Q: Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?
A: Because perverts and quacks were allowed in the 1940s to hijack public education, and they pushed a sex ed curriculum that is anti-Biblical and encourages men to look at sex not as an act of worship confined to a specific context, but rather as a contact sport for which they "don't measure up" unless they have a certain scorecard. Pagan sexuality, on crack.
Q: Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?
A: Ditto above answer.
Q: Why is chivalry as good as dead? A: See above. Also, Cultural Marxists hijacked feminism.
Q: What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her? A:
1. WJB's forfeiture on the issue of scientific authority in the Scopes Trial, sending the church on a slippery slope to becoming culturally less and less relevant.
2. Lyndon B. Johnson. The "Great Society" social agenda was a total disaster, and only managed to completely demoralize the sexes and undermine the family.
And that was long before "After the Ball" added LGBTQ (P) IZ insanity to the mixture in 1992, as a covert strategy to fulfill Michael Swift's insane manifesto.
Q: Why are women so highly dispensible to men? A: Ditto above.
All these morally-toxic historical events have robbed men who can't see past the smokescreen of it all of the incentive to act like anything other than horny dogs. And sadly, most modern women no longer bother themselves to rise above being bitches. The price we all pay for this moral despair, is to see our minds degenerate more and more to the level of a dog-or something worse. It's happening in slow motion, but signs of decay are everywhere.
This is the same old tired argument being used again and again. You're basing this on your personal anecdotes which is ridiculous. Just because you've had a few experiences doesn't mean this applies unilaterally.
There is something wrong with having a relationship that doesn't include sex because the entire point of relationships is to have sex with someone you like. Waiting is just an irrational, nonsensical religious belief that guilts people into abstaining from their strongest desires so the church or whatever can absolve you of your sin and keep your loyalty and donations since them help you remove your guilt. The health benefits of safe sex and the pleasure you get from it is a no brainer.
Having sex before marriage is essential in my opinion because having good sex in a marriage or a relationship is one of the best predictors of long term success. If you wait till marriage and realize that the sex sucks with that person, then you probably aren't going to be lasting very long according to statistics. For both men and women, its like buying a new car from a lot without testing it and without having a warranty. if you get a lemon you're screwed.
Relationships and marriages last the longest and are the happiest when couples have good sex and also good communication/romance. Removing sex is like removing 50% of the purpose and benefits of marriage or relationships.
This traditional thinker nonsense really just means backwards religious guilt instilled into you from years of propaganda from your family/church/whatever. You're wasting your life by waiting. Have sex with someone you love and trust, fine, but why wait for marriage unless you have superstitious ideas that God gives a shit about what your private parts are doing. Give me a break.
And automatically everything you said is now discounted and not taken seriously when you said the whole point of a long term relationship where one would hope to marry and have kids with their significant other is to have sex with someone you like. Do you listen to the bullshit that comes out your mouth? O_O
Well first of all the alleged bullshit came out of my fingers, i don't have a speech to text engine. And no lol, not everything is discounted even if you disagree with that. What kind of stupid point is that? It would be like saying--"everything you written is now wrong and dumb because there are many chivalrous guys out there." I mean much of what you wrote is wrong but im not making some insane conclusion because of one statement. But to refute your point yeah the purpose is to have sex because that leads to kids and a successful continuous marriage herp derp. It also leads to the continuation of your genetic lineage. How long does a marriage last without sex? Please tell me how successful a sexless marriage is. Oh wait it isn't at all. Sex is essential to having kids generally. Do you think through your arguments before regurgitating them online? Now here's where you get butthurt, write what you think is a clever comeback (it won't be), and block me so I can't respond.
After seeing such a huge response from guys I almost don't feel like replying but who knows maybe this'll matter. I think the biggest problem here is perspective. Not all men (as I'm sure some of these guys have said) are like the ones you're describing. Second people tend to see the past through rose colored glasses. The internets not even 20 years old so the vast majority of people who've told you about the good ole days know little to nothing about the world outside of thier local area (or at least not nearly as much as they think) prostitution is the world's oldest profession, 25 50 years ago was consider old for having a child the world really hasn't changed as much as you'd think. You're not a traditionalist thinker you just like the fantasy that you've been sold about the past. Your an idealistic thinker. For every woman that was courted in the movies there were 10 in real life getting played by some wandering stranger. That's just life. I know that makes you unhappy but we don't get too choose how everything in the world works. You can only choose how you react. If you don't want sex before marriage say no and look for that guy who agrees. He may never come but that's not something you're in control of. Life's not a fantasy. If anything it's a tragic comedy. Learn to focus on the bright side before you make yourself miserable.
Its a double whammy that came with the sexual revolution. Feminism killed chivalry (plenty on that by the other responses). Secondly with women being able to have sex more openly, they could choose and unfortunately those nice chivalrous guys were not on the attraction list. So another thing happened: Men had to start playin women and what was once possibly a quality thing turned into a numbers game. I personally believe men should always have other options: i. e. never put all into one girl. The men struggling with women are all those chaps who were raised as pussies by their moms and those guys meet the criteria for "nice" and "loving" in a long term but they don't spark sexual chemistry and attraction, so they don't have a chance. And is a good women worth fighting for? I believe so, but if you gorgeous then I am up against a sea of other men and the fight isn't worth it especially if the dude is more handsome or well off than me. So... I have a tequila, say fuck it and play the numbers game.
And since women want equality... why don't you try chase or seduce a guy? I personally don't know what its like to be desired so I obviously get the hint you know what I saying?
@ThatGirLqueen no, men commanded women prior. Arranged marriages an shit. After the sexual revolution, women could choose and the golden rule then as is today, the majority girls go for the minority guys. But those minority were now exactly nice humble men. They were your bad boys. So men followed suit to various degrees. These are all generalisations and there are exceptions but that's how it panned out.
I think that it goes both ways. Both men and women have the ability to be trash and unworthy human scums. I must admit though nowadays I don't really blame men for treating women like trash, women act like trash... it honestly makes me disgusted to be a woman. People expect too much from one another, too many labels have been given to each gender and its ridiculous. The truth is, if you're with a person that has no respect for you, man OR woman, they don't love you, or care about you, because love knows no hate, discrimination, no greed. Society just has a lack of empathy, many people don't truly care about people anymore unless they get a benefit. I wish that people could just learn to stop judging others and see each others as people not "whore women" "materialist women" or "disgusting pig men" "cheating men". I wish people would realize that both sexes are in the same position, its just what media and society chooses to highlight and label people as. Yes, many men wrongfully disrespect women, but many women wrongfully disrespect men too. There is too much rivalry going on between men and women. Everyone has some shit to say about how men are this and that and crying about how poor women are, and men saying women are this and that and crying about shitty women are. I know a lot of great men and women who don't fall under the list of "shitty people" and I choose to believe that there are more out there, if you know men or women that disrespect the others, disassociate yourself with them and be done with it. Thats the best thing you can do.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Firstly, what world are you talking about with "Men used to be required to court women for months, the holding of hands was almost unheard of and a kiss before marriage? Outrageous!" I resend was with my dad as he met up with some old college friends. They attended a Christian college together back in the mid 60's. It didn't take me long to figure out that their oldest sons age was the same as the number of years they've been married. When I asked my minister father about that he said the only difference between now and then was that you married a woman you got pregnant". People have always had pre marital sex and always will.
To your point. Woman demanded equality with men. They received it. Men took women off the pedestal they had previously been placed. We realized that she could easily be replaced with another woman. Why play silly games that we hate when we can find a likewise thinking female. As for marriage, I could stand to lose my house. Custody of my kids. Forced to pay alimony. Child support, even after she gets remarried and has his income to help raise the kids. While I'll be stuck working 80 hours a week to support two families if I choose to get remarried. Tell me why a traditional approach is beneficial to me.
7
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
I just dont feel motivated to chase. it's not nessesarily that I'm choosing not too. I just feel zero drive to do so.
