Stop calling manipulative guys "nice guys"

[Aiko_E_Lara]

A little trigger warning. Talking about some feminists and their notions and ideologies about men here so it's not my problem you choose to read this take and heat up an irrelevant argument while getting offended.

无论如何...

This take is made for some people specially feminists destroying the ideology of a nice guy as if nice guys don't really exist and as if guys aren't exactly nice. Here's the real meaning of nice. Pleasant, agreeable and satisfactory are synonyms of nice and that's what the dictionary clearly said and said nothing about being manipulative or assholes.

But nice guys manipulate girls by being nice.

Why nice guys? I only keep hearing about nice guys but what about nice girls? I guess that also means nice girls manipulate guys by being nice. Oh wait... Because of the notion that guys can't be manipulated because in this world, men can never be victims of manipulation and we're still living in a patriarchal world that sexism only applies to women according to SJW feminists even tho we're living in 2019 for Pete's sake. And manipulating, when was that a nice thing to do? You can call him a manipulative cunt, assholes, fake guys, creeps or whatever. There are other terms out there for that but never nice. They're evil and pathetic.

But being nice is a form of manipulation.

Being nice is a natural thing. Even animals have kindness and that applies for both genders not just for males only. Everyone has feelings. Some people are just too sensitive in nature that they are so nice, they don't know how to say no and can get manipulated so easily. More like being nice can get you manipulated really easy rather than being the manipulator yourself.

Sorry for the water marks. Can't find a better photo.

Being nice...

You know there's a big difference between being nice and acting nice. Right? It's not the guy's fault he's born nice and born with feelings and empathy to others. Motives you say? Welp... A person who's born sensitive doesn't have the motive of trying to be famous or getting something in return by being nice but they want the feeling of satisfaction. That's the reward they get from themselves not form people but for people acting nice, I think you already get the point but I'm still gonna explain anyways. People who act nice want to be recognized, rewarded or (and) to control who they wanna control. People who are born nice just have to be strong that's all. That doesn't mean they're asshole if they got strong.

With that being said, here's a cute pic I found to make you feel better.

~Peace out~

[Anonymous]

It's sad knowing that I just can't be my natural self anymore because people would think I'm manipulative. This myTake is gold for explaining the difference. I help people when I can, where I can. I like to genuinely appreciate things that deserve appreciation. Now it seems I can't do any of it because people assume that I expect something in return and that me being nice is an act.

I guess I should start preparing to move away from society and live on a lonely mountain like a hermit then. 😔

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I know double standard sucks and some guys just choose to be an asshole than to be called evil but you know you can change the view of society by yourself so that is why while being sensitive, you also need to be strong as well. Strong enough to build a wall for yourself and to fit with people

[Redemerald]

I like nice guys, it restores my faith in humanity and doesn't make me feel like all men are bad...
When I use the term nice guy I am referring to someone who I think is genuine and actually cares about other people

But there are guys I have come across who fake being the "nice guy" and are only nice to certain people to either "look good" or receive attention from women. These are the type of guys who will be super sweet to the girl they are on a date with but then yell at the waiter or they will do everything a girl wants from them until they know they can sleep with her or something like that and then after that they can become rude/act like they don't even know the person anymore
there was one guy who was extremely nice to me when he had a crush on me and used to do all types of favors for me but then after a while when he started liking another girl he started being really nice to her and mean to me.. If he was a genuine nice person he would have been nice to both of us but only pursued one girl...

anyways I feel like genuine Nice Guys still exist and I think that's Awesome!

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I think this can help you out Sensitive Doesn't Always Mean Weak ↗

[Opinion Owner]

It does help in many ways. The thing is, I know sensitive doesn't mean weak. The problem is the society not understanding that part of a person's nature. That's why I like this myTake. I know what to explain to people but not how to do it. So you have my respect for trying to clear up the differences.

I can't blame people for not being able to differentiate between nice guys and asshats acting like nice guys. Some asshats are pretty good at acting nice and it's only after they stop acting that people get to know their true nature. The real nice guys are trapped in that way. People have started seeing them as the asshats who just haven't ditched the act yet.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That's why be strong enough to make them understand and don't take their criticisms too personally.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Or you can just stop minding them and carry on with your life. You can help anyone anytime but you can move on if they don't accept your offer. It's their lost not yours

[JDavid25]

This is a great take.. The nice guy describes me exactly.. I get tired of people usin "nice guy" synonymous wit manipulative.. I think if you pay attention closely, you can tell the difference.. Smh..

[latinabutterfly96]

Yea and the worst part is that there’s not a lot of awareness about males getting into the nice girl’s trap either. I mean she is literally acting all innocent and sweet but then fucks him up. 😒

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Actually there are awareness about it but society chooses to ignore it because women are wonderful according to them. When women are nice, they are nice but when men are nice, they are evil.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That "women are wonderful" effect is still in society tho.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

naaaaiillleedd iiiiiit. If it's ok with you, I have a severe bro crush rn. lol.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Uhh I'm straight. But that's fine i guess...

[errorgoodnameunfound]

Don't worry about that dude. It's a figure of speech. I'm pan sexual (similar to bi) but straight in many ways. I don't say bro crush to random people as a literal thing, it's more so to show solidarity among men against certain BS women make. Sometimes seemingly acting gay can be a middle finger to the types of people we both hate whether we actually are or not. I wasn't born gay, but I now I am open to it cause girls are so stupid sometimes that men seem like a better option for a life partner.

[latinabutterfly96]

^ The thing is, you don’t seem that reasonable. And not too smart, since you just hated on all women in a post where a female is actually defending you. You sound pretty hurt.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

*eyeroll* damn right on point as I predicted every time. I KNEW some woman at some point would paint me negatively at some point for saying what I do, as if it'll intimidate me into changing my mind. Cause assuming I'm not smart since I have a different opinion scares me. *shudder* Oh no. So scared. Better run... aaaaaaah... when I said "girls are so stupid sometimes that men seem like a better option for a life partner." I wasn't referring to you. I know you were agreeing with what we said. Perhaps it's a reason I'm one of the guys that upvoted you in the first place?

[latinabutterfly96]

You literally upvoted me right after you replied to my comment...
Either way that’s not my point. I’m saying that you are in fact generalizing females, but you don’t want females to generalize you. I stick up for both genders, I’m not gonna sit here and take your BS.

Have a good night

[errorgoodnameunfound]

No, I took away and added the upvote I gave you before to see whether I had or had not given it. And I did. Don't try to flip this! Girls generalize guys using the "nice guy" phrasing so we will generalize you all as well. It's called equality. REAL equality. Do you not want that? Don't be a coward and run away from this. Idgaf if you are a woman. Sit here and talk like a grownup or you're a childish worthless wussy in my book, same as if a man had run away. The fact that you are a woman doesn't matter to me. "woMAN" up!

[latinabutterfly96]

I can’t fucking take you seriously anymore. Lmao

[latinabutterfly96]

You’re doing the thing you claimed you weren’t doing.

🤦‍♀️ this is why some women lose interest in taking some men seriously. Yes, some. I didn’t generalize. Cheers.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

You only dont take me seriously bc you dont agree with me. You and many women think getting all condecending and mocking immaturely will give an automatic win. Nope. Not how this man plays. If something sounds generalizing but is obviously not meant to be, being a fucking woman doesn't excuse not using your brain. Though considering your incapability to hear anything but yourself perhaps you are just a walking talking pair of boobs and vagina andnot much else?

[latinabutterfly96]

Careful, you might go crazy with your contradictory thought process.

