Personally I don't think a man should expect sex on a date, and not a first date anyway. Some women will give it up easy on a first one but I don't think most do.
However, a woman shouldn't be expecting a man to pay for the date or even buy her gifts. And it's ironic to me that you have chicks out there who think this should be the case but think it's wrong for men to want sex out of it.
So what is the difference?
Women go on dates and expect men to pay. Men go on dates and expect sex at the end. Is there a difference?
I've actually never ever had this be an issue for me. I am usually pretty tight with my money, I don't take MYSELF out to dinner that often.
I have had some weird situations like I took my sister, our mutual friend, and this girl I was kind of interested in, out to sushi and the bill was something just shy of $300 with tip. I paid for everyone, but then later this girl Venmos me $30 or something with the note "thanks for dinner". I remembered it because $30 was not enough to even cover the tip, let alone her share of the meal and drinks which we shared "family style". So why did she send it? It felt kind of insulting, but I wasn't sure why. Like she was trying to create distance maybe? Anyway, this girl did a couple other weird things so I stopped hanging out with her. Another one was she offered to come over with some wine, which ended up being 1/4 of an opened bottle that smelled/tasted like it was over 48 hours old/vinegar, if it had even been good to begin with. It put me in an awkward position because I don't like to insult a gift, but it was more like something pulled from a garbage can. I opened my own bottle of good wine to share with her and we poured hers out.
But about dinner and paying for it, whatever. I don't offer to pay unless I want to, and if I want to, it's not because I'm making a deal: "lobster for sex". I only have sex with women who want to have sex with me, and in my experience, if a woman wants to have sex with me, not buying her dinner won't quench her desires. I've never thought of paying for a date as a bargaining chip to get someone to like me. If you don't like me, I'm not going to try to make you like me with gifts. If you do like me, I don't need to buy my way into your heart.
Maybe men are inadvertently trying to prove they have resources and worth with paying for stuff, then they get disappointed if it doesn't make them attractive?
It doesn't hurt to have resources, but being attractive enough to have sex with is so much more than that. She needs to feel something toward you, either safety, excitement, or a mix of both.
So many people just have absolutely no idea what they're doing when it comes to dating.
I do also get there are cultural ideas out there, traditional beliefs and what not. That's cute, but also dangerous. I don't mind doing some "chivalrous" things here and there, but it also sends a red flag if I see some girl I'm just getting to know trying to get her hands in my pants to get a hold of my wallet.
We all have our filters and our paradigm. It can be hard to understand what someone else is trying to get at, receiving the message the way they intend it. Having similar values and perspective helps lessen miscommunication.
They are not the same thing because some guys would still expect sex if she paid for the date or if it was split. Would men let women pay for dates if that women fully expected to be able to peg that guy later because she pd for the date.
Well, I don't think that either is necessarily true anymore, nor should be. But yes, there is a difference.
Mostly these days, I see girls and guys go on dates, and whichever of them asked the other out pays. That's because they're the host of that date, by offering the invitation. Sometimes that's the guy and sometimes it's the girl. If they go out together often enough, it should even out.
There's no reason a guy needs to accept being expected to pay all the time. A girl who does isn't being fair, and he's got every right to tell her it's her turn, or just stop dating her because she's being inconsiderate. It's not okay to expect somebody else to pay all the time, and it's perfectly fine for men to say so.
But there's still a big difference between expecting somebody to spend money and expecting them to open up their body to you. There's a reason we don't allow people to enforce contracts that include a promise of sex: it's because nobody should ever have to do that when they don't want to, even if that puts someone else in an unfair position. There are things we generally recognize that nobody should ever be forced to do if they don't want to, and sex is one of them.
It's fair for a man to expect that a woman shares equally in the expenses of dating. It's not fair for him to expect that while he pays his share in money, she has to pay her share with her body. That's a higher, more intimate, and more dangerous price (physically and psychologically) than paying in money, and that makes it an unfair exchange.
But that doesn't mean he has to put up with her expecting him to pay in money all the time. He shouldn't tolerate that.
Agree on both. If you get sex you lucky if not you not that’s all there is… even I’ve never had issues getting sex eventually once I’ve got a connection. The issue is that connection lol… and telling me your not paying just guaranteed your paying half. I’ll pay half and walk out.
