lack of father figures - loss of training, and feminization of training (instead of hard, hands on work, it's soft work) Disconnection from nature - tell someone you cut up a fish or shot and slaughtered a deer for food and see reaction. feminization of boys in society (as noted elsewhere here) not enough strenous exercise and physical challenges that build character... men used to work hard outdoors, now we sit at desks and type. that used to be womens work! Society shifted - men's usage of power and force not accepted, it's language law that are preferred. Women gained power... they often screw themselves.
Solutions? Drop the excess fat - diet chg HIIT exercise Enroll boys in physical activities - good luck changing education, govt doesn't want macho, physical, high testosterone men outside of military. Turn off TV's and games. Keep men in kids lives, keep families together. Kill all the lawyers, or send them to mars... whatever - that's kinda manly isn't it? More bar fights!
It's impossible to answer the question to why men are different than before without mentioning women. Just like it's impossible to answer why women are different without mentioning men. Society changes, we change with it as well as it changes with us. We adapt to the changes of the other gender, as well as they adapt to us. If you tell women they gotta show they're as successful as men in their careers by the display of their income, this forces women to start paying for dates, which forces men to not want to pay for dates. If you shame a man for wanting to pay for the date, that man is gonna be reluctant to pay for dates with other women.
Male and female changes go hand in hand. I think some changes are for good, while others I don't like too much, but that's fine, because there's still a lot of people that fall under the category of what this post will call a "man", as well as the equivalent of the opposite gender, so if you want that type of people in your life, search for them.
Haha this is very cute. What happened to females wanting equal pay, equal say in society, etc... first point, most men are proud to be men, we work hard, take care of our responsibilities, handle our business and hardly take breaks (I’m talking for me and the people I know around me). A woman that expects to be taken care of is not a woman, she is a little spoiled brat that wants to be treated like a queen. Not going to happen. Second point, domestic violence is wrong. And I have stepped in, when a man was beating his woman. But there were also, 30 other girls in the group and maybe 12-15 men.. so where were the woman to step in.. it’s a human thing, not a sex or gender thing. And surprise, surprise. Not a woman brave enough to help de-escalate the situation. If another man was there that girl would have been fucked.. third point, I don’t fuck with woman that won’t carry there own weight, and some women are heavy as fuck! But a woman, that loves to go out and eat, and not pay some of her way, is a worthless woman. She won’t be able to offer me anything in a relationship but a warm pussy... and I can pretty much find that anywhere.. so show me you are a unique gem and be responsible for yourself or have the balls to show society.. “I’m a strong women, who has more to offer than just my pussy...”
First of all really well written. I agree with you completely , but " they " have destroyed the male gender , I was bought up with 3 Sisters who were all very strong , I was bought up to protect my women , to fight for there dignity , to be aware of danger , but to never ever " strike " a woman , for this is the action of a coward. To open the door for her , to make ( some ) decisive decisions for her , but most of all to always have her best interests at heart.
But , males have been literally crushed , crushed into submission , you can't be a man anymore , you can't even go about and try to create a relationship any longer as this could be an " unwanted advance " . How many unwanted advances ended in marriage and child birth ?
We as a society , have to get how heads around the fact , men create a lot of sperm , every hour , this all happens for a reason , and is part of the male mindset , you can't just ignore it.
Men and Women are different and this is one of the joys of life , now please lets just allow it to work like this and stop trying to change the natural.
I personally disagree with large elements of this MyTake.
I do agree on the fact biologically we are not all equals, for example, men cannot give birth, women can- usually men are stronger than women in physical instances.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't treat each other with equal respect. We should stick up for each other as human beings- if I expect a man to stick up for me, I should be expected to stick up for a man too providing he's in the right.
I do also disagree with the 'only men should pay for dates' thing. If a guy always paid personally, I'd feel like I'm scrounging off of him.
Protection doesn't come from being a man it comes from being a gentleman. There's a difference. A gentleman only protects a lady. Woman nowadays aren't ladies so why should any man act like a gentleman and protect a woman who isn't a lady. This goes with the paying on dates as well.
I'm not going to protect some broad from getting her ass kicked by some dude because she's not a lady, therefore, she doesn't deserve anyone to come to her rescue like a gentleman. Guys don't just start hitting women for no reason. I'm also not going to put my life on the line protecting someone I don't even know. Don't want to get your ass kicked? Don't be provocative. And women love being provocative!
Also, any man who beats on another man because he saw a woman getting her ass kick is pathetic. It's one thing to try and stop an altercation between a man and a woman and it's another to assault and batter someone just because they were assaulting and battering someone else. Don't flip the situation, diffuse it!
WTF is that thing? I don't even know.
Sports car or a truck? How did those things even come to define the meaning of being a man? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Not saying you're the one coming up with that since you're just reinforcing a stupid ass stereotype but a type of vehicle a man drives does not define his manhood. He may be a butt of some jokes if he's driving something like a prius but it's how he handles those jokes. It's what men do.
You know what does define a man? A man doesn't do what others (especially women) think a man should do in order to be perceived as being a man. A man does what he wants because he wants to do it.
Funny thing is, people didn't like it either when Feminists in past preached women going to school and learning to read. Feminists and their supporters faced hate and marginalization throughout history. So that makes me wonder is feminism really is the problem.
When I say feminists I am referring to cancer that is modern feminism the kind that does nothing but harm and destroy countless people and lives and is not needed. I am not referring to first wave feminism which I have nothing against and will even agree was needed.
But women today at least in the US are completely equal to men in the eyes of the law and possess all rights a man does. Which was the goal of feminism therefor it no longer has a place in the US and should dissolve itself here.
If feminists really cared about women the way they say they do then they'd be places like the horn advocating and fighting against the terrorists, warlords, criminals and slavers that rule it and regularly mutilate, beat, kill and rape women.
But I stand with my opinion, if women want us to act like men used to then they need to act like women used to. Women have no right to demand we act like the men of old if they aren't willing to do the same and act like women of old.
All I need is a good person and I wouldn't give a rats ass about how 'manly' he is. I don't even know very well what's a man supposed to act like and what's a woman supposed to act like conventionally. If I see a man and feel like he is the kind of person that I want my kids to look up to, then he's a catch. I don't need a guy that acts like a man. I need a guy that IS a man. I hope that makes sense.
@CubsterShura All I need is a good person and I wouldn't give a rats ass about how 'manly' he is. Good for you but this take isn't for those kinds of people.
