Why Men Keep Being Weak With Women

[ManOnFire]

I saw it again a few weeks ago at a festival. Another guy following around a girl he likes like a puppy. I know this girl. Friendly and very quiet and cute with a nice figure. It was sad and pathetic seeing that guy staying latched on to her the whole time. He even did the classic move of coming back to sit and eat with her. He either doesn’t know she has a boyfriend - and she’s not saying it. Or he knows but still thinks he can try to work his magic on her. Or, she’s done with her boyfriend and he thinks he can go in for the kill. Either way, he is not a winner, even if he thinks he is.

Yes, he is another “simp,” even if women don’t like that term. It doesn’t change the truth of the matter. No guy should be so latched on to a woman to a point of acting as if he’s going to lose her or another guy will steal her if he doesn’t be her ball and chain 24/7. That’s not confidence, and it pushes women away even more. Sadly, a lot of guys today do not realize this.

Men are taught to be weak

But it’s actually not entirely men’s fault that so many are weak with and for women. It’s largely because men are raised to be this way. Growing up, men are still being taught to behave like a gentleman with women, to be soft and romantic to appeal to them or as a form of respect in courtship or dating - which are not wrong values, but these guys do exactly these things thinking a woman will love them for it, when that doesn't always happen. This is what ends up making them look like simps or ‘nice guys.’ And women use men who want to be very loving and giving to them. Even Courtney Ryan mentioned this:

Imagine all the mothers out there who have taught their sons to be a good gentleman for a woman, that this is what women want, when instead many will just see these gentlemen as easy pushovers. It is sad and totally wrong, but true. Even many of these mothers have used a man at one point or another in their lives, and sometimes their own daughters have learned it from their moms. Women have no less of a fuck ‘em and chuck ‘em mentality than men do, they just do it in different ways.

Men are also taught that women are pure and want good men

We have also been falsely teaching men to think all or most women are of a refined and upright nature who want nice, decent men. And there are plenty who do, but also plenty who really just want to use decent men.

Because of it, men today still believe most women are romantic, only want sex inside of a relationship, and can be won with kindness and love. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Which is also why a lot of these guys end up in absolute mental and emotional down spirals when they find out some girl they liked was nowhere near the innocent, celibate maiden they pretended to be, or what he wanted to believe was the case. They drown in a funk when they find out she slept with another guy, or already was. Or they later on realize such a sweet girl they were into was using him the whole time just to get something or some other guy.

But women too want men to believe they’re all looking for love, looking for a gentleman who wants to go on dinner dates, who will care all about them, etc. Which they are, but they’re picking and choosing which men they want this from. They see a decent guy as a great catch for a relationship, would make a great father, and they’ll even try to withhold sex from him as a way to either make him work for it or see if he’ll still want her if he’s not getting it. Meanwhile she’s having sex easily with men she knows aren’t good quality and she would never marry them but they excite her sexually.

Men are afraid of standing up to women

This is a fact. Most men will not take a stand for their own respect and demand it from a woman because they’re afraid she will get angry, hate him, and leave him. This is another reason they are so weak with women and is the core of their fear, and why so many guys will just keep tolerating shit from a woman and keep being a pushover.

But again, this is not entirely men’s fault. Parents, society, and women themselves have taught men old, foolish, outdated 1950s ideas that if you do anything a woman doesn’t like you’re going to “end up in the dog house” or she’s going to leave you for someone else and you’ll end up alone. And we also largely disable men’s defenses by teaching them the lie that taking a stand for respect is misogynist and disrespectful to women, while it’s okay for women to disrespect the man. We are constantly trying to put this crap into guys’ minds so that they will forever be a slave to women’s emotions, manipulation, and selfishness.

Tons of guys live in fear that a woman will stop talking to him if he stands up to her. They’re afraid of the silent treatment, afraid she will abandon him. And this kind of slavery is exactly what women do want over men because it’s how they can control and manipulate them. Most women think they can talk to you however they want to, behave with you however they want, because they figure they’re a woman and no one will say she’s wrong, and they know you are a man who is not going to put her in her place because you’re attracted and want to be nice to her. Men allow women to disrespect them, and women know it and that is why they aren’t changing.

Demanding respect gets you respect

Meanwhile guys don’t realize - which, again, is not their fault - that demanding respect is what actually makes a woman end up giving it, even if they try to act like they hate you for it. And men who want respect and aren’t afraid of losing a woman for it are exactly the ones that women will try to hold on to, because they don’t like the idea that he could leave her and find better.

It wasn’t until I had enough with a long time female friend awhile back that she later on realized how she fucked up and what she lost. She always thought I would be a sissy who would tolerate her punches, and she saw that turned out not to be the case. She didn’t like that I stood up for myself. Then months later she wanted to reach out, and I know it was only because she wanted something. I never responded. Once a woman fails the test, don’t keep tolerating it. She’s already shown you who she really is, and she will just do it again. Move on to better. Sometimes walking away is getting respect.

Just try to be different and see what happens

I too was once a weak simp in my youth, and I learned from it and that's why I share all this. What if I told you that you wouldn’t die like you think you will if you woke up from this weakness? What if I told you that you will not only be stronger but you will be more attractive as well? I’m not saying you need to switch over to all that bullshit foolishness about being a badass to be respected or attract women. Any woman who loves men like this are not good quality and you don’t want that. But I am saying you need to learn to accept yourself and value your self-respect even if she doesn’t. If any woman can be disgusted, “turned off,” stop talking to you, or even laugh because you want to be respected, she is not a woman you will want in the end anyway, and she will show you that.

Don’t feel like you have to be desperate to be around the girl you like day and night. Don’t think you have to do nice things for her. And don’t even think you have to be super kind to her either just because you like her or she's pretty. They want you to be so they can control you. Don’t give it. Just be you. Any woman who really likes you is going to return the interest, care, concern, time, and respect. Break free from the mindset that you have to be a certain way in the hopes that a girl will want you or want to stay connected to you.

Namaste, and good luck.

[blueonblack22]

Funny I had I told a bisexual girl on GAG my story about how my ex had her roommate and her roommate’s boyfriend conveniently over her place the day she broke up with me. I had to get my bicycle back from her place and that is the day she did it. But there just so happened to be other people around. A break up should be a private conversation but it wasn’t for me

I was surface friendly to the other people when I dropped by her place. But when I walked outside I asked her roommate and her boyfriend “do you want the front door open/closed” and the her roommate’s boyfriend immediately responded with “keep it open” in brusk tone. In that exact moment I knew it was no coincidence they were around. My soon to be ex set the whole thing up. They were there to keep an eye on me.

I had never did anything violent to my ex girlfriend. Thought never even crossed my mind. She knew damn well I would never hit her or threaten her. Yet she set up the whole scenario to make me look like a potential abuser so that way I would be constrained to speak my mind. Just so she could selfishly minimize her mental discomfort the conniving bitch self justified bringing other people into the ordeal.

Anyway the bisexual girl on GAG like “well I spoke my mind when I broke up with my ex gf”. She’s telling me it’s “okay” for men to express their angry emotions to women. Well no shit. She’s a woman. She doesn’t have to worry about being unfairly labeled “threatening” like men do.