People should just stop expecting things like they're entitled, period.. But why do people always mention men paying on dates but never mention what about when a woman invites a man to a nice intimate dinner she cooked, she bought all the ingredients, food, wine, etc.. Should she ask the man to pay half the bill for that then🤔 No, because she invited him, and offered to cook.. If a man invites a woman for dinner, when he could of offered less expensive options for a first date, why shouldn't he pay? Date doesn't always have to be an expensive dinner... And sex should never be expected nor should anyone feel entitled to someone's body... And to compare the two.. yeah don't get that... Sex can come with way more risks, complications than paying for a meal you suggested.. If sex and who pays is all people can think about when it comes to dates/dating maybe those people should just stop going on dates or dating till they grow tf up🤷🏼♀️
"But why do people always mention men paying on dates but never mention what about when a woman invites a man to a nice intimate dinner she cooked, she bought all the ingredients, food, wine, etc.." - Maybe because women do that a lot less than a man taking her out to dinner.
And how many women would invite unknown man during first few dates to their home, where they are the most vulnerable to potential assault if the unknown man turns out to be an offender VS how often first dates occur in public place, let's say a restaurant? Homemade dinner usually occurs once done level of trust us developed. by the way, this is exactly the reason why social rules dictate that the one who is invited to homemade dinner/lunch brings a bottle of decent wine (+flowers or other token of appreciation) to kind of compensate for the troubles the other person had with preparing food.
Thanks for tip! It is old but gold tip. 🪙 Though how does that relate to the fact that people usually spend first few dates in public places, such as restaurants, due to safety reasons? As opposed to homemade dinner/lunch? Thus supporting hypothesis "homemade dinner" us much less frequent than "going to the restaurant" is the dating phase (since you can't really include the later "couple's" phase since it by that time the couple usually shares equally).
@Brainsbeforebeauty What Mango-man said was part of my point. Although, you don't need to assume such a thing. The vast majority of dates are those where the couple goes to dinner, and more often paid for by the guy than the woman makes at home.
@Brainsbeforebeauty They don't mention it because it's not nearly as common as men taking women on dates, and mos successful people operate on probability not possibility.
@Brainsbeforebeauty Nicely! You did it again, hit the nail on the head in the first sentence. Expectation and judgement are 2 weapons which need to be wielded with care
@Vegasrunner Ummm gee, maybe by dating people in your close social circle instead of strangers off the internet, my first husband, I knew from the age of 15, my second O actually knew since I was 13, so yeah I could invite them for a nice home cooked meal, because I already knew them, it's not rocket science... But if you wanna take strangers out, stop bitching about paying for it lolol
@Brainsbeforebeauty Your advice for getting to know someone is to date only people you know? And who's bitching for taking strangers out the question asked is there a difference between expecting someone to pay and expecting sex.
@Vegasrunner and I believe I answered people should stop expecting period... Are you going to keep harassing/trying to argue with me on every reply I post?
@Brainsbeforebeauty Asking question about your belief is harassing? I do realize we live in a world where some women believe they are not allowed to be questioned on their beliefs so I understand why u would use that type of language instead of engaging in an adult conversation however these questions are in response to your statements and whenever I see something not right I'm always going to question you just seem to struggle/ providing a good answer. I'm actually just testing a theory that I've always held which is to watch how women react when you question their belief you just happen to he the perfect example.
