Is Feminism Dangerous, Dogmatic, and Antiquated? Maybe!

Feminism: : the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities : organized activity in support of women's rights and interests

This would make Feminism a religion by definition. Religion: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group. Feminism is not based on science. It is based on belief.

Is Feminism Dangerous, Dogmatic, and Antiquated? Maybe.

Dangerous: : involving possible injury, harm, or death

Feminist books like the "SCUM Manifesto" claim that men have destroyed the world and that women have to correct it by fixing men, i.e. eliminating them. This book has been published commercially.*

There have been "Women Against Feminism." [1] And they have been attacked and threatened by Feminists who mock them for bringing to light attributes of Feminism:

"But they also say that modern Western feminism has become a divisive and sometimes hateful force, a movement that dramatically exaggerates female woes while ignoring men’s problems, stifles dissenting views, and dwells obsessively on men’s misbehavior and women’s personal wrongs." [2]

Dogmatic: : expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted

Feminists are against the "patriarchy".* But the entirety of human-kind has essentially been a collection of patriarchies even when there were women heads of state including: Queen Ranavalona I of Madagascar, Queen Mary I, and Elizabeth I.

It's also interesting to note that even some Atheists, whom are interested in science but are still belief driven, have a problem with Feminism:

"Atheists should be Feminists because of the inherent levels of misogyny in religious texts and how religion often attempts to perpetuate the traditional Male-Female dynamic." I found this logic flawed and felt compelled to write a rather lengthy reply, explaining exactly why I believe that Feminism is equally worthy of my disdain as religion. [8]

There has never been a human matriarchy anywhere ever. [5] It's untested. Also, bonobos are an anamoly and they are rarely found if ever in the wild so to say that this consitutes a viable matriachry is a stretch. Feminism also often combats science fundamentally.* [3a][3b]

Antiquated: : very old-fashioned or obsolete

Feminism has accomplished its original goals in the western world. Yet Feminists now seek to erase gender roles and identities which causes people to end up being and looking more neutral rather than distinctly different. This is evidenced in at least some women's studies programs.* [10]

They also fail to recognize the variance in brain chemistry between men and women. [6] Feminism appears to be chasing phantoms, i.e. creating problems to attempt to stay relevant. [7] Feminists also claim to support equality but fundamentally and by definition Feminism is a women's advocate movement and nothing more.*

Feminists have often called Women's Studies the "academic arm of the women's movement." But Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge charge that the attempt to make Women's Studies serve a political agenda has led to deeply problematic results: dubious scholarship, pedagogical practices that resemble indoctrination more than education, and the alienation of countless potential supporters. [10]

Can Feminism be dangerous, dogmatic, and antiquated? It certainly seems possible. No Feminist's opinion is any more or less valid than another because their views of Feminism are only their opinions based on its definition.*

If people want Feminism to go away they should probably stop reproducing with Feminists, marginalize/demonize their views, and bring forth the truth. This, in theory, would accomplish their goal by not perpetuating the cycle.

*No True Scotsman Fallacy: No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing")

Whenever Feminists attempt to deny that Feminism is the things above it falls under that fallacy due to Feminism ultimately being open-ended by definition.

Feminism: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests

I'm furious about the women's liberationists. They keep getting up on soapboxes and proclaiming that women are brighter than men. That's true, but it should be kept very quiet or it ruins the whole racket. - Anita Loos

Bibliography:

http://www.BBC.com/news/magazine-28446617 [1]

http://time.com/3028827/women-against-feminism-gets-it-right/ [2]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/18/feminism-rosetta-scientist-shirt-dapper-laughs-julien-blanc-inequality [3a]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminist-science/#Con [3b]

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminism-epistemology/#crit [4]

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/369468/matriarchy [5]

http://www.sciencevsfeminism.com/the-myth-of-equality/sex-differences-general-intelligence/ [d6]

http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm [7]

https://invisibleatheist.wordpress.com/2015/03/20/atheism-vs-feminism/ [8]

http://aimhs.com.au/cms/index.php?page=against-science [9]

http://gender.stanford.edu/professing-feminism-education-and-indoctrination-womens-studies [10]

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What Girls Said 15

  • I don't know why guys have to make feminism more complicated than it is. It's just women wanting more rights than they do now, to be treated like their male counterparts, to get paid the same etc. It's not as horrible or ridiculous as you make out and it's certainly not a religion. It's purely a movement. If it weren't for the women suffragettes a few decades ago, women wouldn't be able to vote or do a lot of what they can do now so most feminists are their equivalent, striving for total equality in the 21st century.

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    • All this hate of feminism is getting tiresome and boring tbh.

