Is it true that nice guys finish last?

[Anonymous]

[pineappleshortcare]

That phrase comes from business, not dating.

No - nice guys who date nice girls have nice relationships. Nice guys pining over troubled girls or girls who aren’t into them have their own baggage, but lots of fellows meet sweet gals and have cute, loving coupledoms.

[Asker]

www.thesleuthjournal.com/.../eggs.jpg

What about the phrase: Don't put all your eggs in one basket? Is it OK to use this metaphor if we're not farmers? :)
media.istockphoto.com/.../farmers-loading-hay-at-a-traditional-haywagon-picture-id517342389

Make hay while the sun's shinning.

So do you think there's a shred of truth that some girls like bad boys?

[pineappleshortcare]

Troubled girls and girls with emotional issues do. Nice girls want nice boys.

[Asker]

Good to know. A lot of guys on this site are asking how to get laid. A good way might be to become a jerk and look for the troubled girls and girls with emotional issues.
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[pineappleshortcare]

You don’t even have to be a jerk - just work out and hit the bar scene.

[Asker]

What I mean by being a jerk... is just tell them what they want to hear, even if it's a complete lie. If they give you their number and ask you if you'll call, say yes, of course. And then don't.

[pineappleshortcare]

like I said, if you’re fit and in a casual environment all that bull isn’t necessary. Plus it creates drama for you to deal with and that’s a drag.

[pineappleshortcare]

What guys confuse is correlation & causation. Dudes who are aiming to rack up numbers usually work out, dress in a way that suits them, have attractive haircuts, and most importantly - actively seek out chicks who are dtf or on their level in a mental way. Some are jerks, some are decent dudes and most - like everyone - are in between.

Noticing these guys pull chicks is like noticing the guy shooting baskets 5 hours a day has the highest free throw percentage.

Doing a bunch of favors for a hot chick won’t make her bone you. You aren’t into her because she’s the best cook - or apparently even that she treats you nicely.

Getting hotter by putting in the work is the only way to get hotter partners.

That doesn’t mean you can’t date plenty of girls. But “nice guys” who are frustrated are usually trying to get a) a particular girl who just isn’t going to work and need to move on from B) good looking, charming chicks who c) if she dates jerks, has some emotional issues.

[pineappleshortcare]

There are TONS of super sweet girls out there though. You’ve gotta figure out why you keep going for the fucked up ones.

[Asker]

Guys just want girls who will fuck. That's it.

[pineappleshortcare]

If that’s all you want then gym + bar is enough.

[pineappleshortcare]

Judging by your responses, though, it sounds like you have this jones for a wild girl. You don’t think ride or die bitches with gang bangers & bikers are into all the same stuff the guys are? This point is being lost on you, man.

[pineappleshortcare]

Stop doing favors for chicks if it’s making you do frustrated. It’s a long shot that you’ll get fucked for fixing someone’s computer - especially by the kind of chick who’d ask you to do it for free. Leave that lifestyle behind - it’s not a jerk move to ask for money to do things like that.

[Asker]

I won't ask for money, I'll just say, no! That'd be much more rewarding.

[pineappleshortcare]

Absolutely. Know your worth.

[pineappleshortcare]

Thanks for MHO.

[Asker]

Most of the time when people ask you to do them a favor... we don't give an honest answer.

Sally: Bob, would you like to come over and help me paint my apartment?
Bob: I would, but I have to work. (A lie)

But from now on:

Sally: Bob, would you like to come over and help me paint my apartment?
Bob: Fuck no! Why would I want to do that?
Sally: To do me a favor?
Bob: Why would I do that? :)

[-Lisa-]

Yes. İts true

[Asker]

Care to elaborate?

[-Lisa-]

Badboys seems sexy and cool but nice guys are not

[Asker]

www.denny.co.uk/.../presentations.jpg

If you were asked to speak at the annual nice guys convention... what advice would Lisa give to the thousands of nice guys attending?

[FellowTraveler]

Hello Lisa

Could you please clarify 'badboys seems sexy and cool, but nice guys are not'?

[OlderAndWiser]

There are two different kind of "nice guys" and one type is not very nice.

