Can you please stop with "No one jumped out with a concealed carry to stop the shooting, so there goes that theory." it is the most injudicious statement ever!! Instead lets be logical which is something you don't seem to be. Let's start with this. What state did this shooting take place in? New York. First issue! This is New York. They have some of the strictest guns laws in the US and they still can't get their act together! Even with your New York Pistol License, you are not allowed to conceal carry in every location of the state. These places are defined by New York gun Laws as off-limits; hence you can get arrested for possessing your firearms there! You cannot conceal carry in buildings or within premises of schools, technical institutions, colleges, and universities. You cannot conceal carry in places used for children facilities or daycare centers. You cannot conceal carry in state parks except when you are permitted to do so for hunting reasons. You are not allowed to conceal carry in places like the Liberty island and the monument for the statue of liberty. You are not allowed to conceal carry in a campground meant for the general public, except during hunting in the spring season. You are not allowed to conceal carry in the Zoar valley multipurpose area except it is during the hunting season. You are not allowed to conceal carry in some specific areas of the Adirondack mountain reserve. You are not allowed to conceal carry in courtyards and courthouses. You are not allowed to conceal carry in any mental health facility, except you have permission from those in charge. You cannot conceal carry within government buildings and properties in some cities and counties of New York. You cannot conceal carry in airports. You cannot conceal carry within any city in New York except you have a permit from the head of police in that city. You cannot conceal carry in places that have signage or posts that prohibits the possession of firearms within their premises. You cannot conceal carry in any place that the possession of firearms is not allowed by the federal laws of the United States. This long list alone would deter any law abiding citizen from wanting to conceal carry in NY! No law abiding citizen would want to risk losing their freedom over a constitutional right that is so authoritarian, it could land them in jail. Next time before you go spouting off nonsense maybe do a little research and ask yourself these questions, because you honestly make yourself look stupid. If people didn't have to worry about being a criminal I'm sure there would be many people willing to conceal carry. If you don't like guns go live in Chicago!!
This is true. If anyone else would have been allowed to carry a gun , he would have maybe killed one person before someone put him out of his misery with a bullet to the head. Again , innocent people are target practice for evil law breakers that the New York Democrats let out of prison early
@crossdressingrihno no , liberals/democrats are the ones that want all police forces eliminated and if you are a minority , let out of prison no matter what they crimes they committed. I mean it was racism that made them rob a bank, or shoot a person, or sell crack.
@888theGreat Liberals/Democrats "want all police forces eliminated and if you are a minority, let out of prison no matter what crimes they've committed."
What liberals and Democrats are you close to? I love a good police force. The only thing I want to see is psychologists/sociologists to take care of the cases where police need THAT kind of backup. When a family calls the cops because their son is having a breakdown and threatening them with his suicide or a knife or even a gun, the cops AND the psyche need to show up.
I've spoken to many cops and they say JUST THAT. They are NOT trained to handle mental health or combo situations.
There are people who belong in prison: longtime, repeat criminals, sex offenders.
However, I want to see prison reform. Prisoners should be getting therapy, have support groups, be getting training/GEDs/college degrees while they're incarcerated. Trades, life coaches, physical therapists... IT pros. So for the majority of people who have a chance to come out, they'll come out to new lives and new chances.
That's not liberal or Democratic, just common sense. You want people to REJOIN society, be tax payers and have good lives. That doesn't seem to be the goal and it should be. It is in other countries and they have far fewer people IN prison and far fewer RETURN to prison.
Why don't you ask Biden and our government why they supply weapons to other countries to be used to kill? What would have happened if the Ukraine people had no guns? Why do the police drop the ball when these people get ahold of these guns that shouldn't have them? Why are the gun laws we DO have ignored a good deal of the time? For instance, felons are not permitted to possess firearms, but when they are caught with them red handed they just plea bargain it down to a lesser charge instead of throwing the book at them? It isn't the law abiding citizens that are the crazy ones who do this. Why is mental health care not as available as it should be and why do health insurers cover more of the costs for mental health instead of the paltry amount they do? Answer these questions and maybe these shootings will stop.
Get your head out your ass, this is not a government issue. It's people like you who turn into these fiends when you don't get your way. It's why you project the problem to others and not yourself.
