Why "nice guys" have it all wrong!

Why nice guys have it all wrong!

For the longest time many nice guys on the internet have been complaining why is it that the nice guys always get rejected? Why do women always go for the bad boy or the asshole?

These are legitimate concerns and I will throw my two cents into the fray.

So first off all let us talk about how the nice guy thinks ; his world view of what an asshole is and what nice guy is.


From a nice guy's point of view the asshole or bad boy is the guy who is treating her like shit. But what does this mean to treat her like shit? The nice guys does not always specify this but the typical nice guy seems to think it refers to some kind of physical , emotional , or verbal abuse from the guy. The typical nice guy envisions that the asshole boyfriend / husband - is some guy who is always yelling and cussing at his girl , perhaps he slaps her around from time to time , or constantly cheats on her. He abuses her and maybe even steals from her. This is what the nice guy - who is usually some beta-male orbiter - envisions when the object of his affection uses him as an emotional tampon (not to mention free services from him).

"Oh her boyfriend is such an asshole!! Why is she with him and not with me?! When will she see how great I am?"

Nice guy:

This is how the nice guy envisions himself to be: Always attentive to all her needs , always agreeing with every word she says, always ready to drop everything for to attend to her , always complacent and even willing to act the part of savior or white knight if another man so much as smirks at her. He sees him self as the perfect man the "supreme gentlemen". In his mind he is the epitome of the perfect boyfriend and women should be lining up for a chance to be with him. The nice guy is the subconscious vision of what every women says she wants in a man.

You could say that these are the characteristics of what the internet had dubbed "incels" and I would agree that they are the precursors to the "incelism" but it is not always the case.

Many of us older men were at one point in our live nice guys. I was when I was younger but I think that this is a perspective that fades over the years as one has more and more contact with women. So then , how does the "nice guy" view of things match up to what a nice guy and an asshole or bad boy are in real life?

In reality :

An asshole or bad boy:

He has a wife or girlfriend and maybe he is a bit of a player. He does not intentional disrespect his women nor does he verbally or physically abuse her. He will state his opinions and views of the world - if his woman likes it fine if she disagrees with him that is also fine. He will help her out when he can but he does not allow himself to be a door mat either. If she starts acting like a rude cunt he will tell her to fuck off. If she is abusive towards him or belittles him he will walk and not look back. He will dole out some attention to her now and then but he is not smothering her at all hours of the day. He will have his moments of doubt and weakness but he does not share this with her ( why should her? ) . Like all red-blooded men he enjoys sex but he doe not allow himself to be manipulated via "sexploitation" nor will he become her personal ATM. He will appreciate having her but he will walk if he needs to. In short the so called asshole or bad boy is a man who stands up for himself and does not allow a female to mistreat him. He will walk and not look back if needed.

This is , in essence , the type of guy that many women call assholes or bad boys and that the so called nice guy fails to understand as the nice guy has yet to learn that women often say one thing but mean another. As much as women complain about the bad boy - they are inevitably and subconsciously drawn to him for reasons that even they do not understand.

The nice guy:

The nice guys views himself as a savior of sorts or perhaps the anti-thesis of the bad boy. He sees himself as a moral superior. But the reality of the the nice guys is is very , very different.

The nice guy is often subservient to the object of his affection - he agrees with all that she says not matter how idiotic or unjust , he rarely lets his true opinions be know, he sacrifices his own time , energy and money to spend it on her. He is easily exploited by the object of his affection and women in general - he buys into their sad sob stories , he gives them money and buys things for them , he does them favors , he grovels and explains when he feels the need to , he is manipulated by the promise of sexual favors. As I stated he views himself as a "supreme gentlemen" yet fails to comprehend one very transcendent perspective ; he is often viewed with disdain and contempt by the object of his affection , he is seen as weak and spinless. Do not misunderstand - a women might appreciate the things that he does for her but this does not mean that she is even remotely attracted to him. The nice guy is used and abused by many a women and they do not see it unless it is pointed out to them. And even so they will often resist any changes in thought process.Until then , they will always be the nice guys.