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    • @toxicketchup I'm glad we agree. I'm all for women. But I'm not for women being indoctrinated by some of the monsters in Feminism. It was funny before but it isn't now. It's getting too virulent.

    • I don't know why so many women have to lie about feminism. And you are right it is not complicated, men are evil, men are to blame for everything evil. We know that is what it is, so do you. Our argument is that it is no more right than hating women because they are women.

      "All this hate of feminism is getting tiresome and boring tbh." Imagine if you were the target of feminism's hate because you were a man? Or even a woman who didn't accept the propaganda of feminism?

  • You're going to find extremist views in all political movements and religions. You are focusing on the extremist feminists views. That's like saying all Christians are evil by citing the Westboro church members who yell profanities at gay soldiers' funerals. I believe in feminism the same way I believe in civil rights for minorities. I never hated men or thought all White people are evil, just that everyone should be given the same opportunities and be treated with the same respect. We just want equality. By the way, studies show that there are more similarities between men and women than differences. We have similar wants and needs, can feel empathy at the same level, want to eat, have housing, families, good jobs-just like men.

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  • "Woman deserve the right to a career." If you were to ask my mother she would tell you that her job, as a housewife, is a hard one, it is a job not perhaps even a career. Perhaps some people believe that all feminist are against men but being a feminist myself i believe that i shouldn't be seen as a sex object, not something less than men, but I also believe that men deserve the right to be sensitive, caring and they should be aloud to feel. Men should not be seen as weak or pathetic if he cries. He should be seen as HUMAN, I believe that all women should be able to get an education and that men shouldn't be forced to provide for the family. I have a friend whose dad is a 'housedad' and her mother works. It's the choice of the family, it shouldn't be assumed that woman must stay at home and men must work. i believe that women shouldn't be harassed because of the clothing we wear or because of our body shape. we shouldn't be telling girls to cover up, we should be teaching people that rape is wrong and a crime. And it's not just women, men are raped too. These videos are just a sample of people.
    If you still do not understand feminism click here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-iFl4qhBsE

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    • I understand Feminism perfectly but based on your response it leads me to believe you either did not read what I wrote or that you didn't understand what I wrote. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter. Feminism is made up of many different subsections that are all equally Feminist because of Feminism's definition. Feminism is open-ended, lacking an official doctrine. It allows for extremists. Your view is your opinion but that is not the entirety of Feminism.

      Also, gender equality is not necessarily rational as the sexes are not the same. They should have equal opportunity in my opinion though. What she said is the definition of Feminism is not the entirety of its definition. They are also attempting to force genders to be equal. I'm glad women are choosing not to be Feminist. Her views are not too strong, they are too warped. Her views are not too isolating they are detached from reality, being a Feminist.

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    • "On your point about abortion, abortion is not murder."

      That's 100% debatable. My basis is that you were once unborn and if someone had aborted you then you would not be alive. That's a fact. If murder is justified killing. How is killing a child before they had a chance to live justified? Your basis thus far seems selfish. Not to mention that what you've said thus far could be prevented with responsibility and contraception rather than killing unborn children.

      "doesn't every movement allow for extremists."

      No. Because most movements have more explicit definitions/doctrine and more directly renounce extremists. There are members that I've mentioned that openly run/influence women's studies programs and are accepted.

      "Was the fight for the rights of black men and woman not violent at times?"

      They were and they were put in prison or killed themselves (Malcolm X). MLK and Ghandi were not aggressively violent.

    • " WE deserve to be seen as a contender, a serious businesswoman, a strong willed sports person."

      No women do not NECESSARILY deserve it. That's not how the market works. You deserve ONLY the opportunity to be taken seriously. People have to PROVE their ability to contend. It isn't just given. What you're saying isn't equality. It's manipulation.

      "doesn't mean we should be treated differently."

      ... Yes you should be because psychology and statistics say you should. Who do you think commits violent crimes? Men. Who do you think are the victims of most rapes? Women. The biology is different. You SHOULD be treated differently but not necessarily worse.

      "What if the roles where reversed and men were the ones seen as beneath women?"

      They are in some ways: alimony, custody, sentencing, etc. are often more favorable for women. Equal opportunity should be for everyone not JUST women. Feminism < Egalitarianism.