@jshm2 No, sorry to disappoint you but it is the lack of enforcement. If the government would hold these people accountable when they break gun laws there would be less use of them in these sorts of things.
That's like saying another serial rapists, when will balls be confiscated. Anything can be misused, certain things have specific purposes, like penetration. Some people want to be penetrated, some people need to be penetrated even if they don't want it. You need to use the right tool for the right job. Some people don't need or want to be penetrated, they shouldn't be. Removing all legal tools for penetration won't stop it from happening.
You anti-gun people refuse to see the silver lining. You have to see your targets that you want to shoot with a gun, it is a point target weapon, line of sight weapon. If guns are available, gang-bangers and idiots that go on mass shootings don't have to think, they just pull the trigger, and rack up many casualties and few kills.
If they start to use their heads and make IEDs, toxic gas, mortars, rockets, you don't need to have line of sight, or even be on target for any of those delivery methods. I'd rather they spend their time at the range, practicing methods with a 500 yard maximum effective range in one direction with an arc the diameter of the bullet. You know, instead of like, claymore, 100 yard 30 degree fan of shrapnel. That's just a really cheap easy explosive I can think of off the top of my head to make with sheet metal and ball bearings. I mean, people who want to burn out in a blaze of glory will do so, let them embrace candles instead of better ordinance.
It took police 2 minutes to arrive, but 10 people still died. So adding more guns doesn't solve anything. You can't argue with gun nuts because they hate facts and logic.
Logic is understanding guns don't shoot themselves and when someone kills people , you don;t parole them after two weeks of a 50 year sentence. You liberals should stop rewarding criminals.
@888theGreat logic states that less guns equals less gun violence. And facts show that countries with gun control have less gun violence. reĀ·tard verb /riĖtƤrd/ delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment. "our progress was retarded by unforeseen difficulties
@888theGreat what stats? Every country with gun control has lower gun crime. There is no country with loose gun laws and low gun crime. Switzerland has a lot of guns but they also have strict gun control which reduces the number of gun crimes.
Why is Chicago so violent with all those gun laws? Why California? Why New York? If strict gun laws reduced crime , you could go to bed with doors wide open?
Imagine the baked in ignorance of this statement... New York state is currently one of the hardest states to get a concealed carry permit BY DESIGN. you literally have to prove to newyork state that you are in danger from teams of ninja assassins before they will issue you a permit to lawfully carry a fire arm out side of your house. Furthermore in this guys manifesto*where he also explicitly says that he is a Left wing authoritarian... I've read it, not had MSNBC cherry pick and read it to me" He chose this particular target because he had the greatest chance of not being stopped by a armed civilian... because it is extremely hard for civilians to be armed in NY. EVEN WORSE the newyork state police and FBI knew last year this guy was a danger because he threatened to shoot up his school or graduation class and was listed as a "credible threat" by the FBI and CHOOSE NOT to at the very least keep tabs on him. Its a moot point again you are only out raged because you have no brain or ability to think for you self. the day before this shooting 10 people were injured by a active shooter in Milwaukee. It barely got any coverage... because the shooter wasn't the right skin color.
Fully agree. Well said. Iām very interested to know more about his manifesto and him stating heās a left wing authoritarian.
NY does have the strictest gun laws. His firearm was illegally modified. No one is talking about that though. We donāt want to mention how the existing gun laws didnāt work.
Iām also fairly certain his body armor was illegal.
@Exterminatore you are exactly right these "common sense " gun control laws are effective only in their stupidity and failure and in this specific case showed that NYS red flag laws also failed to stop this kid. it is all a ploy and we all know the only goal here is to disarm americans so they can put thier boots on our necks like china does to its peoples.
Much appreciated. Iām also starting to think there may be conspiracy in this. I am by no means a conspiracy theorist but thereās a few things that just arenāt adding up with this case. For example. In June of last year the kid is taken to the emergency room because he said to one of his teachers that he wants to āmurder and commit suicide.ā At that point he became known to the FBI and state police. That was just less than a year ago. Since then he acquired firearms legally and made numerous statements over the last year that he was going to do something. Yet NO ONE seems to notice? Not one person reported any of his comments so far as Iāve read. Then he goes and buys body armor and trains with it. No one in his household raises concerns about him buying body armor and guns after last June? No one in that entire community notices? So all this goes on and no one notices one damn thing. Seems way off. Then he writes all that stuff on his rifle. Meanwhile, the media keeps putting this story that there are white nationalists hiding behind every tree on the continent and has been for almost 2 years. We all know thatās a crock.
