Nice Guys - And What People Get Wrong About Them!

"Nice guy"

Pretty much everyone has seen the term between quotes, or nowadays even without quotes. In the recent couple of years it has positively become a swear word - proclaiming yourself a nice guy has become similar to strapping swastika on your arm, or yelling "Make me a sandwich!". But in my opinion, people interested in smearing men as a whole - a group of people starting with an F, and endign with an -inists, have managed to twist the meaning of this rather innocuous term into something rather sinister, without bothering to understand the underlying phenomenon.

So after reading another great take on this subject - great as in it is a textbook example of how nice guys are midrepresented -, I decided to write a myTake, and sort of address the issues touched on in the take. The link below leads to it:

The Difference Between A Nice Guy™ and An Actual Nice Guy

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT a nice guy. I would have called myself that a while ago, but since then I have accepted certain world views that are not "nice" or "good" according to my own moral framework; I did this in order to retain my sanity. So please don't even bother looking through my questions and poisoning the well, telling me I am not a nice guy - I know that. I used to be one though.

So without further ado:

Nice guys - and what women and feminists get wrong about them!

1. We give you gifts, and we expect something in return

Actually this is not at all a unique behaviour for "nice guys" - it is a direct combination of biological instinct, and social conditioning.

For one, women are by their nature attracted to men who care about them. Who are willing to make sacrifices for them. A man who is willing to make sacrifices shows his loyalty. The larger the sacrifice, the more the man is doveted to her. The idea is that the more rare your gift, or the more valuable your sacrifice, the larger your deed is, the more unique it is, the less people can replicate it. This is why women want diamond rings, despite there is no discernable difference between fake diamond and diamond.

Secondly, humans are social creatures - and the division of tasks and socialising required a level of trust. The most basic norm of trust was reciprocity - I scratch your back, you stratch mine. Society was BUILT UPON the concept of reciprocity.

You work, and you get paid.

You follow the law, and the authorities will protect you.

You pay for something, and you get something back.

It follows from this that when an action is not reciprocated, the person loses trust; trust towards the person, and trust in the concept of fair play in general.

And before you think this is a purely social construct, look at this dog:


The dog was possibly hurt in the past either by the owner, or another vet - so naturally the dog isn't trusting of the vet. He isn't willing to risk giving the vet an opportunity to hurt him. Now, in this case, the dog got a happy ending - but how many people would risk putting their hands in a vicious dog's mouth to help said dog?

So let's put two and two together - nice guys, and guys in general, want to give presents to women to signal how much they care about them. Men compete with their gifts for the woman's attraction. But this automatically turns on the reciprocity effect - you want something in return.

This behaviour is often compared to men expecting women to work like slot machines - which is actually a perfect analogy. Ladies, how do slot machines work? You put in money, and you pull, and you repeat, until you win. But you win. And slot machines are set up in a way that they always give you enough back that you will feel like playing on.


Well, let me ask you something, ladies! If you never let the poor guys win - why do you expect them to keep playing? They will quickly come to hate the game. And that's how you create misogynists.

Nice Guys - And What People Get Wrong About Them!

2. We feel the need to brag about being nice

So, is this any different when women brag about having a job, and being independant - when men are expected to do this by default?
As for "my teachers are nice. My co-workers are nice. The lady that cleans my share-house is nice" - how do you know that? Your teacher could be fucking a student, cheating on his/her taxes, your co-worker could be a pathological liar or an alcoholic, and the lady that cleans your house could have been a prostitute back in the day, or she could be stealing cinnamon rolls from the supermarket. I have seen crazier shit, it's hard to surprise me.

When I say I am a nice guy, I MEAN that I am a nuce guy. Because believe it or not, I could be not nice too. I could have become a lot worse person, if at any point I would have given into the temptation. But I fight my demons, and I win. That makes me nice. And yes, I am proud that despite the stuff that goes through my head, I have managed to stay true to certain values. And if you can be proud of having a shitty 5 to 9 job, or getting a degree in a 5th rate college, or just getting your makeup right every morning, I can be proud of being a decent person.

