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Stop calling manipulative guys "nice guys" (Page 3)
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I use Nice Guy as an ironic term.
I didn't know people used it sincerely.
And what do you think is the reason of the meaning of nice and why guys?
He knows the meaning of nice. He's using it ironically. Like, duh?
And why guys? It's just how we describe a particular phenomena among some men.
Women who behave in a similar manner - well, there are lots of gendered slurs for women. Take your pick.
Calling out guys doesn't men it's only guys. We're just not talking about the other genders in that moment.
@MlleCake What makes you think I don't know that people use "nice" ironically? The thing is I'm bringing awareness to anyone who's 100% brainwashed by that whole "nice guy" thinking they're evil even if we mean what we say. I'm not talking about people like you but that term is just sexism.
@MlleCake So why is it ever normal to describe guys ironically but not normal if women? You know where are plenty of fake nice girls out there too. Why? Oh that's right. The biases.
I say "Nice Girls" ironically too.
It's not something extremely complicated...
Sure and gladly you do but that doesn't really change the empirical data of society that people actually say nice girls normally. In that case, I'm here speaking up that many guys don't like it. Not just me.
The label associated with anyone doesn't, and never will, change the behavior of an individual unless they internalize it.
Putting yourself into a romantic category is already a detrimental cry for help in terms of men and women's self esteem. So if people were less proud of their dating archetype they would be less quick to elaborate on semantic meanings behind a label that doesn't matter.
But you know what makes more sense? The word itself in the dictionary. You know stereotypes can be offensive too but why not men? What you explained isn't even nice. No body has to be ironic and insincere at any circumstances because that not really necessary.
And I remember you said you were a feminist. That's a cool excuse so that you'll not be a part of men hating in society.
Using "nice guy" as an ironic term isn't going to hurt anyone and it is not a form of man hating.
Interesting observation that you view me claiming to be a feminist as an excuse to be exempt from having opinions.
It's not sexist to use any term ironically, and to be offended by the observation that some men who call themselves nice, aren't being sincere.
You do not need to express the statement that you are nice, you just need to be nice. Just saying that you are nice is an indicator that you need to constantly reaffirm it.
It's not exactly men hating to make that observation.
"isn't going to hurt anyone" Are you sure? Because if that were true, your there would be no one agreeing with me here and there would be no downvotes to your opinion. It's not sexist according to you and it may seem like no body cares about it it's because no body is exactly speaking up. I have to rephrase what I said why it's sexist "destroying the ideology of a nice guy as if nice guys don't really exist and as if guys aren't exactly nice." You don't call a criminal innocent if they claim to be innocent. There are plenty of girls who don't claim themselves to be but they still act like one. Actions speaks louder than words and we don't have to call them "Not feminists" Why is that?
*who don't claim themselves to be feminists
Are you talking about the preachy "Omg why can't I find a nice guy?" mentality I see on Facebook posts from toxic single girls?
Look at those guys in here who has the satisfaction of being nice instead of having motives but viewed as assholes who have motives by people. You just don't know how many guys are suppressing their feelings right now because of that BS.
Because those are the types of people I refer to as "Nice Girls"
Because preachy is preachy and suppose to be an insulting word? Are you just blind that an innocent word that's suppose to mean pleasant has turned the opposite?
Then they aren't nice. You can call them what ever you want. Nice means something else. Kids were taught to be nice at school. Does that mean they're now taught to be creeps? Because were suppose to take that ironically or sarcastically.
We say it's nice to see you. We say good (synonym to nice) morning, good afternoon, any greetings. Can't you see why many feminists gets offended by it? We just hi. Hi means hi but according to them, that's bullshit. I would throw a metal dictionary on their faces.
The point of this take is to stop them from letting it be. That's the whole point. People just let it be and I'm here to speak up.
The word "nice" has never changed.
Maybe you're confused, my original opinion referred to men labeling themselves as "Nice guys".
