1 yWhy do women feel it is the man's obligation to make the first move? That is a very good question!!! I think they need to try it more often so that they can learn what rejection feels like.
60 Reply
Most Helpful Opinions
- 3.6K opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yMosly, tradition but also because they are taught that if they make the first move, it makes them look like a slut.
66 Reply- 1 y
Ima need a reference for having a conversation means you’re a slut thanks. Also in tradition settings women were always the initiators they were the ones signalling men with full blown languages fans, handkerchiefs, asking guys got a dance, using calling cards. The man needed the initial OK to pursue the courtship. I watched multiple movies made in the 40s women had no issue being social.
- 1 y
@Leon1 If a girl chases after a guy, she's seen as a slut.
Full blown languages? What's that?
Ima need a reference for fanning yourself means that you wanna fuck a guy.
Women were NOT the initiators! Not until about 115 years ago. And, for the most part, that only lasted a few years before it reverted.
MEN asked WOMEN to dance and handed out calling cards!
No, men usually just walked up and started talking to her. If she didn't snub him, things might pick up for him.
You should've watched some from the `20's and before. Even in the `70's it was still up to the guy to ask the girl out except on Sadie Hawkins day. I'm PRETTY SURE that still goes today. - 1 y
No if a girl Sleeps with a lot of guys she is seen as a slut, having a conversation with a guy and maybe exchanging contacts isn’t. People have always been social creatures women more so. Yes they had full blown language systems with varied items in time fans and hand kerchiefs were just 2 examples. https://cowperandnewtonmuseum
. org. uk/handkerchiefs-and-their-flirty-languages
Women very much had to show their initial interest to men to give them the green light, things changed in the mid 20th century. The initial process was always controlled by the women, it was the men that had to be convinced to settle down through dowries etc. had the jobs had the leverage in society, women needed to marry to get that.
- 1 y
It's not just the tradition or how they might be viewed but most females never had to risk anything to get a guy. If she can just show some skin and get attention from guys why would she risk rejection by making the first move? There's no incentive for her to take the risk. The fact is that guys are more visual than women, even in today's world where women say they like certain male looks over others. It's like asking why don't people ask their dogs to eat meat.
- 1 y
@Leon1 Yeah but the point is, if she makes the first move, it's like she's chasing and little girls MUSTN'T look like they WANT to do a lot of fucking!!
No, women less so! Walk onto a bus with a number of people already on it or into a room with a good many people and say hello to the first guy (a total stranger) you see. Chances are, he'll strike up a chat with you immediately! Try that with a woman and she'll most likely do everything she can to avoid you at all costs.
I still have no clue what a full blown language system is.
No, it's always been men that chased women. Even in the caveman days it was ALWAYS the men that beat the woman over the head with his club and dragged her home by her hair! Women NEVER did that to win a man!! - 1 y
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
28Opinion
- 1.1K opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yThe alternative would mean women risking real rejection.
People almost never exert more energy than they perceive is necessary to achieve a certain result. If you didn’t have to risk rejection and got to take your pick of suitable mates, would you still risk rejection?
Probably not.
Women are merely enjoying one of the many privileges evolutionary biology and societal conditioning has granted them. I understand why some men are frustrated by it, but it’s hypocritical to be critical of that particular behavior.23 Reply- 1 y
It's not hypocritical though, essentially 2nd wave feminists specifically called for equal treatment and behaviour of men and women. That also included the right for women to be seem as initiators. Of course it's not surprising though that modern 3rd/post 4rd wave feminists though have quietly ignored that, as they only want the beneficial parts of equality, not the downsides
- 1 y
I disagree. Men also would not risk rejection if they didn’t have to. And we don’t have to. You’re not owed a girlfriend. Women aren’t owed a boyfriend. Nobody owes anyone anything that they didn’t agree to. The reasons that marriage and childbirth are at historic lows is that men aren’t taking those risks anymore. The reason so many articles are being published about men not chasing women and the general disconnect between the sexes is men initiating interactions much more rarely, even at skool and work. Women are complaining that men don’t want to collaborate with them. Equality portrays in various ways. This is one of them.