Also let's say I do chase, and I pay to take a girl on dates and wait months for sex... Well when the girl does finally have sex with me, it's not like it will feel special. It's something 3-5+ other guys probably got on the first date after getting drunk and grinding with her at a party. Or maybe guys she hooked up with on tinder.
I don't feel motivated to work for something that is given away for free to random guys at parties or on tinder. I'm conflicted tho, on one side I wish I was the type of guy that girls want to hook up with but I know I'm the shy and boring guy who wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping with a stranger.
Girls have sex on the first date with the hot fun guys at parties and clubs. I'm just the boring reliable guy that would have to jump through hoops to get the sex the drunk guys at parties got for free. The guy they only want when its time to buy a house and raise kids.
1. If guys stop using girls, we wouldn't NEED a reason to make a guy wait (to show he cares even though that can't be proven if he really did). 2. Guys have sex all the time so girls can too. Sexist much 3. " I don't feel motivated to work for something that is given away for free to random guys at parties or on tinde"
Are you kidding? I'm sure girls feel the sane way about guys having sex and giving it away to just anyone.
"Girls have sex on the first date with the hot fun guys at parties and clubs. "
Girls that do that, only want fun. Girls that want a SERIOUS relationship (when she's ready) doesn't. Any person with a brain would know that
women have no respect for themselves, so why are you surprised men do not have any respect for them either?
Your questions...
1. Why should a man invest his emotions and time and money into a relationship, meeting her emotional needs, if she won't even meet his sexual needs?
2. Personally, a lot of the virgins I met at college age were virgins for fairly clear reasons... they had some issues. Ugh.
3. Chivalry is something men in positions of power did towards ladies. We are in an age of equality, and most women do not deserve the title of "Lady" in any way shape or form.
4. That gets you friendzoned. I'm not even kidding. I was the sort of man you are wanting in this question back in my college days... got friendzoned. Decided to be more like the guys they were pining after, much to the chagrin of a girl who rejected me but when she found out I was chatting with her ex and learning, spat "Fine, be an asshole like him!" Got laid next week with a girl I didn't give a damn about. Felt way better than getting rejected by a girl I adored.
5. Same reason divorce statistics show husbands are dispensable to women. The less you care in a relationship the less you lose, and the less you have to lose.
If your average girl wears her hair long, doesn't wear glasses and takes care of her face, then just exercises enough to stay at a decent weight (if your chin looks like a frog's throat bubble you're in bad shape) then she'll look decently attractive.
Hmmmm... don't really agree with you there, I think it's 50/50. What you said there is work too that a girl has to do to seem attractive to me. The work men have to do is different but it's the same effort required on each side. The social skills, charm and charisma are suited to girls who like that as well as an average weight girl with long hair and no glasses are good for some men. There are so many variations in likes and dislikes across the board, and in so many combinations that just being you is a person's best bet to being found attractive. In my opinion of course lol.
Tell that to all the fat, obnoxious girls who rant that all men are pigs and shallow.
Women have a strong dislike of anything "fake" due to their instincts. But the thing is... most of the hot guys women love to sleep with?
They learned their skills. It's not "natural" it's learned from experience, just as a fit body comes from hours of working out.
An attractive man/woman is no more "natural" than a mercedes or a beautiful piece of glassware. Everything good and desirable in life takes practice and work and learning.
There are guys who want their woman with extra too, and don't like slim girls... And I'm not against self maintenance it's just the doing of it solely to be attractive is not right in my opinion. Doing it to be healthy is good or both is still good. Women struggle with social skills too, being introverted or extroverted has nothing to do with gender. Sigh this conversation has me convinced that somebody has put a serious scar on your heart or something. You seem very bitter towards women.
I was raised by conservative parents... I was one of those guys at 18 who actually would have been okay waiting for marriage. (and no, I'm not fat or ugly... according to women, I'm a looker.) I thought girls didn't like jerks, or guys that pushed for sex, etc.
Then I joined reality.
My illusions about women being respectable people who want a guy who will treat them well and have each other's backs didn't fade away... women put those illusions to bed and smothered them with the pillow.
When I watched "The Dark Knight" I felt so sorry for Harvey Dent...
"You thought we could be decent men, in an indecent time!"
I have no idea what it is like living in an American culture, I'm from the Caribbean... so I guess it's different here. From what you guys describe USA seems like a scary place to me, where I'm at the situation is not so bad and girls don't go for jerks... what is more likely to happen is a girl will fall for a guy who pretends to be nice at first. Than when he gets her he shows his true colors. So if you drew your conclusions based on your environment and observations, i can't fault you... however I will say if something is being done wrongly, the better thing is always being the one who does it right, rather than the one who joins the crowd doing wrong. Just saying :)
"women have no respect for themselves, so why are you surprised men do not have any respect for them either?"
And how do women not have respect for themselves? The only I see as not having respect for themselves is the sexist ones and the ones that kiss men asses,
"Why should a man invest his emotions and time and money into a relationship, meeting her emotional needs, if she won't even meet his sexual needs"
So he can use her right? Men did it all the time though, nothing new
"most women do not deserve the title of "Lady" in any way shape or form. "
Why? Because we refuse to kiss your ass and bow down to do you because you're a man? Damn right
It's not that i don't think women are worth it. I think they're still worth it, but amount of them that i considered "worth it" a decade ago has dwindled to a smaller number. This is largely due to the risks of marriage, and the power most women have if/when a divorce does happen. I do want to get married eventually, but i'm definitely in no rush. I don't really worry about the encroachment of feminism and what not because of how the future is forming in terms of the changes in the international monetary system, and the effects it will have on the U. S./Canada/UK etc.
Women will be the most affected because they by and large are majoring in degrees that even by todays standards are fairly obsolete/low paying... and when you know the direction of where we're headed in the next 5 years or so, those degrees will be even more obsolete. So when guys start bitching about women this and women that, i really don't get it half the time. They generally aren't in a good position, because what many of them are educated in isn't future proof, and hardly any women i know even bother investing their money, or know where it should be invested to prepare for the years ahead -_- If guys realized how good most of their positions actually are, they would bitch less and prepare more.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
It's because there are so many poor women around who quite frankly don't deserve a good man, they are not good women and expect good men and then they hurt those good men and those good men then become bitter, frustrated and disillusioned and the negative cycle begins.
If men and women want to find good each partners then maybe they should start being good people themselves and let's be honest the modern day woman isn't really worth being with is she? She's self-entitled, she's demanding, she's hypocritical, she's easy and she offers a modern day man virtually nothing and the same can be said of a lot of men too.
I'm a good man and I want a good woman but even the self-proclaimed good women have hurt me in the past, so if all women are going to hurt me in some capacity then why even bother? If a woman is going to settle for me after ploughing half the city, then what incentive is there for me to even take women seriously?
Even you describe yourself as a traditional thinker living the modern world, you're a hypocrite and men are starting to stand up against the hypocrisy of good women want to keep men enslaved in their traditional gender roles while they can blur the lines of their own and mould into some hybrid model.
It's because there are so many poor men around who quite frankly don't deserve a good woman, they are not good men and expect good women and then they hurt those good women and those good women then become bitter, frustrated and disillusioned and the negative cycle begins.
Same can said about women
EVERYTHING you said is bullcrap. Women can say the same about men *roll eyes*
I'm a traditionalist but I don't blur the lines between that and feminism. I think it's really wrong for other females to want the best of both worlds. There is no in between for this it's either one or the other and for the people that expect in between then they need to expect their guy to want in between as well. You can't scream feminism and then expect a guy to pay for your date and hold the door open for you.
I agree with you, except that I actually said I'm more traditional, not "I'm traditional." I have realized from this take that GAGers are quick to jump to conclusions, then judge people on it. I understand it was most likely a mistake, it does not really bother me, it's just after seeing so many people seemingly attacking me for taking my "I'm more traditional" as "I'm traditional" I'm a bit tired. Sigh. But anywho, thanks for your opinion
1. There is nothing wrong with it, just relationships with sex are easy to come by.
2. Most guys would be flattered if a virgin chose them. Its extremely flattering to think a woman said no to all those other guys and waited for you her Mr. Right. Especially in todays society.