“If something sounds generalizing but is obviously not meant to be...” huh? You just made a big assumption in that entire response. Did you notice that? You were claiming something I wasn’t on the basis that I’m a woman. And then you claimed you weren’t generalizing. Very interesting.

Let me help you understand your own words.

“I KNEW some woman at some point would...”

You expected a woman would do XYZ, on the basis of what? Stereotype. Generalization.

“It’s more so to show solidarity among men against certain BS women make... girls are so stupid sometimes.”

And then you denied doing such thing? Seriously, do I need to advise you to be informed about what things mean before you say or write something?

[errorgoodnameunfound]

I think at this point you and "editors" like millie are just troll farm asshats and not legit users. How much the kremlin pay ya for this per hour? They hiring? Cause it sure sounds fun. Ya can't come to me claiming my words don't make sense when you literally started with
"^ The thing is, you don’t seem that reasonable. And not too smart, since you just hated on all women in a post where a female is actually defending you. You sound pretty hurt."

1. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm not reasonable.
2. Lady, I literally had at least a 3/4 chance of being born a woman given I am the only brother with 3 sisters and 2 half sisters. Besides that, I was that one guy who watched Full House and Secret Life instead of Yu-Gi-Oh cause my sisters ruled the TV pretty well. Put that with the fact our mom raised us in a very sheltered, feminine way, my school classes up to 5th grade was majority girls cause the school started as a girls only academy, and now I do a side job once in a while as a babysitter for both a little girl and boy... yah pretty sure I'm not a serious woman hater even if I wanted to be, given those facts being pretty sure that deep in the black hole where my heart once was, there's a likely pink light shining a quite strong feminine side. How tf would I survive until now if I was this so called "women hater"? Seriously? Perhaps I challenge and act harsher towards women because that's real care and not just the bare minimum to get inside their pants? You do realize I am OK being single forever or in a gay relationship right? I don't see having a girlfriend or wife as mandatory for happiness and fulfillment. Problem?
3. Kinda a bit sadistic to use "hurt" as a derogatory term given how many people out there somewhere, men or women, actually are hurt and are staring at pills or a gun barrel as we speak. I don't like to generalize women, but being around them so much, I'm saddened by how sadistic they can be at times and you helped show that.

[MlleCake]

@errorgoodnameunfound It's not Millie. Its Mlle which is short for mademoiselle.

Look, there's pretty much nothing else to say to you, @Aiko_E_Lara and @BigJake. You're all hopelessly mired in a bunch of true nonsense, which bias you against any facts we could show you.

Have your sad lives if you want them.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake I have nothing to do with how he generalized and what did I do to get you all butthurt that you feel the need to say "Have your sad lives if you want them."? Is it because of the facts I presented?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake I made a say to lots of your responses and she has nothing to do with it. Why are you saying it here? You trying to drag her into this?

[WhatTheHellAmy2]

I agree. There’s a big difference.

One cannot be nice in order to get something in return.

You are nice when you expect nothing from those who you help.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Thanks. I hope you understand that the term nice guy meaning manipulative can be misleading to some people that they assume guys who are nice are just diabolical. It sucks feeling that way. People be like "oh my just suck it up" like they don't wanna listen to reasons. Good you don't have ego and know how to respect instead of teaching everyone to tolerate because "the world is fucked up, get over it"

[WhatTheHellAmy2]

I understand the difference. Very good job there.
I liked your MyTake

[WhatTheHellAmy2]

Thank you so much!

[TinaEl]

Some people are nice. Some people fake being nice so that they can benefit from it. It doesn't matter if they are guys or girls
Without wanting to justify those "feminists" (because these people aren't real feminists) I just belive that they have just met the wrong people in their lives and that they have bad experiences. Sometimes when i'm furstrated with a "nice" guy that thought does come to mind.
And the turth is that in this world there are more fake nice people than there are genuinely nice so its natural for people to be suspicious.
Personally, i can tell when a guy is genuinely nice by observing how he treats others. This guy was very nice to me because he wanted to date me or whatever but he was so snobbish to all the other girls he wasn't interested in.
But i've also met some really nice guys, who not only treated me nicely, but also all the other people around him.
So, on one part i can see why some people are suspicious of nice guys but i think that generalizing this statement and shuting off every nice person we meet is very wrong.
And also these apply to both genders.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Then that's what needs to change. How they judge people but I guess no body is doing anything about it. I get called nice and I take that a compliment because nice means nice even tho I'm not calling myself that. Also as if nice girls are used often. It's like this. If girls are nice, they're nice but if guys are nice, they're not. You know it's just easy to say it applies for both genders but society actually has that psychology called "women are wonderful effect" making them more tolerant to women than men. Also when was the last time you saw a guy rejecting a girl because she's nice? We try to be the nice one when we reject because we're monsters for hurting their feelings. I know not all but that's just really common.

[AaronKrieger]

My god you have the sensitivity of a teenage girl and you overthink about it too much. It's a label that's commonly used for guys that are manipulative in summary. They say "Nice Guys" because it's ironic because the people they're talking about are not actually nice. No, this doesn't mean they're talking about all guys, but a selective group. That's why I don't get why you keep telling people this label is sexist. It isn't sexist. How? It's not assuming or insulting all males, but an ironic label that's means a guy or a certain group of guys that's passive aggressive and manipulative thus why it's not sexist. I don't get why you have such a huge issue with this label. Usually if a girl uses it it's obvious when she's using it ironically or the original term. Here's some examples or what I mean.
The ironic label:
"I dislike "Nice Guys." Or "He's one of those "Nice Guys."

Using the original term would be: "Yeah, he's a nice guy." Or "My friend is a quite a nice guy."
Now do see the difference? Yes, the original term generally would make sense and be easier but a lot of people are used to that term. If someone didn't know the term they could ask that person to clarify.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

What's wrong with speaking up? This doesn't affect you and that doesn't mean this shouldn't really affect anyone. It's those toxic guys like you who judges saying I'm like a sensitive teenage girl which takes advantage of real nice people that they don't wanna say anything. And what's wrong with teenage girls? They're so much better than toxic assholes. Also being ironic isn't necessary in any circumstances. Why would you go for the label he's calling himself instead of the actions which is louder than words? Some of those girls don't even have to be sarcastic anymore explaining what nice guys are and it's pretty misleading. They call bad guys sweet and caring. How is that? They're butchering what the dictionary has to say. i am stopping anyone from saying it normal that can mislead a lot of people until the idea of it change. There are plenty of other words out there and i'm only focusing at this and that doesn't really mean i stop people from changing every words meaning

[Aiko_E_Lara]

This is just like saying if guys aren't nice but if they are, they aren't and that's what clueless people who have no idea about it being used ironically think. When ever they see a guy being nice, they would assume he's acting and being an asshole because of the of "nice guys" being misinterpret. And how hard is it to call them as is? I have better terms said there. How hard is it to say those?