I consider myself to be a genuine nice guy and I hope to be the last guy my girlfriend ever has in her life, so I am hoping to finish last! :)

[Asker]

That's good. I should update this question. Yes, it asked if nice guys finish last... but maybe I should of asked: "Do bad boys finish first?"

I'm more interested in why women are attracted to them. Especially the ones who flat out treat them like shit. And I knew before I posted this, that women would claim that none of this is true. They're all just looking for the nice guys. Yep, sure. All those nice guys on Tinder... lol

[OlderAndWiser]

Women are attracted to confidence and most bad boys have that swagger that makes them look confident.

[Asker]

I think that's probably 75% of it. Confidence is huge, but I still believe, for some girls... they'd like an extra, exciting layer of bad boy, spread on top.
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[OlderAndWiser]

Yes, some women have not outgrown their adolescent rebelliousness.

[Asker]

I'm not defending those girls... but what if it's not that? What if they crave the excitement of it all? Had Bonnie not have chosen Clyde... do you think she'd be happy with a certified public account, named, Todd? :)

[OlderAndWiser]

Perhaps not. But maybe she would have been happy with a professional boxer or a jazz musician and, maybe when she had a baby, her view of the world would have changed entirely. We will never know anything except that her life of crime came to an end with a police ambush on a Louisiana back road.

[Asker]

Was Ted Kennedy there, or am I thinking about another demise?

[OlderAndWiser]

I believe that Chappaquiddick is in Massachusetts. For Bonnie, it would more likely have been Joe Kennedy.

[Asker]

LOL

Well you've won the very prestigious MHO award.
23 of those, and 8 bucks... will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks!
cdn.foodbeast.com/.../Starbucks-Hot-Cup-STK-01.jpg

[OlderAndWiser]

I appreciate you adding to my now worthless collection of xPer points!

[Asker]

What's up with that? Were they breaking the bank?

[OlderAndWiser]

I just learned about it a few minutes ago. I have 18,000 unredeemed points so I am not too happy.

[Asker]

I only have a little over a thousand, and someone told me last week.
It's not a big deal on the grand scheme of things, but why do they continue to give you points? "Answer this question, and you get two points!"

I no longer understand why they kept the points..

[OlderAndWiser]

They need volunteers (such as me) to help them run this site and points/site privileges give the illusion of being rewarded for service and loyalty.

[Asker]

Well, I had a friend here that told me about the point thing. She said that people would leave the site. I told her that people won't leave, but it will change the dynamic of the site.
Like when they message you and ask you to comment on crap you have no interest in.
Who would still keep doing that? lol

[OlderAndWiser]

G@G will very likely lose many users, including some in the upper echelon, and I wold not be surprised if they reinstated the redemption system.

[Asker]

Well, she said you got 10 bucks for 10,000 points.
So I just figured the site was more about entertainment, rather than rewards.
But who knows. I do wish there were alternatives to this site.

[FellowTraveler]

@OlderAndWiser - nicely done!

[Lance1965]

Sadly, that is often the case.

[Asker]

What do you suppose the logic is behind this. I think you're right, but it still seems counter-intuitive.

[Stradivarious]

I think it's a little bit of both. I'm a nice guy, that kind one that hears the girl weeping and says "you gonna be fine, you deserves more..", and I never date and never kissed any girl (I'm 19 LOL). But I don't blame them. I'm shy and I really hate parties and to meet new people, and I understand them for not to like this kind of people. But when I keep sad or irritated with girl's taste for outgoing men, I just think "I'm happy alone and happy for to be who I am, and the girls who're ignoring me for my personality doesn't know what they're missing XD, I can be confident and a good partner". The main girl's complaint its nice guys doesn't inspire confidence and sex appeal, but I am confident (I can't speak about sex appeal because I'm not the most appropriated person to do this) and I don't need to expose it to everyone. But of course, there is a plenty of nice guys that really sucks. They are like Marty McFly father: weak, unconfident, bad in confrontations, doesn't face the possibility of a denial just for fear and cowardness. These ones aren't just bad boyf but also bad friends, sons, leaders, anything... Do you like to have a friend like George McFly? I guess you'd not... But there are nice guys that are nice guys because they had a good family, grew up in a healthy ambiance and wouldn't be capable to hurt girls, to cheat them. They're just misunderstood.