3. Chivalry is dead because feminism killed it. Anything traditional like that is viewed as toxic, and taboo.
4. What happened to not rejecting a guy before he can prove himself?
5. I have NEVER viewed women as highly dispensable. Some guys, the players, do, but a good woman completes me. Makes me feel whole, and not just physically. She makes colors seem brighter, sounds seem livelier, she lessens my suffering, and gives me new found confidence in myself that I have never had.
Oh my gosh I feel like the sky opened up and there was singing from the heavens... these guys here had me totally believing all was lost... you saved them, hope! Hope for humanity here. No 3. made me laugh cuz it's somewhat true but geez we need more you's in the world. And then too I did notice that the really negative opinion owners' age groups are low, so hopefully they change their views as they mature. I guess because you are older you understand more of what I'm speaking about. Thank you so much for your opinion. I didn't know it when I wrote this take, but after reading your opinion this is what I was looking for :)
"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"
Because it goes against human nature for most people and is rooted in religion. If a person is not religious why would this matter to them. Sex is a natural part of life. If you want to wait that is your choice and should be respected. However it is no mans responsibility to also share that choice.
"Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?"
Outside of high school when everyone is struggling to find their own identity this rarely happens. I have dated two female virgins, one 24 and the other 34. I never once thought anything of it and no one they ever told looked down on them for it.
"Why is chivalry as good as dead?"
Sadly I think it is dieing. Generations are becoming more and more selfish and entitled. Also many men walk on eggshells in fear of the extremist feminists who think holding a door for a lady is sexist. So they are taught not to do that where as I was taught to do that.
"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?"
No man should have to "prove" them-self to a women. No women should have to "prove" them-self to a man. A relationship is not a test.
"Why are women so highly dispensible to men?"
Men AND women who are just out for some casual sex only want that. It doesn't mean they view the person as dispensable. They just don't want a relationship. They want short term fun and nothing else.
"Long and short of the story is I want to know why do men seem to no longer believe a good woman is worth fighting for or worth going through desert storms and pouring rain for... Why is quitting so easy now?"
Why is it you think a women should be a struggle? A fight? A healthy relationship is easy, its isn't a struggle or a fight. That should be the goal. Not someone you need to Prove yourself to or fight for.
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Anonymous
(45 Plus)
+1 y
"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"
Because a relationship is not friendship. And friendship is also not "proving yourself and fighting for and going through desert storms and pouring rain for".
You know when men and women had deep, loving, long term relationships without sex? Never. Back when 'courtship' was the norm, yes, men would court women for months, then get married. They'd be having sex with her within a few months. Men either had 'good intentions' (marriage and sex, soon) or bad intentions (sex without marriage). There was no concept that 'oh this guy probably wants to hang out with this girl and share feelings and cuddle a bit but nothing more for a few years'.
What changed? The birth control pill, longer educational pathways, and women entering workforce. The first allowed sex without children, which really made premarital sex much lower risk, the second two have pushed the desired age for marriage and having kids decades back from sexual maturity.
So we now have a 15-20 year stretch of sexually mature humans not wanting to get married.
". Men used to be required to court women for months, the holding of hands was almost unheard of and a kiss before marriage? Outrageous!!"
So back then women got free handouts until they deemed us worthy of their coochies then, right? Ya know Via us working 8-12 hours daily just to indirectly give our money to them.
Do you see how stupid that sounds for us as men tho? And any man who'd dare say "mist I'd love that lifestyle" should "build a bridge and get over it" as @gapminder would say.
"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?" or how about you broads start proving to us as men that you guys are worth more than the hole between yall's legs now, how about that?
Exactly, women should bring something to the table more than their hole ''and still, they are enjoying sex too and its easy to have without relationship'' if not they can go find someone else
@Mistnigqa808 I agree with what you say. Regardless of gender we have to prove to one another that we have something else to offer. Its not just men and its not just women. We all play a part of plan.
@ThatGirLqueen Hey, I'm cool with being "disgusting". But what the heck are you then? Ya know besides a broad who's probably becoming scared/bitter about the fact that her "pussy" doesn't have as much power as it once did in this society? Ya know since niggas are no longer treating you, skanks like "gods gift to earth" anymore. Naw we're fucking and chucking you hoes on massive accounts 😂😂😂
@MysteriousChick93 Yes we should and women should have to prove that they're more than a "walking vaginas" to be fucked and chucked" 😂😂😂
@TOKTOK Agreed, but as long as they have a "pussy" that'll usually be more than enough to survive... cuz there will always be some horndog willing to take her/them in for some "in-house pussy", right? We as men don't get that luxury ^_^.
@ThatGirLqueen and you just proved you aren't worth it. Then they wonder why we think they aren't worth it, girls like this who believe they can call all men disgusting and still get us to pay the bill, crawl for them and buy them expensive shit xD
"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?" -Because sexual compatibility and everything that comes with it. -It's not wrong so much as it is not for me. -Marriage shouldn't change anything, if you think it does then you're not doing relationships right. -See no reason to get married so there's nothing to wait for.
"Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?" -It's more looked down upon in men, and women as virgins are seen positively if anything, but on the whole I think people just don't care. -Traditional religious values very highly valued virginity in people. We don't have that anymore and I think it's for the best. It's not some magical thing, it's the same as not doing anything else. I've never bungee jumped, who cares?
"Why is chivalry as good as dead?" -Yay for equality.
"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?" -When has proving yourself to the man been a thing? Perhaps there are a few exceptions so I'll say rarely rather than never... as if that makes it all ok.
"Why are women so highly dispensable to men?" -In what context? Because I see this as absolute nonsense. What world are you living in?
Believing that women deserve these things and then feeling like something has gone wrong with the world when they don't get their special treatment is textbook entitlement.
"Its seen as positive because men want to be the first to 'beak her'" Break her has negative connotations, which I don't think is the case. It's cool to be first and from an evolutionary perspective I think it makes sense to be a little attracted to the idea. But it's not a desire to "break her," to 'spoil' or degrade her with our 'filthy maleness.' Again, women as virgins are seen positively if anything.
"Since forever. All women did was please men." I really doubt that. We know there is a historical convention of men proving themselves, we're still dealing with it even now. But what is there to convince me that women prove themselves more than guys? If you think you do it, then what do you do? If not, then why are you exempt from doing it?
I see guys as being virgins as a good thing also. I would love to be a guy's first but sadly I'm a virgin and my boyfriend is not. I still love him though
"We know there is a historical convention of men proving themselves, we're still dealing with it even now'
Not true. Little girls were already taught to please men. there's not need to prove it. Everyone with a brain knows women were property and they couldnt prove themselves for nothing because there was always another submissive pushover willing to do whatever that man wanted her to.
" But what is there to convince me that women prove themselves more than guys? If you think you do it, then what do you do? If not, then why are you exempt from doing it?"
1. Again, women were property and there was always submissive pushover women willing to do what the guy wanted. 2. I believe respect is earned. If a guy prove he won't use me, I'll give him all the love to give PERIOD
1. Is that a fact? Says who? And I said 'more than guys,' we probably all had stupid cultural expectations, but I don't see one gender's experience being a cakewalk relative to the other at the time.
2. So if respect is earned, then earn my respect. I can replace guy with girl and throw that back at you.
@ThatGirLqueen I agree that many women see virginity as positive, but the point is it's more negatively seen in men than women, even if overall they are both viewed positively.
'It's a fact because I say so and reasons.' This info comes from a reliable source I trust, hmm? I don't buy it. Guy's experiences were a cakewalk then? Bull.
Who cheated first? What are you even talking about? I thought we were discussing attitudes and conventions surrounding the courting process.
Equality is making relationships evolve. You gain stuff but you also lose stuff. That goes for both men and women. What you are looking at is mostly what women are losing to make gains elsewhere. I mean I think most men don't like it much either but you can't have it both ways. I don't think that men think women are no longer worth it, I just think they don't think women are worth what they once were worth. I think the same can be said about men though, with no longer having to be sole providers for example. Men have their loses from it as well, such as it becoming harder to find a woman who hasn't slept around or more competition for jobs. I know at times it really sucks but you got to hope it is for the better. Either way you have to go with it since it probably isn't going to go back to the way it was.