3. We live in a false reality where there are only nice guys and bad boys

Not really. However, it is pretty hard to ignore all the negative stereotypes we hear of men from women, shaming men and calling us names for things we personally never do - and after the umpteenth woman telling us of her abusive boyfriend, or cheating boyfriend, or otherwise scumbag boyfriend, despite us never even being inclined to do that, it's easy to notice a pattern where these women FOR SOME REASON always seem to find themselves dating a scumbag.

There are two possible explanations here.

1. These women are lying as a collective, or are collectively biased in their own favour, against men in general.

2. There really ARE men who are shittier, and men who are better, and for some reason, many women seem to be attracted to these shitty people, despite their horrible personalities, or in fact exactly because of that.

Of course I am open to suggestions - what leads to this polarized perception of men in your minds?

Nice guys
Nice guys

4. We don't know how to handle rejection

I don't think there is much to discuss here. Rejections are hard for everyone. In fact there were myriads of questions on G@G about girls not asking guys out - the consensus seems to be that women, just like men, fear rejection. The difference is that men have no choice - they have to accept the reality that they will have their hopes and dreams, and more importantly, their confidence shattered again. And again. And again. And again.

So until I see girls hitting up guys, and getting rejected ten, twenty, thirty times in a row, and not growing sad and depressed, I don't think women have any authority to speak in this regard. In fact I have seen plenty of women act incredibly shitty after being rejected. This is not a phenomenon exclusive to guys, or nice guys. Maybe if dating became more effective, and the sexual market place operated more smoothly, rejection would become less of an issue. But that is a problem for another time.

And now, a few things that this author, and probably many women, and feminists especially think is a "Real Nice Guy", but is in fact just female privilege:

1. We compliment women and give them presents because we are just nice

When was the last time you gave a man a present for no apparent reason? Oh, never? Here's economics 101 for you:

"no free lunch"
Again, there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Again, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If a guy (or anyone in fact) gives you presents without asking anything - he wants something in return. A "nice guy" isn't an altruistic guy. Altruism doesn't exist, or is insanely rare. In fact, an altruistic person would also be an irrational, nihilistic person, and you should be VERY careful with said person.


Reality is that again, if someone gives you gifts for no apparent reason, most likely that person is trying to form a social bond with him. And since now you know this, you have no reason not to reject their gifts in this situation - because if you accept it, and you don't reciprocate their feelings, you are in fact using them for material gains, and you are just as toxic as he is.

2. We don't say it, we show it

This is simply shaming tactics on the part of feminists. "If you are nice, be nice and shut up about it". Obviously being nice is not easy. It requires effort. And in exchange, we want the world to validate out efforts. A pat on the back, a hug, acknowledging words. Taking this away from them is actually disincentivising them from BEING nice.

But replace "nice" with anything!

> "I work hard"

"Then work, and shut up about it!"

> "I care about people!"

"Then why aren't you in Nigeria helping starving children!"

This is a means to silence people who have legitimate grievances over society not validating their efforts.

So ladies, listen up again! If it annoys you that a man values himself as a nice guy, and you want him to just shut up, and go back to the plantations, holding open cab doors, buying free drinks, and being your personal footstool - don't be surprised if guys will become assholes!

3. We are confident in ourselves, and make effort to improve

This is another form of shaming, as well as rationalising certain women's(and some men's) mindset about "nice guys", and men in general.

We have all seen and heard men being called weak, virgin, living-in-his-moms-basement, ugly, loser, etc, as a means to discredit their lived experiences. "You will get your dream girl as soon as you make an effort, and move out of your mom's basement! Fucking loser!"

The reality is that there is a large amount of young men who do everything by the book - they have careers, well paying jobs, they dress on point, they socialise, they are nice with the ladies, they aren't creeps, etc - but either because of some kind of shortcoming, or because of bad luck, they are lonely, they are longing for love, and eventually they become what disillusioned.

They say "well, I did everything right, the system must be rigged!" - and then they get the shaming tactics above. "You must be a fat, ugly loser. You probably have some character flaw, and that's why women don't want you."

^^In debating this is called gaslighting.


In fact the reason why people like to gaslight "nice guys" is rooted in my first point - the norm of reciprocity. People like to think the world operates on reason and virtue, and that their achievements are the direct result of their work. By telling them that someone, somewhere did the same thing as they did, and is still unsuccessful is tantamount to telling them they are privileged, and they just have it better. And most people don't like to feel privileged, they don't want to live in a world that is unfair, even if that favours them.