[Asker]

I know just what you mean. You can be confident, but not outgoing, and some girls don't get it.
So they'll go out a get burnt by the confident smooth talker, and then run to you an cry on your shoulder.

[DinaM]

I've said this before, but...

It's not about being a "bad guy" it's about having confidence. Too often the self-proclaimed "nice guy" is timid and nervous, often with some self-esteem issues, and sometimes he's also bitter and spiteful because no girls seem interested in him... which makes him less attractive. Or, he's just too shy to make it clear that he's interested.

The "bad boy," however, is confident. He feels good about himself. He smiles, he flirts, he makes eye contact. he makes it clear he's interested, and we return the favour -- we tend to like those who like us; a concept psychologists call reciprocity.

Less confident daters may even unintentionally spoil the attraction by averting their gaze out of anxiety, being slow to respond in conversation, or offering brief answers; all of which signal dislike. As a result, they lose out on the reciprocity effect.

People with low self-esteem also tend to view other people through the same dark lens they use on themselves, focusing on the negatives of whomever they’re with.

So... In my personal experience, anyone who feels the need to point out what a "nice guy" he is... probably isn't.

[jimbojimbo]

good answer, it the nail on the head.

[Asker]

I've known a few bad boys, and they have tons of confidence, and tons of girls. The ones I knew, all cheated on their girlfriends. They'd also treat them like shit... like canceling at the last minute, because something better came along. And when their girlfriends needed help.. like to paint their apartment or something... the bad boys would just laugh. Why should they help paint? Painting sucks shit. What's in it for them? They don't need to score points, because points are not required of them. I just think it's fascinating the price women are willing to pay for have that confident guy.

[DinaM]

I think it's fascinating how the "nice guys" are so ready to pain any confident person as a "bad guy" and point out how terribly they treat girls.

[Asker]

I think it's fascinating how people change the terminology, to suit their needs. If being a bad boy, was just about confidence, then why the term, bad boy? Why not just, confident guy?
I told my friend before I wrote the question, that this would happen. Being a bad boy, is more than just being confident.

[jimbojimbo]

Sorry QA you need to the victim mentality attitude, feeling sorry for yourself attitude, because you are not getting the girls, because this nice guy or asshole mentality. Either mentality won't get you the right women you want in your life There all kinds of women walking this earth, go and find the women you want, and wants you for who you are. When you get into relationships, you are going to get hurt, there are plenty of nice and lovely girls who get hurt by assholes as well. Its not just men who get treated like shit, women have the same problem as you.
Just be yourself, its that fucking simple. Stop this attitude, cause won't get any women full stop. I can tell you now, your attitude, is putting women off. Change your attitude, then you might get somewhere. If you want to have a success in life, start by changing your attitude.

[jimbojimbo]

Sorry meant you need to stop the victim mentality attitude. Everyone is getting bored of it, including the nice girls out there.

[DinaM]

Teenage dreams, more or less. The idea that you're special; this boy is a rebel and a bit of a hooligan, but YOU are the one who can tame him, he would never do anything to YOU, YOU are the one who can get through to him and show him true love. It's part pity, part ego-trip... and usually it's found only in girls who are young and/or stupid.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that some people take this and insist to turn it into a rule about how only assholes get girls.

[Asker]

It's somewhat of a phenomenon, but many girls do like assholes. Guys in prison have a lot of girls after them. And sure the hell isn't because the girls love their confidence. Guys in prison have "prison girlfriends." They talk on the phone, write letters back and forth, and the girls put money on their books for them. Then when the prisoner is released, he dumps the prison girlfriend, and finds someone else. When he goes back to prison... he calls up the girl that he dumped, and she does the same thing again. That's more than just about confidence.
Some women must like being beat up by their guy, because when they break up, they find another guy to beat them. And that bad-ass Harley riding guy who sells drugs and does armed robberies... will always have a hot girl riding bitch on the back of his hog. It's because she likes his confidence.