[AaronKrieger]

It is a label towards a specific group of guys like the label "fuck boy." There is no misinterpretation because of people using "Nice Guy" to describe manipulators, but the manipulators themselves making girls second guess a guys intentions. Most people don't use "Nice Guy" to describe someone like that anyway unless the whole alpha male and beta male epidemic is brought up. Otherwise most people don't use it. Now I didn't call you a teenager girl because you spoke up, but rather because you're getting pissed off of a term that doesn't hurt anyone else besides you. You're being overly emotional and you're over thinking it which is what most teenage girls do with things. Yes, calling a manipulator a manipulator is easier and that's why most people do, but even if someone uses the "Nice Guy" label you know what it means. Even if you don't you can ask them to clarify unless that's too much effort for you.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Before you accuse me of being emotional while i am being logical here as i explain to you that there is another meaning of nice guy. The only problem is that the quotation mark makes a small difference that people can misinterpret it easily and you are comparing fuck boys to nice guys. What is another meaning for fuck boy? None. Even if the manipulator itself are calling themselves nice guys, again action speaks louder than words in it would make more sense if you called them by how they act instead to call them by what they label themselves to be. There are many criminals who claim themselves to be innocent but nobody calls them innocent with a quotation mark. Well there are some people who do but you don't normally hear it.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

There are other people who agrees with me here that It can be offensive. I'm not saying that those people make me right but that just means there are people who at least agree with me. And before you say that they are a sensitive as teenagers, why don't you start with yourself?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

When is it that i'm using my feelings saying "that the hurts my feelings and i cannot explain it because that is just how i feel" like what teenagers usually say? When?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And didn't you know that accusing someone of being too overly emotional makes you the one who is being emotional about it because when you feel the need to say it you feel tense just because of what i just have to say?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You better off just tell people to fuck off right now and if they get offended and defend themselves or they explain why you are being offensive, all you just have to say is the act like teenagers just because that don't affect you like that's how the world works.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Or i have a better example for you. Let's say bowing for example which is an east Asian culture and you made fun of it. They got offended by it then all you have to say is the act like teenage girls who are overly emotional because for you it is nothing. That would actually make you the one acting like a teenage dropout with no respect now would it?

[AaronKrieger]

You got called overly emotional because you're getting pissed over the people describing manipulative people as "Nice Guys" yet whenever it's said you can tell there is some irony or context behind it. You're non-stop replying to people that explain why people say it and even if they minorly disagree. Also, the same thing can be said for why I said "teenage girl" not a teenager, but a "teenage girl." Thus your argument of "Oh he called me a teenage girl yet he's a teenager so he's just insulting himself!" doesn't work. Teenage girls are known or you could say the stereotype is that they're emotional. Another thing that you said that I found funny is the whole "you called me emotional so therefore you're emotional." That argument can work when the other person is being hypocritical, but I'm not. So far I haven't non-stopped argued over this silly topic that's about a slang with everyone that I disagree with nor am I pissed about it. The only logical thing I see you've only pointed out so far is that it'd be easier and more productive generally to call someone that's manipulative a manipulator so that there'd be no misinterpretation. That's why I said most people don't call manipulators "Nice Guys." All the rest I don't see it being logical. Anyway I'm done arguing over this not because you have "superior arguments" but rather that this likely is going to be left at a stalemate that will just waste both of our times with an unproductive result either way. I'm just going to assume you misinterpreted it yourself in some situation and it led to an awkward and confusing argument or conversation you had with someone else whether it was online or in real life and that's why you seem to care about this.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Where was a pissed over that? I just simply explain why is that being pissed? If you feel like i'm pissed, doesn't that make you the one who is pissed because of how i explained? Also when you going to be offensive to someone else and they get pissed, would you just simply called them overly emotional for being pissed? That's because that's a silly topic to get mad about. That's some lack of respect right there just saying and i'm not pissed. I'm not trash talking you're anything that you feel the need to call me beast and also just because i reply to everyone.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I'm not confused about the context but i can still explain why that's sexist. It may not affect you but it can affect anyone. Many people who say nice guys say it normally without context anymore that misinterprets lots of people into thinking that guys aren't nice but if they are, they aren't. That experience is common and that guy I selected MHO is relatable to other guys. That's why I encourage people to minimize using it instead they'll just have to say what those creeps are based on their actions instead of what they claim to be. I have terms better there. How hard is it not to use those?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You just going to call everyone overly emotional without even thinking if you offend them and they explain why they got offended do you? And for your information you are the only one who called me overly emotional for this of all my matured arguments here so look who has problems.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

CLAP CLAP CLAP!!! About time another guy made conversation about this! FINALLY! I literally have been saying this shit for YEARS! EVERY FUCKING TIME I say it both women and even MEN just get condescending and stupid towards me and then leave the conversation! I legit wrote a mytake saying the SAME thing and EVERY comment was some stupid shit like "well you must a "nice guy yourself hur hur hurrr." or " "nice guys" are *insert cliche shit here* blah blah blah I didn't read past the third sentence because your dribble was too long *condescending snob talk here* " I say the same shit dude! Dictionary terms need to be fuckin applied! NICE is NICE find another fuckin word and don't tarnish what the actual word means! NOT hard a concept to get! Fuck!

[_my_fukking_anarchy]

I'm not a feminist, but when I used to be one and often met up with other feminists (i was litteraly part of a "league" XD) they never talked about supposed "nice guys" being manipulative. They were all ecstatic when they would see a nice guy, they would be omg at least he's not a bad guy. I never heard of that whole thing, except for woman abusers who would act nice and then become abusive psychos. It's crazy how mobs of triggered blue haired tumblr keyboard warriors can take innocent things like being nice, and making it sexist and disgusting.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

Interesting... cause I was suspecting that the "nice guy" creators were "nice girls" themselves... perhaps it has some backing...

[ronaldo75]

I find it odd that there is this trend now of strawmanning "nice guys" into closet jerks, assholes, manipulators and abusers. This is further proof that women have a sort of genetic predisposition to admitting anything is their fault. They reject the good men, get hurt by the assholes, then when people tell them to date the nice guys - they redefine nice to mean a psychopathic manipulator.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It's not their fault they reject actual good men. It's their fault they go with the flow of what manipulators claim to be being "nice guys" which misleads lots of people these days when they mean it ironically.

[BigJake]

Good job explaining this. I think a lot of guys out there are really nice guys who aren't anything like this weird caricature feminists have created in their minds of these manipulative, scheming "nice guys." Never did understand where they came up with that. Also, thanks for pointing out the fact that girls try to manipulate guys constantly. It's never been a one-way street on that count.

[MlleCake]

Please don't misunderstand. We all know actual real nice guys, good men, mensches. There are incredible men everywhere.

This just isn't about them. And admittedly somewhat of a caricature, because we're condensing a big idea into two words.

It's not really meant to denigrate all men, or even these men, just identify the behavior. Just identify some common issues that appear frequently in our experiences.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake "We all" What do you mean all? Why are there women who go with the flow sticking with "nice guy" when talking about evil guys just because that's what those guys claim to be?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Don't tell me you're making your own code name again but this time you're gonna say all doesn't mean all. "We make code names whenever we want"

[BigJake]

@MlleCake There are obviously lots of manipulators among us, but I just don't understand how girls en masse have conflated niceness with being manipulative. Everyone manipulates. Guys especially tend to manipulate to get sex, but players manipulate a lot more to get sex than nice guys ever do. I guess girls just prefer players because they are somewhat transparent about the fact that they want sex and will push to get it. Something makes me feel that girls view that in a more favorable light because it's somewhat flattering to them personally.

[MlleCake]

Uh yeah. We do get to call things whatever we want. And honestly, it's written as "nice guys". It's literally quoting them. They made up the code name.

[MlleCake]

We don't conflate niceness with being manipulative.

You already know that though.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Because you're entitled to denying the fact that it's sexist to do that. Doesn't really mean you're free from consequences just because you have the "rights"

[BigJake]

@MlleCake Yes, you absolutely do conflate the two things. That's why you all operate under these misapprehensions. That is what the author is pointing out here. You should take the time to read his take thoroughly at some point.

[MlleCake]

Clearly we are not conflating the two things.

[BigJake]

@MlleCake Yes, you are. That is why you use the term "nice guy" incorrectly. What you really intend is "passive-aggressive manipulative guy." Those are two very different things.

