Men Go Their Own Way.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Today, I went to the MGTOW forum because I really feel like trying to find a romantic relationship is a waste of time or worse. I like women, but I haven't found one that actually wants to WORK together. Girls have every bit as much to offer as guys do, but they just want something for nothing from me. I know they aren't all that way, a lot of my favorite people and role models are women... But that's just been my experience. I lose a lot more time, energy, money and peace than I ever get back.

My standard is simple, you have to add more to my life than my 12-pound cat, and if you do, I'll face her wrath and make her share her spoils. But if you have thumbs any you can't compete, I'm not interested.

But that's beside the point. Point is I finally decided to check out this Men Go Their Own Way movement. Had to use DuckDuckGo to find their site but it wasn't difficult. I was excited to see men living their own dreams, building their own homes, and loving their own lives!

I couldn't be more disappointed. Every fucking post was about women. Just guys bitching about how women are the devil for as far as the eye could see. And first of all, they aren't. Not getting along is one thing, but that doesn't mean they are evil or that they owe you anything for it. But second of all, What the Fuck?! Where is your way?! What's the point of going your own way if all you're going to do is look back and cry about someone else's? That shit was fucking pitiful.

I wanted to talk about what we could do instead. I wanted to talk about my plans to build my own house for 20 grand and put the savings into old cars and dirt bikes. I wanted to talk about the mountains. I wanted to learn about fishing.

It's just a bunch of middle aged men complaining about their ex wives or the fact that they can't get a date.

I'm fucking disgusted.

Apparently, if you really want to go your own way, live your own life, build your own house and realize your own dreams... you have to do it by yourself.
Why are people like this? Why does everyone wan't something for nothing so they can live a life without any rewards? That really scares me because... there's only one way to go with that and it isn't up. If nobody is working to build the future, and everyone is just shitting around trying to get something for free, They're going to run out of peanuts to fight for, and then what?!

I honestly expected it to be about men, and how we can be happy on our own. Earn our own rewards and enjoy them. Build our own house, and let the gal's do their own thing, look over, see what we can do for ourselves and think, "Maybe that's worth making an effort for" "Maybe we could meet halfway". But it's honestly just Men Go on Embarrassing Tirades about their Ex. Their way fucking sucks.

But I guess that's why I have a cat... She doesn't ask me for much, she never tells me how to live my own life, she's grateful, she is caring and affectionate, and she doesn't make up stupid rules or whine about what we don't have. She holds up her end of the deal, I hold up mine... And we get along.

Point is, I'm disappointed to report that the haters are right.
That was just Manbabies Generating Their Own Whining.
And I'm very disappointed.
Cus I'm sick of society too, but that's exactly what I wanted to get away from.

If I can't get the trucking job,
I might go try to join a Native Tribe that still lives the old ways.
The natives might be the only people left who actually want to work for anything.
Happiness isn't about what you have, It's what your brain does when you accomplish something. That's why men and women both struggle to find happiness in relationships these days.

And that's why I won't be joining MGTOW.

[Lliam]

Good MyTake, Lost_in_the_Woods. I hear that you're saying. I think your path is correct. There are women out there who would appreciate that kind of man. I actually know lots of women would.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Thanks man.

[MzAsh]

You’re 25. You’re still young. I can’t believe so many people expect to find lifelong partners before 30. It’s very unrealistic.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Ok but, how?

Why act like you know the reasonable age you will meet the keeper but then not explain the why or how?

I'm my experience, highschool or college is the only time people are surrounded by other people their own age in large amounts that would share their interests and hobbies, so what precious secret about a person's 30s or later do you know that INCREASES the chances of finding an SO?

[MzAsh]

The development of the prefrontal cortex.

[MzAsh]

To elaborate, people in their 20s, in general, lack the know how and the skills to attract and maintain a relationship that is likely to last. The frontal lobe deals with decision making and emotional regulation. There is a lot of key development between 20 and 30 happening. Of course there are exceptions.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Google said the average age to get married is 30-34. But I'm not sure that's accurate because some people get married 4 times 5-10 years apart. Some people have been happily gay for 30 years and just recently signed the papers.

Personally, I don't want kids. But realistically, if you wait till you're 35 to meet someone and you're married and settled in within 5 years, you'll end up paying for college when you're 60.

People used to get married when they were teenagers and stay together. Some people still do, but that definitely doesn't happen like it used to.

I saw a piece (from some guy on the internet) saying society values women most in their 20's and 30's and men most in their 40's and 50's so it's better for men to wait until later when they have a better position.

But, I don't really see it that way. I don't really have a family. I'm pretty much on my own and it's hard to work my way up by myself. I'd like to meet someone where I'm at who values me for me, then earn and climb togeather.

I'm not sure I'm going to want to build my house and wealth on my own, then share it with the girl who turned me down and spent 20 years with someone else who didn't work hard, just because he was waving it around and I wasn't.

By then, I'll be used to be alone and I imagine I'll be pretty happy. Sure, I'm lonely now... But it's not unbearable, and my cat loves me plenty. I don't feel like I can't live without a lady in my life.

I want love but by the time I have the money and the standing and the grey hair to be attractive, what am I going to do with it? Date some 20 some now that they're into me? Or share it with someone who's been living it up sleeping with someone else while I was earning it?

I can't really see myself doing either of those. So I don't know.

[MzAsh]

You’re entirely overthinking all this. You have a lot of misguided advice from people on the internet. Really, all I want to say is hang in there. Continue to work on and improve yourself and your life. The right woman isn’t going to value you for what tangible materials you have established. She’ll value you for WHO you are.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I'm disappointed that girls my age aren't interested in working on something that will last. They'd rather be told who to talk to by some guy they call Daddy. And that's fine. I could go out, flex and pretend and do that too but I just wouldn't enjoy it.

So by the time I put the work in, am I really going to want to share the pie? Or am I going to find another cat who thinks like I do and values hard work and commitment from the start?

I know there are girls out there doing the same thing I am, a couple on here come to mind. But there are a lot more guys who don't have a choice so a lot of us aren't going to find someone who was climbing alone when we get to the top.

I don't believe our brains are phisologicaly different than our grandparents were. But, my Grandma worked on her own her whole life and she never really found someone to work with her.

I think it's society that has changed. Men and women are brought up to lie cheat steal and pretend for an instant reward Instead of planting crops well in the spring to have enough to eat through the winter.

But what do you do when the short term rewards don't do it for you? Plant your own crops, wait till they grow, get married and watch her leave with half? Not me man... I think that's why guys are setting limits up front now, but I don't really want to plan my divorce before the wedding. I'd rather spend my time doing what I love.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I think it's a valid concern.
Maybe there is someone out there on the same path and we'll meet up in time. But, it just seems unlikely.

I don't see myself dating someone half my age, or sharing my pie with someone who wouldn't even look at me while I was baking it.

Nobody my age wants a guy who is more interested in working and growing than flexing and waving it around.

So, I'm pretty much planning on being single for my whole life.

