Manafort and Cohen: Two of the President's men, guilty.

[smahala1991]

Today has certainly been an incriminating day in the United States Government. Two of the president's top men Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort have been found guilty of crimes that directly could tie back to the Trump Administration.

First of all, Let's look at the Manafort verdict. Manafort was convicted of 8 of the 18 charges brought against him. Charges of Tax fraud, hiding international bank accounts, and bank fraud. The other ten charges were considered a mistrial. Manafort is expected back in a DC area court for more possible convictions later. Here is a breakdown of the counts he was found guilty on.

Count 1: Tax Fraud — Subscribing to false US individual income tax returns in 2010 (3 year maximum sentence)
Count 2: Tax Fraud — Subscribing to false US individual income tax returns in 2011 (3 year max sentence)
Count 3: Tax Fraud - Subscribing to false US individual income tax returns in 2012 (3 year maximum sentence)
Count 4: Tax Fraud — Subscribing to false US individual income tax returns in 2013 (3 year maximum sentence)
Count 5: Tax Fraud — Subscribing to false US individual income tax returns in 2014 (3 year maximum sentence)
Count 12: Hiding Foreign Bank Accounts — Failure to File Reports of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts in 2012 (5 year maximum sentence)
Count 25: Bank Fraud — $3.4 million Citizens Bank loan (30 year maximum sentence)
Count 27: Bank Fraud — $1 million Bank of California loan (30 year maximum sentence)

Michael Cohen pleaded guilty today on eight counts of tax evasion, lying to a financial institution, and campaign finance violations. Cohen said that "in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office," he kept information that would have been harmful to the candidate and the campaign from becoming public. This means Cohen has admitted to paying off Stormy Daniels at the advice of Trump. So long story short, Trump has been implicated.

Other news today also has involved Mollie Tibbets a missing Iowa college student who went missing. It has now been known her body was found in a cornfield and a 24-year-old illegal immigrant has been arrested in connection to the case.

Whether you want to admit it or not, this has been a wild news day. What do you think is going to be next in the Robert Mueller investigation? How much longer do you think it will be until we see another Watergate or Teapot Dome style hearing?

#Whosnext?

[nightdrot]

It was a wild news day, though what the last one has to do with the first two escapes me. If anything, the last strengthens the President's position. Not in the sense that on either side the most extreme partisans will be persuaded. For GOP activists and funders, this is evidence of what President Trump has been saying. For Democrat activists and funders, this is simply a statistic that does not change the fact that most immigrants are honest - leaving aside that they broke immigration laws.

However, for the middle, and for those Republicans and Democrats who are voters but are not the most partisan, what had once seemed an abstraction and a distant argument has just been given very explicit and concrete form - right in middle America. It is hard to imagine a case more likely to tip the scales of the debate.

As to the Manafort case, it only really impacts the President insofar as it confirms the obvious - that the President associates with not especially savory characters. That said, everything Manafort was convicted of well pre-dates his association with Mr. Trump and so probably makes very little practical difference.

Mr. Manafort's next trial - involving his failure to register as a foreign agent - may have more bearing. Even that, however, does not seem likely. Stay tuned.

The Cohen case is a horse of a different color insofar as it suggests the President may have engaged in illegal campaign activities. Even here, though, the effect may be less than it seems.

As a general rule, campaign violations are penalized by fines. They hardly reach the level of Constitutional "high crimes and misdemeanors." In that connection, convictions in such cases are extremely hard to come by. See also Senator John Edwards who was charged with exactly what the President could be indicted for - and was exonerated despite more evidence than exists so far against Trump.

The irony is that - unsavory figures, petty corruption, sex scandals - Mr. Trump resembles no one so much as the husband of the woman he defeated. We had a referendum in the 1990s on such things - in the form of an impeachment of President Bill Clinton - and unsavory figures, petty corruption and sex scandals won.

The Democrats would, in that sense, be hard pressed to bring an impeachment. At least with a straight face.

While I am no fan of Mr. Trump, the way to defeat him is not to bypass the hard work of making cogent arguments against him. In that connection, impeachment will not get you there.

[Anon-ymous1]

His sheep won't care; they don't care. Hell at a rally last night I heard they were, even still, a year and a half after the election, yelling "lock her up" or something like they were during the campaign. They're idiots. They're trash.

And people who are idiotic trash are not concerned with facts or reality.

[smahala1991]

I am very curious to see how this all ends. It's almost like a Shakespearean Drama

[sinastyle]

I hope the members of the Senate and the House of Representatives will decide on a possible impeachment trial against Trump.

[Anon-ymous1]

@sinastyle They won't.

