What I have found is that many girls with bold, somewhat dominant personalities as children are given a lot of pretty heavy "training" to become more agreeable, quiet, and submissive.
And I have found many men who were more submissive by nature as kids were trained to toughen up and be more dominant.
Most of our daily lives isn't as much about dominance and submission, as it is about cooperation. With each person valued as an individual for what they bring to the situation.
I don't think it is the nature of all women to submit, nor the nature of all men to dominate; but there is a great deal of lifelong social pressure to fit into these neat categories.
I don't think it is necessary for one gender to be "superior". I much prefer when our default way of interaction is collaborative rather than competitive.
@CheerGirl38139 Not necessarily, true. But it is often demonstrated as such, especially when not in the context of consensual domination and submission.
@CheerGirl38139 I believe that dominance doesn't equal superiority, but it does come with perceived superiority more often than not, either the dominant person feeling superior or the submissive person feeling inferior. Superiority/inferiority is a very subjective concept, especially when it comes to social and/or romantic relationships, but even in more objective cases I doubt there is much of a correlation between dominance and being superior, but that doesn't stop that perceptions, particularly by the parties of that relationship.
I think it's both, social is a huge factor though. dating frustrations" I went on a date with a guy and we were discussing things. I'd say something (that is a fact) and he'd go "really, that's a thing?" me "yea *smile*" him "are you sure" .-. and I didn't want to seem too... bossy, bitchy, whatever... so instead of going "are you sure you know what you're talking about because I know what I'm speaking of" i go.."yea, I think so *teehee ha ha*" ugh... :) it was kinda awkward. and I felt stupid for doubting myself so I didn't make him "feel bad"
Well, if you believe in transgenderism, a concept which relies wholly upon the premise of one's gender being decided by their 'gender role', then technically, ALL females would by definition have to be psychologically/biologically wired to be naturally submissive. That's the 'feminine' sexual gender role, after all; thus, according to transgender theory, since being a sexual submissive is an inherently female gender role, all sexually submissive people would be inherently effeminate, and thus either female or trans-female; whereas since being a sexual dom is an inherently male gender role, all sexually dominant people would be inherently masculine, and thus either male or trans-male. So, which is it?
I believe it is socal/leaned behavior. Girls are taught from a young age to be proper whereas "boys will be boys." It leads to a psychology of trying to please others. Mom and dad reward you for every bit of obedience where boys are almost encouraged to be rebellious. I think the same forces behind promiscuous women being labeled sluts versus promiscuous men being labeled stags are behind this. I know we've had conversations about submissiveness before, and I don't judge anyone who would rather be submissive, but I feel like there are societal and environmental reasons behind it.
Do you think that this idea is slowly changing? We've got two sons and one daughter and we are raising them completely different to how our parents did.
@Goodwifie yes I do. I work with high school students and I see a lot more young women with a leadership mindset. They're perfectly fine taking charge. There are still some though...
But I also believe that just because a girl/woman can "take charge" in a given situation or occupation, doesn't prevent her from being generally submissive to males in other ways.
I agree. And I do believe there are people that demand dominance from their partners which is an even grayer area. And I also belive women who may be more passive in their careers may be more dominant in other areas of interaction with men.
I played soccer in highschool which really wasn't a common thing for girls. I was the only girl in my soccer class and whenever the coaches back was turned one of the boys would do something to cause me harm because I didn't belong there. I just wanted to be as good as them so instead of going to the coach with my issues I trained and got better and stronger to the point where I earned my place in the class, it either that maybe they were just a wee bit afraid of me. It is great that you are seeing changes though 👍. Thank you.
About 3000 to 5000 years ago, during the bronze age patriachal religions were developed to oppress women by confirmation bias, social conditioning and punishing those who oppose. All it takes it is a handful of people with antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy, to climb the social ladder and take over (e. g Hitler). They impose rules and brain wash. I have noticed that women suffer today mentally, emotionally and physically with power because they were taught to give it up and were punished. Women aren't taught to be dominant, in order for something to be genetic, all environmental factors must be ruled out. Statics and science have proven that women are oppressed, it doesn't make them submissive. No one accused someone of being submissive if they are oppressed due to the color of the skin, so it makes no sense to say women are submissive due to being oppressed. The laws and people in power, including other women, uphold all these inequalities and toxic patriarchal rules. Women have been proven to have more physical endurance, make better fighter pilots (but women have to be 5'8" or taller to qualify or the planes won't fit men, the planes should be built for women if they make the better pilot), make better snipers and have better hand eye coordination. Then again, it's all in your sample. Statistics don't lie but liars make statistics. The sample of men and women you study makes a difference. If you go into an area where there are strong gender roles, there is bound to be huge physical strength differences in the sexes. Also there are scientists who make sure studies producs the outcome that they want (e. g religious and sexist scientists). What you think determines what you do. Women aren't going to push themselves as much when they are children and in puberty, resulting in detrimentally lower muscle and bone mass. This puts women and higher risk for osteoporosis and other health issues. Women are taught to want bigger, taller men, and men are taught to want smaller, tinier women. This results in selective breeding with negative side effects in some women (e. g. less muscle and bone mass). Women are taught to not want sex then shamed for it. So of course in studies they're going to select that they dont want it or get nervouse during the brain wave testing, resulting lower scores than their male counter parts. Sexual violence against women is also glorified in news stories, movies, tv shows, porn and other media. Socially conditioning the public to see it as a norm that happens all the time, called a confirmation bias, and to try to make women look like they're easy targets and weak. If a man is raped by a woman, it isn't in the news and the police won't do anything because the definition of rape has been sexist to make it so only a woman can suffer it unless it is anal. Then women have people trying to control their bodies and force them to be pregnant against their will.