We don’t have an equality issue on this matter until the man tax is put into place. It will happen. I guarantee it. - 1 y
I largely agreed with you, though it's only one element in the complex list of reasons for why there's such a gender disconnect, but then you contradict yourself by saying it's not an equality issue? But you just proved it is, by showing there's essentially a deadlock for a number of reasons, between men and women, with women still not wanting to break the ice, and men no longer bothering. If things really were equal, that deadlock wouldn't be there, but it is there because there are differing unequal expectations between the genders in society. What do you mean by the 'man tax' here?
1 yI don't necessarily. I think a lot more women do make the first move than men realize, but it looks different than a man's first move. It's a lot more subtle, which is a feminine trait. I never asked a guy on a first date first, with one exception, but I definitely let him know I was approachable and wanted him to make a move. Except one time, I put together a get together at my place and called the guy I was interested in to invite him to the party... as my date. Not terribly subtle, but low key... and it worked. I also never minded if someone wasn't interested. I'd rather know that right up front and not waste time and energy.
212 Reply- 1 y
@Caroline91 You're not really making the first move, you're flirting and leaving yourself an out. in my opinion that's the best way for women because you guys aren't able to handle rejection.
- 1 y
@Vegasrunner So then call it an invitation to make a move. I do fine with rejection... I'm a writer by profession. Reject away. Every no gets me closer to a yes. 🙃
- 1 y
@Caroline91 The fact that you attribute a general statement to yourself tells me you proably don't take rejection as well as you claim. I'm an actual professional writer, why do you get rejected?
- 1 y
@Vegasrunner Wellll... let's see... Perhaps I didn't recognize it as a general statement since I interpreted the first sentence as being particular to me, since you used "you" in referencing statements I made about myself. And I did get "you guys" as general, but I don't happen to fit into that generalization. Somehow, it just irritated me and that's hard to do... so congratulations! lol.
actually, I'm really trying hard not to be bitchy here because that really is not my nature. But, you do realize that by saying you are an "actual" professional writer that it could be construed to mean that you doubt that I am? Amazing how much difference just one word can make in meaning, isn't it? I'm going to choose to believe you aren't intending it to be insulting. Language is fascinating. I was trained as a journalist and worked in that field and public relations until I decided to stay home with my children. As I am sure you are aware, there is all kinds of rejection in producing the news and things are very blunt because there just isn't enough time for niceties. Public relations is can also be a pretty intense work environment. I have a pretty thick skin and just don't tend to take things personally, even if they are intended that way. Of course, I do have my moments. lol - 1 y
@Caroline91 The general statement is the part that says you guys, which you responded to w/ anecdotal evidence. Yes, I intentionally used that word because I doubt you're a professional writer, simply because the odds that we are both professional writers is slim. If I understand you, I was correct. I never personally faced rejection for my writing so I can't say I'm familiar.
- 1 y
@Vegasrunner Ok. Thanks for your thoughts.
- 1 y
@Caroline91 No worries, glad I could educate you.
- 1 y
@Vegasrunner I'm not a professional writer, but I do wonder why you are challenging someone over also being a professional writer. Lol. It's not impossible. To be honest, I'm just chiming in not minding my own business, and I'm just curious as I read through this. Feel free to educate us plebs.
- 1 y
@Friendlybro79 Thany you for reading. Not sure if you read the entire exchange but I was right.
- 1 y
@Friendlybro79 lol. Take a bow, sir. I appreciate your comments. Sometimes I find it's just time to let someone else "win".
- 1 y
Lol. You have the right attitude when conversing online for sure.
325 opinions shared on Dating topic. It is as explained by @chazmatazz269. That is, women do not approach because they will not risk rejection. However, @Caroline91 is also correct. If interested, women let men know they are approachable.