The sick irony is women actually often make up excuses for truly violent and physically abusive men. But then they also can use the “poor me I’m a woman and a victim” to unfairly label men who are not all like that. And people will always (initially) take a woman’s word over the man’s if it’s an abuse story. Women know that. So this is an example of how men get unfairly pigeon holed into being “too nice, timid, etc.”. Women can make up lies to constrain the guy just because they don’t want to be uncomfortable.

I hate that. Absolutely hate that.

[ManOnFire]

I 100% know what you're talking about. When me and that female friend were falling apart, I asked to talk to her in the early stages. She just texted saying she was out at a movie but that I could text her what I wanted to say. I told her that's okay, enjoy your movie we can talk later. I knew the only reason she wanted me to text was because she was at that movie with someone, and she wanted to show the other person what I would've said so that she could get some kind of support in how to respond to me.

Women love showing people their text messages if they're from someone they're having friction with, so that they can get support, and they won't show the entire text history because they know there are things they said that will show they're not innocent in the situation.

[blueonblack22]

I heard a good analogy the other day. This is from a real life story.

A woman was crying and yelling at her husband in public. People who couldn’t hear what they are saying had sympathy for the wife. However the people closer to the couple overheard their convo. The wife is calling the guy pathetic and an underachiever. How she is disappointed about where they are at in life. The husband is saying “I am working two jobs and I love you. I am trying to do everything I can to provide for you and make this work.”

Women always get the benefit of the doubt in these scenarios? Why? It’s because some of them stick around with true assholes and endure real abuse but they are “afraid” to leave (or they have some sort of sick mental attraction to the challenge of “changing him”). People always assume it’s the man’s fault. Sometimes it is. But when you dig in further there are just as many if not more (in modern times) horrible women out there. But men are given an unfair stereotype of suspicion.

[ManOnFire]

"(or they have some sort of sick mental attraction to the challenge of “changing him”)." - This is almost always the reason. Men who are put-together, know what they want, are intelligent, and serious about a relationship are not the ones today's western women want. Because men like this intimidate them and make them feel lower, because women have a need to feel morally superior to a man, so that's why they pick the lesser ones. It gives them a sense of being on a mission to fix some guy who ends up messing her up more than he already is.

No matter what the textbooks, media, whatever else want to say, you cannot convince me that women are significantly wiser, intuitive, mature, etc. than men. That shit sounds great on paper or in some university class, but does not apply to our real every day world in the least.

[blueonblack22]

To be fair not all women are like this. But we have both seen way too much crap over the years.

The biggest challenge men face is understanding if a woman is just shit testing (which is unfortunately biological) vs. if she has no respect for them. Boys are not being taught to look out for those kind of women. So they either treat women like crap OR they kiss women’s ass’s. But they aren’t being taught to both respect women and more importantly respect themselves. That’s the problem.

Anyway as for women self sabotaging themselves. They want “freedom” then fine. Let go right ahead. BUT give them no sympathy for their stupid choices. That bullshit has to stop.

Men also need to forgive themselves for their stupid choices but also never forget the lesson. Our egos torture us about being taken but it isn’t always our fault if we were set up to fail to begin with.

Forgive yourself if you acted weak but don’t make the same mistake twice. Guard your heart.

[FellowTraveler]

@blueonblack22 - Amen to that brother. If anybody wondered how CRAP starts, here is a GREAT example. She didn't even have the guts to face her own emotions so brought in a bunch of 'oh woe and misery IS me with this guy' friends who she promptly brought into her 'damaged brain' syndrome. Her loss man, and YOUR gain by not being with a wimp like her.

[blueonblack22]

@FellowTraveler true. But you know what there were a lot of things I wanted to say but I was constrained. Some of things she said to me at the end haunted me for years.

Long story but I think she cheated on me the week before we broke up. She had to fixate on the worst of me to make herself feel better about her own bullshit.

The thing is she was NOT at all like the stereotypical pos “modern” woman like we are familiar with when I dated her. That is why. was blindsided and devastated. However she had one problem when we dated: She didn’t have many friends. She was extremely introverted. So she started making new “friends” with the wrong crowd. The REALLY wrong crowd (far left feminist types). That bullshit definitely rubbed off on her and she let herself get brainwashed.

It’s just sad how impressionable women are. Men might take opinions from other men but we grow the f up and at some poinf make our own decisions whether they right or wrong. But women struggle to make their own hard decisions. They always need “advice” from others and sometimes he get bad advice. REALLY bad advice.

[Naruse]

Yeah black guys get this shit worst. Constantly having to make themselves look timid and meek so they don't get the police called on them. I think a lot of the issues come from the fact that the only guys who tend to engage with Feminist theory are weak. There are actually a lot of merits to Feminism if it were applied equally, unfortunately many Feminists see it as a contest, hence why guy's being raped by women or biases in the legal system that consequently effect men aren't emphasised. Surprise surprise women make as many vapid generalisations about men as vice versa.

[ManOnFire]

@Naruse I'm black and don't ever make myself look timid and weak to keep cops away.

[Naruse]

Do you get arrested a lot? lol But yeah some places are worse for it than others.

[blueonblack22]

@Naruse @ManOnFire all western guys EQUALLY deal with bs from women. They do try to exploit different stereotypes to their own advantage. For example given I’m white I notice women often assume I am going to pay for all their shit and be extra nice/tolerant given their is a lot of shade thrown at guys like me just for existing. A white girl can assume she is some sort of “intersectional” victim around white men because sexism = racism or some nonsense. However she is going to be more gun shy claiming discrimination when it’s a minority man she’s dealing with (regardless if her issue is right or wrong). But I’m a fair game in that scenario.

That’s not to say @Naruse you don’t have your own bs to deal with in society. But women will exploit whatever angle they can for their own selfish benefits and optics. But bringing race into this issue doesn’t offer more clarity when it comes to western women. It just further complicates it. Given the topic let’s stay on topic on this one please. Thanks.

[blueonblack22]

Also @Naruse I do see your point about women calling the cops on black men. Didn’t gloss over that. But white guys have to deal with other bs like I just mentioned above. Again they will look to squeeze whatever angle they can out of it.

[ManOnFire]

@blueonblack22 All of which are true facts. Especially on their intersectional victim mentality.

[blueonblack22]

@ManOnFire yep thanks. I find it best to debate and find resolutions for these dynamics with singular focus to the problem.

The bottom line is once a woman no longer has feelings for a man and/or no longer needs him for something else (e. g. money) he now EXPENDABLE regardless if he’s in the wrong or not. She won’t treat him fair just out of general principle.

It’s the same reason some women treat truly violent & abusive men much better then they deserve. It is only because they still have “feelings” for him and/or need him for other reasons (typically money). This dynamic exists no matter what race you are or the race of the woman you are dealing with.

To a certain extent women raised in more conservative communities may treat men more respectfully. But even then they are only treating men more better because if they don’t it’s bad optics for her among her community. It’s still about her and still about her image.

At a subconscious level women don’t nor ever have looked at men as “special” just for existing. They only value your agency i. e. what you can do for THEM. As unfair as that is (women can demand and expect to be treated well for just existing) all men need to accept that. If they don’t they will get the school of hard knocks until they see the ugly truth. Gender “equality” my ass. They won’t ever let go of this privilege. Most of them don’t even realize they have it.

Always be on your guard.

