Organic food: a Steaming Pile of Humbug and Bullsh*t!

[John_Doesnt]

Humbug - Deception of lying. Impostor. Pure bullshit.

Now that you understand the word humbug let's discuss why the organic food craze is nothing but deceptive advertising and a very harmful fad.

1. Does organic food taste better?

Obviously you can find organic based websites and biased liberal media (I'm liberal too, so don't say I'm a biased conservative) stating that organic food tastes better, even recent studies show that %43 of people choose organic because of the "better taste". However when confronted with peer-reviewed and non-profit independent studies it is clear that organic food has almost no taste difference between conventional food according to The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), as well as Stanford University School of Medicine. These studies found that "compared organic produce with their conventional counterparts and found no significant differences." (https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/11/04/which-tastes-better-conventional-or-organic-foods-a-tale-of-two-apples/ ) Even according to rather simple double-blind studies done by students there was only a marginal difference between people's choice of organic food taste and conventional food taste. The studies found that the only reason people think organic food tastes better is the psychological power of suggestion. You can even try this at home: buy 1 organic produce and 1 regular food, compare taste with a blindfold and you'll find that you can't tell the difference at all.

2. Is organic food healthier?

Derp:

Again: you can watch Buzzfeed or go to a .com (commercial) website to find biased studies "proving" that organic food is healthier. Yet, once again when confronted with government or scientific double blind studies such as made by the USDA on its website "makes no claims that organically produced food is more nutritious or safer than conventionally produced food." This is the USDA, they have nothing to gain or lose by siding with conventional food and nothing to gain by siding with organic food, they only care about the truth for the sake of public interest. https://escholarship.org/uc/item/0c6386bt#page-1 According to Food Policy Analyst Alex Avery: "There is no proof whatsoever that organic foods are any healthier than non-organic foods, at all".

According to another expert, Ronald Bailey Science Corespondent, who has examined over 400 nutritional studies about organic food: "It's just not the case that you're getting any more nutritional or health benefits out of organic crops."

Now let us talk about pesticides. Organic or not, all food has some sort of pesticides used on it. The benefit of synthetic pesticides is that they have been extensively tested, and found to have no effect on people. Does this mean that organic pesticides will make you sick? No. While high amounts of organic pesticides are toxic to fish, cause Parkinson’s disease in rats, and have found to be toxic to other mammals, the levels that humans are exposed to in food are harmless. Just like with synthetic pesticides. Studies have also been done on levels of bio-toxins between organic and conventional foods, and no difference has been found. https://stateofmyignorance.blogspot.com/2011/01/truth-about-organic-food.html The American Cancer Society said "There is no correlation between pesticides in conventional foods causing cancer anymore than organic pesticides". This is the American Cancer Society, completely unbiased about food and only caring about links between cancer!

3. Is it healthier for the environment?

While many claim organic food is better for the environment because the soil used is better and we're using less pesticides (but we already proved that's complete BS) the problem is that organic food uses up so much more space and land than regular food. According to yet another peer-reviewed study "the biggest catastrophe to the environment would not be global warming, but could be if we converted everything to organic farming on a global basis." The reason it would be so bad for the planet is that 2 billion people would starve to death because we simply wouldn't be able to produce enough food to feed them. Nobel Peace Prize winner Norman Borlaug, driver of the green revolution, a man who saved 1 BILLION people from starvation in struggling third world countries, says that "Organic farming could, at most, feed 4 billion people." We have 7.347 billion humans on Earth right now, so would 3.347 people like to volunteer to starve to death?

However, what about the claim that organic food uses no genetic engineering? Well, I hate to burst your bubble but almost everything in the grocery store is the result of artificial selection from several thousands of years of human intervention and farming, genetic engineering simply accelerates that process because well: we're in the fucking future. According to Ray Comfort's ridiculously stupid and ignorant argument about the banana being "an atheist's nightmare" the current yellow banana in the grocery store is completely different than the banana you would find in the wild. Most food would be unrecognizable in its wild and "natural" form. Here's a picture of a wild banana:

And for you vegans who hate using animal products: by law organic food is only allowed to use organic fertilizer aka: cow shit. Cow shit has to come from a farm which uses the cows for meat and/or milk. Your organic lettuce isn't so animal free now is it?