Men should should not approach unless the woman makes the first move by smiling and saying "Hi" or doing something something that indicates they may be willing to be approached. That way women don't risk rejection since being friendly offers plausible deniability.
100% of the time, men will be rejected if they approach a woman when the woman did not indicate that she may be willing to be approached. It is okay for a man to get a woman's attention by smiling and seeing if she smiles back and also lingers rather than walking away.
10 Reply- 721 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yIf it's starting a conversation (online or irl) I don't mind making the first move if I think he's available (single) and looking. That said, I do feel it's the mans obligation to "make or suggest the first date" since in general, it's important to allow the guy the space to show you how much effort he's willing to invest in you or if he's even interested romantically at all.
Most guys that aren't looking for anything serious will go a long with doing the bare minimum as long as they think they'll get laid. If he genuinely wants something serious, he'll manage his own time/resources appropriately and be picky about who he dates, he won't mind about planning a few first dates.10 Reply
1 yIt's not just because women feel that way it's because nature designed men that way.
Men are designed to be the hunters and pursuers, the initiators and the leaders. Women are attracted to those traits by nature not by nurture. It's been that way for millions of years.
All you need is to look around at other animal species and you will find that it is often the male who is the pursuer in order to lead to successful procreation and survival of the species.
Without that male trait we wouldn't be here today.10 Reply
Anonymous(45 Plus)1 yBecause that's how it is in the animal kingdom man. The male typical does some sort of dance and if he wins the females favor they mate. Of course, that's the animal kingdom.😆 the female species in animals doesn't flirt with male after male just for the attention and wasting his time and potentially resources.
For guys it used to be much more certain that things were going somewhere. Women now have equality have adjusted thier behavior to act more like men. So it shouldn't really surprise them men have adjusted thier behavior yo act more like women used to (somebody has to)😆.
I figure this upheaval should last for a couple more generations while both genders figure it out. Till then, neither gender is going to be very happy.
40 Reply
Anonymous(18-24)1 yIt's because it's what you love, @princeofromance. It is who you were born to be. And here you sit, thinking. Well, @princeofromance is not a thinker. @princeofromance is a man. He is a doer. And that's what you need to do. You don't need to think. You need to be a man. You need speed. You need to go out there, and you need to rev your engine. You need to fire it up. You need to grab a hold of that line between speed and chaos, and you need to wrestle it to the ground like a demon cobra! And then, when the fear rises up in your belly, you use it. And you know that fear is powerful, because it has been there for billions of years. And it is good. And you use it. And you ride it; you ride it like a skeleton horse through the gates of hell, and then you win, @princeofromance. You WIN! And you don't win for anybody else. You win for you, you know why? Because a man takes what he wants. He takes it all. And you're a man, aren't you? Aren't you?
10 Reply- 807 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yA mix of nature, and nurture.. Men are naturally more aggressive and straightforward.. Pursuing what you want is masculine.. A woman can damn near be obsessed with you, but will never approach you, whereas even the most shy man will build up the courage to make the first move if he really likes a girl..
22 Reply- 1 y
1 yI dont expect it but I do like it. If I really like a guy and he isn't picking up on it then I'll try more direct tactics. But I do enjoy being pursued.
30 Reply- 929 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yLOL, because women are not very courageous. They are generally insecure. They don't like risks. They don't take rejection well. And they can get horny men to do the asking by using sex as a weapon. It's a pretty simple and predictable choice of strategy for women.
20 Reply - 1.3K opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yIt just is.. Most guys will date a girl they aren't interested in just because they asked. Where as woman tend to be more picky than that. I often like an outspoken dude then one who is held back.
20 Reply - 1.3K opinions shared on Dating topic.
u 1 yThats the way men set up societal expectations centuries ago.. we live in a patriarchy, after all. Men felt that they should be superior and dominant over women.