It seems like someone wants a race war started or enough āraciallyā motivated mass shootings so they can declare martial law and seize weapons under the guise of a national emergency.
I know that sounds far fetched but thereās just too much with the narratives the media keeps putting out and then the odd and unusual occurring.
I love this argument "No one jumped out with a concealed carry". Dude you get a concealed carry to protect YOURSELF. Most Concealed carry pieces hold 5-12 rounds. Hardly a gun fighting piece of equipment, especially against high cap rifles. Yes let me take my little 5 shot Rossi J-Frame sporting a 2" barrel and go up against a guy with a military grade weapon. Yes because that doesn't have "fiasco" written all over the place for me. When carrying a firearm I am liable for myself and my family. If a dude opens fire I'm getting tf out of dodge. You use your firearm where there is no retreat. My duty is NOT to you. In defense your job is to protect yourself. If you won't pick up a gun to protect yourself? Oh well you had your chances, sorry can't help ya you know the means by which to protect yourself but you decided not to do so. BUT do concealed carry weapons get used to stop threats? Yes all the damn time soooo here's the proof and there goes YOUR "theory"
Okay guns are outlawed tomorrow. How are you going to remove 400,000,000+ estimated firearms and over 1,000,000,000,000+ rounds of ammo from 334,000,000 people living in 50 states and 3,500,000 square miles that have never been more divided and distrustful of their absolutely corrupt and inept government, of which there are only 696,000 law enforcement, 443,000 national guard and 5,000 ATF agents.
Itās really easy to just repeat these guns control talking points instead of actually looking for a realistic solution.
When there is a constitutional amendment to outlaw and we have cops with in 30 seconds of every person to protect us.
I have to wait up to 90 minutes to get a sheriff out here. What would you like someone like me to do if a crazy guy is trying to break down my door to rape me? Ask him to wait for the police to show up?
I don't give a crap about those people dying if it means the rest of us get to stay safe. it is worth the price of freedom, if you don't like it MOVE.
Those people died so the rest of us can stay free and safe.
Go ahead and try outlawing guns, and we'll have a never ending civil war. Think Iraq but with smarter people. If you want peace then address the root of the problem and HINT it isn't a tool.
I love ya girl. We gotta stick together on this issue no matter what. I just responded with proof that debunks that CC Permit holders dont stop mass shootings. Though for me I dont carry a lot of rounds when concealed so my ass is getting tf if possible unless I see an opening from the side or behind to cock the hammer and do the work.
I do carry a back up gun. I carry a wheel gun primarily but I have a deep concealment pocket gun for weak hand quick draw just in case and in the rare event I'd need more than 5-6 rounds
Guns certainly don't help but the idea that if I'm angry at the world I will go out and kill a bunch if people seems to be prevalent in America more than anywhere else, in fact every act seems to inspire others to do the same. The prevelance and availability of guns certainly needs to be addressed but I don't think banning them outright will solve the situation. America needs to address the causes which in my opinion is its mental health crisis and prescription drug addicts.
My rights don't end where your fear begins and if you wanna 'help' people with premature deaths, mind as well ban cars and fast food, or are a third of a million deaths per ear from a bad diet just not a not as a gun which can and does save live. Imagine the Kyle Rittenhouse situation for an example of people with guns saving their own life when they would have dies otherwise.
Never since it is a right. When will strict laws Democrats made on Guns work?
Again , guns are not the problem. Crazy people are the problem. You can't stop crazy. They will always be with us. They use guns, poison, bombs, knives, and cars.
When will cars be outlawed? They are used to kill people all the time. You can kill more with a car than a gun.
When will alcohol be outlawed? It kills more people every year than guns. Not only drunk drivers , but it destroys liver, and brain.
Where I live, when you call the sheriff it's 20 mins IF they show up... Maybe in your neighborhood there's a cop just down the street, but for some of us owning a firearm, and being proficient with it is the only thing keeping the dope heads, thieves, and rapists from coming into your home uninvited and doing as they please.
There are people who live in different situations than you.