4. Does organic food support the "small farmer"?

I live in America, a capitalist country where people have the right to start a huge business if their small business is successful. Just like any industry there is always bound to be one that is better marketed to the public and thus becomes a big company making millions and sometimes billions. In 2000 the retail sales of organic food reached $7.8 billion dollars (monetary bias from those .com websites anyone?). The actual facts are that most produce you buy in the grocery store or even at a hippie farmer's market come from a large producers out of California. Further about half of the organic dairy products you buy comes from a single company: Horizon. which comes from Dean's Foods which is one of the largest food corporations in existence.

How can you claim that organic helps the "small farmer" when %50 is actually coming from just 1 huge company making billions off the ignorance of people during the organic food craze? But you're thinking "Oh well at least most of the organic food we buy doesn't come from out of the country in a place like China, right?" Well no, there's actually a huge amount of "organic" food coming out of China right now. Right now %20 of the soybeans and soy milk that make your hippie tofu come from China.

5. Finally: am I just an a*hole calling organic consumers stupid?

Absolutely not! I used to believe in the organic food craze too. When I go to the grocery store I don't normally have time to internet check everything I'm buying, as a bachelor I usually buy the same Hungry Man dinner and a bunch of potatoes. I'm sure the average shopper is the same. We were all just going by what the media was shoving down our throats. On the surface it appears going organic is a great idea, but once you look an the unbiased science it turns out that organic food doesn't really do anything for anybody.

Ask yourselves now:

After learning all this is organic food really worth the %50 increase in price? Is it worth spending half my paycheck on food that I could get for a fraction of the price?

[NearlyNapping]

First let me say that I'm 61 years old and the taste of modern food sucks compared to what it used to taste like. This has nothing to do with organic. It's because food today is grown for high yield, not taste. I'm not aware of any studies, but I suspect that it's not as nutritious either.

Strawberries the size of your fist taste like shit. Modern apples look like old apples, but they usually taste like shit also. It's all about yield, not taste or nutrition. Some foods suffered more than others.

"The reason it would be so bad for the planet is that 2 billion people would starve to death because we simply wouldn't be able to produce enough food to feed them"

I've been saying this for (let me count) - um, about 36-37 years when I wrote a white paper on this for college. I've said the same thing here at GaG many times also. The numbers are different, but the idea is the same. Everyone can not go organic. We NEED pesticides, herbicides, artificial irrigation, and all the other modern technologies just to keep the population alive. Even with those technologies, it's highly debatable if we can feed everyone.

" Organic or not, all food has some sort of pesticides used on it. "

Wrong. I worked on an organic farm. We used no pesticides whatsoever. The only fertilizer we used was chicken shit from the chicken farm next door. They were more than happy for us to haul it away for free. ( pro-tip - if you ever use a shit spreader, wear a raincoat because it's going to be raining shit, and lots of it )

We did use Roundup however, when we converted the land from one use to another. After the crops were planted we didn't use any herbicides. However this was a small operation. I don't know what the larger farms are doing.

I don't think organic is any healthier, at least not by a measurable amount. But if the price is not too high, I'll buy it. Not for health, but to support the industry. Like most industries, when you buy the product, you are not so much paying for that product as you are paying for future products. At least that's the way the cash flows.

I don't know if organic farming is making any progress. But I'm willing to support the industry and see where it goes. If I'm not paying too much, and the industry doesn't go anywhere, it's no big loss. But I'm willing to support the possibility that it MIGHT go somewhere.

[Bleh-___-]

This guy knows what's up with fist sized strawberries

[John_Doesnt]

You either didn't read the whole thing or read it with a closed mind. It's perfectly possible for small organic farms to not use pesticides because it's a small enough farm to go around and manually remove all the bugs. But if we want to feed 7 billion people on Earth or 300 million in America that would never work.
And as for my study on how many people could potentially be fed by organic: that was based on IF we were to cut down every rain forest, cut down every park and convert them all to farms. We'd have to mutilate the environment just to feed 4 billion.
Lastly, taste is a very subjective sense. Anybody can say organic tastes better just like anybody can say pineapple on pizza tastes great. But a double blind study shows there's no difference.