And, I'm not saying women are wrong for making their own choices. They have every right to do what makes them happy. I just have to figure out what I'm going to do by myself if nobody wants to come with me.

Maybe someone will show up, but the further I go on my own the more they would have to do to convince me to share the rewards. And I sure don't see a lot of that from anybody anymore.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I guess, the TLDR is...

I'm me now. Nobody values me for me, and it's not because I'm a bad person. I have a lot to offer, but nobody will even stop to see that.

I don't think I'm ugly. I know I'm not boring. But I see the girls I like decide to get walked on instead.

If they like me for me, why are we wasting time sleeping alone? But the thing is, im pretty sure most girls my age aren't.

But I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I wish money and material didn't have anything to do with it.

But when you are used to people just taking your time and energy and affection and giving nothing back, how do you sit down and sign a contract to give them the deed to your house?

So like... It's something guys have to think about. Girls too, but they are more likely to make money breaking hearts than get left alone with less than they had at the start.

I'm not sure I could handle that.

[TheSpaceGnome]

1. Brain development actually never finishes, its perpetual throughout your entire life, and the comprehension skills you are speaking are achieved before puberty even starts (I was able to think that way at 8 years old) so there was no difference in that respect between my 20s and my 30s.

2. Most people in their 20s are actually better capable mentally for that than 30s and up, because most people don't take care of themselves, and as a result their brain degrades over time, and by the time most people reach 60-90, their mind is just gone from dementia and other illnesses.

3. If people took care of themselves, they would be exceptions, as they would maintain childlike brain plasticity and their initial adult appearence up well past age 100.

4. Aging is just from diseases.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I'm not sure that's backed up by the research.

But it's an interesting way to look at life. Definitely motivates positive and productive behaviors.

[TheSpaceGnome]

it is backed up, but it's not the popular view because it's impractical at making it easy to set rules.

[TheSpaceGnome]

And because it means no more drugs, alcohol, trash "food", casual sex, etc. plus quitting certain jobs, and lowering hours on others, while getting a raise.

It's a truth the rich and smart get to know.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

So what the fuck happened to Joe Biden? 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

But it's true. Age is only a small part of it.

There are plenty of people older than him who are still as sharp as a razor.

[TheSpaceGnome]

There are countless ways to damage the body, some purposeful, some accidental, some undetected by the victim, some thought to be a sign of good health, some reversable, some not.

Many people don't even know what healthy is, but grey hair, wrinkles, aches and pains, etc, is not do to getting older, it's your body dying a slow death because it doesn't have what it needs, or it had something it doesn't need.

It's why everyone ages at a different rate. (people also develop at different rates, so what a healthy adult looks like varies (I stopped growing at 14, my one friend at 12 and he's taller than me and looks older, my other friend at 30 and he's shorter than me and looks older)

I don't know what joe biden does other than sniffing people's hair like a weirdo and making bad policies just like every other president. Maybe he has bad habits, maybe he was in a car crash and broke something, maybe he had an organ removed, maybe bad genes, maybe other things?

[TheSpaceGnome]

Also biden might be rich, but smart? nah.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Fair enough.

Smoking cheese can't be good for a person long term. 🤣😂🤣

[UndenyableHanma]

In other words there’s no hope for me then men die very young in my family not one male on my father side has lived to see 50 I’m pretty much half dead according to genetics

[WowwGirl]

They also expect to find it without social skills

[WowwGirl]

Or effort

[Achille295]

That answer lacks a crucial point: getting into a long term relationship is probably more likely to happen after 30, yet for that to be long term, you woould have to have known the person for a few years, say in your eaarly 20s. The issue today is most guys in their early 20s are unable to find a girl. So by the time they actually find one, in their 30s, then they get iinto an LTR iin their 40s.

[WowwGirl]

@Achille295 mine didn't come till 30 hang in there

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

@wowgirl

Thanks. That's encouraging.

I am usually told that I make too much effort. Work, dating, hobbies, politics...

I can admit my social skills suck though. Both naturally, and because I don't use them.

But, it's hard to improve your social skills when you get rejected for being different. Bit of a catch 22. Need social skills to talk to girls, need to talk to girls to get better at it.

I gave up on tinder when I told a marine biologist a silly joke about crab races and she immediately unmatched me.

It wasn't inappropriate, I said I won by a mile and I couldn't figure out why everyone laughed. (If you havn't done it, the crabs are supposed to race eachother)

I thought it was funny, I guess she thought I was being serious and vanished without so much as a puff of smoke. I was very upset, and decided to just delete tinder and not bother anymore.

People don't realize that "social skills" is just a fancy way to say familiarity talking to girls (or other people in general)

How am I supposed to learn what's cool when they won't even talk to me?

You can say it's my fault. But how am I supposed to fix it? 🤷🏼‍♂️

I think we need to learn to give people a real chance and not pass judgement in the span of three messages.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

But on the other hand,
There are awkward girls out there too and I actually love that. They probably don't want a super "cool" overconfident type.

So, I try to tell myself there will be someone out there who likes me for me. I'm just saying I can't hold my breath based on wishful thinking.

[WowwGirl]

I believe in you. You should too

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I used to believe I could fly, but life has taught me that isn't the same as having wings.

So I worked on myself and then I learned being able to is only half the battle when most people would rather spend their time and energy throwing stones.

Now, I honestly think most of my problems are caused by other people. And I might be wrong, but all I really want is to live alone and not interact with anyone else. Then I'll have my answer, but... Try explaining that to a facist government that survives off rent high rent and income taxes.

I used to think people were crazy to live in Africa with next to nothing. Now I think happiness is less about what you have than what you don't. They don't have problems, they are happy eating dinner and going to sleep.

We have amazing food, amazing beds, and so many fucking problems we can't sleep. I don't want to live like that. The cat and I rarely argue, and when we do we make a compromise and go back to loving each other.

I believe in myself. I know what I have to offer. I just don't expect any women my age to want to be a part of that. I don't know why, but they don't even look at me anymore. I guess I don't have what they are looking for, and I'm not here to tell anyone else how to live.

Gay guys love me... But I don't love them. I wish I did, but it doesn't work for me.

I'm just disappointed that the other guys would rather bitch blame and complain than talk about old motorcycles and stuff.

[Sarahr123]

Not all girls are sleeping around or even sleeping with anyone. Marry a virgin girl if you’re concerned.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

It's not about sex.

But I know there are girls who have their priorities straight.

I gave so much of my time and money away I ended up with very little. I'll get it back, but I'm not going to give it away for free the second time.

And, I haven't found anyone who wants to work together instead of just get something for nothing.

I'm not holding my breath.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

do you know why relationships do not work out nowadays? its because people have high standards, the possibility of endless options, getting married with the intention of seeing what they can gain from their spouses rather than thinking about what they can offer to their spouses.