[jimbojimbo]

Correct DIna. If you want to find true love, just be yourself. Being a nice guy or an asshole just doesn't cut it.
No one is special in this world. If you know what you are worth, then go out and get what you are worth? Stop blaming, blaming is for cowards. Blaming women for not being attracted to you, because they are only going for assholes, is because your not facing up to something in yourself. The saying goes, If there is no enemy within, the enemy outside can do us no harm? Start with yourself first, and every thing else in life will change. women or life won't change for you.
Whenever you are unhappy in life about something? you should always ask yourself, what is it my life am I am not facing? and be honest with yourself.

[DinaM]

The thing is... no, that's not how it is at all. You're just taking single instances, and classic media representations of the "rebel with all the girls", and trying to turn them into a rule.

As for the "girlfriends of prison inmates"... you're kind of not seeing the real story here. The way you phrase it, you'd think a majority of women were drooling over prison inmates, but it's astill a fairly small number, comparatively speaking. From what I've been able to gather, a fair few of the female correspondents are lonely women who often have body-image concerns (a lot of them are overweight) and feel perhaps that a prisoner is likely to be less judgmental and more appreciative of any support... emotional and/or financial. A number of them also think a man in prison is less likely to cheat on them... often it's just about compassion, feeling sorry for the man in prison and wanting to provide comfort.

It literally has nothing to do with "wanting a bad boy."

[Asker]

I'm not trying to turn anything into a rule. I'm just asking a question. And I worked in a prison work release, and I've seen these prison girlfriends. And I never once saw a fat one. They may have issues, but it's not about their appearance. Some of them have great bodies, and are gorgeous. You'd be surprised how high of stands felons have.
But this same thing's happening on the outside. Maybe all of those women who go for the confident assholes... just have self-esteem issues. I don't know, but it's sure interesting to see how much a woman will allow herself to be shit on, in order to be happy.

[DinaM]

Thing is, you ARE trying to turn it into a rule. You say "women do this" or "many women go for that" and you refer to how fascinating it is how much "a woman" will let herself be shit on. That's trying to turn it into a rule.

With all these posts, you just come across as someone who has very low opinions of women in general. I've tried to explain some of the reasonings behind why self-prclaimed "nice guys" often don't have much success dating-wise, but you seem determined to cling to the belief that it's just cause women are crazy/stupid people who don't realize that the assholes they drool over will, or do, abuse them.

I don't think there's anything I can say to convince you otherwise, so I suggest we just leave it at that.

[Asker]

I've heard more women talk about liking the bad boys, than men talking about it.
So if I repeat what women are saying, then I'M the one trying to make a rule.
And you're trying to make a rule that it's the self-proclaimed, nice guys, that are the ones saying this. So you're doing the same thing I am. You're claiming that this bad boy phenomena is coming from nice guys, and I'm saying it's mostly coming from the women who admit to liking the bad boys.
More guys should study the moves of the bad boys. I notice that they don't buy girls drinks. They let the nice guys do that. But at the end of the night... the bad boy still has his money, and the drunk girl he's going to bang. lol

[DinaM]

Yeah. Like I said. You've made up your mind to have a low opinion of women. Nothing I can say or do to change that. So, not really interested in listening to any more of this.

[Asker]

I don't have a low opinion of women. I know that women like confidence and guys who're smooth talkers. Everyone knows this. I'm trying to explore the bad boy phenomena, which you claim is just some media fantasy. So you've already made up your mind that it doesn't exist, so there really is no point out to you that you might be wrong.
I'd be willing to admit that a lot of it's driven by angry nice guys, but some is driven by women, too.

[DinaM]

Clearly we have had very different life experiences, and associate with very different people. That's the last I'll say on the subject.

[Asker]

Clearly, because you said those prison girlfriends were fat, without really knowing anything about it. And you've see it from the girls side. I've seen it from the guys side, and we talk. I know players that can charm a girls pants off, and get them in the sack the same day. And when he doesn't call the next day like he promised... the dumb girl goes and GAG and asks why ALL guys are assholes.

