Why do men have to have their "lives put together" in order to date?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

in order for a man to be succesful in life he must look good, have strong character, strong core values, work a decent job, a solid income and have other assets that signal high value.

a woman in the other hand can be at the worst stage of her life. not have anything, even be a bum but if the man who already has his life put together sees her and thinks she's hot then he will not think twice in giving her a chance.

till then I'm not complaning, just like rain no rain deer complain about being shot at during hunting season. but at the same time I find this kinda fascinating.

[Lliam]

From 16 to 26, when I still lived at home, worked various low-end jobs, and only had a car, I had no trouble getting girlfriends. And every girl I chose to be in a relationship with was really nice and looked amazing. But they weren't gold digging Barbies who were all about consumerism. I was picky about my girlfriends but there were still plenty to choose from.

I was fit and slender but I didn't have a sculpted gym bod. I surfed, skateboarded, played frizbee and other sports, backpacked and was very active. And something else I had going for me was, I was a lead guitarist and vocalist in garage bands. I had long hair and looked like a rock star.

Even in my 30s, when I was established in my career, had a good income and assets and a regular haircut, I had amazing girlfriends.

By the way, none of my girlfriends were virgins and they were all on the pill, but they weren't promiscuous. They were picky about their boyfriends and wanted close, monogamous relationships. They wanted to be in love.

I didn't hang around with girls who were looking for arrogant, urban Chads who wore expensive suits, drove flashy cars, and thought only about money and dominance.
I think there is something wrong with guys like that. Only consumer minded gold diggers go for such guys.

So I disagree that guys have to have their lives together before they can freaking date.
And you don't have to plan to get married just to date a good woman.

I finally married a woman who was a high end hair and makeup artist. She had made the final cut for the Cincinnati Bengals squad after high school, worked for an airline for a while and traveled. Then built her business, became the west coast regional training supervisor for Paul Mitchell Inc. Later, she did hair and makeup at a high end salon on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.
She was also a professional photographer, did portraits and weddings, and worked on photo shoots for Hollywood celebrities.

When we met, we had both lived full and fulfilling lives. We had both had relationships in the past but neither had been married or had kids.

I married her because we got along great, had similar values, and shared common visions for out future lifestyle.

We have been married for 29 years, own a cozy home on 30 gorgeous acres in a peaceful rural area in northern California, have a small orchard and grow veggies. We have a grid-tied solar voltaic system and our own well.

The last thing we are interested in is living the urban lifestyle and wearing high fashion clothes. We are into peace and comfort.

The last thing I'll say is, nobody ever has their life totally together. There are ups and downs. Shit happens.
And, while some people focus only on materialistic things, they forget to continue growing into good human beings. Life is about continual personal growth.

In the end, I disagree that good women are looking for guys who already have their lives together. They want guys who are fun, treat them well, have energy, ambition and potential.

[WindAtMyBack]

They don't. This is the same thing that comes up all the time on GaG. But it's just not true.

All you have to do is go down to the poorest parts of the city and look around. There are poor couples everywhere. That's because what you say isn't true.

Or you could look at simple statistics. Something like 95% of the population get married at least once. Out of the ones who don't get married, some of them are by choice. That means poor people get married, ugly people get married, lazy people get married, short guys get married, guys with small dicks get married.

That doesn't mean they are married at any given time. It means they get married at least once. Which means they are capable of dating and having relationships.

"the man who already has his life put together sees her and thinks she's hot then he will not think twice in giving her a chance."

Yes, this is possible, and I'm sure it happens. Richard Gere and Julia Roberts in Pretty woman happens - to one out of a million people.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Thank You. Dudes on GAG got this Disney world view BS going on.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy damn wtf you two sound exactly the same, is this your 2nd account?

is crazy how the two of you are saying the Red Pill uses “minority experiences,” but your entire argument is based on a small sample of poor couples in your local area — as if that disproves global dating trends.

The Manosphere doesn’t rely on just anecdotes — it analyzes macro data, global mating patterns, female selectivity on apps, divorce stats, and observable behaviors across cultures.