21 Reply- 1 y
It's not societal, it's natural. Men are designed by nature and millions of years of evolution to be the hunters, pursuers, protectors, initiators and leaders in a society. And nature always prevails regardless of the societal fad of the day. That's why it has been this was for millions of years and persists regardless of intermittent societal fads.
- 3.1K opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yTraditional gender roles. But I don’t feel that way. I prefer the guy to make the first move because I’m shy, but if I liked a guy a lot and he didn’t make the first move, I would gear up my courage and approach him.
14 Reply- 1 y
You seem female
- 1 y
@blackeagle007 I am female. But I try not to let myself get chained in by traditional gender roles.
- 1 y
I just want to meet an independent woman. That’s it. At my, way past the point having kids. I’m too old
- 1 y
My age I mean
- 927 opinions shared on Dating topic.
m 1 yFrom what I see, only conservative women seem to think that, because they believe in gender roles, just like their male counterpart?
Women have been trophies or items, to conquer, trade or rape for millennia. So it's likely this story line leaves cultural traces, considering how much it has been recounted. Even for those wanting to get rid of them.
00 Reply 388 opinions shared on Dating topic. I don't, and... I'm married to a guy I made the first move on.
50 Reply2.1K opinions shared on Dating topic. I dont think that. Its better if women make the first move
50 Reply
1 yBecause making the first move means you’re confident in yourself. You aren’t afraid to take risks and be bold. Why wouldn’t you want to make the first move?
13 Reply- 1 y
Women do not seem to realize men have feelings. They reject men like it doesn't have a lasting effect on them. I think if a lot more women made the first move, they would find true love.
Hey chief, rejection is a part of life. Get used to it.
1 ybc that would give the guy a high ego , plus guys think it's slutty
11 Reply- 1 y
No, it would let him know she likes me by asking me out and it would alleviate his fear of rejection.
853 opinions shared on Dating topic. Very shy, soft spoken, doesn’t do well in crowds or social gatherings, which basically means the whole premise of a date is difficult and awkward.
10 Reply3.9K opinions shared on Dating topic. That's the standard y'all set for yourselves, and made it clear for decades that women shouldn't make the first move. So, that's on y'all.
10 Reply794 opinions shared on Dating topic. It's not as much that they feel that it's a obligation but that there is a considerable surplus of single men on the dating market so women don't have to unless if they want to date someone specifically.
10 Reply- 463 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yI prefer when the man is in control and leads from the beginning.
22 Reply- 1 y
You seem female
2.1K opinions shared on Dating topic. Because it is
Other men do it without complaining
So women don’t need to consider any alternative
It is what it is
Just make the move and stop complaining about it. Easier that way00 Reply
Anonymous(25-29)1 yCause as “MEN” you should be planning the date making the first moves its literally how its designed. Women just need to pick and choose which guy they like and just exist- its mens job to take care of stuff, and a real man would totally be more than happy to take up this and take care of it!!! Anyone who doesn't want to just need to go out and date guys itself if you wanna be treated like a girl!! Just think about it if men who doesn't wanna put effort started dating men!—— you wouldn't have to make the first move plan anything or buy anything the guy would be doing that you could just sit back and relax. Thats a better option for “boys” who dont wanna make the first move or put effort
26 Reply- 1 y
This is totally ludicrous. It has nothing to do with effort whatsoever. It has to do with knowing that they like us, and we will not be rejected. A man would obviously still plan and pay for the date. Gender preference has nothing to do with women taking the initiative to make the first move.
- 1 y
This is the MHO. 👍
Opinion Owner1 yIf women aren’t interested in a person they just kinda leave you hanging- dry texting and not showing any interest in the conversation thast it end of story
Anonymous(45 Plus)1 y1) they are scared themselves
2) they like men to act 'like men' and take charge
3) some women can tell if you are genuinely interested in them if you pursue/dont pursue them enough.
10 Reply
1 yBecause women are to shy and timid for the most part. They lack the motivation to push boundaries.
21 Reply- 1 y
What they do exceptionally well is to show off and brag about themselves to their freinds or public. They dont innovate.
