Alpha or not, women risk getting traded for younger women regardless. There are plenty of women who chased, dated, and mated with betas only to be tossed next to the recycling bin as soon he gets more money or start looking a little bit cuter then he use to be then he wants to upgrade to the 9/10's that he knew he couldn't get before.
But anyway, I'm tired of men thinking they don't have any advantages/powers in the dating world. Yes, us women hold the power of sex and birthing kids, but men hold the power of relationships. If a man doesn't want to settle down with us or get married, he holds that power cause us women want that but we can't force you to give us that. We really can't force y'all to marry us, we might poke and bitch at you about it but not going to do anything... it's automatically not going to make men want to give us a ring and call us wifey. Also y'all can get away with a lot shit in dating world- you can get away with multiple sex partners, you can get away with being a bum dad or baby daddy, you can get away with your dating preferences. Yes us women might call you out on the hypocrisy, but for the most part you have other men either backing you up or not saying a thing.
Look at all the words and slang we have to describe a promiscuous woman: Slut, thot, whore, harlot, jump off, cum dumpster, etc. Yes we now apply those to men today but originally they are made to describe a woman. How man words or made up slang are their to describe a promiscuous man? Not many besides player or fuck boy. Why cause men can get away with this.
Who's being called a gold digger for wanting a financially stable Partner? Not men Who's being called "stuck up", " your expectation are too high" when they reject someone? Not men Who's being told there ran through, can't emotional connect, and can't "turn a hoe to wife" due to her past and the number of partners? Not men. Who's being told "that's your fault" and "you should of choose better" or "close your legs"? Not men. Who's being called a leech or evil for forcing someone to pay child support for the very kid they helped created but simple don't want to? Not men.
So as far as I'm concerned, men and women both have their advantages and disadvantages. They both hold and have certain powers when it comes to dating.
I see the majority of men and women have both voted for men, I think that's incorrect, it's both. (please note I'm about to say something you may not like)
Women have more choice, if you're young and pretty, you're always going to be in demand, you can take your pick, a lot of guys are going to like you.
But due to society's standards, the pool of men considered to be top top top is considerably smaller than the pool of women. I think this is because to be a girl in high demand, you need a pretty face, to be intelligent and in shape, not too hard. But to be one of the top top males, it's much harder than that. But the men that are there have equally high standards for a partner.
I'm not sure if I'm making much sense to be honest, essentially what I'm trying to say is that women may have more choice, but men are in control of it. So I think it's pretty fair to both sides.
I've seen plenty of men and women on here complaining about the other sex having standards too high. But if we assume that there are x amount of people single, and 95% of those people actually want to date, your only limitation to your singleness is your standards. And it's in your right to have standards, don't limit yourself, there's nothing wrong with high standards. Date the person YOU want.
Stefan "I'm an empiricist" Molyneux rarely has anything to say that can't be dismantled or debunked. Much of what he says are half truths. This theory he has presented on Twitter about hookup culture contradicts the same argument he and others have made about the men who deserve the women get the women. If you want a woman then you have to be a "real" man. If you want a woman stop complaining about it and do something about it. That's what makes an alpha. What he's saying here is that only a small percentage of biologically privileged males get the women without looking into other factors. He's also suggesting that this is a bad thing and that women need to get with not so "alpha" men to be more fair.. this doesn't make much sense as he is a big supporter of "naturally" occuring hierarchies.
Now I mostly agree with what he claims. But I'm also pointing out that this claim contradicts claims he himself has made in the past. But yes, aside from women devaluing themselves on purpose they place themselves and men in a constant state of sexual breeding preferences rather than emotional and resource security and stability.
Women's big advantage is they will get asked out off the street while men won't. Guys can get asked out though but from my experience, it usually takes being in that girl's social circle somehow or being at a place where it's socially acceptable to hit on a person like a club or bar. Plenty of my exes I've been the ones that have initiated with me.
Then when it comes to sex obviously that's easier for women because men are the ultimate sluts, but on the contrary men are less likely to be serious about wanting a relationship with him and are more likely to cheat on a woman in the relationship. So it really depends on what your criteria of easier is.
It's easier for women to get asked out but I think it's easier for a guy to get in a good relationship overall if the guy knows how to talk to women he doesn't know. Women are more likely to want commitment and they are less likely to cheat. So don't really believe there's a winner. It depends on the things you care more about. Remember that women are often used for sex and even raped.
