@ThisAndThat So why, in your perception, can't guys share advice about how to maintain independence without getting mocked? Why would you frown on that?
No it's not like that. Women can come there, but they create problems when they do. MGTOW to best explain it it's men as you know, men that have been burned by women especially in divorces. So it's much like AA Alcoholic's Anonymous where men vent. And some men especially right after a burn, they come there hating on women. But in reality they are venting because they have been badly burned by the women and the system. Women see this as hate toward them which in the moment it's probably true to an extent. Some men will eventually vent it off some may not. But when women see this they begin to run off telling everybody how MGTOW is a woman hating group when it's not. That's how MGTOW made it to CNN and CNN created a hit piece against MGTOW. Some men are there for support because they know women are dangerous yet they have trouble dealing with not being with women, if that makes sense. But on the other hand, you can see what feminist are doing to men, it's obvious calling for the death of men genocide and causing our oppression IE no better example than the Gillette commercial. And you let a man go on TV or in the public reverse what feminism has said against men to be against women and you'd never hear the end of it. And not only that, the main stream media wouldn't touch it, yet feminist have the entire system of including the laws at their disposal.
@sugarchateau guys who write posts detailing their reasons for wanting to maintain independence are mocked pretty hard by girls as being weirdos, social outcasts, and feckless losers. Mind you, I don't have a problem with anyone living how they so choose, I'm just pointing out a double standard.
@ThisAndThat I feel that I understand a bit more now. My dad went through a nasty divorce with my narcissistic mother who completely bailed on him and us. She completely left him in mental/emotional confusion and pure resentment because he still loved her but she made him feel crazy and she cheated on him and was all about money- nothing he did was ever enough. She threatened she would take the kids, but never did. She just disappeared. He had to move on solo, I don't think he went to MGTOW because he had to support 4 kids all on his own. He does have issues with love when dating women, he doesn't love himself, but he can't stop going after women. So I understand guys need a place to vent and a place to be heard, because crap like this does happen. I feel honored that my dad felt comfortable coming to me and opening up to me about it, but I wish my dad did have the support of other men and felt comfortable seeking their aid as well.
The part I don't understand now, is this fear of being mocked. I believe guys should stand up for how they feel and allow their anger to be expressed, but also be willing to seek healthy solutions for themselves to bring them out of a negative mindset so they can be happy. Like guys sharing posts about what has helped them maintain their independence or guys sharing advice on how to maintain a healthy distance with obsessed girls. Guys need to support guys with guy problems. Girls need to help girls with our girl problems... because sometimes we just speak completely different languages. Then when it feels like moments where our lower minded women and men are fighting against each other, we will also step up to help each other come together. Because, ultimately, I believe we all do want to happily come together. What do you say?
Ah, that is a double standard when women do that to men, but also.. I believe people who mock others are very immature. With childish behaviors, such as mocking, I've learned that it is best to not acknowledge or feed the low energy. Those people are hurt people, that don't know how to grow and overcome their pain. Hurt people will hurt others, intentionally or not. There are lessons we all need to learn, I hope you guys don't hold back on expressing yourselves. Fear takes away joy from our lives. I would hope you guys would be fighting what can be controlled. Hurt peoples emotions can't be controlled, but our own actions and how we choose to view our challenges in lives can be controlled. At least, that is how I feel.
"The part I don't understand now, is this fear of being mocked. I believe guys should stand up for how they feel and allow their anger to be expressed..."
The reason guys fear being mocked by women is that we are in a double bind with women. If we fight back against women with any real force at all, we stand to be accused of bullying and harassment against women. We are at risk of being branded misogynists or--at worst--antisocial actors who can no longer be trusted by society. Many men have been ostracized from employment opportunities and even child visitation rights for daring to fight back against women who take us on. It's a real tightrope for us. We're told by society that we have to accept whatever women say to us, that it's a man's lot to take some abuse from women, and that if we want to avoid it, we need to work harder to not give women a reason to condemn us.
Forgive my ignorance, I guess it is easier said than done. What options do guys have then? I'm genuinely concerned, I have lots of family members that are men that I would like to look out for.
Well, I think what is happening is that there's a growing sense among men that women are fair game just as men always have been, that if there is equality and competition among people of both sexes, then there must be no gender restrictions. I think that's the real recourse here, to make things fundamentally equitable so that it's a free and fair exchange. Nothing is off limits. But change in society takes time, so there are still people who view men even saying anything negative to a woman as a moral outrage. Hopefully we'll get to a place soon where we don't feel as a society that women have the right to judge men while being free from judgment themselves.