I don't suspect you would know how a man is supposed to act given how young you are as most guys your age haven't matured enough to act like a man yet.
I don't need a guy that acts like a man. I need a guy that IS a man. If a guy acts like a man then he is a man. It's not a facade you can just put on for a few minutes, it's a lifestyle and a way of living you either are that way or you aren't and it largely has to do with how you were raised.
Any guy can make that choice to live that way or not live that way.
But the thing is that a lot of guys don't act like men because they're tired of getting fucked over by women or being attacked relentlessly by them for acting like men. So they stop, which goes back to what I said above, if y'all want us to be and act like men then y'all be and act like women, end of story.
"If a guy acts like a man then he is a man." No sorry but I don't necessarily think it's the same. I've seen guys who are big and buff and show off their masculinity a lot but they are actually toxic, insecure men. On the other hand, I have a guy friend who loves the color pink and likes Hello Kitty filters when taking selfies but I don't think I ever had such meaningful conversations with a guy of my age, he himself grew up in a family with abusive father and it greatly shaped his idea of how a man should be or should not be. He tells me about his future plans, and I seriously never thought what a well-articulated human being he is. I would easily call him a 'man' and I am quite jealous of his sister for having such an amazing brother.
When I said that I want my man to be a man and not just act like one, I meant in a sense that it's what's on the inside that counts. His personality, mindset, character etc. And not what color he likes or what brand of alcohol he drinks and how he drinks it, or how muscular of a body he has.
@CubsterShura "If a guy acts like a man then he is a man." No sorry but I don't necessarily think it's the same. I've seen guys who are big and buff and show off their masculinity a lot but they are actually toxic, insecure men.
Clearly you do not know what masculinity is if you think that. And your earlier comment about you not even knowing how a man is supposed to act reinforces that, I'd respectfully advise you do not contradict yourself.
I've entertained the conversation long enough, there's no point as a man discussing masculinity with a woman especially a woman who admits herself that she doesn't even know how a man is supposed to act then later claims to know what a man/masculinity is and how it should be.
You totally even missed the point of what I meant.
I meant that a man pretending to be manly and doing stereotypically 'man' stuff isn't what I am after and I don't think that makes anyone a man necessarily. You know exactly what I mean, don't try to deny it just because I did not fully agree with you. You know very well what I mean, don't sound like you don't understand it either.
But let's hear from you anyway what you mean by a man.
I'm not quite sure if I should be laughing at or feeling sorry for you. Firstly, why should I take pride in being part of a gender I did not choose? It's like expecting everyone in Cardiff to support the Cardiff city football team just because they happen to be born there. Secondly, you speak of gender roles but you forget that roles adapt depending on the situation and are not things that are set in stone. The type of 'man' you describe may be how things used to be but that was not out of want but of necessity; because it was more efficient to do things that way. Back then there was limited machinery and most things could only be achieved through manual labour, therefore those who are naturally stronger took on that role and since giving birth was the unique to women, they stayed at home where it was safe. Now in the world of equal opportunities, there is no need for clear set roles and such things are completely outdated and you would do well to adapt your way of thinking as people who think like you do will die out eventually. Efficiency and practicality will always win over tradition. Finally in terms of emotions, just because I am a man I'm not supposed to feel things like sadness or empathy just because... you said so? I fail to see how having a vagina entitles you to some emotions and excludes men to some others. If that last one was a joke, let me tell you, I had a really good laugh out of it. and you should be proud of yourself.
1st of all your a disrespectful girl, i asked you to appologize from me, you haven't answered than i sent you a PM asking you to do it, also you haven't replied...
Just for your info, if you haven't noticed, i unfollowed you, in case you want to unfollow me too...
I had to reply on this question because it seems you have learned a lot of things from me on how to be a real woman since i'm a real man...
It's good that you have nearly the same mindset as mine except you lack for respect...
Now the answer to your question, i agree with everything you said but don't blame men on it, blame these feminazis for the kind of life that we are living today.
Also your strongest proof about being a real man is me, no need to talk more about it, if i can be real it means that there are other real men in the world too but they are very rare and i hope that they won't go extinct!
A woman always needed a man to survive throughout millions of years, a man can do everything by himself but he needs a woman to have kids, to feel love, tender and passion which are very important things in life, while a woman needed a man to LIVE!
A professional mma woman like you can beat a sissy wimp only, even the weakest mma male fighter can beat ronda rousey who is a legend in the mma...
A powerfull girl like you can be used to beat and kick the a*s of other women who wants to act tough on a man, so he doesn't knock her unconscious or dead, the woman will handle the other bully woman.
I forgave you last time and talked with you before you left gag, you won't lose a thing if you say i'm sorry... by the way your friend leonie i BLOCKED HER once and for all...
Over the past century our society has shifted from being predominantly patriarchal to a more post-patriarchal egalitarian society. Feminism and women's suffrage in the late 19th and early-to-mid 20th century has played a huge part in this, and while feminism has been great for women it has largely left men behind. Present day feminism on the other hand, seems to be taking it a step further and is arguably detrimental to men on certain fronts. To sum it up:
1. There is a very severe shortage of men who know how to function in a non-patriarchal society or how to embrace masculinity without being sexist. Baby boomer and Gen X fathers for the most part tend to have more traditional views which contradict the views of modern feminism. Men are literally confused because there's a huge false dichotomy in front of them. And for those men who are growing up without positive male role models, they tend to default to more milquetoast emasculated personalities.
2. Modern day feminism tends to demonize, or at least give the message that masculinity is inherently evil. This has the consequence of a polarizing effect: men will either go towards a more sexist view, or they'll gravitate more towards being umm.. soyboy-ish?
3. Most importantly of all, the particular reason why I believe modern day feminism does nothing for men is because it focuses on telling men what NOT to do, not what TO do. See the problem here?
Just going to throw it out there I'm not a chauvinistic traditionalist who thinks we should revert gender roles back to the Victorian era, I just think that we can be doing better and what we're doing right now isn't working. I firmly believe that positive masculinity does exist, but the vast majority of men are completely clueless on how to embrace masculinity without making it toxic.
