What's the Deal with MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way)? (Page 2)
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MGTOW is basically a movement where men are tired of the nonsense that today's society has against men, so they go their own way. They do as they please. I don't see anything wrong, so why does this bother you? Swearing off marriage DOES help men. More men are realizing what it is and are not getting married. Since the first census, majority households are unmarried. Think of it as boycotting or not purchasing a product from a certain company. More people come together by the time you know it, the company will have a major loss in profit and thus adjust itself appropriately. By the way, there is a FGTOW if you didn't know and they are the same. Something to think about, how many men AND women do you hear or see turn guy due to frustrations of dating? I've seen it a lot. It's no different. Sometimes, I don't blame them. There is no benefit for a man to get married, so why do it?
I almost forgot to mention the herbivore men in Japan. They are doing something in a similar manner. Certain choices that people/society make have domino effects. That's to be expected. This is one of the effects.
im not an MGTOW'er but i do believe it is not about hurting women. i have actually personally contacted the email address of their official site and asked them some questions.
i asked them how i was going to be able to reproduce if were to be an MGTOW'er and they said that it was not possible to do that. the also told me that many of them are already divorced and already have children, which leads me to the conclusion that these men just want to be peaceful and want to be left alone, hence the fourth level being completely disconnected from society.
I know a lot of people like that and it's understandable, but they also aren't rejecting all women including any type of sex with women. I'm the last person to be like every man or woman should re-marry after a bad divorce, but you can live a life with women without marrying them.
you said in your mytake that they should reject all women if the want to and you are not opposing them or believing there will be negative consequences for women i am assuming. that is probably true. dating for women will never be a problem, they dont have to do the approaching.
And I'm sticking by that statement because it's absolutely true. People, any people, are going to chose to date or not date, no matter what I have to say about it, but just trying to get more of your perspective on it, more so reflected in my own thoughts, since you went so far as to call in and try and figure it out yourself.
you know, i just hope i can find a girl, thats all. thats all i want really.
You want to VICE. com instead of MGTOW. com. That's funny.
Here is what a MGTOW site says about themselves.
Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: “No”. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a “man” is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn’t.
Nice, that's quite well said. Men are precious.
I agree that MGTOW holds some very radical (stupid, whiny) beliefs and ideals that borderline sociopathy but I'm not going to claim they don't raise some very good points.
I personally don't consider myself an "MGTOW member" but I share many of their ideologies.
I don't reject women or relationships with them, I reject "standards" that benefit other people over myself, be it in relationships or anything else.
Im gay so no interest in marriage, but talking to older guys who have been divorced I can't honestly suggest that any man get married. The risks and ramifications are simply not worth it. Even when you take the "ideal" couple (both with a 4 year degree or more, married after age 25, both earning $80,000 or more per year) their divorce rate is still 35% and 58% of marriages never make it past 10 years.
That said, I don't get these mgtow guys. They look like a bunch of man-children to me. If you dont want to get married or view it as too risky then fine don't get married but why put all the blame on women? It takes 2 to tango... For all of their "we're ignoring women and going our own way" spiel they sure do seem to spend a lot of time talking about nothing but how horrible women are.
If you're going your own way then go your own way and shut up.
A very good balanced take , there are a lot of factors at play here. Many men do perceive women as far less attracted to men ( if at all ) , than vice versa , so there can be a " I will never be wanted anyway , so why even bother " type mindset. I'm permanently single because of my chosen situation as a FT working single dad , do not have the time , money & often the energy or inclination to go dating , also from a woman's POV... NO woman will want a mid forties guy with baggage , i'm well aware of that too
women always had the control in dating, relationships and sex. and yet girls treat guys like shit, what else are these poor guys supposed to do. no one wants to love them. girls just want to mistreat them and use them.
seriously, if a bee stings you, are you going to say, "sting me some more?" the answer to that is no, you'd want to run the hell out of there. and since its too common for women to treat guys like we're garbage, guys are obviously going to fear women.
I h8 radical feminism. Those females (not 'real' women) are just immature little girls dressed up as adults. They shun women who want to be housewives when they themselves aren't even capable of doing their jobs properly (which usually takes place in an office). So the result is that nothing gets done effectively at home or at work, which makes them look incredibly dumb for thinking they can run society.