[Naruse]

I think it's worth bearing in mind there are a lot of shitty people out there who use their perception as a victim to fuck over other people. It's not just girls, they simply get a lot more opportunities to abuse social norms because guys see women as inherently helpless and vulnerable.

[TheGuyYouCrave]

Reiterate. Too long. Why men keep being weak?

Its because sites like these and propaganda keep telling men lies. Sit up for slavery. If this site deletes me, or this post, it is proof.

[TheGuyYouCrave]

not sit, *set* up for slavery.

[blueonblack22]

Everything comes down to one thing: impossible modern female expectations.

These women want you to be masculine or feminine AT THE RIGHT TIME. At the exact moment their “emotions” demand it. Women have always wished for this in men but now modern women expect it. However they used to have more tolerance and respect for a man who isn’t always point of they valued him for other reasons.

Men on the other-hand might quietly get turned off when a woman is acting too masculine in the wrong moment or irritated if they act overly feminine to the point they are an adolescent.

It’s rarely a quick dealbreaker for us though if we value the woman for other reasons.

[Anonymous]

Because they are weak. Used to be this girl next door type I used to simp after. She was kinda tomboyish growing up but she had dirty blonde hair, very skinny and when she hit puberty she got those big puppy fat tits some teens get, like bigger than should be for her frame. Anyway I simped away being her friend hoping knd day she would see me as more and heart was broke everytime she went off to get plowed by some older guy in high school or in college, even a guy in his 40s that she babysat for. Up until one day my older brother set me straight about her and women, i started lifting, boxing and judo and put my energy into school and earning. I stopped simping after her and started looking at other girls, getting the first girl was the hardest but after other girls saw me dating her they started considering me as dateable. That girl I used to simp after, when I graduated college she came back in the summer after dropping out with tattoos, a bad haircut and tubby, those tits had drooped and wanted to date me but I was already dating her younger sister who hasn't been passed around like her older sister.

[ManOnFire]

I have seen a LOT of those kinds of girls growing up. And they do almost always end up getting gross and letting themselves go, because they've had so much sex that they figure it doesn't matter cuz some guy out there will always want them.

Very glad you had an older brother to educate you on women. Some guys don't have that blessing. Luckily I'm the older one and taught my brother not to mess up like that again too.

[Carsongrettler]

We are weaker than women we need to accept this

[CallyKat89]

The way you talk about women is disgusting.

[Opinion Owner]

@CallyKat89 why because I don't simp and treat them as equals responsible for their own actions

[Minxxie]

@CallyKat89 Yeah he's got some extreme issues.

[Curmudgeon]

@CallyKat89 The way all too many women behave, contempuously towards a nice guy while letting rather awful men plow them, is also disgusting.

[ImalwaysrightOK]

@Minxxie @CallyKat89 men are saying what WE DON'T WANT and we have that right. by the way, both of you left out the customary "incel" or "misogynist" shaming the sisterhood usually uses.

[lirikri4]

I feel inspired now. Thank you.

[Peter_Penetrator]

Weak men are looking for reasons why they fail with women. After enough failures they blame women.


These weak men’s identities are tied to thinking if they found a good woman that this good woman will be the only answer to his happiness.


Once they find a good woman and because they sit around the house gaming, Pornhubing, and Onlyfansing rather than taking up hobbies that actually bring them happiness and give them a purpose, they become so damn afraid of losing that woman they smother her to the point of obsession.


Then after this good woman decides “I need space”, the man loses his shit.


Weak men like this can become physically violent towards that good woman and/or possessive.


I believe that a lot of these men need therapy and possibly mental health meds. They can easily fall victim to depression and withdraw from society.


If a man has sound mental health, and positive activities in their lives, a good woman will only ADD to all the other things in their lives.


This is what healthy minded women are looking for.


The term Alpha Male gets thrown around a lot and does get a bad rap.


A real Alpha Male is not your typical Andrew Tate type. Sorry Drew.


Real Alpha Males are not assholes.


Assholes are just that. If an asshole claims to be an Alpha, he isn’t Alpha.


A real Alpha Male doesn’t need to bring that attention to himself.


If a man has a LIFE, he doesn’t need to seek out a woman to begin with.


He should be living a life that allows him to eventually cross paths with that good woman. He can then express his interest towards her and if she becomes attracted to him the courtship can begin.


If a man with a strong mental mindset does end up in a relationship, he can set aside time in his schedule to meet the needs of that good woman. He will not neglect her nor lose appreciation towards her. And if he fathers children with her he stays present in family life.


But if he expresses interest in her and she doesn’t feel attracted to him, he can say to himself, fuck it.


Better luck next time because l got other shit in my life that requires my full attention.

[ManOnFire]

I agree, although I would say a woman can still be to blame even if the guy is weak. Like I was saying in the post, it's not always men's fault that they're weak, they are taught to be. Women often try to use/take advantage of them for it.

[Peter_Penetrator]

Very true.

[CallyKat89]

Let’s agree that women and men view relationships with each other differently.

Let’s disagree on your perception of women and interactions between the genders.

I hope that you view women as autonomous human beings with depth rather than vapid sex vending machines with high credit restrictions.

“Growing up, men are still being taught to behave like a gentleman with women, to be soft and romantic to appeal to them or as a form of respect in courtship or dating”

• I agree that most mothers want their sons to behave like gentlemen. However, this is not "simp behavior". Gentlemen are respectful to women. Gentlemen do not orbit and obsess over women's bodies. And what pray tell, is the alternative to hoping your son is a gentleman who treats others with respect? How else should young men be socialized to treat women?

“These guys do exactly these things thinking a woman will love them for it, when that doesn't always happen. This is what ends up making them look like simps or ‘nice guys.”

• I completely agree with this. And these men who enter relationships with women, platonic or otherwise, don’t deserve love which given the context, I assume means sex. I agree that some men consider kindness and respect a currency that can be exchanged for access to female bodies. Which frankly is disgusting narcissistic behavior.

“[A] lot of these guys end up in absolute mental and emotional down spirals when they find out some girl they liked was nowhere near the innocent, celibate maiden they pretended to be, or what he wanted to believe was the case.”

• Is the sum of a woman's her sexual experience? It is frightening how hyper-fixated you are on women’s sex lives. Everything in this take is just sex sex sex and how women “withhold sex”.

“[M]en will not take a stand for their own respect and demand it from a woman because they’re afraid she will get angry, hate him, and leave him… demanding respect is what actually makes a woman end up giving it,”

• @BlackBeauty90 made a fantastic point in her response. Demanding respect does not make a woman respect you. Respect is earned. I fear that in your perspective, a woman’s respect equals sex. Which it obviously, is not.

“…I am saying you need to learn to accept yourself and value your self-respect even if she doesn’t.”

• No, you really aren’t. But I agree with this sentiment. I think accepting yourself and looking introspectively is the first step to understanding yourself and knowing your worth.

[ManOnFire]

@CallyKat89 So you read the Take, but not actually with an open mind or to learn anything. You read it selectively and already decided how you were going to feel about it.

"Let’s disagree on your perception of women and interactions between the genders." - Because makes you uncomfortable.

"I agree that most mothers want their sons to behave like gentlemen. However, this is not "simp behavior"..." - I said it wasn't. I said those were good values, but women of today take advantage of that.

"It is frightening how hyper-fixated you are on women’s sex lives. Everything in this take is just sex sex sex and how women..." - The Take was about much more than sex, and you know that very well.