Let me be clear here... I am dam proud of being a men, we are fucking awsome! I like to pay for dates, makes me feel like a men! I like to defend my girl, I did it from a dog once, I felt awsome and in pain but screw it. I like to be strong, I do muai thay and I go to the gym. I would not survive in the wild, but that is because I don't have the knowledge to do so. I also think that a modern man doesn't look like that girly dolly verson of whatever that guy is, it's an abomination. Masculinity is well alive and will at least for as long as I live. But... I don't have the money to take my girl out as much as I would like so yes she pays sometimes. I am still a man. I have tons of represed anger and after three years of relationship something happend and I showed my demons to my girl. She hugged me and said she would always be there for me. I cried in her arms. I am still a man. We are powerful, but we are not invencible. That is when we need you. If modern men aren't men enough, modern girls don't know how to take care of their men when he needs anymore. There is still strong men and caring women. Sadly both are a dying breed.
I blamed the women for being abusive towards minors and hitting men. Plus, women hardly want to have sex with men before marriage nowadays which sucks. Why should I be in a relationship with a woman who doesn’t want to get laid. I don’t have time for that. Plus, I blamed White people for raping, torturing, beating up our Black women, and making them suffer during slavery. If any man not a real man, this should be told to White men, then. To say that, a man who hits a woman in self-defense, and have a woman who hits the man first be protected by her male guardian is unfair and childish for another man to interfere to beat up another man for hitting another man for hitting a woman in self-defense. Personally, I don’t think that man who hits another man for hitting a woman in self-defense is a real man at all. If that’s all everybody feel, then they should get their asses kicked for assault, and hitting someone first if that’s everybody’s fantasy of what a real man is. Also, male criminals that doesn’t go to jail or get their asses kicked for committing a crime aren’t real men. For example, sexual criminals like rapists, child molesters, pedophiles, sexual abusers, etc. that prey on anybody. They aren’t real men!
Also, what happens to people fighting someone 1on1? Women nowadays act like men and don’t have any self-respect for themselves that make men don’t respect them. If men gotta be real men, then women have to be real women as well. Personally, to hear this from a woman seems brattish to me who thinks she can get whatever she wants because she’s a female and that makes her a total bitch for that!
Everyone is capable of abuse especially weaker people. They love to bully smaller people. A man hitting a woman in the Midwest is the same as a woman hitting a child.
Women do not get arrested for domestic violence in the Midwest I don't think it's possible. I have never heard of it. Because whatever guy pressed charges becaues a woman hit him. The guy would get beat like a pedophile would be for being such a coward.
Homosexuals have to be driven over 2 counties about 45minutes away. Because the smaller counties are not safe for them they have to be put in the drunk tank or alone in a cell. Being openly gay isn't even a option sadly
Well, it’s fair for a woman to commit domestic violence towards her man and get other men to beat up the domestic violence male victim. Her and the other guys should go to jail for assault and abuse. Also, the guys who beating up the guy in domestic violence don’t know if the other man is innocent and assume right away that he’s an abuser.
What? That ain’t fair! You made an OP post and will only read women’s posts instead of men’s. When you make an OP post your supposed to read men’s posts as well. This sounds totally sexist to me!
No caues men on this question ramble like butt hurt little girls. And bitch. Why would I read them? Why would I care what a whiny little feminine boy says? Females agree. I am sexiest what else is going on lol..
I'm more consistent with someone who was born in the early 80s. I grew up with limited computers. I would be considered city to my rural neighbors, but compared to the big city I live in now I'm much more rural. I can gut a fish. I can build a pike out of wood. I'm moderately prepared for the wild. I can build a fire. I can build a limited shelter for survival. I also know a fair amount of edible North American plants. I would not thrive outside, but I could survive a three days fairly easily. I purposefully train myself for the cold. This year I may learn to gut a deer. My uncle hunt's pretty much anything. He once had to survive a few days in the Canadian Wilderness. I'm not quite that level, but have passed a written survival test. When it comes to women I don't defend what isn't mine. I speak out against wrongdoings still. Though it is my instinct to defend, I cannot defend a woman I have not claimed. When I was younger I got into some fights, but they were pretty lame. I'm not saying all of this to toot my own horn, I personally find it hard to hit someone unless I am defending a loved one. As a Christian you are compelled to seek peace and I do. However their is a time for action and that can get physical. Most fights are motivated by fear, I don't live according to fear so have no reason to engage most fights. However if someone is attacking a loved one I am forced to engage, not out of fear but rather Love. I've been called many things from weak, soft, aggressive, robot, emotionless, sensitive, etc. These of course aren't consistent with each other, but people don't know what to call me. I am a Man, but am rather odd. So much so even my siblings have asked "what are you"? No one really knows what to make of me. There is no set standard for a Man outside the biological, but there are ideals. I maintain some of them, but can work in other areas. The best Man who lives is Jesus Christ, he is the standard and the image I'm working towards.
I think men should pay for dates. I see nothing wrong with the girl picking up the tab periodically or at least expressing gratitude in more than just saying thanks. Sex doesn’t count as expression of gratitude either, because if she’s into me that should be a given. Although I do it, personally I hate paying the way girls who have no commitment to me.
I also don’t care if she’s relaxed and enjoying herself and not worrying about money early on or not. I’m still trying to figure out if I like her. What matters is I’m relaxed and enjoying myself. Once there’s commitment then I care about her wants and needs.
On standing up to another man... it depends. My ex wife used to pick fights with people knowing I’d jump in an end it. After that happened 2x I told her if she runs her smart mouth at someone and they want to stomp her ass out, I’m gonna let them. You put “WOMEN NEED MEN TO STABD UP FOR THEM IN SOME SITUATIONS” in bold. That’s great! And I need to be sucked off every other day. What I see in your take is a continual thread of “what benefits women in those situations.” I don’t care about women who have no commitment to me. What I care about is what benefits me in all these situations. Men are not here to serve women as a whole. I hope you understand that. I have a girlfriend. Yes, I will pay her way and pound anyone who touches her into the ground. Why? She’s committed to me NOT simply because she’s a woman, and so long as she demonstrates her commitment to me and takes care of me, then I will provide and protect. My services are not free are not given to anyone simply for being a woman.
“The WTF is this thing?” Fully agree and strongly desire to see these males killed off.
