Men, would you respect it if your partner felt motherhood is a choice, not an obligation?

[anon1903]

This.

This is kinda extreme post. Don't get get triggered. I just believe it's mostly true. At least I feel sometimes people do this is to me (and I'm only 21, imagine what'd become of older women, tch tch indian culture).

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[MrPickles13]

I agree I and it doesn't just happen with women I've said I don't want kids and people keep saying that I will change my mind. I won't I just don't want them.

And I think it's more unfair for women I know one who wants to have the surgerocal option and they said it's been difficult to get it as peopel just kinda dismiss them due to being young.

If people say they don't want kids just accept it don't try to convince otherwise or say that will change. Because it's just not anyone's place to do so.

[anon1903]

Exactly!!

[MrPickles13]

It's dumb that everyone thinks that you need to have kids or there is something wrong with you or crap like that. If you think everyone needs kids or there is a thing wrong with them. Well the person who has issues is the one making the bs judgement

[anon1903]

This is my ideal opinion.

[MrPickles13]

Thank you, sorry for ranting on its a sore topic for me as well. And also better to not want and not have kids then have them and not want them

[anon1903]

I loved your rant.

[MrPickles13]

Thank you for MHG I am glad to have been some help.

[Paul09]

Your life, your body, your choice. I respect that. Who ever says other wise (usually religious people) they do not know what they are you taking about.

[MrOracle]

I absolutely believe that it is your choice. However, I also think that many people don't realize the long-term implications of that choice.

You will get old, and you will become unable to work, and if you live long enough, or are unfortunate, you may need long-term care to survive. Traditionally, most people have gotten help from their adult children. Many will take care of an older parent, and protect them, especially if they start getting dimentia.

If you have no children, then you are going to need to have a hefty amount of savings and investments to survive your final years with dignity, because you will almost certainly have to pay for the long term care that you will need out of your own pocket. And, in the US, if you were retiring today at 65, and you lived to 85, the average person would need to have about $2M saved up, which is only $100,000 a year for those 20 years.

$2M is not going to be anywhere near enough for you - by the time you retire, you will likely need $5-8M.

There's also the reality of just being alone, with no family, for decades, to consider.

I still believe that it is your choice, but you need to consider the whole reality of the situation before you decide. And this is a decision that you have to commit to, one way or another, by your mid-to-late 20s at the latest, or it will be no longer even be a choice.

[OlderAndWiser]

Having a family is a topic that should be discussed while dating. If he wants children and she does not, or vice versa, then they should each find a more compatible partner.

[AaronStudds]

Had you been a student of Sociology, you would not have asked the question. Never mind. Let me explain you.

Say, you are not married. You are not married and you are living with your boyfriend. You could be having a live in relationship. Now, there is a difference between live in relationship and marriage. The major difference between the two is that marriage is more legally and socially acceptable form of union of two people. According to Sociology, two people get married to produce an offspring and shape them in such a way that they are helpful to the society, which means, if you marry, it becomes the duty of a husband and a wife to continue their lineage by having a child and give this society a new life for its welfare. This rule does not apply in live in relationship, though it is legal and their baby will be considered as a legitimate child in the eyes of the law.

Now your question is that what if a wife says to her husband that its her wish to have kids or not to have them, how should a husband react? Here, the husband must respect the decision of his wife and wait till she is not physically, mentally and emotionally ready to bring a new life into this world. What if she says that she may be married to him, but, she would never carry a child? Such a situation can totally be avoided by a short conversation prior to marriage.

No one will say no to having kids after marriage, since every "mature" person understands that marriage is a socially and legally acceptable union of two people to bring their legitimate child in this world for the continuation of their blood line and for the welfare of this society.

[anon1903]

I don't want marriage either so I'm good, man.

[DJB72]

When I was about 20 I chose not to ask a girl out because she didn't want to have children.

I respected it was her choice, but I couldn't imagine a life without children. I was 46 before my son was born but I don't regret it. I told the girl I knew it was a pity because I genuinely thought she'd be an amazing mother.

We lost touch after she got into a relationship with a guy she described as being "just like" me. Apparently I'm a deliberately abusive pig. It's possible she may have misjudged him.

After we lost touch she met another guy and married him. He became abusive when she got pregnant with his child.

We reconnected about 5 years ago, 15 years after we'd lost touch. She's every bit the incredible mum I knew she'd be.

People change. Situations change us.

If my wife hadn't wanted children I wouldn't have asked her to marry me.

A couple of years ago I met a truly beautiful young woman aged 20 who is absolutely certain she doesn't want children. Like every girl I've met that age she's completely sure she'll never change her mind.