"No, you really aren’t. But I agree with this sentiment. I think accepting yourself..." - Yeah, I really am. You're wanting it to seem like I'm not. I don't say stuff I don't mean, especially on this site like most people do.

"BlackBeauty90 made a fantastic point in her response. Demanding respect does not make a woman respect you. Respect is earned..." - Respect being earned is a foolish concept, and you guys are only using it to support your narrative about men. If you were in a relationship with a man and you showed him love, kindness, and respect yet he didn't respect you and thought he could treat you however he wanted, would you say it's because you didn't earn respect? And what more do you think you would need to do to earn it from him?

[FellowTraveler]

@ManOnFire -nicely done by using her own 'logic' against her.

Also, I would like to point out that I endorse what 'BlackBeauty90' wrote. However BB90 asserted that she is heavily involved in community outreach and didn't 'bite' if you will on the contextual points that CallyCat89 espouses.

Oh BTW- DO write that book! When done, message me here and I will line up to buy a copy.

[CallyKat89]

@ManOnFire Let me correct you. I’m not uncomfortable. I’m disgusted. Believe it or not, the world is not as simple as you proclaim it to be. The way that you view the world is narrow, shallow, and frankly childish. Your take is in fact about sex and how men aren’t getting it from “pure maidens.” You have said nothing to refute this and everything to support this.

Does it make you uncomfortable to see women disagree with you? All you said in your response to me was a childish “nuh-unh”. And hilariously, "No you."

You didn’t address any of my points or questions. But I’ll address yours. You asked me a hypothetical what-if question. "What if I’m in a relationship with a man and he does not respect me"? It’s simple. I leave. You don’t and can’t force someone to respect you. I am not going to work to “earn” his respect. If my partner does not respect me, then he does not love me nor does he deserve my company. It’s simple. Relationships are about communication and compromise. If my partner and I are not on the same page, and he is treating me with constant disrespect, it's time for us to go our separate ways.

I can’t comprehend your fixation on respect. Is it because you hunt for women out of your league and you’re tired of rejection? Your ego reads as rather small here.

@FellowTraveler By logic did you mean formatting? I also noticed how you didn’t have an opinion of your own on my points and questions. Interesting.

[ManOnFire]

@CallyKat89 You are not correcting me on anything. You are mending the situation to suit you.

"It’s simple. I leave. You don’t and can’t force someone to respect you. I am not going to work to “earn” his respect. If my partner does not respect me, then he does not love me nor does he deserve my company."
- So that is my point, and what I basically told men in the Take, but you are trying to twist it how you want. So respect is not earned.

[CallyKat89]

Hi, it’s me again. I am correcting you. Honestly, you can’t just “nuh-uh” again and expect me not to giggle while I type this out to you. You and I both know that wasn’t your point. The title of your rambling take is “Why Men Keep Being Weak with Women.” You covered a litany of things in your take. Trust me, I’ve read it. You, however, funnily enough, might need a refresher. Respect, by your own account, is something demanded. This completely contradicts the point I made that you now agree with me on. I’m confused. Which is it? Has your opinion changed since posting your take?

I’ve also noticed how you pick and choose what to address in my responses. I’m not twisting anything. Pot, meet kettle. I was very clear in my response to you about how respect is earned. The parameters of your hypothetical were that there was no respect period. You earn respect as people get to know you. If you are in a relationship without respect, that respect was never earned in the first place. This does not mean that respect isn’t earned. So no. That is again, not what you have told men in your take.

And another thing. I am quoting you back to you. How is that twisting your words? If anything, you have been twisting what I have been saying to suit your odd and rather simple worldview. I have clearly told you what you have said and subsequently given you my thoughts. Why does reading your own words cause such a visceral reaction?

As I stated above, you have chosen to fixate on what are probably the easiest points I addressed to defend. I made others. I even asked you questions. If you do intend to respond, please look at those. Any more on this line of thinking would be re-tracing our steps.

[CallyKat89]

@ManOnFire

[wolfcat87]

It sounds like you don't understand women or relationships... Which explains why you're obsessing over what other people are doing with each other. Weak

[FellowTraveler]

Cool, I agree with most of what is written above, but not all.

There is one item that I do take exceptional issue with. I AM one of those NICE GUYS! It has gotten me dumped more times than not, but I WILL NOT change my operating system to be more 'attractive' to a woman. When truly 'nice guy' behavior is equivocal to 'disgusting narcissistic behavior' with the tag line that 'some men (NOTE: I am assuming NOT ALL) consider kindness and respect a currency that can be exchanged for access to female bodies'; let us just say that I am appalled by that equivocation. Said another way, it SEEMS that 'being nice' or 'being a nice guy' is somehow BAD!

Let me take this slightly farther afield. 1. If I truly treat you with kindness, and respect you for who you truly are, you will find issue with that/my behavior. 2. You might consider this 'reductio ad absurdum', but if I DO NOT treat you with kindness, and respect you for who you truly are, you will find issue with that/my behavior. 3. Going slightly further afield - No matter what behavior I exhibit, you will eventually find something to have ISSUE with - in your opinion - as it regards myself.

I am NOT looking for nor using 'being nice (nice guy)' with an anticipation that it will provide 'access' to your flesh. 'Nice guy' behavior comes natural to me since I was raised that way. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

I am looking for 'access' to YOUR FEMALE MIND, the most incredible sexy organ ever made, and by the looks of this diatribe - an increasingly nebulous and difficult enigma to grasp.

So there you have it -Darned if you do, darned if you don't. My dear, this is PRECISELY what men are taught by WOMENS behavior. Oh and yes, it's be proven by Alfred Kinsey that women withhold sex for the power it exudes. Trust me, men have means of overcoming that obstacle.

WOW- you REALLY got my juices flowing and I am STOKED - THANKS!

[Joshydavid25]

"I completely agree with this. And these men who enter relationships with women, platonic or otherwise, don’t deserve love which given the context, I assume means sex. I agree that some men consider kindness and respect a currency that can be exchanged for access to female bodies. Which frankly is disgusting narcissistic behavior."

Why did you assume that a guy who becomes fixated on a girl is mainly looking to exchange good acts for sex? That's not all men want believe it or not.. Maybe he is hoping that she notices him for the"nice guy" he is and allows him to court her.. To be the love she is looking for. Maybe he likes her for more than sex..

[FellowTraveler]

@Joshydavid25 - Thank You, Thank You - I see that we understand each other.

[ImalwaysrightOK]

@CallyKat89 you want to know what's "disgusting and narcissistic", a woman using her sexuality and her body to manipulate men into providing her with things that she wouldn't be able to obtain from a guy if she were a man in the same situation. Most women use their sexual attractiveness to coerce and manipulate men.

[HiveBee]

Men are wired to desire women like that. Men are wired to chase. Women are wired to pick from the best.

It is just the nature of our biology.

As a man, you have to recognize the role of the woman and try to emulate it.

The woman's perspective is one of abundance. She is going to have plenty of men to pick from.

She constantly has desperate and needy men throwing themselves at her.

She's more likely to be interested in the man who has an abundance mindset like her. Who isn't riddled with anxiety over the success of an approach or not.

Let's imagine all men become confident and abundance mindset again. We'll women will sort by looks or money.

But as of right now, the fact that most men are desperate and needy, as a man, having an abundance mindset right now is the best path to success.