I agree with the MGTOW in a nutshell picture
That's really about it though. I agree with their core sentiments, but a lot of them take it too far
Far too many people read takes like this, who's entire basis is made off an anti-mgtow website, and they jump on it, or they go in defensive and call it misogyny
I went in with an open mind, and found that the behaviors they pointed out that I found to be true in my observances got called to be misogyny
I rejected the label though, because it's just far too negative of an outlook on the world.
It's just the socially awkward neckbeards who hate women. It's basically them saying "You can't reject me! I quit!". If they actually worked on themselves into being people that women actually wanted to be with then there would be no problem. They are the male version of the "feminazi". Both MGTOWs and Feminazis hate the other gender/sex because of a lack of success in dating, and therefore want to ruin it for everyone else too. The classic crybully
Great goddamn point.
@Cryostatic Thank you, it's like these people are so full of themselves they can't conceive that maybe, just maybe, other people aren't the problem. They are.
Nailed it
It's Men Getting Tired Of Women.
They can have many reasons:
Closeted gays.
Avarice (not wanting to spend money on a date with a girl, preferring a strip tease bar)
Guys who failed to get a girlfriend and hide their failure behind the MGTOW mask.
Divorced guys who have a grudge against their ex (es) and hate the alimony and child maintenance costs, thinking their ex spends all of it on herself
Guys who fear the above
Personal reasons they don't want to disclose, like a tiny penis
Just plain misogyny
And so on... many more possible reasons.
do you think there is a reason to be in mgtow that you could say to yourself, if a guy told me that, then hmm, I could see that as a valid reason for joining?
All things considered, monks are a sort of MGTOW.
Misoginy excepted, I understand why men would join the MGTOW platoon.
None of the are anything else than just human in my eyes.
Anonymous are never to be taken seriously.
Cowards using anonymity as a mask to evade backlash.
I am tired of seeing MGTOW bullshit, nothing but bullshit and whining.
You should first educate yourself about it, dude.
The way I always saw it was that MGTOW was a way to respond to social media and dating apps.
By withholding their interest in women, they shift power back to men because women's greatest strength is in being less interested in men than men are in women.
Get rid of that, and you take away women's greatest power to be picky. That's what it was always about. How? Men go MGTOW. It's the only way to cut the cord and cause that shift in dynamics. If all men did MGTOW, for instance, then one side would need to eventually crack sooner or later. The goal of the movement would be to have straight women crack first.
You can thank feminism and society for the creation of that group.
They are just a bunch of woman hating loser MRAs. They keep droning on about how unfair marriage is to men but they cannot man up and take care of a woman. They are perpetual children who want to play video games all day.
If more men go MGTOW I think we should have a single man's tax until they marry again. We should just force men to marry.
I wouldn't want to force anyone to marry me, but I think more than anything, my last paragraph rings true. The few that actually do something about that are actually the ones advocating for their own rights, but all else are just basically whining or ditching the system that continues to exist regardless of them ditching it, which does nothing for the problems they claim they have.
FYI, the legal battles have long been lost. Right now we're just safely removing ourselves from the punishing legal consequences of failure. Really! It's about time that the marriage scam was trampled and destroyed for being the historic relic that it actually is...
"Really! It's about time that the marriage scam was trampled and destroyed for being the historic relic that it actually is... "
Um, it's not being destroyed. If nothing else, religion will keep that fire burning well into the decades of your lifetime to come, but sure if you don't want to get married... than absolutely, 100%, don't get married.
If you do some basic research you'll find that today's marriage rates are at an all time low and that young men are running away from marriage in droves. For decades feminists have been telling women that sex is rape, the family is dysfunctional and that Christianity is bigoted. As a result, modern day divorce laws reflect these attitudes and more and more women have been cashing in on the corruption. MGTOW is only taking these destructive societal changes to their logical conclusion. It's very sad really...
All that may be true for you, but there are people that still choose to get married, and not all of them are catastrophic disasters as this group seems to portray all marriage as. I come from a long line of family who are happily married. I think in our entire family, only 2 persons have gotten divorced, and they've since both re-married. This is not me saying YOU should get married. People get married because they want to. This group seems to think that guns were pointed at the heads of all these thousands of men and they were forced to sign on the dotted line. As one guy said, it's a gamble everyone takes that things will or won't work out, and sometimes, they don't. Knowing those odds, you have a choice what you want to do with your life, but to paint all marriage as only benefiting women or just horrible with no redeeming qualities is a very skewed look at a big picture. It's easy to say marriage sucks when you've never been in a good one!