Why "nice guys" have it all wrong!
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Most Helpful Guys

  • Mezius
    Id like to throw in my two cents and explain a couple of things I agree and disagree with. I also had a heavy nice guy mindset when I was a teen that faded away as I grew older.
    The bad boy (in theory): I percieved the bad boy to be the big alpha male, the badass extroverted party boy player that goes around acting like a gangster, being a bully, cheating on his girlfriend, and being verbally abusive, physically abusive, or both.
    The nice guy (in theory): The nice guy believes he has everything most average girls desire. He's kind, sweet, caring, interesting personality, more intelligent, and a lot more fun to be around than some brain dead culture zombie. He would do anything to stand up for his girl and cater to her whims to make her happy. He's willing to change himself and compromise.
    The bad boy (In reality): Not much different from the bad boy (in theory) in most, but not all cases. Guys are like this because it's how we're wired to be, and how we're taught by society, culture, and human nature. "Don't be a bitch. Don't get pussy whipped. Man up!" The difference is the nice guy thinks the bad boy is just an asshole because he has unresolved issues. In reality, that's just how life is, and sometimes being an asshole is justified. Women aren't always innocent little angels. They lie, cheat, steal, play, and manipulate just as much as men. They just get away with it more by playing the victim.
    The nice guy (In reality): The nice guy in reality usually tends to be the shy awkward nerdy kid that lacks understanding of female psychology and social skills. He's in denial of his place in the social hierarchy and refuses to make positive changes in his lifestyle. "Girls don't like me because Im not a gangster wannabe and I don't go around being an asshole to women." In reality, he's undesirable because he has more feminine qualities which is a turn off to women, such as being submissive, being a push over, being too emotional, or just plain being too shy and insecure to approach a woman or satisfy her needs. (Yes, girls like sex too. As long as it's with the right person.) & being sexually confident is a turn on. & much more importantly he is unable to view things from the female perspective. The main issue is usually looks and money. Let's flip the script. If you were a girl getting hundreds of messages a day, are you going to pick an ugly dude that works at McDonald's just because it's the right thing to do? Hell no! It's sad, it sucks, it's not fair. It is however, the reality we live in. A girl isn't going to date you just because you're nice, smart, interesting, or fun to hang out with, but those are good qualities to have. You're not desirable because you refuse to change your lifestyle. Work on your career first, go to the gym, work on your social skills. You gotta look at it like you're a product trying to sell yourself.
    Is this still revelant?
  • CasaNorba
    I agree all the way as I too was a nice guy myself during my high school era. it wasn't until I met the girl who almost won the title as my first girlfriend that I decided to embrace the red pill mentality because this chick tried to put me in harm's way. nevertheless, I met my actual first girlfriend months later who just got out of a toxic relationship after I met her.

    it was then that I realize that women are technically at fault for so many young dudes developing the nice guy syndrome. I mean whenever you ask women (including your mom, sisters and other female relatives) for dating advice what do they usually tell you?

    "oh just be nice, have a good personality, etc."

    yet for some odd reason, their actions will always contradict their own words. I remember a guy once here said that all incels and dudes with nice guy syndrome will disappear and seize to exist once mothers stop raising their sons to be sweet, gentle asexual teddy bears and to be honest I dont think he couldnt of said it any better
    Is this still revelant?

Most Helpful Girl

  • janna_jcb
    yeah i generally agree with you, but i think one thing that is worth mentioning is that plenty of women will refuse to let men do things for her or let them buy her gifts when she suspects he expects something in return that she doesn’t want to give. i’ve been in that position with a few guys and i hate it, one was almost pressuring me to let him pay for stuff but i felt terrible about it so i refused. not all women use ‘Nice guys’, just thought that’d be good to point out
    Is this still revelant?
    • It is also cultural. I am from the USA where women expect the man to pay for everything. Later on they also expext the man to pay for all her bills too.

    • janna_jcb

      oh that’s weird, most people here think it’s normal for the man to pay for the first date and after that you either split it or alternately pay for dates, and it is definitely not normal to pay for the other’s bills

    • In the USA women expect the man to pay for everything.

    • Show All

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What Girls & Guys Said

  • sejla
    Nice guys don't have to be doormats they just have to set boundaries with people and learn not everyone is worthy of their time and help.

    The so called bad boy sounds like the description of a sociopath. Who wants to be with a person who always keeps their distance and never fully commits to a relationship.
    • young women do.

    • CasaNorba

      " Who wants to be with a person who always keeps their distance and never fully commits to a relationship."

      the vast majority of women do, for some odd reason.

  • Well said.
    It seems a major differentiator is the nice guy isn't confident in himself and is easily manipulated, and the "bad boy" is confident and not as easy dissuayed.

    The frustrating part is the inverse... that the bad boy often is putting up a facade but it still feels good to her... thus narcissists can play that and look wonderful where as a "nice good hearted" guy can try to be nice to win her favor and the contrast doesn't work... she feels the "asssholes" masculine.

    It seems women are drawn to these types at young ages... hormones. They learn as guys do to filter out motives and what they can tolerate. It takes decades, offspring, choices, mistakes. And here we are. The product of...
  • Women like to be spanked by men. Random men. Men they've never met and never consented to.
  • Adam_INTJ
    Sounds like you described the "needy guy" from Attracting Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson.