Why would anyone do that, if you are kind, caring or "nice", why is that something you have to constantly confirm? Seems more like an attempt to validate an ego or even confirm a disposition associated with being single.
It's the mentality that can form from people just labeling themselves in a frugal attempt for people to take them seriously, or even find them romantically compatible.
Seeing an innocent word being applied to anything does not make it inherently innocent, nor does it demonize the actual word.
Very few people actually think that being nice is a bad trait, but the term "nice guy" or "nice girl" has been made into a culture of men and women trying to justify their lack of redeeming qualities by saying they are "nice".
It's not a product of anyone but those who wear a mask, then as soon as they get it ripped off, they become a product of internet culture, and by proxy, dating culture.
I have another point here. It's just like saying guys are never nice but if they are, they aren't. Still doesn't sound sexism? Or it can be for women too for you but not as popular as it pointing to men according to the empirical data but we can say nice to things and other creatures too properly. Or I guess we can say humans aren't nice but if they are, they aren't."
And how would you describe a guy who is nice with that word only?
Me:"Oh him, he's a nice guy"
Other person: "Like, the NiceGuys on reddit?"
Me: "No, he's just friendly."
Other person: "OK cool."
It's not that complex.
Teachers say to kids "Be nice to others" What teacher would mean "be creeps to other" Oh that's right, they're kids. What about adults? They're still humans. Why would that be any different? All those synonyms for nice will run out soon. Pleasant, satisfactory, good, kind. Lets just wait till those people you so called "nice guys or girls" claims to be any of those and you're just there letting it be.
And why would it be complex to just call someone as is? Not nice? How hard is that to do? I have better terms I said in my my take. How hard is it to use those?
"Nice guy" has become more of its own noun based on internet linguistics. As opposed to a "nice" guy.
It's not really an application of an adjective because of the way it's phrased.
I guess people these days are pussying out because they don't know how to be straight forward anymore.
And that needs to be stopped. That's my point here. There's a reason why those are not in the dictionary because nice isn't specifically for people only. It's for everything else.
You're just full of denial to people who actually care about it and wanting to change it.
People are straight forward. It's why we attempt to clear confusion. It's not anyone else's fault that people aren't willing to look past random popularized adjectives and labels.
Ok if they really are straight forward, they would've stick to one ideology.
to clear confusions, they're not nice. www.google.com/search Do you think manipulative people are any of those? Google never said so.
Lol I'm not in denial, a label is not going to affect how I behave and respect others. That's how most normal people think.
Saying that's how most normal people think doesn't really make you truthful. That label itself is a disrespect to actual nice guys. Guys who cares, sensitive and friendly to lots of people. The only thing is that they won't mind is because of their kindness and here I am speaking out. That surprised everyone. Even people here who have that issues agree with me. And are you saying they aren't normal? It's basically a human thing to have feelings and not normal? They choose not to say something about it.
If people say that they're nice, I would still observe them properly if they really are nice and if they really are, I would consider them nice. Not those manipulative cunts who ACTS nice.
There are so many nuances that come with it to the point of it just being a si gle question about anyone being able to clear up any type of assumptions made.
It's called communication.
What else? lovely, kinda, gentle, soft, sensitive and cool. What are you gonna do if a "Nice guy" call himself any of those synonyms? Are you just gonna call them like how they label themselves? Ideology destroyed.
I know communication but there's no communication in people changing the meanings and sarcasms. We communicate straight to the point. And that "nice guy" is still an insult to lots of people tho you don't know. It's more like society is taking advantage of nice people these days.
But to most people those labels don't get communicated to the thalamus, those emotions don't get filtered out for less than 3 seconds until they reach the frontal lobe after they came from the hippocampus.
Communication about things that are not life threatening is very easy, especially when it's not in person.
I don't think most people do as there are 7.5 billion people on this planet waiting to be brainwashed by it. And yeah communication is easy not until people start making their own meanings.