High standards : " I want to meet the ultimate love of my life or aka "The one". My soulmate, a girl who is perfectly designed for me. or I want the ultimate romantic experience"

This "high standards" mindset along with having seemingly unlimited options from online.(Nowadays its not hard to find someone from a dating app or an online forum) which is the reason behind so many relationships failing. Its easier to break up + find someone new than to work things through.

Its extremely common to meet young couples who date as long as 5-7 years then break it off. People think that a long lasting relationship has more to do with finding the perfect person rather than making things work. Compromising, valuing the sentiment of a sharing an intimate relationship for 25 years are things of the past.

why compromise when you can find someone who is a "better fit"? Reality is, there is no such thing as the perfect person. People will always have flaws. The next person you meet may not necessary be more compatible with you.

[shaysh87]

Many people are desperately for good relationships. But they're not willing to settle. They're waiting for your ultimate princess in a fairy tale romance. They want to find their soul mate within a certain number of years. he's only willing to stay married during the good times but not stick with her during the bad times. If you're gonna have this mentality, there's no way that you will be married forever.

The difference between modern marriages and ancient marriages :

Ancient marriages are more about "what can I offer my spouse?" rather than "what can I gain from my spouse?" Ancient marriages are less about romantic feelings and more about caring / supporting each other through thick and thin.''
Modern marriages are more about "what can I gain from my spouse?" Modern marriages are more about romance than caring / supporting each other through thick and thin.

For you, If you're still young (under 40), I would suggest waiting until you find the suitable person. Once you hit 40 and you're still unmarried, thats the time when you should start settling if you want a family. Your dating options do really plummet once you hit your 40s, if you're thinking about starting a family.

[coachTanthony]

@Lost_in_the_Woods "I gave up on tinder when I told a marine biologist a silly joke about crab races and she immediately unmatched me."

Imagine the arrogance to assume EVERYONE must like you or find you funny or else you will just give up at the first person that doesn't. That says it all in a nutshell.

[KingofCups]

@shaysh87 @Lost_in_the_Woods

As a young person, I can definitely say that the dating game has transformed dramatically in such a few years. I mean I represent the first generation of humans that were born completely submerged in the digital world of the internet.

And as both of you have clearly understood, long term relationships, or even relationships with any kind of emotional content are so incredibly rare. I can't even say I've ever felt real love between me and another woman. It's like people have lost touch with thier soul, with their heart, with their feelings.

Corporations would like you to believe that love is like any other retail commodity, and so many companies are banking on the fact that you have that vacancy in your heart, they create ads that say if you buy our bullshit product or service, you can have that woman, that emotional experience, that happiness. But does buying shit ever satisfy that empty feeling? No. I just want to feel that other people care about me. I just want to have affection in my life. Fuck I just want to touch people and be touched by people.

I mean I'm 24, I'm a good looking guy, educated, very fit, easy going, fun, decent income. And for all of that I've never dated anyone for longer than a month. I've never felt that real substance people talk about when they describe the relationships of the past. It's really sad what's happening to young people nowadays.

[shaysh87]

@KingofCups

Love is hard to come by. It really has to do with how marketable / popular your personality is. Folks that have more enjoyable / charismatic personalities tend to have better luck finding love. But actually the definition of "love" as evolved. 200 years ago, the definition of love was to: value, care , support your spouse. In 2021, love means : find the most exciting , fun person to talk to, someone who can give you an amazing conversation. Our current definition of love means romantic longing for another person rather than sacrificing ourselves for that person's well being. We grow up constantly seeing fairytale romances in movies / hollywood , thinking that all of our romantic relationships should be likewise otherwise you both aren't meant to be together.

Its high standards (finding "The one") when reality is, many of us do not end up finding "The One" by the time we hit a certain age. People are unwilling to settle, believing that there is always the perfect person waiting for them out there. Its also not hard at all to meet someone new nowadays.

But if you're 24, you need to realize that you just began the dating scene not too long ago. I would take maybe another 10+ years to date before you give up or start to settle.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

@coachTanthony

Not at all. I never said anything like that.

I just stopped fishing in a barrel hoping to catch the big one.
😂🤣😂

I didn't say she had to like me. It made me sad that she didn't, but I'm not looking for someone who doesn't like humility and humor.

It's like playing go fish and you get a 5 when you need a queen. You're not angry with the card. You just have to look somewhere else.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

As for the other topics here,

I have high standards but they aren't like most people. Test said I was smarter than 999/1000 Americans. It's not about numbers but we all know the average American is an idiot so that's at least half the field ruled out because we would never be happy together.

I want someone who can understand me. Someone who can add to my LIFE. I could buy a dick sucking robot for a lot less than I'd spend buying dinner for two. I'm not interested. I'm looking for a lot more than that.

My cat loves me. Has my back. Has great ideas. And she's beautiful. If you've only got 1/4 I'm not gonna split my time 50/50. You'd have to offer me something she can't. That I can't already do by myself with one hand.

That said, I'm not unreasonable. She doesn't have to be as smart as me. She doesn't have to make a lot of money. She just has to have dreams, go after them, and not sit on a log wondering why they didn't happen for her or why she can't find a man to buy then.

Most people don't do that. I agree it's mostly a corporate construct but it's also just lazyness.

I think the answer is the opposite of "just settle for less and be a part of it" that's the problem not the solution. 🤣😂🤣

I'm going to climb my mountain. And I'll be happy up there. I'm happy just making progress.

And yeah, people will want what I have, but I'm not going to come back down to share it with someone who sat on a log waiting for it to happen for them. that doesn't add anything to my life. I call those people barnacles.

If I can't find a girl who'll help cross the tough spots I'll keep all the coconuts. I'm not here to carry someone the whole way.

If you have two thumbs and can't offer more than my cat does, you aren't trying very hard. Most people aren't. But I won't settle for that because it'll only slow me down.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

You're not understanding the point.

What I meant by "settling" is to have realistic expectations of marriage. Nowadays people think that there is a perfect person for every single person on earth. Any time they encounter a few obstacles with a girl, they dump her , believing that she's simply not the right fit.

This is the same reason why we see so many couples date for 5-7 years , only to break up and act as if nothing has ever happened. It also explains why so many married couples divorce after 10-20 years of marriage.

You need to realize that there is no such thing as a perfect person. Marriage will not always be happy, blissful fairy tale. Because if you expect marriage to be a fairy tale, get ready to find yourself divorced at some point down the road.

Ask married people if their marriage was always blissful and happy, 80% of them will tell you NO! Just ask Michelle Obama, she said that there were months or even years where she would be angry at barack about something. But they both stuck together during the difficult times where eventually things got better.

Now I'm not saying you should settle for someone that is not intelligent or anything like you. definitely find someone that you're compatible with. But do not expect this person to be absolute perfection. Do not expect marriage to be blissful, happy. Because if you're gonna maintain this unrealistic standard, you're likely to never ever find anyone in your life. And even if you do, your relationship / marriage will be short lived.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

I thought the same way just a few months ago. It was extremely difficult for me to find the right guy because most guys nowadays are extrmely boring, lacking in charisma / humor. On the rare occasion that I did meet someone who was charismatic, humorous, there was always something wrong with him. For example, not being able to admit it when he is wrong, stubborn, dishonest / not very transparent, too old. I was almost ready to give up, believing that I will never be able to find the right person.