Ladies (and gentlemen), when you say stuff like this, remember - confidence doesn't grow on trees, confidence comes from positive feedback and determination. It's insanely hard to be confident when all your life you had been told you are inadequate or less than others. That you will never make it. Some can do it. Most can't. Support people instead of dragging them down!


4. We can take rejections

Ah, rejections again. I have been rejected a couple of times. Many times. Sometimes it hurt. Sometimes I brushed it off. Personally, I have never lashed out at someone for a rejection (I have lashed out over a breakup though, and I am not proud of that, but that was all that made sense at the time).
But this is not about me.

Another thing you ladies don't know about men - MOST men have a first time being rejected. And generally, the first, second, or maybe third time is when you get those nasty comments and texts. As I mentioned - men have to live with the reality that they will be rejected dozens if not hundreds or thousands of times throughout their live. But getting used to rowing your boat against the current is not easy - and sometimes men slip up.

All I can say is this - when women will en masse get rejected by men, and they will handle it better tan men, I will address this issue in detail. Until then, expecting one gender to have a level head, even though the other has little sense of responsibility, is extremely unfair.

Last Word

I hope you have read through this take, and enjoyed it. Please if you have something to add, add it in the opinions section below, I would appreciate it!


Bye!

-Benedek


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Most Helpful Girls

  • When you're so insecure being called out that you make a whole rambling nonsense post about how it's other people's fault your behavior is shitty.

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  • I'm tired of men who complain about abusive men but then don't turn around in the mirror and realize they have their own problems. Let me tell you -- stereotyping other men, bribing women, treating them like abused animals that need to be rescued, and acting as if this is a game you need to win, are all problematic things in their own right.

    Any sort of seriousness I could have given you got thrown out the window with only one portion of this myTake. If you're going to write a response to my myTake, at least show that you read it carefully because I DID WRITE that shitty women do exist and said that anyone is capable of being an asshole and an abuser.

    If you're hoping to get a better chance at women, maybe viewing them as people would be a good start. Also, not excusing your behavior due to stereotypes would also be great. If not, I highly recommend working on yourself first. Good luck.

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    • I get your frustration. I don't really agree with everything here

      For effective communication we should be familiar with, in a sense, categorizing people. It's wrong when used for the purposes of misogyny or racism, but generally everyone has done it, including you. ["nice guy vs real nice guy"]. It's how you select mates

      Generally it's not inappropriate to point out any real similarities between us and other species of the animal kingdom, at least where ever we somewhat compare. Again this is barring use for misogyny, racism etc.

      For example the fact that we "trade up" just because we value people for their place in heirarchy and not just because they're good at heart and love us is an animalistic quality present in other non monogomous species. Such species are those where males compete to be alpha. We're obviously far more sophisticated but we do of course favour males most competent in whatever it is they do. We also favour the most beautiful women who are high on femal hierarchy

      Maybe with some humanity on our part, we can stick around someone just long enough to see them take the steps to improve, if dissatisfied. Or appreciate that they already are. But instead, when we are not satisfied and have a seemingly better option, we decide to leave, even if we once loved the person.

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    • The delusion is you is really strong because all I'm reading is bullshit.

      "Not stereotyping, categorizing. I have interacted with men more than you, I know more about how they think than you do."

      You literally just wrote that you are basing some of your points off of a stereotype. I honestly don't know how you even tried to make your way around that.

      "I said (or meant to say) if someone gives an honest gift, think. If you are never going to reciprocate the love and attention that person gave to you in the form of a gift, or a favour, or anything - don't accept said gift."

      That is a bribe. Just because because you call it a gift, won't change what it actually is: a bribe. If you honestly can't tell the difference that is what a dictionary is for.

      "I never asked to not be a jock who can get any girl he wants. I never wanted to be a virgin at the age of 22."

      Oh wow, boo hoo. You're life is so hard. News flash: No one fucking cares. It's actually more common than you think. Get over yourself.

      "But seriously, why do you automatically assume that I objectify women? I don't."

      Maybe, just maybe, it's because you don't deny treating women like they are your prize or the fact that you think yoi need to save women from situations they didn't ask you to save them from. Also, it seems that most of these comments are coming to the same conclusion, so really, it's not a far-fetched idea.