Sarcasm is communicated ironically, it's not communicated with the purpose of informing. Its the goal of relating to a sentiment associated with those who "act" nice, but really aren't. If a police officer asked me about a murder, I wouldn't tell him anything sarcastic manner, not only because I don't exactly wanna get cuffed and video taped, but also because I'm taking his questions seriously.
Since a guy's relationship archetype is not important to me, I'm not going to take anyone who labels themselves in a dating category seriously. Especially if it's the difference between a "Nice Guy" and a "nice" guy. It's literally just an extra sentence of communication to discern the two.
That sarcasm actually triggers nice guys and not supposed to be used normally. I don't care about being sarcastic to other things. But nice guys focuses to guys that's all.
Nobody is making new actual meanings. This is urban dictionary level linguistics. It's nothing more than internet culture producing slang for dating archetypes.
The fact that people take that sarcasm for granted changes its meaning yea?
And to the thing being to guys in specific, "nice girls" are talked about as well, just perhaps not in your view scape.
No body rejects a nice girl and say she's a nice girl. Guys are pretty straight forward for your information.
And by the way, I see posts here about nice guys with no quotation marks describing them as evil. How would nice guys react to that? Oh you don't know because you don't care. We do care
There's nothing highly cerebral about sarcasm, sure, on the internet it's hard to tell (due to Poe's law) without it being a core theme in a community. Which, appropriately, is the primary usage of the word, including G@G. Since there are plethoras of girls and guys who complain about their crush choosing someone over them, and how others can't appreciate their kind and sweet personality.
It's a layer of irony that makes those types of people angry, because we don't take them seriously, and that's the only way to combat those types of people.
Ok, so from that context, you clearly see we are not talking a bout an actual nice guy. You aren't the lest bit confused.
An actual nice guy is nice.
Because "nice girl" has an assumed connotation in our language that indicates she isn't sexual or overly so, and probably doesn't engage in any behavior like drinking a lot or using drugs.
You go fix that, and then we can talk about whether we can connote our own meaning, for our own purposes.
@MlleCake You're not talking about actual nice guys then there's no need for you to call them nice. It's really simple tho.
@MlleCake nice girl has also taken the synonymous meaning to the ironic usage of "nice guy" in certain cases. The girl you're talking about can also be referenced as an "innocent" or "shy" girl.
Nice girl has also adopted its stereotype into negative projections of the opposite sex, similar to the "nice guy" archetype.
People just get comfortable saying "nice guys" that they forget about the quotation marks anymore and again as if nice guys don't really exist because of the notion that guys aren't nice, if they are, they aren't and that really makes sense. You don't hear a guy say that from a guy very often even if that exist because we know that would also offend women.
Well we clearly aren't afraid of offending people who aren't actually nice, as you can see.
The only connotation behind saying "nice guys" ironically is the implications that they aren't nice, as well as the reason to pretend to be a gentleman.
And there goes my point of people taking advantage of the real nice people here. I can also say my mytake applies to women too. "stop calling manipulative girls "nice girls""
The reason why I choose guys is because many girls here talk about nice guys so much being evil. The point is they can call them evil. Not nice. Nice applies to sensitive empaths.
Do you think that girls are actually talking about a nice person when they call them evil? Or do you think they are using the ironic term? Because I'm not a psychologist yet, but people who use ironic terms are most likely communicating it as a noun produced from linguistics, not an adjective to describe an individual.
Doesn't matter if they're using the ironic term nor not. That's still ruining the ideology. It's just like when people say something, the other person gets mistaken because it wou'ld make more sense if they explain what they ment.
Even sarcastic itself can meant to be offensive to anyone not just to nice guys but I just see that commonly used by girls a lot.
If a man is actually nice, he wouldn't be triggered by this, because it isn't about him. We aren't saying actual nice guys are bad. We're saying men who claim to be nice but turn out not to be are a common experience, and we're talking about the phenomena.