A 76 yr old man heard of my complaints. And he asked me "do you have any flaws?" Reluctantly, I replied "yes, but not any severe flaws" Then he said " so why should you expect other people to not have any flaws?"

This really changed my thinking towards men. We all have flaws of some sort. There is no such thing as a perfect person. These flaws will cause frustrations , problems, issues within our relationships / marriage.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

we all complain about not being able to find "the right person". When in reality, there really is no such thing as the perfect "right person". People are single because they have high standards.

People divorce because they have super high expectations of marriage.

I don't think you're someone that is quite different from the rest of the young, millennial population. Your thinking is pretty similar to everyone else's.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

See but that's just your assumption.

I ride a 1982 Suzuki Motorcycle all winter. You think I give up on a person because they have flaws? 😂🤣😂🤣😂

I haven't left many people. I'm usually the one trying to make it work after she cheated on me 4 times and is pissed off because I kissed someone else when we weren't dating because she had a tantrum and broke up with me over nothing.

I learned your lesson when I was a child. Every day the camp director would say "raise your hand if you think you are perfect" "now raise your had if you think the person sitting next to you is perfect" "okay, so if you know you aren't perfect, and the person sitting next to you isn't perfect, don't expect them to be"

My cat couldn't poop on her own for like a year. She would try her best to squeeze it out in a 3 foot streak across the carpet. I had to give her enemas and spend my last dollar on vet care and laxatives.

I stuck it out because I love her and we have a deal. We stick together.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

My problem, Isn't that I expect someone to be perfect. I expect them to work hard and accept that it's not all one sided.

My problem is that you are just now learning that you aren't perfect and you shouldn't expect a man to be a decorative ATM/personal assistant.

You're like 15 years behind in life lessons that you can't learn with the attitude you had until a few months ago. First you realize you aren't perfect, then you realize you have unreasonable expectations, then you realize it isn't all about you, and you start to share the responsability.

And you said yourself, most people don't know the first part of that and you just now figured it out.

Call me old fashioned, but that was common sense to me. I got sick of doing 90% of the effort for 10% of the rewards just for a narcissist to dump me over childish shit.

You think I'm like you used to me. I keep my 39 year old motorcycle on the road because I trust it. It's reliable. And it had a lot to offer. Not because it doesn't have it's flaws. We get wet when it rains. We get cold when it snows.

You just figured out that nobody is perfect and you have to stick together on the bad days too? Give me a break. This is why I prefer my cat. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

But I will say, it's nice to know you're starting to figure it out.

I just don't have a lot of sympathy for people just now learning that they aren't perfect and shouldn't expect others to be.

That seemed obvious to me when I was a child.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Maybe now it makes more sense. You're trying to teach me something I knew instinctively that you just learned after how many years of unrealistic expectations for a man?

Well, I had a different experience. 😂

I decided if nobody wants to WORK together I'd probably be better off keeping what I earn and enjoying it myself.

I know I have flaws, but I know what I can do. I'm just sick of giving it away for nothing. Trust me, I knew they had flaws from day one. I know everyone does.

I'll see past a lot if someone has a good heart and puts the effort in. I mean come on, I am a cat person who rides a 39 year old motorcycle in the winter.

You crack me up trying to tell me I have unreasonable expectations because you just found out perfect people don't exist.

That old man must care about you a lot because he probably saw a lot of hard times like you can't imagine and he sat there listening and trying to help you.

I used to do that, but I'm 25. I have my own life to live. My own dreams and my own bills to pay. I don't get paid $130/hour to do that like a counselor does. I got sick of spending my time on it to get nothing back.

I don't expect perfect. I'm just sick of people who don't try half as hard as I do expecting me to be. It's a net loss for my overall happiness.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I think that's a big part of the reason so many guys say "girls are only good for sex"

I don't agree, but it's hard to show them a girl who really proves them wrong these days.

I think of my Gramma though. She worked her whole life. She got a lot done and never let it go to her head.

But that's as old fashioned as my ride to work. It's hard to find these days so a lot of us have stopped looking and figure you can hang out with the fuckboys till you change your priorities.

And you will. Ladies will figure out they actually want a man who works hard and cares hard and loves them instead of a ken doll who says the right things when he feels like spending time with them.

I think everyone has a lot to offer. Most people just focus 100% on what they want and 0% on giving back. So those of us who want a partner Instead of a hookup are more likely to find love at the SPCA.

But hey, here's to hoping people start to catch on like you did before all the old guys are gone and you'd they'd have to listen to me say it the honest way.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

You didn't know anything that I was trying to tell you before. Its just that you have way too much ego and pride to admit that you did have something to learn. How do I know?

You said you were against settling as if thats the wrost thing that can ever happen. And secondly, you said that you will never marry someone or stay in a marriage that didn't make you happy.

Hun, most people in life end up settling at some point. Just in case you weren't aware. Most people in life get married when they reach the age to get married, not because they found "The one".

why do you think most people get married by their 30s? is it really because 30s is a magical age where everyone seems to be finding their ultimate love of their lives? NO!! Its because 30s is the age where people SHOULD start getting married. Most people end up settling at some point.

And lastly, if you think that marriage should always make you happy. You will find yourself divorced at some point down the road. No, marriage is not always happy. If you have asked married people , a lot of them would tell you that there could be unhappiness that lasts for years but yet they still stick together.

Give up your ego. Learn something.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

@shaysh87

" I learned your lesson when I was a child. Every day the camp director would say "raise your hand if you think you are perfect" "now raise your hand if you think the person sitting next to you is perfect" "okay, so if you know you aren't perfect, and the person sitting next to you isn't perfect, don't expect them to be""

Read my reply before you type a new one, you'll seem a lot smarter.

There is a difference between "settling for someone who doesn't make you happy"
And expecting perfection. Not expecting people to be perfect actually leads to a lot more happiness in the long run. A lot less fury and disappointment, and a lot more getting along.

My cat rubbed shit into the carpet for months, stabs me with tiny razors on the daily and expects me to play with the string at 5am when I need to pee. Sometimes she steps right on my broken wrist just to get in my face and demand I pet her while I'm trying to sleep. The other day, she killed an innocent baby mole by accident and I almost cried.

But she's still perfect in my book. I love her no matter what.
Change your idea of what perfect means.
Change your concept of what you are looking for to something that might actually exist.
My standards might be higher than most people's, but if my cat can meet them they aren't unrealistic for a human lady, because the cat and I started with almost nothing in common and had to learn each other's language.

"the one" isn't someone who has no flaws, that's a great way to end up with a liar.
But the right person for you will make you happy, even when they aren't at their best.
Sure, some days I don't want to be stabbed, some days I don't want to clean up tiny poops while she sits pretty and watches me like a queen. But I do it because it's worth it. Because I'm happy to be here when she needs me, and she always returns the favor.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Marriage isn't a hoop you have to jump through.
It's totally optional.
It's literally only about being with someone who makes you happy.

