We always hear about white-washing, but why is black-washing not considered bad?

[Cammy137]

We always hear about white-washing, but why is black-washing not considered bad?

Whenever a white actor portrays a non-white character, or the original culture is ignored in favour of white (usually American) actors, people complain about white-washing.

Yet when characters who are quite explicitly white are portrayed by black actors, that's a progressive step forward.

In your opinion, is this fair?

I'm not asking whether it happens or not, because it definitely happens in both directions, but the former is perceived negatively while the latter is perceived positively.

Let me give you another example: when movies or games don't include enough black people (despite being based on a culture that is predominantly white), its a bad thing. But movies that are almost exclusively made up of black actors are acceptable or not questioned at all.

Where do you stand on this debate?

#Race #Politics #Movies

I think its fair. White-washing is bad while giving black actors roles is simply balancing things out.

I think its unfair. If white-washing is bad, black-washing should be viewed in the same light.

Lets let people make movies with any race and simply stop focussing on the issue.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Give me examples of whitewashing that are from the 21st century?

Black people were never knights, suites or anything of the sort.

Also Greeks were never black. I see it's popular to portray Romans and Greeks as multicultural and always throw tons if black people into these movies. Black people barely interacted with ancient Greece or Rome.

Also, most moors weren't black, they were Berbers!

[YHL6965]

I think any kind of washing is an issue when it comes to historical events/context. Otherwise, I don't really care.

[hellionthesagereborn]

The hypocrisy angers me more then anything else, either its bad in which case its bad when every one does it or its not. I'm actually fine with minority actors playing traditionally white roles IF they are doing something different with it (i. e. not a strict historical or period piece or based upon actual people), and if its done because the person in question was right for the job and others who tried out for the role where not as good (for example (whether you like the movie or not) the daredevil movie casted Michael Clark Duncan as the kingpin. I saw no issue with that because quite frankly its a unique physical look, to be towering over every one, to look chubby yet at the same time muscular while also being able to act and present the character in a way that does it justice. He could do that (one could argue the writers couldn't but he was not the issue) so it was a reasonable swap). However the current wave of this stinks of politics and that's what I ultimately have the biggest issue with.

[Dongtai]

It’s not considered bad because it’s not as damaging. White washing isn’t just in America it’s global. It’s to the point where it affects the way people perceive history. Egyptians were not white. Jesus was not white.

When actors that were explicitly white are portrayed as a different ethnicity, it isn’t an attempt to paint history a certain way or “wash” anything. It’s an attempt to stop the white narrative. It’s an attempt at moving away from an era of racism that’s so deeply ingrained in America that it’s become subconscious.

Black washing (the term you used) isn’t washing. It’s self-awareness that the world needs to recognize everyone and that it’s OK if someone isn’t portrayed as white. It is also a choice (a good one) to recognize that it’s OK if someone isn’t portrayed as white.

Simply put, it’s not considered bad because it’s an action made with a good intent where as white washing was a blatant attempt to disclude any race that isn’t white from history and acceptance on the basic human level. Maybe some day the era where nobody cares about skin color falls over the human race.

[Inexpensivefurniture]

I think it's a non issue. I'm a white guy and I can watch pretty much any movie and see other white guys as the main characters. I'm not lacking for representation. But a lot fewer movies have black/Asian/Latinx/etc lead actors, meaning less representation for anyone who isn't white. So when those few roles that should be given to POC actors are given to white actors, it's understandably frustrating. Most of the complaints about white washing I've seen are in regards to white actors portraying characters based on historical figures who were not white (like white people playing Cleopatra). Or of non white characters being played by white actors as if they are in fact not white (Johnny Depp, who is white, playing Tonto, who is native american)
Whereas I have never seen a historical white figure portrayed by someone who isn't white. And of the very few movie remakes where a formally white character is played by a POC, they never act like that black/Asian/Latinx/etc actor is playing a white character. The impression I get from most of these remakes is "Hey this is an old movie/fairytale/comic book and it was written back when most writers didn't care about accurate diversity in their stories and therfore made all the characters white/men/straight but we wanna remake this in a more accutate way and we acknowledge that in this story it's really unlikely that there would be no POC/women/LGBT people so we are gonna make some of the characters different to better depict reality"
In the end, if you don't wanna watch something because it was remade with a formally white character being playing by someone who isn't white, you don't have to watch it. But you can acknowledge that a lot of people, especially little kids, now get to see people who look like them in some of their favourite stories and that's really cool

[SuperManiac]

I'm in favor of simply being entertained when I watch a film instead of ruining my enjoyment by obsessing over the choices in casting. That said, it does seem to me like all this focus on being progressive has made some writers timid when they portray minorities.