As a 'classic male' I totally agree with winterfox10 and everything you stated above. Now at the ripe old age of 56 I gave up dating roughly 20 years ago when it became an apparent insult to invite a woman out for dinner (nothing more just the dinner). while being single I have an extensive family and have more feeding, nappy changing (diapers), bathing, and feeding time than most fathers (I was brought up to totally care for family), but no one would call me a 'modern male' as I will fight my corner and when I do there is only one rule - WIN - I do not 'fight fair' never have and never will. If I am allowed I treat everyone I meet with respect but if I happen to meet a woman that insists on being treated as an 'equal', then that is what she will get, being treated the same way I'd treat a man, no passes, no excuses accepted, get on and do what needs to be done, When the ears and wailing starts it has no effect, I have four younger sisters so I see through the BS these 'equal' women use when being 'equal' is too much for them.
A lot of the food we eat have chemicals. Chickens are injected with estrogen, the female hormone to make them bigger. It effects us and increases the female hormone in men. Secondly, porn and masturbation on the long term helps decrease your temptation. Pleasing yourself constantly lowers your levels of testosterone, the male hormone. Many famous fighters prevent themselves from sex or masturbation in order to increase their aggression when fighting. This is all based on science. Now a lot of men aren't as pleased with a real woman because of all the pornography filling their eyes constantly. It's insane... also men have softer living now a days. Most women are doing the mans job and doing the womans job. Most men (in most parts of the world) aren't doing the womans job, just their job. But this theory is the weakest out of all three i mentioned. :)
Me and anouther guy on here (one of the ten guys to reply that are reasonable and didn't take it personally) we said geographic location also had a lot to do with this.
Right, it would be way better if men were dependend and addicted to women, and had no CHOICE other than being whatever they want to be, if they want to satisfy their urges. You know, as if they were womens slaves.
by the way, don't complain about men not being aggressive and numb enough, but THEN also complain about too many rapists, men not caring about your feelings, and men being more successful in competitive environments. You CAN'T HAVE BOTH.
Not quite sure where you have got your idea of "Men" Considering the tangible identity they hold through out time.
Are you talking about the pinnicle of masculinity the Spartans who held off a horde of invaders for a short period of time, before being masacared beyond recognition... Also used to Sleep with underage boys to bring them of age.
The Knights who would ride into battle on their mighty steads, wearing armor that was completely counter productive to the objective. End up realizing a horse was not the most useful form of transport on the battle field, but also of a society that thought Math was the Devils work.
Or perhaps the "Tough" as nails navy seal or marine who with little other prospects, goes on some kind of self rewarding trip in service of private investors and commit horrid acts against fellow men. Leaving them with undoubtedly some of thee worst mental health our society is not prepared to address?
Because what seems quite apparent barely half way through your assertion is the complete lack of historical or contemporary education. Men are probably at their best across the board state they have come to. Medical advances feeding 50% of the poor. universal Health Care becoming a world phenomina. Jobs being created to provide capitol to more people than was available previous.
If you honestly under the impression that Mens worth is valued by what Women think of him... Then my friend, you are the waste of male genitalia. Not the current age of men.
Paying for dates and protecting your girl should be expected of a boyfriend. That doesn’t mean the guy needs to be a professional fighter or something like that but I do believe it means that he should be able to have the strength to protect her which is why I’m glad that I grew up playing sports such as football and wrestling. Now do I have the perfect body, no I don’t, I could probably tone down a bit but I know that I can protect the ones I care about.
And when it comes to some men “not being men” I just think some men (and women too) entitled to certain things without putting in the work to earn it.
While I am completely new to dating and have no dating experience, what I can say is that I don’t think being a feminine guy would be good for me and I don’t want to be a feminine guy at all. Not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing but it’s not what I want to be.
Basically I see myself being a provider and protector for my future girlfriend and she being a kind, down to earth and loving girlfriend.
My boyfriend is not a “manly man” by your definition. He doesn’t fight and he cries sometimes, he's not got a 7inch beard or a six pack and no of course he wouldn’t survive if you chucked him in the “wild” but none of us would so stop bullshitting yourself. Just imagine this was the other way round “what happened to women being women” and the whole take was just slamming women and all the things we do everyone would loose their shit but because it’s not the other way round women are actually agreeing with you. I agree feminism is aids but I think shaming men for being men is one of the worst things you can do. Also whoever asks you out should pay. Honestly there were too many things wrong with this and I think you need to go back into the kitchen and obey because if men have to be “manly” you have to do your part and do as they say
AND WHAT THE FUCK DID HAPPEN TO WOMEN BEING WOMEN? I wanna do the other side of this take to balance it out, her arguments are totally fair, so too would mine be.
Some of us would survive if chucked in the wild. My father, your father very well might. Certainly our grandfather's would have, hell they could have most likely taken care of their whole family in the wild, back in their prime.
Just because the 'norm' has turned to shit, don't let that change the facts of reality. The facts, outside of this little sphere we call 'cultural hallucination', are that WE ARE WEAK, and we are getting weaker, and by we, I mostly mean men, a. k. a the ones that we as a society depend on to be strong.
I degree with mostly everything except your “Paying for dates” point. Both individuals are looking to pursue a relationship so both should contribute to it emotionally and financially.
I always offer to split the bill in any date regardless whether I lost/found interest because it’s the polite thing to do.
Now your reinforced point was
“You want her to be able to relax and enjoy her time with you don’t you? And that will be difficult if a girl is worried about the money she’s spending she did not plan on.”
I can definitely enjoy my time and be relaxed in the date even if I contribute to it financially. I can speak for myself I value every incredibly sweet man who is willing to pay fully for dates but you shouldn’t put up with this when both individuals are pursuing a relationship.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
192Opinion
lack of father figures - loss of training, and feminization of training (instead of hard, hands on work, it's soft work)
Disconnection from nature - tell someone you cut up a fish or shot and slaughtered a deer for food and see reaction.
feminization of boys in society (as noted elsewhere here)
not enough strenous exercise and physical challenges that build character... men used to work hard outdoors, now we sit at desks and type. that used to be womens work!
Society shifted - men's usage of power and force not accepted, it's language law that are preferred. Women gained power... they often screw themselves.
Solutions?
Drop the excess fat - diet chg
HIIT exercise
Enroll boys in physical activities - good luck changing education, govt doesn't want macho, physical, high testosterone men outside of military. Turn off TV's and games.
Keep men in kids lives, keep families together.
Kill all the lawyers, or send them to mars... whatever - that's kinda manly isn't it?
More bar fights!
It's impossible to answer the question to why men are different than before without mentioning women. Just like it's impossible to answer why women are different without mentioning men.
