To Deny an Education

[Anonymous]

There are few who would argue against the merits of getting an education. The further you go, the more benefits you often find along the way personally and/or economically. Historically, denying an education has been used to oppress certain individuals and uphold rigid class systems. No surprise, those who have or were often denied an education or given very little were slaves, peasants, lower castes/classes, those in more rural areas, girls/women, the poor, people of color/immigrants, and those in strict conservative religious systems.

Why would you deny a people the right to an education or cut them off from being able to further their own education? To answer this, you must look to those who benefit from this action. Take a strict conservative system like the Mennonites or Amish. They offer an education basically to about middle school, then there is no more formal schooling offered for most and the education that is offered, no surprise, is heavily based on bible teachings and less about things like history or geography or English lit because to teach those would invite further questioning---"where is France," for example, "what language do they speak, how do I get there?" The goal of these communities is to keep their flock within. If they start wondering about an outside world or start seeing pictures of people who look nothing like them, they may want to go see or explore for themselves.

You cannot exert total and unyielding control over people who understand the free will of an education. You see this in places like North Korea where the educational system, books, papers, tv, radio, and the internet have been heavily censored and manipulated to create a distorted view of the world, but those who have discovered it on their own in secret and educated themselves either through escape and/or self-education do as most of us do---which is understand not only the limitless potential of this knowledge, but what we can do with it.

So why should be care if someone "out there and over there" doesn't have an education? In 2021, we are a global society where it is becoming abundantly clear that no man or woman is an island. The world needs more minds and people working to help solve global issues and local ones that plague our societies. Keeping people relegated to the most basic or a poor education means we are potentially limiting the world from ideas that may help to better it or save it. Think about a space shuttle. How many collective people around the globe did it take for us to figure out how to get to the moon? How about to figure out a Covid vaccine? How about to prevent a war from happening? Each person has the ability to contribute knowledge to the future success of humanity but if we keep suppressing this knowledge, we are only ever hurting ourselves.

[Not_Average]

I have a lot of education and I’ve found that it’s been particularly useful and lucrative, but I could have learned everything I know on the internet and saved a lot of time. I still choose to go through the formality, but would prefer other options. Also, the way W2 earners get taxed the way they do in my state is ridiculous. If you want to become wealthy, I mean actually wealthy… the answer isn’t a college education. It’s to borrow money, purchase assets, and collect yield on those assets. A masters will earn you a nice life and put you in a nice neighborhood, but you won’t be very wealthy. You’ll most likely have to work 30 years.

[myTake Owner]

As I mentioned to someone else, I should have made it clear that I am against forcibly denying a potential learner an education. If you stop on your own, that is your choice, but if someone denies you access to an education, say by law, religious edict, etc, there in lies my issue because I can see no satisfactory reason that stopping someone's education (outside of the individual stopping it themselves) could serve any benefit other than an unscrupulous one.

[OpenWine]

sounds like Donald Trump but fortunately for him he had 1 million to start off with

[Anonymous]

People should definitely get an education. In the past the challenge may have been not having or setting up the infrastructure needed to educate people. But today--in the developed world at least--the challenge is typically people who themselves aren't putting in the time, energy and dedication to get educated. Back in the day you had to be in a school to receive an education. Today the entire body of human knowledge is in your pocket. So the problem with education today is very much one of personal responsibility. As long as that isn't acknowledged we'll continue to see sub-par results.

[myTake Owner]

My mom grew up in a very rural town where all the kids worked on farms. Obviously working on a farm takes a lot of time and energy and their parents could have easily said, school isn't important, but they basically shaped the school hours to work around the kids who needed to work. Where there is a will, there is a way. A lot of countries and people will say, it's one or the other, but it certainly doesn't have to be especially if you can get technology in their hands so they don't even have to leave to get access to teachers.

[Opinion Owner]

Exactly. The difference in educational attainment between today and back in the day is that today literally ANYONE who has the will can get it done. To the extent that education isn't happening or it's sub-par today, the problem is either a mental handicap or it's 100% a "no will" problem with the kid or the family.

[loves2learn]

Denying education is absolutely a form of oppression and control. Educated people for opinions and realize they can make their own decisions. Good take!

[Z199617]

Agreed Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.’ The quote is most likely due to writer and philosopher!

[Anonymous]

A global society, huh? Sounds like more liberal puffery than actual substance. The western world and much of Asia are in one world and then there is the third world — a world of hopelessness because these people that make up that society are not equipped, for the most part, genetically or morally to develop a real civilization.


