Dating is inherently cruel, can't people try to be nice?

[johndoe43575]

If you're like me you probably thought dating was going to be fun. Even if it doesn't lead to marriage, you still get to meet and get to know plenty of attractive people. Except it turns out that dating can be very difficult, especially for us guys (I'm not saying it's not hard for girls too), because we do the lions share of approaching, asking out and getting turned down.

Look, I get it, the majority of women are not going to be attracted to the average guy. You have every right to turn down someone that you're not interested in, but would it take so much effort not only to do it nicely, but in regards to online dating, actually give a response?

Out of possibly hundreds of unreturned messages in the online dating world, I have only ever gotten one reply that politely stated she wasn't interested, but thanked me anyway for the message. I cannot tell you what a breath of fresh air that was, and only served to make that girl all the more attractive in my eyes. Turning someone down is never pleasant, but if they took the time to work up the sometimes extraordinary amount of courage it takes to ask someone out, they deserve a response.

And guys, if they do turn you down, try to refrain from insulting or hurling obscenities to the rejectee. Rejection hurts, hell, feel free to let the person who rejected you know that, but it's not their fault they're not attracted to you, so don't treat it like it is.

[Anonymous]

I agree that online dating is particularly cruel. Because women don't see me face-to-face, they assume that I don't care if I don't get a response, or that I have sent the same email to 100 different women (not true; every initial email is customized to respond to the lady's profile), or I am an idiot for thinking they might be interested.

I receive emails from women and I believe that each and every one of them deserves a response. Since I have recently started dating a really, really wonderful lady, I am sending the following message:

* * *

Dear Miss _______,

I thank you for the very kind words. I have had a number of first dates with women whom I met through POF and most of them were pleasant but the woman was not what I wanted. However, I recently started dating a lady who appears to be all that I want. I have not deactivated my profile only because we have not yet agreed to an exclusive dating relationship (we have had three dates and have a few more scheduled.) As soon as we have that discussion and mutually agree, I will deactivate my profile and say goodbye to POF, hopefully for ever. In the meanwhile, my profile will show that I am online frequently; I check this site on a regular basis because I believe that anyone who writes to me deserves the favor of a reply.

I would not date more than one woman at a time, so while I admit that I am flattered by your interest, nonetheless I must decline the opportunity to get to know you better. I trust that you will understand and I wish the best of good fortune in your search for The One.

Sincerely,

* * *

I sure wish that all the women online acted as nicely as what their profiles claim.

[9mfeo]

Dating is a drag. Can't we just skip that part and go straight to spooning and Netflix?

[crystalt70]

Agreed!

[Octavius]

images.rapgenius.com/...48cdcd0275ce.420x316x1.jpg ...

[crystalt70]

The problem with online dating is that people only see pictures and words on a page. They mean next to nothing. I can look at a person and not really be attracted to them physically, but then they speak and move. I can look into their life-filled eyes. I see more than what's on the surface. I see personality. I see body language. All of these things play a part in attraction. Yes, there are people that you can just look at and KNOW that you don't want to be with them. I can look at a guy's mouth and picture how I would feel kissing that person. If an instant dislike feeling overcomes me, then I know that I couldn't be with that person. The same goes for the eyes in a way. I can look into them and I just KNOW if there's no possible way I could be with that person. I saw a guy earlier today that was not my type at all, but I wasn't repulsed, so I observed him. He was speaking to a couple at the next table. I was interested in his personality. He spoke well, was well-mannered, was funny, carried himself well, attired in clothing that would complement how I prefer to dress, nice "normal" body, etc. I could not see myself kissing him and I could not see quite was I was looking for in the eyes. We NEED to observe people more and in person. This is where a lot of problems come in. People take one look at a person and either accept or reject a person. They pass up many real possiblities. They pass up people who would actually be great with them. Why? Because they have this false ideal in their heads. Too many people want perfection while failing to see that they themselves are imperfect. The picture you posted? Those are women who many men shoot for, but would never land. Why? Because they know they can have just about any guy they want. They're high maintenance women who want a man who can keep them in a certain lifestyle. They want men that they can show off. These women may be gorgeous on the surface, but they are not always as beautiful on the inside. People fail to see this, though. This is why online dating rarely works. I won't say the word "never", because I actually have a few friends who met their spouses online. These people chose to see the real person that they were talking to.