Actually, I was in a good marriage but I'm widowed now. So I know that it can work.
The problem is, over the years I've seen too many super ego bitches, to much materialism, to many jealous and insecure women and to much betrayal on the part of women to feel safe getting into another marriage. The fact of the matter is, right now women don't need a husband anymore because they've already gotten married to either the corporation or to the government. That's why I say that today marriage is a historic relic. At one time marriage was a Christian sacrament outside of the control of government and the corporations and that's why it worked for thousands of years. However, today government and the corporations have undermined the husbands place in the family to the extent that marriage has become a risky financial decision. Women destroyed marriage and it's women who will have to fix it. It will be interesting to see if marriage becomes important again after the economic collapse.
Marriage sucks. I was in a great one. Until two years in and she showed her true colors (not wanting to work, chronically negative, only interested in money). Go level 0 or 1 MGTOW: date, interact, and sleep with women on your own terms. Keep your cash, get a vasectomy, and use all of your time how you want to use it.
I wasn't aware that's what the "take the red pill" was all about. I've heard it used in different circles lately. Just sounds like another group sticking with victim mentality. It sucks that these men have fallen to this point. They can do better for themselves than they are now.
Taking the red pill is basically having an understanding of male/female relationship, behavior and some of the crazy shit people do or their preference. For example - Why do women still care about height and think it makes them feel safer when a guy with a guy can easily kill your tall boyfriend if he was going to mug you?
@BubbleBoy69 "think it makes them feel safer". They don't think it, because it's a feeling lol. They do "feel" safer whether or not that's true.
I'm sure you're also aware of that it references the idea of the Matrix: "You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." So the idea of "taking the red pill" is them thinking of themselves as unplugging from the mainstream where women are apparently totally in control, and, well, I guess, going their own way.
I was always well aware of the Matrix reference lol. I was just curious how it was being used outside of that. I've recently heard it used as unplugging from "social conditioning", which is more so about group think. Not accepting the ideas society feeds us, when the truth is very much to the contrary.
Then supposedly MGTOW's reference to it is similar to that, but they take it to the point of saying women suck and we should vacate them. As opposed to working in society and thriving, with the understanding of truth. That's why I feel like they can do better. Because if you "really" know the truth. Then you know how to play the game. You know the rules of play. They're basically flipping the board game over and walking away from the table, which is a bad way to live life.
Well, I have to make sure now these days with pop culture references because you get people who have never seen these things you may think everyone has seen. I very much agree with your comments. Walking away, and essentially boycotting women could work to affect some change, but it would have to be done at such an intense level, which given the structure of the levels within the groups and the people already in relationships, it's pretty much unlikely, so what has happened is as they suggest, self preservation. The one guy who actively does this sure has all his money in his bank and lives like hermit distancing himself from society, but other than the "all your own money" thing, I don't see these guys out curing cancer by themselves or inventing some next big thing in droves also as suggested by having all this freedom and time and considering they probably wouldn't share if they did because they would want to distance themselves from society... where does that even lead?
"Then supposedly MGTOW's reference to it is similar to that, but they take it to the point of saying women suck and we should vacate them. As opposed to working in society and thriving, with the understanding of truth. That's why I feel like they can do better. Because if you "really" know the truth. Then you know how to play the game. You know the rules of play. They're basically flipping the board game over and walking away from the table, which is a bad way to live life."
No not about women suck but the deal men often get is bad from society. Society builds on slave labour of men and sacrifice of men. Normally, men were cool with this because they were respected by people but today it's basically socially acceptable to demonize and ridicule men and you can see this on tv shows too where men are made to look like idiots while women are wise.
So men are opting out of it.
@BubbleBoy69 I think that's really simplifying things in your favor. I can name dozens of tv shows where women come off as total vapid idiots, or out of control, or only sexual beings... and I could blame all of society, or some producers, but those things exist. Bad women exist. Bad men... exist, but not every woman, and not every man, which is the major flaw in both women and men who like to just paint the world with one broad stroke. If women want rights and if men want rights, like every other disenfranchised group in this world, you've got to fight for them, because otherwise, you fall in the same boat with the so called feminazi's who whine and moan on the internet, but don't actually get anything done to help themselves or their cause. No one is going to give you anything... sympathy, rights, etc. sitting in a corner by yourself complaining. No movement for change has ever been won that way.