[MlleCake]

Heterosexual men do not experience sexism.

Prejudice, anger, mistreatment, stereotyping? Yes.

But as the dominant class, you don't have the experience of sexism.

Piss, moan and snivel all you want.

Your narrative is a lie. An obfuscation. A diversionary tactic.

[MlleCake]

By "we all" I meant feminists, women, humans - unless it's someone has not met many men I guess.

[BigJake]

@MlleCake You don't get to tell heterosexual men what we do and don't experience because you are not one of us, thus you do not share our experiences. You can guess what it might be like to be one of us, but you really have no clue from the outside looking in. That is what we are trying to tell you here, especially the author of this take. To be blunt and perhaps a bit harsh, you have no idea what you are talking about. That is why you cling obstinately to these nonsensical terms you're tossing around. Men may have been bad to you in your life, but that does not make all men bad. That is a fallacy of reasoning, *your* fallacy of reasoning.

[MlleCake]

Oh, and good question about a woman going with the flow and sticking with someone who isn't a good person: Many reasons why it happens. May take a while to figure out what the real story is, may feel stuck, may kind of enjoy the pain, may have pretty big impediments to leaving like having kids together, etc. Maybe co-dependent, drugs and alcohol could be involved, maybe woman is depressed, has poor self esteem, mental illness.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but I think you get the idea. Should they get away from the guy? Yeah, probably. Generally we try to help each other cope with and get out of bad relationships, if we can.

[MlleCake]

@BigJake you're of the dominant class. You don't experience what we experience. It shouldn't be called the same thing.

[BigJake]

@MlleCake The the only "dominant class" in the US is the uppermost 1%. Most men work for what they earn, and live hand-to-mouth, for the most part. Nobody has handed any of the men in my family anything. We get taken advantage of by government and corporations just like everyone else in this country.

[MlleCake]

Not the "only" dominant class. In the question of gender classes, heterosexual men are the dominant class. In rich vs not-rich, rich is the dominant class.

And you don't have to tell me about the decline in the real wage since Reagan, and all our other well known declines in the economy. It's become ever more difficult for men and women to earn enough to have that middle class life of our parents generation. I don't deny your experience.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You still did not really get the claim i backed up for you saying that men are dominant. All you have been doing is denying it and you never even explain what makes as dominant nowadays. You're clearly just talking about your era.

[MlleCake]

Oh, I could run down a whole list. But you'll just tell me it's wrong. You deny almost all of it. I don't deny men have unique problems too. I want men to be liberated from the ways gender norms keep them from a full experience of life. I want non-rich men to be liberated from the ways their lives are devalued and made shorter.

everydayfeminism.com/.../

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Like really that's it? While we have our own privilege you don't think you don't have yours too that you still want to continue feminism? That is called being one sided

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Yeah just like the claims i gave you and you're just there to say it is wrong. Yours continuing feminism as if our privilege is so much better than yours

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I don't deny those privileges you give me but what about your privilege?

[MlleCake]

Oh, yeah. I have some privilege, sure. I don't believe I am entitled to it more than anyone else on Earth. I believe the best society is a just, equitable and fair society. I want all of us to be treated well and have well being.

[MlleCake]

But we still don't have it better than men, or even equal to men. Sweden and Iceland seem to be the most egalitarian countries at the moment.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Feeling the need to call yourself a feminist is not entitlement? www.google.com/search

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake And we still don't have it better than women so stop advocating for rights as if men have it rainbows and butterflies.

[MlleCake]

How is it entitlement to say I belong to a specific movement? Do you know what that even means?

Men have their own set of issues. You're right. And individual men certainly can suffer much worse than the women around them. But by many measures, women are still oppressed all over this planet.

www.humanrights.gov.au/.../face-facts-gender-equality-2018

www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/gender-equality/

www.gatesfoundation.org/.../Gender-Equality

www.summer.harvard.edu/.../gender-inequality-women-workplace

www.researchgate.net/.../What_are_your_views_about_gender_equality

[BigJake]

@MlleCake I don't care about women all over the planet. They don't care about me, so why should I care about them? If you want to waste your time worrying over people who don't even want your concern, go ahead. But don't expect anyone else to follow.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake I don't really have to give you multiple sources from websites specifically for feminists only but I only have to give you a claim with ratings and open discussion. They matter more than how many words you can say without anyone agreeing with you.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Let's just wait till this guy makes an open discussion about those just like what he did in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO9nUBazWEg&t=5s And just because those you presented article exist somewhere, it is only exposed to few people.

[Servus09]

Internet vs real life...
Internet: I'm bitter and argumentive.
Real life: I get along with everyone.

Nobody can really tell if a guy is nice or a jerk on the internet. So while I'm not a fan of putting nice guys down, I can see how using the label 'nice guy' might be interpreted as manipulative to others, especially when you are a self-proclaimed nice guy on the internet.

With that said, I would like to identify as a self-proclaimed nice guy. In my day-to-day life, I seek harmony with others and try to get along with everyone. People have told me (I shit you not) that I am a nice guy. Everyone who has said that to me in real life seemed to think they were giving me a compliment.

I should probably elaborate more but I gotta go. :(

[Aiko_E_Lara]

But you know action speaks louder than words even if the give themselves the label nice guys while being manipulative. You cannot call them nice for that but you can call them anything you. What do you even call people who has feelings for others? I guess you can call them bad guys and that's what girls want. Well think again and look at the dictionary. There's a specific meaning for bad and nice.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

There are some people like me who can spot the difference between active and being nice even online in a subjective way so it is hard to explain. People with no feelings can't understand just like explaining vision on blind people since birth.

[MaximisPryme]

I appreciate this take on this subject. Not all nice guys are manipulative, and not all manipulative guys are nice. Guys are not the only ones that are manipulative, as women can be JUST as manipulative, being a past victim of manipulation from the opposite sex.

This is a PRIME example of what true feminism is all about. It is about speaking and fixing the hierarchy gaps in society between the two sexes. Not generalising how the opposite sex is akin to one problem, saying that it is THEIR problem, and then victimise their own gender.

[AlienParasite]

I think the reason what this has happened is because there are creeps calling themselves nice guys. There are really nice guys for sure, but is funny also that there are "nice guys", always with quotations marks, they are not nice but would always claim they are. I guess this as if someone would tell you all the time they cook great and you discover they don't at all, their food is bland, however as fun you could start calling that person "master chef" 🤔

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Why would you go for the label he's calling himself instead of the actions which is louder than words? Some of those girls don't even have to be sarcastic anymore explaining what nice guys are and it's pretty misleading. They call bad guys sweet and caring. How is that? They're butchering what the dictionary has to say.

[Rambler221]

We put the quotation marks to be sarcastic. It’s actually more offensive that way.

[Anonymous]

Hmm, interesting. What about guys (not all guys) who put themselves down a lot. And are sensitive. Degrading every female on the planet cause they were rejected. And one nice girl who gives that guy a chance. The guy becomes manipulative to that girl and abuse her. Testing her to see if she still loves him. and when she leaves him from all that abuse. He cries and becomes the victim.

And pretends he’s a little hurt puppy to the next girl. Then down the road he hurts her too.

What is that called?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

There are better terms I said in my mytake. The only way you haven't seen them is that you didn't read anything which you should have. I bet you thought this is one of those shitty mytakes other people write to make themselves feel better.

[Opinion Owner]

Did I ask something, for you to own and become defensive? You’ve expressed your take. I asked a question not directed towards you.

No need to have perception of me, and get defensive.