[johndoe43575]

Thank you for your insightful comment, and it pretty much sums up how I feel about dating as well. I have fallen for people that i was not initially attracted to, as you start to notice aspects of their physique and character, like their smile or laugh. You are just not given a the chance or the time to pick up on these things in the online world.

[crystalt70]

Exactly. It also takes a while for people to realize that it isn't just about looks. I just learned this about 4 years ago when I met some genuinely good guys from another state. I was so used to guys around my area and saw no other examples of men. Guys here just aren't very decent people, so women go more for looks. I met some guys who were lacking in the looks department, but were really great guys. That's when I really saw that there's way more out there and it's better to really see people. These average or slightly less than average guys with visible flaws were way better guys than the typical hot a**hole around here. I would rather be treated right. That doesn't mean that there are no good looking good guys. They are just fewer and far between and it is better to get to know someone first before writing them off. I have always been an observer of people, but I have learned more about how to look for clues into a person by their speech, body language and eyes. Looks aren't all.

[Azara]

i never thought dating would be fun. i thought it would be degrading insulting disrespectful time wasting irrational artificial mind games. and it is. i dont date. not by conventional standards, bc they are bullshit.

im always very kind to guys if they show interest and im not interested. bc even though i dont believe in dating as a social self affirming ritual, i know a lot of people do and its their right.

i would not say women have it easier. dating customs infantilize demean and stunt intellectual spiritual and emotional growth of women. and there's little choice in the matter unless you want to be an outlier- like me. but most people dont. or they wouldn't be rationalizing endorsing perpetuating sexist dating practices in the first place. i. e. going along with it just bc.

and so you know the behavior you get from women who are assholes.. its no better for women when asking guys out. guys can be complete dickheads if they are not interested. and you'll say ' sure ok people can suck, but she doesn't 'have' to ask out,. she can wait'. no she can't. just like you go to women you are attracted to, a woman wants that choice. being asked out by someone you're not interested in is not somehow better than getting rejected by someone you are interested in. and at least in getting rejected by someone you want, you know you had the courage to go after it. satisfies the who iff not the heart.

and let me ask you this, would you want a woman who would only go out with you if you did not have the audacity to ask her out --bc its not your 'place'? kind of takes the appeal out of the appealing, in my opinion.

[SilenRose]

There is an Instagram account called ByeFelipe that shames guys who take rejection hard on dating sites like Tinder or even Facebook. A majority of the post are from douche bags but a small number are from guys who blew up because the girl was rude in her rejection. Now the true fans of the page will defend the women to the very end, but you have to admit that there is a possibility the guy would not have responded so rudely if the rejection wasn't so cold hearted.

I remember when I did online dating I started to get annoyed at the guys who messaged me who didn't read my profile preference. How did I know they didn't read it? Because I said I'm only interested in guys the same age or up to 4 years older then me. I was getting guys in their 30's,40's, 50's and up messaging me. So I started responding with a "Nope". However, one guy blew up after I sent that. I reported him to the website administration he was removed from the site. After that incident I decided I would just write a two sentence "thank you but not interested" response that I would copy and paste to each guy I wasn't interested in. Almost all the guys said thank you, and that they really appreciated the fact I politely turned them down because they normally receive silence or a rude rejection. It actually gives them hope that they will eventually find someone. :)

I've only had two altercations with guys after giving them the easy let down. Those two guys basically called me shallow and a gold digger. -_-

[ClearlyCanadian]

Thank you for trying, you're shinning example of decency in a sea of female degeneracy.

[Anonymous]

Let me open you up to a new world. "Rejection hurts like hell." Right? NO! WRONG! It's a MYTH, and nothing else. If rejection hurt like hell, all salespeople would be dead by now.
I work in sales, and so do many millions of others. Most of which you meet multiple times every day. People who are the door to every place you need to receive services from in order to survive. We eat "Rejection" for breakfast, lunch, and dinner everyday. We earn a living by it. And lots of us have pretty amazing lives and nice fat commission checks.
I'm so sorry to hear so many times over on dating websites claiming to give people advice. They're scams. They're just lame copy cats writing what you want to hear just to get you to click on their links and earn them money.
If you take rejection badly or it hits you hard, take a deeper look into yourself. It's also probably not your only problem in life. I suggest you either see some kind of counselor, or take on a part time or temporary sales job.
Look at it this way. What you are really doing is asking a question from someone to learn whether they want or need something, or not. Every human being has the right to ask questions. And every human being has the right to say yes or no to another person based on their needs or wants.
Imagine someone visits you at your home. You ask them: "Would you like a glass of water?" They answer no. They're just not thirsty. Would you take that as a rejection? Of course not.