  • Hehe... I support the truth and anti feminist becauepse they go for and against menist they are groos I just like my dad and two brothers

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  • As a girl who has been wearing mostly dresses since the age of 13 (when I got to decide what I'd wear), loves to cook, clean and had the ambition to become a good wife and mother, I sometimes feel out of place in this world. I get so much sh** thrown at me for life choices I've made because it makes me happy that I feel I truly was born in the wrong decade (I'm a housewife). I'm happy, my husband's happy, and still both men and women say bad things. Comments I get in my face: "But don't you have any other goals or ambitions? Don't you feel useless sitting at home all day? Please tell me at least that you don't like to be objectified?" Comments my husband gets: "Your wife should get off her lazy ass and start working for her money instead of living off yours. Your wife sounds like she only knows three things: how to cook, how to clean and how to wear pretty clothes. No brain at all. Your wife is a disgrace to the modern woman, she wants to go back to the middle-ages when women have worked to hard for the position they're in today" and more of that nonsense. It frustrates me that in this modern day and age, I HAVE to have a "career" to count in society. What, I'm not ambitious because I'm a housewife? I got some diplomas and certificates to make sure that I can work from home in financial difficulty. I want to be the very best wife my man could ever wish for, and that's not ambition? And oh, the looks a man gets when he says he would actually enjoy being with that kind of woman. He'd be labeled as a sexist pig immediately.

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    • Exactly, what feminists say "Women deserve the right to choose a career."

      What they mean "Women without a career are shit!"

      "Women can do it all!"

      "Women MUST do it all."

      And of course that isn't even touching on the fact that somehow CHOOSING to be a stay at home wife/mom is slavery, but working 80 hours a week in a Corporate office at a job you hate for a boss that doesn't take you seriously is somehow empowerment! What a load of crap!

      You are a wonderful caring loving woman, your husband is a lucky man, and your children are also lucky.

      As for being labeled a sexist pig you are 100% right! Although, feminists label all men that anyway, so I'm sure your hubby is used to it. Remember it's only ok to call MEN sexist!

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    • Whilst that may very well be the case, your assumption is that my views cannot be defined as feminism. Or at least, I felt that was implied. @ComDom

    • @Roark you may have views that align with some of Feminism as I do but I do not associate myself as a "Feminist" because of the whole picture of Feminism. It's flawed BECAUSE it is not clearly defined. It is flawed because it has mutated into something malignant and it only stays around because of the supposed 'good' it has done and is doing.

      This is, of course, leaving out the whole picture of the bad it does along with the exaggerations it makes. The key to understanding Feminism is the big picture and the big picture for Feminism is not as pretty as it appears superficially. I've witnessed this first hand more than once. I've also lost track of how many second hand stories I've come across.

  • You've basically taken the worst of the bunch and based your opinion of feminism on them. There are parts of the world where women don't have the same right to education, or work, or even the ability to choose who they marry - and whilst I agree some feminists take it way too far, it's hardly antiquated and dangerous in those scenarios.

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    • I've taken the parts which together equal the whole to formulate my conclusion. That's how logic works. It's still dangerous and antiquated fundamentally. It was the best people had in the past.

      But there are new ideas which can and probably are much more effective than Feminism is, was, or could ever be. Granted that part to an extent is my opinion. But MyTake above was not opinion. I provided facts. I urge you to quote my opinions if you found any.

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    • Yes, we've already agreed that it is becoming less so about equality. But I was speaking specifically about the necessity of feminism in developing countries - and I think you agreed with me that it is an issue, and in that case it is very much the same thing.

    • @Roark The thing is feminism in developing countries is spread FROM the West aka From the feminists here in the West. In many countries where women have little to no rights they can spread their hatred and blame men for society's woes without people realizing what they are doing. Until its too late, you know just like what happened here in the West.

  • Ok let things go the men's way

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    • I don't understand. What is your point?

    • Lol typical feminist, it must be MEN vs. WOMEN. This is what they do brainwash young women into seeing men as the enemy, and blaming all problems of society on men.

  • Thanks for dictating what feminism means to everyone, real intelligent take there, so useful and enlightening. I've seen the errors of my ways finally! I shall now go to the kitchen and make my man a bacon sandwich, then suck him off as he watches some manly sports then goes and voted republican.

    Thank you ComDom, what would i have ever done without your superior wisdom to shine the way...

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    • Feminism was useful 50-100+ years ago, then it became humorously divisive, and now it's become clear to me that it is indoctrinating people on a large scale. It isn't funny, to me, anymore. It's able to do this covertly because of powerfully well hidden fallacies, one of which I've discovered.

      "Thanks for dictating what feminism means to everyone"

      The KKK, Nazism/facism, Communism, Black Panthers, etc. aren't ALL bad. They all revolve around community (dangerous exclusive ones), unity within said community, and equality (often at the expensive of freedom and by extension individuality).

      This all leads me to believe that Feminism is in at least some ways like a cult. Cult: : a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous.

