Counter-Traditional Dating


Traditional dating offers the following advice, e.g.

- Buy her drinks

- Pay for dates

- Just wait and eventually the right woman will come along

- Pick a girl and commit to her

Basically, there are all sorts of things wrong with this advice, e.g. why should you pay for a woman when she wants a man as bad as you want a woman? What good is waiting around going to do if you want to find a woman? Why should you commit to one girl, when that one girl's sexual history has hardly been exclusive to one man!

This is why more and more sites are giving men advice to help counter these female-oriented dating patterns. The main theories are based around PUA (pick-up artistry), red pill (anti-feminist male dating advice) and real social dynamics (dating advice based on actual field experience of cold-approach in bars and on the street). In other words, there is a world where women have significant privilege in the dating world (checkout the 20% man theory - where 20% of men are succesful with 80% of women). If men are ever to be successful, they need dating advice that counters the likes of cosmopolitan magizine. These theories are as follows:

Pick-Up Artistry

Counter-Traditional Dating

Pick-Up Artistry did not receive much public recognition until Neil Strauss published his book, The Game in 2004. Before that, there was the Mystery Method which outlined the main 'rules' for meeting and attracting women based on pseudo-darwinistic theories of female attraction and the idea that women 'shit-test' men with congruency and compliancy tests to determine his masculinity. Men overcome this by 'defusing' 'shit-tests', using routines of canned material, negs (backhanded compliments or uninentional insults designed to manipulate a woman into seeking validation) and other mechanical / pre-scripted devices. The PUA industry has since shifted away from the belief that this is necessary and instead emphasises the necessity of confidence and 'inner-game' to attract women.

Red Pill

Counter-Traditional Dating

The red pill dating advice, by contrast, is focussed more on the mindset that men adopt, and is focussed particularly on the idea that women are more attracted to masculine, confident attributes in men. This is further juxtaposed against feminist ideals that men should treat women as equals rather than people that are biologically different. It also disregards the white knight notion of male chivalry that is falsely heralded by women everywhere as attractive in prospective suitors. The focus is on self-improvement to become more attractive, confident men, and establishing dominance as men in their relationships with women.

Real Social Dynamics

Counter-Traditional Dating

The RSD crowd are a group of party animals / dating & lifestyle gurus who agree with the Red Pill assumptions that dominance and confidence are attractive qualities in men but do away with all of the anti-feminist dogma and bitter / misogynistic ideals that many red pillers hold against women. What the instructors at RSD do preach is the importance of approaching women (LOTS of women) with a positive and fun-loving vibe.


In short, none of the above parties or dating philosophies are anywhere close to ideal (I can think of all kinds of objections to each and every one of them, including RSD) but if you're a man in 21st century feminist society that's down on his luck, then you have options besides the bogstandard traditional dating advice for men that needs to die.

Counter-Traditional Dating
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Most Helpful Girl

  • Anonymous
    The thing is, and I admit it myself as a woman, the emancipation of women meant progress in many ways, but on a sexual basis we became free and since we are animals, we went back to a more primal form. Its ok for women to follow their lust again, relationships and plain fucking are separate things and women can give themselves to the alpha male again, just for sex. Many beta guys get hurt because their bully or boss gets to dump their loads in the girls they love but can't even get a kiss from after 6 dates, without any effort or respect. They take it personal, get angry, and write theories that are misogynistic as an outlet.
    Is this still revelant?
    • the_rake

      It's true that women have created the different types of men you see and the beta males slowly begin to adopt alpha male tactics when they are motivated enough to make an effort to become the man women will want to sleep with.. And then women can't understand why they can't find a man that will treat them right.

    • how should they feel happy about this?

Most Helpful Guy

    pick up artistry is gayest thing ever.
    Like 11 People
    Is this still revelant?
    • Pick up artistry saved me. It's the only dating advice men can get. Attraction is a skill that can be learnt for guys who were cursed with bad genes.