Point taken! I mostly agree with you here... The exception is I do think having it both ways is possible, as long as there's a gentleman and a lady in the relationship.
I don't think you can have it both ways, since if you could then that isn't equality. I think the situation you described is one where you either comply to the standards as they use to be where men got more out of the relationship than women or a new way where women get more out of the relationship than men, or it least it would be that way based on how society is now. Either way I think it would be hard to find a mate willing to accept either of those standards while being on the losing end of the benefits involved, especially in this day and age.
The way it would balance off is he compromises sometimes so she gets more and then she compromises sometimes so he gets more out of the relationship. If either of them is more selfish then the balance will be off, hence the point that is must be a gentleman and a lady. But that is hard to find these days... hence this take on the subject of the lack of true gentlemen.
1. Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?
Ans: Because times change. At this time we realize that there is no point in spinning around a girl for months/years and spending tons of your hard earned money on her if you can't touch her only because both of you are not married. If we men are to fap in the bathroom while being in a relationship then what is the fucking point of having a relationship?
2. Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?
Ans: Any pussy is a good pussy for men. Whether it's a virgin pussy or experienced pussy, men would love to penetrate it. Maybe we men realize that life is short so we must fuck the pussy at hand & not wait for a virgin pussy to be available (hah - as if there are so many virgins available these days) *sarcasm*
3. Why is chivalry as good as dead?
Ans: Time factor. In past, women were treated like treasure, something to be taken care of, something to love, something to respect. But in present time, women are being treated like commodity. It's their own fault. They sell themselves by showing their skin. And as you know in this time both men and women earn money, there is no need to show extra respect. Economically, both are strong and this society is very much economy-centric.
4. What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?
Ans: Girls are also reason behind this. Girls who have high libido tend to make the first move and the trend follows. Why would men try so hard if girls are readily available to date/fuck?
5. Why are women so highly dispensible to men?
Ans: They always were. You seem to notice this because the true nature of men are no longer hidden.
I think your first mistake is thinking that a man has to "go through" something and "fight" for you. Be an adult in the situation, be an equal, someone doesn't and shouldn't have to cater to you just because you're a woman and he's a man.
Also i'm going to have to disagree with the "women/feminism created this problem" "you can't have it both ways" opinions. I think it's perfectly fine/acceptable to be strong and independent in certain situations but not so much in other ways. I don't see why a woman couldn't pay for her own meals and not need a man financially while he can still be polite and chivalrous towards her. One doesn't cancel out the other. I can pay for my own meals and still respect a man, so why can't women have it that way as well?
I also think it's just more of a problem with people lacking respect for each other in general.
The issue isn't respect, women have always been respected.(men would fight, often to the death, to defend a womans reputation) its that you cannot treat a woman as meek one moment and an equal another. It would be like expecting a child to act like an adult some times but then not others. What situations arise that would be exceptable for a child to act like a child, or to act like an adult? Same thing with women, men are expected to pamper her like she needs help but then other times with no clear indication of when, he is expected to treat her as if she is fully capable. Meanwhile men are treated the same way, doesn't matter when or where it is always the same, always consistent. That is the issue.
Well, I understand how it's confusing to some men but it's no different than all of the other trivial shit people go through when they're getting to know someone and their personal preferences while dating, I think it depends on the individual honestly.
I still don't understand how paying for my own meal would void a guy being nice to me or why I "can't have it both ways", when i'm fully capable of giving it both ways as well.
I don't see why you can't treat a person (male or female) as "meek" in certain aspects but as an equal still. You wouldn't treat an older person as less than an equal just because they're not physically capable of doing things to the degree that you do them.
I'm not really good with examples lol. All i'm saying is there's no reason why you can't be respectful to someone even though they have physical differences. There's no reason that women can't "have it all". Men can have it all, men can work, survive, be independent and have a faithful/respectful girlfriend who does nice things for them without having it thrown in their face. But as soon as a woman works and pays for herself, she's considered "independent", she apparently created a problem. She now needs to pick between having someone be chivalrous to her and having a faithful/respectful boyfriend or by financially supporting herself (you know kind of like, how all adults should...).
I just don't understand why or how a woman being financially independent, changes the dynamic of the relationship. How paying for your own bills and choosing to pay for your own meal, some how black list you from having your chair pulled out and being in a loving respectful relationship. If you have issues respecting a woman just because they have a career then you're probably just a jerk to begin with.
I would also love to know the alternative to not being an "independent" woman these days? It's pretty much required because we're all adults and we're all required to provide for ourselves. What else are woman supposed to do? Are we supposed to live with our rich fathers throughout our adult life, while we date around to find a guy to marry just so he can financially support us now? I just have difficulty understanding.
Most men have lost their sense of morals just like most women have lost their sense of womanhood. If women aren't going to adhere to a standard then why should men? Most women I know have "given up on men" too. I read their Facebook posts all the time they act like the world's against them and suddenly when they have another boyfriend they act like nothing happened and life is perfect. Then when they breakup they post the same previous shit.
The bottom line is it has become less common to find decent, normal people with compassion and values. This includes men and woman. Society is slowly breaking apart, without roles and order there is only chaos. If you want to find a good man all I can say is Good Luck, and I could use some myself to find a good woman.
This is true... sad, but true. Tbh I am at the point where I've joined that group that has somewhat given up too. I'm not closed to men, I'm simply not looking for one... never really was looking in the first place; poured my heart and soul into a man (met as teens) for 8 years and now I'm tired, and I'm done for now. But thanks anyways and good luck to you too :)
"why do men seem to no longer believe a good woman is worth fighting for or worth going through desert storms and pouring rain for?"
This is where you're wrong. We do believe that a good woman is worth everything you listed and more. I'd dare say that the vast majority of men believe this in their core.
The dichotomy between your perspective and ours boils down to this - women think that they are worth it just because they are women, where as men are starting to realize that we have other options.
If you want us to think of you and value and treasure you as a good woman, then first you must be a good woman to us, by us. Be awesome to us, in ways that we appreciate, and I promise you that there will never be a shortage of men who are still willing to lay down their lives for you.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
113Opinion
Q: Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?
A: Because perverts and quacks were allowed in the 1940s to hijack public education, and they pushed a sex ed curriculum that is anti-Biblical and encourages men to look at sex not as an act of worship confined to a specific context, but rather as a contact sport for which they "don't measure up" unless they have a certain scorecard. Pagan sexuality, on crack.
Q: Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?
A: Ditto above answer.
Q: Why is chivalry as good as dead?
A: See above. Also, Cultural Marxists hijacked feminism.
Q: What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?
A:
1. WJB's forfeiture on the issue of scientific authority in the Scopes Trial, sending the church on a slippery slope to becoming culturally less and less relevant.
2. Lyndon B. Johnson. The "Great Society" social agenda was a total disaster, and only managed to completely demoralize the sexes and undermine the family.
And that was long before "After the Ball" added LGBTQ (P) IZ insanity to the mixture in 1992, as a covert strategy to fulfill Michael Swift's insane manifesto.
Q: Why are women so highly dispensible to men?
A: Ditto above.
All these morally-toxic historical events have robbed men who can't see past the smokescreen of it all of the incentive to act like anything other than horny dogs. And sadly, most modern women no longer bother themselves to rise above being bitches. The price we all pay for this moral despair, is to see our minds degenerate more and more to the level of a dog-or something worse. It's happening in slow motion, but signs of decay are everywhere.
This is the same old tired argument being used again and again. You're basing this on your personal anecdotes which is ridiculous. Just because you've had a few experiences doesn't mean this applies unilaterally.
There is something wrong with having a relationship that doesn't include sex because the entire point of relationships is to have sex with someone you like. Waiting is just an irrational, nonsensical religious belief that guilts people into abstaining from their strongest desires so the church or whatever can absolve you of your sin and keep your loyalty and donations since them help you remove your guilt. The health benefits of safe sex and the pleasure you get from it is a no brainer.