@Vegasrunner as you're using me being a woman to insult, you say you're not insulting.. I have no issue if someone disagrees, my beliefs are mine, yours are yours, that don't make mine wrong... And you're the one that can't hold a civil conversation, not me, but I'm done here🙂👋
Hmmm what? I disagree with people, I don't name call, attack, harass... This user is insulting any female that don't agree, the "women are irrational, blah blah but he's the one jumping on posts, just females that disagree mind you, not men, and not just this post. And if you're meaning my post about women with nude photos, I was never trying to shame, trying to let these young women know there's other ways to appreciate your body, have others appreciate... But see that don't just affect them, cuz there's young users on this site and other sites, impressionable young people that will think that's the only way to get attention... Kids don't always do what they're told, they copy what they see.. And that's hardly the same as two grown adults arguing about who should pay for the date
@Brainsbeforebeauty You're being a bit dishonest no? Could you please share where u were name called, attacked by me? Women like to use these words as a defensive mechanism to avoid having to answer questions on their beliefs. I teach men to simply question those beliefs. Personally I question men and women on this platform however I've realized women typically won't provide an answer when questioned on their beliefs instead they do what you do. I'm actually seeking 1 women who can hold an intelligent conversation and defend her POV (to prove my point you're not able to respond w/o using the boomerang method of claming men do the same thing)
@ManOnFire Apologies for jumping into your discussion but it does lead me to a question. Have you interacted w/ any women on this platform who are able to provide answers when their beliefs are challenged?
@ManOnFire Neither have I. It's something that I have seen in real life as well, women getting frustrated because their beliefs are challenged. Originally I thought it was me, because I do this to everyone but as I've spent more time on this platform I've come to realize that it's a real thing and most woman simply dont see the need in validating their opinion. If you scroll through the comments anytime a womans belief is questioned they get defensive hurl some random insult and run off. Do you think they realize that people are actually trying to hear their POV?
@Vegasrunner I've seen a lot of the same, yes. Basically what's happening is that the women believe their ideas are right and they don't care if they're wrong, if you think they're wrong, or even if you can show them that they're wrong, because they want to feel the way they want to feel about it. Catch that there, that's key what I said at the end.
But when you reverse it they feel that men's views are just downright wrong because they make the women uncomfortable, even if maybe the men are not wrong about all their views. I think women have a subconscious moral complex where they believe because they're women, whatever they say or think is more right and has to be because it comes from a gender that feels it's more injured or deserves more respect and acknowledgment.
@ManOnFire you know this is the same user that said it's okay to lie to women to get sex if that's the only way to have sex with them, right? And yes, I'm going to disagree with that... Also funny, he's only jumping on women's threads on my posts who disagree with him, saying we can't handle disagreement, yet not jumping on any of the men's threads that disagreed, why is that... Just because a woman disagrees with a man don't automatically make him right and her wrong... But y'all can continue your conversation now
@ManOnFire I agree. The irony of it is I originally came to this platform looking to disprove this theory. In my personal life I'm the exact same way w/ women I question and challenge their beliefs it drives them insane but in the end they always seem to pick me. I would probably be labeled as a "dick" but women love dicks and I never could quite figure out why until I came on this platform. Now after expanding my sample size a lot makes sense. I once had a girl freak out because I wouldn't come back over and have sex w/ her the next day. After questioning why she finally confided that I was the first man to ever tell her no. I thought she was batshit crazy but seeing some of the reactions on this site I think that is an actual thing.
@Brainsbeforebeauty@ManOnFire Again apologies to both of you for jumping in the conversation but I believe I'm the user being referred to. If you're interested please read that interaction as I believe it highlights some interesting POV's. What u you'll also notice is how often the author takes a statement adds fabrication to it and then wants to begin an argument based on that fabrication. For instance my original statement was I 100% lie to women because it works. The author then took that statement and responded w/ You think"it's okay to lie to women to get sex" (something that was never said) This is another tactic women use to avoid being questioned on their beliefs. As for the jumping on women's threads as I mentioned b4 I'm trying to find 1 normal woman that can hold a conversation w/ someone who doesn't share their POV as of yet I have not found one on here.
I 100% lie to women and I do it because it works that's all.
Reply Brainsbeforebeauty Brainsbeforebeauty 8 d @Vegasrunner bet you're single though, right? Lolol and on another thread Yea, lying to women to get what you want is fine. It's more difficult for men to get women then vice versa so they're going to have to do what they have to do. It's just one of many double standards in gender relationships
@Brainsbeforebeauty And I don't agree with his particular viewpoint on that subject of lying to get sex, but that doesn't invalidate his point right now.
What I'm talking to you about is you believe your beliefs make them right, but you feel that mine make me wrong.