Every place, town and village has customs unto their own. Amish don’t stop educating because they are oppressing — they actually give their adherents the right to leave and never come back — aka going English — but in a civilization based on the basics of the 19th century, a high school and college education wouldn’t serve much purpose.


Your whole diatribe is focused on oppression — another overused word that has almost no real meaning. Apparently it is the duty of those smarter, more knowledgeable and more competent to teach others and if they don’t, then they are oppressors …


Why doesn’t our society teach that immigrants are generally not the same as European immigrants? Why doesn’t our society teach that blacks and Hispanics in general have much lower IQ scores and that their growing numbers will have immeasurable consequences when competing against high IQ Chinese, Japanese, Koreans , and others in the coming years? Why do we keep teaching drivel such as “diversity is our strength” when the opposite is true? Our current education system essentially brainwashes on nearly every topic so that the average 18 year old has no concept of how the world fits together or the mendacity of the education system.


Democrats want power and diversity and exploring racial differences serves that purpose— Republican business owners enjoy cheap labor and care little about long term consequences … those in the media have no loyalty to the US so miseducation that destroys the US is no problem.


The truth is that this society does routinely miseducate and exaggerate the accomplishments of many while destroying the memories of those who founded this country. White people are treated as “just a piece” of the American pie while everyone overlooks the fact that there would be no country without them and there will be nothing resembling the US when they are gone.


This country is so oppressive that millions flee their hellhole sh!+hole counties (created by their own people) to come here.


Europeans who came here recreated Europe — Latin Americans who have come here recreated Latin America and blacks — well, they are a whole other ball of wax — creating the most dangerous and filthy places you can imagine.


You should really rethink oppression — a truly woke people wouldn’t put up with their own country being wrecked. An oppressive people would have mass deportation immediately.

[msc545]

"Genetically" - this guy is the anonymous racist.

[Opinion Owner]

@msc545 so were George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, Darwin, Jesus, and the vast majority of the important figures of history. So were most people until the 1960s when television started to work it’s “magic”… I wonder if the internet existed in 1500 and someone wanted to post about the evils of the Catholic Church and that the earth revolved around the sun — would he do so anonymously?

[exitseven]

However. all humans are born with capacity to learn. There are variations between individuals but there is no basis in saying that just because somebody is born in a particular part of the world that they are somehow inferior to other humans just based on geography. That is a pretty ignorant and narrow minded premise.

[msc545]

Does it matter?

[Floppy2112]

The world as a collective, is more educated than it's ever been. Up until very recently, particularly in the last 40 years tremendous strides have been made in quality of life for the whole planet. For the first time in the history of the world, people living in abject poverty has been reduced to under 10%. And the majority of those living in these terrible conditions are the result of oppressive governments such as North Korea and not a lack of food production.
Really, for the world as a whole, there is no better time to be alive than right now. Poverty due to lack has been all but eradicated. Education follows socio-economic conditions.
Adult literacy rate (aged 15 and up) world-wide is running at around 86%. This is stunningly good news. And it's trending up. Considering this number was around 20% 100 years ago. To quadruple the literacy rate of the world in 100 years is absolutely astonishing progress. Now, what is considered literate is a pretty low bar, they can read, some, but still it's amazing progress. And it's trending up.
So, outside of authoritarian political regimes, the material wealth and education of the average citizen of the world it is better than it has ever been. Honestly, I don't think you can ask for better progress than that.

The global society thing I am not so sure about. Global reach, sure. But people are different in different places. They don't want to be world citizens, they want to be citizens of their country, their community, their homes. Most don't give a crap about being a 'citizen of the world'.
There seems to be a massive effort to homogenize the world, sometimes by coercive force. I am not sure that's a great idea. What a boring place it would be if everybody were the same.
Nevertheless, you should rejoice because the world has never been so educated before as it is now and that trend is going nowhere but up.

[bamesjond0069]

Some faulty assumptions people have about education:

1. Formal education is superior to informal education. In many ways it isn't. Learning from a successful mentor can be far more beneficial than taking a class or earning a degree. Formal education often comes with a price tag that may not offer equivalent benefits ie a $200k loan for a philosophy degree may not make financial sense.

2. Typically the more educated one is the less impact they make on the world. If you spend 20 years in academia thats 20 less years you spend building a skyscraper or resume or political connections or whatever it is you would have been doing.

3. Education for the sake of education or for financial purposes is not the key to happiness. For example women are far more educated in the US today and earn far more money than in the past yet have the lowest self reported happiness levels ever recorded and the trend is getting worse. Education is no magic bullet.