Hypergamy, female mating strategies, and male burden of performance aren’t “internet lies” — they’re evolutionary realities that just happen to be more exposed in the West thanks to tech and open sexual marketplaces.

If you’re going to say “Red Pill is wrong,” you’ll have to bring more than “but some bums near me have girlfriends.”

[WindAtMyBack]

"but your entire argument is based on a small sample"

I stopped reading after this. You don't seriously call 95% of the population a small sample do you?

Dude, you are wrong. You are just a whiner, like all the other whiners on this site. What you say is just plain wrong.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@WindAtMyBack unless you can move at the speed of light I doubt you've lived all over the world. so there is no way you can speak for 95% of the world's population

also just because someone disagrees with you does not make them "whiner" this is something that true whiners when shit dont go their way. just letting you know

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Dude, there's no shame in admitting you're wrong.

Drop the ego. It's embarrassing.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy you're projecting again. people who assume their life reflects the whole entire world are the ones with the huge egos

[WindAtMyBack]

" I doubt you've lived all over the world. so there is no way you can speak for 95% of the world's population"

Huh? You think I came up with that number? Wow!
All I did was pass it along.

Think what you want. But your shitty attitude sure isn't helping you with women.

[Zionne]

You’re right, it’s an interesting double standard. Society often expects men to prove their worth through stability and success, while women are often valued first for appearance or charm. It’s not entirely fair, but it reflects deeper social norms about gender roles and what each is “supposed” to bring to a relationship.

[Flower7]

This is the men’s’ choice. There have been times that I tried to date guys but they refused, saying they want to be more successful first. I would have been okay with them how they were but they acted like they needed to be perfect.

[Rei13]

Apparently you haven’t seen many men in the real world. Personally I think both men and women should have their shit together before getting into a relationship but plenty do not.

[Finchie40]

Because it’s Power to the Hoof , most men crave the hoof 😂

[blueonblack22]

It’s very simple. Unlike women, men are NOT special just for existing. We are only valued by our agency. Our ability to provide and protect. Our ability to please a woman in and outside of bed. Our ability to impact a woman’s social status (and women typically try to date “up”). But if we don’t fit those criteria we are expendable.

While women on the other hand get a shoulder to cry and someone else to blame for their romantic failures e. g. obese women blaming “fat shaming” vs. doing the actual hard work to get their fat asses in shape.

But again there is a reason why the news says “women and children” when it comes reporting on tragic war casualties. But as for the innocent men…tough luck.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

I agree, its just sad that a lot of men are willing to share these values with those women who have failed romantically themselves

[aceleon]

dude, you are either spending too much time on internet and have a sucky social circle with old woman who tries to find someone to drop themselves and their life burdens to or you are a troll.
provide and protect? protection is debateable but providing is for prostitudes.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@aceleon you literally called ALL women prostitutes. no woman out there is going to give you the luxury of committing and fucking you unless you PROVIDE back to her

till then if that was your intention then yes I agree with you all the way

[aceleon]

sorry dude but you are not living inside the real world, do you know how many woman commits to broke guys? do you think only the successfull people gets to breed or something? i don't know how your mother treated your father but i assure you that as long as you are not a boring incel most woman pretty much doesn't give a fuck about most things.
and let's assume you provide, it won't make them committed to you, it will make them liars who cheats you and uses you for money because surprise surprise money can't buy attraction.

[aceleon]

do you think the last guy that cheated on her was a successfull guy? i'm talking about most girls in general. no he was just a dude with completely unremarkable income or perhaps not even that.

[aceleon]

so sorry dude but having a thicc wallet won't make girls love you, they will only feast on your money while being completely indifferent to you inside since sorry to tell you but provider mentality guys are not attractive in any sense.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@aceleon You basically just told me:..

- Women don’t care about success

- But also cheat on guys anyway

- But also feast on your money

- But also won’t love you if you provide

So... what exactly do they want?

The truth is, you’re describing hypergamy in denial — women want the man who can provide, but who also doesn’t pedestalize them or act like a “nice guy provider.”