A lot of dudes are pathetic. It doesn't take much to look better than them.

Not being insecure is very important.

The problem is women have so many men throwing themselves at them, that women get to learn very early on not to fuck with certain types of guys.

Insecure guys who lack confidence. If as a man you dated 100 women you would develop a similar level of disgust for an insecure woman with no confidence.

They're icky. They're annoying. They're clingy. They need constant reassurance. They are always in edge because they don't want to lose you.

It's the worst. You don't want that shit.

I know women. I know tons of them. Even the hot ones who only fuck with the top tier men are angry and upset because those men are INSECURE. These hot guys are insecure as fuck because they believe their girl will leave them for some other hot guy.

Women are DYING to find a secure man. They're dumping hot guy left and right because these dudes are falling in love too fast and becoming clingy.

They act like they're players who get around. But I have heard the stories women tell. The players are simps too.

All men are simps for women. But if you are secure then you're not a simp anymore and boom, your attractiveness is multiplied greatly.

And being secure makes you confident. It's rhe same thing. It is a lack of negative emotions about your perceived flaws which you think will cause your partner to leave you for someone better.

No it is the insecurity which is bred by all that shit you believe that makes her leave you.

[Nikolai536]

I think forming relationships nowadays has become somewhat overly complicated. I would argue that our pressures and stresses in society are partially if not completely responsible for this over complication, thanks to media and cultural norms I guess. However, I never did a deep dive into the topic myself.



I would consider myself to be a kind and clingy guy when it comes to a girl or woman that I am really attracted to, especially at the beginning when I am not sure if I can trust her (too many bad experiences being “played” with).


I do mean well of course but it sometimes gets lost in translation.


My rule is treat someone how you want to be treated and if you have the matching level of respect and you agree to it than it will probably work out.


I don’t think it’s wrong to show some vulnerability to women at the beginning. For sure, everyone is responsible for their own emotional baggage and insecurities, but confiding to someone is important to deepen a relationship. Being respectful and honest about your strengths and weaknesses is healthy to become more intimate.


I know that when I am really attracted to a woman 👩 I get quite nervous and shy, however I take my shot and hope for the best (cue to the song 🎶 “Hit me with your best shot” 😅).


I also read somewhere that when it comes to how many men message women on a daily basis, the statistics indicates that women receive between 4-5 times more messages/requests/flirts and so on. It’s way too much, it’s overwhelming. I know I cannot handle it myself. I would probably grow cold or shut down emotionally. I blame dating apps and specific social media for the huge influx of messages to women.


We live in a society where we have too many options to make wise decisions and we don’t know how to filter nor choose.


I will mention that it is never fun to have one’s feelings being played with whence vulnerable (men or women alike) in the name of malice. It’s very painful and I find it very disrespectful but you grow stronger with every experience.


Just let everyone be themselves. As long as your are not intentionally hurting someone, I don’t think being vulnerable should be an issue.


We all have our strengths and weaknesses and we are all unique just like every tree 🌲 on Earth 🌍.


That being said, I never invested hours on ends to understand how to date someone. I just stick to being my authentic self, scars, cuts and bruises and express my interests, intentions and feelings in the best way I know. Someone will eventually get my neediness and dorkyness and it’s true for others too.

[Nikolai536]

*nerdiness

[VKN724]

I mean, I'm not necessarily against what you wrote but you seem like you've been through some harsh shit that has affected your perceptions on women as a whole. I'd argue you've now weaponized your own sexuality because you perceive women to be doing the same with their own sexuality to men's detriment. To be honest, I hear this kind of stuff all the time from other guys, but a hole in all this is we are turning ourselves into cold-hearted machines because we fell for girls that were obvious hoes but we refused to see the signs at the time because our dicks were doing the thinking.

I just don't see how your perspective could operate in a way that allows you to ever let your guard down. There are guys out there who are in a permanent vigilant state from war and commit suicide and mass shootings and I guess we're going to write these guys off as weak-minded or not sufficient enough for the human race while we're all up writing online about how the opposite sex who we have a genetic need to sexually reproduce with actually just wants us degraded to the point of trauma unconsciously. Not only that but to fight back in this sex war, we now can't be sensitive with a woman and feel emotions around them because they will instinctively recognize it as a weakness and use it against us. You wouldn't teach this kind of thing to a kid who just hit puberty asking how to make his crush like him, would you? Or maybe you would, I guess I don't know.

I'm not saying I haven't experienced the things you've talked about in your post, but I'm not sure if we are handling it in a way that will benefit future generations. This kind of black-pill philosophy thing going on kind of kills your genuine sense of romance because essentially the black-pill to this was that feeling romance was a lie to begin with and it has always been about sexual market strategies. I mean I just don't see how you can really enjoy living this ideology out in the real world knowing you've had to deaden the part of you that really wants to like a woman for who she is. But I guess maybe you have this kind of hardened soldier ideal self-image because that appears to be the peak of masculinity in a lot of dudes' minds.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5gVN3zXT0HY

I guess I see this as what men are experiencing nowadays and to be honest, it seems like the best strategy we have come up with is to become colder than the coldest woman we can imagine because we realize the less we care, the less they can hurt us.

I just don't know if you're going to like where it leads us.

[Anonymous]

From your description of the situation in the beginning, it seems like you're reading too much into what those two people are doing from afar and assuming you know their motives and story.

Slightly nitpicky, but something I don't really like here is the use of words like "pathetic" to describe the man in these situations where he generally seems to care more about a woman than she cares for him. Pitiful is a word that's a less condescending and virtue signally towards someone who's just well-meaning but being taken advantage of. Pitiful implies low status but there is some empathy being offered. Pathetic just implies inferiority with no empathy and the low status is deserved. Seems small but the reason I point that out is because one thing that's often missing in discourse about men is genuine sympathy and genuine empathy for men and male problems. I don't think genuine change (not necessarily talking about individuals but rather the zeitgeist) is possible without that, otherwise we're all just blowing smoke, or virtue signaling, or trying to score points for intrasexual competition or something. So, when I see certain language like that it really bothers me.

To the argument, I appreciate the general idea here. It's not quite MGTOW, but you kind of have to go to a similar place at least with women who cross your personal boundaries as far as the respect you ask them to give you. Though, this is advice that is not exclusive to dealing with women which probably makes it even less MGTOW. Obviously, you can't ask them to pretend you're LeBron James or some celebrity like that when it comes to the respect you ask that they give you. It's more about asking them to respect your unquantifiable value as a human being if they are going to have any kind of relationship with you. And if they start objectifying you as a human doing instead of treating you as a human being, then they are at the very least, not showing that they respect you as a human being.

[ManOnFire]

"From your description of the situation in the beginning, it seems like you're reading too much into what those two people are doing from afar and assuming you know their motives and story."
- I know both of them, and I know more about her than him, and I know for a fact that he was being simpy. The way he behaved is the same way I've seen a lot of other dudes behave who like a girl.

My point is basically this: if you're in any relationship with a woman who doesn't respect you, or sees you as an easy pushover, and you make it clear that she should be respecting you, and she doesn't, walk away.

[Opinion Owner]

I understood the point. It's just that the analysis was about the person you know less about, not the person you just said that you understand more about.