So guys, man up and ask the question. Would you like...(a drink, coffee, lunch, dinner, to dance, to go on a picnic, go to the game, etc.)
We girls could say it too, but you guys mostly think we're control freaks and you run in the opposite direction. Otherwise it's tons easier to ask you a direct "yes or no" question than make guesses about your behavior or to play hundreds of weird uncomfortable games just to indirectly get you to ask us out. Trust me.

[Opinion Owner]

Oh ok. I agree. A rude rejection is really very bad and hurts. Don't do it. If someone asks you if you would like a glass of water, you wouldn't reply to them with rudeness, so don't do that with relationships either.
If you do it's probably from frustration and/or depression. So get that fixed first.

[fuuuark]

Easy to say when all women have to do is have a vagina.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks for your response and honesty. But did you read the part that I said: "it's tons easier to ask you a direct "yes or no" question than make guesses about your behavior or to play hundreds of weird uncomfortable games just to indirectly get you to ask us out."

[Opinion Owner]

Is that all you want in a woman? Her vagina? You don't really care about her facial features, or hair, or figure, or how she dresses, or her behavior, or mindset, or her family, or education, or wealth, or job, or how much she actually loves you?
Because if that's all you want, it's not too hard to get.

[Opinion Owner]

I will soon write a myTake about the equality of men and women.
It seems whoever started this myth and scam has gone too far in confusing the younger generation. But I'll just start with saying that men and women have equal rights to have their needs met. But the important part is knowing that they don't have the same needs.

[Opinion Owner]

By the way, if I weren't 10 years older than you, I would totally ask you out on a date.
:-)

[fauchelevent]

I think that a lot of the reasons women don't give responses is, as you said, sometimes when guys get rejected they start to insult you. I've had death threats or people saying that I should be raped before (even on this site) when they ask me for nudes or ask for my number and I point out that I already have a boyfriend and I'm not comfortable with those kinds of messages. Sometimes it's easier just to ignore them because no matter how nice the guys seem, you never know if they're going to flip when you say no :/

[johndoe43575]

I hear you. I believe there are a lot of rude guys out there, and as usual they ruin things for the rest of us lol

[fauchelevent]

They do. Good take by the way :)

[godfatherfan]

Here is the issue in regards to online dating. Unlike men, many women get swamped with emails. So unless they type out a standard rejection in a work document and just copy/paste, there are just too many to do. I first heard about it from my sister after my divorce when she sent me to POF. and all of the women I have dated have had those horror stories. emails from young kids (well kids to us 18-early 20's), wrong color then they are looking for, and married guys. all looking just for Sex and to cheat. Not interested in them. You just can't keep writing to all of them.

[crystalt70]

Some friends and I tried the online dating. POF was included in the sites we joined. I really didn't get that many messages compared to my very blonde friends. They received maybe 3-4 times the amount of messages than I did. The ones that I received were to ask for sex mostly. The others were from guys of races that I am not generally interested in, older men, really overweight/nerdy/unhygienic/badly dressed/etc men, obnoxious men, young men, etc. There were only two men in all these sites that I continued an outside conversation with. One turned out to be a player who really was just looking for sex, but was able to portray himself differently. The other turned out to be an overly clingy man who thought he was the shit and had many women issues. He also portrayed himself in a different light than what he really was. I tried to ignore some things that he said, but eventually spoke up and he didn't like that. He thought it was cute at first and called me a firecracker. Then he wanted to

[crystalt70]

basically tamp my personality under his boots. I was completely disregarded and told to "shut up and get in the kitchen to make me a sammich". No, dude. Make your own effing "sammich" since you want to be such an ass.