This isn’t about bitterness. It’s about seeing the game for what it is, not what we wish it was.

[aceleon]

dude, literally every human alive wants and needs money.
they wanting money doesn't make them want you.
let me simplify it
guy with money, access to money, nothing more, he is not the provider, he is access to resource
do you seriously believe they cheat with more successfull guys? sorry dude but you need a reality check, most woman who cheated likely cheated with someone with less resource because they found the guy attractive whether physically or personally or both.
what they want? easy, the luxury of not having to survive on their own feet like almost every creature wants, your idea of hypergamy is not evolutionally even valid because most mammal species are not even gamic to begin with, did you ever saw a male chimp bringing banana to a female chimp? no and you won't never see such a thing because providing is a human concept.
you asked what they want then? one word: dopamine
the problem here money is a separate entityn from you so with the provider shit you are not the source of their dopamine it is money.
yes there is a game out there but the game has very little to do with money otherwise the ''womans like badboys'' shit wouldn't be so mainstream.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@aceleon If women just wanted dopamine, hookup culture wouldn't be so one-sided.
If provision didn’t matter, why do women only commit long-term to men with equal or higher income?

They may cheat with the broke guy for excitement, but they marry the guy with resources for security.

You’re describing two different mating strategies — short-term arousal, long-term investment. That’s not “dumb Red Pill BS.” That’s evolutionary psychology and proven by every global marriage/dating stat.

[aceleon]

proven by marriage dating stats? wow, i didn't know we cared about such shit.
maybe because most guys have nothing more to offer to a woman aside from ''security''?
dude what commitment are you talking about, your idea of commitment is literally leeching off of someone, if this is what you understand from commitment then it is the worst thing in the world.
they don't commit to YOU they commit to a stable life, they don't cheat with the broke guy for excitement, they cheat with him because it is the guy they actually want but like you said they want their security too.
the question is not what woman wants, it is which guy you want to be?
the guy womans choose as a man or the guy woman chooses as a life insurance?
sorry dudes but you can't be both, like how a woman can't be a prude and a bitch at the same time, how you can't be black and white at the same time or rich and poor at the same time.
you either get a woman's emotions and urges or only get her logic
and female logic is seldom does males any good
you are either the choosed one or used one.

[aceleon]

so let's end this if you see being an investment as better than something to desire.

[blueonblack22]

@aceleon I’m not posting this to troll. It’s about accepting a harsh reality. Men are DISPOSABLE. We are only valuable to women if we can provide agency (they find us attractive, we have money, we go do other things for them, etc.). But women on the other hand can demand that they are treated special regardless if they provide anything of value to the man or not.

Again there is a reason why the media says “women and children” when it reports on tragedies (accidents, military collateral damage, etc.). But the innocent men are an after thought.

And I’m not saying all that to complain about either. It’s not fair but it’s never going to change. But I wish women particularly feminists could just own up to the innate special privilege they have here. But they conveniently ignore it because it goes their “women are poor victims” agenda.

[Joshydavid25]

Thats mostly internet stuff.. IRL women aren't as picky as they would seem.. I've seen women happy with shorter grumpy looking guys.. I see couples riding the trains and busses together all the time.. Granted that doesn't mean the guy doesn't have his life together necessarily.. While there is definitely truth to what you're saying and it can seem a little unfair, it's not really as bad as the net or the "Redpill" make it out to be.. Once you interact with people more you start to realize that that stuff like "Redpill" "looksmaxxing" and the like is a bit cringe and very generalizing..

People, men and women, are more complex than just to put them in boxes of what they want..

[Kingofkings1992]

They don’t lol. I have seen countless bum ass men who in relationships before. There’s a portion of truth to what you are asserting- it’s real that women are more attracted to status than men are. That’s just because of differences in how our brains are wired. Dude, please stop consuming the red pill content. It really rots your brain. Yes, men have it harder in many ways, as do women. Women have it easier when it comes to dating, they probably have it easier when it comes to receiving emotional support too. But when it comes to being respected by society as a whole? They have it way harder. When it comes to looking out for your personal safety? They have it way harder. When it comes to keeping up with your physical appearance? They have it way harder. Being either gender has some advantages and disadvantages.