You settle for being miserable. Count me out. Thanks.
It's not about ego, it's about common sense.

This is what I meant when I said you have 15 years of life lessons to catch up on.
Someday you will see that Happiness exists without perfection.
Fairy tales aren't real. But love is out there.
Maybe not for everyone, but it's a real thing.

Me, I'd rather be happy by myself than miserable with someone who feels like I owe them something for letting them live in my house and not pay rent. x'D

Like I said, the cat does that already but she makes me happy all the time. She appreciates me. She loves me. She is grateful. She helps me up when I'm down and she doesn't tell me what to do more than I can put up with.

"If you have two thumbs and you can't add more to my life than she does, I'm not interested."
What's my motivation to sign up for that?
It comes at the cost of time, energy, money, freedom, and it'll make the princess furious with me.
I'm fine without it, so if it's not making me happy I'm gonna politely decline.

There's a reason the judge asks both people if they accept before he makes it official.
You can't make me be miserable with someone who doesn't make me happy.
That's crazy talk.
I'm sure as hell not falling for that one.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Call me what you want, cus I know better by now.

Ego is thinking someone else is self-centered for not wanting to sign a contract to split their retirement with a person who doesn't make them happy just because... ?
Because why?
You don't even have a reason, you're just trying to insult me into thinking it's an obligation and that's not how I work sweetcheeks.

Back in the old days, women did all the housework and that was their rent.
They were expected to have dinner waiting when the guy got home from work,
And those gals went and fought for the right to have a job on top of it.

You want someone to put up with you making them miserable just because you look pretty?
What's in it for me? I'll buy a poster of Taylor swift and let her sing me to sleep. ;)

You literally just learned that you aren't perfect so it's not reasonable to expect someone else to be a few months ago, and you think I have an ego problem?

You really are out to trick someone into being miserable aren't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beuGTOOERjA

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

This right here, is a perfect example of why I'm gonna focus on me and not keep rolling the dice trying to find a meaningful worthwhile romantic connection.

And so many other guys are too.

"I thought it was reasonable to leave someone if they had any flaws whatsoever, but I literally just realized I have flaws too so anyone who doesn't want to take me as I am and be miserable splitting their bank account has an ego problem"

And she's ahead of most girls in their 20's.

So... Yeah... good luck with that.
I hope it works out for you in the long run.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

I've had my own personal experiences dealing with the frustrations of years of not being able to find the "right guy". I'm finally willing to settle for someone less than perfect. But its nearly impossible for me to encounter someone that I can be romantically attracted to. I'm 26 years old and never had a boyfriend.

But what people need to understand is

Romance is not guaranteed in life. People sit around whining , complaining about how nobody wants to commit to them or how its so hard to true love, EXPECTING true love to happen. Romance does not happen to everyone. You can't force true love to happen. True love either happens or it doesn't. Many people go through life never marrying or remaining divorced for the rest of their lives.

Life is unfair. Some people do encounter lasting romance, others do not. It all boils down to your luck, looks, personality, character that you are born with.
Not everyone has an attractive personality, not everyone has the best luck.

See romance as an accessory to life. Learn how to be content without romance. Because if you're gonna live the rest of your life whining about romance, you will be in for a very rough ride. Find other things that make you happy.

[shaysh87]

You arrive into the world as one person. You should leave the world as one person. At the end of your life , its just YOU.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

[You literally just learned that you aren't perfect so it's not reasonable to expect someone else to be a few months ago, and you think I have an ego problem?]

of course you have an ego problem. because clearly you had a terrible response to settling and inflated expectations of marriage. You pranced around on here, talking down on women, acting like you were the high quality man that deserves something much better.

You, sir, are a very flawed individual and you have a lot to learn.

I'm not gonna waste time getting into a petty immature fight just because I happen to diminish your huge ego.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

The problem is, you're fucking crazy. You say romance isn't gurenteed and shouldn't be counted on but you think I'm wrong for saying I'm going to focus on me and hope someone comes along who makes me happy.

I know me. You don't.

Just because I don't bend over for you doesn't mean I have a huge ego.

You didn't hurt my feelings you're just wrong.

You speak for yourself and say you just now realized it's not about finding someone who has no flaws whatever and you've never even had a boyfriend.

You obviously aren't an expert. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

It's like... You didn't even read the my take.

🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

And you're telling me this conversation is a waste of your time?

Please, this is a personal invitation to leave me the hell alone.
😂🤣😂

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

26 year old girl, never had a boyfriend because she just now learned she isn't perfect and she has to accept that other people aren't either,

Thinks I'm wrong for not being in a relationship that doesn't make me happy. And says I have too much ego,

Because relationships aren't gurenteed and we need to learn to take them or leave them.

On a MyTake where I called out MGTOW for being too focused on dating.

You've absolutely lost it sweetheart. You're not paying me to be your counselor.

[MCheetah]

The site recommended this to me late as balls. I'm just NOW seeing it.

I perfectly understand you. And you are mostly right. The thing is, MGTOW, in its philosophy, is spot on. Don't live your life chasing after women or seeking their approval or validation. Hell, I'd say that advice should apply to women regarding men's approval, as well. Don't be a tool to society, the government, your employer, or women (or men) in the world. THAT, I 100% agree with.

But MGTOW websites? Yeah, a lot of them are pretty trash. They say they are "going their own way," but can't stop whining and complaining about women. I'm not MGTOW, but the way. But I do think the core philosophy of it is sound, for some men nowadays. Definitely not ALL men, or even most. And like I said, IF a woman can't find a good man, then she can be WGTOW, as well. Though women's lib has been a thing since the late 1960s.

Ideally, I just want a woman to hold a night and to form a loving spiritual bond and connection with. But I didn't win the f*cking genetic lottery. In fact, I lost in every category. And I don't like being an egotistical sh*t-bag who treats women and other people badly. So I don't see any woman in my future. I had a small few partners back in my 20s, though. But obviously, none of them worked out.

It SUCKS we live in such a dystopia that out planet is so overpopulated, and we have global-wide, near-instantaneous connection with each other, yet so many of us can't find ONE decent partner. (Honestly, I do think women are slightly more to blame, even if simps are a thing, but I don't want to get into the whole "who is worse" stuff.) This truly IS the Darkest Timeline.

But like what MGTOW is *supposed* to teach, I think it's best to just do whatever you can to find your own happiness, even if that possibly won't be with a woman. It's exciting to think about... All the possibilities your life still has left in store. And all you have to do is stop waiting for a unicorn to "complete you" and to just go out, and forge your own path. Preferably, with a loving pet companion. At least you have a cat. I can't even get a pet due to my job.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

"The thing is, MGTOW, in its philosophy, is spot on. Don't live your life chasing after women or seeking their approval or validation... ... But MGTOW websites? Yeah, a lot of them are pretty trash. They say they are "going their own way," but can't stop whining and complaining about women."