      "I explained the thought process of what you would call nice guys, so that you understand how they see the world, and experience it."

      No all you did was explain the thought process of another sort of asshole who like to think they are nice. I get that dating is hard. Finding love is hard, and shitty rude women exists but the second you turn into edgelord and want to blame other people for why you seem to be a scumbag, I lose all sympathy. I've been rejected a bunch of times too, but I don't turn around and blame men for my problems.

    • Hon, do me a favour. If you want to be toxic - be toxic elsewhere. I don't need your negativity. You wrote a shitty take. I responded to it. Many people agreed with me. Apparently you can't accept that. That's OK. But please don't comment any longer. I really don't have time for this.

Most Helpful Guys

  • People have no real complaint against genuinely nice guys, or genuinely nice people generally. The problem is with self-declared nice-guys with ulterior motives and an over-inflated sense of entitlement.

    People who are genuinely nice, intelligent, brave, humble... etc. do not, or (at least) should not brag about it because it invalidates any sincerity. It's like saying, "I'm the most humble person you'll ever meet in your life!".

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    • "People who are genuinely nice, intelligent, brave, humble... etc. do not, or (at least) should not brag about it because it invalidates any sincerity."
      That's such bullshit. Why would I have to lie about my positive qualities just to conform to people's definition of humbleness? Acknowkedging the truth isn't the same as being cocky.

    • You don't have to lie, and being humble is not the same as lying. You can say or not say whatever you want. Just don't blame people for perceiving arrogance when they hear cringeworthy levels of bragging.

    • Ex boyfriend blocked me yesterday and he NEVER blocked me bfore and what's strange is yesterday before he blocked me I was on a singles site where I also met him a while back and a guy messaged me but it awfully seemed like my ex with same age and height. He asked to ask then sent his phone to text I said I couldn’t already move on to texting, 30 minutes after I wrote that 9:30 am my ex blocked me on viber at 10 am and I know because his online status was no longer visible. When I tried calling the number the guy gave with s blocked number it was one of those made up free numbers from an app. Does it sound like it was him? My ex would also use apps like textfree to get a number form and text me. Why did he block me? Apparently I hurt him and I tried going back and he complained how I hurt him so he expected me to keep trying? I asked earlier December to meet and he couldn't because he had to take his dad the alterations... What would make him block me? Isn't it too "coincidental?

  • Iam nice, i dont like being an aszhole cause i know it hurts people, but i have been few times iam very capable of being an aszhole when i want to.

    on the other hand i dont really give women gifts, take them out to fancy resutrants or act like iam their daddy, cause iam not, if i want her and i feel she's worh my time she will get treated well, but until she proves that to me iam not gonna invest in her.

    being nice does not mean being a doormat, or someone women use, you can nicely disagree with women and nicely let them down, its not much of a big deal really, the guys who f*ck it up are the ones who have a need to chase women hard and never disagree with them, dont do what you dont wann do its that easy.

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    • True. But it takes a certain level of intelligence and maturity to realise this, and stop thinking past your natural protective/provider instincts. The reason I wrote this take is because I think we should help and support people who think like that, to make them realise that women won't appreciate their efforts - and we definitely shouldn't shame them for trying to do what their instincts tell them.

    • I treat women like i treat my friends but flirt with them , thats the difference, i take them out to places i would normally go with friends to, listen to what they have to say and try to be as fun and cool as possible (even though iam usually on the quiet side so not a loud person) , i have paid for girls before but the most i have paid was 5$ for ice cream or a cup of coffee, its not about paying its about what paying signifies.

      when i pay 100$ on a date it means i worship her and iam trying hard to impress her with what i've got instead of who i am plus she will feel obligated to give me something in return, if she's drunk enough or easy she probably will but most girls aren't that easy and they won't like owing you anything especially when you're not their boyfriend, therefore keep it simple and just go out and try to have fun, when she's your girlfriend or there is an occasion and you've known her for a while, by all means spoil her (Within reason) but dont do as my friend did, he gifted a girl he saw once and chatted with a for a few months a bottle of perfume that cost him 100$ ... she wasn't even his friend to begin with let alone his girlfriend.

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What Girls Said 10

  • They are trashy men pretending to be nice so they can feel obligated to have a woman. Pathetic.