Society changes, we change with it as well as it changes with us. We adapt to the changes of the other gender, as well as they adapt to us.
If you tell women they gotta show they're as successful as men in their careers by the display of their income, this forces women to start paying for dates, which forces men to not want to pay for dates. If you shame a man for wanting to pay for the date, that man is gonna be reluctant to pay for dates with other women.
Male and female changes go hand in hand. I think some changes are for good, while others I don't like too much, but that's fine, because there's still a lot of people that fall under the category of what this post will call a "man", as well as the equivalent of the opposite gender, so if you want that type of people in your life, search for them.
Haha this is very cute. What happened to females wanting equal pay, equal say in society, etc... first point, most men are proud to be men, we work hard, take care of our responsibilities, handle our business and hardly take breaks (I’m talking for me and the people I know around me). A woman that expects to be taken care of is not a woman, she is a little spoiled brat that wants to be treated like a queen. Not going to happen. Second point, domestic violence is wrong. And I have stepped in, when a man was beating his woman. But there were also, 30 other girls in the group and maybe 12-15 men.. so where were the woman to step in.. it’s a human thing, not a sex or gender thing. And surprise, surprise. Not a woman brave enough to help de-escalate the situation. If another man was there that girl would have been fucked.. third point, I don’t fuck with woman that won’t carry there own weight, and some women are heavy as fuck! But a woman, that loves to go out and eat, and not pay some of her way, is a worthless woman. She won’t be able to offer me anything in a relationship but a warm pussy... and I can pretty much find that anywhere.. so show me you are a unique gem and be responsible for yourself or have the balls to show society.. “I’m a strong women, who has more to offer than just my pussy...”
First of all really well written.
I agree with you completely , but " they " have destroyed the male gender , I was bought up with 3 Sisters who were all very strong , I was bought up to protect my women , to fight for there dignity , to be aware of danger , but to never ever " strike " a woman , for this is the action of a coward. To open the door for her , to make ( some ) decisive decisions for her , but most of all to always have her best interests at heart.
But , males have been literally crushed , crushed into submission , you can't be a man anymore , you can't even go about and try to create a relationship any longer as this could be an " unwanted advance " . How many unwanted advances ended in marriage and child birth ?
We as a society , have to get how heads around the fact , men create a lot of sperm , every hour , this all happens for a reason , and is part of the male mindset , you can't just ignore it.
Men and Women are different and this is one of the joys of life , now please lets just allow it to work like this and stop trying to change the natural.
I personally disagree with large elements of this MyTake.
I do agree on the fact biologically we are not all equals, for example, men cannot give birth, women can- usually men are stronger than women in physical instances.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't treat each other with equal respect. We should stick up for each other as human beings- if I expect a man to stick up for me, I should be expected to stick up for a man too providing he's in the right.
I do also disagree with the 'only men should pay for dates' thing. If a guy always paid personally, I'd feel like I'm scrounging off of him.
That's fine you know I love you regaurdless
@SpiderManFan2002
@Wowgirl30q thank you :)
Of course
Protection doesn't come from being a man it comes from being a gentleman. There's a difference. A gentleman only protects a lady. Woman nowadays aren't ladies so why should any man act like a gentleman and protect a woman who isn't a lady. This goes with the paying on dates as well.
I'm not going to protect some broad from getting her ass kicked by some dude because she's not a lady, therefore, she doesn't deserve anyone to come to her rescue like a gentleman. Guys don't just start hitting women for no reason. I'm also not going to put my life on the line protecting someone I don't even know. Don't want to get your ass kicked? Don't be provocative. And women love being provocative!
Also, any man who beats on another man because he saw a woman getting her ass kick is pathetic. It's one thing to try and stop an altercation between a man and a woman and it's another to assault and batter someone just because they were assaulting and battering someone else. Don't flip the situation, diffuse it!
WTF is that thing? I don't even know.
Sports car or a truck? How did those things even come to define the meaning of being a man? That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Not saying you're the one coming up with that since you're just reinforcing a stupid ass stereotype but a type of vehicle a man drives does not define his manhood. He may be a butt of some jokes if he's driving something like a prius but it's how he handles those jokes. It's what men do.
You know what does define a man? A man doesn't do what others (especially women) think a man should do in order to be perceived as being a man. A man does what he wants because he wants to do it.
Some of us still are that way those of us who were raised traditionally anyway.
We could also ask the same question in regards to women, what happened to women acting like proper ladies?
It's a two way street, you can't in your right mind expect men to want to act like men used to if women won't do the same.
But you can thank feminists, the attempted destruction of the nuclear family, the media and soy in the food for the emasculation of men.
also it'd be more accurate to say most modern people in general would die in nature both men and women.
Too much truth in one post.
@StellarDrift Indeed.
Funny thing is, people didn't like it either when Feminists in past preached women going to school and learning to read. Feminists and their supporters faced hate and marginalization throughout history. So that makes me wonder is feminism really is the problem.
Good opinion thank you we'll put
@Phoenix98
@CubsterShura I didn't read your first two rants so sure?
@StellarDrift it tough
Its..
@CubsterShura
When I say feminists I am referring to cancer that is modern feminism the kind that does nothing but harm and destroy countless people and lives and is not needed. I am not referring to first wave feminism which I have nothing against and will even agree was needed.
But women today at least in the US are completely equal to men in the eyes of the law and possess all rights a man does. Which was the goal of feminism therefor it no longer has a place in the US and should dissolve itself here.
If feminists really cared about women the way they say they do then they'd be places like the horn advocating and fighting against the terrorists, warlords, criminals and slavers that rule it and regularly mutilate, beat, kill and rape women.
But I stand with my opinion, if women want us to act like men used to then they need to act like women used to. Women have no right to demand we act like the men of old if they aren't willing to do the same and act like women of old.
All I need is a good person and I wouldn't give a rats ass about how 'manly' he is. I don't even know very well what's a man supposed to act like and what's a woman supposed to act like conventionally. If I see a man and feel like he is the kind of person that I want my kids to look up to, then he's a catch. I don't need a guy that acts like a man. I need a guy that IS a man. I hope that makes sense.
@CubsterShura All I need is a good person and I wouldn't give a rats ass about how 'manly' he is. Good for you but this take isn't for those kinds of people.
I don't suspect you would know how a man is supposed to act given how young you are as most guys your age haven't matured enough to act like a man yet.