      Feminism being the religion belonging to a larger group about equality like Egalitarianism.

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    • @completelyclueless, wait I'm sorry @GirlScoutsRevenge I have never once said anything about Nazis or emasculation, perhaps that was one of the voices in your head?

      However although "claiming" you don't hate men you immediately responded to my comment saying that "loads of men are rapists" Which is in fact FALSE, you know the reality feminists don't want getting out? There are a very small number of men who are evil vile horrible rapists, but the fact you take that fact to accuse "loads of men" just proves that once again what feminists say and what they mean are two COMPLETELY different things!

    • @genuinlysensitive there are loads of women who are complete mentalists too, I didn't claim you mentioned Nazis I was using it as a commonly used argument. It was mentioned in this thread, not my head.

  • it's their own opinions why they are dangerous? If they are dangerous, everything else is same as well. abortion seems to be the key but then men don't want baby also. do you know how many white guys sleeping around underage black girls and they love to kill their babies. they seem like they have to kill their own baby so that they can get over the fear of exposing themselves as self haters. You think you can kill the baby murderers? no way. they will do it and they can do it no matter who try to stop them. it's everyone's fault. baby is dead because of you and the girl. both are guilty so why blame only the girl? well in genesys adam was doing that to eve. Your women told me to eat the fruit. that happens all the time with my ex. They want to make excuses by lying and pretending. All you want to do is fool around but then you need excuses. I can tell right away without going through all that drama. so promoting birth control pill or condoms will do the trick but you all want kill the baby so that you will be free from the burden and have ultimate fun 100% guilt free justified. so abortion will not be stopped. but then if you kill your own baby, you will become high statues when you die in hell. it's ancient legend so a lot of celebrities become fame that way.

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    • "it's their own opinions why they are dangerous? If they are dangerous, everything else is same as well."

      Because they are polluting people's minds with falsehoods.

      "do you know how many white guys sleeping around underage black girls and they love to kill their babies. they seem like they have to kill their own baby so that they can get over the fear of exposing themselves as self haters. You think you can kill the baby murderers? no way. they will do it and they can do it no matter who try to stop them. it's everyone's fault. baby is dead because of you and the girl. both are guilty so why blame only the girl?"

      I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm white and I don't know guys who do this. Can you link me?

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    • I still hate men. but I am not expressing myself because expressing hate don't do any good. but people know anyway. but the point is.. men also hate women and we are even. so, why not everyone just live their life and be happy? equally.

    • i don't see her that aggressive anyway. I bet you guys are spooky. I know..

  • My friend was at that University of Toronto event. Well, she's not my friend anymore cos she doesn't believe me & my rape claim - 'cos I consented under the belief he would kill me if I did not. Sorry I just do this everywhere these fucking two-faced pieces of shit. Talk this big talk about consent & rape culture but when their friend is a rapist it's like

    s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...a1e61a546d.jpg

    None of this rant made sense tho lmao. Like, what do you think "patriarchal" means? You can have a patriarchal society and a queen, like.. c'mon. Please!

    Also, what is the No True Scotsman shit about, like? What does that even refer to? What are you talking about!

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    • "My friend was at that University of Toronto event. Well, she's not my friend anymore cos she doesn't believe me & my rape claim - 'cos I consented under the belief he would kill me if I did not. Sorry I just do this everywhere these fucking two-faced pieces of shit. Talk this big talk about consent & rape culture but when their friend is a rapist it's like"

      I have no idea what your point is.

      "None of this rant made sense tho lmao. Like, what do you think "patriarchal" means? You can have a patriarchal society and a queen, like.. c'mon. Please!"

      This isn't a rant. Everything I said was factual. That's why I cited it. Your assessment is inaccurate. I'm aware you can have a patriarchal society and a queen. I said that. Can you not read?

      Rant: to talk loudly and in a way that shows anger : to complain in a way that is unreasonable

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    • @Alexzktra "Also, I'm not from the States, no, if you hover over my username it says "United Kingdom" .."

      Well there's your problem. I don't socialized medicine for reasons similar to what you've experienced. It's incredibly inefficient. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

    • I'm truly sorry for what you went through, but I am not a rapist, none of my friends are rapists. In fact the VAST MAJORITY of men are not only NOT rapists but see rape as a horrible evil vile crime.

      The thing feminists don't tell you is that horrible evil vile crime was committed by horrible evil vile people, not all men, and not any culture where we get together and encourage each other to rape.

      That is BULLSHIT!