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    • There are also trashy women that tend to be interested, and take advantage of men for free stuff. Stop being sexist.

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    • It was never an argument weirdo but you obviously are his protective boyfriend.

    • Wow a lot of you guys are stupid

  • "Don't you draw the queen of diamond's boy, she'll get you you if she's able. For the queen of hearts is always your best bet."

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    • So inspirational! Here, I have mine:
      Nice Guys - And What People Get Wrong About Them!

    • My way is better. A man will be happier and treated better by a women that has a heart of gold. Guys gotta stop picking the high maintenance diamond obsessed bitches. Not to say the queen of hearts will be perfect. There's no such thing. But these imperfect good women do exist. You just got to weed through the bad ones. Just like us women have to do with men. My husband will tell you.

    • I don't have any idea whar you are babbling about.

  • Someone link that guy to Reddit
    like
    PUH-LEASE.

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  • Benny ☺️💕

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  • Okay

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  • :) nice mytake.

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  • Neat take

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  • I have had nice guys turn into monsters once I rejected them.

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    • "I have had nice guys turn into monsters once I rejected them."
      Perhaps they were frustrated. This is not exactly a rejection, but imagine my situation. I waas severely depressed for about 2 years - breakup, body image issues, lack of goals. I came out of that desperate pit of emotions with long, hard work, and I became not only willing to date, but datable.
      Sure enough I met this amazing girl. We didn't click perfectly, but we had a lot in common. Had a good month or so. Then she one day, out of the blue, told me that she just has too many things in her life right now, and she isn't sure she'll be able to do this. That she is affraid she will hurt me by not being able to spend as much time with me as possible. I tol her that's not a problem, I like her, I don't mind if we meet less regularly, as long as she's enthusiastic about it. At this point I felt that she's slipping, but I gave it another chance. After 3 days of convincing and back-and-forth, she decided to ditch me over text. Told me she doesn't want to harm me, yadda yadda yadda. I asked her if there is some ulterior motive in her, on 3 separate occasions. No, she's totally honest. Ok, then if she's honest, i told her you can't hurt me more than with breaking this off right now.
      I didn't want to go back. I didn't want to be depressed again. Reading articles on Reddit about hating women, because I was bitter and broken inside. I didn't want that. I asked very nicely. Tried to play it cool while she was gradually, though 3 days of talking, squeezed my heart dry.

      When she said her final goodbye, i told her that I just want to say one thing. And I told her how I felt - what I haven't told her. That she hurt me very much, and that it is pathetic that she can't sacrifice some of her own time just so we can meet every once in a while, and instead she burns bridged. So she decided to block me on social media, to "protect herself" as I have heard afterwards.


    • Now tell me - was I at fault for for being honest with her?
      I didn't turn into a monster - I was a monster before. A destructive, horrible monster was locked away in me, and I spend a lot of time leashing and caging it. And with a single move she released the demon. Am I at fault here?

  • Nice Guy
    A badge of martyrdom. Men who spend their most of their time whining about how women “just want to date jerks”. Oblivious to the fact that no one finds people who feel sorry for themselves attractive, much less people who blame others for their lack of success. Most self proclaimed “nice guys” are just as self-centered and misogynistic as the jerks they gripe about, they are just much more spineless. To stupid to figure why women don’t find them attractive, they conclude that in order to get laid they must treat a woman like shit.
    They tend to befriend women with the expectation that women owe them something more than friendship, then get all pissed off when the women tells them she’s not interested. Often going after women who are already in relationships, they misrepresent their intentions and try to use emotional manipulation and the facade of friendship as an excuse to get closer to them and score with them.
    The sort of man who will give my definition a thumbs down. :)
    Nice Guy: Why don’t women date nice guys like me?
    Honest Girl: Because, you have no self-esteem and you have to blame other’s for your problems.
    #rapist#stalker#chauvinist#completely unattractive#spineless#loser

    Nice Guy
    A manipulative male that forms friendships with females under the false pretense that it won't be a sexual relationship. All the while actually lusting after the female. He is then generally confused as to why the female goes after males that are open about their desires, and blames the female when it is his own fault for creating a friendship when he really wanted to date her.
    1. "Jim's such a nice guy, he tried to get into my pants after telling me he just wanted to be friends."
    2. "Alex came through real good tonight."
    "Yeah, I can't believe he bailed us all out, how much was it total $400?"
    #nice guy syndrome#just friends#asshole#friend zone#wuss