@BubbleBoy69 the comment about demonizing men on tv is 100% true. But you're saying, "men used to be respected" by? Women lol. All that is left is children.
But yes, thanks for clarifying. It's the deal of society. Not women themselves.
You can't have a corrupt movement like Feminism for decades and not have some kind of back lash. MGTOW is a logical response to that corruption, even if it is kinda cringe worthy in some ways.
Do you like Jaguars? Been meaning to ask you.
@BubbleBoy69 Some of them yes, I worked with a guy who had a 96 Jag and I really liked it. I prefer the convertibles though like the 66 E type or the XKR from die another day, I'm not a super fan or anything. I just needed an easy name when I made this account.
Well done.
For my part, I get it but I don't necessarily agree with the message or the means of spreading that message. I think too many of the members don't fully understand the core tenets, either, which doesn't help.
All I see is another movement that fosters division and separatism, which doesn't really help anyone in the long run.
I think it's kind of ironic actually because in many ways even though they are fighting against it, it is a lot like the current feminist movement in that there is supposed to be this core central message and things to follow, but there is so much misdirection, misunderstanding, and re-interpretation of what the message is supposed to be, that the valid points that might exist within these core groups, tend to get lost in the shuffle. Plus, as many members soon find out by their own admission, they have no desire to get to levels 2 and above or find it nearly impossible to sustain, and even less have a desire to be level 4s... because, crazy.
yeah its a toxic movement and all but your society is more crazy. i dont see all antisocial behaviors as crazy since society is toxic and unnatural itself. and not all these men can be insane. there must be a reason it was created. they expose some really legit bs some of you women make men go through. maybe it should be a "men stay away from toxic women" movement and not put a whole gender in the same sack... . but even then, only with constructive dialogue or simple silence and abstinence. the hate campaigns dont hep their purpose, they only feed and justify their enemies... . if i were a woman though i'd wonder why men go through that process of making such a movement. did i contribute to that somehow?
@supernerd99 Nice points there. Well... as a woman... the problem with that last question is to sort of assume that we are all some sort of problem which is actually one of my issues with this movement. It can't actually be true if not for the fact that there are lesbians and abstinent nuns who for vastly different reasons, would be the female equivalent of MGTOW and somewhat incapable of contributing to the problems this group maintains exists in all women. It also doesn't really allow for there to be dialogue and change with these problems, many I acknowledge myself like issues with fathers and custody that do exist. When the goal of the group is just to shut women out, and then shut law and society out, where does that leave those men? In the example of custody... that doesn't invite people to want to then give them custody if they don't even want to be a part of that world to begin with. There are a lot of contradictions.
I think our collective goals as man and woman should be to absolutely try our best to avoid toxic people. Yes, anti-toxic people movement! I will back that up! You don't want to get married or have kids, I'd back that up to, because that's a personal choice, which many of these same men seem to have forgotten... they said I Do without a gun to head. They had kids without a gun to head. Take responsibility for ones own actions.
well yes. i also agreed with the "if all women are evil do u discard ur mothers, sisters and daugters as well"?
but i disagree with the argument that they deprive themselves from sexual happiness. for some of them the price they have to pay materialistically and emotionally is way too high to get there, and certainly not everyone has the same libido/need for it. they might not feel they lose much, maybe they even think they lose more with the interaction with you and its not woth it.
as for the root of the problem argument, i think their tactics aren't completely useless, if many men join mgtow this will make many of these women rethink their values. BUT, still if we want better people, we need better education and better families. if a woman was raised as a sociopathic manipuplator, a gold digger, or became slutty as an emotional escape due to some inner void, no abstinence of men will transform her life essentially. the problem is indeed deeper... .
It will take tons of division and separation in order to break the stranglehold that feminism has on our society. That's why we're totally committed...
@supernerd99 Um, just a side bar here in this whole all women may or may not be evil thingy; while all women everywhere should all be apparently owning up to our collective destruction of man, where is the responsibility that men play in this? Where is the discussion about men who leave their biological children in the dust or are bad husbands to begin with, or are abusers, or worse. Every marriage that dissolves is not caused by a woman, and you know that. Any sane and rational person knows that. This is why I can't take all or nothing arguments all that seriously because it's denying facts. This group is implying that man is infallible. That a group of men on a planet devoid of women would make no mistakes, would have no strife, would accomplish more than they ever could... but if movies have taught us anything, it's that usually those type of situations end in cannibalism, lol.