Having sex before marriage is essential in my opinion because having good sex in a marriage or a relationship is one of the best predictors of long term success. If you wait till marriage and realize that the sex sucks with that person, then you probably aren't going to be lasting very long according to statistics. For both men and women, its like buying a new car from a lot without testing it and without having a warranty. if you get a lemon you're screwed.
Relationships and marriages last the longest and are the happiest when couples have good sex and also good communication/romance. Removing sex is like removing 50% of the purpose and benefits of marriage or relationships.
This traditional thinker nonsense really just means backwards religious guilt instilled into you from years of propaganda from your family/church/whatever. You're wasting your life by waiting. Have sex with someone you love and trust, fine, but why wait for marriage unless you have superstitious ideas that God gives a shit about what your private parts are doing. Give me a break.
And automatically everything you said is now discounted and not taken seriously when you said the whole point of a long term relationship where one would hope to marry and have kids with their significant other is to have sex with someone you like. Do you listen to the bullshit that comes out your mouth? O_O
Well first of all the alleged bullshit came out of my fingers, i don't have a speech to text engine. And no lol, not everything is discounted even if you disagree with that. What kind of stupid point is that? It would be like saying--"everything you written is now wrong and dumb because there are many chivalrous guys out there." I mean much of what you wrote is wrong but im not making some insane conclusion because of one statement. But to refute your point yeah the purpose is to have sex because that leads to kids and a successful continuous marriage herp derp. It also leads to the continuation of your genetic lineage. How long does a marriage last without sex? Please tell me how successful a sexless marriage is. Oh wait it isn't at all. Sex is essential to having kids generally. Do you think through your arguments before regurgitating them online? Now here's where you get butthurt, write what you think is a clever comeback (it won't be), and block me so I can't respond.
After seeing such a huge response from guys I almost don't feel like replying but who knows maybe this'll matter. I think the biggest problem here is perspective. Not all men (as I'm sure some of these guys have said) are like the ones you're describing. Second people tend to see the past through rose colored glasses. The internets not even 20 years old so the vast majority of people who've told you about the good ole days know little to nothing about the world outside of thier local area (or at least not nearly as much as they think) prostitution is the world's oldest profession, 25 50 years ago was consider old for having a child the world really hasn't changed as much as you'd think. You're not a traditionalist thinker you just like the fantasy that you've been sold about the past. Your an idealistic thinker. For every woman that was courted in the movies there were 10 in real life getting played by some wandering stranger. That's just life. I know that makes you unhappy but we don't get too choose how everything in the world works. You can only choose how you react. If you don't want sex before marriage say no and look for that guy who agrees. He may never come but that's not something you're in control of. Life's not a fantasy. If anything it's a tragic comedy. Learn to focus on the bright side before you make yourself miserable.
Its a double whammy that came with the sexual revolution. Feminism killed chivalry (plenty on that by the other responses). Secondly with women being able to have sex more openly, they could choose and unfortunately those nice chivalrous guys were not on the attraction list. So another thing happened: Men had to start playin women and what was once possibly a quality thing turned into a numbers game. I personally believe men should always have other options: i. e. never put all into one girl. The men struggling with women are all those chaps who were raised as pussies by their moms and those guys meet the criteria for "nice" and "loving" in a long term but they don't spark sexual chemistry and attraction, so they don't have a chance. And is a good women worth fighting for? I believe so, but if you gorgeous then I am up against a sea of other men and the fight isn't worth it especially if the dude is more handsome or well off than me. So... I have a tequila, say fuck it and play the numbers game.
And since women want equality... why don't you try chase or seduce a guy? I personally don't know what its like to be desired so I obviously get the hint you know what I saying?
"Men had to start playin women"
That BEEN happened. Nothing made men do that. Men were already doing it
SMh you men lol
@ThatGirLqueen no, men commanded women prior. Arranged marriages an shit. After the sexual revolution, women could choose and the golden rule then as is today, the majority girls go for the minority guys. But those minority were now exactly nice humble men. They were your bad boys. So men followed suit to various degrees. These are all generalisations and there are exceptions but that's how it panned out.
"no, men commanded women prior. Arranged marriages an shit. "
That was my point. Men played women and made them how they wanted them to be
Idc. I'm happy with my boyfriend of 3 year and 4 months. We werent virgins when we met either
I think that it goes both ways. Both men and women have the ability to be trash and unworthy human scums. I must admit though nowadays I don't really blame men for treating women like trash, women act like trash... it honestly makes me disgusted to be a woman. People expect too much from one another, too many labels have been given to each gender and its ridiculous. The truth is, if you're with a person that has no respect for you, man OR woman, they don't love you, or care about you, because love knows no hate, discrimination, no greed. Society just has a lack of empathy, many people don't truly care about people anymore unless they get a benefit. I wish that people could just learn to stop judging others and see each others as people not "whore women" "materialist women" or "disgusting pig men" "cheating men". I wish people would realize that both sexes are in the same position, its just what media and society chooses to highlight and label people as. Yes, many men wrongfully disrespect women, but many women wrongfully disrespect men too. There is too much rivalry going on between men and women. Everyone has some shit to say about how men are this and that and crying about how poor women are, and men saying women are this and that and crying about shitty women are. I know a lot of great men and women who don't fall under the list of "shitty people" and I choose to believe that there are more out there, if you know men or women that disrespect the others, disassociate yourself with them and be done with it. Thats the best thing you can do.
Firstly, what world are you talking about with "Men used to be required to court women for months, the holding of hands was almost unheard of and a kiss before marriage? Outrageous!" I resend was with my dad as he met up with some old college friends. They attended a Christian college together back in the mid 60's. It didn't take me long to figure out that their oldest sons age was the same as the number of years they've been married. When I asked my minister father about that he said the only difference between now and then was that you married a woman you got pregnant". People have always had pre marital sex and always will.
To your point. Woman demanded equality with men. They received it. Men took women off the pedestal they had previously been placed. We realized that she could easily be replaced with another woman. Why play silly games that we hate when we can find a likewise thinking female. As for marriage, I could stand to lose my house. Custody of my kids. Forced to pay alimony. Child support, even after she gets remarried and has his income to help raise the kids. While I'll be stuck working 80 hours a week to support two families if I choose to get remarried. Tell me why a traditional approach is beneficial to me.
I just dont feel motivated to chase. it's not nessesarily that I'm choosing not too. I just feel zero drive to do so.
Also let's say I do chase, and I pay to take a girl on dates and wait months for sex... Well when the girl does finally have sex with me, it's not like it will feel special. It's something 3-5+ other guys probably got on the first date after getting drunk and grinding with her at a party. Or maybe guys she hooked up with on tinder.
I don't feel motivated to work for something that is given away for free to random guys at parties or on tinder. I'm conflicted tho, on one side I wish I was the type of guy that girls want to hook up with but I know I'm the shy and boring guy who wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping with a stranger.
Girls have sex on the first date with the hot fun guys at parties and clubs. I'm just the boring reliable guy that would have to jump through hoops to get the sex the drunk guys at parties got for free. The guy they only want when its time to buy a house and raise kids.
So dating just doesn't interest me.
1. If guys stop using girls, we wouldn't NEED a reason to make a guy wait (to show he cares even though that can't be proven if he really did).
2. Guys have sex all the time so girls can too. Sexist much
3. " I don't feel motivated to work for something that is given away for free to random guys at parties or on tinde"
Are you kidding? I'm sure girls feel the sane way about guys having sex and giving it away to just anyone.
"Girls have sex on the first date with the hot fun guys at parties and clubs. "
Girls that do that, only want fun. Girls that want a SERIOUS relationship (when she's ready) doesn't. Any person with a brain would know that
Learn more girls before talking
women have no respect for themselves, so why are you surprised men do not have any respect for them either?
Your questions...
1. Why should a man invest his emotions and time and money into a relationship, meeting her emotional needs, if she won't even meet his sexual needs?