    Nice guy
    Nice Guy is nice with an ulterior motive; he believes pretending to be a decent human being entitles him to endless sex with his unfortunate female target. Instead of openly expressing interest and then moving on if rejected, the Nice Guy prefers to attach himself like a barnacle to one woman, hoping that if he pretends to care about her feelings long enough, he'll get at least an awkward handjob in the bathroom. Nice Guy is then bewildered when acting like a friend results in his getting treated like a friend. The advanced-level Nice Guy will call his lady of choice a frigid bitch while simultaneously patting himself on the back for being so nice. Nice Guy fails to understand that acting nice in hopes of getting sex is not actually the same as being nice, and as a result can be found in his natural habitat martyring himself all over the internet.
    If women really only dated assholes, then "Nice Guys" would have no problems getting women.
    #asshole#tool#jerk#stalker#wimp

    Nice guy
    A man, usually single, whose strategy to attract women is pandering and false. He can be recognized when he fits a pattern of using friendship as a pretense to demonstrate his niceness and then resenting her for not becoming attracted to him after he does so.
    I thought he was a nice guy before he started acting like of those inter-city window washers: doing 'nice' things I didn't ask for then feeling entitled to being paid. No way I'm fucking that creep.
    #asshole#loser#stupid#misogynist#creep

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    • I get it, but where is the part where you tell about just a nice guy in general? Because now it seems that every nice guy is a dick. Nice guy can mean many more things.

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    • They are pretty accurate. I left them in lol

    • @Opinion owner, You're pretty right about that. I think 'good guy' is a good word for that type of guy and 'nice guy' a good one for the other one. Just did not yet come up with that word 'good guy' for that group. Thanks for this explaination.

  • Is this some sort of college essay! So many words!

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    • It's a direct response to the linked myTake. Are you a new user? If so, this is a myTake - essentially an essay, or an extensive opinion on a given topic of your choosing. You can write one if you like.

    • Oh wow cool kinda like a rant

What Guys Said 18

  • 1. If you are doing something nice for a woman and you think you are going to get some sex or affection in return, something is wrong with you. Too many guys are types that buy a woman a diamond ring, but then wonders why she is screwing a guy who she has to provide for.

    2. No, nice guys, good guys, whatever you call them don’t brag about being nice or good guys. That’s kind of. . . well. . . strange. If you are nice or whatever, it is because you have a code. Stick to your code because it defines who you are. Don’t do something simply because you expect gratitude. That’s like being a dog or something. You stand on your hind legs because you expect a treat. That isn’t having principles or values. Stand for something, people may not like you, but they will respect you.

    3. I disagree. Even here at GaG, there are too many guys having pity parties about being left out. All the bad guys are out screwing women and cheating on them. And women keep giving them all the attention and love. That’s just silly. Almost all of these whiners can have the affection they are looking for, if they can just see past their own hurt and sense of worthlessness. If they could just stop looking at the world through rose-colored glasses and see how things really are. But the choice is theirs. I guess for some, it is just too much to risk being hurt or being authentic. As for dating and women being attracted to “bad boys”, the issue here is simply one of logic. If some women are attracted to men who are aggressive, men who are jerks or more accurately men who are confident, while constantly claiming they are attracted to traits none of these men have, then maybe those women simply do not know what they are attracted to. Is it so odd that most women have no idea what they are attracted to? Why on earth would you listen to a woman about how to attract women? They focus on trying to attract men. Talk to men, who are successful at dating women. They are the ones that know.

    I mean, we are supposed to be the logical, rational ones, . . right?

    4. Yeah, being a man is tough. Not sure what else to say about that. Find a way to cope with rejection. Find a way to understand that perhaps women are not as sure of what they want as they claim to be. Find a way to just see that women are just humans. They are just as confused, shallow, weird, and horny as men are.

    And I just want to add;

    People can call you whatever they want. Whining about it won’t stop insults. Associate with better people. Work on yourself. Get smarter. Get wiser. Get stronger mentally and physically. The world does not work on virtue. But it does work on logic. And what you say is dangerously illogical. It isn’t logical to expect that people are going to treat you nice and feel sorry for you, because you feel sorry for yourself. It isn’t logical to think that things will get better, if you do not do anything to make them better.