No one is misusing a word or changing it's meaning.
There's no "ideology" behind being nice.
Nice guys use a SPECIFIC form of manipulation. If you just called the person manipulative, then they would need context as to how they are manipulating anyone. "Nice guy" is a term used for guys who use that specific manipulation tactic. If anything it's more straight forward if you know the term. And it's not even that complex if you just make the effort to inquire about it, which... According to you, is unreasonable?
@MlleCake You wouldn't exactly know what's going on in people's feelings. I interviewed people about this and it does kinda bother them but based on how they react, I can feel them being hated because of that. at least there are people open about that here and you can't assume they're not real nice guys.
I would assume they're normal people because I don't know if they;re actually assholes either.
Even sarcasm in general can be offensive. What more if it's nice guys? And that's gendered.
It's not really offensive, it's combative. Sure some sarcasm can put others down, but the only thing with labeling deplorable behavior from a specific gender is against toxic behavior from proclaimed "nice girls" or "nice guys"
If you really wanna encourage anyone, be straight to the point and stop using that sarcasm while bringing them down.
Who are we bringing down?
Those nice people by being sarcastic about it. Isn't that clear?
I thought that we made it very clear what our terms refer to, but then you say we're putting people who are actually nice down. When the terms "Nice Guy" or "nice" guy, will be used in different meanings. And one of the things to consider is that if people are so offended by the implication that they are not nice, and get genuinely hostile or depressed about it. Are they actually empathetic, or are they just guilty and defensive?
And I thought I was clear about them being actually empathetic that they don't know how to speak up. Just denying the fact that every people are different. You can't explain vision to blind people same as you can't explain feelings to insensitive people.
When you said it isn't offensive, maybe for you but I said it CAN be offensive but not exactly but can be. Big difference.
Empathy is not the emotion associated with not being able to speak up.
People with empathy can see both sides of a spectrum or a situation, meaning that they are open minded.
That usually end in people not caring about labels, since they can already see the other spectrum included.
But sensitivity still stands. Sensitive people are usually empathetic. See how you're using real ideologies this time?
Being offensive implies that it's a slight against someone.
Being nice does not make you look at the "Nice Guys TM" and get upset. It makes you upset if you are too proud of a characteristic you may or may not possess.
What do you mean real ideology? Ideology isn't objective. It's completely subjective, and it isn't something you claim overlaps others.
Oh then it's subjective after all? So that still proves that it's a ideology they're talking about nice guys being evil.
No.
Because they are not talking about actual "nice" guys.
How many times...
Does this need to be communicated?
It doesn't need to take a communication. The point again is that the label itself can offend anyone. If they're not talking about nice guys then they don't have to call it that. Even if they're not talking about actual nice guys sure but the name itself? It has nice in it.
You don't have to communicate. I still don't accept that claim saying it's not offensive just like many people here.
Saying so just doesn't really make you truthful. I got the dictionary to back up my claims. There's no dictionary for sarcasms.
Saying it's offensive doesn't make it offensive.
It does however, cause you to be defensive for hours, instead of having a meaningful conversation with someone.
And yeah ignoring the fact that people have different feelings. Explaining because I can and it's already defensive? Doesn't really take a genius to understand this is a meaningful topic. You probably just can't view other people's perspective. There are 4 people downvoting you tho and I'm not saying that makes me right. That just means there are people who agrees with me along with 15 other people who likes this mytake.
You can call someone bullshit and all you have to say is it's not offensive and it will magically become not offensive just because it doesn't open you.
This conversation is as offensive as whether or not a hot dog is a sandwich.
It's nothing that is going to affect anyone if they are actually nice people. Which explains my down votes.
And, we're not even saying people won't be offended.
It's just not up to you how we communicate about these experiences. You want control. You don't have it. Go ride off on your Huffy bike.
And what's with that ad homonyms again? Actually it's people like you would like to control by changing the dictionarys meaning my being ironic.