Personally, I hope to never face the brute anger of a man BUT I trust myself that I won't be in a shady situation that will lead to that. If I get divorced in the future, I still trust that I will be mature and trust the law. I can't always control whether I'll have good timing or not, so I'll put my trust in mens desire to protect what they love and care about. I hope I remain in their grace, I do my best to keep things balanced. I can't say the same for other women, but I feel like men are capable of recognizing whose intentions are good when the women put in extra effort to understand the men. I really do want to help men, I'll try and find new ways I can open the eyes of the young women around me and hopefully open their hearts.
Society has for ages attempted to civilize the more feral instincts of men by placing all these restrictions on our behavior towards each other but especially women. Men have gone to great lengths in the past to protect women, to see to it that they were protected to the greatest extent from hazard and harm. But feminism has changed that in the past 50 years. Today, women are demanding to be "equal" to men, even though that is a nonsensical notion, like demanding that glass be equivalent to a plate. We are different and not simply interchangeable parts. But there needs to be some sort of mutual respect and trust between the sexes for society to function properly. The breakdown of this mutual respect is one reason society is unraveling and marriage and birthrates are hitting all-time lows.
I agree with the goals of feminism in underdeveloped countries. I feel like United States is fine. I don't feel underpaid, but then again.. I also don't know much about those details and I am not thinking about the women who do support 5 kids by themselves who would fight for more money. Idk? I do feel like our men protect us, but there are also a lot of greedy men that would like to control their power over us and that is kind of a scary thing. Especially when we fear getting sexually taken advantage of. I know a lot of women already have, myself included, and after that happens we kind of become emotionally broken and our souls feel lost. Women may be fighting their men, but it's a confusion of love and hate with different faces. A confusion that starts within after being devalued. Which becomes scary when so many hurt women attack innocent men... It's a mess. I honestly don't have a solution
The problem is that women conflate powerful men and abusers with men in general. Most men aren't corporate titans lording power over helpless women. Most of us are wage earners and taxpayers who are just as powerless against these forces as you. We get bullied and mistreated by the system just the same. It's only a few men who end up at the top of these power structures who perpetrate the bad, and that's because they're Machiavellian by nature, which is actually how they go into power. No, most of us are just like you, decent people who are trying to live decent lives while earning a living doing something that doesn't make us want to drive off a bridge on Monday mornings.
I dislike feminism because it seems more about pushing female superiority than actual equality, illustrated by its demonization of men, but I do understand that women face severe crises in much of the world.
Oh, then we are being selfish and only thinking of our own gender problems. So in order to change that, we need our women and men to learn how to love and accept themselves first so they have room to have a desire to understand others and to listen to others. That way we can trust in ourselves and have the confidence and maturity to hear each other out and boost each other up. BUT here I am, only able to provide my feminine touch on the topic covering the nurturing aspect and feelings... This is maybe where a man would need to come in, and use his masculine energy to apply logic and analytical strengths and plan something that considers the emotional aspect?
@sugarchateau I don't believe in mistreating women and I never have never will either. I have a very high level of love and compensation for others. I believe women should be treated equal. However the goals of feminism never was about equality. Feminism was started by Marxist with the intention to destroy marriage and the family unit, it's a communist goal is what it is in disguised as equality.
@ThisAndThat Well, i believe feminism is needed in underdeveloped countries. But in the United States, I don't see why our women are complaining. Other than their hurt from being raped, but the law can only go so far with justice. We don't want to rape our men with laws based on accusations and not enough proof. These women need emotional and mental help, I know because I've been there.
@sugarchateau In the US it's not the men raping the women, it's the women raping the men. And this is where those statistics the feminist are getting is coming from. You can't make this up. https://youtu.be/M-Dtcvqcjc8
I am fortunate and clean houses part-time for people in my towns wards where I make bank, $100 for 3 hours on weekends- I don't have to clean many in order to make what I need for bills. I have a lot of free-time after my 6 classes on ASU campus. I guess I manage myself pretty well, it also surprises me that people don't find or make time to do all this stuff.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
21Opinion
If a guy wrote something analogous to this, he would be mocked to hell and back for it.
Because guys can't share advice on how to better maintain their independence in a healthy manner?
Exactly, MGTOW is proof of this.
@ThisAndThat Forgive me, but I have no idea what MGTOW stands for.
MGTOW stands for Men Going Their Own Way. They don't want relationships or marriage.
@ThisAndThat So why, in your perception, can't guys share advice about how to maintain independence without getting mocked? Why would you frown on that?
It's because women come there and interfere.
@ThisAndThat You mean interact? I don't see what you mean by interfere or where this place is that no woman is allowed to enter.
