If a modern woman abandons her traditional roles, wouldn't it be fair for men to abandon theirs?

[MikeyObrien]

So I've thought about this for a while, and I am comfortable dating a woman who is modern if she means it. And at first my female friends seemed supportive but when told them I won't sacrifice my life protecting her and I will split everything 50/50 they seemed annoyed. Which confuses me because I thought they wanted an equal or feminist relationship and they are happy to relinquish their traditional roles, but if I relinquish mine it's a problem.

[ManOnFire]

You have many men of today who have abandoned their roles, and for the reasons you noted, but modern 'feminist' women hate that deep down. They still want to be able to have their cake and eat it too, wanting to be masculine but still wanting men to be masculine as well.

Supporting "equality" is one of the biggest lies modern women, feminists, and any other women tell themselves, because none of them actually believe in that. It's just a buzz word they use to seem like they're supporting everyone.

[Lliam]

My wife and I both have incomes. We both had lives and careers before we met.
We both contribute what we earn to having a happy life and building a future together as a couple. We both do chores around the house. We make decisions together. Neither is the boss. We are equal partners, best friends, confidants, and lovers. She admires me for having masculine traits and talents and I admire her equally. She's very feminine.

I love her intellect, talent, work ethic and success, as well as her feminine nature. I don't want someone to do nothing but wait on me and "comfort" me. We comfort each other. I didn't marry someone to be my mommy.

[Potteplante]

I'm a modern woman - I do not want traditional gender roles.

Does that mean I want everything 50/50 at all times? No. It means that we can define our roles - based on our dynamic and current life situation. Not by traditions, not by anyone elses notion about how a relationship should be. My last relationship, we were equal - no matter who paid the bills, which changed through out the years. He was the main breadwinner, I was the main breadwinner - we split 50/50. & I mean I would be quite upset if my partner didn't want to protect me since I want to protect those I care about - that includes my partner.

[lolasmayona]

Yes, a 100%. These days, women expect men to pay for dates, open doors for them, etc…yet a lot of them don’t behave like a traditional woman.

[MikeyObrien]

That's what I was thinking. Like I wanna be a traditional man, but I can't do that with a modern women.

[lolasmayona]

Yea unfortunately it’s tough to find traditional women in countries like the U. S.
I recommend you go to Asian countries like China/Korea/Taiwan if you’re looking for a serious relationship with a nurturing, traditional woman.

[MikeyObrien]

Fair enough. I just wanna stay living in the states and most women I've met online from there don't wanna move here.

[lolasmayona]

I was going to say maybe be the gentleman and be the one to move there instead of telling the girl to come.. but then it would be tough for you with regards to the language barrier. Like how are you going to be able to work somewhere like in China/Korea without even knowing how to speak their language? Yeah it’s definitely tough on your end. Maybe try going to church and joining church groups? Maybe you might find a good, God-loving traditional woman there.

[MikeyObrien]

It's more of a problem that my career forces me to stay in the states. So if I moved to her country I wouldn't be able to work which defeats the purpose.

[MikeyObrien]

I'm actually not religious, plus most of the people in church font practice what they preach to be honest.

[BarryLiverstone]

Yep we both suggested he tries to go to church as many trad girls are there wanting a good man. But he said he’s not religious

[MikeyObrien]

I once met a Baptist girl in college who literally was banged in the parking lot 20 minutes before entering the church lol

[lolasmayona]

I mean of course… I’m not saying every single woman who attends church isn’t getting d***ed down every now and then.
But you will definitely have a much higher chance finding that traditional woman at a church as opposed to a bar.

[MikeyObrien]

That's definitely true. The more wholesome places are usually where wholesome women are. My longest relationship was with a girl I met in the library.

[OlderAndWiser]

I have standards for my personal conduct and they are based on my beliefs about my role in a relationship, what I have to offer to a woman, and what I think she needs from me, I hold myself accountable for maintaining those standards, and I do not use anyone else's conduct as an excuse for deviating from my standards. If a woman does not to fulfill the role that I want a partner to have, then I don't abandon my standards; I abandon her and look elsewhere.

[Nikki1989]

I hope you don't expect any woman with half-a-brain to give up her ambitions, career, and everything else to stay home and do housework.

[MikeyObrien]

Not at all. I want a woman who's ambition and goal is to be a mom, and I wanna help her build that life together.

[Nikki1989]

So you want a slave, in other words. Good luck with that.

[MikeyObrien]

Where did you get slave from? I said a woman who wants to be those things, I would never force a woman to be my wife and have my kids.

[LiamJHayden]

People can do whatever they want. People can be traditional in some ways and more modern in others. Very few are actually fully one way or the other.

[DextroShade]

They only want equality when it benefits them, feminism is just a huge scam and these modern feminist women deserve to die alone.

[Unknown29]

If a girl thought she was going to take a masculine role in her relationship with me, I’D DUMP HER!

[BarryLiverstone]

What trad roles does she give up?

[MikeyObrien]

Not having to work, she would stay at home cooking and cleaning while the man works, solely taking care of kids, and she wouldn't wear anything provocative in public. Those are just a few traditional roles.