4. Religion is moral education. To simply brush it off and say "did the Bible teach you how to work in a lab or design a building or create a marketing campaign?" Thats not and never was the point. The point is to become a moral person. So while the Amish might not know all about France, id bet they had a far better moral education than a typical public school graduate.

[Floppy2112]

@bamesjond0069" ... a $200k loan for a philosophy degree may not make financial sense." Hey! What's wrong with philosophy? huh? huh? JK.. It's not worth $200K, and you do not need to spend $200K to get an education. A local library can give you the equivalent of most degrees. Hell, we carry 98% of the worlds knowledge in our pockets.
I dare say, people would be way better off if they did study some philosophy. I mean, it's the only discipline I know of that is dedicated solely to critical thinking. Not that critical thinking is a feature of it, but it's the whole point. Critical thinking as a career doesn't pay much, but it can help you tremendously in every career path you choose.
Hell, the only academic endeavors that would not benefit from philosophical training is race and gender studies since they require the attendant be deluded all the time.

[Jay3344]

I agree that denying education is unethical, however it doesn’t mean I support mandatory education or free education. In the US my real estate taxes help pay for public schooling up to grade 12. I don’t have kids though but I wouldn’t want to live in a society where there was no formal education. In my country, state universities are discounted for in State residents and can have prices further reduced using scholarships. So being denied an education is not so much of a problem here, it’s affording an education and using the education. In my area, you have a better chance of becoming a supply chain slave or nurse than engineer or programmer. Vocational skills would probably earn a better wage than a 4 year college degree in most liberal arts fields. For example, I could apply to be a statistician working for the state but I could make more money as a freight train conductor or warehouse employee. Just shows the demand for those fields over fields that require a specific academic education. But back to your main question, yes I think it is unethical to deny people education when it’s available for any sort of prejudiced reason.

[hahahmm]

QUOTE: They offer an education basically to about middle school, then there is no more formal schooling offered for most and the education that is offered, no surprise, is heavily based on bible teachings and less about things like history or geography or English lit because to teach those would invite further questioning---"where is France,"
---
Here's an idea. Maybe parents have the right to raise their kids with the cultural values they believe are important as opposed to a board of experts running social experiments like the board that lied & said a boy in a dress wasn't raping girls when actually he was.

[hahahmm]

And the education system in the U. S. is designed to create unimaginative worker bees. Which might of made sense back when you could get a job and work at it for 40+ years, then retire with a GREAT pension. Those days ended 25-30 years ago.

[ViolettatheViolin]

There is a reason for education, but also that teachers and professors are not getting the recognition they deserve. Given that the undervaluation of pay and that this is a battle to be fought, there is no question of reducing funding, but that is always the case. Today, people leave their jobs for other things. It may be a better payment or a good benefit.
Whatever the case, we need teachers, and our future depends on deepening our minds so that we can further learn to help each other. As you develop your mind, you become more informed about life and you are not sitting there thinking about what could be. Participating in any class or project is good for a variety of reasons. It helps to move people along so that we can look at it as a whole. So start now, education will be there if you go outside and pursue your interests.

[genericname85]

education is based on performance. if people don't manage to pass the tests, you can't grant them a certificate that allows them to reach higher education.

but anyway, you could argue, that the "traditional" education system is falling apart more and more, cause people educate themself on what they need specifically on the internet these days and can often be more proficient than someone that went through a formal traditional education.

the "knowledge" you need is litterally at your fingertips. the gatekeeper to knowledge that is the education system is slowly losing it's power. which may also be due to the fact that nobody funds it.

[Evealyn]

Yeah, but some stuff is difficult to learn by yourself.

[genericname85]

@Evealyn well that is true. And there are lots of ways to get help but at the end of the day, your performance in education is your problem and not someone else's.

[Evealyn]

I just don’t like when people say don’t go to college, there’s people that don’t go to college and are successful like Steve, you can learn everything on your own. But in reality how many people are going to be as smart as Steve Jobs? It’s like Usain Bolt, you’re never going to run as fast him because you don’t have the genetics to run that fast. Sure if diet and exercise you’ll be faster than the average person, but you’ll never be as fast as Usain blot. And like Shack, he could’ve been the greatest basket ball player all of time, but he just didn’t practice. And look at all the people that practice way harder than he ever did and they still get no where. It’s also how discipline the person is too. I had 2 people in a group project that say they want to a nurse or an engineer and yet I’m the one who did all the work in the project while they just sat on their ass and do nothing. people have bad performances because it’s hard to think about what you to do the rest of your life at 18. And the only reason they’re going to college is for them to find a date, they see all their friends going and they don’t want to get left be hide, they feel pressure from family, etc. they do it for external validation and not to improve themselves.

