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Men should have a say in their child's abortion (Page 3)
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I think its important that men have a voice in the discussion and that the girl should talk with the man before anything happens, but honestly, if the girl doesn't want the baby, she should not be forced to have one. If the guy really cares that much, then he should find a girl who wants one. I mean, think about it this way, ever since she was like 13 her body has been giving her shit to deal with, both physically ( pain, headaches) and mentally too ( low self esteem, lots of girls have that). Now on top of it, she could be forced into a life ( both giving birth AND then having to take care of the baby for the next 18 years of her life) yeah, its her decision. And think of the toll it has on her body. Just ewwww. Honestly, I really dont like babies. Their gross, make too much noise, wayyyy too dependent, and kind of remind me of the movie Alien (when it bursts through the guys stomach). If the guy wants a baby, then find someone who wants it too. Thats my take on it
Okay, this question grosses me out. No one as the right to kill another human being. Ever.
I am pretty casual about sex with my boyfriend, and have done it A LOT, despite not being married, but there is no chance in hell that if I get pregnant I would kill the child.
That's my child, and mothers who end the lives don't deserve to be mothers. Growing up in a moderate Christian home was a blessing. It taught me morality without being too prudent.
We can choose love over hate as a society.
Good and I hope if it was due to rape or incest, that you would feel the same and not abort either.
@Hurdleez-Swampede Absolutely. If I was raped it isn't my unborn son or daughter that deserves death. It is the rapist.
I'm not sure rapists deserve death but I wouldn't mind giving them life in prison without parole. I would reserve death sentences for murder only but I get how severe rape is. It happened to me when I was younger.
Moderate Christian household and premarital sex don't mix. I'm afraid you are not a true christian. You are an easy hoe. Sorry to burst your bubble but this is the only truth.
@Glue-Sniffer I am a moderate Christian. I never said I was evangelical. I do believe in Christian morality, and the idea that ending a human life in any case is wrong, but don't believe that having sex before marriage in a, mind you, committed relationship, is wrong.
your man is lucky to have you. i just could NOT date a woman who supports abortion.
I think the real issue here. The only way to ensure no unwanted children are conceived on the part of the man or the woman would be contraception for both.
I see the opposite situation as well. My fiancee was once tricked by a woman who claimed to be on birth control to trap him.
I believe women who do so are guilty of endangerment to the fetus- even if just mental danger of being born to a trapped father and thus the father should be allowed to have primary custody if he so chooses.
Yes men deserve the choice too. They shouldn't be allowed to say it must be terminated if the mother is willing, but the mothers shouldn't be allowed to say it must be terminated if the father is willing.
If the case is the mother does not want the child and the fsther does the same rules as surrogacy should apply.
I believe men should be more protected by women who seek to use them for their purse being in control of their own fertility would be the main means of doing so
Surrogacy is a voluntary decision. It can't be forced. Women aren't 'breeders' for guys wanting a child.
No they aren't but both parties know a baby comes from sex. If they are willing to face the possibility of getting pregnant they shouldn't be having sex. I don't believe it's right that a woman can end a babies life without the father's knowledge. The woman can keep the baby if the father doesn't want it and then he's stuvk with her paying child support for a woman and child he didn't want. I'm saying if we gave men a say as well, and if the guy was willing to be a father and the mother did not want a baby, then the only logical way of deal with that situation would be treating it like surrogacy. I'm not saying anything about breeding women.
@jacquesvol your logic is garbage. Murder is also a choice, so choice is not ALWAYS good. It has limitations. Women (also men) ARE breeders to an extent. What the fuck are you talking about? Humans have to reproduce or we don't exist. To say they aren't ONLY breeders is a different story but they DEFINITELY are. It can be forced the same way that abortion can be illegal. The question is whether or not it is right. And like ALL morality it is an opinion.
lmao Let's be real here for a moment when it comes to "MARRIAGES or BABIES" what a woman says goes, right?