Where did I say that? I said people need to stop expecting period! I never made it personal about you like this user has been doing on multiple posts of mine
@Vegasrunner I was going to private message you, but as you only accept messages from those who follow you, and I'm definitely not interested in following you, I'll leave it here.. I removed your last reply, because I'm done with people thinking they can spread mistruths about people on here and think it's okay because it's the internet.. I'm also going to say, as much as I don't ever block people just because we disagree, if you continue to try to discredit me by harassing, making shit up, I will block. I was also going to say if it continues, I'll report but I see on another post where you're once again attacking a female because she doesn't have the same point of view (as you claim it's women who can't see/handle differing points of view) that some of the mods are already aware and talking of reporting to admin... Lastly, one of the users I respect the most on this site is a male user that we sometimes agree, but we also sometimes disagree/butt heads on certain topics, but we ALWAYS stay respectful, agree to disagree, and remain GAG "friends"... So, I can listen, respect differing points of view, I don't respect men who try to invalidate a woman's pov just because she's a woman... You can disrespect women all you want, but you'll no longer do it on my replies/posts...
@Brainsbeforebeauty That's just a long winded way to say you were questioned on your beliefs you dont have valid answers, so now your going to try to use the emotion play and then run away. All pretty standard. Thank you for sharing this.
@Vegasrunner would you just stop already, you accuse others of the very behavior YOU'RE guilty of... I'm not running away from anything... When you can learn to discuss things like an adult, instead of trying to discredit someone just because of their gender, then talk to me... But again, you never answered why you're only jumping on women's threads that have a different pov than you, but not the men? Why is that? Cuz you can't discredit them because of their gender? 🤷🏼♀️
@Brainsbeforebeauty You should probably take your own advice. If what you were saying was remotely true you would provide evidence. You were asked basic questions in an attempt to learn why you share the POV you do. Instead of just answering like a normal person you've freaked out and just starting making up things, attempting to use the same fear mongering language that many women use when their beliefs are questioned by men. I'm simply in search of one woman who can hold a civilized conversation w/ someone who shares a different POV than them and challenges their beliefs. As of yet I have not found one as they all follow tma similar template as you are. What I find odd is you have to realize this is a written correspondence yet you continue to make accusations w/o evidence.
@Vegasrunner okay again you should stop... Anyone can go on your profile and see where you're mostly jumping on women, calling them liars, and I can post the link where the mod jumped in and said she was aware of it.. but see, I have to work now, and I don't feel the need to disprove your bs accusations, it's really not that serious to me... You just another hyprocritical person that is transferring your negative actions on to someone else, and that shit don't work for me... Bye now... I'm not responding to anything else cuz that's what you want but I'm done with it...✌️👋
@Brainsbeforebeauty That's ok, the more you post the more you prove my point. The overall theme is you're allowed to name, call question, lie and mislead, and when called on this you simply claim you're being harassed. That "mod" is blindly believing you w/actually looking objectionaly at the interaction.
@Vegasrunner okay here you go with more lies.. I didn't report nothing to any mod, I wasn't even on that post/thread, you were attacking another user, not me, another female, kinda ironic it was the user you bragged about 100% lying to women, and she called you on it, so again if you ain't the pot calling the kettle... Why don't you just quit already...
The difference is he loses money. But they BOTH get sex. So wanting sex isn't exactly one-sided assuming he isn't forcing himself in her.
I find these expectations dumb though. I hate this sort of transactional dating. It isn't even necessary. It's a carry over from when women couldn't make their own money, so had to marry into it, so he had to show his wealth.
Pay for yourselves and don't expect sex unless the feeling is mutual. Ffs we're all adults here.
Do like the Scandinavians do. Go for coffee. Nice, cheap, informal. Pay for yourselves. Have sex if you want it. Keep seeing each other if you want to. All of this labelling and ownership is obnoxious. Friends. Friends with benefits. Seeing each other but not exclusive. Exclusive. Going steady. Engaged. Engagement rings. Promise-of-engagement rings. Promise-of-promise-of-engagement rings.
Instead I propose: Pay for yourselves. Have sex if you want it. If you do, assume you're exclusive unless you talk about it being open. Profit. Get married or don't.
I feel like the transactional dating scheme also enforces the idea that women aren't sexual. Like sex is something a man earns and then she just performs it for him, rather than something two people want.