I tend to notice it more in how they write women instead of characters of different races. I sometimes get the impression that the writers are afraid to make women look like they need help from time to time (especially from men), or show them hurt really badly, or things to this effect. I don't think fear of upsetting certain demographics can motivate good writing.

But at the end of the day, I just want to be entertained.

[SuperManiac]

Fundamentally I think this type of fear I sense from writers actually does a disservice to any minority characters since their timidness might make their performance and characters dull and uninteresting. Meanwhile, if they're ballsier writing, say, white male characters, then the white male characters and actors will seem more interesting because the writers are writing them without being motivated by fear or political correctness.

[SuperManiac]

There's a general kind of broader phenomena I've seen outside of films with a focus on being PC. It tends to most hurt the minorities they intend to help. I've seen workplaces transformed through PC into environments where people feel like they're walking on eggshells, and what that tends to do is divide people more and talk more behind each other's backs, typically to the benefit of the dominant group of people there at the cost of minorities. So I don't think focusing so much on political correctness helps anything. Apologies if that was a bit tangential, but I don't want progressivism to affect casting or writing choices. I'm okay with a black James Bond or a female Jane Bond whatever, but I don't want the writers to be afraid when they write such a character because I want to see them written well.

[Shuri]

Because when minorities are cast, it's usually because they genuinely are good actors and, in general, there are significantly less opportunities in Hollywood for minorities of really any race than there is for a white people. It's taking what little opportunity there is for the minority and giving it to the majority when they don't need it. Besides, whites in America have a history of retelling stories so that they don't like bad such as Pocahontas. That is so not even the story but Disney told it that way anyway. 'White washing' is associated with 'telling a story that makes white people look like heroes because we genuinely believe white people are the saviors of the human race'.

Plus black washing isn't a thing.

[Cammy137]

Shouldn't it all be based on the individual rather than a race? Isn't it racist to say that a person of a certain race doesn't deserve an opportunity simply because of the success or actions that others of the same race have/perform?

[Shuri]

That, too. But historically, minorities were denied opportunities simply because they were black. That's not happening as much now. Unfortunately, white people don't seem to get that. Like the girl who is playing Ariel in the Disney live action movie is an amazing singer but all people can see is that she's not a red head and she's black. But Ariel being white isn't important to her storyline unlike Mulan, Pocahontas, and Tiana.

[Cammy137]

So provided a character's race isn't essential to the storyline, you don't have a problem with them being swapped for someone of another race?

[Shuri]

Yes and no. Sometimes the original writers of a story make a character a certain race because it adds diversity or maybe a trait the is mostly associated with that ethnic group. I write all of the time. My main characters are usually black or mixed race women. I did that because you don't have a lot of stories where this is the case. If anything I wrote became a movie (long shot) and they re-casted them as white, I'd be pissed because there are traits in that character I like that is associated with their ethnic group. So if they did a live action for Frozen, I don't think Anna or Elsa should be black. Same with Merida.
They should stay white. It wouldn't effect the story line, but it wouldn't make sense just because of the personalities of the characters and where they live. Or the Muses in Hercules should stay black because they're supposed to bring a 'gospel soul' vibe, which is mostly associated with black culture. It wouldn't change the story line, but it would change the character's personality. But Ariel I don't think it really matters. It depends on the movie.

[Cammy137]

Yeah that's fair. Can't argue with that!

[bolverk]

Think about the recent film 'Dunkirk' about how Germany advanced into France, trapping Allied troops on the beaches of Dunkirk.
With the wing-nut film critics and reviewers complaining that their were no roles in the film for POC actors, when it was obvious to any who had studied history that there were no POC military or civilian at Dunkirk, what did they want the film makers to do? Rewrite History?

[wankiam]

i know its about time they portrayed jesus as a black man but the rest of it is hyperthetical because as you have found yourself im sure, there aren't any examples of it... anyway if it did happen ofcourse its bad form but then so is able bodied actors playing disabled ones. did anyone see speechless? what a refreshing change that was

[Cammy137]

I think anyone should be able to play anyone. I don't think gay actors have to play gay roles or disabled actors have to play disabled roles or trans actors have to play trans roles. Actors bring more to a movie than just acting, thet bring status.