  • write a take about why you defend sleeping with underaged girls

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    • If there is a high enough demand, sure. But my point was not to say just sleeping with them is a good idea necessarily, as it can have MASSIVE detrimental effects if that's all it is. My point was that "Underage girls" conceptually with respect to anatomical and psychological development is largely if not entirely arbitrary after puberty. Feminism is very controversial and more pressing.

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    • women who don't want young girls to have sex

  • feminism is necessary because it's the driving force behind 90% of GaG takes

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  • "Feminism is not based on science. It is based on belief." Same could be said about equal rights between races, gay rights, protection of minorities, freedom of speech and pretty much everything else. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make there?
    Morality is mostly a believe. Slave owners could legally kill their slaves because belief at the time was that slaves aren't people. Equally a husband could legally rape and kill his wife because women also weren't seen as people.
    Believing that there should be no slavery is a belief, it's not based on science. If you want to call that a religion, then fine, I guess I'm religious.

    patriarchy: "a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line.
    a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it."
    That has been a historical fact. You didn't deny that so not sure why you mentioned it at all?
    It's also not inherently a bad thing, however it historically played out to be a bad thing
    Yes there were female queens. Elizabeth and Mary that you mentioned were half sisters and they were queens essentially for a lack of male heir and only after their younger brother died. Female rulers were and still are certainly the exception

    Now as for the videos, I love bill maher, but let's not forget that he is making comedy. Political comedy but they're jokes nonetheless. He does make SOME good points (because a lot of it is just a joke) and I think he's right, but he's not exactly those mra movements he acknowledges problem where there are problems and historical facts
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNzaKhW7Axs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjOvJgd-yag

    The second video, her and the mra's are two very extreme groups, you're not gonna get a sensible conversation there. And if I've ever seen hate speech it was on mra blogs. So again, comparing two extremes, not sure what your point is.
    Same for the last video. And not demanding no speech on campus isn't unreasonable

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    • Oh and before anyone downvotes me, I would like to know with what part of my answer exactly you disagree, please?

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    • ah, okok XD I thought it was a concept but I wasn't sure :S anyway, yes, I think this is what we should be doing, instead of focusing only in present problems (which are important of course), also start to think and plan what kind of society we want to have, problem is, nobody seems to be doing this right now,.. and I'm not talking about discussions inside some group (like feminists, or whatever), everybody should be involved (or at least those who are interested XD) and this is what I was trying to say earlier when I got mad jejeje

    • Ultimately we have to agree to disagree. Is it possible Feminism has caused harm? Yes. Is it possible Patriarchy has worked? Absolutely. But it's an opinion. If Feminism convinces you otherwise then it has deluded you.

  • When you talk about feminist hating men are you really talking about feminists or mysandrists. I see this mid used a lot the other day I heard a guy say "she hates guys, she's a total feminist", but if she hates men then she's not a feminist but instead a mysandrist. I feel like people use the word wrong a lot. You can love men and still want women's rights if your a feminist, you can't live men and want women to succeed if your a mysandrist.
    And I don't get why telling my daughter it's okay if she wants to do more "boyish" things is a bad thing. You say it would make us neutral, but not necessarily. Some girls will still choose to be exceptionally feminine, some guys will still want I be traditionally masculine. And even if most people were neutral what's wrong with that? There are great aspects of both genders so wouldn't it be great to mix and match those great things (examples, someone whose very kind and nurturing but very truthful and says what they mean).

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    • No. Feminism is fundamentally corrupt. It is growing closer and closer to misandry.

      "And I don't get why telling my daughter it's okay if she wants to do more "boyish" things is a bad thing. You say it would make us neutral, but not necessarily."

      Being neutral would be necessarily bad if they were indeed "boy" or "girl" things and the other sex was doing them because they would not be the other sex, granted that's ultimately an opinion. Some of that behavior mixing is potentially currently or in the future to be cultural indoctrination. To be fair all morality and ethics are an opinion unless there is a God.

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    • "It all depends on how far away from the norm of her gender she is and if it is due to psychological trauma or cultural conditioning."

      You said if her personality isn't stereotypical girl then it's either do to trauma or culture conditioning

      I wasn't slamming you for using manly I was just saying that I was only using the word manly to give an example. I really don't are as long as their comfortable with themself

    • "You said if her personality isn't stereotypical girl then it's either do to trauma or culture conditioning"

      No those are among the reasons. She could have hormonal deficiencies as well.

      "I wasn't slamming you for using manly I was just saying that I was only using the word manly to give an example. I really don't are as long as their comfortable with themself"

      You should care. What if being "themselves" is dangerous? What if they are cutters?

  • There's a difference between RadFems/TERFs and normal Feminists. Because there still is disparity between men and women in modern societies across the globe and even in The US...