[Opinion Owner]

If you've initiated a private conversation with him about it the fair. Otherwise, I was just saying that this looks like projection or assumption. But it's fair if you say that this is just a hunch you have and seeing that guy behave that way around a woman you know to be some kind of snake activated you to write this take to help people who were in your position, whether that guy was truly in such a psychological position or not.

[Opinion Owner]

then fair*

[ManOnFire]

I know more about him than you do.

[Opinion Owner]

*even if you hypothetically know the woman to be a snake* not that you feel that way about her or to sound mean.
"I know more about him than you do."
Ok. that doesn't really change what I was nitpicking

[BlackBeauty90]

"Demanding respect gets you respect"

No demanding respect gets you nothing. The old saying, after all, is respect is earned never given and people that doesn't understand this will never be respected. Ever.

In the workforce as an extremely easy example of this... bosses who demand respect are never respected. Ever. The only person who respects these sorts of bosses are the losers who'd never achieve anything in life without licking someone else's boots.

On the other hand the average employee wouldn't care if said boss ran through the office with their hair on fire, that's how much contempt they harbour towards someone who thinks they deserve respect but do nothing to earn it.

.

And the same applies in relationships.

The average man who demands respect but does nothing to deserve it is usually a douchebag. He oftentimes attracts women who have little to no self respect, little to no standards, little to no self worth --- or the losers among women nobody else wants.

[ManOnFire]

What about you? Are you earning any respect?

[BlackBeauty90]

@ManOnFire I don't sleep around, only been with 2 men in my life. In real life treat people fairly unless they are nasty attitudes, etc then they simply get their attitudes returned to them. Most douchebags don't like that.

I own a medical consulting business, I do volunteer work, I do rescue work, I do work with orphaned children and youth groups, I work with animal shelters, and last year I was also approached by a Specialty Group to go overseas and do medical care.

What do you do to earn respect?

[ManOnFire]

I'm talking about in your relationships. Are you earning respect with men? Your personal successes with your job and whatnot are not indicators of respect. I'm talking about with personal relationships.

Me. I show respect automatically because it's what you're supposed to do, until someone gives me a reason to stop giving it.

[FellowTraveler]

@BlackBeauty90 - 'What do you do to earn respect?'. Answer: in my opinion - precisely what you are doing. SET boundaries and STICK with them. Don't permit your morals to be dictated by someone else. In that manner you not only have the respect of others, but respect yourself. And that is the most important thing you can have.

[ManOnFire]

@BlackBeauty90 My question still stands: Are you earning respect with men?

[BlackBeauty90]

@ManOnFire - you failed to comprehend the fact that I've only been with 2 men. That alone, having standards, causes men to respect women. Men do not respect women that don't respect themselves just as how women don't respect men who don't respect themselves.

[BlackBeauty90]

@ManOnFire - my delayed response was in, I have a job. Do you? Besides you've not answered my question - what do you do to earn respect. You probably don't do much when all you have ever been able to do is harass others on this site.

[ManOnFire]

@BlackBeauty90 Checky response again the answer is there.

I don't harass folks on here. But I know you do.

[Peter_Penetrator]

Get her. Get her good, MoF. Some folks are only happy when harassing others!!!

[ManOnFire]

@Peter_Penetrator Dude, this girl was a literal a. sshole to a guy on here who once said in an answer that he looks after his parents in a nursing home, and she called him all manner of ugly things, that he was broke and pathetic. For caring after his own parents! That in itself told me what kind of person she is.

[Peter_Penetrator]

That is just wrong. Sounds racial too me.

[ManOnFire]

@Peter_Penetrator Might've been, who knows.

[BlackBeauty90]

@ManOnFire - ROFL. You are a complete moron & an asshat at that.

[BlackBeauty90]

@ManOnFire - I don't harass folks on here. But I know you do. ---- I only "harass" the trash & trust me there's plenty of trash on this site.

[femalepretzelmaker]

a lot of men are not gentlemen they are simply men that weren't raised properly or raised without a father or perhaps a bitter single mother.
Therefore there are many types of men as there are women and we as a species need to find a way to mend that or just deal with it in our own way.

[wolfcat87]

Interestingly, most men don't care how many partners a woman has had. They care about how she makes them feel.

[BlackBeauty90]

@wolfcat87 and that's a bunch of b******* but then what to expect when this form is overwhelmingly populated by s****

[wolfcat87]

If a slut is someone who's been with her husband for 16 years, then pretty much every woman is one including you. Imagine assuming so much about others and being wrong every time... and bitter, angry, and judgmental to boot. Now, those are traits men actually hate. Most could care less about body count, even the religious boys usually don't care. The only men I've known of who care are eastern Europeans around Bulgaria. They tend to think women belong barefoot and in the kitchen while they can do what they want. You'd fit right in, oh wait, they don't want you either... And, their educated men have been proven by studies to also not care about body counts. Only the less educated men there do.

Ask 1,000 men at what point do they think a woman is slutty, and most will say when her behavior makes her appear slutty. A woman with 2 partners can appear slutty, and a woman with 50 can appear classier and more desirable. Even for the women who appear slutty, there are a large number of men happy to take them. Some men like experienced women who can do far more in bed.

Out of the men who cared about inexperience, that only applied to virgins. Once you've had sex, you already have a body count and the appeal is gone. Those men didn't even say they would only marry a woman who was a virgin. Their interest in virgins ranged from a fetish of defiling someone innocent, to religious reasons, to wanting someone easier to control or something no other guy had. All of those men except a few in the religious (mormon) category were still having sex with women who'd been with multiple men.

So, imagining that whether men respect women based on body count means you really don't understand men. Men respect any women who bring value to their lives. It's really that simple. Whether that's money, intelligence, good food, great sex, or a whole list of other perks, that is how women earn the respect of men.

[Minxxie]

Kindness and sweetness are what made me fall for my boyfriend it's when he acts aloof that I get bored and sad. His gentleness and soft loving side are what made him win out over all the other men I had pursuing me, I couldn't resist it.

So if he does act aloof I pout a little and he's like "Oh my princess! My angel!" and then he spoils me which makes me want him really bad... and then we are both happy!

He knew I was inexperienced when he approached me but that doesn't mean I don't know what I want. I hate "bad boys" and I hate mind games. If he's vulnerable and loving and treats me really well I return that energy because I can let my guard down.

Your method will only lead to toxicity, bitterness, and will train the woman to feel like she has to act extra masculine around you to protect herself... and then you will hate her for it.

Meanwhile, I feel safe and loved enough around my boyfriend to be soft and sweet for him, with your mindset, you will never experience that. Relationships are not about a constant power struggle where you hate your partner because she's a woman and you always have to have the upper hand, they are about mutual appreciation.

LOG OFF AND GO TO THERAPY.

[ManOnFire]

@Minxxie What is my method that you speak of? Where am I talking about anyone trying to get an upper hand?

[lirikri4]

There's like 3 of you on this planet who like guys like this. Most girls like super masculine manly men instead of guys like your boyfriend.
I consider myself to be like that. While I don't plan on quitting being respectful and nice I don't expect girls to like me either. I'm on my way of accepting that no one will ever love me, let alone desire me.

[SotiCoto]

Nothing makes me quite as ashamed to have a Y chromosome as guys believing that the only alternative to being a passive wet noodle is to be a testosterone-poisoned gym-gorilla who believes they have to dominate women into subservience.