I think removing transactional dating would go a long way in people "believing" in women's libido.
I think it's more of a test: if a woman can give you sex after first date, what makes you think she hasn't done this before?
Now sex for women in general is sacred (because of risks involved) and if such a sacred thing is being handled like a transaction, this can make some question about her "long term worth" (call me sexist but sex is a different deal for men and women because of the risks involved)
If you are someone who is really open to sex and considers it simply as a drug, as a means to attain pleasure, then you can be assured that you are dating a woman who shares your values (assuming you got sex after first date)
If you are someone who thinks of sex as a sacred thing, a procedure of bonding with each other, then she is someone who wishes to have an emotional bond before any physical bond. (Assuming you didn't get sex after first date)
Another possibility is that she is someone who uses date for free food. She will probably ghost you after first date and the amount you had spent on the date will be worth it, because you won't be meeting her again tomorrow
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Many more women expect to get their meals payed vs. men who expect on dates. Especially on first dates.
Unless I get very clear signals from a girl I don’t expect to touch home plate on date one. In fact if I really like her I prefer not to have sex on date one. I have once gotten in a long term relationship with one girl I once hooked up on date one. But it screw things up moving too fast. But if she is holding out after 3 dates she better have a legitimate and honest excuse. Nowadays that means 9 out 10 times she doesn’t like nor respect me (different story many years ago).
However I do expect one thing: RESPECT. She must say thank and/or show some inkling of gratitude for me paying. She must be paying more attention to me than her f*cking cell phone. She can’t be asking me loaded questions (e. g. politics is a favorite girl trap). Last but not least she better not be talking about exes or her dating life in general.
It’s completely possible for a woman to not be attracted to man but still have the class to respect him. Respect doesn’t mean opening your legs to a guy. If she’s interested then great. But if she’s not than just don’t be a selfish pos.
Anyway not all women are like that above but some are and percentage is going in the wrong direction.
Well…. If the man invited the woman then he shall pay, but if the woman invited a man she should pay unless it is specified by either person before the date happens. If a woman automatically assumes the man should pay its because she wants to know and feel that he can be a provider, and can take care of her. But that’s not really fair is it. Men who assume a woman should pay I feel are weak and can’t take care of themselves. It gives a woman a sense that if they got together that she would be carrying him and supporting him. That’s why assumptions are not good. And that’s why I think it should be whoever asked whom should pay unless y’all have talked about it before hand. And whatever you do, don’t say your paying and “leave your wallet at home” And as far as sex on the first night, it really depends on the person and situation. If your both really into the date and getting along great and it leads that way then great. But again don’t assume! Some woman feel it is a respect issue. They don’t want you to think that they are easy or a slut. And woman think men who expect it are just pigs looking for a piece of ass. A hit it and quit it! A dump and go! Etc… don’t expect and don’t assume, just see where the night leads you. If you really had a great time and don’t have sex, then it leaves the next date open for possibilities. It will build up to a better connection. The longer it takes the more you will enjoy it.
Solution: why don't we state our intentions for dating from the start, like adults. "I'm dating because I want a healthy long term relationship." Or "I'm looking for something very casual, ie. sex." So we won't be disillusioned when things go south.
When paying, say something along the lines of, "So, how are we going to pay? I usually...(ex: pay 50/50)." State your values, without being forceful and they can agree or disagree. If they disagree, decide if that's a deal breaker. If it is, move on to someone else. Dating isn't trying to conform the other party to how you think. It's open communication to range your compatibility.
Unless you're planning on being with everyone you date, the dating market at large shouldn't matter. Your looking for one person, just one. Decide want you want and vet people. That is literally the point of dating. If you're upset men have to pay, then look for a women who pays her share as well. Commincate like adults, guys. 💀
I beg to differ. I believe whoever asks the other person out for the date should pay, man or woman. Which leads me to point 2. Fellas, pay attention to what I'm about to mention here:
BEWARE FINESSERS.
I can't stress this enough y'all. You ask a girl out, she agrees because she wants a free meal. Keywords: YOU ask HER out. Rule 1 applies. How do you identify a finesser? Easy. If she asks you for a specific spot that she knows, she's a finesser.