No it's not like that. Women can come there, but they create problems when they do. MGTOW to best explain it it's men as you know, men that have been burned by women especially in divorces. So it's much like AA Alcoholic's Anonymous where men vent. And some men especially right after a burn, they come there hating on women. But in reality they are venting because they have been badly burned by the women and the system. Women see this as hate toward them which in the moment it's probably true to an extent. Some men will eventually vent it off some may not. But when women see this they begin to run off telling everybody how MGTOW is a woman hating group when it's not. That's how MGTOW made it to CNN and CNN created a hit piece against MGTOW. Some men are there for support because they know women are dangerous yet they have trouble dealing with not being with women, if that makes sense. But on the other hand, you can see what feminist are doing to men, it's obvious calling for the death of men genocide and causing our oppression IE no better example than the Gillette commercial. And you let a man go on TV or in the public reverse what feminism has said against men to be against women and you'd never hear the end of it. And not only that, the main stream media wouldn't touch it, yet feminist have the entire system of including the laws at their disposal.
@sugarchateau guys who write posts detailing their reasons for wanting to maintain independence are mocked pretty hard by girls as being weirdos, social outcasts, and feckless losers. Mind you, I don't have a problem with anyone living how they so choose, I'm just pointing out a double standard.
@ThisAndThat
I feel that I understand a bit more now. My dad went through a nasty divorce with my narcissistic mother who completely bailed on him and us. She completely left him in mental/emotional confusion and pure resentment because he still loved her but she made him feel crazy and she cheated on him and was all about money- nothing he did was ever enough. She threatened she would take the kids, but never did. She just disappeared. He had to move on solo, I don't think he went to MGTOW because he had to support 4 kids all on his own. He does have issues with love when dating women, he doesn't love himself, but he can't stop going after women. So I understand guys need a place to vent and a place to be heard, because crap like this does happen. I feel honored that my dad felt comfortable coming to me and opening up to me about it, but I wish my dad did have the support of other men and felt comfortable seeking their aid as well.
The part I don't understand now, is this fear of being mocked. I believe guys should stand up for how they feel and allow their anger to be expressed, but also be willing to seek healthy solutions for themselves to bring them out of a negative mindset so they can be happy. Like guys sharing posts about what has helped them maintain their independence or guys sharing advice on how to maintain a healthy distance with obsessed girls. Guys need to support guys with guy problems. Girls need to help girls with our girl problems... because sometimes we just speak completely different languages. Then when it feels like moments where our lower minded women and men are fighting against each other, we will also step up to help each other come together. Because, ultimately, I believe we all do want to happily come together. What do you say?
Ah, that is a double standard when women do that to men, but also.. I believe people who mock others are very immature. With childish behaviors, such as mocking, I've learned that it is best to not acknowledge or feed the low energy. Those people are hurt people, that don't know how to grow and overcome their pain. Hurt people will hurt others, intentionally or not. There are lessons we all need to learn, I hope you guys don't hold back on expressing yourselves. Fear takes away joy from our lives. I would hope you guys would be fighting what can be controlled. Hurt peoples emotions can't be controlled, but our own actions and how we choose to view our challenges in lives can be controlled. At least, that is how I feel.
"The part I don't understand now, is this fear of being mocked. I believe guys should stand up for how they feel and allow their anger to be expressed..."
The reason guys fear being mocked by women is that we are in a double bind with women. If we fight back against women with any real force at all, we stand to be accused of bullying and harassment against women. We are at risk of being branded misogynists or--at worst--antisocial actors who can no longer be trusted by society. Many men have been ostracized from employment opportunities and even child visitation rights for daring to fight back against women who take us on. It's a real tightrope for us. We're told by society that we have to accept whatever women say to us, that it's a man's lot to take some abuse from women, and that if we want to avoid it, we need to work harder to not give women a reason to condemn us.
Forgive my ignorance, I guess it is easier said than done. What options do guys have then? I'm genuinely concerned, I have lots of family members that are men that I would like to look out for.
Well, I think what is happening is that there's a growing sense among men that women are fair game just as men always have been, that if there is equality and competition among people of both sexes, then there must be no gender restrictions. I think that's the real recourse here, to make things fundamentally equitable so that it's a free and fair exchange. Nothing is off limits. But change in society takes time, so there are still people who view men even saying anything negative to a woman as a moral outrage. Hopefully we'll get to a place soon where we don't feel as a society that women have the right to judge men while being free from judgment themselves.