[Anonymous]

sadly when i turn a guy down he starts screaming at me and calling me a whore or an ugly bitch. he'll call me pretty much anything along those lines so i just dont reply when im not interested. oh but im not even on dating sites haha. i get messages on here or on other social websites. the second reason that i dont reply is because those guys are usually creeps. i've replied to a few just to be kind and they started talking about their weird fetishes or they tried to hook up with me. chill bruh im here to answer questions not date.

[bloodmountain1990]

Why should a person who isn't interested, on a dating site, respond to let me know they're not interested? Just by them not responding should be a good enough hint. In fact is rather be rejected right away then led on only to find out they weren't interested all along. You're either gonna like what I have or you won't. And if a girl rejects me, then onto the next one. Plenty of fish in the sea. Getting fixated on one person, unless they gave you false hope or showed tons of interest, is dumb.

If a girl messages me and I don't like her back then I won't respond either. Only time I responded was when a girl I didn't like repeatedly messaged me and was hitting on me and I just politely said I'm not interested.

[Watermelonoma]

This is why you don't online date. Online dating artificially boosts the ego of women who aren't even that great to begin with, but because they get so many messages, they become even more selective, as they've been granted this sort of artificial boost of self importance. It's way better to approach girls in the real world, as they usually won't flat out ignore you, seeing as hardly any of them... for all the online meandering that they do, almost never get approached offline. That's the reality, and its one I'd start taking advantage of if i were you

[genuinlysensitive]

In person dating also boosts women's ego. Just as much if not more. Maybe you don't get ignored, but a lot of guys still do. It hurts most when after they just walk past you, you hear them laughing and giggling about it with their friends. I imagine later they go online to post about why "No good guys approach them."

[Watermelonoma]

@genuinlysensitive

oh i get that kind of cold treatment VERY often lol. Few guys are immune from that

[JohnBhoy94]

If I get rejected I move on to the next.

There are many reasons as to why the hundreds of women you sent messages to didn't reply, literally hundreds of reasons... but why would you care about it? Why make it such a big deal?

All in all, online dating sucks. You'll have more chances of being rejected there than when you meet a girl in real life.

[Scrambled]

Dating only becomes cruel when you start realizing that who you are is not worthy of whatever female you trying to attract. You start realizing that everything in the movies and what mommy told you is a bunch of BS. Online? women get lots of requests. My friend told me that she started being polite with saying no but after a while it became to much so she just ignored the majority.

[JulyAndrews]

What were you told by movies and you're mother?

[Scrambled]

@JulyAndrews I opened gag and @JohnBhoy94 my take was featured. He said it nicely: "You know that film about a girl this guy really, really wants? The one where he goes to her house with a bunch of roses a sings at her window whilst she cries and begs him to whisk her away in the moonlight? Well the reality check is: this never happens and women hate it". That my dear is movie msg's. Off the top of my head, no, characters like Harry Potter, Hugh Grant in Notting Hill, Shia LaBeouf in Transformers etc (dorky, yet nice guys) don't get girls in real life (not in Megan Fox's level anyway). Then, those pesky msg's like Beauty and the beast (beauty is on the inside), even though the underlying theme is really a rich man gets rewarded with being transformed into a beautiful prince to end his curse of being ugly lol. I could go on. Then there are those other msg's like John boy goes on about. I will lend another example; The family guy with Nicolas Cage... The message, family is more important than

[Scrambled]

... work. So somebody watches this and falls into the trap of love saves all, yet dies in poverty with no pension and ends up on gag complaining why women go for rich guys? That's the reality. Again, I could go on forever. But then, lastly, mommy's msg's. I read a brilliant book called "No more Mr Nice guy" by Robert Glover. A psychologist who investigates nice guy syndrome. You see... I am a nice guy and I never got women, so I tried finding the reasons why. Anyway, mothers teach their sons to be respectful of women, be kind, put them first, never hit them, never treat them like objects, and basically moms teach their sons to put women on a pedestal. if this info is delivered to a child with the absence of male advice (like go for the girl, sex is great, you need to do x and y to get a girl), the kid becomes overly nice. That's why "nice guy" dads, absent fathers, or heavy religious families breed this type of person.