And on the flipside, women who believe that all male complaints come from the belief that they're entitled to sex are also utterly deluded. Most of it likely comes from them flirting with guys in order to try and manipulate them, then getting all affronted when the guys assume this is working towards something other than exploitation.

It doesn't have to be a war. The other gender is not an enemy to be defeated. Being "strong" is just as useless as being "weak". Personally I've found if you have the willingness to have ordinary discussions about ordinary things without being particularly invested in whether the other party is sticking around or not, then if anything else is going to happen it will do so on its own in due course.

[ManOnFire]

Did I say anything in the post about being gym driven and needing to force women into subservience?

[SotiCoto]

Not strictly, no. But this isn't entirely about you. I've been scrutinising the other comments.

[Exterminatore]

Feminists wanted men they could control so over the last 60 years they have been busy cutting the balls off men and making them be more like women through propaganda, lies and indoctrination.


Now lots of men complain the girls are basically chasing like 20% of men and ignoring the rest. Riding the c*ck carousel as I’ve heard it said. Well yeah. Duh. It’s hard for them to be attracted to someone they have 0 respect for.


I also hope the women are happy now that the average guy is a little bitch. They wanted to make them into sissies and are now finding only like 20% of them are datable. Congrats to the feminists and women in general. I hope you’re all happy with your limited options in dating.

[ManOnFire]

Feminism has definitely played a huge part in this, and I wanted to get into that but the Take was already long enough.

[Exterminatore]

No worries. I gave the Clif notes for you, lol

[FellowTraveler]

@exterminatore- YOUR ARE CORRECT! The rise of the 'National Organization of Women (NOW)' coincided with a marked and massive shift in 'mating objectives'. Gloria Steinem and others of her ilk convinced women that feminists needed men that would acquiescence to HER needs. This is a form of dominance, and 'NOW' IS an anti-dominance movement.

On Gloria Steinem - she SWORE OFF marriage by wearing a t-shirt that read 'A woman without a man is like a fish with out a bicycle'. Guess who got married late in life! Yeap - Steinem. What a bloody hypocrite, and yet her misguided bleech still resonates with women.

[FellowTraveler]

"NOW" is a form of anti-dominance movement for WOMEN!

[Exterminatore]

@fellow

I agree with that. Not that I don’t think a husband should be concerned with his wife’s needs. However, what is defined as a need and a want are completely different. I also think in a marriage the husband is to be the leader in the home.

Feminism, at least 2nd wave was designed to make women independent at the expense of men. Prior to 2nd wave feminism most women were housewives in America. This meant they were financially dependent on their husbands. Yet, they wanted power. So through things like no fault divorce, feminists influenced law makers to ensure women could leave their husbands, because…you know, they’re all controlling pigs and abusers, and make the ex husband provide financial security for his ex wife. Meanwhile she receives financial support, and he receives no benefit from her any longer.

This is why they wanted equal pay for women and encouraged them to have a career. Telling them: “you can have it all” meaning the house, kids, career etc. So they got women working and competing for jobs with men, and got them acting like men and doing a poor job at it. Apparently they were so oppressed tending homes that it was better to go weld, work in factories, be lumber jacks, and other jobs requiring strength and stamina. This also gave them extra income, and the claim was “equal work for equal pay” yet we see they often do not do equal work to men, particularly in blue collar jobs, where they often don’t have the strength and stamina to do the job men do. So they don’t work equally and get the same pay.

[Exterminatore]

@fellow

They were also jealous of men. They thought men were so honored and glorified and dignified having a career. They wanted to be just as distinguished as they thought men were. Hahaha. Little did they realize their husbands cart themselves off to work and are chained to a cubical for the next 30 years, or have to do hard labor all day just to pay for the wife, and kids, and house, and every other expense in life. They have to deal with rush hour traffic to and from work. They have to go to a job where they want to strangle their boss and 80% of the other people who work there. Running the rat race all day long.

Women never considered this and just felt they were so abused and had it so rough being housewives, getting to set their own schedules each day, working in a climate controlled environment, and not having a boss breathing down your neck ever second of the day. Yes, this was near concentration camp conditions in their minds.

Good. I hope they’re glad and none of us should help them in any way. Let them enjoy the full measure of equality. Let them get the full equality experience by not helping them with things in the workplace that a man would normally do by himself. If it’s heavy, make her lift it herself. There is no more man and woman’s work, so let them fail at being men.

[FellowTraveler]

Nicely done. I would further add that women complain more about work than the men do. Ironic isn't it, YOU WOMEN wanted this, and now that you tasted of what you wanted, now you DON'T WANT IT! Well you are locked into it now and can't get out. Almost sounds like George Orwells' 'Animal Farm', sold into a worse kind of servitude.

[ManOnFire]

@FellowTraveler That’s true. Very good point.

[Exterminatore]

@fellow.

Quite true.

[Anonymous]

I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I think you can simplify it even further. The fundamental flaw that most guys seem to make is not recognizing that there are two distinct stages of attraction: 1) first you must be SEXUALLY appealing to woman, 2) then--AND ONLY THEN--you can be attractive to a woman in the relationship sense. In other words, all of those "great boyfriend" qualities you may have (e. g., being a gentleman) are fantastic ONCE YOU'VE ALREADY GENERATED SEXUAL ATTRACTION. But before that point THEY ARE USELESS!

So basically, you've got to be a guy a girl wants to fuck BEFORE you put forward your relationship qualities. Nothing, but NOTHING is worse than watching a guy try to "win a girl over" by displaying his boyfriend qualities when his very presence makes her pussy drier than the Sahara. That's definitely what's going on in that story you told at the beginning of this take!

[ManOnFire]

I think I would agree with you, yeah.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah, I was 110% guilty of this as well at one point. I think at least one problem is no one wants to talk about how to be sexually more attractive, so they default to talking about how to be better relationship material. Forgetting that before you get into a relationship you must first attract someone.

But I'm not going to blame "society" for not teaching this lesson. (Which it doesn't: see every Rom-Com movie ever written where some doofus actually DOES win a girl over by displaying "good boyfriend" qualities.) This is really something that should've been obvious through even 10 minutes of honest reflection. In particular, if I think about what I find attractive in a girl, would I be "won over" by some fat, hairy chick with bad skin because she displays all kinds of "good girlfriend" qualities? Of course not. Because she's not sexually attractive. I think the problem I had was taking WAAAAYYYYY too long to sort out what women WERE sexually attracted to. But that too should've been a very solvable empirical problem.

Oh yeah--that brings me to the next HUGE mistake I'm pretty sure I was guilty of and I KNOW others make all the time: expecting to get ANY useful insight by asking girls what they like. This isn't a shot at girls--you don't learn much about ANYONE by asking them questions--you need to OBSERVE THEIR CHOICES IN REAL WORLD SITUATIONS. This is, of course, the cornerstone of GOOD social sciences work, which I'd learn about more formally later on, but holy shit does it apply to the attraction game!