If she doesn't like how the marriage is going "DIVORCE" and there is nothing that you can do about it. WHICH IS FUCKING STUPID IMHO --__--
If She doesn't want the child she can have an "ABORTION" and once again that's that. BUT if she keeps the baby or does what @gotc147 said WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, right? LOGIC FAIL couldn't be me though.
GIRLS say "OMFG MY BODY WILL BE RUINED" COOL and I don't blame y'all BUT tell that to the man that is barely surviving now. All because of some girl did (trapping with baby) THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN WANT... to bad he can't just abort it and call it a day since now he'll have 18 years worth of getting his paycheck stolen from him. FOR A CHILD that he can probably barely even see when he wants LOLOL
Men do have a choice: use and provide contraception and talk about how to deal with accidents before having sex. If that's not enough, then wait for a better alternative and abstain. The biological component of sex is usually done pretty quickly for guys - that's not sexism, but a cold dose of truth.
Failures happen with the pill and other hormonal birth controls, and many woman disqualify themselves from abortion due to moral obligations.
Sex can be fun, and it can be bonding. But there are responsibilities and boundaries that need to be accepted by both parties.
@mistninja314 FIFY:
"GUYS say "OMFG MY [wallet] WILL BE RUINED" COOL and I don't blame y'all BUT tell that to a pregnant woman, (trapped with a baby) tell that to a child."
@jacquesvol "BUT tell that to a pregnant woman, (trapped with a baby) tell that to a child."
So again the solution is just to give up? Not to actually try and find a real solution. Sounds like a pretty cowardly way to go to me.
I think it's folly how women tend to have ALL the decision making power when it comes to children.
Sure, they bare the child, but it takes two to tango. Men tend to get screwed out of child support, custody, and choice for abortion. Both genders should have equal responsibility and choices when it comes to their offspring.
In this specific topic, if a man doesn't want a kid and doesn't want to support one while the mother does want the child, then he should be completely abstained from that child's life and finances. On the flip side, if he wants one but the woman doesn't, then he should be allowed to take care of him/her.
I agree. I think it’s sad if the man wants his baby but gets no say. It’s terrible. I get that it’s her body argument but what you said, if they have sex, she should also be ready to accept the consequences is a great argument to that.
The only thing I’m iffy on is that she should pay child support to a baby she doesn’t even want and wanted to get rid of. I get he’ll need help financially but he should be ready to raise the baby all on his own since he wanted it. The mother is still being roped into something she didn’t want to be a part of in the first place. This shouldn’t be some golden ticket for women only. Men too. If he didn’t want a kid and she wanted to keep it he shouldn’t have to pay either.
*I’d also like to note, this doesn’t include irresponsible baby daddies who suddenly disappear when she says she’s pregnant. This is for the ones that take the time to discuss what to do with the kid.
Get married than have sex and everything will be just fine and everyone will be happy.
I agree men should have a say in the matter, women seem to forget all to often that a "man" is needed for the creation of a child. And that its is a mans every right to have a say in what happens to the child he helped create.
And no matter what women say the moment life was created inside the women he became responsible for that life he helped create. And has a right to say what happens to his child.
I totally agree!
When is a fetus considered a human being and therefor given human rights? Unfortunately, a fetus is not granted such individual rights until he or she is born. Thus, until the fetus is born and given rights, the father has no say. It's then, after birth, he is held accountable for the well being of his offspring, and rightfully so.
A life is a life, no matter how small.
@Phoenix98
A cancer cell too is alive, too much even. So is a tapeworm, so are bacteria and fungus.
A fetus is not granted individual rights until he or she is born.
That is a matter of opinion of.
The reason is that a pregnancy is often a higte burden for a woman (both physically, emotionally and socially), and may be very risky for a woman's health or even life. If a man wants to have the child, of course that is fine, but he can't make a woman go through with a pregnancy she didn't want.
If it were possible to completely safely remove a foetus from a woman's body snd have it develop in a man's body or an artificial womb, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take long for the law to catch up and let men decide whether they want to raise the child or not.