@SketchForger that don't work just explains that there are people who disagrees with you and that ideology.
@MlleCake like you're trying to dismiss argument by telling me off. As if that would magically make we really want to control any one when ironically coming from people who don't go by what words actually meant
Nobody is changing the dictionary definition of anything.
How many times do I have to say that? You disagree with people changing things when nobody is even trying that. You're presenting a false equivalence!
Then if you're not saying that then nobody should normally be saying nice guys ironically. And how many times do i have to say that?
I don't disagree with people trying to change things but i don't agree with you saying it is not offensive
I don't care you're some words change but i'm talking about that specifically not other words that are changing
Do you not know the implications of irony? Do you not know what linguistics are? Do you even know people who are ACTUALLY nice, and what they think about this?
For some MIRACULOUS reason, I have a feeling I'm not going to get a direct answer for any of my questions.
I know the implications of irony that it is not right to use that normally especially when you're talking something about specific. For some miraculous reason, i can say the same thing
We aren't changing the meaning of the word. The ironic use of words is common all over the place in English.
And you aren't even confused yourself. No one is.
You just don't think it's fair for us to have this observation and give voice to it. It is fair though.
Nothing you can can do to make that wrong.
That still doesn't really make it right if people use it to normally specially if you're talking about nice guys which is pretty common until some people view it as that is what nice already means someone here in this opinion section
I keep repeating myself about how "nice guys" is not referring to people who are actually nice. Irony is not used to communicate informally. If you had a conversation with somebody, they would understand the difference in meaning. Because it's not complex, it's an ironic term used for manipulative incels. It does not change the adjective, and it is not offensive to actual nice people. It is only offensive to those who are too proud of a single personality trait, and if it challenges that, then they get defensive.
You're not changing anything but that doesn't really change the empirical data that there are people changing it
There is NO empirical data indicating the change of the actual meaning. Absolutely nothing credible.
And i keep repeating myself that you don't have to be ironic about it normally because that can be offensive to a lot of people.
And i keep explaining that every people are different and feelings are subjective that you cannot really explain them just like you cannot explain visions to blind people. If you don't want me to keep repeating then stop repeating
Yeah, it will only be offensive to the manipulative incels! Good observation!
There are no empirical data according to you but i'm pretty sure that people i know know at least one who doesn't really mean nice people are nice anymore because of that whole irony being used normally
When did i say it will only be offensive to manipulate incels? No i said they're offensive to lots of people have feelings
By calling them manipulative incels, you're just proving my point of having ideologies
You could make the same argument that me saying "black lives matter" is offensive to white people.
When it's not.
It doesn't verbally include white people because it's an observation about racially targeted police brutality, but it does not EXCLUDE people of other races being shot.
If I were to refer to a manipulative incel as a "Nice guy" I obviously don't mean that he is a nice guy. And since I am not attacking anyone who is actually nice when referring to other people as that, it should require a 3 step process to figure out if you know absolutely NOTHING about it.
You're not confused, nor are you offended, you're projecting, and it's counter productive.
I said it.
And you could make the same argument saying some random crap to people can't be offensive. When it actually is. You're talking about black lives matter here which is so different from the real topic here if you don't want me to compare something else than don't compare
It's the same mentality. You a not make such an egregious claim that saying something is offensive just because (according to you) it CAN offend people. Anything can offend anyone if we were to apply your logic to any situation.
According to me and those other people who agree with me too. That being used normally not being right still stands and those people agreed with me
You're talking about specific situation but i'm talking about people who use that normally
We already established that. And this is G@G, which is FULL of the "Nice Guy tm" stereotype. Of course they agree with you, because they are insecure and don't want people to think that they are creeps.