    We are men. We own our futures. Win or lose.

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  • Your very first point admits to manipulation. No matter how you spin it, THAT is not nice.

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    • No it does not. It's not manipulation to say that I expect something in return for my efforts. If I give money to the cashier, I'm not manipulation them into giving me the product I want. Some people scoff at the idea of breaking down sexual relations into transactions - but what else is a relationship? You exchange small packets of caring and attention, and grow dependant on each other. If only one party sends packets, they get tired. I am not saying the other party should be obligated to send packets - I am saying that the one receiving them, and not sending them, should make it clear that they won't spend any packets back. I know of a few girls I have actually overheard saying they are not actually interested in the guys they are having dates with, but they want to use them to have a good night, have them pay the food, the film tickets, etc, and then ghost them. Sounds like manipulation to me, All I am saying is that women should make it perfectly clear whether they show any interest in a particular guy, or if they aren't interested at all.

      For the record, i have been in a situation before where I had things going with more than one girl, and I told the one I was less interested in what's up. That's not much to ask from women either, is it?

    • Like I said, spin it anyway you want, but if you give gifts and expect some returns, yes, you are trying to manipulate.

  • Thought this was a interesting, is it 100% fact? Can't say, but good take

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    • Can't be fact, it's an opinion piece for a reason. It reflects my thoughts, which were distilled from my experiences and knowsledge about life. You can be certain that if I built arguments on actual numbers, those numbers are accurate. I won't read the whole thing through now though.

  • Nice guy = either ugly or feminine looking guy, or in other words, unattractive.

    Women are attracted to masculinity and not to pussies. If you don't have the looks, roid up, get tats, be bad ass, dominate, cause troubles, be bad body, get plastic surgery to look masculine... whatever, just be sure to rise your masculinity slider.

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    • That's just wrong.

    • Also, talking about roiding up from a UK guy... LOL. Here's the secret champ. I'd take GH if I could, but if you're not a Brit or a Mexican, you'll get locked up for years if you get caught. I'm not gonna take those risks.

  • We get it, you're an unfuckable loser. Whining won't change that.

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  • So this is namely a redirect post to r/niceguys?

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    • @iliamilik I think you are spot on. He was trying to make you jealous and crawl into your head.

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    • @iliamilik The two go hand in hand. He gets jealous, longs for you, longing and desire turns to hate when he sees you are happy without him, so he decides to stir things up. It's not unheard of. I have thought about doing this to my ex girlfriend because she got over me really fast, and I wanted to get back at her. Then I realised that that would be quite cowardly, so I just straight up told her that she got over me awfully quickly. It still hurts, but I feel like I had the moral high ground, which matters a lot in retrospect.

    • so if he had no feelings or hope of returning he wouldn't have acted that way correct?

  • Mr. 'nice guy' has spoken 😂

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    • KId, go back to school!

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    • That's what the "slower" kids always say. Just hit me up when you finish 8th grade!

    • I'm not from the US and I'm already done with high school for more than 3 years.

  • get a brain
    or a real life

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  • I'm the nicest guy

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  • The nice guys are so goofy

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  • Not a bad take

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  • good job benedek you triggered the feminazis, now were gonna have posts about this for the next 3 weeks

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  • Something we all get right about nice guys - even though almost everyone tells them what's wrong with being a nice guy, they are never going to change, the world must change instead. And it's never their fault. It's everyone elses.

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    • Well, as I point out in the beginning, I certainly have changed. So that goes right out of the window.

  • The first thing about gifts is a stretch to just force yourself on someone.

    When doing a favor only so you can force a favor back you're not really doing anyone a favor. That's just a form of blackmail. It's manipulation short and simple.

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    • Do you know what people do once someone does them a favour? They say "I owe you one." Do you know why? Exactly because of what I described. People do things for a reason. You do someone a favour to get something back - be that appreciation, money, status, etc.

      If you do people favours without expecting something back - keep in mind, feeling better about yourself is ALSO a form of payback -, you are what is called an altruist. Here, read about whether altruism actually exists:
      www.reddit.com/.../
      Either way, unless you sacrifice your life (meaning you won't get anything back, and even that is debatable, since you could do it to become a hero), your favour or sacrifice will always be motivated by self-interest on some level.