Exactly. I was very disappointed.

"I just want a woman to hold a night and to form a loving spiritual bond and connection with. I don't like being an egotistical sh*t-bag who treats women and other people badly. So I don't see any woman in my future."

Sad as fuck that that seems to be the reality in this era,
I shudder to think what's going to happen when they bread and we don't.

" I didn't win the f*cking genetic lottery. In fact, I lost in every category."

I still disagree. There is no winner. The girls I like are the opposite of the girls you like and neither of us is wrong. Personally, I really like funny teeth while most people really don't. My mom is a little Irish lady who didn't see a black person till she was a teenager but she said she'd watch him walk by just because he was so beautiful. I'm 5'10. I wish I was 4'10 because I'd be closer to the little cute chicks and that would make it easier to kiss them. There is no win or lose. You just have to realize that and play to your strengths. You've got plenty. TBH, being smart is probably the biggest thing holding you back. You should see the reply MyTake from the lib tard who blocked me. He's happy with whoever he can have sex with. If that worked for you, you'd have someone. You just want more out of life so it's harder to find someone who can keep up. But, hopefully the gals will eventually realize they want more too, and they'll come looking.

[t-8900]

Society often makes me feel like the my life has no value. With the way the vocal feminists push things today it just has me thinking like, "welp if i died tomorrow no one would care" and it has me feeling down all the time. I often times think that's exactly what they want to. All for "getting back" at men when the men who "held them down" were from like 2-3 generations ago and have nothing to do with me. I've had VERY bad experiences with women.

Most wanted... well ALL wanted to just jump in bed after the first or second date. Some gave me time... as in like 10-20 days into the relationship but when I told them I just needed more time they went and screwed other men behind my back. Some of them doing it with multiple men and then acting like it wasn't a big deal or they outright just lied. My mother cast me out too and my second grade teacher raped me (female). So it was EASY for me to fall into the MGTOW, Red Pill, Black pill circles for a long time as what I've experienced from women in my childhood, teen, and early adult years was all straight up cruelty.

But I'm starting to think it might have something to do with being in the lower economic classes because I think it happens more for people in our situations for whatever reason. I haven't given up on women and hold out hope that there's someone out there who will treasure my heart and my kindness and dedication. Maybe it's a pipe dream. The way everything is changing so rapidly in dating and relationships makes it all the more daunting when you add to the fast paced lifestyle we live here in the west.

My advice is simple, don't give up. Even when the world is going to hell around you dont give into despair. If you stay strong then no matter what you can say you truly are a man. MGTOW is an easy out but one that just never really worked for me and my wants and needs in this life. I honestly envy any man who can just be single and happy or have sex casually and be happy because things dont phase him like they do me and he might have a lot of clear advantages just because he doesn't give af. I freely admit that I'm a man and I NEED a woman. I'm not ashamed to admit it, it's apart of my biology.

In the end I have talked to men claiming and pretending to be all kinds of things in this life; a player, mgtow, cuck, alpha, they all have something in common... when you ask them questions about truly being happy they always lash out in anger... it all tells the tale. My belief is that the vast majority of people would be much happier in a monogamous relationship with someone then any other dynamic be in single, poly, open relations, any of that. Men need women and women need men and that's simply it. I dont care how strong and independent a woman is or how macho and alpha a man is, being alone for the vast majority of people SUCKS! Some of us just aren't honest with ourselves about it. Maybe out of pride or denial, or something else. But the single life for most people isn't working.

the greatest gift this life can offer you is love. There is nothing more special or fulfilling than that imho.

[Anonymous]

My fundamental issue with MGTOW is quantifying the entirety of 3.9 billion women on planet earth based on ones scarce life experience with a few. It's like someone saying because they had awful abusive parents, all parents on earth are awful. I mean, how does one actually know all women are evil if you've never even met half of them? If they have daughters, do they consider their daughters to be the scum of the earth because they were born female, and if so, what does that say about them because who taught them to be that way? Also as you so rightly point out, if you're actually truly going to go your own way, why on earth do you spend every single waking moment talking about women---go your own way and do something with your life other than complain about your past with women because I guarantee, the women who these men alleged hurt them, don't care and have moved on with their lives.

So my advice to you is to go your own way---your own way, and do what you set out to do and invest in yourself and your goals and seek happiness in that.

[MrPlentiful]

Because of biological realities

[CasaNorba]

"My fundamental issue with MGTOW is quantifying the entirety of 3.9 billion women on planet earth based on ones scarce life experience with a few"

you must not be from America or any other place in the west, huh?

[Opinion Owner]

@CasaNorba I don't understand the relevance of your question. It would not matter where on earth I am from. If I said to you, "all men are horrible, including you (whom I assume I have never met before) and the reason for it is I had a few bad relationships," I'd gather you would say I was being unfair in my assessment of men.

[MrPlentiful]

All women are horrible and raise horrible people.

[MrPlentiful]

How many tines were you spanked as a kid? I remember in my house, my mom let me get beat all the time. Whereas my sisters never got touched. Do you think that has anything to do with the delusions adult women have that they're angels and do no wrong?

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I agree with anon.

Y'all make us look as bad as you think women do.

My mom sucked too. Doesn't mean all women everywhere are like she is.

[Opinion Owner]

@MrPlentiful You are projecting. "Because X happened to you in your situation, then everyone else sucks." There are plenty of girls who got spankings too, so what does that say about the people who raised them including the men who also spanked them. You have to look beyond just you.

I won't apologize for the people that hurt you---they are responsible for fulfilling that role for you, and I won't take the blame for what other women have done to you because I haven't done it and I don't expect men who have done nothing to me to take the blame for what a few bad men have done. When you live that way, you end up bitter and angry at the wrong people and end up being blinded to the good people who will try to come into your life.

[MrPlentiful]

Women dont get spanked. Give me a break.

[lilyanony1]

I feel sorry that you had to stumble upon such an awful website.
I have been told about a few of these awful and quite hateful groups like incel...
Anyways what bothers me is that this is what society has become.
I often wonder if the people that have ended up in situations they're not happy with have really taken the time to look at and assess the person they were with.
Example, I realise that the reason I wasn't happy in my relationships was because we were incompatible.
That doesn't make them a bad person it just means that I am not like them.
In some instances opposites attract but unfortunately in these cases I was being asked to change myself to suit this particular person.

I have written posts here about the unkind behaviour of the people I've dated but in all honesty the work to heal was really about me understanding why I kept dating different people but having a similar outcome. And the bottomllme is incompatibility.
Sometimes a person can boost you to encourage you to be better but they weren't I always felt like I was being crushed and one day it was just too much.
So I left.
I can only suggest this don't write your dating life off. There are good people out there that do want the same things you do.
If you really think joining a native tribe will do it then do it.
Because there is that saying, you can't expect positive results when doing things exactly as you've done before... Well at least if they've been proven to fail that is.