If you don’t know the answer, okay fine.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

My mytake has answers you want to know. Why ask those when the answers are there? And how is that even defensive? I just have to assume you didn't read anything because I clearly give better terms there for you to know.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

"What is that called?" Do I have to rephrase it again? "You can call him a manipulative cunt, assholes, fake guys, creeps or whatever. There are other terms out there for that but never nice. They're evil and pathetic."

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Or you can call him fake nice guy. That would make more sense now wouldn't it?

[MlleCake]

Our term is clear to us, and now you know what we mean.

I'm pretty sure you already did.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake It's clear to you. Why would the world always be about you? Do we have to find a specific dictionary for you every time?

[MlleCake]

It isn't always about me. It isn't always about people who use this term. If you know me at all, you know I don't think that. Because no one thinks that.

But this particular thing is about us, and we get to frame our own discussion. There really shouldn't be anyone insulted by this except the guys it applies to. It's not about all men.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake "There really shouldn't be anyone insulted by this except the guys it applies to." Like lots of men show their feelings to society. There are people who agree with me here and that proves it. Only those people who are so comfortable with having that ideology just disagrees.

[MlleCake]

I'm not worried about who agrees.

The fundamental element of this whole post is that you think we shouldn't see what we see, or create our own narrative about it.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

No i'm not stopping anyone from seeing what they see. But i am stopping anyone from saying it normal that can mislead a lot of people until the idea of it change. There are plenty of other words out there and i'm only focusing at this and that doesn't really mean i stop people from changing every words meaning

[MlleCake]

Actually, you're not stopping anyone from saying anything.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

No i am not stopping you because I can't stop egotistic people who dont listen to reasons. You are basically rading every comments here dragging into this mess just because you're really want to call them nice guys instead of as is when those comments you are responding on are not even saying it is ok to call them nice guys but explaining why they are called such.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

What explaining to them why it is sexist you are just there justifying it's not well they didn't even have to say anything

[MlleCake]

Actually your reasons are all about you not understanding how phrases like this work in the English language. You're mostly a giant joke at this point.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Without understand why it's sexist as I explained a million times regardless of it being used ironically and you're throwing ad hominems again. You're a giant joke at this point.

[MlleCake]

That's not an ad hom. You keep expressing your confusion about a common convention in English.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake And that's not my confusion. That's how many people feel about it. Ok lets say for example. You made fun of a culture because you think it's fun and people got mad at it. All you have to say is they're confused like that's how the world works.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Just because it means nothing to you.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake I can also say. That's not confusion. You keep expressing ad hominems over logic.

[UmarSpiegal]

From what i've seen both genders are equally manipulative and are a bunch of assholes, however, some dudes although truly disgusting make good observations about women. For one, my douchebag bros tell me that girls say they want a kind man yet love to be mistreated in a relationship (most girls not all). Another is when women say they think all men should be liberal and hold lefty views then when a man does they ignore him, insult him, and basically as your stupid post implies they are "nice guys". So they don't actually care about girls? Some women think too highly of themselves. Some men as well, and that has to do with immaturity. Extremely unattractive.

[juan101]

yeah it's true
I treated women like shit for a time in my life

and they followed me around like puppies lol
and women wonder why I see them as retards :P

not my fault

[juan101]

@SooCGarrett

fake account shut up

[MlleCake]

Yes. No one is saying that women can't also be shitty sometimes.

This is just us talking about how some guys are.

[MarketData]

As much as I'd like to blame feminists fro everything, the real thing bringing the term "nice guy" into disrepute is the manipulative douchebags who use the term to describe themselves.

"But I'm a NICE GUY." said no nice guy, ever.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Actions speaks louder than words. Even if they claim to be a nice guy while being manipulative, there's not reason to call him nice. There are better terms I said there.

[thechesseman]

I'm an arrogant asshole.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@thechesseman I don't know you but you may be or not.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Technically women still go with the flow with it and continue calling them nice guy just because they said so and that ruins the ideology of it where is part of their fault. I've seen many criminals who claim to be innocent and they are never called innocent. Why is that?

[MlleCake]

We don't call them nice guys. We call them "nice guys". The quotation marks mean we're quoting them.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake That doesn't exactly change everything. Not everyone can see a quotation mark by saying it.

[MlleCake]

Correct, which is why we might say (air quotes) nice guy, or "nice guy" with a certain facial expression to indicate it's meant ironically. We might say so called "nice guy". Even nice guy tm.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Doesn't matter. That's still easily misleads some people specially guys. It's really easy for you to say because you don't know how we feel. Still here to bring awareness to that being sexist towards men.

[MlleCake]

It doesn't mislead anyone except perhaps people who cannot perceive the sarcasm, but we make it pretty obvious. But they will certainly understand it from the context.

Heterosexual men do not have the experience of sexism. That's a false narrative.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake What if I told you. Sarcasm isn't exactly necessary in any circumstances. Why bother?

[MlleCake]

I already know it isn't.

It's not for you to say about this situation.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And it is not for you to just say it normally

[MlleCake]

It's normal to use phrases ironically. Very normal. It happens all over the place in English.

But people create little phrases and slang alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the time.

Like Feminazi

That's slang.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Pretty normal indeed but you don't see that on formal interviews very often. I don't care about the other terms used ironically as much but you know that still can offend anyone. I kept saying that many times but you just wanna try to offend anyone by being ironic every time and specially you're talking about guys.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Just like how you're offended by feminazi or your fellow feminists and you want it to stop do you?

[MlleCake]

I'm kinda over it by now. But yeah, people can be offended. I'm not making you not say Feminazi. I can't remember the last time I even called it out. I am not saying you had no right to write your rant. I'm just disagreeing with you. And as I have said, it's not up to you what we say.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake That doesn't change that anyone are still offended by it just because you aren't. And I'm just disagreeing with what you say.

[MlleCake]

Uh, yeah. I kinda already knew that.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Oh I (or we) still have the rights to think anyone who say that.

[MlleCake]

What?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Oh dear. I said " I (or we) still have the rights to think anyone who say that."
That = "nice guys"

[MlleCake]

Still not a grammatically correct sentence. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

But yeah, you have the right to think anything you want.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake It's an eye for an eye. We still think its sexist even if you don't care. If you don't wanna be called that then use that. Say it as is.

[MlleCake]

We're sexist for quoting them directly? Whatever kid.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Whatever indeed. That's for your information.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That guy I selected MHO has an experience which is common. Not sexist indeed and you wonder why men's suicide rate is higher than women's

[capncool]

The label comes from a certain breed of guys who always pull the "I'm a nice guy why won't women date me?" card. They usually tend to be doormats who are painstakingly nice because they don't really know any other way to be. They're considered manipulative because they're conditioned to believe that being nice will get them "good boy points" and they'll be rewarded with a favourable outcome, and they often show their "not nice" side when things don't go their way. The real problem here is most of these guys aren't self aware, they genuinely believe they're nice guys.

Oh, and "nice girls" are most definitely a thing too. For example, listen to any Taylor Swift song and you'll get an idea.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Criminals claiming they're not criminals are still called criminals because actions speaks louder than words. I say it's stupid to go by the label they claim which what they do is the exact opposite.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

dude, I agree taylor swift may be a "nice girl" but I have never ever ever ever EVER heard the term "nice girl" EVER be applied to ANYONE. Period. Yet, I hear "nice guy" be applied EVERYWHERE. Why can we not use the goddam dictionary and apply the correct term so that way he actual word is not suddenly bad when it's supposed to be good? Makes ZERO sense!

[MlleCake]

@errorgoodnameunfound it's a word used ironically. A very common occurrence in the English language.