Generally, you should NEVER take a girl out to a restaurant on a first date. That's basically asking time get played. Instead, go on a simple coffee date and get to on each other better. Restaurant dates should be reserved for couples.
If she cringes at the idea of a coffee date, you know she's a finesser, and you have just saved 1/10th of your monthly rent from ordering a fancy dish that you don't even like anyway.
@ManOnFire I know a lot of dudes that say they wouldn't take pay for a date, because they got finessed by some girl. That's why I put that there. I'm very old-school though, so if I ask a girl out, I'm paying, but the selection process is definitely very straightforward. Any red-flags, immediately cancel the date.
Expectations are allowed. But, neither men or women should force this idea and lead life as if those were the laws/rules.
If a man doesn't pay for dinner dates, the woman shouldn't put this thing as a negative point on their list of pro and con of dating that person. It shouldn't be considered as a bad trait.
If a woman doesn't want to have sex on the first date, the man shouldn't judge this woman was 'playing hard to get'.
Both should just be cool with those things.
But, that is my ideal world. In reality people expect something from another person, then get disappointed, and leave. Which is a very immature thing to do.
I definitely don't want sex on the first date if I think there might be a future in the relationship, sex on the first date to me says she is only friends with benefits or fb material.
I might offer to pay be that doesn't mean she should expect it, but also I tend to suggest something less formal for a first date, like grabbing a coffee or a light lunch, as neither of us have any idea what our connection will be like, and if it is going well suggest a nice walk afterwards to carry on chatting. Nobody wants to be stuck on a whole evenings dinner date with someone that they just aren't vibing with.
I never expect sex on the first date, nor would I want it, if it were offered to me.
I think the first date is too soon, and I'd prefer not to sleep with a woman until I get to know her better, and see if there's any possibility of a future together. If she offered sex without getting to know me, first, I would be flattered, but concerned that she gives it up too easily.
That being said, I also prefer to pay, simply because I was raised as a gentleman, and I believe that's how it should be. If she offers to pay, I would tell her it's not necessary. If she insisted, however, than I would respect that, and split the bill with her, simply so she wouldn't feel any sort of obligation towards me, or think that I expect anything from her.
@ManOnFire Great question! My short answer is no. I dont think there's a difference people have expectations and it's only our inherent narrccissm that allows us to forget that other people have needs as well. If a woman thinks that men are spending money and resources and expecting nothing in return then she's naive. If a man thinks paying for a date entitles him to sex he's ignorant. W/ that said I have a couple rules that I would like to get your feedback on. 1) My first date is always a cup of coffee 2) If I haven't slept w/ a woman by the 3rd date I dont see her anymore. Broken each of these a couple times but for the most part they are my hard rules and I think they help to not have to worry about situations like you mentioned.
It’s funny this came up on my feed because I just resolved an issue where the guy invited me for a weekend away to get to know me more and expected to share a room whereas I barely know him. Difference is money versus dignity and self respect. If a man has the money and means to pay to show his interest than yes for a first date or more they should pay. But those dates are for the girl to learn her feelings and comfort level with the man before sleeping with them and giving away her body to him.
@ManOnFire No real woman with standards would want to date a guy who isn’t willing to pay for a simple meal. What you won’t do the next man will and is more likely to win her over.
@ManOnFire a real man knows paying for a date is not being taking advantage of. he's showing a kind gesture to a woman he is interested in…and real women loves that. Immature guys only have that mind set and and most women no that.
@TwinkleLily5 "he's showing a kind gesture to a woman he is interested in…and real women loves that." - I used to be that guy, until I found out plenty of women love this so they can take advantage of it. And they also try to guilt other men into being this "gentleman" so they can take advantage of them too. And they like knowing that any guy who will always pay her way is a guy she can rely on to pay any of her other bills she might need being met. Even if they're not in a relationship.
@TwinkleLily5 "take it as an L and pick better women." - This is assuming you didn't think you picked the right woman to begin with. Most people don't know they're picking the wrong person until they see things later.
We gotta come up with better advice than tirelessly telling someone to "pick the right person next time." As if most choose the wrong ones on purpose.