[Bleh-___-]

Lol why do you respond to everyone who disagrees with you by telling them they didn't read what you wrote? We read it.
You don't handle feedback very well.

[John_Doesnt]

@Bleh-___- he gave an opinion and I responded. It's called a debate. Debating and/or responded is "not taking criticism well".
Every myTake owner does the same thing with people who disagree. Even on simple posts like "My favorite movies" people disagree and the myTake owner will respond with why they think they're wrong.

[Bleh-___-]

I'm all for debating but we both disagreed and you came for us both with "you didn't read it/you're closeminded/you didn't even read the first part". We read it dude. Accept that we disagree with what you wrote and carry on with the debate without those comments lol

[blank_expression]

“taste of modern food sucks compared to what it used to taste like.”- Absolutely true. I grow my own food on a medium farm and sell off the remainder. The consumers always message back and say that they never tasted anything like the vegetable and fruit we grow. It is true—I can’t stand to eat grocery food anymore it has no taste. I also think that these organic growers will pull out the pesticides or herbicides in a pinch rather than lose the whole crop—I do because an infestation can blindside you and there is no other option. Also, I think that the soil gets over farmed and that contributes to loss of taste.

Also, do you still have that paper?

[John_Doesnt]

@Bleh-___- I'll say it again: every myTake owner does this. There's nothing wrong with debating over differing opinions.
Go read another myTake and see the reponses who disagree with the writer: they usually respond back and sometimes accuse the person of not reading the whole. I know this happens for sure because I've had myTake owners come after me with my response claiming "I didn't read the whole thing".

[John_Doesnt]

@blank_expression I'm still against the idea of nostalgia (you remember the good ol' days) and the subjective power of taste. Double blind scientific studies disagree and I always take their word over hersay and anecdotal evidence.

[blank_expression]

@john_doesnt---Until you actually do something real, you are only book smart--whatever strokes your world though-

[NearlyNapping]

@John_Doesnt

I did read the whole thing. You made a blanket statement that "all" food has some sort of pesticide used on it. That's simply not true.

As for sustaining the population, I was agreeing with you. I've known for 35+ years that we can't sustain the population organically.

" I'm still against the idea of nostalgia (you remember the good ol' days) and the subjective power of taste. Double blind scientific studies disagree and I always take their word over hersay and anecdotal evidence. "

You are using a study comparing modern organic vs modern non-organic, and applying it to food today vs food in the past.

It's not possible to do a blind study of past and present. Subjective "good ol days" is the ONLY way to compare the two. This has nothing to do with organic though. It was just a side comment that new produce sucks compared to produce in the past.

[NearlyNapping]

@blank_expression

If I still have that paper I don't know where it is. That was pre-computer and there was only one hand typed copy. The paper was not specifically about organic. It was about the role of modern technology in sustaining the population. Food was a major part of it though. Drinking water was also a big concern for the future.

[blank_expression]

@NearlyNapping--Thanks anyways—I am always in training. If I can ever tame the fields to a reasonable weed growth I would like to transition towards organic.

[Bezbozhnikustanka]

As you get older your sense of taste fades, I'm only 55 and I've had to wear glasses for years, we have hearing aids, but, there's no equivalent to host your sense of taste. There are speciality growers who produce old breeds, they should taste the same as when you were a kid, if they don't it's you not the fruit.

[Errhh]

Food in general from the USA will always be worse than in any other country... which is why you can take the diet of a person from another country and compare it to someone in America, and you will see that vey often the person from another country seems to have a more awful diet, yet the person from America will usually tend to be fatter... that's pecans even in the USA you'd be lucky to ever be consuming natural foods even if they claim to be organic etc etc..

For example a piece of meat from Germany compared to and exact piece of meat from USA, the one from USA is half all sugar. Wtf surpgar? Yup! While the the one from Germany is all meat... thus making the American fatter because it's mostly sugar you are consuming...

Sad but true... and the saddest part that slowly all countries are following the same path as the unites states and now you can see more obese kids than ever in other countries just as well...

So even if you watch what you eat and try to be all healthy... Soon enough all humans will resemble balls , grownups 🏀 ⚽️ And babies⚾️ 🎾 Alike! 😱🙈💁🏼!!