That's just the breaks.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Which no body really have to. Things not supposed to be taken literally aren't for everybody.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake You women have your own meanings always asking questions about what guys normally do even if what they do aren't gendered. "He looked at me what does that mean?" "He said hi to me what does he mean?" <-- "Means you're a potato" Not supposed to be taken literally right?

[MlleCake]

We're just quoting them.

And I am certain that when people see we are indicating "nice guy" - by verbal/facial/context cue - they aren't the lest bit confused. You aren't.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Again I said this in another comment. It doesn't matter because that's not how nice words. It maybe obvious for you but not everyone are just like you. The meaning of nice still remains in the dictionary and that doesn't only describes men but even things too you know.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake It's basically like it's ok for people like you to don't describe men sincerely and it became normal.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

We can't always be sarcastic in any circumstances

[MlleCake]

Not sure what you're saying exactly. We are describing this particular phenomena sincerely. Yeah, I agree, sarcasm is not always a good idea.

But it's not really up to you in this case. You don't have to use the term.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake I don't have to use the term but I say it like how it really means. The problem is that because of that brain wash, people think the opposite even if I mean what I say. I'm just here to bring awareness to it and not everyone has your brain.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@MlleCake this "phenomena" has like 10k other words that it can use. Why take a word that is supposed to be good and pure and completely ruin it? If it continues, then don't whine when all guys become super mean and NOBODY is nice anymore. That seems to be the goal and it's working pretty well so far isn't it?

[MlleCake]

@errorgoodnameunfound We took the term that the men used themselves, and all we are saying is some men who claim to be nice turn out not to be. Whenever you want to indicate in the English language that something is labeled a certain way, but not something you are claiming is or isn't true yourself as the writer or speaker, you indicate the term in quotation marks. The variations on that are pretty much just different ways of expressing that.

It's a perfectly mundane thing in our language.

You are of the dominant class. You don't get to tell us how to discuss our own experiences.

[MlleCake]

@Aiko no one is saying the opposite. You can clearly see there is a shade of meaning to what is being said.

You're not confused.

Just butthurt.

Sorry snowflake.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Who are you calling snowflake? You know calling someone snowflake over an explanation makes you the snowflake right? That means you think I'm mad that you feel the need to call me "butthurt" because you're just tensed and that makes you butthurt. If you don't believe me saying the opposite of nice is evil then I can prove it. www.google.com/search

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake So stop making assumptions otherwise you're butthurt

[MlleCake]

I'm not at all butthurt. I'm not assuming anything. You have clearly demonstrated your strange logic.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And if you're not butt hurt you wouldn't have called me butt hurt. I can also say your logic is strange too. We can just all through it out there just because we can and we don't have to explain it.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@MlleCake dominent class? Lol how? Cause I was born with a penis? The very fact that you are on here instead of in the kitchen quietly making a sammich or in some sweat shop somewhere makes you quite dominent in many cases. Ill be the one to speak up and say women still have progress to make but at the very least there has been progress at all. Too bad the man in this conversation had to be the one to point this out. You lost this Millie. You got condecending both towards me and Aiko when all we wanted was conversaton. I can't beleive you are 46 either. Dont tell me you are a mom or wife. If so poor kids and likely poor screwed over husband. Half way to death and you're still act like Regina George. Geez. 40 or so more years to go. You want to die knowing at almost 50 you still acted like a Carmelita cakesniffer?

[MlleCake]

@errorgoodnameunfound Listen to all that pearl clutching.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@MlleCake

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@MlleCake listen to all the points youve made in comparison to my number. Lets see... 1... 2... Vs... like... 5? Hate to say perhaps women are insuperior to men especially in intellect, but you seriously make it hard to defend against it girly.

[MlleCake]

@errorgoodnameunfound See, that's what makes you "not nice". Hard to take you seriously at all when you denigrate women for being less intelligent.

But even if that was true, it still wouldn't mean we don't deserve to achieve some semblance of equality, and have our rights recognized and upheld.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@MlleCake No, it'd flat out make me not nice, no quotation BS. You think if we were face to face I wouldn't say basically the same shit? Boobs and vagina don't trip me up me like many guys. Now, metalheads, with their manly, viking like, long and magnificent hair... my gawd... my envy... oooh... gawd... the lush happiness it causes... ooooh... but no, boobs, and vagina don't suddenly turn me into melted butter to become a "friendly gentlemen suddenly" more than towards Joe McShmoe across the street. It's truly sad you can't see the errors. Just like my ex. Loved her thinking. Loved her feminist teachings. Loved her intelligence to a big degree. And I know about Lacy Green, Tumblr, SJW stuff, etc. only cause of her. But she argued the same stuff with me. Despite knowing women are just as capable as guys in every way, I fail to understand why the guys who know that basic fact struggle with women so much and so yes, guys get bitter and start assuming women as a whole must just be naturally stupid and greedy, which I really don't think is true, but so many women make it so goddam difficult to disprove on top of men making it as hard as it is. So go ahead. Date/marry/bang the broke idiots that only care about multiplying and you making them a sammich, abusing and raping you and other women behind your back as they please. I'll be busy in my civil union with my beautiful metal-head glorious haired husband and our adopted former refugee kids. Still going to speak up for your rights anyways and teach the kids too as well, cause it may not be the stereotype sjw way, but it's the just way. :)

[errorgoodnameunfound]

@MlleCake If you want rights so badly, stop smacking the faces of guys that do too!

[MLGbreezy]

I didn't even need to read the post to appreciate it good work I hate this cause there a huge double standard the woman love to place on guys they treat the bad boy types like they are saints or they are always just misunderstood but nice guys are always some hard entitled or manipulative or doormats and I'm sick and tired of hearing it I'm a nice guy and I'm not any of those names I'm just kind

[errorgoodnameunfound]

exactly how I feel too dude! why is it that bad boys can get exceptions cause perhaps they aren't too bad, yet guys that are nice MUST not actually be nice? Either way, we are bad somehow just for being guys, yet there is ZERO application like this towards women! Total BS!

[MLGbreezy]

Very true which is why I've just decided to change how I approach women in general cause dating for men really isn't fair at all women get all the advantage and don't even really show any appreciation for the effort that goes

[Gopnik]

the "nice guys" title was given to them because of their manipulative nature, pretending to be nice guys who are nice for no reason when the "nice guys" have the intention of trying to get with the girl but put the wrong intentions behind their actions for whatever reason and it shows.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I'm not confused why but that's still sexist. It may not affect you but it can affect anyone. Many people who say nice guys say it normally without context anymore that misinterprets lots of people into thinking that guys aren't nice but if they are, they aren't. That experience is common and that guy I selected MHO is relatable to other guys. That's why I encourage people to minimize using it instead they'll just have to say what those creeps are based on their actions instead of what they claim to be. I have terms better there. How hard is it not to use those?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And if you wonder why men's suicide rate is higher than women's, that's also why.

[Gopnik]

men's suicide rate isn't higher because of some stupid nice guy title.
it's higher because we do the more mentally heavy jobs like police officer, doctor, soldier, shit like that, it's also higher because we have less services available to help us with our problems when women have a lot more resources available to them.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

No i am not saying that is the main reason but what i am saying is that is still a cause of it. A cause not the cause.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I said that is also why. With all those reasons you give me, what i said is a plus

[Gopnik]

i don't think it's a big reason, if you can't take a title because you're too weak minded you shouldn't associate yourself with the title, that really is not a valid argument because you choose yourself to be offended by it or not.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Or i am not too weak to say something and speak up. I can still speak up the truth about what can happen if people use it normally. That is the reason why people don't speak up anymore is because they get called week. Also because i'm a guy saying it. I never said it is a big reason either but i still said it is a reason. It being a reason still stands.