[wankiam]

thats true but it sad as fuck when descrimination creeps in and you can't say in never does because it has done since the days of shakespeare

[Cammy137]

Sure, I certainly don't think people should be turned down based on that, I just don't think they should be hired solely for that either.

[wankiam]

yeah i can concur on that... like i was trying to explain to some one just a couple of days ago... this will all level out soon enough but at the moment its like steering a boat for the first time... as you turn from the riverbank you soon realize you over steered and are now heading too far toward the other bank. takes a while to get it right

[alohaahyes]

I don't really care but i also dont like hypocrites. I think it should only matter in historic movies and books. I would be weirded out if i saw a movie about Harriet Tubman and the actress playing her isn't black. Or if i saw a move about Benjamin Franklin and the actor playing him isn't white.

[BCA6010]

Yeah it's bad, but for example "ghost in the shell" got slammed for this, but anyone who is familiar with the lore of that series knows that the lead character had distinctively white/European features on her cybernetic body despite having a Japanese name- so the lead casting actually made perfect sense.

The "black washing" is practically a joke at this point, because it's being done solely to appease a specific crowd of SJWs, not for actual fanbases.

[JDavid25]

Because there are thousands of "White" characters out there.. We see them all the time.. Most times with them replacing a "White" character with a "Black" character, that character don't specifically need to be "White" especially if it's a fictional story.. Plus "White" washin has a long history.. Whereas what you call "Black" washin is just a few characters here and there who (most likely "White" directors) feel don't need to be played by somebody who is "White"..

[jayden888]

So Game of Thrones had very few black characters, nobody complained. I think characters should just be based on the closest resemblance they had to the actual person. The reason "black-washing" even exists is because a black kid didn't grow up recognizing with characters like Santa Claus - so black Santa Claus came.

It's irrelevant to me if it's not a movie. But it it's a movie, they have to resemble the actual character and act good.

[Cammy137]

People actually did complain about that, and George R. R. Martin was accused of being a racist as a result.

[jayden888]

Good thing he didn't make a big deal of it. A person may have preference (George R. R. Martin maybe too). But it's irrelevant because it's their art work (so they have the freedom of expressing).

Sure Hollywood does mostly kill the black person showing them to be some martyr or an emotional fool. And Game of Thrones, sure the rulers from Dorne were all insignificant and not present in the end. Grey Worm and Melisandre played main but supporting actors. It's just the ending he wanted, if anyone has a problem with it they can just watch something else.

Aladdin for instance didn't have many white actors because it's supposed to be about some fictional place in the M. East. I think it's all fair (even if it personally upsets someone).

[FunkyMonkee]

No, in fact, I was just talking with someone here about how they've chosen a black chick to play the part of a white mermaid. That's okay, but if they got a really white guy to play George Jefferson, that'd never fly!!
They're also "considering" having a black GIRL play the part of a white GUY!! James Bond! What are they gonna call her, Jamie Bond?

[Piteka5]

I've I'm doing a movie about vikings I expect white duds to show up, and if I'm doing a tribal adventure in amazonia I'm expecting tribal folk. It's just that. Another thing that bothers me, is Russians/Germans/French/etc always speaking English

[CassMi]

I think we really need to stop focusing on race and become more respectful to one another. I ride a motorcycle or at least a hairdryer with wheels, but one if the best things I've found is the respect bikers have for each other and I really wish all people were like that. I have no idea who is under that helmet what race or gender and I wish all people were like that in all aspects of life.

[CassMi]

Sorry not quite the same topic 🙈😞😒

[markscott]

White washing is a metaphor that came from putting white wash on a building that was in need of repair. It was a surface change, and did nothing to take care of the underlying problem. It just made it look good. I don't know what black washing is.

[BeHappy1985]

[PumpkinSpiceisnice]

I think if the culture is mostly white then only white actors should play. If culture is mostly black, Chinese or any other ethnicity then that particular ethnicity actors should play.

[Tyffen]

👏🏻👏🏻

[curiousnorway]

I think the actor should look like the historical person or the original character They're playing. So whites should play whites, blacks blacks etc. It's more about looks than which culture the actor has in real life. You can follow a Swedish culture and speak fluently Swedish, but still look black because of the adoption trend.

[Tyffen]

Which isn't a good one

[thefutureisfemale]

Because white people aren't mass-hated for their fucking skintone.
xx
~ Mrs Manson

[AynonOMouse]

It is because most of the media/movies/TV are run by liberals and many liberals hate White people.

[Ananchor]

I don't really care, even in a historical context, it doesn't really matter what they look like for the story to be the same.