If youāre smart enough and have common sense. Youād know that the media and the news is all FAKE!! Everyone knows that they use actors for that. Crisis actors. EVERYONE ALREADY KNOW THISā¦ you're LATE!
He is a typical liberal socialists that thinks that every minority has more rights than a white person. The Constitution is evil and needs to be replaced. That guns kill people not the person pulling the trigger. That a free market economy is evil and the Gov't should control all businesses and decide who gets what and everyone should be paid the same by a central Gov't.
@888theGreat actually I'm encountering more and more on the left who also are pro gun and hate guys like him. They're all over twitter talking about it. I know a lot of would be rapists would LOVE for women to be unarmed daily. Thats for sure.
Stop acting like it's not the evil criminals that commit these shootings. Banning guns will not stop mass shootings because most criminals know how to get illegal guns.
amen sista , I get sick of it. Anytime a white person ends up killing a black person , car wreck, gun, home invasion , whatever , it is a race hate crime. Like white people ask a black guy to break in home and wait with a gun to shoot him.
Guns save THOUSANDS of lives every year. Mostly by simply showing it but of course you never hear about these cases. Do some research and find the tons of examples of guns preventing mass killings. Then ask yourself, why they are ignored by the corrupt media?
I'm very sad about the people who died in the mass shooting. There are always going to be awful like this who disregard human life. However, banning guns isn't the answer. These types of people are always going to find ways to get access to guns or kill people with whatever tools/weapons they have.
FYI his firearms were illegally modified. We donāt want to discuss that though. They already made laws. It didnāt stop this. Murder has been outlawed on this continent before this country was founded. Didnāt stop what happened.
No one is mentioning the body armor he was wearing which Iām sure was illegal in the state of NY too.
saying we should ban guns cause people got shot is like saying oh there was a food fight, ban food. i understand guns are painted as this evil thing but you have to understand it is the people that are bad and unless there is someone good to stop them they will kill with any tool they have
i used it to show you how dumb saying we should ban something is cause a person used it violently, if we didn't have guns then people would have no power at all, you could be stabbed by a guy on a whim and have 0 hope of surviving unless you are stronger than themand lucky, guns are a useful tool when you have no other options to defend yourself and if you refuse to see the positives of a tool then you shouldn't talk on it
i wasn't even pro gun whej i was younger but as i have grown i see now how useful it can be to protect, defense isn't always the safe way and getting rid of something accessible to the public to only give to criminals and people with money is just foolish
Guns kill. They have no other function aside target practise. They are commonly available in the US hence the shootings are frequent and nobody cares enough to stop this. They may be a passive tool but make dangerous people far more dangerous.
a lot of countries ban guns just to see murders carried out with other tools, i can tell you right now being stabbed to death is a lot more terrifying than being shot
Knives aren't made to kill. Hammers aren't made to kill. Saws aren't made to kill. I'm not aware of any other weapon commonly carried (swords?). Guns are a weapon only.
some knives are made to kill, swords, some axes, spears, lots of stuff, you are arguing a point you know nothing about if you had a family and a criminal broke in with an illegal firearm how would you save them if guns were banned
None of these are commonly owned not available. Sword shop? They're also less efficient weapons hence why guns not axes are used in war. Is America at war?
you would be very surprised how many people own a sword or knife, and them being less efficient is exactly why guns are so useful, you are arguing against yourself and you don't even realize because you are arguing based off emotion instead of rational thought i'm not even saying your opinion is bad but an opinion based off emotion and not thought is just silly and best forgotten in these cases
the simplest part of this is that people die, we can't ban everything that kills people that is like taking away a shield because it can be used for harm, it is there for a reason, if you want to ban everything used to kill you would ban so many things it is insane, bombs, cars, bricks, any knife, anything sharp, anything blunt, yours fears are reasonable but fear is not something you base your views off of it is cowardly
š¤¦āāļø Seriously? This is why the shootings keep happening because every time the usual excuses are rolled out, nothing is done about the problem, and then there's another, and another, and another.