I don't need a guy that acts like a man. I need a guy that IS a man. If a guy acts like a man then he is a man. It's not a facade you can just put on for a few minutes, it's a lifestyle and a way of living you either are that way or you aren't and it largely has to do with how you were raised.
Any guy can make that choice to live that way or not live that way.
But the thing is that a lot of guys don't act like men because they're tired of getting fucked over by women or being attacked relentlessly by them for acting like men. So they stop, which goes back to what I said above, if y'all want us to be and act like men then y'all be and act like women, end of story.
"If a guy acts like a man then he is a man." No sorry but I don't necessarily think it's the same. I've seen guys who are big and buff and show off their masculinity a lot but they are actually toxic, insecure men. On the other hand, I have a guy friend who loves the color pink and likes Hello Kitty filters when taking selfies but I don't think I ever had such meaningful conversations with a guy of my age, he himself grew up in a family with abusive father and it greatly shaped his idea of how a man should be or should not be. He tells me about his future plans, and I seriously never thought what a well-articulated human being he is. I would easily call him a 'man' and I am quite jealous of his sister for having such an amazing brother.
When I said that I want my man to be a man and not just act like one, I meant in a sense that it's what's on the inside that counts. His personality, mindset, character etc. And not what color he likes or what brand of alcohol he drinks and how he drinks it, or how muscular of a body he has.
@CubsterShura "If a guy acts like a man then he is a man." No sorry but I don't necessarily think it's the same. I've seen guys who are big and buff and show off their masculinity a lot but they are actually toxic, insecure men.
Clearly you do not know what masculinity is if you think that. And your earlier comment about you not even knowing how a man is supposed to act reinforces that, I'd respectfully advise you do not contradict yourself.
I've entertained the conversation long enough, there's no point as a man discussing masculinity with a woman especially a woman who admits herself that she doesn't even know how a man is supposed to act then later claims to know what a man/masculinity is and how it should be.
You totally even missed the point of what I meant.
I meant that a man pretending to be manly and doing stereotypically 'man' stuff isn't what I am after and I don't think that makes anyone a man necessarily. You know exactly what I mean, don't try to deny it just because I did not fully agree with you. You know very well what I mean, don't sound like you don't understand it either.
But let's hear from you anyway what you mean by a man.
I'm not quite sure if I should be laughing at or feeling sorry for you.
Firstly, why should I take pride in being part of a gender I did not choose? It's like expecting everyone in Cardiff to support the Cardiff city football team just because they happen to be born there.
Secondly, you speak of gender roles but you forget that roles adapt depending on the situation and are not things that are set in stone. The type of 'man' you describe may be how things used to be but that was not out of want but of necessity; because it was more efficient to do things that way. Back then there was limited machinery and most things could only be achieved through manual labour, therefore those who are naturally stronger took on that role and since giving birth was the unique to women, they stayed at home where it was safe.
Now in the world of equal opportunities, there is no need for clear set roles and such things are completely outdated and you would do well to adapt your way of thinking as people who think like you do will die out eventually. Efficiency and practicality will always win over tradition.
Finally in terms of emotions, just because I am a man I'm not supposed to feel things like sadness or empathy just because... you said so? I fail to see how having a vagina entitles you to some emotions and excludes men to some others. If that last one was a joke, let me tell you, I had a really good laugh out of it. and you should be proud of yourself.
If anybody is laughing they are laughing at you because you are the same kind of pussy she is talking about
Notice: my answer might be harsh on you...
1st of all your a disrespectful girl, i asked you to appologize from me, you haven't answered than i sent you a PM asking you to do it, also you haven't replied...
Just for your info, if you haven't noticed, i unfollowed you, in case you want to unfollow me too...
I had to reply on this question because it seems you have learned a lot of things from me on how to be a real woman since i'm a real man...
It's good that you have nearly the same mindset as mine except you lack for respect...
Now the answer to your question, i agree with everything you said but don't blame men on it, blame these feminazis for the kind of life that we are living today.
Also your strongest proof about being a real man is me, no need to talk more about it, if i can be real it means that there are other real men in the world too but they are very rare and i hope that they won't go extinct!
A woman always needed a man to survive throughout millions of years, a man can do everything by himself but he needs a woman to have kids, to feel love, tender and passion which are very important things in life, while a woman needed a man to LIVE!
A professional mma woman like you can beat a sissy wimp only, even the weakest mma male fighter can beat ronda rousey who is a legend in the mma...
A powerfull girl like you can be used to beat and kick the a*s of other women who wants to act tough on a man, so he doesn't knock her unconscious or dead, the woman will handle the other bully woman.
I forgave you last time and talked with you before you left gag, you won't lose a thing if you say i'm sorry... by the way your friend leonie i BLOCKED HER once and for all...
Thanks for the feminist loser who downvoted my comment and for each upcoming feminist who will downvote it too... kiss my a*s 😂
Over the past century our society has shifted from being predominantly patriarchal to a more post-patriarchal egalitarian society. Feminism and women's suffrage in the late 19th and early-to-mid 20th century has played a huge part in this, and while feminism has been great for women it has largely left men behind. Present day feminism on the other hand, seems to be taking it a step further and is arguably detrimental to men on certain fronts. To sum it up:
1. There is a very severe shortage of men who know how to function in a non-patriarchal society or how to embrace masculinity without being sexist. Baby boomer and Gen X fathers for the most part tend to have more traditional views which contradict the views of modern feminism. Men are literally confused because there's a huge false dichotomy in front of them. And for those men who are growing up without positive male role models, they tend to default to more milquetoast emasculated personalities.
2. Modern day feminism tends to demonize, or at least give the message that masculinity is inherently evil. This has the consequence of a polarizing effect: men will either go towards a more sexist view, or they'll gravitate more towards being umm.. soyboy-ish?
3. Most importantly of all, the particular reason why I believe modern day feminism does nothing for men is because it focuses on telling men what NOT to do, not what TO do. See the problem here?
Just going to throw it out there I'm not a chauvinistic traditionalist who thinks we should revert gender roles back to the Victorian era, I just think that we can be doing better and what we're doing right now isn't working. I firmly believe that positive masculinity does exist, but the vast majority of men are completely clueless on how to embrace masculinity without making it toxic.
Let me be clear here...
I am dam proud of being a men, we are fucking awsome!
I like to pay for dates, makes me feel like a men!
I like to defend my girl, I did it from a dog once, I felt awsome and in pain but screw it.