    I'd add that the "bad boy" is in reality a non-needy guy. He doesn't need people's praise or validation. Because of that, he says what he honestly thinks, lives how he honestly wants to, and sets boundaries. If somebody crosses his boundary or offends him, he cuts them out or leaves in a way that is firm but not rude.

    I think the willingness to walk out if a boundary is crossed is the main difference between the needy/nice guy and the bad boy/non-needy guy.
    • Interesting.

      I need to find that book.

    • But it is what I have seen in my life time - the bad boy vs the nice guy

  • It does kinda feel like nice guys get friendzoned while bad guys are trusted for being protectors and emotionally strong
  • startingfitness
    this is 100% spot on. except i would replace nice guys with simps /whiteknights. that term is more accurate.
  • Shamalien
    basically agree yeah, tl; dr stop giving a fuck what woman think and they'll like you
  • Women like black eyes more than nice comments. They want to feel like shit so they stay with bad men.
  • I will cut to the point. In short nice guys are timid generally weak guys that put women on pedestal and they are needy. That means low status or low value. Bad boys or cool guys are confident, masculine guys that know their value. They lead and dominate. They have high status, they are valuable. Women want to be with a man who is valuable. They want to feel safe and secure, they want to get the best genes that they can get. It's not about being nice guy or bad boy it's about being confident, masculine or timid, weak, passive. Women would prefer strong, confident and also nice guy.
  • Bloodflows15
    I’ve always just wanted to be a good, genuine partner for someone but it never seemed like anyone wanted that anymore. I got stomped on a lot until I ran into my soulmate. I couldn’t believe it when my ex who cheated on me the entire time we were together told me on a call the other day that “His grandma really liked me because I was a nice guy.” I told him “Yeah. Because all of your friends and the people you try to date are clowns.” People want a good person but then spit on your face when they find you. Don’t really get it. I’ve experienced it from both genders.
  • You got a point or two.
    i am always aware that there are people out there, who are in it only for themselves whether it is leeching females taking advantage of men's money or the charming fuckboys, who are on a one night stand marathon with as many females as possible.

    but women aren't love and Sex ATMs, where you insert kindness coins and get an hour or two of lovely sexy time. Although there are some of them, which accept money payments in exchange for love and sex.

    frankly if a man considers himself to be so nice, that he allows himself to be taken advantage of by so much by parasitic females, then that should be taken as a learning lesson until he gets it right. Both men and women need some solid standards.
  • lsjr16
    Honestly , as a nice guy myself I can understand what your saying. However I do say no when but when I do the girl gets mad.
  • WarningWarning
    Well this is true unfortunately.
  • 🤔🤔👍
  • Joker_
    Thanks for explaining
  • batwoman51
    I wish if I have a nice guy
    • what he's talking about passive, weak type of nice guy. You want confident, masculine guy but also nice.

  • Anonymous
    Fully agree with much of what you said. For me I think the other key that's being missed by most "nice guys" (and I was definitely one of them and took FAR longer than I should have to wise up) is that they think that they can get somewhere by displaying "good boyfriend" qualities like reliability, kindess, responsiveness, attentiveness, etc. And indeed there is NOTHING wrong with any of those things. The problem is though that a girl only REALLY cares about "good boyfriend" qualities in a man she's SEXUALLY attracted to. So displaying good boyfriend qualities is putting the cart before the horse. You need to attract a woman first.

    And if you think about it--that's BLINDINGLY obvious. It's EXACTLY how most of us guys think too. You just don't care about a girls "good girlfriend" qualities if you're not physically attracted to her. That's when a guy hears, "oh you should really meet this girl I want to set you up with--she has a GREAT personality!" he knows it's going to be a complete waste of time.
  • Anonymous
    Makes an interesting read. Turns out I'm not nearly as nice as I thought if your analysis is to be believed.
    But then a strong minded woman needs push back or she'll take the piss and not respect you. She probably knows this about herself too.
  • Anonymous
    This is so a mest up version of the truth bad boy are just bullies who dominate nice guys are just kind guys girls like bullies shows power.. That's all there is too it nice guys are boring end of the day Girls are just into pure evil as long as they don't get burned
  • Anonymous
    Dr. Robert Glovers book was very powerful and eye opening.
    • Who?

    • Anonymous

      he is the author of this book titled "No More Mr. Nice-Guy"

  • Anonymous
    I've already preached the gospel on what women really want and why they end up whining because of it.

    There is nothing any man can do about it