Thanks for this. It was insightful.

[CasaNorba]

"Anyways what bothers me is that this is what society has become."

you can thank feminism for all of that. dont forget that we mgtow were created as a resistance to feminism for fucking it up for everyone for the past 50+ year

[Steven8000]

Do you know people can be happy their whole life without being in a romantic relationship?

[anylolone]

You don't join the movement by going to a forum, the forum is to bitch to battle the temptation of not going your own way or just to cope with your shitty ex.
If you want more productive conversations, go to forums dedicated to the specific hobby or plans.

Wanna talk about working out? There's forums for that. Investing? Plenty of those.

I just went to one to check how they are doing this days.
I see that they are referring to "going galt" as ghosting.
Briffault's law is still very debated, and they still don't know it doesn't apply to individuals but to species.

And it's not as bitchy as it used to be.

There's a guy asking how to not look attractive to a female co-worker and everyone is giving bad advice, she will hit on him if she would hit on him and she won't take it very well. My advise would be to record everything and pretend nothing is happening if she crosses the line a few times then start admonishing her when she does it, then file a formal sexual harassment complaint.

I'm no MGTOW so I'm not going to, lol!

[Anonymous]

Most Men going their own way don't frequent that site, they have quite literally gone their own way on their own paths.

MGTOW is not the male version of feminism. MGTOW is a form of self-protection that many men do. Think of the Pence rule but on steroids. Many have decides it is just easier to avoid women as much as possible in order to avoid any bullshit.

Feminists and their betas think that MGTOW is one homogeneous movement, it isn’t, each man goes off on his own track they are all individuals responsible for themselves and no one else, this is why feminists have a problem dealing with it as there is no one target to aim at so they try to smear anyone who identifies as MGTOW, that is why they follow the 'Fight Club' rules and don't talk about it with anyone they don't know.

If there are any MGTOW around you or where you work they will not stick out, they will dress to blend. Keep it minimal and professional... get in, do your job, then GTFO with minimal interaction. No conversation about their personal life.
They are Grey Men.

[Moose304]

MGTOW is not some social club where men have a secret handshake and have the word misogynist tattooed on their arm. Understand I don't consider myself to be MGTOW, but I know many guys that simply have stopped getting serious with women. They still date some and go have a lot of laughs. I am that way. I made a decision almost 40 years ago that I would never see myself getting married. I can't get the exact figures but I keep hearing that close to 80% of all divorces are started by the wives. Right now I know personally 5 men that even though they have court orders affirming they get to see their children these mothers do everything they can to block these visits. Sometimes I hate these kinds of topics because people get their emotions all butthurt. Right now the playing field is far from level with regard to what happens after a divorce. And let me make this perfectly clear. MGTOW is NOT about a bunch of middle age males going off on woe is me tangents. let me also be perfectly clear about something else! There are also a lot of males that have jumped onto the MGTOW bandwagon that are incels. That instead of taking the time to lose some frickin weight, take the dang time to brush their teeth, work on some self-improvement they had rather sit in their parent's basement and make the kinds of comments you are complaining about. I bring this incel topic up because I have a feeling this is the majority of what you are seeing in that place. However, if you are only going to judge the MGTOW movement by these incels you will not see the primary issues driving it. I could go further, but to do so would be to give that rant more attention then it deserves!

[shaysh87]

Romance is not guaranteed in life. People sit around whining , complaining about how nobody wants to commit to them or how its so hard to true love, EXPECTING true love to happen. Romance does not happen to everyone. You can't force true love to happen. True love either happens or it doesn't. Many people go through life never marrying or remaining divorced for the rest of their lives.

Life is unfair. Some people do encounter lasting romance, others do not. It all boils down to your luck, looks, personality, character that you are born with.
Not everyone has an attractive personality, not everyone has the best luck.

See romance as an accessory to life. Learn how to be content without romance. Because if you're gonna live the rest of your life whining about romance, you will be in for a very rough ride. Find other things that make you happy.

[shaysh87]

@Lost_in_the_Woods

You arrive into the world as one person. You should leave the world as one person. At the end of your life , its just YOU.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

That's a good way to look at it.

[cybermaverick]

The problem is, MGTOW members expect good nature from someone who clearly doesn't have it. They keep getting tangled with the wrong type of people, who treat them like trash. Its also true for guys who do the same thing to women, who also end up complaining.

These are just two far ends of the same spectrum. Put a kind hearted women in the life of a MGTOW guy, he will drop all his support to the movement almost immediately. That forum is more of a collection about some of the lowest moments in a guys life, and it paints it in such a way that their whole life has been like that.

A lot could be achieved if both genders were a little bit respectful of one another, and not join gender specific forums to whinge about the other.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Put a kind hearted women in the life of a MGTOW guy, he will drop all his support to the movement almost immediately.

Sure, but the fact that it's so popular tells the story of how rarely that happens anymore.

[cybermaverick]

That's what they want to perceive. My point is, they only believe in the "movement" until they come across someone. Its totally superficial. And the reason its not well known because the MGTOW guy won't join the forums again to say "hey I'll found someone". They'll banish him from the forum anyway. Its shallow stuff.

[Ghostlock]

It sounds more like Men Go Their Own Way and then Regret It.

Women do the same thing though. How many times have you heard a woman say, "I don't need no stinking man! I can take care of myself!"

Well, men don't need women either, but let's be honest, it's sure nice to have one if you can find one that you mix well with. And they know this too. Just like your discovery with MGTOW, women who claim that they don't need men often find themselves joining their little man hating clubs and then do nothing but bitch and complain about men all day, lol.

We all need that one perfect partner in our lives. Life can be lonely without them. The problem, is how do you find that one special partner? Now, if you can write a MyTake on how to solve that riddle, you will have discovered the answer to the meaning of life and have one hell of a MyTake, haha.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I sure haven't figured that out yet.
But I'm confident that it isn't Tinder.

[Ghostlock]

Hahaha, indeed not!

[Celtero]

MGTOW as a group is great for people who've never heard of it. I remember being 19 or so and feeling so frustrated with women. It turned out I was frustrated because women had treated me like shit for my whole life and my brain was telling me I should be happy with them anyway. It was just nice to have the affirmation back then that yes, women can be bad people too.
And I think in general, for both men and women, it's good to keep in mind that being single is better than having a bad partner.

But a lot of mgtow discussion just boils down to "man good, woman bad." And it's quite boring and stupid after a while. I get that there's useful instances to point out female abuse or mistreatment... but they'd just cherrypick instances where a woman made a mistake as if a man never made a similar mistake.