It wasn't like this before 5,000 years ago, things were much more equal. Scientist are finding women did in fact hunt in hunter gatherer societies. Women also had multiple male partners. Women were warriors, no matter how hard people try to scrub the facts away.
Women need to take back their power and stop these screen writers/movie producers/news companies/politicians who aim to keep women oppressed then charlatan scientists claim they're genetically mentally, emotionally and/or physically submissive. Scientist still don't know what make dominant women dominant, testosterone doesn't mean dominance... I have seen emotionally unstable men as a result of it (yes, anger is an emotion and creates aggression). Angry women are labeled as emotional but angry men are dominant? People need to wise up to these foolish double standards.
Side note: I am a female Air Force veteran, who didn't have to train for basic training because it was to easy and I didn't lift weights until after I was wrongfully separated because I "didn't act like how a female should". I am now disabled with PTSD because of getting rape threats while in the service and having my space operations career taken from me. I was purposely failed and they showed copious amounts of movies where women were sexually assualted on the operations floor during my training. The women on the ops floor were just as bad as the men and supported them. These people were socially conditioned to be the way they were, therefore not nature but nurture! They also were using interrogation tactics on me when I was only 19. I am not submissive, despite being taught to. I have always been physically stronger than my male friends because I push myself, despite being smaller.
I am always horney, I got sterilized at age 25 and I have never/will never have kids: I value my freedom above life itself. I lift weight just as heavy and often heavier than men taller than me at the gym, I am still smaller than them. Muscle mass doesn't mean muscle strength. I have a domestic partner and will NEVER give up my last name, it's my identity and tradition has proven to be toxic and unsafe for women and men. The same assholes who think they're stronger than women also bully men.
Gender roles have ruined my life and continue to ruin the lifes of many more men and women. Men are abused and taken advantage of as well, they have no voice with sexual assault and it happens to them as much as women. People need to stop drinking the kool aid!
Plenty of studies show that testosterone influences socially dominant behaviour, and men of course have 16-20x the amount of testosterone than women do. If women have less testosterone then it makes sense that they'll be less dominant, and therefore more submissive.
Studies also show that women also score higher on agreeableness. Agreeableness is basically being more co-operative, more sympathetic, more likely to assume that others have good intentions, and most importantly likely to try to avoid confrontation. More submissive behaviour. A more dominant person is more likely to score low on agreeableness, especially since in order to impose their dominance they have to be willing to face confrontation.
Not exactly. To submit is a choice and about entering a certain role. However, it is often a consequence of high empathy. People that are high on empathy tend to unknowingly make that choice because they have alarm bells going of in their head more often "What if I'm wrong?", "What if I upset him/her/them".
And women are usually born with a higher capacity for empathy and agreeableness, while men on average aren't.
The solution should be that men (on average) take some time to train their empathy, while women (on average) train to take some of it away. Make up a little bit for a problem presented by biology while being 100% honest about that there actually is a biological factor to this.
I think that it originated as a psychological adaptation to oppression and violent rape/sex that was most likely common when we were still evolving (since we were wild apes back then). But over time it has slowly eroded and we have progressed to a society where women can have dominant roles (e. g a female boss with male employees). But the submissive side is still there so women choose to live out the last vestiges of this archaic relic in the privacy of their bedrooms.
Hopefully though, even this will disappear soon too.
Um.. because it's disgusting and degrading? And yes, it's evolutionary, but did you not read the part of how it stems from an oppressive past? If something has bad roots, why would you want to keep it? I don't know why girls are always so satisfied and proud to be submissive when the root cause of it was their ancient ancestors getting violently raped and subjugated.
Where did I say that I wanted men and women to be virtually identical in all areas of life? I LOVE the fact that there is a strong contrast between femininity and masculinity, but we're not talking about that. All I'm saying is that I don't like the idea of girls enjoying being degraded and aggressively manhandled to the point that it appears to be rape because it's disgusting and because I think it lowers the girl's self-respect. Are you telling me that it makes a girl LESS feminine to not want to partake in that? Or that it makes her man-like?
And you do realize that there doesn't always need to be a submissive-dominant dichotomy in sex, right? I don't know why people always talk about this as if sex is impractical or dysfunctional unless there's always a sub and a dom. That's ridiculous.
I assumed you were talking about sex because your original reply was in reference to my last remark, where I specifically said that I wanted the sexual submissiveness of girls to die out too. And also, is the second photo you included in your original post not meant to have a purely sexual meaning?
