said. 💯 Helpful perspective.

[NamerOfStars]

@Rosexøxø Thank you.

[OfMiceandMen]

Agreed, thanks for adding to some of the examples I already had, that's a pretty good list of things the manufacturers have to work on.

[Bricealan]

@OfMiceandMen I don't know where you get your information, but I can assure you as a Model S owner for 10 years, you are woefully uninformed

First off you are completely wrong about batteries. The warranty period on my S for Motors and batteries is 80,000 miles. My Model S has 106,000 and is as strong as day one.

Hours, wait time to charge? Where? If a person is not brain-dead, you don't wait until the battery is down to 20 miles to charge, you check the computer and see where the stations are, how many open stalls, and what, if any, is wait time! New Model S, has a range of about 450 miles, good as or better than ICE vehicles.

Along with the Model S, I got Solar and a Tesla Storage Battery, and I don't use the GRID, I send power to the GRID and get paid for it Quarterly.

Lithium batteries are being use to drive everything from Electric bikes, and most power tools and mowing and yard equipment, and obviously, Tesla is not the only EV manufacturer.

It would not matter if someone invented a car that would run on tap water, there would be those that sounded some environments concern or objections of some sort.

While in College, I had a wild eyed Professor made an insane statement that "If we took every gas burning car off the road immediately, it would be the equivalent of pouring a cup of water on a raging forest fire" ! That would seem to be the same mindless mentality regarding EV's and the envioronment.

[OfMiceandMen]

@Bricealan It's just what I've read, perhaps the US is more equipped right now due to Tesla and other manufacturers being directly in the the US. It's considered an import here, so things may not evolve as quickly with respect to charging stations etc.

Obviously, technology keeps evolving but I am going based on reviews and the few friends that I have that have purchased them.

I am not some diehard CEV person I work in the environmental field and hope that we come up with a solution, I simply think we need to look at any/all drawbacks before we commit to something that may not be possible due to the infrastructure etc.

I am a scientist, so I look at the pro's and the con's.

[Bricealan]

@OfMiceandMen Thank you for your well thought out and polite reply to my comments. You may not know that Elon Musk and Tesla, has built and continues to build Tesla charge stations, that, from what I hear, will be available to other EV owners at some point.

A question, to you sir as a scientist. I have often wondered of Tesla Charge stations could be SOLAR POWERED also, but that brings up the Technology of how much power the Solar could generate to power all of the Tesla charge stations at a given charging place?

[OfMiceandMen]

Considering the frequency of draw/demand for these on-the-fly charging stations, I anticipate one would need an array of large solar panels to keep up with that demand. The panels would take up more space than what the shopping malls and gas stations could likely afford.

However, one could supplement an at home charger with solar panels on the roof of the house where the draw is spread-out between usages and overnight, and additional energy could be put in reserve (batteries) or back into the grid.

[Bricealan]

@OfMiceandMen That is what I elected to do. Initially, I charged the car using the GRID for power, charging "off-peak" times but that still proved costly, and I went with Solar and Storage battery, but the initial cost was big, and I am still paying that off, which is the only 'down side"

[OfMiceandMen]

Approximately how large is the panel? and I am sure it's not something you can just buy at Walmart...

[Bricealan]

My storage batter is a Tesla battery about 3'x3' on the garage inside wall, next to washer/dryer.

[Sasquach]

The limited charging station issue is the only real problem from the list you brought up. Both EVs and gas intake require rare metals to make that's the entire reason why people steal catalytic converters. Not to mention gas intake cars are cheaply with more and more plastic these days, so both will have significant warranty related issues regardless of the perceived breaking point.

I only own gas intake atm, but if I were to pick my poison, I'd choose EV for the faster acceleration and autonomous driving / valet capability.

[OfMiceandMen]

So if they start putting up more charging stations and reduced wait times, you would head towards an EV?

[Sasquach]

Yes, although I think a hybrid might be better for the near future. Eventually, though, gas prices and inflation will drive the switch for most people

[OfMiceandMen]

Thanks 👍

[RavVid]

I've seen funny reports of an EV running over a branch and the repair was something like 60,000. Insurance companies are writing off EVs after minor collisions.

In the first case it was because there was a scratch on the underside of the floor pan. To be perfectly safe the batteries had to be replaced. Hence 60,000. I suspect insurance companies are writing off due to potential battery damage.

If you have seen videos of lithium battery fires you won't be surprised at this caution.

And then the batteries don't last that long.

I think it should wait till Lithium is phased out. Sodium ion batteries are non flammable. The US Natron company has commercial products already but not for EVs yet.

[exitseven]

The more these are used the more I realize that they are not very practical. They need to be less expensive, faster to charge, have a longer range and good resale value. Until then, leave me out of it.

[OfMiceandMen]

You hit a lot of good points, and I agree, once those points in addition to some others, the EV's may have a chance.

[OfMiceandMen]

... are met, the EVs...