Good job assuming they are the nice guy tm. But i only see a few of them who posts many stupid questions many times. Are you sure all 15 of them are them? Also there are four other girls who likes my my take
More like you're saying gag is filled with creeps
So right. if they agree with me they want to be called assholes then
As i just said there are better terms for them. Look at the terms i mention there
Congratulations on the 4 out of 15 girls that agree? Having G@G members defend your position doesn't prove your position, if anything it shows you don't actually have a constructive argument.
Basically there are only two people who disagree with me. Thos others are just neutral to it because they know that it is bad to use it normally instead of defending themselves because they wanna use it normally
No, you have the other girls who are telling you the actual meaning behind it and just you getting offended... Again.
While irony exist, they know they don't have to use irony every time.
Everyone.
Knows that.
You're assuming i'm offended again cool.
Actually get the meaning of it. People just take it for granted
Sorry, you're not offended.
You're defensive.
And also can't you see your also being defensive to what i said
You keep asking for an explanation and I'm giving you one. I don't have to defend anyone, especially over something as trivial and meaningless as the internet formed linguistical term "nice guy"
Also denying that it can be offensive? Yes i know that long ago i think you still don't get the point of my take. But why can't you just say it as is? Why is that even a hard thing to do?
You're defending because of the terms i gave their because you always want to call it "nice"
It's the irony.
Using a harmless word ironically is the antithesis of offensive.
Normally. I bet you don't know that there are people who don't mean it as ironically anymore. This mytake is a response to those people who got mislead and brainwashed by the irony.
"I use Nice Guy as an ironic term.
I didn't know people used it sincerely."
By the way those girls who disagrees with me are probably those who who don't use it ironically but that is what they actually mean. By the way that wasn't even i respond to you but you know someone here commented on your opinion and i'm responding to her but you continue it
"Probably"
What specifically makes you think that, besides the abundance of "nice girls" on this site?
So you use nice guy as an ironic term and i hope you don't use it normally. And for your information people use it sincerely
Nice people who don't just don't want to be assumed as evil for trying to help told me. And they are actually nice people because i've known them for so long.
And i also feel the satisfaction of helping other people and i know that is a nice thing to do but i don't want motives. People just assumes i want motives.
I use it sincerely (as in, the dictionary definition) when it's people that aren't aware of the buzz term.
When it's people that are aware, or are more likely to be aware, I will use the recent term.
At least but i still things that shouldn't really exist. They should be called as is. I'm not the only one with that experience but i know there are guys who act like assholes out there. They don't want to be called nice guys. I tried acting like an asshole because of that.
I know i cannot change the world alone because it takes more people like me to speak up
... It's not our behavior that needs to change.
That applies with bad guys as well being described as nice and caring guys. It can make some guys literally be bad. Or they can just say they like bad guys without explaining it.
Then it's the world then. I find a lost my faith in humanity.
Or... It could mean men who change themselves based on single women projecting irrational sexual frustration are wasting their time.
Yep that causes that. I'm even clueless about that one. Whats next? Hi means rape?
No. Hi means hi. And the only way you can avoid worrying about that is realizing it most likely does not apply to you.
Of course i know that will not apply to me. But i still know that happens somewhere in this world
And that's where it matters. Fortunately that's a loud minority atm.
Which is what the term nice guys used to be
So is incel culture though, which is why the term exists.
Well that is still a minority just like people making fun of nice guys. They can at least called them by the name incles.
Nice Guys is an ironic term. It's not used to communicate that nice people are manipulative, it's a term for opportunistic incels.
Again i already told you i'm not confused by the context but i explain to you how that can mislead a lot of people.
What's with guys and their " nice guy " post? I saw twice a day lol
Half of the nice guys threads are made by chicks.
That's none of your business. If you don't like it then why are you here? I have a simple solution for you. You can leave now thank you
By the way. Where's that other "nice guy" post you're talking about?
https://www.girlsaskguys.com/search?q=nice+guys
@DDpsy She said twice a day. I don't think those posts were made a day before.