Women start with the advantage. A women's sexual market value (SMV) is driven by beauty and fertility. This is when she is in her prime. For women this is 18-late 20's. This is when she'll be presented with the largest number of dating options and be desired by most men.
At this age women hold all the advantages. This is also the age a women should find her spouse because her SMV will never be higher.
As women age their SMV declines, begining in 30's and rapidly declines once she can no longer have children.
Men are the inverse. Men's SMV is driven by social-economic status. When a guy just graduated college and is starting out, his income is low and he has equally low social status.
Men's peak earnings career status are late 30's-40's. That's when a man's SMV is the highest and he holds the advantage in the dating market.
This dynamic is also why you see high SMV males dating younger high SMV females. The two SMVs match but because women and men peak at different ages, men date younger women and women will date older men.
What do you mean by "advantages"? If you are asking for whom it is easier to attract the opposite sex, then the answer is undoubtedly women. While not every woman can attract every single man, an average woman does not need to do basically any work to attract multiple candidates, and then she can just select the ones she likes the most. A man, no matter how handsome he is, will struggle to attract the same number of female candidates as we need a lot of other more important weapons, such as specific sets of skills, traits and characteristics.
A very beautiful woman can command millions of men if she wanted to do and most men will eagerly do what she wants (up until a certain moment). A very handsome man will not be able to achieve anything even remotely close to that.
Women have the advantage, because they have to put forth very little effort.
Men have the advantage, because they almost never find themselves in the awkward position of having to reject someone.
I have a dear friend who is a PUA. He's the one that told me that he loves the dating system, just the way it is. He has a heart of gold, and he just can't bring himself to reject women he's not interested in. So, for him, it's worth it to have to put out so much energy in the dating world.
That's a laugh. I've been subject to both. Getting rejected is a lot worse than having to reject someone. Both are very awkward, but at least one doesn't make you feel like a worthless person
Hmm I really want to say women because all they do is sit there and try to look pretty. I've never seen a woman make any move or even show interest. It's always the guy that gets things rolling.
However this can also be a disadvantage to women because then they can only pick from the guys that approach her. If she knows there's a guy she likes, but he never approaches well guess she needs to settle.
That's another thing not every guy is going to approach a girl he likes. I think women don't get that.
Girls/women hands down. Men have to approach and initiate convo and be courteous, caring and etc. Even in the animal world or with insects, I have watched documentaries where male spiders have to prove they're worth to a female spider. I know girls who have told me there are guys who have sent them flowers and countless DM's to get her attention so potentially a girl who's even 5 out 10 in looks will still get messages from different guys depending on how active a girl's social media account and how she presents herself. I understand girls/women may read this and dislike it my post but this is just my opinion.
Women are the ones being chased so they get to choose their mate, (this is not true everywhere but in most places is); feminism divided the female population, those who hate men, because someone said they suck an there oppression, and those who agree that there are some inequities on both sides, the former ones have a harder time in the dating scene because 1. They are not looking 2. Their POV makes it hard for men to approach them or even want to. This sounds like it contradicts the first point (women are the ones who pick) but not everyone is attractive to everybody, either the physique is unappealing for some or the personality just doesn't click.
You are telling it like it is. I wouldn't say women chase Alphas until they are in their 30's because by then they have lost their bloom, they are way past their prime, and the Alphas won't fuck them. But, we only differ by a couple of years, because I think it is age 28. Regardless, they are still way past their prime and the very nice Beta males that wanted to marry at age 20 don't want some old hide near age 30.
So remembering all the nice Beta males they at age 20, they look around and ask, "Where have good men gone?" The men are there, but they lost their bloom. The men that wanted them when they were pretty, sexy, fresh, and juicy young things, are seeking younger women.
It depends on what you want and if you know how to get it without the hassle. For example, if a woman wants a committed relationship, she’s not going to waste time on guys who are just trying to get laid. That means she’ll have to avoid tinder and meeting guys at bars and clubs.
Definitely women, the guy has to deal with gathering the courage to start the conversation, has to make the first move, drive the conversation, and be the one to push things along until a relationship has totally formed, all girls have to do, is look nice if they want the better guys, otherwise just wait, then say yes when a guy does try to pick them up, that's it, job complete.