[Notfabricated11]

Hey can you blame them. Women have dedicated sites bashing men. Lmao. I agree with you on the whole society part. Sometimes I scroll the questions on Gag and think to my self who the fuck cares about any of this. Just a lot of people dealing putting bandaids over a gunshot wound. Just not being able to face their fears and look at themselves and finding out that most of these questions they have don't even matter. As soon as you find that tribe please dm me. I'll take the trip with you. I saw on some TV show that there is one in Costa Rica.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

"World's Lost Tribes: Living With the Mek"

It's an awesome show but I doubt it's on Netflix or anything.
They aren't on Facebook so the only way to find them is to take the trip and start looking. xD

[Notfabricated11]

Lmao

[anniisa97]

I really enjoyed reading this. Its honestly quite rare that I read a Take properly without skipping anything but I wanted to read everything you said.

Thank you for realising that just because you had a bad experience with women not all of us are like that. I see these kind of men you're talking about way too often on GAG and it gets so annoying to see it so often. They wine about how no woman wants them when the only women they're interested in are pretty girls who have hobbies and a life. Girls who wouldn't give them a second glance because these guys are the laziest men around and want everything handed free. They won't accept a woman like themselves but will hate on the pretty ones who take care of themselves for wanting their equivalent in a man. Anyway that's my rant over for now.

Like I said great Take and I wish you the best for the future.

[anniisa97]

Whine**

[CasaNorba]

"And that's why I won't be joining MGTOW."

I hope you dont jinx yourself and regret not joining us earlier after you find that so called special "wife" of yours that I HOPE WILL NOT divorce rape your ass through child support, alimony and all the other freebies that women get from us and the government just for simply having pussy.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I'm not sure you read the rest of it.

Read the comments on the MHO.

There are more than two roads in life.

[CasaNorba]

no shit. but do remember that unlike feminism, mgtow is not a movement is a philosophy. you dont have to JOIN us or go through any sort of initiations to be mgtow. so just because you heard a few mgtows talk negatively in that site you went to does not mean we all operate the same exact way

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Dunno mate. You seem pretty toxic to me.

[CasaNorba]

the truth will always sound harsh and toxic one way or another

[RagnarRedbeard]

MGTOW is just a bunch of guys who had bad relationships or little luck with the ladies trying to convince themselves that they’re better off without women. That’s why it’s all about how evil women are and how all men in relationships are beta cucks who are bound to get cheated on and fucked over in divorce eventually. They all repeat the same stuff to each other and feel like that confirms their beliefs, but obviously deep down they know they’re miserable. The whole thing is one big cope.

As for you, there will be a way that you can figure out how to change your situation. You should ignore anybody who says that you should just wait and that eventually “a girl will love you for you”. If you can’t get a girl now that’s not gonna happen without some kind of change.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Right but, I'm already me. I'm not going to pretend to be a dickwaver to attract a girl who wants one.

The little red hen made her own pie, they all came running, and by then it was too late because the work was done.

I don't know any women in my age range who want to work with me. I don't expect them to change, and I'm not going to stoop to fit into popular mainstream culture and what it values.

So I agree, it probably isn't going to happen. I'll eat my own pie with my cat and have a lot more freedom and a lot more money.

See my comments on MzAsh's post.

But, maybe she and liam are right and I will meet a girl who's been working on her own.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

@alyssa11
@rachelspikes
@emily12345

Just a few people on here who come to mind.

(See mytake, @MzAsh 's opinion and the replies to it. You make be glad to be as glad to know guys like me exist as I am to keep you do)

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

* @rachelspiks

[RagnarRedbeard]

I don’t mean that you have to change as a person. Sometimes it’s just the way someone approaches relationships is off.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Fair enough. I have never been great at meeting people, but I honestly don't think that's the whole problem.

Some people just aren't. I think the problem is that humans have fallen back to choosing mates based on tail shaking and valueless social rituals like the birds do Instead of higher level thinking and productive teamwork.

You can say I suck at the first two, and you'd be right about that. But I don't believe that is the whole problem.

[Anonymous]

Agreed, many MGTOWs are a bunch of hateful whiners, just as many feminists are. Both claim to be about gender fairness and equality but both are equally toxic and divisive and we need to recognize them for what they are and stop supporting them. The longer we support movements like feminism and MGTOW, the deeper and more toxic the divide between the sexes will become, and the longer it will take to repair gender relations.

Feminism gave birth to MGTOW. The only way to get rid of both is to stop giving feminism legitimacy.

[LadyCroft]

as someone who made her own research on MGTOW I slightly disagree. If these men want to bitch about women on an online forum why shouldn't they first off? Women do it all the time so why not men? And there were once other places with more constructive and useful content but they have been taken down. What I see in MGTOW is that literally no organisation, political group or any other group of people is friendly towards them. It's literally men who want to stay single and everybody hates them for that. Even Incels get more sympathy.

[CasaNorba]

thank you for understanding!

its also kinda ironic how feminists always talk about KILL ALL MEN for the past 50+ years yet its blasphemy to call them a "hate group." we mgtow in other hand talk about withdrawing ourselves from relationships and choosing to better ourselves instead but for some reason we are the devils in the flesh

[Cheechee4me]

No actually women don’t. Even the ones who do are called out very quickly and vilified. These punks that you’re standing up for go on shootings and kill people. Cute a girl trying to score brownie points with guys who don’t give a shot about her or want her to have rights.

[CasaNorba]

@Cheechee4me MGTOW men have not killed or hurt anybody, please stop pigeon holing us with Incels

[LadyCroft]

@Cheechee4me I cannot give a serious answer to such nonesense

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I can.

One, I'm sure someone has.

Two, people can't just take everything they don't like and call it a hate group.

Incel literally just means someone who can't get laid. It's not a club. Even if some crazies think it is.

[Hallo626262]

@Cheechee4me nobody cares about your bullshit. You're a sexist shithead like all feminists.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

Just because MGTOW forum proved a disappointment doesn't mean you can't live the MGTOW life.
I wouldn't advise for it, but what I would advise is... just live. Do what you like, have hobbies, learn new things, join a charity, study for a higher education, whatever makes you feel that accomplishment.
While you do that you are sure to meet new people. And who knows one thing might lead to another.
Just live your life, enjoy it, don't be afraid to put yourself out there and things might smile to you one day.

[Anonymous]

Mgtow and redpill is life time energy saving. It open your eyes on the ugly truth. Most of us want happy relationship with average women but today's women thinks they should brings nothing except showing up they don't bring much to the table. Also they use so many dating apps like IG and Snapchat and TicToc they keep their choice open even when they're in serious relationship no man with self respect wants to be with such woman , they ruined it with their mindset that they can replace a quality man with someone else from social media.

By now they know very well men starting to wake up and they're also done with the hookup culture I hope the girls that still not damaged goods learn from this thing or else the wall is undefeated.

[captain_voidwalker]

In your 20, s most women are going through 500 miles of mr. Right 6 to 8 inches at a time. And when you hit your 30's your big head overpowers your little head and you start realizing women are not worth the hassle. My advice is get a dog, at least a dog is happy to see you when you get home. And a dog can't divorce you and steal 50% of your shit plus your children

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I have a cat because she's honest with me.

Dogs will love you unconditionally. Cats will let you know when you fuck up.

She's also twice as useful and half as expensive. She even poops all by herself.