To be fair I made a nice guy myTake, but it was also about nice girls. I prefer to call them "nice kin"
"Nice guys" are as manipulative as they come
You 👏went👏off👏!
You're featured! 😄😊
I knew it would be because I knew people be triggered with this post lol
i will stop doing this
No, these are "Nice Guys TM"
I call them the 'so-called' nice guys! XD
That would be crossing the line if we have our own terms for women because that is sexism right?
It only refers to one type of guy, who already called themselves good guys.
But we get called sluts and hoes up one side and down the other. So, suck it up cupcake.
What makes you think I get all salty because of this that I need to suck it up? Ok the meaning of sluts are sluts, the meaning of hoes are hoes or etc. Criminals who claims to be innocent which is pretty common aren't called "innocent". Why is that?
And you advised calling a man a cunt.
A man is not a cunt.
A cunt literally means "women's genitalia".
A person is not a cunt. How would any of us understand if you used a word for women's genitalia?
Can't you find another word?
Oh and why are you comparing an adjective to a noun? Cunt can't be an adjective unless you make a term for it but as for "nice guys", that already has it's original ideology as an adjective. What's with that comparison?
Because cunts are assholes, that means cunts don't exist? It is there as a noun for your info.
Also dick is also an insult. I don't care because dick isn't an adjective to begin with until people make it one.
But, it doesn't literally mean asshole.
You're the one all hung up the true meaning of words - as you're the least bit confused by what we're saying.
www.google.com/search Is it because I'm living in a real world?
And feminists did not create this term. Women, especially with so many men on the internet describing themselves as nice guys, and even some other men started talking about it and the concept emerged. Not all of those would be feminists. Sure, feminists do discuss it, write articles, and whatnot.
"And feminists did not create this term." There are plenty of girls who don't claim themselves to be but they still act like one. Actions speaks louder than words and we don't have to call them "Not feminists"
Oh, well, I agree with you there. Some people like you have so vilified the word feminist and repeating so many false narratives about the movement and the people in general that people who do believe in equality for women and/or women's rights in some context will not call themselves feminists. You're one of the ones making people believe that feminist doesn't mean what it literally means.
In the end Aiko, you can kvetch and kvel. That's your right.
But it will never not be our right to frame our own narrative. It doesn't require your agreement.
There goes that new argument saying feminism isn't about equality. I can explain it if you want to.
You implied feminism was essentially man hating. It isn't. I barely know any feminists at all that actually hate men or want men's lives to be made worse than ours, and most of that is just a revenge fantasy in essence. Feminists are only expressing anger at certain things we have observed about how we are treated, and we are treated those ways by men and other women.
You don't expose yourself to the real world of feminist thought and activism to know fuck all of the truth.
I support equality and that's precisely why I'm not a feminist. I'm getting really sick of this "feminism is about equality" argument. You can't claim to be a movement for equality when your movement is exclusively concerned about the issues facing one gender to the complete exclusion of the issues faced by the other. You also can't claim to be a movement for equality when your movement has a history of actively fighting against shared custody in the presumption of innocence promotes the Duluth model which assumes men are primary aggressors in cases of domestic violence despite evidence showing that women are just as abusive if not more and protesting disrupted conferences about the disproportionate rates of male homelessness and suicide.
And you can't claim to be a movement for equality when your movement is entirely predicated upon the notion that the inequalities exist between the genders are entirely slanted in favor of men thus necessitating the denial of inequalities faced by men and boys such as the high suicide, homelessness, highschool dropouts, criminal victimization in workplace fatalities infanticide and so on. "If you believe in equality then you're a feminist" Fuck off. This is like when furries say "You like Bugs Bunny? You think Chewbacca is pretty cool? Well guess what? You're one of us" Just stop alright. Nobody's falling for it. Except for biased people ofcourse. Let me ask you something. Do you like dogs? And do you know who else like dogs? Hitler! I guess you're a Nazi now. Isn't logic fun?
by the way I had that in my word pad long ago and I just have to copy paste that just in case of people like you.