Men have it better because they get to make more decisions as far as the relationship. They get to choose who to ask out, when to progress to being official, and when to propose for marriage. Also, men have higher sex drive so women have to deal with wandering eyes (and other body parts) more, which is stressful.
Obviously women. Even women who are seen as ugly still get hit on and those women just have to say yes. I've even seen attractive men like turned down by a flock load of women due to their personality. But if a women has a bad personality, as long as she looks good to the guy, the guy wouldn't give a shit
Women have more choices. Men in real life and online have much fewer matches than women. You could put all the same gender-neutral things in your profile description and look similar (like Christ Hayes and Rachel Maddow look alike) and the girl would still get more offers in dating.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
I did an experiment once. I was messaging guys first on a dating site. I was getting very few replies even though I went beyond Hi! how are you?
Then I was doing nothing and got many many messages.
So who has the advantage? One who seems like he or she doesn’t care.
Yeah something like that. Are the guys that message you the same type that you messaged first. I message the ones I find attractive, but the ones that message me look like serial killers
@R_Cakes91 omg yes!! It’s exactly like that. Plus the guys I messaged are the type I used to date so it’s not like I’m going for someone out of my league.
The guys I message first look like lumberjack mountain men. I’m a park ranger and a mountain woman but they never respond. I have a feeling that a lot of those guys want a girly girl and they don’t actually do all the mountain men activities they say they do.
@R_Cakes91 I think you’re right. I think they’re all fake lol! I also think one a girl messages them they get cocky and super picky. Needless to say I’m not ever texting first.
So you do not want ugly guys texting and you have no problems rejecting them. But you are not happy when you text a cute guy first and he doesn't show interest? Even if you think you are talking with guys within your league they might not see it that way. Believe me you looking desperate for texting first is not why they don't show interest.
Don't get me wrong you have every right to turn down guys that you are not attracted to. But don't think that the guys that don't give you the time of day do it for any different reason than "Not really that good looking"
It sounds to me like you are using something like Tinder. Men have the same issues except neither option is more effective and it’s more a game of chance. While men would typically rather have women text first just so that he has a better bearing on how interested you are, it is extremely rare. So rare, in fact, that the only matches in most cases that text first are spam bots who try to bait them for their credit card. Men try to text first anyway because they have been told that they need to because the woman would never answer first.
I don’t message a guy first because I’m desperate. I message a guy first usually because we have a lot in common and he seems like someone I’d actually like to meet in person. I won’t meet just any rando. You kidding me? Heard o’ date rape?
@R_Cakes91 I don’t think anyone was making the desperation argument, in fact I think the very notion is stupid. I have actually heard of this argument on the reverse side too and it is just as awful.
@ThisIsMyOpinion so what you’re saying is that I should forget that I used to date athletic guys I used to date because I’m also athletic and we have a lot in common and instead should switch to couch potatoes because that’s somhow is my league too?
@R_Cakes91 apparently guys don’t care about having things in common. They just look at your picture and say Nah!! We shouldn’t even try to send any messages of a substance. Just half naked pics with million filters will do.
Yeah, I mean I never said anything about rejecting ugly guys, but I did mention them having a rapey vibe.
I mean if it’s ok, I’d rather not respond to those and message men who seem mentally sound, have a job, don’t live in their parents basement, and take a shower at least 3 times a week.
@R_Cakes91 I never said that you texted first because you were desperate. I said that no guy will ever turn you down just because you texted first. I also said you have every right to turn down any guy that texts you. I am not saying that you should say yes to every guy, of course not.
@Anonymous no, of course not. You have every right to go for what you want and turn down what you don't want. I simply said that the guys you text first also have that right.
it's not that we see you as desperate, but when I usually got messages first, it was always a bot trying to get me into a nudie pay chat room. Most of the profiles that messaged were fakes.
I just meant that the guys I text first who don’t message back makes NO sense to me. Like, we have everything in common, like the same music, are into the same outdoor activities. I don’t get upset or angry when they don’t text back, just confused. I also rarely get messaged by a guy who is similar to me. It’s usually a dude who hasn’t left his house in a while and is looking for a woman to “show him the world.” Which... there’s nothing wrong with that. I just don’t get the disconnect between myself and the opposite sex that seemingly has the same interests as me, ya know?