[Mercury1]

And there's another thing about "bad boys"; they are the ones that are tough, brave, and bold enough to even be immediately taken out by a SWAT team on sight for asking a woman if she'd like to go out for dinner. As in, he'll sacrifice himself to death, even death on a cross, to ask a woman out. He'll go even to North Korea's Camp 22 with boldness for asking a woman out. And American women not only love bad guys, they're even going for prison inmates! Like to them, only worthless total losers are scared of prison, and any man who doesn't have a prison record needs to be publicly executed. To American women, prison is even a mandatory requirement to get a date with them. And not just any prison; they want guys from the big hard prisons like Pelican Bay, Sing-Sing, H-unit, Angola, ADX Florence, like it better be on the list of the Top Ten Most Notorious Prisons in America.

[Mercury1]

In America, it is very true that nice guys finish dead last. American women themselves are toxic, hateful, selfish, proud, fake, inauthentic, and spoiled rotten with a very bad attitude. American women even use profanity more than men! Even many American women themselves are in violent gangs, and they abuse illegal drugs. And that is why nice guys finish last in America's toxic dating scene. Friendly and down to Earth personalities turn American women off sexually.

American women themselves are aroused by violence, crime, illegal drugs, and yes, even terrorism! Their very hearts are pulsing heavily and overflowing with nothing but evil. So they go for guys that are toxic, violent, posessive, controlling, guys that would bodyslam another guy to the ground or even shoot another guy for approaching within less than 55 feet of her and him. Many guys I am sure have approached a dating or married couple before at a concert or festival, only to not only see the guy say "Back off!" and "Go away!" but also to see the woman bury her face into her boyfriend's shoulder, and you can literally see that her expression is; "Help me! Save me from that creep!" and using him as a "human shield."

[jimbojimbo]

There is nothing with being a nice guy. Most guys get hang up on thinking nice guys come last, and don't get the girls. Lets get one thing straight, girls love nice guys, but don't like a guy who is a push over.

Being a push over/nice guy, says to a girl, you can't stand up for yourself, and you won't be able to stand up for her.

[jimbojimbo]

Lets face it, no one respects a push over not even men do. Its fair to say most respect and like nice people, but nice people who can't stand their ground, and not let anyone take advantage of them.

[Asker]

I agree with all of that. But do you think women take advantage of the nice guys?
https://i.imgflip.com/t3j9z.jpg

[jimbojimbo]

Women are like men, they take advantage of anyone, if you let them. You can be nice guy, but just don't let women take advantage of you. Its about sticking to who, you are as a person at the core of yourself, but at the same time you step up to the plate, when you feel people take the piss. Be nice guy, but show people I am not going to let you do this to me.

[jimbojimbo]

I am a nice guy, and very kind person. But if I feel women or a man, is feels they take advantage of me, they are going to hear it from me. i will tell them to f-off. I will be nice to them, but they carry on with the attitude, lets take of advantage of me, I will then turn into an asshole as well. Its a question balance.

[Asker]

Should women be able to have the best worlds? Like when the bad boy doesn't want to drive her to the airport, so she just calls one of the push-overs that she friend zoned.

[Asker]

No... I get that. But what do you think of women who don't want the push-over, but love to use them for favors. I know it's the push-over's fault for allowing it... but do you think very highly of the women who use people like this?

[jimbojimbo]

Well mate, if you have the attitude of i am not going to anything for women, then you are pretty much finished. cause one day, you might meet a great girl, and you treat like shit. Then you have lost a great women.
If you friends with a girl and she wants you take to her airport, then it must on your terms, and then she must give you petrol money, but the same goes if she is your girlfriend. What you don't do, is take her to the airport when you are working that day, or busy with something else, and she tells you to do it, and doesn't care about your feelings. Then that's your own fault, cause quiet clearly you haven;t got balls, stand up for what you want, as well as she wants. Its about both of you being on the same page.

[jimbojimbo]

If she wants you to take her to the airport, and you can't do it, then tell her NO. But if you can do it, then you say to her, I want petrol money please. That's being a nice guy, but not a push over. Don't be the guy, where she shouts jump off the cliff, you jump.

[jimbojimbo]

Well if she asks you favours, you ask her for favours. If she doesn't want to those favours for you. then its time for you to move on buddy. Tell her F-off, its about give and take in any relationship. Just be the push over where you do everything for her. But don't be the asshole where you don't nothing for her either. Its you scratch my back, i will scratch your back, with girls.