[Jack_L_andTurn]

Idiots like you are why he won.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

@Jack_L_andTurn He won because the Trash wanted a man just like themselves in the White House

[Harsh_Ch]

@HungLikeAHorsefly so you are naming the majority of the American population as trash... lol

[Anon-ymous1]

@Harsh_Ch What are you talking about? He wasn't elected by the majority. He lost the majority. And we live in a nation where half of the voting public is too stupid to vote anyway, so... no, he was elected by about 30% or so of the population. That isn't the majority... "majority" is more than 50%.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

It's not even that much. Trump received 62.9 million votes and Clinton got 65.8 million votes

en.wikipedia.org/.../United_States_presidential_election,_2016

There are 328.4 million people in the United States

https://www.census.gov/popclock/

Let's do basic arithmetic.
62.9 / 328.4 = 0.1933
65.8 / 328.4 = 0.2003

So, 19% of the population of the United States voted for Donald Trump and 20% voted for Hillary Clinton.

Some of the votes for Trump were just regular Republicans who didn't like Clinton but didn't necessarily like Trump either. We could assume people who aren't really Trump supporters didn't vote for him in the GOP primaries. Trump got 44.9% of the vote in the primaries

en.wikipedia.org/.../Results_of_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

So, more basic arithmetic
328.4 million * .1933 = 63.48 million votes * .449 votes in the primaries = 28.5 million trash people.

So, only 8% of the population are Trump loving human garbage.

[QueenofCups]

At that point, President Warren G. Harding, showing the kind of class Nixon could only dream of, died.

[smahala1991]

from a legal standpoint, what is your takeaway from all of this?

[QueenofCups]

Mueller's case is getting stronger, but his crusade is politically motivated.

[smahala1991]

It's going to be interesting to see how Trump plays in to all of this

[jamie_11]

Potential evidence in the Mueller investigation. It is quite serious that his own attorney taped him.

[goaded]

"his crusade is politically motivated"
It was started by a Republican government (House, Senate and Executive), and Mueller's a Bush appointee.

[WhitePanther88]

@goaded I think bill Clinton showed that a sitting US president could committ infidelity and break the law while president and still remain president.

[goaded]

@WhitePanther88 In this case, the crimes (so far) are in regard to the pay-offs intended to affect the outcome of the election, not the infidelity.

Quite how much it would have made a difference is debatable, considering the so-called "values voters" were quite happy to vote for a known serial adulterer.

[WhitePanther88]

@goaded Infidelity is not a crime but perjury is. Bill Clinton committed perjury while holding office.
Perjury is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding.
Perjury is considered a serious offense, as it can be used to usurp the power of the courts, resulting in miscarriages of justice. In the United States, for example, the general perjury statute under federal law classifies perjury as a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to five years

[goaded]

@WhitePanther88 The current crime that Trump is implicated in is making illegal payments to affect the outcome of an election. Not infidelity. Like I said in so many words.

Clinton was impeached, but not convicted for his crime.

[WhitePanther88]

@goaded Clinton was later found guilty and lost his licence to practice law. He was let off the hook for some reason even though its a very public clear case of being caught committing perjury. I guess politicians didn't want to set a precedent of jailing politicians who got caught lying.

[goaded]

@WhitePanther88 Do you think it was a mistake that Clinton was not punished more? I expect you want President Trump to be held to a higher standard, when he's found to have committed crimes intended to affect a presidential election, and not just two consenting adults?

He was "let off the hook" because it was a perjury that no prosecutor would have followed up on and he wasn't found guilty, either (55 Not Guilty/45 Guilty), but later admitted "conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice", for which he was disbarred.

[WhitePanther88]

@goaded just to remind you president Clinton committed perjury during his trial for sexual harrassment.
Again there's no evidence in any Russian interference in the election and even if there was the Clinton's escaped Chinagate.

Fact is that the president of the United States under oath in a court of law committed perjury. Federal law states that a sitting US president cannot break the law and remain president. He did it in clear view of the nation and justice was not done.
Try committing perjury in a minor court case and see what happens to you. Even little Kim got 10 months for perjury.

[goaded]

@WhitePanther88 "Federal law states that a sitting US president cannot break the law and remain president."

I'm pretty sure you're making that up. The president can only be removed from office by indictment in the House and conviction by a 2/3 majority in the Senate (or under section 4 of the 25th Amendment). I don't know of any law that states no court can convict the president while in office.

Anyway, right now, we're talking about Trump, who has been implicated in open court of federal crimes. If it turns out to be true, you think they shouldn't make the same mistake made with Clinton and throw the book at him, right?

[WhitePanther88]

@goaded impeachment at the federal level is limited to those who may have committed "high crimes and misdemeanors"
The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, and tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office.
High crimes and misdemeanors is a phrase from Section 4 of Article Two of the United States Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

[WhitePanther88]

The difference between talk of a removal of Trump from office and Clinton is evidence. Clinton 100% broke the law.

[goaded]

@WhitePanther88 And if Trump is found to have, say, intentionally broken election laws, or personally soliciting and/or receiving things of significant value from foreign powers, will you be one of the loudest calling for his impeachment?