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    • I used to think that way but I don't anymore. All of those seemingly separate types of Feminism fall under the umbrella of "Feminism." It is open-ended because it has no central doctrine. Thusly because of its definition your claim that "There's a difference between RadFems/TERFs and normal Feminists" is an ad hoc fallacy, more specifically: the "No True Scotsman Fallacy" as I mentioned above.

      "Because there still is disparity between men and women," in "the US," Think so? Prove it. Most if not all of what I've been told, with regards to Feminism, about the western world turned out to be untrue or exaggerated. It might even skew in the other direction now.

    • "There's a difference between RadFems/TERFs and normal Feminists" The only difference here is how honest they are about feminism.

What Guys Said 23

  • Only the ones who are at the protest rallies.

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  • i agree with feminists on some things, and disagree with them on others. The first paragraph is kinda silly too honestly. I mean do you need science to tell you that women should not be raped when they walk outside? That's not really the job of science. It's there to explain what we do not know about our natural world. Morality is what dictates these things and our belief about what's fair and what isn't. So i think your claim that its a religion is hyperbolic. That being said, i do think feminism can be dangerous, especially when they create an atmosphere where one is labelled as a misogynist for simply having a different point of view. On certain important issues, i think feminists are wrong, which is why i dont identify myself as a feminist, but in conversations with feminists, its real easy to see that they aren't really accustomed to much debate, because what comes from the movement generally isn't debated much outside of the internet. That's a problem.

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    • It appears hyperbolic but it isn't. Feminists can and have attempted to hijack our conception of science through social and educational indoctrination. They attempt to refute science on fallacious grounds.

      "but in conversations with feminists, its real easy to see that they aren't really accustomed to much debate, because what comes from the movement generally isn't debated much outside of the internet. That's a problem."

      This was one of the biggest purposes of me writing this. I'm trying to understand and identify how they are preventing the dialogue from happening and hopefully reopen it.

  • Just ignore it and it'll go away eventually.

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  • I agree with this article

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  • I agree with this article, feminism is ridiculous, sexist and potentially dangerous.

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  • Even within the 'Feminist' movement you have numerous viewpoints, approaches, methods, and so on.

    The term really needs to get broken down, and some groups have made manifestos to that end, but the main problem is you still have many different types of women all still wearing that massive label with their own interpretation of it.

    Then you have other movements like anti-racism, multiculturalism, and so on, that threaten a more important cause than just limiting to one gender.

    Then there was egalitarianism, the massive umbrella that incorporates it all. That basically all people should be treated like people. I had considered myself one for some time, until various dregs have ruined that umbrella too.

    At the end of the day, a person will try to get know people and see them from where they are at, or they will not. Turns out this has been going on for a few millenia.

    Damn, what a shocker.

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    • We see it mostly the same way I think. I'm not saying "Egalitarianism" is necessarily the answer but it seems to be a step in the right direction. We should focus on what unites us rather than what separates us. Thanks for the insight!

  • Today is an unlucky day for me.
    I had to call out three sexist jokes at a party, prevent one of my friends from catcalling someone, then had to break down a horribly homophobic rant online.
    I come here and this is what I find.
    I would explain everything that is wrong, but I'm just too lazy.

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    • Feel free to explain anything that is wrong when you have time because none of it is. I'm sorry you had a rough day though!

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    • @Noxifer626

      "It's not my job to educate you."

      that's so adorable... educate me? It's 100% the other way around. Nothing you've said has educated me at all. I thought about what you said when I was younger than you. You're behind the times. BUT what amuses me most is that you said:

      "I can't waste my time with idiots."

      Yet you continue on talking with me (who you claim is an idiot)... You're... Fun lol perhaps you are the idiot in all of this? I bet your arrogant nature has prevented you from even considering the possibility. Positively delightful. Go on! I eagerly await whatever new nonsense you can concoct in that cesspool you consider your mind.

    • Your ignorance is what is wrong.

  • True feminism is still fine and woman still are not treated as equals. Is it better now than 50 years ago? Of course but we have a little ways to go. Has it brought about some bad consequences? Yes sadly but I deal with it.

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    • No Feminism isn't fine. I thought it was too. There is no such thing as "True Feminism."

      "Whenever Feminists attempt to deny that Feminism is the things above it falls under that fallacy due to Feminism ultimately being open-ended by definition."

      That quote is from my post and it references the No True Scotsman fallacy. Feminism is whatever people want to believe as long as it follows its definition: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests. And that's why it's dangerous.

      It has morphed into something divisive and hateful. Not to mention that all of those subgroups that advocate genocide of males, among other monstrosities, are all still Feminist by definition. Their opinions are just as valid as any other Feminist BECAUSE of Feminism.