[BarryLiverstone]

So I’d say it’s unfair for you to give up protecting and caring for her if she chooses to work and improve her life. Modern couples are able to coparent and navigate society as a team. Your idea of provocative may not match what she’s comfortable wearing

[BarryLiverstone]

Also that’s unfair to the kids if their mom solely raised them

[MikeyObrien]

Then what do the guys get out of it? If the men don't get what they want but the women do, that doesn't seem fair.

[BarryLiverstone]

Guys get love, support, compassion, loyalty, commitment….

I mean you don’t want to marry a woman because she’s a maid and chef and day care worker do ya.. was that what you needed

[MikeyObrien]

Nobody loves unconditionally, women will leave their man if they stop paying bills. And I don't blame them because everyone has a right to standards.

I will challenge you, what's something you can't get from a woman that you can't get from a dog, maid, chef, and prostitute?

[BarryLiverstone]

A wife. Someone I can pray with and trust completely, be vulnerable and who will keep me accountable. My better half. Certainly i can’t pray with a dog and can’t cry on a maids shoulder

[MikeyObrien]

And if the man isn't religious? Also you can cry or be vulnerable with friends you don't need a woman for that.

[BarryLiverstone]

When you get married you don’t just leave when bills are unpaid. A man isn’t a bank; he’s a partner to work with. If he loses his job maybe he stays home and she works. Maybe they work together to find him a job. This isn’t 1930

[BarryLiverstone]

You challenged me and didn’t include a friend in your list. If he isn’t religious I’d ask why not? And what does he believe in

[MikeyObrien]

I agree it's not 1930. So a man shouldn't be expected to protect and provide for a woman. That's a traditional gender role.

[BarryLiverstone]

Yep. My sister in law has a job and makes $. She carries a gun and doesn’t need my brother to protect her. But when together he wants to protect her and she submits to him.

[MikeyObrien]

I don't think we actually disagree by the way. I want to be a traditional man to a wife, I just expect the same from her if I'm with her. I'm not religious so I disagree about that but if she is it's fine.

[MikeyObrien]

Also I highly doubt she submits to him. That's extremely rare in the west.

[BarryLiverstone]

I’d suggest you open yourself up to religion and faith. If your goal is trad most guys back in the day went to church and many trad girls today are raised in faith. If you are staying away from that you are choosing to limit your options

[BarryLiverstone]

I didn’t lie. Amanda submits to Mike.

[BarryLiverstone]

by the way in some cases he submits to her. It’s not a 100% thing

[MikeyObrien]

That's not a traditional relationship then.

[MikeyObrien]

Which is fine it doesn't have to be.

[BarryLiverstone]

As I said it’s not 1930. You can have elements of a trad marriage today but you must be willing to open up and grow with someone else. I know you are distrusting of church but could you at least try to visit some churches this summer and see how it feels?

[MikeyObrien]

I have. I like the messages, but I don't believe in the supernatural. So I don't believe in God, or ghosts, or anything like that.

[BarryLiverstone]

Then keep going bro. There is community and support and fellowship. You don’t have to fully have faith. Go to hear the message and more importantly meet people

[MikeyObrien]

And yeah obviously you have to compromise in a relationship so I'm not gonna not protect my partner because she didn't make dinner or something crazy. But if she's not going to cook, clean, watch the kids. Then she needs to get a job and split things 50/50.

[BarryLiverstone]

It’s never 50/50. It’s you giving 100 and her giving 100 and between the two of you things get done. Like you said communication and compromise. Mike cooks and Amanda bakes. Amanda drives the kids to activities and Mike has a long commute. They both clean on the weekends and rn the kids are up north so they are working on house projects. Bottom line is you can’t cement roles in the first year of dating but you each do what you can together.

[MikeyObrien]

Do they split the bills 50/50?

[BarryLiverstone]

Not sure. My guess is they share a bank account and pay the mortgage and other bills. Do they need to split 50/50?

[BarryLiverstone]

I know they have been working on paying off credit cards and making financial progress so that’s a positive

[MikeyObrien]

Seems like a raw deal. But that's just me. I like more traditional roles personally.

[MikeyObrien]

If they're happy then I'm glad for them. All I've been saying this whole post is it's unfair for modern women to want traditional men.

[BarryLiverstone]

Modern women have taken a step forward in society compared to 1930 and can now vote, use BC, climb the corporate ladder, and be a leader. However they still want a man to love and protect them at the core and I know you can step up and be that man. Good luck bro

[MikeyObrien]

Those are all masculine attributes. I want a woman, not a man with a vagina.
Good luck to you too.

[Anonymous]

But you still want to be a modern man though. Odd.

[MikeyObrien]

I was playing devils advocate with them. I'm actually a traditional man.

[Opinion Owner]

But you want the perks of living in modern times.

[MikeyObrien]

No I actually don't.

[MikeyObrien]

I want to work and come home to my wife cleaning, cooking, and taking care of our kids. Then if any of them are in danger I would die for them.

[Tyrael]

Absolutely.

[KrakenAttackin]

Absolutely.