I’m not saying that they have to message me back, I just think a lot of dudes find me intimidating. I’m a back country ranger at a national park and have all these amazing stories to tell. Maybe those “mountain men” don’t want to be outshined?
@R_Cakes91 That doesn't makes sense to you. Just because you have a lot in common with someone doesn't mean that things will happen. I practise muay thai, I like video games and I am a civil engineer. My fiancee never had a fight practice in her life, doesn't like video games and works in finances. We have almost nothing in common besides loving each other. And we both like TV series a lot xD Anyway if they don't text back it's because they are looking for something else, not because they are intimidated. I get that it can get frustrating, but that's the way things work. You will find your guy.
Men are still expected to chase the women, yet fear getting a false sexual harassment charge just because a woman may not like them. All women really have to do is look pretty and smile and make a man feel welcome.
@ThisIsMyOpinion no the woman doesn't have to be hot but don't expect the guy to want anything more than something casual. I guess they often think a guy wanting to sleep with them means he wants to marry her.
I do think men have the upper hand just because they are more traditionally used to having dominance and power over the woman, hoverer if at the beginning of a relationship it is made clear that they are both equal, then it could change that !
@Daviid_ I kind of disagree. I think in any natural world without society men would be much more in control, all based on physical superiority in terms of strength. We can see this when looking at societies pasts where men were almost entirely in control. It took modern ethics to rationalize giving women rights. Naturally though, men would not give women that power. It took a lot of critical thinking to figure out that it's fair.
It used to be that women had the advantage hands-DOWN but 3rd wave feminism has made a lot of men of quality avoid mediocre women and become more choosy - leaving the scumbags and creeps to flirt with women on the street.
Well from my experience women have always been the ones bringing up the "what are we" talk. If anything I feel like I've had that control. You must mean at the very beginning which I agree with. Everything changes though once we talkin about commitment.
I don’t know. I think dating probably stinks either way. It’s probably a case by case basis.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
The answer depends on age. Molyneux pretty much sums it up. Except for the small percentage of really attractive males, women hold all the cards in the dating game in their teens and twenties, but the tables turn around age 30 and then single men have the advantage for sure.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
It's never been difficult for me to get dates, only to find someone I actually like in return. Can only judged based on that, so women.
Actually that's hard stuff! ... Also, what if you were a woman dumb enough to pick an asshole that always likes the new models! Looks can't save you there! Looks fade. Maybe if you have a child (or two) with said ass hole, then maybe MAYBE he'll stick around, and give you money for your hair appointment but if not, it's bye bye for you and you're out in the streets to look for a low wage job with your non college (or even high school drop out) self!
Time to spend money (that you don't have?) on face lifts, butt lifts, hair extensions to attract that older fella with money as well! BUT then you look at the clock and you're pushing 38 having a birthday next month. You then try to settle for your supervisor at Walmart if he'll even have you even though he still lives with his mom (aka his "roommate") and plays video games all day!
@SueAnon84 I do have money, and I work very hard for it, if that's what you're suggesting. If you want to go around spending money you don't have, that's your own fault. Even ugly women still have guys approach them while average guys are left alone as there's always a better guy around.
1. You're just generalizing about that stuff (I did agree that women had the upper hand by the way). 2. No I wasn't referring to me, I was just illustrating an example of a woman that can also make mistakes in her younger, "prettier" years. No body is perfect.. unfortunately lol! :)
Its widely know that women usually have it easier to get dates/sex
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
That's not even the definition for feminism , the term is abused here. I really wish they see the term as 'women getting equal opportunities to jobs and contribute equally as men in the society' instead of 'I fuck around till I want to settle down' , this dude is sexist and bitter anyway in the terms that he said ' it benefits alpha males and women lose their value when they get older so they have to settle down?' Like , women's appearance and ability to give birth is the only value.
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3 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Well I think it pretty obvious the definition of feminism has altered since the 1920s those feminists marches are full on anti male but I don’t really care about feminism I just wanted to see who people thought had the advantage dating so please vote if you can thank you
I think in general women have advantage before marriage : more choice , easier to be accepted , etc but men have advantage after marriage : no need to go through severe physical mental change when have kids , can mostly like keep working without being affected
Well I've always had women hit on me if I hang out in social groups so that's not totally true. I agree a guy isn't going to be hit on if he's walking around Walmart or something lol while that can happen to women.
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