[Asker]

"Women are like men, they take advantage of anyone, if you let them"

Some people do that, and they're assholes. I'm not an asshole.

"Well mate, if you have the attitude of i am not going to anything for women, then you are pretty much finished. "

I never said that.

"you might meet a great girl, and you treat like shit. Then you have lost a great women. "

I never treat women like shit, until they give me reason to.

"If you friends with a girl and she wants you take to her airport, then it must on your terms, "

Yes, and my terms are that I completely agree with her boyfriend. Driving people to the airport, sucks. So I'm going to stay home and play video games, just like your boyfriend.

[Asker]

"Don't be the guy, where she shouts jump off the cliff, you jump."

That's hardly the type of guy I am.

My question was to get to the bottom of this way of thinking. So if a woman needs to chose, she chose the dominant guy that's an asshole, over the nice guy that's a push-over. Interesting.

I've told a lot of guys on this site that complain about this topic: "If you know that they prefer the bad boys... they aren't you one? "

And I wouldn't find any fault in a nice guy, breaking bad, and treating women like shit, so they will be attracted to them. You chose to be a nice guy who doesn't get pushed around... but that was your choice. Apparently, either method works.

[jimbojimbo]

The women that attracted to assholes, have issues with themselves anyway, they have low self-esteem, and don't think they deserve to be treated right. And most probably those are assholes themselves anyway.
If your an asshole you attract assholes, if your a nice person, you attract nice people. If you want to attract a certain type of women, then start with yourself first. Don't try and change women, that won't work. I attract a lot of women, and that's not boasting, because I stay true to myself, but I am not asshole. What i do with women, is I let them know were they stand with me. If they are a asshole to me, I will be a asshole back, if they are nice to me, I am nice back.

[jimbojimbo]

Its about treating women the same way, as they treat you. Be nice to them if they are nice to you, if they are being assholes to you, you tell them to Fuckoff. Its about knowing which girls to keep, and which girls to chin. If she is an asshole, then chin the bitch, I don't mean hit her. fuck her off out of your life.

[Asker]

I can attract girls also, but sometimes I'm too nice. I had a girl that I used to work with, contact me a year later. It was a pleasant surprise, until I found out that she just needed my help. We used to text daily, but then she fizzled out. So a year later when she needs someone to fix her computer... then she texts me. I was proud of myself for saying, no.

But my advice to the guys on here that are just trying to get laid... become and asshole, and attract some hot assholes. But make sure to treat them like shit so they keep coming back for more.

[FellowTraveler]

@Asker - MOST DEFINITELY, all the while touting that 'acts of service' and 'gifts' are the spice of life. Little did the poor putz (me) know that she NEVER had any intention of dating me whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Of course it's true. Nice guys make great friends, but that's about it.

[Asker]

Why not have a nice guy for a boyfriend?

[Opinion Owner]

They're too boring and predictable.

[Mercury1]

@Asker Because American women themselves are toxic, hateful, and spoiled rotten with a bad attitude. American womens' hearts themselves are overflowing with a lust for violence, including even terrorism. American women may not look violent, but it's all a facade; American women are violent terrorists and murderers in their own hearts. That is why they go for bad boys, thugs, killers, gang bangers, and even terrorists.

[AM-205]

This is true in my eyes... I'm a sweetie... Where's my Girl?

[Asker]

78.media.tumblr.com/.../...jC4HN1xuy63mo1_1280.png
Apparently they don't like sweeties.

[Anonymous]

Why bother with women? They’re all damaged, it’s in their genetics to be awful and to seek out only a very small percentage of the male population

[Asker]

And dating sites are the worst. Girls who are 5's, are looking for guys who are 9's or 10's.

[Hapinus]

@ThePundertaker usually finishes after me

[Asker]

That's what nice guys do.

[Hapinus]

he is super nice :)

[ThePundertaker]

I’m nice

[NovissimumVirorum]

🤢🤢🤮

[jasco]

no not always i am nice and i dont finish last

[name_is_eric]

They don't even get it in. Rightfully so.

[CT_CD]

It's true