Sure various things could be used as weapons but they're ineffective relative to guns hence not being used in combat situations.
knifes are used in combat, i think the real disgusting thing here is you using shootings as a way to push your agenda it is a tragedy not something for you to use to say you are right
murders and mass murders were done long before guns it isn't a new issue so using one as an excuse to try to say i am right we should ban something is kinda gross
they have always been common they have happened everywhere in the world for thousands of years, you are speaking on things you have no understanding of and trying to start an argument acting like you care about victims, you post the same exact thing everytime there is a shooting you don't care about victims you are just a slimy old man trying to justify he is right with no knowledge of the repercussions an act like banning weapons could make, you honestly disgust me after looking at your profile and seeing you try to justify after the points i have made have made me sick, i'm not furthering this convo have a good day
New York is a may-issue state with concealed weapons licenses issued at the local level by the county sheriff or court system. Local law enforcement has discretion in determining whether or not to issue a concealed weapons license to an applicant. Only less than one percent are able to carry concealed in New York. As mentioned in his manifesto. He chose that location because it was less likely someone would shoot back.
A retired cop tried to take him down but got killed in the process.
As for banning guns... you mean that gun decided to just up a go kill a bunch of people?
When will you wingnuts learn, it ain't the gun that's causing the problem, it's the idiot using it. In this case, unfortunately, NY has banned the death penalty, otherwise I'd like to see this jerk get a fair trial, followed by an immediate hanging right outside the courthouse!
Giving out weapons designed to commit murder efficiently and act surprised when people are murdered. It's hard to mass knife but easy to gun people down.
@Echosoul - You're right... what was I thinking? Guns are now "given" away to whomever just so they can murder people. What makes you think I'm the least bit surprised that people are murdered? That specific sin has been going on since Cain killed his brother Abel.
Just because a gun has the capability of killing several people in a short time means they should be banned? Seems to me, cars, trucks, and other vehicles have the same capacity, if not being even MORE capable of the same thing! Maybe we should ban vehicles instead?
@Echosoul Your argument is factually stupid, In Nice, France a number of years a go a Man killed 83 people and wounded 108 more severely... with a truck. The most lethal mass terrorist attacks are almost always carried out with a vehicle not a fire arm. But to also shoot your other argument in the foot* pun intended*. In China it is not uncommon to hear of guys going on knifing sprees and killing and or wounding dozens of people. one actually just happened not to long ago because their extremely dictatorial government locked them down and is in the progress of starving them to death... sure be handy if they had a couple billion guns not in the governments hands. The united states has more guns in civilian hands, than it does people living on it, or any other country in the world. but we rank 11th on the world index for violent gun murder under countries were guns are out right banned. www.worldatlas.com/.../...earm-related-deaths.html Shhhhh don't tell politicians or the anti gun lobby. the reality is if you are not in a big population center. your chances of being murdered with a gun. in a mass shooting or random act off violence is almost non existent.
@Echosoul, Weāve never had a mass shooting that killed 83 people. The world has a lot of problems that the global media doesnāt focus on. Some of the world shootings in history were done in Europe, some more recently than you might think.
My is already incredibly strict ā¦. When will people get that guns donāt kill ā¦ people doā¦ except of course the Christmas parade massacreā¦āsuv kills spectators of Christmas paradeā. There are a lot of sick people out there that need help.
People like you are incapable of doing research into gun-related homicide statistics or numbers of DGU (defensive gun use) incidents. You just internalize whatever beliefs you are told are liberal. I won't bother giving you a rundown on the facts because you wouldn't listen.
This guy was wearing body armour, so anybody carrying a concealed weapon probably wouldn't have taken him down anyway. Instead of another gun law, why don't we fine or sue whatever website got him all charged up? Make THEM pay the funeral costs, damages, and medical bills. Maybe the parents of the shooter could also be sued for bringing this monster into the world. Let the families of the victims take a shot at this shooter while he's tied up to a post WITHOUT his body armour.
I think terrorists and Radical Supremacists groups should be investigated. a lot of times these crazies tend to go on a rant before they act. And NOBODY steps in. That's the problem, America is filled with a lot of Terrorists and people are ignoring it. How much more of these mass shooting/ school shootings will it take for people to wake up and acknowledge what's going on?
This Race bs needs to stop! That's my view. It's 2022 now, it's old and weird. Someone skin color shouldn't bother you to the point of no return... that's what we call an obsession!!!
Exactly šÆ. I'm suprised they're not tired of this foolishness š. And I definitely agree with you... its FEAR. But it's misplaced Fear because folks are just trying to live their lives and mind their business.
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