[Zack-Bann]

Ironically I was having the most success with women when my life was a mess and a coin flip if I would make it or not


Ever since getting a steady higher paying job and getting in good physical shape I have a lot less time to invest in dating so my romantic life dried up quick


While I get the general premise and it’s true in theory, I think there’s more that go into it in practice: mainly dating skills and practice

[aceleon]

dude, are you sure you live in the real world.

in real world there are many fugly broke guys who dates or fucks how many womans god only knows.

as long as you are good at the flirting shit most woman is willing to look pass the other shits.

[4ngelic]

you dont have to. many men that could even considered utter 'losers' (think basement dwelling 25yo jobless nerdy alcoholics) can get pussy and gfs. being a successful man that has a good personality, is cute, etc makes it easier and can get you hotter women than otherwise, but it's not necessary to get women

[mysteriousNicholas]

@filthy_immigrant take it as a compliment of high value standing man, that women "expect" or even women "admire/allure" a man who's got his life together.

After all - switch the shoes 👟 - isn't it more alluring if a potential partner has their life together as a woman, she drives, she has her own car, she has her own place or at least isn't a doormat/a mess. True?

No one likes baggage 🛄 🛅 unless they themselves are covered in it 💩😔

[mysteriousNicholas]

@filthy_immigrant when a person adopts a "role reversal" for a few seconds - it's easy to imagine how "no wonder if someone asked someone else out, they go tick tick tick or cross cross cross ❌ ✅👍 if a potential partner has Low resources or High resources to offer"

[mysteriousNicholas]

@filthy_immigrant as simple as having a job, an income, a car, and maybe a property'. And clean and wholesome they're not reaching for the stars here ⭐✨

[InknKink]

You should read Orion Taraban's book, "The value of others". Alternatively, it's also on audible, if you don't have the time to read it, you can listen to it. I'd highly recommend it.

You're over simplifying the reality of dating. While there is some truth in what you're saying, it's a drastic oversimplification.

[HellGeist]

Because sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive. Eggs are in higher demand.

There is more nuance to it, but it depends. A man has to leverage something. Money is a very powerful leverage and fairly straightforwards.

Money can compensate for what a man lacks to a significant extent.

Money also makes it easier for a guy to literally capitalize on what he already has going for him, like looks and personality.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

you could be a high value man and still be unfertile

[Cidknee]

Things used to be REAL different. Women were looked out for until the Steinum impact in the 60s and it began to unravel more quickly. But some want it both ways i guess.

[mysteriousNicholas]

@Cidknee they're just reaching out for the stars aren't they? ⭐😔 Lol the standards are set so high ; I'll need a trapeze to slingshot higher lol 🍇😆

[mysteriousNicholas]

@Cidknee *flies me to the stars 🪃* 🤩

[Cidknee]

Have fun!

[Filthy_Immigrant]

nowadays they all want both and even beyond if they see it available

[Cidknee]

Yeah.

[katiesmuff]

Because we have and will always own the magic pussy and no matter how put together a man is, when his penis gets an itch he is willing to stick it most anywhere!

[Filthy_Immigrant]

man that’s not offensive. That’s a confession if you ask me

you literall confirmed what the Red Pill teaches:

That most women rely on sexual access as their main value, because they know too many men are ruled by their biology and lack discipline.

But here’s the thing — a man with options and self-control doesn’t chase “magic.” He makes her earn the wand.

[Jackblue]

We have different expectations in marriage. I don't have my life together right now I am unemployed. I realize therefore I am not attractive to women so I don't pursue them. It is not that women are gold diggers it is rather that being financially stable is a demonstration to them that you are responsible.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

was that suppose to be an oxymoron?

[Vegasrunner]

Great question. It's because the things that it takes for a man to be attractive must be earned. Technically a man doesn't have to put his life together to date however, he's not going to get any women anyway. The benifit of this though is that as a man you have numerous ways to create attraction where womem are limited.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

I wonder how limited women would have it if it wasn't for porn

[Vegasrunner]

@filthy_immigrant what do you mean?