[Phoenix98]

Um no raw hamburger, like what you buy in the stores has 0 grams of sugar actually.

This is the most basic nutritional value for proximates alone in deal of raw hamburger in the USA. This is from the US department of Agriculture and the national nutrient database.

This is for 80% lean, 20% fat

Water g 61.84 280.51 69.88
Energy kcal 254.0 1152 287
Energy kJ 1063.0 4822 1201
Protein g 17.14 77.75 19.37
Total lipid (fat) g 20.0 90.72 22.60
Ash g 0.84 3.81 0.95
Carbohydrate, by difference g 0.0 0.00 0.00
Fiber, total dietary g 0.0 0.0 0.0
Sugars, total g 0.0 0.00 0.00

I can add the vitamins and minerals and other values if you wan to.

But the fact that you said the hamburger would be half sugar shows how full of crap you are and that you are pretty clueless.

[Errhh]

@Phoenix98 you're brainwashed by what they make you believe... and I didn't say hamburger, had I said that it's wayyyyy more sugar considering all the flour from the buns as well... but yeah back to what I did say, any niece of meat from USA is mostly sugar compared to any piece of meat from other countries such Germany being an example because Germans have a lot of meat in their diets yet their meat isn't as fake as USA meat.

You can out all the numbers you want to put and argue with them to try and say otherwise, yet the truth remains what it is... USA foods are far from authentic... sad reality but it is what it is.. 💁🏼! All for money...

[Phoenix98]

Um no I'm not brainwashed, I not only know personally several butchers but also cow farmers and nutrition is a vital part of my career and was a big part of my education, as a personal trainer from one of the finest institutes in the world I might add. So I know a thing or two about what's in the meat.

But sure if that's what you want to think.

FYI Germany is a failed country on it's last legs, overrun with immigrants and it's economy and infrastructure being decimated by poor policies.

[Errhh]

@Phoenix98 you're sooo clueless 💁🏼!

[Phoenix98]

Alright sweetheart you keep telling yourself that ^^, you and your post with has no evidence nor information to back up any claim you make.

[Bezbozhnikustanka]

When I was a kid my mother talked incessantly about the war and how food was rationed. Every time I said I was hungry she'd tell me she never had food when she was my age. Sounds like we need to reintroduce rationing. Rations shouldbvary according to how often you go to the gym.

[Errhh]

@Phoenix98 there is evidence if you care so much look into it, it's the truth... that's why so many people question themselves about how it's so ironic that it just sonseems that the diets of other countries seem so fattening yet the USA is beating almost everyone in achieving the shapes of round balls. Seriously... and a fit person from any other country doesn't try so hard to maintain a slender healthier image, while one from USA must try twice as hard to stay at a certain weight... they food industry is a disgrace and all for money... USA will always be greedy and doing whatever it takes to get more and more even if it means destroying the appearance of people and anything that comes along with it but yet brainwashing you that you NEED this and that for your own good... just like water bottled water... even when it's just the same as tap water they tell you you NEED this instead oth free water from your tap which is actually healthy for your teeth 💁🏼!

[Errhh]

@Bezbozhnikustanka no idea what you mean, but to change once appearance it's all about what you eat... the gym will not change your body if you don't change your eating habits... which is why sooooo many people still cannot lose weight or reach their goal even when they spend so much time at the gym... they need to change their diet.

[Phoenix98]

So back up what you say then and stop blowing hot air, link me the stats, the studies and the organizations. Or stop wasting everyone's time.

[lovelyhoneybones]

Organic food taste SO much better than proceed food, anyone with taste buds know that. My family went from eating foods pumped with chemicals and GMOs to eating organic, and let me tell you. My skin cleared up, I felt more energized. The food was VERY enjoyable. I wasn't the only one either. My entire family felt the same way. Milk tastes to much better and doesn't leave an awful after taste. The eggs look different and taste better. Not to mention how much better the meats taste.

Though fresh fruit is still better than no fruit, organic is still the way to go. I plan on raising my children up on organic food. They take a lot of the nutrients and nourishment out of food that we need in our daily diet. They're filled with fats and stuff that we do not need.