I like to be strong, I do muai thay and I go to the gym.
I would not survive in the wild, but that is because I don't have the knowledge to do so.
I also think that a modern man doesn't look like that girly dolly verson of whatever that guy is, it's an abomination.
Masculinity is well alive and will at least for as long as I live.
But... I don't have the money to take my girl out as much as I would like so yes she pays sometimes. I am still a man.
I have tons of represed anger and after three years of relationship something happend and I showed my demons to my girl. She hugged me and said she would always be there for me. I cried in her arms. I am still a man.
We are powerful, but we are not invencible. That is when we need you. If modern men aren't men enough, modern girls don't know how to take care of their men when he needs anymore. There is still strong men and caring women. Sadly both are a dying breed.
I blamed the women for being abusive towards minors and hitting men. Plus, women hardly want to have sex with men before marriage nowadays which sucks. Why should I be in a relationship with a woman who doesn’t want to get laid. I don’t have time for that. Plus, I blamed White people for raping, torturing, beating up our Black women, and making them suffer during slavery. If any man not a real man, this should be told to White men, then.
To say that, a man who hits a woman in self-defense, and have a woman who hits the man first be protected by her male guardian is unfair and childish for another man to interfere to beat up another man for hitting another man for hitting a woman in self-defense. Personally, I don’t think that man who hits another man for hitting a woman in self-defense is a real man at all. If that’s all everybody feel, then they should get their asses kicked for assault, and hitting someone first if that’s everybody’s fantasy of what a real man is.
Also, male criminals that doesn’t go to jail or get their asses kicked for committing a crime aren’t real men. For example, sexual criminals like rapists, child molesters, pedophiles, sexual abusers, etc. that prey on anybody. They aren’t real men!
I see your point
Also, what happens to people fighting someone 1on1? Women nowadays act like men and don’t have any self-respect for themselves that make men don’t respect them. If men gotta be real men, then women have to be real women as well. Personally, to hear this from a woman seems brattish to me who thinks she can get whatever she wants because she’s a female and that makes her a total bitch for that!
Do you blame the men when they're abusive towards minors?
Women usually don't hit men. They don't have the upper body strength and if they do hit a man he usually hits her right back
@bailey11 Tbh, I rarely see men being abusive towards minors. Then, again I do see minors that be hitting men and your not allowed to hit them back.
Everyone is capable of abuse especially weaker people. They love to bully smaller people. A man hitting a woman in the Midwest is the same as a woman hitting a child.
Women do not get arrested for domestic violence in the Midwest I don't think it's possible. I have never heard of it. Because whatever guy pressed charges becaues a woman hit him. The guy would get beat like a pedophile would be for being such a coward.
Homosexuals have to be driven over 2 counties about 45minutes away. Because the smaller counties are not safe for them they have to be put in the drunk tank or alone in a cell. Being openly gay isn't even a option sadly
Well, it’s fair for a woman to commit domestic violence towards her man and get other men to beat up the domestic violence male victim. Her and the other guys should go to jail for assault and abuse. Also, the guys who beating up the guy in domestic violence don’t know if the other man is innocent and assume right away that he’s an abuser.
Also, why did you triple-post instead of posting all your posts in one post?
I don't know I hate rants
It's not fair but it's the Bible Belt
We move different
Well, okay.
You hate rants? What did you expect? You made an OP post talking about men. Of course, there’s gonna be men ranting about this OP post.
Oh it doesn't matter I don't read them
What? That ain’t fair! You made an OP post and will only read women’s posts instead of men’s. When you make an OP post your supposed to read men’s posts as well. This sounds totally sexist to me!
No caues men on this question ramble like butt hurt little girls. And bitch. Why would I read them? Why would I care what a whiny little feminine boy says? Females agree.
I am sexiest what else is going on lol..
I do what I want
You sound like a fucking bitch, with that comment. BETCH!
Now you're getting it
Manly ass bitch!
I'm more consistent with someone who was born in the early 80s. I grew up with limited computers. I would be considered city to my rural neighbors, but compared to the big city I live in now I'm much more rural. I can gut a fish. I can build a pike out of wood. I'm moderately prepared for the wild. I can build a fire. I can build a limited shelter for survival. I also know a fair amount of edible North American plants. I would not thrive outside, but I could survive a three days fairly easily. I purposefully train myself for the cold. This year I may learn to gut a deer. My uncle hunt's pretty much anything. He once had to survive a few days in the Canadian Wilderness. I'm not quite that level, but have passed a written survival test. When it comes to women I don't defend what isn't mine. I speak out against wrongdoings still. Though it is my instinct to defend, I cannot defend a woman I have not claimed. When I was younger I got into some fights, but they were pretty lame. I'm not saying all of this to toot my own horn, I personally find it hard to hit someone unless I am defending a loved one. As a Christian you are compelled to seek peace and I do. However their is a time for action and that can get physical. Most fights are motivated by fear, I don't live according to fear so have no reason to engage most fights. However if someone is attacking a loved one I am forced to engage, not out of fear but rather Love. I've been called many things from weak, soft, aggressive, robot, emotionless, sensitive, etc. These of course aren't consistent with each other, but people don't know what to call me. I am a Man, but am rather odd. So much so even my siblings have asked "what are you"? No one really knows what to make of me. There is no set standard for a Man outside the biological, but there are ideals. I maintain some of them, but can work in other areas. The best Man who lives is Jesus Christ, he is the standard and the image I'm working towards.
I agree with some of this and some I don’t.
I think men should pay for dates. I see nothing wrong with the girl picking up the tab periodically or at least expressing gratitude in more than just saying thanks. Sex doesn’t count as expression of gratitude either, because if she’s into me that should be a given. Although I do it, personally I hate paying the way girls who have no commitment to me.
I also don’t care if she’s relaxed and enjoying herself and not worrying about money early on or not. I’m still trying to figure out if I like her. What matters is I’m relaxed and enjoying myself. Once there’s commitment then I care about her wants and needs.
On standing up to another man... it depends. My ex wife used to pick fights with people knowing I’d jump in an end it. After that happened 2x I told her if she runs her smart mouth at someone and they want to stomp her ass out, I’m gonna let them. You put “WOMEN NEED MEN TO STABD UP FOR THEM IN SOME SITUATIONS” in bold. That’s great! And I need to be sucked off every other day. What I see in your take is a continual thread of “what benefits women in those situations.” I don’t care about women who have no commitment to me. What I care about is what benefits me in all these situations. Men are not here to serve women as a whole. I hope you understand that. I have a girlfriend. Yes, I will pay her way and pound anyone who touches her into the ground. Why? She’s committed to me NOT simply because she’s a woman, and so long as she demonstrates her commitment to me and takes care of me, then I will provide and protect. My services are not free are not given to anyone simply for being a woman.