2. Personally, a lot of the virgins I met at college age were virgins for fairly clear reasons... they had some issues. Ugh.
3. Chivalry is something men in positions of power did towards ladies. We are in an age of equality, and most women do not deserve the title of "Lady" in any way shape or form.
4. That gets you friendzoned. I'm not even kidding. I was the sort of man you are wanting in this question back in my college days... got friendzoned. Decided to be more like the guys they were pining after, much to the chagrin of a girl who rejected me but when she found out I was chatting with her ex and learning, spat "Fine, be an asshole like him!" Got laid next week with a girl I didn't give a damn about. Felt way better than getting rejected by a girl I adored.
5. Same reason divorce statistics show husbands are dispensable to women. The less you care in a relationship the less you lose, and the less you have to lose.
This makes me so sad. Sigh. Thanks for your opinion anyways. I lol'd @ 2. And in their defense, beauty is not just skin deep ;)
No, that's not what I meant. I actually went on some dates with gorgeous virgins.
But after I went on dates with them, I could see why they were attractive and still virgins. Personal issues.
Ohh ok, sorry for assuming the worst... I'm soo accustomed to hearing guys judging girls on their looks that it was my immediate go to. Forgive me :D
The thing about that is, girls have it easier.
If your average girl wears her hair long, doesn't wear glasses and takes care of her face, then just exercises enough to stay at a decent weight (if your chin looks like a frog's throat bubble you're in bad shape) then she'll look decently attractive.
Men need charisma. Charm. Social skills.
Hmmmm... don't really agree with you there, I think it's 50/50. What you said there is work too that a girl has to do to seem attractive to me. The work men have to do is different but it's the same effort required on each side. The social skills, charm and charisma are suited to girls who like that as well as an average weight girl with long hair and no glasses are good for some men. There are so many variations in likes and dislikes across the board, and in so many combinations that just being you is a person's best bet to being found attractive. In my opinion of course lol.
Tell that to all the fat, obnoxious girls who rant that all men are pigs and shallow.
Women have a strong dislike of anything "fake" due to their instincts. But the thing is... most of the hot guys women love to sleep with?
They learned their skills. It's not "natural" it's learned from experience, just as a fit body comes from hours of working out.
An attractive man/woman is no more "natural" than a mercedes or a beautiful piece of glassware. Everything good and desirable in life takes practice and work and learning.
There are guys who want their woman with extra too, and don't like slim girls... And I'm not against self maintenance it's just the doing of it solely to be attractive is not right in my opinion. Doing it to be healthy is good or both is still good. Women struggle with social skills too, being introverted or extroverted has nothing to do with gender. Sigh this conversation has me convinced that somebody has put a serious scar on your heart or something. You seem very bitter towards women.
There are girls who like obese high school grads, too.
Yet we still recognize that a fit college grad with career goals is far more desirable and admirable.
I don't have any illusions about women. We're in a day when songs like these are top hits--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJhZnfke9f0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdneKLhsWOQ
I was raised by conservative parents... I was one of those guys at 18 who actually would have been okay waiting for marriage. (and no, I'm not fat or ugly... according to women, I'm a looker.) I thought girls didn't like jerks, or guys that pushed for sex, etc.
Then I joined reality.
My illusions about women being respectable people who want a guy who will treat them well and have each other's backs didn't fade away... women put those illusions to bed and smothered them with the pillow.
When I watched "The Dark Knight" I felt so sorry for Harvey Dent...
"You thought we could be decent men, in an indecent time!"
I have no idea what it is like living in an American culture, I'm from the Caribbean... so I guess it's different here. From what you guys describe USA seems like a scary place to me, where I'm at the situation is not so bad and girls don't go for jerks... what is more likely to happen is a girl will fall for a guy who pretends to be nice at first. Than when he gets her he shows his true colors. So if you drew your conclusions based on your environment and observations, i can't fault you... however I will say if something is being done wrongly, the better thing is always being the one who does it right, rather than the one who joins the crowd doing wrong. Just saying :)
"women have no respect for themselves, so why are you surprised men do not have any respect for them either?"
And how do women not have respect for themselves? The only I see as not having respect for themselves is the sexist ones and the ones that kiss men asses,
"Why should a man invest his emotions and time and money into a relationship, meeting her emotional needs, if she won't even meet his sexual needs"
So he can use her right? Men did it all the time though, nothing new
"most women do not deserve the title of "Lady" in any way shape or form. "
Why? Because we refuse to kiss your ass and bow down to do you because you're a man? Damn right
" Decided to be more like the guys they were pining after"
Sure lots of girls did the same and dont give af either
"Same reason divorce statistics show husbands are dispensable to women"
If I was married and my husband cheated on me, best believe I'm divorcing him
QA, look at @ThatGirLqueen, and you have another, equally excellent answer to your question of why men do not respect women.
It's not that i don't think women are worth it. I think they're still worth it, but amount of them that i considered "worth it" a decade ago has dwindled to a smaller number. This is largely due to the risks of marriage, and the power most women have if/when a divorce does happen. I do want to get married eventually, but i'm definitely in no rush. I don't really worry about the encroachment of feminism and what not because of how the future is forming in terms of the changes in the international monetary system, and the effects it will have on the U. S./Canada/UK etc.
Women will be the most affected because they by and large are majoring in degrees that even by todays standards are fairly obsolete/low paying... and when you know the direction of where we're headed in the next 5 years or so, those degrees will be even more obsolete. So when guys start bitching about women this and women that, i really don't get it half the time. They generally aren't in a good position, because what many of them are educated in isn't future proof, and hardly any women i know even bother investing their money, or know where it should be invested to prepare for the years ahead -_- If guys realized how good most of their positions actually are, they would bitch less and prepare more.
It's because there are so many poor women around who quite frankly don't deserve a good man, they are not good women and expect good men and then they hurt those good men and those good men then become bitter, frustrated and disillusioned and the negative cycle begins.
If men and women want to find good each partners then maybe they should start being good people themselves and let's be honest the modern day woman isn't really worth being with is she? She's self-entitled, she's demanding, she's hypocritical, she's easy and she offers a modern day man virtually nothing and the same can be said of a lot of men too.
I'm a good man and I want a good woman but even the self-proclaimed good women have hurt me in the past, so if all women are going to hurt me in some capacity then why even bother? If a woman is going to settle for me after ploughing half the city, then what incentive is there for me to even take women seriously?
Even you describe yourself as a traditional thinker living the modern world, you're a hypocrite and men are starting to stand up against the hypocrisy of good women want to keep men enslaved in their traditional gender roles while they can blur the lines of their own and mould into some hybrid model.
In what way has she made herself out to be a hypocrite? Are you saying she's a hypocrite for being born in the modern era? O_o
It's because there are so many poor men around who quite frankly don't deserve a good woman, they are not good men and expect good women and then they hurt those good women and those good women then become bitter, frustrated and disillusioned and the negative cycle begins.
Same can said about women
EVERYTHING you said is bullcrap. Women can say the same about men *roll eyes*
I'm a traditionalist but I don't blur the lines between that and feminism. I think it's really wrong for other females to want the best of both worlds. There is no in between for this it's either one or the other and for the people that expect in between then they need to expect their guy to want in between as well. You can't scream feminism and then expect a guy to pay for your date and hold the door open for you.
I agree with you, except that I actually said I'm more traditional, not "I'm traditional." I have realized from this take that GAGers are quick to jump to conclusions, then judge people on it. I understand it was most likely a mistake, it does not really bother me, it's just after seeing so many people seemingly attacking me for taking my "I'm more traditional" as "I'm traditional" I'm a bit tired. Sigh. But anywho, thanks for your opinion
1. There is nothing wrong with it, just relationships with sex are easy to come by.
2. Most guys would be flattered if a virgin chose them. Its extremely flattering to think a woman said no to all those other guys and waited for you her Mr. Right. Especially in todays society.