[ManOnFire]

Absolutely! Terrific point on the rom-coms and especially "you don't learn much about ANYONE by asking them questions--you need to OBSERVE THEIR CHOICES IN REAL WORLD SITUATIONS." I am constantly telling guys to ALWAYS pay attention to what women do and how they behave much more than what they say, because they often say one thing but do another. The way a woman behaves tells a LOT about her, and especially if you take note of how she does it with you vs. with someone else. And this is crucial because women also tend to wear different faces with different people and more importantly they do this with men.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah--totally agree. And just to dial down the level of controversy on that statement, I'd say it applies to ANYONE. You need to give people ACTUAL choices and see what they choose. It's like if you ask people "hey do you care about the environment?" of COURSE they'll say "oh yes! It's VERY important to me!" Then you ask them, would you be willing to pay 10% more for this or that good to buy the environmentally sound version you'll find a TON of people go with the cheaper option. It's the same thing with asking people about their dating preferences rather than watching what they do.

Guys will learn 10x more from asking OTHER GUYS who are SUCCESSFUL at dating what works for them rather than asking girls what's successful ON them.

[wolfcat87]

This is about as valid as anyone crying about what other people do in the bedroom or in their relationships. It always comes from people who are so miserable that they feel the obsessive need to pick apart what must be wrong with others rather than engage in a bit of introspection to see why they are miserable and what they can improve about themselves. There's no one size fits all for what men or women want or how they should be. She's clearly enjoying his company and not yours. You can't judge the party, because you can't even get in. That says it all.

[ManOnFire]

Lmfao. I'm sorry the message hurt your feelings.

[wolfcat87]

Ha ha, not sure how you got to that in your head when it wasn't even about women. Delulu

[ManOnFire]

Because you are probably one of the types of women I talked about. If you're not and you're confident and you're actually happy with weak or simpy men, you would not react the way you did.

[wolfcat87]

Again, jumping to a lot of conclusions with no facts to back it. What's really weak is crying so much because someone disagreed with you and pointed out your flaws.

Like I said, I didn't see your post as being directed at women at all, so I'm not even sure of what you think I'm supposed to be offended about... Do you not even know what you wrote about? Was it meant for women and you just wrote it badly? People can disagree with someone saying something dumb even if it has nothing to do with them. If you say 2+2=5, and I say you're wrong, then does that equal me being math? Never heard anything so unintelligent in my life.

[ManOnFire]

When someone attacks the messenger it shows that something in the message hit something inside you, even if it's not supposed to. I can't figure out why a woman would be so upset about a Take that is directed towards weak men, unless something in that Take has made her see something about her own self.

I could care less who disagrees with me on this site, that doesn't matter to me. But the type of response a person gives you says a lot. And your middling explanation isn't convincing.

[wolfcat87]

Ahhh, projection. "When someone attacks the messenger it shows that something in the message hit something inside you, even if it's not supposed to. " Thanks for explaining what you're on about in your long winded whines over me disagreeing with your silly opinion about random strangers...

[Talon364df]

It's not new at all. We are taught to be nice and gentle with women. We are not taught women like a balance of both A and B types. Let's face it, women are walking contradictions. That's ok. I don't know what women are taught, but we like you just exactly the way you are... as frustrating as that can be. We don't want you to change. We aren't trying to stop you from playing football in the NFL because you don't have the ability... we don't don't want you to get killed. Total digress. Sorry.

What we need to pass on (some of us learned very late in the game), is that men and women are more similar in what they want from the opposite sex, than the they differ. Ladies read one of those polls that asks what qualities you look for in a man... we want the same thing... but with breasts (no abs, ew, stop that).. that's important.

[ManOnFire]

Right! "We are not taught women like a balance of both A and B types." - This is what I was trying to explain but you put it best.

[TalkWithoutSpeaking]

Meeeh. I see your point, I really do. But it all boils down to unconscious trauma manifesting.

The concept and name of the trauma is toxic shame. It's the root of people pleasing, co-dependency, addictions, etc.

Pretty brutal, if I may add.

[ManOnFire]

You have a point there too.

[ImHere22]

I didn't read your long-ass post because:

1) I can tell from the title that you're an idiot

2) You've written the equivalent of a New Yorker article using a smack-talking attitude

3) It's clearly evident you're single and you're trying to blame anyone other than yourself for any faults which are actually yours and yours alone to control

4) You're a weak, little, scared and fragile child, trying to feel like a Big Boy by making something up with no real reason other than to stir the pot

[ManOnFire]

I can tell from reading your useless comment that:

1) You are most likely NOT a guy.
2) If you are - but I doubt it - you are angry because you are exactly the weak kinda guy I'm talking about.
3) Not only are you single but probably still a virgin as well.
4) You must've read my long-ass post in order to think it's "smack-talking."

Get outta here and go back to your mom's basement.

[lorenzomichael]

Because there pussys that's why. I've left hot chicks at the restaurant after the meal was over. I've excused mysef to the bathroom then bounced because she had a fucked up attitude. Not giving a fuck about her. Remember this, nice guys get ran over. Only you know your worth don't let some chick determine that for you. When there are chicks around looking for dick, come off as a nice, funny, charming, asshole girls are attracted to that. It's one of our qualitys. But you got to know when and how to use it. Being a dick is not one. So never be be a dick.

[Sharkstealth]

Single mother households teach a guy to be feminine. It also teaches them to be more stubborn and to pretend that they know things they don't. I know because I work with three that are. Extremely stubborn and not very bright and have almost zero masculine traits. Bake cakes really well but can't change or fill oil in their car.

[Sharkstealth]

These guys have children and 2 are married.

[ManOnFire]

This is very true and why those sons grow up in life being late in their personal development. It's not their fault of course, but it's why they need influences other than just their mom.

[ManOnFire]

Then they must be doing SOMEthing right lol. Assuming their wives are really happy.

[Sharkstealth]

Yes they are feminine and they have more in common.

[82lynx]

Considering what “the fairer sex” has put me through already, I’ve concluded that if one finds them attractive it’s best to keep your mouth shut and don’t let them know, because they’re most likely to use it as a weapon against you. Don’t show them any favour at all. Acting aloof will likely get them hot, but just try to ignore it. That’s how it is with most Western women anyway; bunch of mean, sneaky, tight-ass witches.

One who was particularly cruel to me in high school ended up with MS. Can’t say I feel any sympathy toward her.

[ManOnFire]

Can understand.

[Likethesky]

Good take!!!

One thing I think everyone should know that people are mostly indifferent to things that don’t affect them. So yeah guys are don’t really care about the problems women face looking for partners and at the same time women don’t care about Guy problems.

[ManOnFire]

Very true. Although one difference is that women of today actually do want men to struggle with dating or getting sex, and they take pleasure in men who are suffering with lack of confidence or feeling powerless about the dating pool.

[Likethesky]

Yes it’s a sad situation nowadays.

I noticed girls who do this have a history of dating “Bad boy” type, ignoring all the red flags thinking they can tie down a guy who only prioritises sex and switching bodies every week and vent down their anger on the rest of the male population.

All the anger and frustration for the average man but let a certain type do whatever he want with them.

[fuddly]

Gosh that was like an essay!

I agree in general although i didn't read it all.

The bit i agree with is mothers can make their sons slightly afraid of women.

My Dad didn't say much but my mother was full of opinions! We were brought up to have this enormous respect for women, that women were these soft delicate creatures which was not helpful for getting "intimate" let's say.

Anyway, years later, things have worked out okay for me. No complaints.

[ManOnFire]

Thanks for getting it. I try not to let my Takes get too long but in the end I always feel that I really can't help someone understand the full gist of the situation without going into a little depth.