@ManOnFire pick the right woman who isn’t going to use you for a free meal. Pick a woman who seems interested in you.
There doesn’t need to be better advice given. You need to take responsibility and own up to the fact that you picked a woman that was not interested in you and used you as a meal ticket.
There are better women out there it’s up to you to pick them and distinguish them from the users
Whoever made the plans (asking out, picking the restaurant, etc) without the other person having say on where (surprise date, making 1st move, etc) should pay.
If the plans were made unanimously (where and when), then the bill should be split 50/50, with the option of one being generous enough to pay the entire bill if they sincerely offer.
Expecting sex or gifts for your time or money is an exchange of goods you deem valuable, a transaction; so by that logic you're treating your date like a prostitute or a simp. So no, you shouldn't expect sex unless you're actually with a prostitute; and you shouldn't expect gifts unless it's a holiday, your birthday or from long-term partner/friend. Why not expect gifts from new dates? If it's flowers or store-sealed candy/something small, great; but if it's jewelry, expensive clothes/bags/etc then it's a red flag that this person is trying to gain your trust/admiration quickly by buying it.
Whom ever asks someone out to dinner, then they should be the one to pay - male or female.
I resent when a guy would take me out to dinner then expect me to put out with sex. That's B. S.!! I don't have a problem cooking dinner for myself. I don't need some guy to buy my food in turn I have to give him sex? Nope, nope, and nope! I would rather skip the date with him, stay at home by myself with a good movie, and a box of Krispy Kreme donuts! He can go find a sex worker and leave me out of it.
Whomever asks, is just an easy way to say men should pay. Have you ever asked a man out to dinner and then actually paid for it? Probably not, so you saying that doesn't mean shit really. I've only seen women pay for dates, when they are in a relationship.
I have always paid for my dates, and I've had plenty of women take advantage of that.
I stopped seeing one woman because she never even offered to pay for anything. After months of seeing each other, and no sex, just fooling around a bit. Wasn't worth hit. I had to plan, pick her up, pay for everthing, and no sex. So I stopped seeing her, and I told her the reason.
She laughed at me, yelled at me, called me cheap, told me men are supposed to pay. I told her good luck with that and that I found someone else. Started dating someone new, she did not like that.
She then proceeded to basically stalk me for months, "apologized" for taking advantage of me, and tried numerous times to get me back "because I make so much more money then the other guys"
Guys don't expect sex for food. We expect sex after seeing you for a certain amount of time, and paying for everything. You resent a man for expecting you to pay for ONE meal. Try dating a woman for weeks/months, paying for everything you do, and then have her dump you without even getting any sex.
You are gonna miss out on a lot of good men if you have the attitude that the woman I talked about has. Sure she was hot, but I'd rather be with a girl who appreciates me, for more than just my wallet.
@nitsuj86 I have never asked a guy out on a dinner date and I don't think it's right to expect him to always pay for things for me. But at the same time, he has no right to expect sex from me for buying me a tossed salad 🥗. Hire a sex worker, cause they need the 💰
Both are grown a$$ adults. But are investing their time meeting each other, getting to know eachother. But work full time jobs. And like 10% of women ask out men. So that just isn't fair. I do not expect sex either. We are both there for the same reasons. Both should be invested. Man can ask 100 women on dates, if they do not work out, so much time and money wasted. Which ends up making men not want to date.
So you have never asked a man out... but whoever asks should pay... A lot of women feel this way, so basically men have to pay for their time.
You say hire a sex worker. Ok, why don't you go through a drive through somewhere if you are hungry?
Much easier for you to go to a restaurant and buy some food for yourself, than it would be for me to go find a prositute and risk losing my entire life paying for sex when it's not legal. I think it should be legal so men don't have to put up with that shit just to get laid.
Why is it that women deserve money for their time, but a man is supposed to give his freely without expecting anything in return? Because you want what you want, and fuck everyone else. Basically.