But anyways, I personally think that submitting to men because you think it's "natural" is a backwards way to think. Women can lead and be independent just fine if they choose to. Having a penis doesn't automatically make you a better leader. Submitting to men is largely a religious tenet, and we all know how backwards religion can be..
Lol, sure buddy, I know what I've read. And I noticed you're only objecting to the degradation part, which means you have no problem with being aggressively manhandled, even though that in and of itself is degrading. You probably don't see it that way just cause you enjoy it, but enjoying something does not mean it's not degrading.
I didn’t mention “manhandling”” because that is so far from the realm and possibility of degrading but I guess when I’m dealing with a 13yo boys mentally, knowledge and experience I need to spell everything out. Let me summarize for you.. What you find degrading may be very different from what I find degrading. So you be you, and I’ll take care of me, buddy.
I have the mentality of a 13 year old boy because I find degrading what you don't? Or do people have to agree with you in order for you to not insult them? But sure, keep getting slapped around like a worthless fucktoy and telling yourself it's not degrading, if that's what helps you sleep at night.
I refer to you as a 13 yo boy because you seem to think everything you say is fact. What I’m attempting to impart to you is that it’s not as simple as you think it’s degrading, then it’s degrading. What you find degrading very well may be degrading to you. But it doesn’t autimaticalky have to be degrading to me. Imaging you and I are at a party and someone pants’ you to reveal a tiny penis. You may find that degrading where’s I would think it’s sad, or pathetic or even amusing.
So hard to say. I do believe that it is generally biological, but the environment can change that, shaping the person to be more or less submissive. But at the core, I believe most want to please others. Which I like, but it's also wonderful when a woman speaks up for what they want.
Then as part of growing up we have role models that reinforce our nature.
Most girls are submissive to me , but take a girl with an abusive or alcoholic father and most the time the girl becomes dominant to deal with this wrong/incorrect male role model.
She becomes tough and often becomes lesbian to maintain that mindset of never ever submitting to a man coz she doesn't want to ever be treated that way again.
Nope. I think it depends on your environment and upbringing. My mother is a very strong minded person. She submits to no man. I’m the same way... she does what she wants and when she want. If you were to expect her to submit she’d probably cuss you out then tell you to get to stepping.
@esotericstory first of all you don’t know my mother so it isn’t your place to say jack shit. She’s been married to my father for 25 years and they’ve been together for 30. Never in my life have I witnessed my mother do anything “submissive”
Women are much more supportive and caring by nature while men are more competitive and Agressive my nature. This nessacarly means that the average couple will adpot such a dominant and more submissive role while in bed. And that will bleed over into their general life just like how their general life will bleed over into the bed room.
I believe we are biologically made to be the submissive sex and life makes us turn that off. I am by nature submissive but life has made me the dominant one in my circles.
It’s biological to some extent but environment plays huge roles as well.
It’s why you see a lot of western relationships being more demanding even if the woman is mostly submissive, while in middle eastern cultures they’re completely submissive, with almost no demand being able to be made towards their male counterparts.
Its a biological thing and NCBI is free and there for common folk to read and understand science, woman are naturally wired to be submissive and Man are naturally wired to dominate.
I’d say social and environmental, but this is an interesting question because some of that social conditioning has fallen away and submissiveness or tolerance is now in our genetic memory.
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Anonymous
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I think it's a biological thing, however I'm the exception haha
How I used to act when I just began dating is so different from now and I received so much criticism for acting a certain way. So in public, I try to adhere to stereotypes but in private I am me again. I. e. argumentative as f*#k
I think it really depends on the person. Some people are just naturally submissive, others naturally dominant (lol), and others are brought up to be either.
For those who downvoted, you can see that on most polls here while some vote that they aren't submissive a lot more women tend to vote that they're more submissive. There are so many of these polls that all show the same result.
I am going to a social thing. Women are not as submissive to men as the were in the 50’s and 60’s. so Much so that women today seem to have tell you that they are submissive.
I also think that a lot of men have suppressed there natural instinct to “lead” in order not to come off as chauvinist as the rolls of man and woman have blurred. Not that I think we can’t be equal partners , but the order of things have be come confused.
Makes sense. Personally, i think we are mostly hard wired that way... but over the last few decades, it's become "uncool" and politically incorrect to be and do the things that we all have been and done for hundreds if not thousands of years.
I believe that most females are independent free thinking individuals who put in a position will hand over control to someone they trust rather than blow the bottom out of the plan by demanding they be in control.
Women do have a tendency towards being more submissive than men. That's a result of evolution and gender roles, which obviously doesn't apply to everyone.
People's nature is highly torn, but I don't think that patriarchy would have existed as long as it has unless women had a part of your brain which urges you to surrender your vagina to a strong, but kind and protective man.
Some societies developed as matriarchal, others developed as patriarchal. Before the slavery and patriarchy, early tribal and clan societies (based on kinship & lineage) were closer to equality... but eventually, patriarchal society has prevailed and imposed submissive role on women.
Genesis 6 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the angels came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them
yeah good luck with that lol
do me a favor stop talking idiot do your research before speaking
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