      The trick with being selfish is to do it in a way that benefits others.

      "That's just a form of blackmail. It's manipulation short and simple."
      No it isn't. I never said "I gave her a bouquet of flowers, so that she will have to sleep with me" - I said that if I give her flowers, and she will not give anything back to be, I will stop giving people flowers. And if everyone stops giving people flowers, the world will be a really bleak place.
      The solution to this is NOT to have sex with everyone in exchange for flowers - it is for women to signal to guys their interest in a straightforward manner, and not to use guys and string them along.
      In my language we have a proverb - roughly translated it means "If you said A, you should say B" - that is, if you set me up for something, don't let me down, and finish what you started. Girls should learn that if they ghost 9 out of 10 guys they meet, they will quickly run out of guys they can meet. The number of men tired of women's shit has increased DRASTICALLY in the last few years.

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    • Awesome take. I study psychology, this really helped me.

    • "This just shows you don't really interact with women"

      It doesn't but nice attempt at just dismissing what I said without having any actual reasoning behind why you're dismissing it other than you just are in denial. I'm curious how many women out there in real life you have had this discussion with have actually agreed with you. You are literally talk like those guys on the incel websites. I'm sure you think you're special and different from them yet you're spouting out the same viewpoints that many of them have. And who are you to complain about ad hominems? You're literally calling people sexist or socially inept.

      I have an honest question and I want an honest answer. How many girls have you actually been in committed relationships with? And how long was the longest one?

  • Trumpos will consider you a "White Knight" (that's barely better than a SJW)

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    • You hit all the marks. Congratulations!
      Nice Guys - And What People Get Wrong About Them!

    • You have the terminology incorrect. A White Knight is a guy who runs to a woman's defense, especially in situations where they do not deserve it like when the woman initiates violence. The proper term is "Nice Guy" with the quotation marks included, indicating that his niceness is not genuine but is simply given in the expectation of female attention and affection. A genuine nice guy will give a lady his umbrella just because it is the right thing to do. A "Nice Guy" will do so hoping for a BJ in return.

    • @Benedek38 You didn't understand it (once more)

  • Believe it or not, some people really are just good-hearted individuals... I gave a girl I liked a couple of gifts before, just because I wanted to. Not because I wanted her to do anything for me. It didn't work out. Maybe she thought I expected something in return, but when people make assumptions...

    You can't just think assume people have bad intentions all the time, I think that's really something that screws up dating a lot. There's like this "negative connotation" associated with sex and relationships. Sex is bad, therefore it is reserved for "bad" men, and women "can't see [good men] that way..." or something ridiculous. Or there's just a paranoia that "oh, someone likes me... that scares me" type of feeling, or for some reason people just expect the worst.

    Maybe someone really just actually likes you, isn't expecting anything ridiculous out of you, or intends to hurt you, or "pump and dump" as they say, and just wants to be the best friend in your life. What's so bad about that? Why the paranoia and shame tactics? People need to get over the feeling that people are out to get them all the time.

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    • Bro, you and I think so much alike.

      I can't tell you how many times I've fallen in this negative notation spot. It's like people have been brainwashed to see goodwill or just painfully average things like buying gifts or being polite as a trick from Satan lol. I remember one time where I asked one of my coworkers if she wanted to get a bite to eat after work and she literally through out the throwaway "I have a boyfriend" line. And I was like, "... Okay, that's nice?"

      Another woman I dated blatantly told me that I was a "nice guy" because--and I wish I were making this up-- "I didn't look like the type of guy who could protect her enough." -_-

      Then again, she was a moron and I broke ties with her.

      The moral of the story: don't make assumptions about people based on personal feelings. 9/10 out of ten your imagination gets in the way of what's actually going on.

  • The whole "nice guys" thing is nonsense. The term means nothing. It's something women made up as a defensive response to criticism of women being attracted to "bad boys". We all need to stop discussing "nice guys" because it is worse than meaningless; it's actually harmfully misleading.

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  • it is the people in general that suck, the society as a whole, will take you for granted and shit on you as long as you let it happen, society sucks until you demand respect and some decency and rights

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