"where is the responsibility that men play in this?"
A few things MGTOW know:
1. 70% of divorces are initiated by women.
2. 90% of divorces are initiated by a woman is she has a college degree.
3. By and large, women (we use the term) lack "agency." They blame, get angry, turn things around, etc. Generally speaking, its very easy for them to not take any sort of responsibility.
I hope that helps, but it probably won't.
@JPDG13 There are other statistics as well. Did you know that if a woman gets a cancer diagnosis and she enters a support group, the first thing they tell her is to prepare for her partner or spouse to leave. This is because 90 percent of men bail when this happens.
... doesn't speak well of men. Many other stats don't, either. Really just depends on which ones you choose to take into consideration.
@Fathoms77
When you get a chance, Google, "The Real Sexism." Let me know what you find.
Also, try Googling, "The Rational Male." I would encourage you to read every article on his site, starting with the best of year one.
I'd post links, but I cannot yet do that.
@JPDG13 I get it. Like I said, you can ignore or choose not to believe the other statistics if you like. That's entirely your prerogative.
@Fathoms77 I understand that both men and women do very dickish things in relationships (including what you mentioned). I'm guessing I want to stay on topic as to why men are choosing not to get married, go their own way, and not share resources with women.
@JPDG13 That's not "staying on topic." That's just a skewed way of presenting an argument, which is precisely what MGTOW is all about.
If someone's disengagement from a franchise fosters "division" and "separatism" then that is not their problem. It's their right to go their way, even if that means they become distrustful of someone else.
@ThisDudeHere They have every right to do as they please, provided that action doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
But yes, it absolutely IS their fault because they're merely contributing to and in fact exacerbating the problem by leaving. Running away like a coward solves nothing, and neither does separatism.
It's not anyone's responsibility to solve anything. I'm not MGTOW myself but I agree with a lot of their points. And a point they are correct about is that the problems in society are not their's to fix. So it's not their fault if they disengage.
@ThisDudeHere Not theirs to fix? I hate to tell the MGTOWs this, but I'd say a fair portion of the current problems can be laid at the feet of men. They can at least aim to fix those issues, yes? Unless we're saying men are entirely blameless...
Go tell a guy who lost everything in court to his cheating wife that it's his responsibility to "fix" problems. Or a guy who saw that happen to someone in his family or among his friends. Really. Go.
Besides, there's no point in trying to fix anything if feminists will work to undo it.
@ThisDudeHere Not what I was talking about all, now is it? I know the courts are biased in favor of women; we all do. Know what else? If a woman files a restraining order against a man, it's essentially meaningless; in fact, rates of abuse, injury, rape and even death actually INCREASE after a restraining order is issued. So that right there is another aspect of the current legal setup that's broken, right? Nothing, especially in this issue, is one-sided.
You seem determined to be bitter and blame women for everything. I'm just saying men should at least try to fix what they can control; i. e., try and be the best they can be. They're not doing that. Their answer is to throw up their hands and quit. Is it any wonder women see men as children these days?
@JPDG13 Very interesting. I didn't know that 90% of divorces are initiated by a woman if she has a college degree. I'll have to look into this. Thanks for sharing...
"You seem determined to be bitter and blame women for everything"
-Now you are throwing ad hominens. It's not my intention to be bitter, asshole. I was merely pointing out how, logically and objectively speaking, they have asbolutely zero responsibilities to fix anything.
"I'm just saying men should at least try to fix what they can control"
-I agree. And that is exactly what MGTOWs are doing - fixing their life in a way they think works, ie. by avoiding women. And apparently, it does work for many - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.
"Their answer is to throw up their hands and quit."
-What use is it to continue playing a game that is rigged against you?
" Is it any wonder women see men as children these days?"
-To them it is highly irrelevant what women think - they don't interract with said women so their opinion is not worth anything.
@ThisDudeHere "Now you are throwing ad hominens. It's not my intention to be bitter, asshole."
Congrats on proving my point about all hateful MGTOWs better than I could've ever done. You all eventually break down and call people names, which is why anyone with a brain sees this "movement" for what it really is.