Organic food is also a higher quality. If you want to look forward to every meal you eat, go organic.

[Warmapplecrumble]

I feel the same way with organic food.

[Bleh-___-]

Organic food does taste better. Next time you're in a grocery store, get an inorganic apple (the size of a watermelon because of how they grow it) and an organic apple (small the way nature intended it to be) and taste the difference. The organic fruit will have so much more flavour than the inorganic fruit.
I was a skeptic too but it's legit.

[John_Doesnt]

You didn't read the whole thing did you? You didn't even read the first part. I already said that scientific studies found that people can't tell the difference. I'm not gonna trust my own senses or the senses of a few people, that's what science is for: making sure there isn't any bias.
Also, did you try the apple blindfolded so as not to be psychologically biased? Taste is one of the most subjective things in the world. Everyone has different tastes and preferences.

[Bleh-___-]

Yeah I read it. You're asking for feedback and our own experiences by posting this take, aren't you? So no need to lash out.
The first time I tried it my dad gave it to me and told me exactly what I wrote. I was a huge skeptic and i went into it with the attitude that it all tastes the same. Another time I grabbed a random apple from our fridge and it tasted awesome. When those apples ran out I grabbed the bigger ones thinking it's the same crap but it tasted so bland. When I asked my mom she said the smaller ones were organic while the giant ones weren't. It wasn't a matter of "they both have a flavor and I thinkkkk this one tastes better?". It was "wow this little one is bursting with flavor while the big one has as much flavor as cardboard". People grow food nowadays for the quantity, not the quality. So while our fruits for example, are supersized, they compromise with lack of flavor.
You should try it yourself even though you say you don't trust yourself

[Caaarl]

I don't like organic apples as much as inorganic. They don't taste as good to me sometimes I'll even bite into them and they'll have spots that worms have gotten to and stuff. (Not sure but it's like brown inside spots, Maybe a bruise but it looks different)

[Bleh-___-]

@Kaaarl regardless, there's a difference right?

[Bleh-___-]

Also what's wrong with your guys' organic apples lmao. I've never seen that here. Come, I'll give you a normal wormless apple.

[Caaarl]

Just because people can't tell the difference as to name it doesn't mean they don't have a preference. Some people might like one over the other.

[Bananaman177]

People who trust the Government deserve everything that's coming to them.

In this day and age, 2017, with the internet and wikileaks and everything out there, you plain and simple deserve the cancer. Have fun with your chemo and radiation, too. Funny how they always keep you alive right up until your money runs out, huh? The more money, the better your prognosis. Real interesting.

Rates of cancer and pediatric cancer are skyrocketing completely off the charts in just the last three generations, along with ever other disease you could care to name. I'm sure that's pure coincidence too.

The government cares about you as much as you care about your little taxpayers in simcity. They help their Monsanto buddies make a lot of money selling you D-Con instead of food.

And you're right, D-Con is cheaper than food. Go eat some of that while you're at it. Or have some fresh-caught Pacific seafood, yum-yum!

[Warmapplecrumble]

Organic food tastes and smells sooo much better.

It has so much more flavour.

After eating organic food I have really good skin, hair, nails and a natural glow. Not only that I poo so much better lol.

And I feel more full and eat less after eating organic.

[Kuraj]

Organic food sold by massive agribusinesses is not organic.
It is the same shit only marketed to stupid people to cash in on the craze.
Plenty of those ingredients in supermarket "organic" food come from the same factories in China that the "rest" comes from.

The real organic food you buy at farmer's markets.
Local, homegrown and directly supporting the small farmer.
It's not "organic certified" but 99% of it is grown using REAL organic practices.
Not only that, it's way cheaper than the supermarket "organic" food too.

As for what tastes better, Americans don't really have the authority to judge.
I have seen Americans rate big mac better than wagyu beef, if anything it only shows that Americans just can't recognize taste outside of high fructose corn syrup and glutamate.

As someone who had farm animals and has been growing own food for years, I can tell you that REAL organic food is a day and night difference from the store bought stuff.

[John_Doesnt]

Small farms can't feed 7 billion humans. So small farms are only for people who want to feel superior to those that can't afford the time and money.