@nitsuj86 first of all, I am an very old fashioned woman. Back when a guy asked a girl out on a date, he actually liked paying for that things for her. There was no discussion about who would pay for dinner. That's those women's libber's causing all that confusing stuff. I am not a woman's libber! Hey, I am on your side here. And as far as getting a sex worker they are all over motel parking lots just waiting for a John. Nevada prostitution is legal there, so those guys don't have any problems. And being a woman, I have been around guys always expecting to get laid without dinner and a movie. They just wanted to use me for free. Now that's B. S. because I am a respectable person with high moral values, and I am someone's mother. So why did they treat me like I was a slut? I had a job, a nice place to live, a car, etc. Nothing about me said "Hey baby, I am a slut and treat me like one." So, why do guys behave that way?
Well... You say you are old-fashioned, but sounds like you have a child and are out here dating. If you divorced your husband to do so, I would hardly say that is old-fashioned. You decided to enter back into the modern dating world, and now find that as a single mother you are only attracting men looking for sex, and not a relationship.
That would probably be due to the fact that most traditional "gentlemen" you are after, don't want another man's child. They wan't their own family. So you get those other types.
Like I said, sure I can find a hooker, but I risk a lot doing so. And do you really think it's reasonable for men to fly to nevada whenever they want some unattached sex? That's why I said almost all states, because I knew you would say "VEGAS". Would you fly to another state just to have sex?
I think it depends on how the man is raised. His parents may have taught him how to be a gentleman, for example, opening the door for the woman, helping her take off her coat before sitting down at a restaurant, paying for the meal, etc. He has these values installed in him since childhood. And he doesn't expect women to sleep with him because of these values.
If a woman knows that man is a gentleman she may want to go out with him because of that. She may only want to date a gentleman. And it's expected of a gentleman to do gentleman things. I hope I'm making sense.
Of course. But I don't think a man should be paying any woman's way that he is not in an official relationship with yet. Women can take advantage of these gentlemanly guys, and they do all the time. Some women will even try to guilt other guys into being like that so they can take advantage of them too.
I guess I misunderstood your point. I thought you were trying to install your point of view on others who don't have your point of view. Like trying to convince other people to the way you think. You're just stating your point of view. Everyone has that right.
Next time just don't go into it assuming what you think without first hearing someone out and then you can evaluate the whole situation. We can be so much more than selective listeners.
The difference is women think they're right because the guy's being "a gentleman" while thinking men are "chauvinistic pigs" for expecting something from them in return.
Objectively, there's little difference. But women don't let objectivity get in the way of their feelings.
I honestly don’t think that is the same thing. Sex shouldn’t be transactional. Just because you bought me this doesn’t me your entitled to my you know what. If you wanted a transaction like that, why not just go on a date with or hire a prostitute?
I think whoever ask the person out, should be the one taking the bill especially if it’s the first date. I never had a guy not offer to pay on the first date but I always bring my own money just in case. If after courting, me and that person get in a relationship then I have no issue planning the dates and paying for dates for my s/o. You just need to find someone that shares your preference for going dutch/ paying for their meals with their you know what.
I always offer to pay my way on a date and if a guy thinks he can have sex with me because he bought me a drink he's gonna be a sadly mistaken. I'm not a hooker.
Just because you did something nice doesn't mean your intitled to someone's body and it's actually a really disgusting and unattractive quality to have when people behave this way. If I didn't ask him to buy me the drink and he did out of the kindest of his heart then I'd think he was a lovely genuine man but then if he said I bought you a drink which was £7.50 therefore you owe me sex I'd find that highly disrespectful and ungentlemanly. My vagina is not worth any man's money and if it was I surely wouldn't be charging the same price as a cocktail for it.
The purpose of the outing is to find common ground, work on communication skills and conflict resolution, develop an emotional bond, and learn about opportunities to be of maximum compatibility and benefit to one another. And to find common cause around which future children should be raised.
"I paid the bill, now give me your vagina" is entirely the wrong focus! It reduces her to a prostitute.
Likewise, "I bothered to show up, now pay for me to be spoiled, but expect nothing else from me!" is the hallmark of a gold digger. She reduces the man to nothing but an ATM, and herself to nothing but a parasite.
So her unrealistic expectations are doubly wrong! But if she plays along with his as well?
Then both have the wrong focus, and are betraying what should be pursued in favor of engaging in what is essentially glorified prostitution.
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