Like every girl I've met that age, she can't grasp the concept of life experiences changing your mind.

I'd respect her choice, yes. But I'd leave.

[bodiesands]

Yeah, but you will change your mind. The hormonal drive will come over you, like a hunger, which nothing else will satisfy. You may get a dog for a while to fill the void, but it will not be enough. It's happened to every girl I've been with (from 16 to mid-20s), and the best (and only) way I managed to deal with it was through humour.

The real problem here is what they call in Philosophy the 'mind-body problem' - which comes from our seeing ourselves and others as minds/souls instead of biological bodies. In some ways this is necessary - to stop us enslaving people, and to allow us to believe in free will and hence social responsibility.

But in other ways it's silly - and makes us despair when we use porn, or eat cake, or get stressed/depressed/angry, despite not wanting ourselves to. The only conclusion is to take account of our mixed nature - both soul and body, both consciousness and biology, both free will and determinism - and forgive it in others and ourselves.

We have choice - within the limits of biology and reality - and we can override almost any drive if we really try (thank goodness, or we'd be punching people who annoy us in the street). But will we want to? Would most choose to live in a monastery, away from warmth and good food and family? They could, but they probably won't.

Similarly, will you choose to not have kids, even when the chance and drive arises? You could. But you probably won't. That's what your relatives have been trying to tell you. And although our current culture might find this offensive (perhaps understandably, in the drive towards further equality - i. e. our wanting ourselves to be seen ever more as dissociated 'minds', and not treated according to our anatomy), that doesn't necessarily mean it's not true.

[anon1903]

No, I just want sex. Not a fan of responsibilities.

[bodiesands]

Haha yeah, but you will change your mind

[anon1903]

No I won't.

[bodiesands]

And the reason they are trying to warn you of this in advance is because they love you.

Specifically, because they're trying to warn you not to set your life up in such a way as will prevent kids if you do later discover you want them.

"Well there's always time." You might say. "I can leave that for 30-year old me to decide." But the reason they're warning you now, is that like it or not, you will never again be as young and beautiful as you are right now.

And object to those things being valued if you want (along the lines of the mind-body problem - 'it shouldn't matter, they should take me as I am, etc).

But they do matter, and they do make you more desirable, and if you ask anyone already 30 they'll tell you that in no uncertain terms. So starting the search for the best possible partner at that age, is a whole lot harder than starting now.

[anon1903]

Nope. I've had enough of shit w people. Now the most I'd do is date. That's all.

[bodiesands]

I mean yeah, me too, for now. In fact, I'm not dating at all for now, there's trauma stuff I'm trying to sort out in myself first - the root, I think, of all relationship trouble. Until I do, I will attract and be attracted to the wrong kind of person (I. e. someone also traumatised), and it will be a shitshow (as has happened before). But I know now what to avoid, and know 50% of it was me, so am doing what I need to to sort myself out. Patience is definitely worthwhile - especially if you use the time well.

[anon1903]

Good luck with dating. May you find the one.

[bodiesands]

Cheers. Someone will have to break the trauma cycle at some point, or it'll just keep getting passed down. Sp it might as well be me who does so.

[anon1903]

You should do therapy, that way you'd be able to see your life path more clearly.

A little bit of unwanted advice here but really, therapy does work.

[bodiesands]

I do, twice a week. One normal talk therapy, one craniosacral therapy. Yes, it is very helpful, I should have done it (consistently) years ago.

Various books have helped, like The Body Keeps The Score (which almost everyone I happen to talk to about trauma has heard of and benefited from).

But really the sessions make it real in a way I never could by myself. Even after reading, I tend to just think and think, and stay stuck in my head. As they say, you need to feel to heal - and to anyone like me, that is the last thing you want to do haha, so I need those sessions to help/force me to do so.

[224466881010]

Yeah there's nothing wrong with abstaining from motherhood in my opinion. It's your choice.

It's also foolish to bank on changing someone's mind about it.

I think modern women tend to underestimate their own biological clocks and how hard it might be to resist them, as well as life meaning derived from family in older life. After all, most older adults are obsessed with their families. As a young person I look at that and say "yeesh, maybe they should chill out a bit on that" but it's so ubiquitous that I feel there's a good chance those hormones will hit whether you like it or not.

But if motherhood isn't for you, don't sweat it!

[Shizunk]

It is a choice for sure. But a woman who doesn't want to be a mother will not be my partner. I will ask directly before I make things official. If she ever changes her mind later, she will promptly become someone elses partner.
Telling young women they will change and start to want children is imho futile and I get how it can be annoying. Statistically it is true. All of my classmates who insisted they will never have kids are now married and have kids. There will be exceptions, obviously. But the trend is pretty clear.