[genericname85]

@Evealyn well sure. you can also win the lottery. you can have financial success and success in your career without going to college. though objectively, your chances of having career and economic success are higher when you do. there's lots of ways to rome and at the end of the day it's your decision which one you pick. why does it matter when others say those things? they live their life, you live yours. what they say matters to them, not to you.

and of course there's this usain bolt aspect. you can't be delusional about what you can reasonably achieve. like if you're not the sharpest tool in the shed, don't try to study quantum mechanics. and if your're short legged, don't try to be the best in basketball. sure you can set yourself those unrealistic goals but it's very unlikely that you'll achieve those goals. know who you are and hat you can do and use the resource you have for what you wanna do with your life.

it's ok when others have different opinions.

[Evealyn]

I know, it’s just I don’t want someone thinking I’m going to be the next YouTube hit or I’m going to an esports player or a streamer. They play the game for 12 hours a day living in their moms basement and then realize after 5 years that they need to go to college. I remember a guy he was saying say he’s going to be a pro player in league of legends 3 years playing and he’s still in bronze. He listen to people that told him that said you don’t need college just do what you love. I also know another who just only had 1 year left in college and he dropped to play Cs go or something like that. And he had no job and still hasn’t finish college and it’s been 8 years later. I asked him what he’s been up to he said just being a bum. He only has to finish one year. I just don’t want people to become delusional. A lot of people don’t have the discipline or motivation to sit their and study on their own.

[genericname85]

@Evealyn well that's their problem isn't it? why do you get worked up about that? and maybe things go well for them. why do you assume they live in their moms basement? maybe they become the next steve jobs who litterally started in his moms garage.

[Evealyn]

I mean it’s just like yes you can make it into the nba. But are you going to be the next LeBron James? Or are you going to be the average player who they just get rid of you after they think you’re no good? You have to specialize into that one game. And a lot of them are done after 3 years in esports. And a lot of entertainment jobs are very unstable careers. They don’t get retirement nothing. And a lot of them spend a lot of their money on living a luxuries life style. Once they get rid of you, you don’t have any education, you don’t have transferable job skills, and you’re 30 years old now. Some become coaches, but a lot of them they end up drinking and falling into an existential crisis. I mean if you are sure you can do it, go ahead. But it’s a high risk. Streaming is good, but it’s so oversaturated with people that’s it’s almost impossible to make it unless you’re really good at the game or you have a very magnetic personality. What I’m saying is, yes you can make it, but are you going to able to sustain it? I’m not saying dont do it. It’s just you need to know when to throw in the towel and say yes this is going nowhere.

[Evealyn]

Yeah, but i agree with a lot of what you're saying though.

[genericname85]

@Evealyn if you're 40-50 and you lose your job, it's often the same for people who went through college. cause they are so long out of the education they had and just working for that particular company that no other company can use them. i know that cause i have been working in career rehabilitation before. the times where your education paves the way for your entire life are over. educations get outdated and obsolete quicker by the day.

[PAcc92]

We are not a "Global Society" keep that nonsense to yourself.

Also most "Education" is indoctrination, our public schools and Universities don't teach much of anything useful. We're literally giving people useless and moronic "Gender Studies" degrees and kids don't come out of public school with basic knowledge of how our country works.

If you're talking a real education (Math, Science, etc. HARD sciences based on facts, no politics) then yeah that's great. Don't teach kids what to think, teach them how to think for themselves.

[Surely]

Some of the greatest contributors to society and the world, never went to college or finished high school in some cases.
I haven’t been in school for a number of years. But I am told that cursive writing isn’t taught anymore. I guess texting with your thumbs is quicker.
Apparently math doesn’t need to be taught. Account of the computer in your pocket. AKA the cell phone.
If history is taught apparently no one listens. Because it seems that people haven’t learned from past mistakes.
English doesn’t need to be taught because no one sticks to the guidelines of proper English anyway.
Economics must have never been taught to some of our politicians.
So is today’s education worthy of the money spent on it. Bring back the 3 R’s and go from there!

[Seangreen]

What's an education anyway? Most of the time it's indoctrination. Real education begins at home or from doing something skilled. This is why college graduates have a hard time getting a job, they went to school but never did anything. I'm a drop out. I never had a problem getting a job and was never even asked for my resume because I know a skilled trade.