[Gopnik]

you're weak in general if you let words like that hurt you.

[Gopnik]

it's not the fact you're a guy saying it, it's the fact you fail to recognize that those words don't fucking matter.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

so what about nice girls? I know some people still use it ironic but it is not as commonly used as nice guys that it can be misinterpreted easily.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Ok lets say for example someone is being racist and that offend people. They speak up and you call them weak for speaking up? Cool thats now how the world works.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Just because that don't offend you. I'm not trash talking anyone so there is no need for you to be weak and use that language.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Thats what people with fragile ego do right? They start swearing.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

While i know you so so important to tolerate people like those, it is also important to respect

[Gopnik]

swearing does not equal fragility or a fragile ego, nor does it go the other way around.
you still choose to be offended by something or not so don't push this on anyone else.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Well it does because it is unnecessary and people do it to express anger or any feelings. You can just tell people to fuck off ok? And if they get pissed, you can just tell them weak.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Which I'm not saying I would be. I would just return the favor.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

To be offended by something is not a choice for your information. Lets say if you made fun of a culture and they got offended, is that their choice even if you're already explained why?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

If people tell them not to choose to be offended, they rather choose not to show it. If you look at this poll, respect vs tolerant, which is more important? Do you prefer people to tolerate or to respect? ↗

[Aiko_E_Lara]

If you still don't get it, I can't 100% explain what people feels because everyone is different and it's just like explaining what vision is to blind people. That makes them more natural and realistic because people have feelings and so does animals. Again they don't choose to be offended, they choose not to show it just like those guys and some girls who agreed with me here because of insensitive people who don't respect which makes them toxic.

[thegirlfromthething]

Feminists call manipulative guys “nice guys” because that’s what they call themselves. They think they’re actually really nice and deserve sex and female attention even though they’re being manipulative. It’s like a code word and it’s pretty easy to know when someone is talking about a “nice guy” vs an actual nice guy based on context.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

So do they go for the words instead of the action? Shows how smart they are.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You know what, those man haters who don't claim to be a feminist are still called one even if they don't claim to be. Those criminals even if they don't claim they are are still called criminals because of their actions. Action speaks louder than words. We can easily say nice girls no problem but nice guys, people assumes and that whole ideology just misleads people. As you read my mytake, you can see better terms for those guys.

[thegirlfromthething]

Not everything has to be literal for people to get it. Any intelligent person can do their own research and understand ”nice guy” vs nice guy, but I guess you probably should use a term that’s easier to understand when you’re specifically talking to a novice or someone who’s just not that bright.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I know not everything has to be literal but there is no reason to make the code name just because they say so. Codenames aren't for everyone and also someone actually meant nice guy, there always people who don't take that seriously as if nice guys don't exist. A criminal which is pretty common who claims to be innocent, why aren't they called "innocent"? Oh yeah because they don't want the ideology of innocent as if people aren't really innocent but that applies to all people that is why but for nice guys, that usually only applies for guys but what about nice girls? People can easily say nice girls. Nice girls means they're nice while nice guys means they're evil according to some people which needs to stop.

[MlleCake]

Uh, actually - yeah we get to make the code name whatever we want.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake And that's not sexist when you call evil nice guys? Cool. "This take is made for some people specially feminists destroying the ideology of a nice guy as if nice guys don't really exist and as if guys aren't exactly nice. Here's the real meaning of nice. Pleasant, agreeable and satisfactory are synonyms of nice and that's what the dictionary clearly said and said nothing about being manipulative or assholes."

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Table of contents pocket edition. All subjective notions are there.

[thegirlfromthething]

You brought up the dictionary definitions in your original post, which are fine, but words can and have changed from their original meaning. A nice guy can adhere to the dictionary definition of nice, or he can be the other kind of “nice”. It’s unreasonable to expect words to mean the same things as they did decades ago and it’s too late to erase the alternative definition of nice or stop people from associating it with fake “nice guys”. The best we can do is educate people so they know the difference based on context- it’s seriously not that complicated. Anyone over the age of 12 should be able to figure it out.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Sure it is only changed when it comes to nice guys specifically. I never heard of manipulative women being called nice girls. Those guys you are talking about aren't nice. When was manipulating nice? Nice itself isn't used for guys only but for many things and that's an adjective. What if you describe a guy as nice? That's sexist by the way for your information and people just needs to be aware of that.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Anyone who's over 12 can be brainwashed but I'll never teach my kids something wrong and ironic but the proper meaning.

[thegirlfromthething]

Manipulative women don’t need to pretend to be nice to get what they want from men- they use their sexuality or infantilize themselves, oftentimes. It’s fine if you like to know the basic definitions of things, but you and your children will be very poorly equipped for life in the 21st century if you can’t adapt to evolving definitions. Language will change without you and you’re going to have a hard time keeping up if you refuse to acknowledge that.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

The sexism still stands for that. What do you call a guy described as nice then? Same goes with objects.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I have to rephrase this "Being nice is a natural thing. Even animals have kindness and that applies for both genders not just for males only. Everyone has feelings. Some people are just too sensitive in nature that they are so nice, they don't know how to say no and can get manipulated so easily. More like being nice can get you manipulated really easy rather than being the manipulator yourself."

[Aiko_E_Lara]

See that's according to you. The meaning of something can't really change if it's specified to males only. Those are slangs and not official.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

"Manipulative women don’t need to pretend to be nice to get what they want from men" Or maybe they do and society is unaware of that. The reason why is because they don't really view women as manipulative because they all think that those women who acts nice are just innocent due to that "women are wonderful effect" psychology that society has.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

"you refuse to acknowledge that." Yeah I refuse and those other people who agree with me as well because that's not how the word "nice" works.

[thegirlfromthething]

Ok, so basically your two issues are that fake-nice, manipulative women aren’t called “nice girls” and there’s a new definition of nice because of manipulative “nice guys”.
If manipulative, fake-nice women constantly whined “But I’m such a nice girl! Why don’t guys want nice girls?”, then people would call them “nice girls” and they’d be included in the alternate definition of nice. “Nice guys” explicitly say they’re just so, so nice and carry on with fake-nice behavior while “nice girls” usually just pretend to be nice and don’t talk about it so much. Manipulative men are called “nice guys” because they talk and talk about how nice they are. If they weren’t constantly saying they’re nice, women would call them regular manipulative guys. If manipulative women constantly talked about how nice they are, men would call them “nice girls”.
Words are obviously no longer strictly used according to dictionary definitions and it’s silly to pretend that popular culture should have no bearing on their meaning. People come up with new phrases and slang in every era, so if enough people use a word according to a certain definition, the word does take on that definition whether it’s in the dictionary or not.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

What if i told you, being ironic everything isn't really necessary in any circumstances. Being sarcastic itself can offend anyone what is specially if you go with the flow just because of what manipulative guys say they are nice guys. It is just like saying "guys aren't nice but if they are, they aren't" some people use it sincerely nowadays because of the whole ironic thing. Misleads people into thinking that all guys who are actually nice are manipulative because it got so normal when people use it. I'm here speaking up and there are people who agreed with me here. The thing is that there are people who just don't really speak up because they are sensitive that society just take advantage of them.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I'm not against all the words changing but i am specifically about that. Again you don't call criminals who claims to be innocent "innocent". I've seen many girls out there who don't claim to be feminists but they act like one and nobody calls them "not feminists" normally.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

This is another one of those biases that women can't be those because they're innocent that society tolerates them way more than men. If we are not going to take nice seriously anymore then teachers shouldn't teach kids to be nice to each other anymore because that means be creeps to each other. Oh wait those are kids. What about men and what makes them any different? They are humans too. I do i have to repeat what does manipulative guys by ACTING nice is not a nice thing to do?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

The problem is that why can't people just say it as is instead of being sarcastic every time? Like that is a hard thing to do

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Those who you so called "nice guys" you might think who agree with me in this my take, i don't think anybody wants to be called creeps over being called nice. There are people who agree with me and before you say they are "nice guys tm" because i know this site has so many creeps, this my take is actually made against them and for people who are actually caring and sensitive and who are nice as in actually nice.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Even just saying nice guy tm or fake nice guys would make better sense instead of normally saying nice guy like what lots of girls use this days which is pretty sexism.