[Deathraider]

Oh, I could only imagine how much worse it would be for woman. I received a ton of sh*t for deciding I won’t have kids. People just say oh it’s the purpose of life and I’ll come around. Now it’d be a whole lot worse with woman considering the gender expectation in society.

My views with parenthood and whether it’s a choice is a bit complicated though.

[anon1903]

Do you mind elaborating?

[anon1903]

And yes, we got the baby factory inside us so people would judge if sex for us would be recreational instead of functional.

[Deathraider]

It is my belief that we shouldn’t have kids, it’s not our choice. Adopting kids is okay, but bringing someone into existence is not. The reason for this stems from the fact that if a person doesn’t exist, they experience no good experience nor any bad experience, but if a person does exist, then it runs the risk for being very bad for their wellbeing. There isn’t an obligation to have kids, and the option of having kids runs the risk of being very terrible for their wellbeing, whereas not having kids runs no risk at all. Essentially, you’re gambling on the wellbeing of someone else without their consent. It would also be impossible for you to take their best interest in mind when making such decisions, and usually such decisions are made because someone wants a kid, without regard about how it could affect this potential person’s wellbeing.

[anon1903]

Respect.

[Jessica405]

My opinion? I spent 7 long, hard years at uni, as did my partner. Neither of us wants to give that up just to be parents. No kids ever. My choice and his choice. We are both happy! Sod anyone slses opinion!

[anon1903]

👍❤️

[Anon621]

In my opinion I think motherhood should be a choice. They are the ones that go through three different trimesters. I understand that unwanted pregnancy is real and that's why I also can understand why some women want to not take on the responsibility of motherhood after giving birth or maybe even aborting the baby if they choose to do so

[NathanDavis]

parenthood should ideally be an informed choice and also a welcomed responsibility... that's ideally, all other situations might vary according to circumstances... so in general, I'm all about respecting people's choices and also their circumstances... it all matters

[BossThe2nd]

I always hope a woman is going to say "I loathe the idea of ever having children".

So I would not only respect that stance, I would simultaneously rejoice lol.

[anon1903]

My man ❤️

[HawkPerception]

I believe that women who believe they don't want children are kidding themselves and falling into this mentality trend trap. Family is love and love is life. It is a biological desire to continue your bloodline. Yes there are benefits to having no kids. You have more financial freedom, nore time, less responsibility, etc. But the love and experiences you have from raising kids far outweighs the benefits to not. Now don't get me wrong. I believe that you should live your life to its fullest before having kids, but it's better to settle when you're done what you want to. It's a more fulfilling life.

[DaveToo]

When a man marries a woman, he expects her to partner with him as they continue his lineage. This is the basis behind royals insisting on a male child, and why Henry the VIII divorced and killed so many wives.
If a woman doesn't want children it should be her decision, but with consultation with her prospective mate before they marry. It is, after all, a large decision.

[jasco]

Well a lot of people think that having kids is a good thing and it brings joy to your family. However they fail to mention everything else that comes with having a family that can’t take care of her/himself. So in short honestly people are gonna do what they want regardless if other people like it or dislike it so why should women care if someone respects them or not? As for me well I am still not sure rather or not I want kids

[EternallyCorrect]

This is probably something many older people say, because they were also once young and retarded, and they changed their minds.

There was a time when I was 100% sure I didn’t want kids, now I have a fourth one on the way. It’s just true that you might change your mind as you get older.

No need to read into it any further than that unless you’re looking to get offended over the tiniest little things.

[VDrago14]

When it comes to having children that is a choice between the couple and nobody else's decision. In the dating stages this is definitely something that would have to come up in order to see if the relationship is worth pursuing further for both ends. Now I understand in different parts of the world the culture is different in these regards but at least here in the states it is something that would have to come up in discussion prior to a relationship blossoming.

[MTC29]

No woman is obligated to give birth. I've dated lots of woman who have had no children. Personally, I'd be terrified at the prospect!

No judgement.

[cmarrott]

No. This whole generation of not wanting kids is insane. It’s literally your whole genetic reason for being alive. Having children is also the best experience of my life. After having them I just wish I had started sooner. I’ve never been happier best experiences in life for sure.

[cmarrott]

Oh and one other thing I’d too many of you don’t have kids it will collapse the economy me then we will all be poor.

[ChiTown33]

Of course it's a choice! I wouldn't want her to approach it any other way. How can she be a good mother if she doesn't even want to be one?
But she has to also understand the guy she's with may want children. And this is usually non-negotiable.
So, (and this goes for both genders) You need to accept that an level with them. You need to break it off if they won't. For both your sakes.