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What Girls & Guys Said

  • WickedImpudence
    PUA, Red Pill, RSD. They aren't "Dating" advice. It's advice for guys to try to use mind games to "trick" women into sleeping with them. As if we are all alike and simplemindedly predictable. None of it is about finding a person you actually connect with. I'm sorry women are privileged in the sense that they control who they have sex. It must be SO horrible for the guys who only want the most attractive women and only for sex, but those women aren't interested!
    Like 2 People
    • the_rake

      sorry, but most guys need some sort of structure for meeting and attracting women, they don't make it easy after all and put up all kinds of hoops and hurdles for men to navigate.

      'guys only want the most attractive women and only for sex'

      and women only want the most high status men - e. g. wealth, socioeconomic status, dominance, etc. See, two can play at this game.

    • I'm sorry, I. Should have been more specific: PUA/ Red Pill etc guys. Not All guys. I actually read "The Game" and that's all it's about. How to score "10's". There's even a section on how to negotiate no strings attached sex with a woman who doesn't do hookups. And it assumes all men want this.

      I get that guys want a guidebook, so do girls! But neither sex should be subscribing to bullshit that dehumanizes the other. When people's innate vulnerabilities are involved, it shouldn't be a game.

    • the_rake

      basically, within each of these schools there are different trends. hell go on any so-called PUA forum and the places are full of self-hatred - why PUA doesn't work, why you should do such and such instead. basically even the PUAs don't identify with the labels themselves which is ironic because they are doing everything PUA:

      - going on PUA forums
      - reading the literature
      - getting actual field experience clubbing and doing cold approach on the street ('day-game')

      then the same guys will turn around and insist lividly that they are not interested in 'PUA' and use quotes to describe 'PUA' as if the definition was somehow vague:

      pick-up - to meet and attract women, to seduce the opposite sex, literally to pick-up women.

      you can go ahead and hate on the techniques and gimmicks if you want but as a man that's actually got out there, tried and tested much of this theory I can tell you that there would be no sanity without a few tricks up your sleeve - just like a boxer needs his feints

    • Show All
  • Botchie
    Dating is hard and constantly evolving. Find someone who thinks the same thing and marry them. Because you can both agree that the only rules that should define dating are the ones you set for yourselves.
    Like 3 People
    • the_rake

      yep, I hate these rules. the only rules I set are the ones to repel women who apply them in the first place, hah.

  • ThisDudeHere
    How I wish dating was just a straight forward type of thing where both simply express what they want and... well... do it. Instead of all these games.
    Like 2 People
    • the_rake

      well, it's how I go about things anyway... check out models by mark manson.

      to be honest, even if a majority of women do not respect the virtues of direct intent, honesty and vulnerability, I would rather they all rejected me until I found somebody that does.

    • Precisely my thoughts as well. Better to have no one than settle by essentially giving up and letting the game win.

  • gaaxure
    Like 2 People
    • the_rake

      oh jesus christ I wish I could go back and use a different pic

    • gaaxure

      Hey, don't get me wrong. I thought that's what your intention was. Trolling is an art you know.

  • 9mfeo
    Why did you choose a photo of a child who can't be older than about 14 for that meme? Gross, dude.
    LikeDisagree 4 People
    • the_rake

      calm down, it didn't occur to me until now.

    • 9mfeo

      Maybe you should have.

  • GirlsLie
    The only drink anyone should be buying that girl in the first picture is some grape juice. She looks 12 years old.
    Like 2 People
  • Polocrew
    Dude who even do all that seriously? Lol just asking. Exept Wk nerds who often bitch about getting bullied to school councellor just cos some guy accidentally push them.
    • the_rake

      Lol well eventually the nerds will want/need better advice also, so they have PUA, red pill, etc.

  • BackInGame
    be attractive and she'll buy YOU a drink and won't disappear - rather she'll ask you to escort to her home and you know how story continues,,,
    Disagree 1 Person