[MlleCake]

I think it's more to do with not carefully using quotation marks. Especially on the net, careful writing is not always a priority. Yet even when it's expressed incorrectly, you can still get the meaning from the context.

Your writing is not always perfect either. I've had to ask for clarity several times.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Again regardless of that, that still can mislead people if used normally without explaining to them. Someone got called a nice guy properly and some people assume "Nice guys" like how you use it. You're just blind

[MlleCake]

Context gives you the meaning. If we talk about a nice guy who is not nice, one may infer we mean "a guy who says he is nice, but isn't".

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Then you can say "a guy who says he is nice, but isn't" It would change the meaning of the context if it's used normally. You know people who get misinterpreted by it and refuse to learn the truth after being misinterpret? I don't blame them. It's because some people don't use it in a different context anymore. They mean nice guys (guys who are actually nice) as evil.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Just like what the anonymous guy opinion owner here have experienced who I selected the MHO. That is pretty common for your info

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Because of nice guys being used without context anymore meaning manipulative. I'm encouraging people to use that less.

[RACKnight]

I think there are ENTIRELY too many people that REALLY DO believe that 90 percent of guys out there are walking caricatures of some playboy creepazoid on Lifetime Movie Network. Folks... we gotta spend more time face to face and traveling nowadays... and we'd discover that's not true.

[RACKnight]

What you explained is what I repeatedly encountered and stated to Southerners about their so called "hospitality," which is so 1 dimensional and fake, it's beyond laughable. Tripping over your dick, rushing to give up your seat or open the door for a 5'6, 22 yr old bubble butt blonde, while ignoring the 48 yr old lady in her maid uniform who just got off a long shift and leaving her to stand up on the bus, doesn't make you "hospitable." It makes you a puss* hound-which doesn't make you any different from guys in Minnesota or Madagascar.

[Sevenpointfive]

yeah, there is definitely a difference between acting and being.

[Hurlyburly]

Oh "nice girls" (tm) does exist just aswell. Neither "nice guys" or "nice girls" means genuinely nice people though. It also doesn't mean that those wouldn't exist.

This video shows a few examples of the "nice girl" behavior :)

https://youtu.be/FVhG9cjJOks

[errorgoodnameunfound]

I never hear "nice girls" being used. Really i don't want it to be, as long as "nice guys" gets eliminated permanently at some point soon. Nice is nice. Not nice is not nice. There isn't a sudden magic change to the definition just because quotation marks were added with a sub reddit to go with it. Since when does sub reddits have more cred than a dictionary?

[coachTanthony]

Omg that video is hillarious... god bless Samantha!

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I never said they don't exist. I just said i never heard of it the reason why it is less popular is because society choose to ignore it more due to society being more tolerant to women than men. It is really easy to say nice girls without any problems but nice guys, often assumed as evil. Nice girls are usually nice girls to society but nice guys are usually not. Look at that double standards. That's why that ideology needs to stop as if nice guys don't really exist which is pretty sexist. You don't call a criminal innocent if they claim to be innocent. Why is that?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

by the way that's a sociopath in the video that's not a nice girl.

[Hurlyburly]

Of course she's not. But since she's refers to herself as nice (and probably really think she'd be a nice person) she's referred to as "nice girl".

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Then do not go with the flow. That would actually change the view of other people about actual nice girls. This take isn't only for nice guys but i have seen many girls talking about nice guys here saying they are manipulative not even putting quotation marks anymore. Even if it obviously in that they are talking about the real nice guys, that is still really misleading to a lot of people as if all nice guys are already manipulative

[Hurlyburly]

The point is though, that people who are actually nice usually do not need to refer to themself as such. If you are nice, people are going to notice it without you telling. Therefore, if someone calls himself a nice person chances are quite high that he/she is a "nice guy/girl" and not actually nice.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

So by that logic, if I call myself mean, chances are that I am not? If I say I have a red shirt, chances are its not true? Why does this ONLY apply to the word "nice"?

[Hurlyburly]

@errorgoodnameunfound if it would happen that often with other words, I'm sure that this would apply there as well yes.

[errorgoodnameunfound]

Well great. A lie. Cause ya know plenty of people claim to cook well. They dont. Stillnot a trend to call them "great cooks". Plenty of people claim they lack a soul. Then the next day help an elderly woman across the street. Called "soulless" ? NOPE. Plenty of people claim to be from the most superior country in the world. North Korea. Is calling NK "superior" a trend? NEVER. Oh here's a GOOD one. What about INSTAGRAM MODELS? Ya know the photoshopped and plastic surgery types? Are they called "pretty"? "Hot"? "Sexy"? NO NO AND NOOOO. We call them what they are. Ask ANY man and the opinion of them will ALWAYS be either "fake" "plastic" "stupid" and attention whores" ALL of which are blunt HONEST and matches the damn dictionary! And yet ALL of these things happen just as much as guys acting fake every moment every day every week every year, yet NONE use stupid condecending quotation marks. "Sexy" still means sexy. "Cute" still means cute. "Buff" still means buff. So WHY does nice not mean nice? And yes I didn't put quotation marks bc now suddenly it doesn't matter as its no longer an acceptable trait either way it seems. Being aggresive and mean is better. Cause that means honesty and hell yah good lookin and good in bed right? ... as long as you are mean and aggresive enough for a womans specific standards. Cause dare to be mean and aggresive but NOT for their sake and BOOM! Into the incel bitter forever alone chamber right? So mean and aggresive! Logic dictates you must be fake because its not for my sake! Ignored and blocked you angry nerdy basement troll! In with the other fake nice people bc I assume you are one of them and Im a woman so Im correct! How dare you be mean but not in the way women want it? Get a life loser looooool

[Anonymous]

I do have to wonder if girls recognize the idiocy of constantly trashing nice guys the way they do these days. It only hurts girls in the long run.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake There you go. Call them assholes! How hard is it not to do that?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake Ok you just prefer to be sexist that it. It's a fact as I already explained why.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake And also just because you prefer, that's not a logical reason to and that's subjective.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake And you're not a sexist and it's not for me to define according to you. People just get comfortable saying "nice guys" that they forget about the quotation marks anymore and again as if nice guys don't really exist because of the notion that guys aren't nice, if they are, they aren't and that really makes sense. You don't hear a guy say that every time because we know that would also offend women.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@MlleCake If they label themselves then why do you have to label with them instead of correcting them? If they don't listen who care? No body has to go with their labels.

[Opinion Owner]

@MlleCake

"We're not trashing nice guys. We're trashing assholes of a specific type."

Bullshit. This is just another example or your prolific dishonesty here at GAG.

[Opinion Owner]

@MlleCake It's you who doesn't get the point. The message you and other morons like you are sending is that nice guys are a bad thing, and jerks are the ones who are successful with women. I'm just not sure whether you're honest enough to recognize that.