[Filthy_Immigrant]

porn is the main reason why so many men have low ass standards nowadays

[Vegasrunner]

@filthy_immigrant I'm not sure I understand the correlation

[bunniesrcute]

well if its the scenario you’re describing, isn't it the mans fault for not having self respect? women dont date guys who can't handle it, because we know, they can't handle it.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

can't handle what?

[bunniesrcute]

mens ego can't handle being poor while dating.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

So let me get this straight — if a man doesn’t want to tolerate being rejected for not having money, it’s his fault for not being able to "handle it"? That sounds like you're justifying gold-digger behavior and blaming men for not accepting it.

Men aren't mad that women have standards. They're calling out the hypocrisy of being told "just be yourself" while also being judged for not already being successful.

It’s not about ego — it’s about not playing a game where you're disqualified just for being in the building phase of your life. Funny how when men set standards, they’re called shallow. When women do it, it’s just “having self-respect.

[bunniesrcute]

so you just ignored everything i said? bye, we’re done here.

[bunniesrcute]

ur ego is too high, get a job before u try to hit up 18 year old girls.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

You opened this with “we’re done here” — yet you still needed to come back and throw more shade. That says a lot.

When someone challenges the modern dating double standards, suddenly it becomes “ego,” “get a job,” or “you’re going after 18-year-olds” — none of which you had to say until you felt cornered.

I didn’t ignore your points — I just didn’t agree with the shaming and deflection. You’re proving my original point better than I could’ve.

[WhiteThought]

Because women need to feel a secure with the men they choose to date. They are not going to want to commit to a man they feel has no future, or one that cannot protect or provide for them. Does mean a man has to be wealthy, but she needs to feel that he is confident in himself, that he is ambitious, hard working, has dealt with adversity and knows how to overcome it, etc. That makes her feel safe to commit, get married, and start a family.

[genericname85]

because men are the protector of the family unit and if they aren't competent in doing that, women won't be attracted. they'll go on and on about emancipation and good for them but at the end of the day they're showing this doesn't matter for them through their dating choices.

[RavVid]

The yin yang principles are remarkably accurate. Yang, order and building. Ying, chaos and destruction.

Yin needs Yang to have something to destruct.

[Staximus]

If the woman is looking for a serious relationship that leads to marriage, then you better look picture perfect and be husband \ financial provider material. If she is just looking for sex, then all you have to do is be somebody she finds attractive.

[Awesomesauce2005]

It doesn't matter how successful you are unless you live in a mansion and you have 6 figures in your bank account. I have strong moral values and I know what I want. I'm in a better financial position than most my age and I'm on a fast road to buying property in the countryside to build a house. Im a jack of all trades and I have worked in metal fabrication and electrical services for the past 5 years

[BonzoInBitburg]

When has his life put together, dating becomes easy and he attracts much better women. Men don't have to do this but they'd be fools not to.

[mysteriousNicholas]

@BonzoInBitburg and I hold any potential woman to the same standard - to have their life together instead of being in the 💩😔

[Katebfun]

Because women have more at risk of dating a man. 😆😅

[Filthy_Immigrant]

"risk"

[beenherebefore]

Well, after a certain age no one wants to date a loser or a guy who doesn't have his ish together.

[slatyb]

You imagine that any woman can have her choice of men. But just as you can't have your choice of women, women can't have their choice of men.

[MJVillarama]

Yeah, society definitely has different standards for men and women when it comes to dating. It can feel unfair, but attraction and connection aren’t always about “having it all” either.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No such rule. Plenty of bums have girlfriends.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

a lot of bums were once the "cool kids" in high school that used to bully the nerds

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Yeah, whatever. Go to all the poor areas and you will see poor people dating or married to other poor people, ugly people dating and married to another ugly person etc.

The ish you believe in is internet "redpill" BS that isn't 99% the real reflection of the world live in.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

unfortunately the poor areas in your state dont represent the whole entire world

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

The immense majority of people in the world are poor, in fact dirt poor and are still in marriages and relationships.