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    • surely mr. anon. I'll respond on his post lol

    • This is true feminism, it isn't what they say it is through propaganda but it is.

  • Rush Limbaugh II? Are you sure the first one won't object?

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    • I have no idea how to respond to this. What are you talking about?

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    • Rush Limbaugh II?

      Oh I see because someone points out the RANK hypocrisies of feminism he must be a misogynistic, bible thumping, Wall St. loving, ultra conservative redneck.

      This is of course simply more feminist propaganda:

      "You are either with us or the terrorists!" I'm sorry that was George W Bush. "You are either with us or the misogynists!"

      Its so easy to get the two mentalities confused.

    • This take is just a strawman fallacy, like Rush Limbaugh's rants.

  • In Germany, feminism is also strongly linked to political parties that want to establish communism , socialism and an anti- military / anti-nationalism ideology.
    They're also in favor for natural energy-sources and come close to eco-activists or hippies so to speak. - YES FEMINISM IS AS DANGEROUS AS TERRORISM.

    For example there's a group called "women on 20s" who want the face of some other feminist women on the 20$ bills, but just think about how much it would cost to print all these new bills and about the inflation this would cause !
    It would devalue the US$ and is an act of terrorism on the US economy !!!

    And what's even worse are their plans to abolish the military, which would make millions of people unemployed and would make the US an easy target for foreign terrorist groups ! (This would also damage the economy a lot once again)

    Their wish to transform a country to a communist nation would cause the economy to become command economy which was responsible for the poverty of today's former Soviet countries like Ukraine, etc.
    Communism would also take away peoples' social mobility and FREEDOM ! Communism intends to make every citizen equally poor !

    just think about it: Do you FEMINISTS really want POVERTY, SLAVERY, COMMUNISM, NO MILITARY DEFENSE and dirty HIPPIES?

    Sorry, feminists, you are SCUM in my eyes ! GO TO HELL !

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    • So... how do you go from German feminists' political alignment to communism in the USA? I dislike communism as much as the next guy (even more so because I grew up in post-commie Poland), but I don't see how feminism can lead directly to a dramatic shift in the entire political makeup of the country. A bit of a fallacious use of the slippery slope argument. Not a feminist myself, just for the record.

    • Well, maybe it is necessary to distinguish between German and American feminism in general.
      But here in Germany, they really do want to implement communist ideas ! It is a fact in Germany.

  • Nonsense.. There is still the gender pay gap and rampant rape. Moreover, it is not a religion. Religion seeks to define and validate existence. Gender roles are not static. They have changed to various degrees thoughout history and are differ when you look at various cultures. You fear of feminism; is grounded in your fear of change in the dynamic between men and women. As always, it is about power.

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    • The gender pay gap is largely an illusion. Rape is a crime. Neither of which call for the need of Feminism. Nothing I said was nonsense. Feminism is a religion. I explained my reasoning and you didn't confront it. Gender roles are static with respect to biology.

      Culture can change because humans have the potential for higher cognitive functioning. That doesn't mean humans don't still have instincts. I do fear Feminism because it is a virulent viral malignancy. Some of what they believed I found funny until I realized a fair amount of people bought into their indoctrination. It isn't funny anymore.

      I do agree partly though. It is about power. It's the power of truth over dogma. I oppose harm to the innocent.

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    • Gender pay gap myth? Women dont make as much money as men, so that is irrefutable proof of discrimination? Bullshit!

  • I was with you until the "If people want Feminism to go away they should probably stop reproducing with Feminists, marginalize/demonize their views,".

    No. Any man in his right mind, and with any self respect will avoid a feminist like the plague. No doubt about that.
    But to call for joint boycott of feminists as individuals, instead of feminism as an ideology, and by demonizing their views, instead of discrediting them with facts, is to engage in censorship.

    That would be as fucked up as what religion does > calls for boycott of all non-member, asks to demonize them and don't marry them, let them die out.

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    • I wasn't telling people what to do I was suggesting how to be rid of an ideology. It's only an option. Some of their views deserve demonizing and marginalizing. They are advocating genocide at times and blatant falsehoods. It's gone too far.

      They are polluting people's minds. My point was that if Feminists cannot reproduce, spread, and continue on its legacy it will end. Censorship might not always be bad though. What happens if Nazi'ism takes off again? It's ultimately just an opinion. It's just gotten crazy now.

    • And my point is that censorship is ALWAYS bad. It degrades society and its progress. The buck stops with the moron who got offended the most.

      You may even be able to defeat feminists using their own tactics, but the price would be too high.