The fact that they can't now has nothing to do with their right to the baby, but everything with not having any right to decide over another person's body.
The only real solution is for both genetic parents to have to agree for the child to be born. If either don’t sign off the kid would have to be aborted. That’s the only legally balanced option. It doesn’t seem ideal, but it would be fair. If you get pregnant, you have to get a paternity test and get a DNA match to a partner. Both parties would have to agree in writing while witnessed by a notary public that they want the child to be born (birth license or something along those lines). If that doesn’t occur, then the child would legally need to be terminated. If a child was birthed illegally, then their would be no grounds inside a court of law for in accountability by the father and hopefully some sort of penalty towards the mother for fraudulent birth.
I think if the women agreed to carry the child to term so he could have it, fine. Forcing a woman to carry a child to term she doesn’t want also isn’t going to fix the problem. That would be similar to forcing a man to have a vasectomy when he doesn’t want one. She will more than likely not tell the father she’s pregnant and then have a secret abortion. Just stating the facts.
I totally understand that some guys want to keep the child, but if you are responsible enough to have sex, then you have to understand the consequences that come with an unwanted pregnancy, including abortion. Having sex without a condom or birth control especially.
I'm glad that i'll never have sex outside of marriage...
And NO to abortions!
There is also the mirror image issue that if the woman carries the child to term she will have to pay support for the child until it is 18. It doesn't matter that she didn't want it. That is the law. Just as men have to pay support for children women want, but they don't.
I didn't read all this. Woman has domain control over what is going on inside her. I think he should have right to argue his case, possibly before a mediator or something, but she has to do that work and there is a risk to her life, the life of the child and lets not forget... the child really needs her mother emotionally, physically. Father on his own can't feed... ok various formulas and such, but come on. This is a tag team thing. if she doesn't agree and she's rejecting the kid, it's a mess for the kid. Ideally people would be sane and rational. Be careful whom you mate with because this is the real deal and life is at stake!!!
It's unfair, but I don't see a plausible way to change that.
You can go into why obligating carrying the child is unfair (and not really viable given she holds the information). You can talk about whether either should actually have the right to demand abortion, but you won't get traction. You can want to beat your head into a wall at how 1/2 of women say things that if said directed at women would get you publicly flogged for misogyny. ("he should have thought of that before having sex").
You can consider that being absolved of financial rights would be slightly more fair, and there's ZERO chance of that happening - there's no group pushing for it, organized women's groups would push HARD against it, and governments will support them - government is happy to have some man to stick with the bills, even if as in some cases, that guy turns out not to actually be the father.
So for those of you who haven't had a vasectomy, pray for male birth control pills to improve.
@ComDom
" Protecting innocent life is worth living and dying for. If people don't stand up for something as basic as that. Why live at all? "
Why would Republicans then ask for welfare cuts in the budget and a bigger army budget?
The part of welfare that doesn't go to big corps and billionaires , the SNAP goes mainly to children.
The bigger army budget goes mainly to weapons which kill kids too.
How many kids died because GW Bush and the GOP wanted to occupy Iraq? Half a million because of the sanctions and an uncounted number because of the bombings.
@jacquesvol "" Protecting innocent life is worth living and dying for. If people don't stand up for something as basic as that. Why live at all? "
Why would Republicans then ask for welfare cuts in the budget and a bigger army budget?
The part of welfare that doesn't go to big corps and billionaires , the SNAP goes mainly to children.
The bigger army budget goes mainly to weapons which kill kids too.
How many kids died because GW Bush and the GOP wanted to occupy Iraq? Half a million because of the sanctions and an uncounted number because of the bombings."
Because politicians are morons? I don't know. I just have a hard time with government in general.
They do both have the responsibility to care for the child once it is born but before that it is the woman, and only the woman, who has to put body and health in danger in order to allow the child to be born. Therefore the final decision whether that child be born or not belongs to her. That's my view on it.