[exitseven]

Yes and they need to be able to charge without bursting into flames too.

[OfMiceandMen]

Always a good trait for a vehicle.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s a joke. Like you said waiting in line for hours to charge your car. Which by the way isn’t going to be free after a while. The owner of those charging stations isn’t going to foot the bill for that. It still needs maintenance once in a while so who’s going to fork up cash for that? This whole nonsense about global warming, etc, etc, it’s a joke. The gov’t telling people to conserve water while plant nurseries use thousands of gallons of water a day to water their plants. Up until recently there was a Saudia Arabian farm here in Arizona that was allowed to pump an unlimited supply of water to grow alfalfa to send overseas to feed their dairy cows. Gov’t officials as well as millionaire celebrities flying around in private jets. California is proposing to charge people 30 cents a mile cause they’re losing money on these gas taxes that they use to fix the roads. It’s all part of a global agenda, not a good one either. So no I’m not for electric cars.

[normalice]

I'm a fan of plug in hybrids until we sort out battery recycling and charging infrastructure.

[OfMiceandMen]

So meet the EV industry half-way. I agree, if I were to be in the market, I don't think I would go all out 100% EV, hybrid engines have been around for little while longer.

[craftygoose]

The very fact that they're electric means they can be manipulated by government entities and for me that's going to be a problem, they will eventually have the power to shut you down or render the car useless and locked , or they'll put a limit on where. ypu can go... it's all coming to you very soon

. maybe you didn't pay your taxes, maybe you didn't pay alimony... maybe you're uninsured... soon you won't be able to do jackshit because they'll control your life through your transportation!!

[DishLady]

Great question! I only know a little about electrical vehicles from seeing the hybrids in Europe…. It’ll be interesting to see what folks have to say!

[OfMiceandMen]

It's been something that I have been researching and thought, why not ask on here we have some very knowledgeable people.

[DishLady]

My uncle (retired engineer) has been tinkering with his to boost efficiency. He’s most known in our family for riding a burning motorcycle in his 20s, though, so I’m wary about contributing any of his findings. Love him to pieces though. 😂

[OfMiceandMen]

Hope it's not one that is still under warranty... may void it if they find out. Oh crap!💩

[DishLady]

I don’t think he cares. He’s a little eccentric that way.

[OfMiceandMen]

I gather we all get that way someday.😊

[DishLady]

I’m 1/2-way there in some respects but I still won’t tinker w electrical stuff! 😂

[BonzoInBitburg]

It will never happen. Electric cars are too expensive and aren't profitable for car manufacturers without government subsidies. Not to mention the destruction to the planet cobalt, natural graphite, lithium, manganese, and nickel mining causes. Electric cars are not environment friendly and too heavy for our asphalt roads

[Theodoricus]

I'm not sure that evolution of electric cars are so green and intelligent. I guess, there is another purpose behind this.

[OfMiceandMen]

Do you think it's just another wave of products that manufacturers are trying to push as a green'er alterntive?

[LiamJHayden]

I like the concept and they should continue to work on improvemnets, but the infrastructure is just not ready for everyone having them.

[OfMiceandMen]

Agreed, which if it was someday, in addition to working out some kinks, it could very well be decent enough to use as a 2nd vehicle for local driving etc.

[convo_king89]

In the long term it can be better with changes accross the life of the ev. One example your can recycle batteries but u can’t recycle gas. But the power is made from coal to charge the battery and to mine the minerals takes gas…

[TheSpaceGnome]

Electric vehicles need better efficiency still, but are an interesting concept that will have more pitfalls for some time until we improve fuel cell technologies, bolster the grid, and work out the various other kinks.

[Daniela1982]

They are electricity hogs.

[OddBeMe]

Both honestly. It’s the future of cars. But sure, they’re not vetted.. as I laugh at Tesla’s mishaps. I read an owners Tesla’s app shit down and she couldn’t drive her car. Lol

[jahaims]

They are more harm than good

[OfMiceandMen]

Thanks.

[KrakenAttackin]

We don't have a grid that can even begin to support a significant number of electric vehicles.

[Pterodon]

I think they’re disposable pieces of shit

[OfMiceandMen]

A lot of people would likely say that about most vehicles these days. They don't standup like my Dad's old 76 Ford.

[ChinaGrove]

It will be a huge failure.

[OfMiceandMen]

Thanks, do you think it will continue to fail? or get better over time...

[ChinaGrove]

Only the national divorce will fix it. The birds hate wind turbines, the libs hate solar, the libs hate fossil fuels, the libs hate nuclear, the libs hate themselves.

[Anonymous]

It's a big part of the elitists genocide plans

[OfMiceandMen]

Can you elaborate a little, I think I know were you are coming from...

[Opinion Owner]

They can't supply them to the majority but if the majority is reduced then everyone has an EV

[strateguy632]

Need charging options

[Wiredone]

I will never own an electric vehicle.

[noohair]

Where does the electricity come from?