[Anonymous]

When it comes to online dating I don't feel it's necessary to give a rejection response. Likely the guy copied and pasted the same message to every attractive user in a 20 mile radius so I just don't see why it's important to respond. I disagree with the notion that a guy "deserves" a response just because he sent you a message. No he doesn't. No response is a response. It's not like you know her or she ignored you in person so why be so insistent for a response? What does that written rejection do for you that a lack of response didn't? It's the same thing right?

[genuinlysensitive]

Gee, guys don't deserve basic human kindness? Ever wonder why you are single?

[genuinlysensitive]

And let me guess whenever pondering why you are single its always other peoples' fault. Never yours. Just like everything else in life you think you are perfect...

[Roostah]

You realize how many thirsty beta males like yourself message and flood women inbox with generic "hi, wanna go out". It's not their fault if they don't respond. Your average girl facebook in 1 hr.

https://i.imgur.com/u4Ld9wR.jpg

So basically if you wanna get a response froma girl. Do it in person. Non of this texting shit.

[Anonymous]

Well man I could not date girls in my area even though I was good looking because I felt shy asking girls for a date.
I met a girl on this site and she had the same story.
We talked for about a month and she then gave me her number.
I finally gathered the courage and asked her to be my online girlfriend and she accepted.
We are still in the online relationship and are online girlfriend and boyfriend.
We talk a lot to each other and everything is awesome.
You have to find the girl who loves you as there is somebody for everyone in this world.
Thanks.
Sorry can't disclose identity so an anonymous post.
Girl's name start's with 's'.

[Anonymous]

I don't think I've ever dated someone in the sense that you're talking about. I've had girlfriends, but I don't really do dates. There are some similar parts on my end between dating and a relationship, but I have no recollection of ever "dating" a person. I would say I am "dating" someone but the person I'm dating isn't someone I go on dates with per se.

Turning someone down can be done with tact, but I think the problem with girls is that they've probably turned down so many different guys in their lifetime, with each one giving a different reaction to their rejection that they've gotten to the point where it's easier for them to just be blunt and rude about it than for them to try and spare the guys feelings. They've probably were very considerate of the guys feelings in the past but even after being considerate some guys may have gone off on them that they felt that there was no point in being tactful.

[love2run13]

How can you have gotten girlfriends and not gone on dates? lol

[Opinion Owner]

I said, "I have no recollection of ever 'dating' a person". And I said, "I don't really do dates." Dating someone and being in a relationship with someone is two completely different things. If you're dating someone, that person isn't your significant other. They aren't your boyfriend or girlfriend. I've had girlfriends, but not a single girl that became my girlfriend did I ever go on a date with before deciding if I want her to be my girlfriend.

[awesome_possum]

I was in a 3 year relationship and we never "dated" either.

[Anonymous]

if a message comes across as sincere and respectful (not talking about the ten top pick up lines coming from a cheesy profile and someone calling your babe), even though i cannot potentially be interested due to my preferences, i take a min to write back something hey thanks for your message and briefly explain why not interested in a polite way as well. Also, some website allow you to set up your account based on your preferences, this reduces amount of messages from people that you will never be interested in, as their won't have an option of contacting you available to them. My profile has always attracted a lot of older men and guys from overseas, which i am not interested in that, so I set my preferences based on age and distance.

Must say that some of profiles look so fishy to start with, the only reaction they get from you is delete... sadly for them

[aficionado]

A guy needs to be insanely rich, extremely good looking, or both, to even have a chance at dating. If not, it would be futile to even try approaching women (online or offline).

This is the reason I don't approach women at all. I know my limits, and I'm not willing to allow my already low self esteem to hit rock bottom due to rejections from multiple women.

[YourFutureEx]

Oh come on dude.

[aficionado]

@YourFutureEx
Why pal? What's wrong?
I mean... as much as women go on about personality, kindness, intelligence etc., in the end it all boils down to looks and/or money, isn't it?

[YourFutureEx]

Not necessarily. :/

[JohnBhoy94]

That's a pretty sexist statement @aficionado... it wouldn't surprise me if you never had a girlfriend.

[aficionado]

@JohnBhoy94
I did have girlfriends at several points during my late teens and early 20s. But have been single for almost 5 years now.

I'm not being sexist. Just being realistic.

[JohnBhoy94]

No, what you said was sexist. No wonder you've been single for so long.