[WhitePanther88]

@goaded if there is actual evidence yes. There's many innocent men in jail.

[AriesMan]

Why is this such a shock? The most successful people, whether in the business world or EVEN IN POLITICS, lie and cheat. What makes Trump different is that he will go against the grain of Washington DC to make his mark and you have to like him for that when other politicians of the past catered to political sentiments and party stances. Trump will fight both Republican and Democrat! As George Carlin said when joking about politicians, "This is the best we can do folks, garbage in and garbage out!" No real honest people of integrity will ever make it as a politician, they just don't lie as well to get the votes and they are dealing with the cesspool of liars who will do everything to ruin them before they can rise up to power in politics! See how Trump is perfect for that world?

[WhitePanther88]

Eh tax evasion so what. When you look at all the shit that went on in the Clinton Whitehouse it's really small frys.
Whitewater controversy
Chinagate
Campbell v. Clinton
Hillary Clinton cattle futures controversy
Barrett Report
Bill Clinton pardon controversy
Clinton–Lewinsky scandal
Bill Clinton sexual misconduct allegations
Commerce Department trade mission controversy
Defense of Marriage Act
Vince Foster suicide
Gala Hollywood Farewell Salute to President Clinton
Lincoln Bedroom for contributors controversy
Wampumgate
White House FBI files controversy
White House travel office controversy

... and that before the Clinton foundation was set up, Hillary held office and bill Clinton was taking trips on Lolita airlines to Jeffrey Epstein' s peadophille island.

[juliaanita]

no more infowars for you.

[WhitePanther88]

@juliaanita a basic search of Clinton scandals on Wikipedia. Info wars tends to be half truths and fantasy. Never forget Bill Clinton committed very publically a crime and remained President. I missed Pardongate which was pretty shady.
en.m.wikipedia.org/.../Bill_Clinton_pardon_controversy
en.m.wikipedia.org/.../Category:Clinton_administration_controversies
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...S-just-three-years.html

[Jack_L_andTurn]

Manafort's all occurred before the campaign.

Cohen's is hilarious - financial payments for confidentiality agreements are so common that even Stormy Daniels's attorney did so with his former partner Jason Frank.

Trump is an obnoxious adulterer, but these charges are either unconnected or laughable.

[TripleAce]

Everyone is guilty... it’s just who has a vendetta against you and who is willing to figure it out and press charges
Remember all that stuff Hillary was guilty of lol... like murder, stealing money... Clinton... yup lol

[goaded]

Not everyone is guilty, that's ridiculous. Are you a murderer?

[TripleAce]

@goaded everyone in office is guilty of something... like 70% if not more have fraud on their resume lol...

[TsubasaCorrupted]

So much for draining that swamp. He's just adding to it.

[Browneye57]

The funny thing about it all is that they having nothing to do with Trump. Total media fail.
That's like saying your teacher went to jail for pedophilia, and somehow that reflects on you. Or your lawyer is convicted for tax fraud. What exactly does that have to do with you?

[goaded]

They're Trump's lawyer and his campaign manager, how is that "nothing to do with Trump"?

[Browneye57]

@goaded - Because he is not them. Guilt by association is not a valid crime.

[goaded]

Conspiracy to commit a crime is, though, and that's what Cohen admitted to.

[Browneye57]

@goaded - Cohen is a proven liar and nothing he cops to in a plea deal can or will be used to prosecute a third party. EVER. I'm no lawyer, but this is plain as day to me. It has absolutely nothing to do with Trump. Even more amazing is how the fake news media gets people so confused.

[goaded]

"I'm no lawyer"
This is plain as day to everyone.

[Browneye57]

@goaded - you're confusing the subject. Typical with a weak argument.
Bye now...

[jacquesvol]

More than two: www.theguardian.com/.../how-many-of-trumps-close-advisers-have-been-convicted-and-who-are-they

[jacquesvol]

These two jailbirds will SING. And this one too is gonna sing: www.vox.com/.../allen-weisselberg-immunity-trump-cohen

https://i.imgur.com/YaX4OBq.jpg

[Waffles731]

Let's hope they both get repeated anally penetrated in prison

[Jjpayne]

Interesting, thanks for the summery and the news update for the day!!

[MidnightCowboy]

All of them deserve prison time Manafort to Trump

[theflash675]

all of congress and former presidents should be in prison too.

[Jonny317]

It's only a matter of time before DJT is directly implicated. When the Blue Wave hits, watch out.

[NatureBeauty]

What a sad day for the Republicans lol

[TsubasaCorrupted]

I love how he hires the best people, and his own personal former lawyer of years he now calls a weak liar.

[MarketData]

That ought to justify a witch hunt against illegal immigrants... whether he's found guilty or not!

[Secretgardenblood]

Interesting take