“The WTF is this thing?” Fully agree and strongly desire to see these males killed off.
As a 'classic male' I totally agree with winterfox10 and everything you stated above. Now at the ripe old age of 56 I gave up dating roughly 20 years ago when it became an apparent insult to invite a woman out for dinner (nothing more just the dinner). while being single I have an extensive family and have more feeding, nappy changing (diapers), bathing, and feeding time than most fathers (I was brought up to totally care for family), but no one would call me a 'modern male' as I will fight my corner and when I do there is only one rule - WIN - I do not 'fight fair' never have and never will.
If I am allowed I treat everyone I meet with respect but if I happen to meet a woman that insists on being treated as an 'equal', then that is what she will get, being treated the same way I'd treat a man, no passes, no excuses accepted, get on and do what needs to be done, When the ears and wailing starts it has no effect, I have four younger sisters so I see through the BS these 'equal' women use when being 'equal' is too much for them.
A lot of the food we eat have chemicals. Chickens are injected with estrogen, the female hormone to make them bigger. It effects us and increases the female hormone in men. Secondly, porn and masturbation on the long term helps decrease your temptation. Pleasing yourself constantly lowers your levels of testosterone, the male hormone. Many famous fighters prevent themselves from sex or masturbation in order to increase their aggression when fighting. This is all based on science. Now a lot of men aren't as pleased with a real woman because of all the pornography filling their eyes constantly. It's insane... also men have softer living now a days. Most women are doing the mans job and doing the womans job. Most men (in most parts of the world) aren't doing the womans job, just their job. But this theory is the weakest out of all three i mentioned. :)
Thank you for your input.
Very nice miss 👍
Your welcome 😊
Me and anouther guy on here (one of the ten guys to reply that are reasonable and didn't take it personally) we said geographic location also had a lot to do with this.
Probably that too
❤️❤️❤️
Right, it would be way better if men were dependend and addicted to women, and had no CHOICE other than being whatever they want to be, if they want to satisfy their urges.
You know, as if they were womens slaves.
by the way, don't complain about men not being aggressive and numb enough, but THEN also complain about too many rapists, men not caring about your feelings, and men being more successful in competitive environments. You CAN'T HAVE BOTH.
Not quite sure where you have got your idea of "Men" Considering the tangible identity they hold through out time.
Are you talking about the pinnicle of masculinity the Spartans who held off a horde of invaders for a short period of time, before being masacared beyond recognition... Also used to Sleep with underage boys to bring them of age.
The Knights who would ride into battle on their mighty steads, wearing armor that was completely counter productive to the objective. End up realizing a horse was not the most useful form of transport on the battle field, but also of a society that thought Math was the Devils work.
Or perhaps the "Tough" as nails navy seal or marine who with little other prospects, goes on some kind of self rewarding trip in service of private investors and commit horrid acts against fellow men. Leaving them with undoubtedly some of thee worst mental health our society is not prepared to address?
Because what seems quite apparent barely half way through your assertion is the complete lack of historical or contemporary education. Men are probably at their best across the board state they have come to. Medical advances feeding 50% of the poor. universal Health Care becoming a world phenomina. Jobs being created to provide capitol to more people than was available previous.
If you honestly under the impression that Mens worth is valued by what Women think of him... Then my friend, you are the waste of male genitalia. Not the current age of men.
But i won't stop you dragging your knuckles.
Paying for dates and protecting your girl should be expected of a boyfriend. That doesn’t mean the guy needs to be a professional fighter or something like that but I do believe it means that he should be able to have the strength to protect her which is why I’m glad that I grew up playing sports such as football and wrestling. Now do I have the perfect body, no I don’t, I could probably tone down a bit but I know that I can protect the ones I care about.
And when it comes to some men “not being men” I just think some men (and women too) entitled to certain things without putting in the work to earn it.
While I am completely new to dating and have no dating experience, what I can say is that I don’t think being a feminine guy would be good for me and I don’t want to be a feminine guy at all. Not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing but it’s not what I want to be.
Basically I see myself being a provider and protector for my future girlfriend and she being a kind, down to earth and loving girlfriend.
Anyways, that’s how I feel about this subject.
My boyfriend is not a “manly man” by your definition. He doesn’t fight and he cries sometimes, he's not got a 7inch beard or a six pack and no of course he wouldn’t survive if you chucked him in the “wild” but none of us would so stop bullshitting yourself. Just imagine this was the other way round “what happened to women being women” and the whole take was just slamming women and all the things we do everyone would loose their shit but because it’s not the other way round women are actually agreeing with you. I agree feminism is aids but I think shaming men for being men is one of the worst things you can do. Also whoever asks you out should pay. Honestly there were too many things wrong with this and I think you need to go back into the kitchen and obey because if men have to be “manly” you have to do your part and do as they say
AND WHAT THE FUCK DID HAPPEN TO WOMEN BEING WOMEN? I wanna do the other side of this take to balance it out, her arguments are totally fair, so too would mine be.
Some of us would survive if chucked in the wild. My father, your father very well might. Certainly our grandfather's would have, hell they could have most likely taken care of their whole family in the wild, back in their prime.
Just because the 'norm' has turned to shit, don't let that change the facts of reality. The facts, outside of this little sphere we call 'cultural hallucination', are that WE ARE WEAK, and we are getting weaker, and by we, I mostly mean men, a. k. a the ones that we as a society depend on to be strong.
I degree with mostly everything except your “Paying for dates” point. Both individuals are looking to pursue a relationship so both should contribute to it emotionally and financially.
I always offer to split the bill in any date regardless whether I lost/found interest because it’s the polite thing to do.
Now your reinforced point was
“You want her to be able to relax and enjoy her time with you don’t you? And that will be difficult if a girl is worried about the money she’s spending she did not plan on.”
I can definitely enjoy my time and be relaxed in the date even if I contribute to it financially. I can speak for myself I value every incredibly sweet man who is willing to pay fully for dates but you shouldn’t put up with this when both individuals are pursuing a relationship.