3. Chivalry is dead because feminism killed it. Anything traditional like that is viewed as toxic, and taboo.
4. What happened to not rejecting a guy before he can prove himself?
5. I have NEVER viewed women as highly dispensable. Some guys, the players, do, but a good woman completes me. Makes me feel whole, and not just physically. She makes colors seem brighter, sounds seem livelier, she lessens my suffering, and gives me new found confidence in myself that I have never had.
Oh my gosh I feel like the sky opened up and there was singing from the heavens... these guys here had me totally believing all was lost... you saved them, hope! Hope for humanity here. No 3. made me laugh cuz it's somewhat true but geez we need more you's in the world. And then too I did notice that the really negative opinion owners' age groups are low, so hopefully they change their views as they mature. I guess because you are older you understand more of what I'm speaking about. Thank you so much for your opinion. I didn't know it when I wrote this take, but after reading your opinion this is what I was looking for :)
Thank you for your kind words. Just speaking the truth. Glad I could help. I believe that women are totally worth it!
"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"
Because it goes against human nature for most people and is rooted in religion. If a person is not religious why would this matter to them. Sex is a natural part of life. If you want to wait that is your choice and should be respected. However it is no mans responsibility to also share that choice.
"Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?"
Outside of high school when everyone is struggling to find their own identity this rarely happens. I have dated two female virgins, one 24 and the other 34. I never once thought anything of it and no one they ever told looked down on them for it.
"Why is chivalry as good as dead?"
Sadly I think it is dieing. Generations are becoming more and more selfish and entitled. Also many men walk on eggshells in fear of the extremist feminists who think holding a door for a lady is sexist. So they are taught not to do that where as I was taught to do that.
"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?"
No man should have to "prove" them-self to a women. No women should have to "prove" them-self to a man. A relationship is not a test.
"Why are women so highly dispensible to men?"
Men AND women who are just out for some casual sex only want that. It doesn't mean they view the person as dispensable. They just don't want a relationship. They want short term fun and nothing else.
"Long and short of the story is I want to know why do men seem to no longer believe a good woman is worth fighting for or worth going through desert storms and pouring rain for... Why is quitting so easy now?"
Why is it you think a women should be a struggle? A fight? A healthy relationship is easy, its isn't a struggle or a fight. That should be the goal. Not someone you need to Prove yourself to or fight for.
"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"
Because a relationship is not friendship. And friendship is also not "proving yourself and fighting for and going through desert storms and pouring rain for".
You know when men and women had deep, loving, long term relationships without sex? Never. Back when 'courtship' was the norm, yes, men would court women for months, then get married. They'd be having sex with her within a few months. Men either had 'good intentions' (marriage and sex, soon) or bad intentions (sex without marriage). There was no concept that 'oh this guy probably wants to hang out with this girl and share feelings and cuddle a bit but nothing more for a few years'.
What changed? The birth control pill, longer educational pathways, and women entering workforce. The first allowed sex without children, which really made premarital sex much lower risk, the second two have pushed the desired age for marriage and having kids decades back from sexual maturity.
So we now have a 15-20 year stretch of sexually mature humans not wanting to get married.
". Men used to be required to court women for months, the holding of hands was almost unheard of and a kiss before marriage? Outrageous!!"
So back then women got free handouts until they deemed us worthy of their coochies then, right? Ya know Via us working 8-12 hours daily just to indirectly give our money to them.
Do you see how stupid that sounds for us as men tho? And any man who'd dare say "mist I'd love that lifestyle" should "build a bridge and get over it" as @gapminder would say.
"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?" or how about you broads start proving to us as men that you guys are worth more than the hole between yall's legs now, how about that?
https://oi63.tinypic.com/2vnnt5i.jpg
Yeay, you used the phrase! !!!
@gapminder YEah I had too man... LOL
you're disgusting just like every other male on this mytake. Good job
Mist shocked at this. Men should prove they are not just dicks
Exactly, women should bring something to the table more than their hole ''and still, they are enjoying sex too and its easy to have without relationship'' if not they can go find someone else
@Mistnigqa808 I agree with what you say. Regardless of gender we have to prove to one another that we have something else to offer. Its not just men and its not just women. We all play a part of plan.
Dropping truth bombs
@ThatGirLqueen Hey, I'm cool with being "disgusting". But what the heck are you then? Ya know besides a broad who's probably becoming scared/bitter about the fact that her "pussy" doesn't have as much power as it once did in this society? Ya know since niggas are no longer treating you, skanks like "gods gift to earth" anymore. Naw we're fucking and chucking you hoes on massive accounts 😂😂😂
@MysteriousChick93 Yes we should and women should have to prove that they're more than a "walking vaginas" to be fucked and chucked" 😂😂😂
@apple24 exactly/agreed
@TOKTOK Agreed, but as long as they have a "pussy" that'll usually be more than enough to survive... cuz there will always be some horndog willing to take her/them in for some "in-house pussy", right? We as men don't get that luxury ^_^.
@tyber1 I haven't seen you in a while LOL
Women are the one who open up an men are closed books we try very hard 🙄🙈
@ThatGirLqueen and you just proved you aren't worth it.
Then they wonder why we think they aren't worth it, girls like this who believe they can call all men disgusting and still get us to pay the bill, crawl for them and buy them expensive shit xD
@AleDeEurope She seems to be a over emotional troll of a GAGirl it seems... cuz she's on everybody's OP on this question #FuckThatSkank
Well said, dude. Well said.
@ThisDudeHere #2Pac we dont love these hoes #moment LOL
How bout if you different act like a bitch
@eatitlikegroceries LOL Okay Ill try
"Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?"
-Because sexual compatibility and everything that comes with it.
-It's not wrong so much as it is not for me.
-Marriage shouldn't change anything, if you think it does then you're not doing relationships right.
-See no reason to get married so there's nothing to wait for.
"Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?"
-It's more looked down upon in men, and women as virgins are seen positively if anything, but on the whole I think people just don't care.
-Traditional religious values very highly valued virginity in people. We don't have that anymore and I think it's for the best. It's not some magical thing, it's the same as not doing anything else. I've never bungee jumped, who cares?
"Why is chivalry as good as dead?"
-Yay for equality.
"What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?"
-When has proving yourself to the man been a thing? Perhaps there are a few exceptions so I'll say rarely rather than never... as if that makes it all ok.
"Why are women so highly dispensable to men?"
-In what context? Because I see this as absolute nonsense. What world are you living in?
Believing that women deserve these things and then feeling like something has gone wrong with the world when they don't get their special treatment is textbook entitlement.
"women as virgins are seen positively if anything'
Its seen as positive because men want to be the first to 'beak her'
"When has proving yourself to the man been a thing?"
Since forever. All women did was please men.
virginity is actually a god thing for LTR/Marriage.
"Its seen as positive because men want to be the first to 'beak her'"
Break her has negative connotations, which I don't think is the case. It's cool to be first and from an evolutionary perspective I think it makes sense to be a little attracted to the idea. But it's not a desire to "break her," to 'spoil' or degrade her with our 'filthy maleness.' Again, women as virgins are seen positively if anything.
"Since forever. All women did was please men."
I really doubt that. We know there is a historical convention of men proving themselves, we're still dealing with it even now. But what is there to convince me that women prove themselves more than guys? If you think you do it, then what do you do? If not, then why are you exempt from doing it?
@Roostah And men made up the god thing to control people through a book
@ThatGirLqueen i'm not going to get into religious/atheist debate with you. Stay on topic.
@ThatGirLqueen People made up the god thing.
@Roostah You made the statement, I addressed it
I see guys as being virgins as a good thing also. I would love to be a guy's first but sadly I'm a virgin and my boyfriend is not. I still love him though
"We know there is a historical convention of men proving themselves, we're still dealing with it even now'
Not true. Little girls were already taught to please men. there's not need to prove it. Everyone with a brain knows women were property and they couldnt prove themselves for nothing because there was always another submissive pushover willing to do whatever that man wanted her to.
" But what is there to convince me that women prove themselves more than guys? If you think you do it, then what do you do? If not, then why are you exempt from doing it?"