[aficionado]

@JohnBhoy94

You feel it's sexist, it's just your opinion. And what I mentioned was my opinion.
Yeah, obviously I have been single because I don't approach women, due to my morbid fear of rejection. And it's a known fact that women don't approach a man unless he is rich and/or good-looking. So yeah, it's my own choice. I don't approach women, so obviously it means I'll have to remain single. And I'm not whining or complaining about it.

[JohnBhoy94]

You're not whining or complaining about it yet you think women only go for men that are rich and/or are good-looking, THAT'S as good as whining.

Women go for men go for, people they are interested in and people that fit their preferences.

You're correct on one thing: if you don't approach women you won't get any where.

[aficionado]

@JohnBhoy94

I have some self respect and dignity, so I don't want to approach women knowing that they'd reject me anyway because I'm neither good looking nor rich. And it saves a ton of insult, frustration and humiliation which results from multiple, repeated rejections.

So yeah, I'm not whining!

[AdoringFan]

A good personality is a valuable trait, having your additude will definitely not be attractive to women. So you might wanna stop feeling sorry for yourself and get your shit together. Have a good one.

[aficionado]

@AdoringFan
You kidding me? I'm NOT feeling sorry for myself! If I did, I would be whining about being single, blaming women for it, feeling dejected etc. But I'm fine this way.
And personality? It's hogwash! Women are only kidding themselves when they say they look for ' goo personality' in a man. Because personality only comes AFTER the initial spark, which almost always requires the man to possess good looks and/or lots of money.
So yeah, I'm not sorry about myself. Neither am I blaming women for it. I just understand that I don't satisfy the 'partner requirements' of women, so I voluntarily took myself out of the dating game to avoid unnecessary disappointments, insults and heartbreaks. I hope I'm clear.

[AdoringFan]

Often when people tend to find fault in all other people but themselves, they are actually the problem. Whether you say it directly or not, saying: "A guy needs to be insanely rich, extremely good looking, or both, to even have a chance at dating." implies that you think that women's standards are too high and thus you are blaming them. Because "it can't possibly be about you, it must be them who are the reason you get rejected".
Also, have you even considered the fact that the extremely rich or hot guys are just a small percentage of the male population, very small. So that automatically means that a very small percentage of women even get to be with those people. What do you think the rest of the women is doing, sitting under the bridge and complaining to people on the internet? Not according to the increasing population growth.

[JohnBhoy94]

@aficionado.

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

Out of 100 women you ask out you'll be rejected by most. I would say 13 would agree to on a date with you and 3 of those will end up in your bed. These numbers might vary, but that's the closest I can get it to.

You aren't being rejected because you're "ugly" or because you're not "rich", you're being rejected because of your ATTITUDE. You're constantly shooting yourself down because apparently you don't fit what most girls/women want. You're basically feeling very sorry for yourself and EVERY single woman you meet can feel it.

If you went out without a care in the world women would flock to you.

[Remonster]

I'd stay clear of online dating as a guy unless you're extremely confident and look fantastic. In which case I ask you: What the hell are you doing behind the computer instead of going out, anyway?

Online dating via dating websites just sucks for the most part. I had more luck getting in touch with girls via Facebook (groups) and other means of instant communication.

[pavlove]

#real

[Anonymous]

It just is. And online dating is exacerbating the situation, because it's full of desperate men and full of very average women that learned it was an easy source of ego-boosting. As a result women online think they can do much better than they can IRL (for more than ONS), so a few studs lure and sleep with them all. Your best bet as a man is to not do online dating if you are not decidedly good looking, because if you do it anyway, you are at best wasting your time.

[Anonymous]

Honesty goes a long way.

If I could have only ONE wish. It would not be that I can find the girl of my dreams, it would just be that all girls learn to treat guys with respect so I don't have to see my friends and family suffer too.

If you don't like a guy, tell him, if you're not interested, say 'N. o." it's only two letters, and if you're lonely and need someone to talk to then make some friends, don't just string guys along, and when you are interested say it don't just use F'in signals.

[Remonster]

Girls are only good at being direct when the dude is undesirable. But as soon as they can get something out of you, aka 'the friend zone' aka 'the male slave / emotional sponge zone' they become a lot more vague and sinister.