I think things should stay the way they are except if a women ends up pregnant, she should have to receive consent from the man to have the child. And if she doesn't receieve the permission she can still have it, however she can never make a claim for child support or anything
That's what happens when girls play russian roulette with their vagina. It sucks, but situations like this are the girls responsibility. If she doesn't want a kid, then she needs to either make a guy wear a condom or take birth control. It's also her responsibility to decide whether or not to abort. Does the man have the right to say in the situation? Yes, but it is still her decision. He is just her council.
That's what happens when guys play Russian roulette with their penis. If he wants a child, he needs to find a girl who wants one too and who wants it frm him. If he doesn't want to pay for a child he needs either to wear a condom, get a vasectomy or abstain from sex.
It's her responsibility to decide whether she wants to carry out a pregnancy or not.
Her body, her decision. Only his sperm, of which he already flushed bottles in the toilet or in a dirty sock. Nobody cares about his sperm either.
If guys could get pregnant, abortion would be in the Constitution as number one.
Now I do agree he should find a woman he wants to have kids with, but
@jacquesvol if the girl has ultimate say in what happens in the event of a child, it is in fact her responsibility to make sure the proper measures are taken so that doesn't happen if she doesn't want it. As you said, it is her body and is her decision therfore her responsibility. While it'd be nice if the guy helped out, it is not his responsibility. He can make it his responsibility if he wants to, because that's the best way to make sure things get done. But he would be taking her responsibility onto himself. It makes zero sense for it to be his responsibility, when he has no say in whether or not she keeps it.
Now if the law changes and men have a say in whether or not a girl can get an abortion, only then will it be both of their responsibilities
@rjroy3 As if some guys don't want to use condoms?
As if some guys don't take the condom off behind her back?
If you stick your dick in a chick, you're responsible, no way of charging her with the responsibility of what your dick does. It's not because guys don't get pregnant that girls are the only responsible ones.
If you don't want to face the situation we're discussing, you know what to do to avoid it.
If a girl has to abort, it's no fun for her.
If she has to be pregnant, give birth, raise a kid it's no fun either.
Girls don't seduce guys to get pregnant. Only some obsessed 1 in 10,000 might do that.
But guys who don't care are a legion. Bible thumping guys who only care about fighting abortion are a legion too.
@jacquesvol
That's a silly argument. "Some" guys are assholes therefore we all must be held to their standard.
If I were a girl and having sex with a guy, I wouldn't rely on him to bring a condom to protect me from getting pregnant. I'd take matters into my hands, because it's MY body. Why rely on a stranger? It's her responsibility to make sure that the measures are taken care of. You act as if a condom is the one and only option. There are several preventative measures. She can partake in any she so chooses. If it's her ass on the line (which it is), it's her responsibility. The only responsibility the guy has is to himself to make sure he doesn't get or give an std and in the event of a child, to pay child support if she keeps it. It's not his responsibility to make sure she doesn't get one. That's on her. This idea that it's the guys role to be responsible for everything up until the decision of keeping the child or not is baffling. Equal responsibility, but not equal choice?
I swear when male birth control comes out we won't have these problems.
@rj3 If you've been some months on this site, you must know how much some guys hate condoms and are willing to risk stds and paternity if only they find a way not to use them. I've read all kinds of deceit here. (girls who found the unused condom in bed between the sheets after sex etc "it slipped off", "he loses his erection when he sees or touches a condom" )
@jacquesvol I don't doubt some guys are horrible people who would do it. But if the girl is relying on a stranger, she is taking a risk. Just another reason she needs to make sure things are secure. Rather than feeding into the idea that we should make everything the man's responsibility and blame him for the girls problems. We should empower women to take charge of what happens to their body and not be a victim to any which way the wind blows.
When I have children in the older age having anonymous sex if they choose to. I'm gonna be damn certain my daughter takes responsibility and is on the pill. As you said. There are bad people in this world, she needs to be prepared.
