Counter-Traditional Dating

[the_rake]

Traditional dating offers the following advice, e.g.

- Buy her drinks

- Pay for dates

- Just wait and eventually the right woman will come along

- Pick a girl and commit to her

Basically, there are all sorts of things wrong with this advice, e.g. why should you pay for a woman when she wants a man as bad as you want a woman? What good is waiting around going to do if you want to find a woman? Why should you commit to one girl, when that one girl's sexual history has hardly been exclusive to one man!

This is why more and more sites are giving men advice to help counter these female-oriented dating patterns. The main theories are based around PUA (pick-up artistry), red pill (anti-feminist male dating advice) and real social dynamics (dating advice based on actual field experience of cold-approach in bars and on the street). In other words, there is a world where women have significant privilege in the dating world (checkout the 20% man theory - where 20% of men are succesful with 80% of women). If men are ever to be successful, they need dating advice that counters the likes of cosmopolitan magizine. These theories are as follows:

Pick-Up Artistry

Pick-Up Artistry did not receive much public recognition until Neil Strauss published his book, The Game in 2004. Before that, there was the Mystery Method which outlined the main 'rules' for meeting and attracting women based on pseudo-darwinistic theories of female attraction and the idea that women 'shit-test' men with congruency and compliancy tests to determine his masculinity. Men overcome this by 'defusing' 'shit-tests', using routines of canned material, negs (backhanded compliments or uninentional insults designed to manipulate a woman into seeking validation) and other mechanical / pre-scripted devices. The PUA industry has since shifted away from the belief that this is necessary and instead emphasises the necessity of confidence and 'inner-game' to attract women.

Red Pill

The red pill dating advice, by contrast, is focussed more on the mindset that men adopt, and is focussed particularly on the idea that women are more attracted to masculine, confident attributes in men. This is further juxtaposed against feminist ideals that men should treat women as equals rather than people that are biologically different. It also disregards the white knight notion of male chivalry that is falsely heralded by women everywhere as attractive in prospective suitors. The focus is on self-improvement to become more attractive, confident men, and establishing dominance as men in their relationships with women.

Real Social Dynamics

The RSD crowd are a group of party animals / dating & lifestyle gurus who agree with the Red Pill assumptions that dominance and confidence are attractive qualities in men but do away with all of the anti-feminist dogma and bitter / misogynistic ideals that many red pillers hold against women. What the instructors at RSD do preach is the importance of approaching women (LOTS of women) with a positive and fun-loving vibe.

Conclusion

In short, none of the above parties or dating philosophies are anywhere close to ideal (I can think of all kinds of objections to each and every one of them, including RSD) but if you're a man in 21st century feminist society that's down on his luck, then you have options besides the bogstandard traditional dating advice for men that needs to die.

[Anonymous]

The thing is, and I admit it myself as a woman, the emancipation of women meant progress in many ways, but on a sexual basis we became free and since we are animals, we went back to a more primal form. Its ok for women to follow their lust again, relationships and plain fucking are separate things and women can give themselves to the alpha male again, just for sex. Many beta guys get hurt because their bully or boss gets to dump their loads in the girls they love but can't even get a kiss from after 6 dates, without any effort or respect. They take it personal, get angry, and write theories that are misogynistic as an outlet.

[the_rake]

It's true that women have created the different types of men you see and the beta males slowly begin to adopt alpha male tactics when they are motivated enough to make an effort to become the man women will want to sleep with.. And then women can't understand why they can't find a man that will treat them right.

[Armourdillo]

how should they feel happy about this?

[KENKONG]

pick up artistry is gayest thing ever.

[Scrambledagain]

Pick up artistry saved me. It's the only dating advice men can get. Attraction is a skill that can be learnt for guys who were cursed with bad genes.

[WickedImpudence]

PUA, Red Pill, RSD. They aren't "Dating" advice. It's advice for guys to try to use mind games to "trick" women into sleeping with them. As if we are all alike and simplemindedly predictable. None of it is about finding a person you actually connect with. I'm sorry women are privileged in the sense that they control who they have sex. It must be SO horrible for the guys who only want the most attractive women and only for sex, but those women aren't interested!

[the_rake]

sorry, but most guys need some sort of structure for meeting and attracting women, they don't make it easy after all and put up all kinds of hoops and hurdles for men to navigate.

'guys only want the most attractive women and only for sex'

and women only want the most high status men - e. g. wealth, socioeconomic status, dominance, etc. See, two can play at this game.

[WickedImpudence]

I'm sorry, I. Should have been more specific: PUA/ Red Pill etc guys. Not All guys. I actually read "The Game" and that's all it's about. How to score "10's". There's even a section on how to negotiate no strings attached sex with a woman who doesn't do hookups. And it assumes all men want this.

I get that guys want a guidebook, so do girls! But neither sex should be subscribing to bullshit that dehumanizes the other. When people's innate vulnerabilities are involved, it shouldn't be a game.