1. Again, women were property and there was always submissive pushover women willing to do what the guy wanted.
2. I believe respect is earned. If a guy prove he won't use me, I'll give him all the love to give PERIOD
@ThatGirLqueen
1. Is that a fact? Says who? And I said 'more than guys,' we probably all had stupid cultural expectations, but I don't see one gender's experience being a cakewalk relative to the other at the time.
2. So if respect is earned, then earn my respect. I can replace guy with girl and throw that back at you.
@ThatGirLqueen I agree that many women see virginity as positive, but the point is it's more negatively seen in men than women, even if overall they are both viewed positively.
1. Yes its a fact
2. True but who started it again? Who cheated first? Who used who?
@ThatGirLqueen
'It's a fact because I say so and reasons.'
This info comes from a reliable source I trust, hmm? I don't buy it. Guy's experiences were a cakewalk then? Bull.
Who cheated first? What are you even talking about? I thought we were discussing attitudes and conventions surrounding the courting process.
Equality is making relationships evolve. You gain stuff but you also lose stuff. That goes for both men and women. What you are looking at is mostly what women are losing to make gains elsewhere. I mean I think most men don't like it much either but you can't have it both ways. I don't think that men think women are no longer worth it, I just think they don't think women are worth what they once were worth. I think the same can be said about men though, with no longer having to be sole providers for example. Men have their loses from it as well, such as it becoming harder to find a woman who hasn't slept around or more competition for jobs. I know at times it really sucks but you got to hope it is for the better. Either way you have to go with it since it probably isn't going to go back to the way it was.
Point taken! I mostly agree with you here... The exception is I do think having it both ways is possible, as long as there's a gentleman and a lady in the relationship.
I don't think you can have it both ways, since if you could then that isn't equality. I think the situation you described is one where you either comply to the standards as they use to be where men got more out of the relationship than women or a new way where women get more out of the relationship than men, or it least it would be that way based on how society is now. Either way I think it would be hard to find a mate willing to accept either of those standards while being on the losing end of the benefits involved, especially in this day and age.
The way it would balance off is he compromises sometimes so she gets more and then she compromises sometimes so he gets more out of the relationship. If either of them is more selfish then the balance will be off, hence the point that is must be a gentleman and a lady. But that is hard to find these days... hence this take on the subject of the lack of true gentlemen.
" I just think they don't think women are worth what they once were worth"
And what were they once worth lol? Being property?
"Men have their loses from it as well"
What have men lost?
"becoming harder to find a woman who hasn't slept around "
Men sleep around ALL THE TIME. Women can too. If men can't handle it, owell
1. Why do men believe something is wrong with having a relationship that would not include sex unless they get married?
Ans: Because times change. At this time we realize that there is no point in spinning around a girl for months/years and spending tons of your hard earned money on her if you can't touch her only because both of you are not married. If we men are to fap in the bathroom while being in a relationship then what is the fucking point of having a relationship?
2. Why are virgins looked down upon, being a woman's first is no longer a good thing?
Ans: Any pussy is a good pussy for men. Whether it's a virgin pussy or experienced pussy, men would love to penetrate it. Maybe we men realize that life is short so we must fuck the pussy at hand & not wait for a virgin pussy to be available (hah - as if there are so many virgins available these days) *sarcasm*
3. Why is chivalry as good as dead?
Ans: Time factor. In past, women were treated like treasure, something to be taken care of, something to love, something to respect. But in present time, women are being treated like commodity. It's their own fault. They sell themselves by showing their skin. And as you know in this time both men and women earn money, there is no need to show extra respect. Economically, both are strong and this society is very much economy-centric.
4. What happened to proving yourself to the woman, proving that you are really interested in her?
Ans: Girls are also reason behind this. Girls who have high libido tend to make the first move and the trend follows. Why would men try so hard if girls are readily available to date/fuck?
5. Why are women so highly dispensible to men?
Ans: They always were. You seem to notice this because the true nature of men are no longer hidden.
I think your first mistake is thinking that a man has to "go through" something and "fight" for you. Be an adult in the situation, be an equal, someone doesn't and shouldn't have to cater to you just because you're a woman and he's a man.
Also i'm going to have to disagree with the "women/feminism created this problem" "you can't have it both ways" opinions. I think it's perfectly fine/acceptable to be strong and independent in certain situations but not so much in other ways. I don't see why a woman couldn't pay for her own meals and not need a man financially while he can still be polite and chivalrous towards her. One doesn't cancel out the other. I can pay for my own meals and still respect a man, so why can't women have it that way as well?
I also think it's just more of a problem with people lacking respect for each other in general.
The issue isn't respect, women have always been respected.(men would fight, often to the death, to defend a womans reputation) its that you cannot treat a woman as meek one moment and an equal another. It would be like expecting a child to act like an adult some times but then not others. What situations arise that would be exceptable for a child to act like a child, or to act like an adult? Same thing with women, men are expected to pamper her like she needs help but then other times with no clear indication of when, he is expected to treat her as if she is fully capable. Meanwhile men are treated the same way, doesn't matter when or where it is always the same, always consistent. That is the issue.
Well, I understand how it's confusing to some men but it's no different than all of the other trivial shit people go through when they're getting to know someone and their personal preferences while dating, I think it depends on the individual honestly.
I still don't understand how paying for my own meal would void a guy being nice to me or why I "can't have it both ways", when i'm fully capable of giving it both ways as well.
I don't see why you can't treat a person (male or female) as "meek" in certain aspects but as an equal still. You wouldn't treat an older person as less than an equal just because they're not physically capable of doing things to the degree that you do them.
Your last example about the elderly simply cannot apply to this situation. I would like another example please if you don't mind :)
I'm not really good with examples lol. All i'm saying is there's no reason why you can't be respectful to someone even though they have physical differences. There's no reason that women can't "have it all". Men can have it all, men can work, survive, be independent and have a faithful/respectful girlfriend who does nice things for them without having it thrown in their face. But as soon as a woman works and pays for herself, she's considered "independent", she apparently created a problem. She now needs to pick between having someone be chivalrous to her and having a faithful/respectful boyfriend or by financially supporting herself (you know kind of like, how all adults should...).
I just don't understand why or how a woman being financially independent, changes the dynamic of the relationship. How paying for your own bills and choosing to pay for your own meal, some how black list you from having your chair pulled out and being in a loving respectful relationship. If you have issues respecting a woman just because they have a career then you're probably just a jerk to begin with.
I would also love to know the alternative to not being an "independent" woman these days? It's pretty much required because we're all adults and we're all required to provide for ourselves. What else are woman supposed to do? Are we supposed to live with our rich fathers throughout our adult life, while we date around to find a guy to marry just so he can financially support us now? I just have difficulty understanding.
Most men have lost their sense of morals just like most women have lost their sense of womanhood. If women aren't going to adhere to a standard then why should men? Most women I know have "given up on men" too. I read their Facebook posts all the time they act like the world's against them and suddenly when they have another boyfriend they act like nothing happened and life is perfect. Then when they breakup they post the same previous shit.
The bottom line is it has become less common to find decent, normal people with compassion and values. This includes men and woman. Society is slowly breaking apart, without roles and order there is only chaos. If you want to find a good man all I can say is Good Luck, and I could use some myself to find a good woman.
This is true... sad, but true. Tbh I am at the point where I've joined that group that has somewhat given up too. I'm not closed to men, I'm simply not looking for one... never really was looking in the first place; poured my heart and soul into a man (met as teens) for 8 years and now I'm tired, and I'm done for now. But thanks anyways and good luck to you too :)
"why do men seem to no longer believe a good woman is worth fighting for or worth going through desert storms and pouring rain for?"
This is where you're wrong. We do believe that a good woman is worth everything you listed and more. I'd dare say that the vast majority of men believe this in their core.
The dichotomy between your perspective and ours boils down to this - women think that they are worth it just because they are women, where as men are starting to realize that we have other options.
If you want us to think of you and value and treasure you as a good woman, then first you must be a good woman to us, by us. Be awesome to us, in ways that we appreciate, and I promise you that there will never be a shortage of men who are still willing to lay down their lives for you.