@rjoy3
We should empower women to take charge of what happens to their body. Indeed. Abortion is part of that.
@jacquesvol
Yes it is, deeming her responsible of whether or not she gets pregnant unless forced on her via rape.
Wear a condom - your OWN condom that you know hasn't been tampered with - dispose of it yourself. Problem solved. People say condoms tear but if you use them right they won't. Never trust a woman who says she's on the pill unless you'd be willing to support the kid in the case of an "accident".
I'm okay with men having NO say in abortion, as long as men also have NO legal responsibility to provide for the child in question. Pick one or the other: men can affect the outcome, OR men are not responsible for the outcome.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
This is the short version of my answer.
Makes sense
This
Agreed.
Although I totally understand where you're coming from, some things in this life just cannot be fair and this is one of them. You can't make that decision, You can't tell a woman she has to give birth, can you imagine how hard it would be to give that baby up once she'd had it? What if she changed her mind? What if it turned out it wasn't his baby in the end? What if she says she doesn't know who the father is then aborts and then the father finds out? Do you prosecute? Is it murder?
If they were growing it inside of them for 9 months, giving birth to it, giving up their future and career for it, caring for it 24/7 and paying for it, then sure they can have a say. Until then, the woman's choice always overrules the men's decision.
But you're not paying for it, the father is, even while not having parental rights.
Way to stick with stereotypes. I would be paying as much as I possibly could for my own child, not rely on a guy to do it for me.
@gotc147 Who the hell said the father would be paying for it? Sorry, but if I was pregnant with a child, I would be paying for everything myself, no matter what my decision is to keep it or not.
Sure you would...
And even if you did, you're two women out of millions, 99% of women will go after the father for child support.
Great random statistic there. From pulledoutyourass. com I assume.
And I see you have no stat at all, it's easy to say you'd never make a guy pay for your kid when you're a keyboard warrior, get pregnant with a guy who doesn't want the baby and see how you feel then.
Why do I need a statistic? I'm not throwing around random statements. I'm not naive enough to get knocked up by some guy who doesn't love me or want it. Even if I did, I would have an abortion because I don't want children. I'm not a keyboard warrior. Everything I've written here, would be said directly to your face if you were here. I don't think you know what a keyboard warrior is.
I would expect the guy to help financially, but not pay for the entire situation. I would never want to be financially dependent on a guy, whatever situation arises.
It's a nice thought but in reality, if a woman does not want the baby, she will not take care of it. She will do anything to get rid of it and it isn't safe for her or the baby. Forcing someone to carry a child for 9 months because the guy wants to keep it isn't healthy. It may not be right for her to take his child away but the baby wouldn't be safe those 9 months anyways..
It's either unsafe or dead.
The unsafe can kill it and the mother.
at the moment of legal abortion there's no baby.
@jacquesvol "at the moment of legal abortion there's no baby."
BULLSHIT. Those legalities vary in different jurisdictions. Secondly, legality DOESN'T equal truth so that's COMPLETELY irrelevant. Laws arise because of the whims of its citizens not necessarily because of sensibility.
@ComDom "a place where innocent people can be murdered. "
I quote: in an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Nancy Pelosi told Tom Brokaw that "Doctors of the Church" have not been able to define when life begins and that because St. Augustine said life begins at three months, the viability of a child at that stage “shouldn't have an impact on the woman's right to choose.”
Bishop Aquila did not refute Pelosi at length since he said that the statement issued by Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver was "excellent" and he didn’t need to add to it.
www.catholicnewsagency.com/.../
Think about that before saying fetuses are people.
@jacquesvol I couldn't give a shit less what some Catholic priest says for a few reasons firstly I'm NOT Catholic. Secondly, this isn't about religion: This is about morality and science. Conception is, by definition, the beginning of human life. So the question is whether innocent life is worth defending or convenience? I'm gonna stick with innocent life.
Conception is, by Pro Life definition, the beginning of human life.
Cancer too is human and cancer cells live too.