[Caaarl]

Sometimes people will prefer the organic option by taste alone. So I'm not hard on people who want organic food. There are a lot of misconceptions your right but that doesn't mean the option shouldn't exist.

[Anonymous]

There's some evidence that vegetarians have a lower risk for cardiac events (such as a heart attack) and death from cardiac causes. In one of the largest studies — a combined analysis of data from five prospective studies involving more than 76,000 participants published several years ago — vegetarians were, on average, 25% less likely to die of heart disease. This result confirmed earlier findings from studies comparing vegetarian and nonvegetarian Seventh-day Adventists (members of this religious group avoid caffeine and don't drink or smoke; about 40% are vegetarians). In another study involving 65,000 people in the Oxford cohort of the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford), researchers found a 19% lower risk of death from heart disease among vegetarians.
Conclusion- Stop cherry picking stuff. John_Doesnt get it at all.

[SnowHearth]

Chemistry and biology defiene as organic any compound that contains Carbon (chemical element with symbol C and atomic number 6).

Sadly marketing twisted that meaning for profit purposes and now people don't know what really organic means.

[Browneye57]

For some things, yes. Others, no. For things that grow in the dirt, probly. For things you eat without any cooking or preparing, like berries, probly.
For things that are GMO, probly.
We pick and choose - some things yes, some no.

[HOAAH]

unless you grow and raise them in your own backyard you really don't know what goes on in growing them... and how they were really handled.

[Jackblue]

Organic food belongs in the trash.

[John_Doesnt]

Yeah it does. %50 more for something that tastes the same and has the same nutrients.

[Sabretooth]

it's all food organic? when think of inorganic- think of someone eating a crayon or something.

[Sabretooth]

most food, anyway.

[Sabretooth]

"when I think of inorganic- I think of someone eating a crayon or something"

[Sabretooth]

sorry for my bad typing-rough nights

[Love_Is_Eternal]

I think most people with common sense know that organic is healthier than non organic. The studies you quoted are flawed and are completely bogus. But keep on believing the government and all the false studies, and I'll continue to eat healthy organic food instead of food than helps to cause cancer and other diseases. Atheists really are not very smart.

[John_Doesnt]

How are the studies flawed? They are by unbiased government or Universities. Also, the cancer side pointed more to being caused by the pesticides used by organic farmers. ALL crops use pesticides.
As for you last comment I think that proves how biased your opinion is. Look up the correlation between atheism and education.

[Love_Is_Eternal]

Hoe are the studies NOT flawed? I could also quote studies that show the opposite. We can all cherry pick what studies we want. I go by common sense. Ever since people have switched to a non organic diet, cancer rates, as well as other diseases, have increased dramatically. Atheists are just very stupid and uneducated.

[Bezbozhnikustanka]

The older you get, the more lickly you are to get cancer, people live longer, more people get cancer. It's okay for a few poshos to eat organic, but, GM and pesticides are the only way tonfeed 12 billion people, within half a century there will be 12 billion people on this planet. Global warming means we'll need to engineer crops that can go for long periods without water, other areas will experience flooding, we can't all live on quail eggs and wild venison like Prince bloody Charles.

[Love_Is_Eternal]

@Bezbozhnikustanka I do not believe the myth that people are living longer. And besides, over the last few decades younger people such as young adults, teenagers, and even children have been getting cancer. People should start growing their own food like they did for thousands of years instead of paying lots of money for disease-causing foods from the supermarket.

[Phoenix98]

Real organic food is just what food was in general prior to the 1800-1900s.

[Bezbozhnikustanka]

The era of the Potato Famine that forced half the population of Ireland to move to Boston.

[Phoenix98]

@Bezbozhnikustanka Yup though Ireland's potato famine was not caused by pesticides or anything like that but a naturally occurring disease that mutated from mold in the water.

[Anonymous]

I know for a fact alkalizing the body is actually the truth got a chance to see it with my own eyes

as for the rest of it im not sure
but alkalizing the body does work

[Viranda]

True. Organic food is for stupid retrogrades tecnophobe cavernicles.

[Midget_Hug]

Organic food is like 1827 bottles of wine: Compete nonsense. Sadly I knew that right away.

[lazermazer]

I disagree with every single point.