Anonymous(18-24)1 yI don't like the kind of guys who don't make the first move.
31 Reply- 1 y
...👍
- 1.2K opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yBecause men are taught to be the aggressors in a relationship, while should a woman make the first move, even in 2025, she can be thought a sl*t.
10 Reply - 619 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yMany women don’t feel that way. A lot of women prefer the male person to make the move. These women are usually more traditionally feminine. Many women are comfortable, and more than happy making the first move.
10 Reply 5.9K opinions shared on Dating topic. Because women don't want to risk rejection any more than they want to risk combat or hard work or many other unpleasant things.
20 ReplyPersonally:
1. I’m really shy
2. I’m insecure and assume I’ll get rejected
3. I don’t want to have the fear of this guy bragging to his mates that I’m “obsessed with him”.20 Reply
1 yIts natural that they feel that a man should take the lead. A man is suppose to be strong, and confident, not weak and shy.
10 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)1 yWhy do I get the feeling that men will always be stuck with this role or burden or tradition for all eternity I'd say there's a better chance of dinosaurs coming back to life than there is of women making the first move or asking men out in the masses or droves just as much as men do to women.
Hence why the wizard Community will always be male-dominated
00 Reply- 924 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yNo women make it with eye contact
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SBOtj1RmaUE10 Reply
Anonymous(45 Plus)1 yIt's to do with rejection
In my humble opinion it's to do with the fact men require an erection to perform
If a woman approaches a man, a man can't fake things he must be able to get it up
A man, other hand approaches a woman only if he can perform. That part is established00 Reply
1 yMaybe because until now men always were the choosing side, so they was doing the first move. We see it in movies and read about it in books.
10 Reply3.7K opinions shared on Dating topic. Because they are terrified of even the thought of rejection.
00 Reply
1 yBecause women don't and if they do well ur one he'll of a guy
00 Reply- 1.1K opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 ydont hate the player
hate the game40 Reply 18.1K opinions shared on Dating topic. Most don't. I am not sure where you heard that hooey.
00 Reply
1 yBecause it is.
22 Reply- 1 y
Who says it is? Women who think they are entitled to rejecting men because they do not understand the pain it causes us. More women need to put themselves in the position of the man and I guarantee less women in the world would be single. We as men may like certain women but are too afraid to ask do to humiliation and rejection. However, if she were to ask us out, we would say yes because we know she is interested.
- 1 y
You're 43 and you still think this way? Women don't have some secret plot to humiliate men by rejecting them.
Anonymous(25-29)1 yWhy don't we make the first move? Because we don't have to. It's just the way it is.
23 Reply- 1 y
It's nature, a man's natural role.
- 787 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yBecause they’ve been trained that way
30 Reply 340 opinions shared on Dating topic. no masculine man would ever demand a woman make the first move. this is how you know a guy is a beta male
12 Reply- 1 y
Correct! So many wussy men out there. What is their problem?
- 1 y
Where did all this Alpha and Beta nonsense come from? A male is not to be classified by whether he takes control or not. That is what we call a Control Freak. A male shows the woman that he likes her, and then she needs to do her part of what should be a true 50 / 50 split and ask him out.
1 yI think it’s a cultural thing, there’s no reason women can’t
10 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)1 yBecause of the damn patriarchal upbringing.
00 Replybecause it is
10 Reply4.5K opinions shared on Dating topic. Tradition
32 Reply- 1 y
Not tradition. Nature. This is a man's natural role that he is designed for by nature.
- 1 y
@MementoMori_ not in humans. Since we developed a language.
Anonymous(36-45)1 ybecause nature and reality isn't fair
10 Reply- 652 opinions shared on Dating topic.
1 yMisandry
10 Reply 6.4K opinions shared on Dating topic. Tradition
11 Reply- 1 y
Not tradition. Nature. This is a man's natural role that he is designed for by nature.
1 ywe dont
10 Reply
1 yIt's nature.
00 Reply
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