[myTake Owner]

I should have probably clarified my point in this----I don't think education should be forcibly denied or stopped by an alternative individual other than the one doing or having the opportunity to learn. My brother left high school, started a job, and didn't go to college until he was in his 30s. I don't think everyone has to have the same cookie cutter path, but when you have say a law that says once you turn 12, you can no longer be educated, I find that odd that someone is stopping you because it's usually for ulterior motives rather than in your best interest.

[Seangreen]

Well nothing's free even if it's advertised as such. If it's not who you know or what you know you better be willing to pay for it

[Adam1978]

You shouldn't be denied a education you want. But you should be able to find your own path in life and not be required to hold a degree. So you should have the choice for learning your skills your own way as long as it does not risk other people life. Ie we don't want selftought doctors. That hasn't been confirmed to meet the requirements to practise the profession.

[RealMarek]

Not all people are equally competent, and not all are capable of every level of education without compromising standards. Also, if everyone obtains a college education, the value of obtaining a degree will decrease and the cost of obtaining a degree will increase due to supply and demand relationships. This is already happening in the US. In order for education to be valuable, it must be restricted such that not everyone who wants it is able to obtain it.

[doopayo]

Capitalist logic is fucked

[RealMarek]

@doopayo The law of supply and demand is what it is. You don’t have to like it. Also, it is not capitalist logic, per se. It is inherent in human action.

[doopayo]

College degrees have gotten more expensive over the years and you really think it’s realistic that most people my age will probably never be able to pay of their debt? Even my mom who’s 45 is still paying off her college debt, education is a human right. There’s no reason why people have to be rich in order to afford higher education

[RealMarek]

@doopayo The high cost of college degrees is not due to capitalism. It is due to government guaranteeing student loans, providing grants, etc. The supply of money available for college increases, so the colleges raise tuition. It is simple inflation. Why is this allowed? Colleges are tremendously powerful politically, so largesse is directed to them. Not good, but nothing to do with capitalism.

Education is not a human right. It is good to be educated to a level appropriate to one’s capability, but it cannot be a right because it requires the labor of other people to provide it, and people have no right to anyone else’s labor. If it is a right, it would be morally acceptable to force teachers to teach even if they were not willing.

[noohair]

Ok, I see your point but today, an education comes with indoctrination. Free thinking is not taught. The Classical Liberal Arts education that allows for different opinions and a right to speak opinions freely has be replaced with progressive indoctrination and only one correct point of view. That is a communist model where only one point of view is correct and anyone that does not follow the party is a subversive.

[notwoke]

well, fortunately, there's virtually no one in USA old enough to still be still alive and of working age who was "denied" anything except by their parents, so no one has anyone to blame but themselves and their parents anymore. We've moved on and don't have any room or tolerance for victimology. the taxpayer is not responsible for your woes

[myTake Owner]

The world includes more than just the US and there are still some communities in the US who stop formally educating students long before high school.

[Djaay]

To deny that the educational system is worthless and politically driven through political correctness which is basically a indoctrination , is even worst. And regulated through (the error of judgment ) . The standard for all schools now which is artificial common sense.

[jshm2]

You're confused

Few would deny a schooling, not an education. You don't understand the difference and thus your assertion is moot.

[myTake Owner]

Then by all means, enlighten me...

[DCooper]

All good reasons to push for school choice and voucher schools; especially that second to last paragraph !

[Andres77]

And then we have those who are given a free education and waste it.

[myTake Owner]

I think a lot of kids slip through the cracks because they are bored. Traditional schooling isn't designed to cater to all kids, and alternative schools or private schooling where there may be more choice in the learning style is often super expensive or not always available. Although I loved school, I went to a brand new middle school that had a flexible learning style with more emphasis on experience, and it really made a lot of lessons that could have been droned into me out of a book, come alive. I wish more people had those types of opportunities because I think not everyone who "wastes" their education is doing so purposefully.

[bigslab]

Some of the stuff I was taught in school did not do me any good in my present life, high school is a joke

[myTake Owner]

I agree, not everything you learn is a valuable gem in life, and I don't know your personal situation, but let's assume that there is/was no one putting a road block to you furthering your education on your own if you chose to---you could study what you want and do things you find interesting. This is not the case for a lot of kids or adults alike. They are told either they must stop formal education or they aren't allowed to go further. We take for granted that we can even learn as much as we do.

[imfreeze95]

Every child should know how to read write and do
Math they should then be able to teach themselves a lot and be allowed access to teachers and books