    • Oh this isn't about me getting offended. This is about me opposing false information. I think we need to defend ourselves and use the truth.

  • My mother and sister don't make the same Amount of money then their male counterparts. I think that's bloody rubish so yeah I suppose I am a feminist. As with any social movements you always have a Militant wing but that part is not the whole. Black social consciousness made a lot of strides but also had it's fringe proponents.

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    • "My mother and sister don't make the same Amount of money then their male counterparts. I think that's bloody rubish so yeah I suppose I am a feminist."

      You don't need to be a Feminist to oppose something like that. You could be an Egalitarian or something similar. Feminism is unnecessary.

      "As with any social movements you always have a Militant wing but that part is not the whole."

      It is part of the whole. Feminism is open-ended and because of that the militant wings are just as validly Feminist.

      "Black social consciousness made a lot of strides but also had it's fringe proponents."

      I agree and that's why I don't support the Black Power Movement. I support movements like the "Civil Rights Movement".

    • "My mother and sister don't make the same Amount of money then their male counterparts."
      Do you have any evidence of that?

      Or do you just make an ass out of you and me?

  • Good feminists, who just want to make sure women don't ge the short end of the stick for being women, if you don't agree with these views, then why are the most prominent "feminists" always spouting these off?
    If you don't want people believe feminist=feminazi, take control of the movement!

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    • My point exactly.

    • Because despite what they "say" their actions are completely different! Take Girl Scouts revenge. She claims not to "hate" men I say one thing to her next she is going on how "loads" of men are rapists so I should be held accountable because I am a man... Yea they really don't hate men...

  • pseudo-intellectual lol..

    There have been many matrichiarcal societies, in Africa, Asia, ancient Europe . And bonobos are an isolated population.. er so what? They are still a species, and aren't human, so to compare ourselves to them doesn't make sense.

    you claim intelligence, but then you're not, you base this Take on faulty logic, poor base principles, and your own weird/retarded biases.

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    • No. Everything I've said is a fact, hence the citations. "The consensus among modern anthropologists and sociologists is that while many cultures bestow power preferentially on one sex or the other, matriarchal societies in this original, evolutionary sense have never existed."

      www.britannica.com/.../matriarchy

      "They are still a species, and aren't human, so to compare ourselves to them doesn't make sense."

      People compare us to them because they are very close relatives to humans. We share a massive similarity in DNA, upwards of 98%.

      "you claim intelligence, but then you're not, you base this Take on faulty logic, poor base principles, and your own weird/retarded biases."

      I also never claimed intelligence here so I'm not sure what you're talking about. My logic is sound and you've failed to explain its faults. My basis is true. I never said I wasn't bias. But that doesn't detract from my points.

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    • lolol.. it's your intent, but meh, not bothered.

    • @tenofthepeaks "lolol.. it's your intent, but meh, not bothered."

      No. It isn't. And if you believe that you're delusional. If I wanted to "prevent" you from responding I could block you. You haven't said anything of value thus far so I guess you responding is kind of pointless but that doesn't mean I want to prevent you from responding. However, I appear to have exhausted any more content out of you so I suppose the conversation is over.

  • I'm so tired of hearing that ridiculous non-argument about erasing gender differences. Feminists do not want a more homogenous world where men and women are the same. They want a world where a person is not constricted to one of two sharply defined gender roles from birth.

    At least get your facts straight before spouting off.

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    • My facts are straight. "One way to interpret Beauvoir's claim that one is not born but rather becomes a woman is to take it as a claim about gender socialisation: females become women through a process whereby they acquire feminine traits and learn feminine behaviour."

      plato.stanford.edu/.../#GenSocCon

      Maybe you should get your facts straight? Also there are stranger Feminist theories that still remain under the Feminist umbrella.

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    • @muspelhem_5 You fail to understand genetics conceptually.

    • "They want a world where a person is not constricted to one of two sharply defined gender roles from birth."

      If they were really for equality they would fight for BOTH genders equally when in need, not just one ALL the time.

      At least get your facts straight before spouting off.

  • Many women want a traditional marriage... Feminists hate that. I think the family is the best environment for children to grow upmin and I think feminismm tears down family structure.

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    • In what ways? And what is considered a traditional marriage in today's world? Not criticizing you by the way.

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    • Not only that but couples in traditional marriages are bullied to the extreme. The man is a sexist pig and the woman has "internal misogyny."

      If it really WAS about choice couples who CHOSE to have a traditional marriage would be celebrated not brated!

  • I'll believe this when people stop asking my wife if I am okay with her bringing home the bread.

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  • I enjoyed this take, especially the bibliography.

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