"Congrats on proving my point about all hateful MGTOWs"
-Congrants on missing the part where I'm said I'm not one. And kudos to continuing with your ad-hominens.
And you were the one to call me bitter.
And it's not a movement as much as it is an ideal/state of mind.
"Congrats on proving my point about all hateful MGTOWs better than I could've ever done. You all eventually break down and call people names, which is why anyone with a brain sees this "movement" for what it really is."
What point did he prove? Just for saying he's not trying to be a bitter, asshole? How is that name-calling? He did not even actively tried to attack her, he refuted her claims and you are accusing him of being hateful.
Yet YOU on the other hand did insulted him.
"... which is why anyone with a brain sees this "movement" for what it really is."
No mate, anyone with a brain would understand and acknowledge the reason MGTOW exist instead of branding them as yet another "misogynistic hate group filled with whiny, bitchy, man-children". Anyone with a brain would also understand how rigged the system is and why they are simply just avoiding it or at least working around it. Not just we don't trust women, we don't trust the system that benefits them and exploits men.
@LordIheanacho Blah blah blah, I can't get a date and I'll justify that any way I can.
The sad part isn't the pathetic cowardice of the idea, but the depressing fact that its members don't even see how transparent they're being. Sad.
@LordIheanacho By definition, this is a misogynistic group. The whole premise is misogynistic. If not the government and how it is this group believes its stacked up against them, its ALL women. All women are out to get you, to destroy you, to take advantage of you, to ruin marriages, etc. etc. (See: misogyny). I, like Fathoms, even a woman can admit that certain systems and such have major flaws and issues when it comes to dealing with, but when the opposite is pointed out to this group... men who do leave their children, rape stats, abuse stats, men who cheat and ruin their own relationships, etc... all of a sudden this group pulls up some more stats about how women are the sole problems of everything on earth. Both sides have issues and running from them is not going to solve them.
You refusing to deal with women or the legal system does NOT actually improve the legal system or your dealings with women. All it says, is, I give up, am going to say I no longer care, but I'm going to spend every waking minute complaining about it to other members of this group who proport that they equally "don't care." How does this help you as I pointed out... these things are going to continue to exist until YOU actually make active efforts to do something other than ignore them.
This is why a lot of people view this group as a bunch of whiny man children. You say women blame you for every single thing that happens in life, yet, irony, you turn around and blame women for every single thing that happens in your lives whether you did it, participated, contributed to it, or not.
Believe it or not, there are a lot of people like myself willing to listen and want to help find better solutions for things like custody battles that are largely one sided for the very reason that I've seen male friends go through it, but if you're going to essentially tell me to go f--k myself because I'm a woman, guess what, no one is going to care about your cause or want to hear you out. This movement is counter-intuitive to progress or change. It's exactly as suggested, self preservation in a box by yourself with the bitterness many of this group seem to exhibit.
There are dickish women and men out there, but there are also ones that want to help, that do care, and don't destroy people for the sake of destroying them. ANY sane and rational person knows that.
I think you're wasting your time because these people are neither sane nor rational.
How the fuck does someone like you become a admin when you're this narrow minded?
This group and feminism both ridiculously ignore the nature of sexuality. Feminism ignores that woman have complete power in the dating/mating game. You can deny this, but that just being delusional. Antifeminism ignores that men have tried in the past to curb this power through harm (in some cases) and domestic control. The reality is that sexuality is not ever going to be a happy place where we can all get along. Men are doomed to a certain sexual anxiety in their lives, and women a certain emotional anxiety about love and commitment. That's just nature. We can all try to work and try to love each other despite it, and that's the beauty of life.
And I'll add that we care a lot about accurate biology except when it comes to feminism. I don't think women are inferior to men by any means, and political equality is a must. But the different sexual attitudes of the women and men are completely determined by sex. Feminism is great except for disagreeing with this important idea; it's because social critiques in feminism have sloppily appropriated post-structural/lfrench linguistic philosophy and tries to convince us that gender doesn't exist (in all cases).
I actually love MGTOW and I want them to spread to as many men as they can. If they go there own way that just means less competition for me. So go for it I think it's the best movement in the world. They are just saying we won't date you or even do anything for you.
Didn't you read the MGTOW levels section moron? Honestly some of you GAG can't even read I swear