Personally, I hope to never face the brute anger of a man BUT I trust myself that I won't be in a shady situation that will lead to that. If I get divorced in the future, I still trust that I will be mature and trust the law. I can't always control whether I'll have good timing or not, so I'll put my trust in mens desire to protect what they love and care about. I hope I remain in their grace, I do my best to keep things balanced. I can't say the same for other women, but I feel like men are capable of recognizing whose intentions are good when the women put in extra effort to understand the men. I really do want to help men, I'll try and find new ways I can open the eyes of the young women around me and hopefully open their hearts.
Society has for ages attempted to civilize the more feral instincts of men by placing all these restrictions on our behavior towards each other but especially women. Men have gone to great lengths in the past to protect women, to see to it that they were protected to the greatest extent from hazard and harm. But feminism has changed that in the past 50 years. Today, women are demanding to be "equal" to men, even though that is a nonsensical notion, like demanding that glass be equivalent to a plate. We are different and not simply interchangeable parts. But there needs to be some sort of mutual respect and trust between the sexes for society to function properly. The breakdown of this mutual respect is one reason society is unraveling and marriage and birthrates are hitting all-time lows.
I agree with the goals of feminism in underdeveloped countries. I feel like United States is fine. I don't feel underpaid, but then again.. I also don't know much about those details and I am not thinking about the women who do support 5 kids by themselves who would fight for more money. Idk? I do feel like our men protect us, but there are also a lot of greedy men that would like to control their power over us and that is kind of a scary thing. Especially when we fear getting sexually taken advantage of. I know a lot of women already have, myself included, and after that happens we kind of become emotionally broken and our souls feel lost. Women may be fighting their men, but it's a confusion of love and hate with different faces. A confusion that starts within after being devalued. Which becomes scary when so many hurt women attack innocent men... It's a mess. I honestly don't have a solution
The problem is that women conflate powerful men and abusers with men in general. Most men aren't corporate titans lording power over helpless women. Most of us are wage earners and taxpayers who are just as powerless against these forces as you. We get bullied and mistreated by the system just the same. It's only a few men who end up at the top of these power structures who perpetrate the bad, and that's because they're Machiavellian by nature, which is actually how they go into power. No, most of us are just like you, decent people who are trying to live decent lives while earning a living doing something that doesn't make us want to drive off a bridge on Monday mornings.
I dislike feminism because it seems more about pushing female superiority than actual equality, illustrated by its demonization of men, but I do understand that women face severe crises in much of the world.
Oh, then we are being selfish and only thinking of our own gender problems. So in order to change that, we need our women and men to learn how to love and accept themselves first so they have room to have a desire to understand others and to listen to others. That way we can trust in ourselves and have the confidence and maturity to hear each other out and boost each other up. BUT here I am, only able to provide my feminine touch on the topic covering the nurturing aspect and feelings... This is maybe where a man would need to come in, and use his masculine energy to apply logic and analytical strengths and plan something that considers the emotional aspect?
@sugarchateau I don't believe in mistreating women and I never have never will either. I have a very high level of love and compensation for others. I believe women should be treated equal. However the goals of feminism never was about equality. Feminism was started by Marxist with the intention to destroy marriage and the family unit, it's a communist goal is what it is in disguised as equality.
@ThisAndThat Well, i believe feminism is needed in underdeveloped countries. But in the United States, I don't see why our women are complaining. Other than their hurt from being raped, but the law can only go so far with justice. We don't want to rape our men with laws based on accusations and not enough proof. These women need emotional and mental help, I know because I've been there.
@sugarchateau In the US it's not the men raping the women, it's the women raping the men. And this is where those statistics the feminist are getting is coming from. You can't make this up. https://youtu.be/M-Dtcvqcjc8
Number 4 is awesome and cute
<3 i'm super happy that you enjoyed it <3
Nice take
Thank you!
Wow you're so full of yourself..
Are you upset?
Being a woman must be horrible if you're 24 and just learning what independence is.
Nobody is truly independent. Even having a job, you're dependent on someone to pay you
Being a woman feels awesome. goodluck with yourself
Who says she JUST learned this?
How do you do all this? You're not working?
I am fortunate and clean houses part-time for people in my towns wards where I make bank, $100 for 3 hours on weekends- I don't have to clean many in order to make what I need for bills. I have a lot of free-time after my 6 classes on ASU campus. I guess I manage myself pretty well, it also surprises me that people don't find or make time to do all this stuff.
Life is good for you, but it doesn't apply to everyone!
Alright, thank you for breaking the news.
good stuff👌
I'm glad it served you! <3
I second that.
I wish I was as strong as you!
You are as strong as you want to be. We do it to ourselves.
Great
Interesting
I'm dependent