Just admit you been fooled and brainwashed by the redpill BS. LOL

[blackeagle007]

Don’t pay attention to filthy immigrant. He just comes here and trolls. He’s too busy whacking off to maga and is unhappy with life. Complete description of a troll

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@blackeagle007: He actually believes in the ish says.

He's a victim of the internet and the redpill community who take extreme minority realities of dating, relationships and marriages and represent them as if its the predominant reality.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@hispanic-cool-guy I'm not telling you to pick a side but before you side with that loser you are siding with at the moment I suggest you open up his profile and see for yourself who the real TROLL here is.

" He’s too busy whacking off to maga and is unhappy with life."

this statement of his is a total projection as this is the main reason why he comes online. he stalks me and all other Trump supporter's content when he is bored out of his mind and can't get the attetion he can't get in his real miserable life of his

he says nothing but irrelevant 3rd grade insults and notice... he's 44 years old

[Filthy_Immigrant]

@hispanic-cool-guy also notice how this post as absolutely NOTHING to do with Trump or Maga. that should tell you enough.

but if you want to continue being his dopamine pimp then by any means continue on and be my guess

[blackeagle007]

Poor little lost soul filthy

[zagor]

Uh, I've known some guys with no money and terrible personalities who got women, so that isn't entirely true.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

so do I and most of them look like Jeremy Meeks or are troublemakers

[Malwi93]

they dont, nobody demands it from them, but id suggest a person to not at least be broke as they may not be able to keep up

[exitseven]

There are plenty of guys who liv on the ragged edge than manage to find women.

[jahaims]

Males are the provider and protector. If you are a fat shlub you aren't protecting anything. If you are broken you are unreliable and can't provide.

[guesswhereivebeen]

Because she don’t want to fuck in your moms house after highschool

[Filthy_Immigrant]

unless I was Jeremy Micks

[Twalli]

It's preference. More important if they're ready to settle down.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

how do you know? you dont look like a high value man yourself

[Twalli]

Good thing I'm not interested in dating you.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

wow I didn't knew you had interest in men, I guess you learn something new every day

[Twalli]

No, actually the primary reason I knew I wouldn't be interested is your gender.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

no shit Einstein. what's that suppose to be funny or offensive?

[Twalli]

Neither. I don't find guys sexually attractive.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

if you're not sexually attracted to men then why did you reply...

"Good thing I'm not interested in dating you."

to another man? are you that mentally challenged?

[Twalli]

I understand that you could think thst way, but any straight man can say to any man that they aren't interested in dating him. It doesn't mean they will date certain men.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

that makes no fucking sense. only gay men show dating interest in other men

but I wasn't expecting anything better from someone who apparently looks and sounds like a special ed dork. or are you admitting that you are coming out of the closet too?

[moviedude714]

Breadwinner or financial provider has typically been expected of men historically

[Jhon_Cobretti]

Because we are not women. Looking cute won't get you anywhere.

[Filthy_Immigrant]

I agree. but I dont think its fair that women get the easy part of the script

[Sevenpointfive]

what? reindeer? complaining?

[Xawyx-2]

I think this question is way too private.

[LiamJHayden]

I see guys who are far from that who date.

[MrOracle]

True - but they always have SOME kind of status. Maybe they are just really good looking, or maybe they are in some kind of position of power - even criminal power. Maybe they have a talent - writer, artist, musician, etc. But they all have SOME kind of status.

For all of the average guys who weren't born with model looks, don't have romantic artistic talent, don't have a job as a doorman or bartender, at a club or singles bar, or aren't high up in a criminal gang, you DO have to have your life together unless you are willing to date the lowest tier of women (and some men are).

[LiamJHayden]

@MrOracle Below average and sometimes even homeless can get dates.

[MrOracle]

Yes, IF they'll take the lowest-value women. They aren't getting even mid-range women, much less 7+s.

[Allmenrsick]

Be yourself

[Filthy_Immigrant]

I tried that back during my incel days and that is the worst advice you could give a man