We don't believe they are all slanted toward men.
But men are the dominant class none-the-less.
We also see that men have some significant issues they face, would love to see you making progress, and many of us would help you and some already are.
Because that doesn't really make you a feminist if you believe in equality because the term feminism focuses on the world female. If you say feminism is equality, masculism = injustice? I don't really think that is fair and equality
Feminism is a female centered movement to achieve equality, and liberate us from oppression.
It's not female supremacy. It's not about hating men. It's not about making men suffer.
You may find some discourse about those things, but it far from defines the movement.
But I heard a comment supporting male supremacy right up in this very post. And the narrative of your whole ilk is entirely about making women suffer, and extreme hatred of women.
I know quite well that most men in my life are not engaged in all that garbage.
Your hateful narrative isn't better than any hateful narrative there might be among women.
Are you just trying to dismiss argument by calling me hateful? When is it that females are still oppressed this days? it's not about hating men or anything just because you said so like that's how the world works.
Why not? You dismiss women for being hateful.
Did i say women? I'm saying feminists not women. Big difference.
Other than that i had claims to back it up instead of just let it out there
https://www.usatoday.com/
www.weforum.org/.../charts-gender-inequality-women-deliver
www.marieclaire.com/.../
www.pewresearch.org/.../
www.theguardian.com/.../the-age-of-patriarchy-how-an-unfashionable-idea-became-a-rallying-cry-for-feminism-today
There's your "lists". Knock yourself out.
Ok while I recognize men's privilege, what about women's privilege you've been ignoring and men's downside you're ignoring? Also I don't see any ratings with those.
Ok answer this question. Skip at 4:22 of those aren't facts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWluJxW4Es
Here's that men's privilage you also ordered en.wikipedia.org/.../Gender_differences_in_suicide
en.wikipedia.org/.../Homicide_statistics_by_gender
Another privilage you ordered
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_are_wonderful_effect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uccExOPMrI
Yes, men have a higher rate of successful suicide attempts, partially because of the prevalence of gun ownership, but women still attempt it more often. Men are also less likely to seek treatment for mental illness because it's considered weak.
I encourage men all the time to consider mental health care myself. I don't think it makes anyone weak. It's a pervasive attitude in society. This is one way it doesn't appear to be a benefit for men, and it isn't.
Does not erase all the other forms of privilege, however.
And feminists have been talking about how boys are socialized from childhood to not express emotions, be tough, etc. for decade upon decade. We have fathers, brothers, sons - and we have seen how strict gender norms can damage them. So, have you been joining us in these dialogues we have with men? Have you been engaged in any activism with us trying to get society to rethink gender norms?
Attempt it more often because you are taught to show feelings and you're not ignored when you make an attempt unlike men. No attempts were shown by men because if they do, "that's not an attempt. He just needs to suck it up" You know it is not a choice to be depressed right? It's not our choice but society is pushing us to be.
And don't women stay away from sensitive guys just because they show feelings? Uhhuh. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_are_wonderful_effect <-- That effect still stands and causes a lot of issues.
I love men who are comfortable with showing a full range of emotion. I'm sorry men are socialized to be too stoic.
That doesn't change society just because you do. It takes majority of people to change that. And there you are still thinking we're living in a patriarchal world.
Yes, it does take a lot of people to change that. It's been a cause many people have gotten behind for decades. I think takes time.
That some unfortunate things happen in the lives of men doesn't mean an essential cultural system doesn't exist. It's not an all or nothing situation.
Ok and you still continue advocating for women's rights when men don't even have to advocate for theirs? We don't wanna trigger more feminists for advocating for more.
Good take
Awesome take
Stop caring about lables...
I don't care about labels but i do care about the actual ideology the dictionary has to give
It would be a good idea to tell that to girls who represents themselves as egalitarians claiming to be a feminist.
Nice take
True
I agree