[the_rake]

basically, within each of these schools there are different trends. hell go on any so-called PUA forum and the places are full of self-hatred - why PUA doesn't work, why you should do such and such instead. basically even the PUAs don't identify with the labels themselves which is ironic because they are doing everything PUA:

- going on PUA forums
- reading the literature
- getting actual field experience clubbing and doing cold approach on the street ('day-game')

then the same guys will turn around and insist lividly that they are not interested in 'PUA' and use quotes to describe 'PUA' as if the definition was somehow vague:

pick-up - to meet and attract women, to seduce the opposite sex, literally to pick-up women.

you can go ahead and hate on the techniques and gimmicks if you want but as a man that's actually got out there, tried and tested much of this theory I can tell you that there would be no sanity without a few tricks up your sleeve - just like a boxer needs his feints

[the_rake]

and his combos and tricky footwork, men need to have a strategy - especially when they are expected to carry the burden of seducing women.

girls, you know this is true: you have deliberately created the situation so that this is the case.

[WickedImpudence]

We don't want tricks. We want honest to god chemistry and love. We make it hard because we're taught that men value what they have to work for ( I was always told that) and we think that the harder it is for a guy to get us, the less likely he will be to just use us. We hope it's a way to filter the exact kind of guys who would just want to have sex with us. The best way to seduce a woman is to want HER for HER, and to wsnt her to like you for you.

[the_rake]

'We don't want tricks. We want honest to god chemistry and love.'

Well, lots of men (myself included) would be infinitely happy to go down this route but women have made it impossible. They don't respect men that respect them.

'We make it hard because we're taught that men value what they have to work for'

And that's the problem.

[WickedImpudence]

I just told you we do. Maybe you are just trying for the wrong women and blamming all of womenkind for the actions of some vapid bimbo bitches who play games. It's the same as assuming every guy is going to use me for sex. I don't, but I'm certainly cautious about whom I trust to get intimate with. In the same way, guys should be more choosy about who they put effort into knowing. Screw approach tactics and be a friend first. If the girl isn't into you after you two have gotten a chance to see how great the other is, she's not for you! Move on, and stop blamming women for being picky about some of the most crucial decisions in her life!

[the_rake]

You make it sound like we deliberately go out of our way to find the most evil, manipulative women we can. Please, PUAs/red pillers/etc. are a product of their society and the women in it. If it was possible to find more reasonably attractive women that were not total bitches, we would. Clubs and bars are terrible options and if you are inferring that then you are 100% correct but lo and behold they happen to be one of the few socially acceptable places to a approach a woman without being maced, LOL. Grow a penis and ball sack then come back and te me how men are just being shallow or taking unnecessary measures or whatever. Fact is that men like me are just adapting to the nature of the ball court. All the measures described are necessary evils for dealing with some truly awful bitches.

[WickedImpudence]

I'll agree that those type of men are a product of their society, a society where women are another form of wealth calculation whose value is decided by how she looks. Women ourselves are struggling to escape those definitions (and some of those of us whose physical attributes enable us to be 'privileged' by value may not feel the need to escape them). Note I do not say men are responsible for this!

[the_rake]

Women seriously need to stop complaining about how their value is determined by their looks. Not only is it important for men to look good, they are also expected to be the breadwinner, not to mention dominant personel in a relationship and dating in general. In short for men, it's looks, money AND status. Besides if it's such a huge issue, women can date within their own league - just don't cherry pick men of high status then complain that men courting them in their own league are only interested in looks, because it's b. s. Not only do women have MUCH higher standards than men, they are 10 times better at lying about it, whether it's deluding themselves or deluding other people. As for men being a product of their society, I personally (can't speak for other men) would behave much differently if the game was different. I'm not acting in a way because of the gender roles assigned to me, I'm acting in such a way because it is strategically optimal.

[TheHooptyMiata]

I'm sorry, but picking up chicks is not a 'trick'. It's a fucking art form.
Also, I think the amount of hot women who've fallen for my 'tricks' would surprise you.

[Botchie]

Dating is hard and constantly evolving. Find someone who thinks the same thing and marry them. Because you can both agree that the only rules that should define dating are the ones you set for yourselves.

[the_rake]

yep, I hate these rules. the only rules I set are the ones to repel women who apply them in the first place, hah.

[ThisDudeHere]

How I wish dating was just a straight forward type of thing where both simply express what they want and... well... do it. Instead of all these games.

[the_rake]

well, it's how I go about things anyway... check out models by mark manson.

to be honest, even if a majority of women do not respect the virtues of direct intent, honesty and vulnerability, I would rather they all rejected me until I found somebody that does.

[ThisDudeHere]

Precisely my thoughts as well. Better to have no one than settle by essentially giving up and letting the game win.

[gaaxure]

https://captionsearch.com/pix/lhhlwnblns.jpg

Interesting.

[the_rake]

oh jesus christ I wish I could go back and use a different pic

[gaaxure]

Hey, don't get me wrong. I thought that's what your intention was. Trolling is an art you know.

[9mfeo]

Why did you choose a photo of a child who can't be older than about 14 for that meme? Gross, dude.

[the_rake]

calm down, it didn't occur to me until now.

[9mfeo]

Maybe you should have.

[GirlsLie]

The only drink anyone should be buying that girl in the first picture is some grape juice. She looks 12 years old.

[Polocrew]

Dude who even do all that seriously? Lol just asking. Exept Wk nerds who often bitch about getting bullied to school councellor just cos some guy accidentally push them.

[the_rake]

Lol well eventually the nerds will want/need better advice also, so they have PUA, red pill, etc.

[BackInGame]

be attractive and she'll buy YOU a drink and won't disappear - rather she'll ask you to escort to her home and you know how story continues,,,