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Men should have a say in their child's abortion (Page 4)
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Agree completely.
Also, if the father didn't want a child and the mother knew that, the father shouldn't be financially responsible for the child. the mother was the one who chose to keep the baby knowing the father would leave. She should have the sole responsibility then. If the the farher said he would stay and the woman has the baby, then he leaves; only then should he have to pay.
It's word against word if he says he hadn't wanted the child and she says he had. Unless he has papers to support his claim - and most people don't bother with that, let's be honest - he will have to pay child support anyway. If what you propose were to be actually legislated and men would be considered exempt from alimonies unless they explicitly wish it otherwise, women who genuinely thought he was going to stay would be left with little to no money to support their child. I mean, how many guys would actually claim in court that they had said that he wanted to stay, but decided to leave and pay for the child? An extremely honour-bound few.
if the father didn't want a child he should have used a condom.
If the mother was the one who chose to keep the baby under pressure of moralist do-gooders with their pro life propaganda everywhere, moralist do-gooders with their pro life propaganda should pay if they brainwashed the girl into keeping the child against her will.
Yes those "moralist do-gooders" they're terrible. I hate people who do good :D
@jacquesvol yes because pro-choice isn't propaganda too? do you even read what you write before you send it? I do partly agree though. Private organizations should help in those instances.
@ComDom
" Private organizations should help in those instances."
Help who and how? Which private organizations?
Pro-choice is not propaganda, it's defense of women's rights vs religious propaganda.
"Help who and how? Which private organizations?"
Private charities like Churches that assist people in situations like that now. Should I get you a list? I'd strongly prefer you do that yourself though. It would help people who don't get abortions. I'm not sure why that's confusing.
"Pro-choice is not propaganda, it's defense of women's rights vs religious propaganda."
Of course it's propaganda. Do you even understand the words you're using. You're massively bias.
: ideas or statements that are often false or exaggerated and that are spread in order to help a cause, a political leader, a government, etc.
@jacquesvol I responded to you^
Only if he wants to keep it and she's trying to kill it, but unfortunately hey what can you do its not how it works.
Otherwise you should learn how to wear a condom or you shouldn't have sex at all and learn the responsibility of your auctions and step up and be a father and if you're to cowardly to do that yes you helped make that baby you have to take responsibility in some way, shape, or form and that's paying child support.
Condoms don't always work. Things happen. Lots of people have babies even with contraception
@Michael_RC46
That's very true, but instead of looking at it as a burden how about looking at it as a blessing in disguise? Or not having sex altogether if a teenager is fully aware that any form of birth control can back fire adults should be to and they should take responsibility for it like I would.
Instead of taking the easy way out or at least give it to adoption. Just don't kill it I mean would you had have liked it if your mother or father killed you?
While it's not my say to if a woman should keep her kid or not, you ever notice how a lot of people who are having kids at a young age are the last people who should have kids?
What's even worse is when some women get pregnant, clearly by accident, and act like they're more mature and better than you solely because they have a kid. Not saying all young moms are like this, but my friend's ex-gf that he had a kid with smoked weed, cigarettes and drank alcohol during the pregnancy and she acts like she's so mature just because she has a kid. Her sister who has a kid, doesn't even have a high school education at age 21.
Yes! I completely agree. I understand that it's her body, there's no question about that. However it's my seed inside her. It was the combination of both of us that brought this life into existence. I know that a lot of people who are anti-abortion, are pro adoption. I also understand that sometimes during a pregnancy there can be life-threatening complications where an abortion is absolutely necessary in order to save her life. however I strongly believe that before anyone even possibly considers abortion versus adoption, that's a guy should have at least some say as to whether or not he wants to raise the kid even if she doesn't!!!
Men do have a say. Men make the choice of where they put their sperm. If they didn't choose wisely, that's on them.
Sex risks pregnancy. Getting someone pregnant who doesn't want to be risks abortion.
Sorry, we can't make that not true. It's just reality.
No they’re arguing that a man should have a say so when a woman wants to abort their baby.
In that case, the man can’t do anything if he wants to keep the baby and that’s wrong.
@BrookieCookie0422 You're missing my point.
They do have a say in abortion - by not getting someone pregnant who doesn't want to be.
That’s true
And I guess whether or not she made that clear beforehand is another issue
Men have the choice not to o impregnate women they haven't talked to enough to know.
Yah, and if the female wanted to abort and the guy didn't?
But if they both agree to sex and she ends up pregnant? What if he wants the child?
It's her body. If a man forces her legally, morally or in any other way to continue a pregnancy she does not want, he takes away her right to self determination.
Just imagine someone doing that to YOU.
If a guy wants a child, he has to find a girl who wants a child too. No way to get around that.
Igf a guy gets a girl pregnant, he can't decline his responsibility. No way to get around that.
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be one of the 10 Commandments and there would be drive by abortion centrums all over the country.
So it's ok that if a woman wants a child she can just get pregnant with any one night stand and then force him into paying for the child? I think the asker is saying that the laws completely favor the women and father's have no rights when it comes to unborn children, except that they must pay for them.
@Ananchor the law favorises the children. MRA abuse the distorted argument stressing "women are favorsed".
Those men pay for their child, NOT for the woman.
@Ananchor
In a perfect world, each parent would have a say and if one parent wants the child and the other doesn't the one that wants the child would have the child. Unfortunately, men are not capable of gestating and we do not have the technology to gestate artificially yet.
So men need to think about the fact that they are relinquishing control over their semen to their partner if they have sex without a condom or there is a condom malfunction. Is this a person you can trust to include you in a decision about what happens if there is a pregnancy?
It is unfair, but that is exactly the kind of thing women have had to think about before having sex pretty much always. I have faith that you guys will get it figured out.
In a perfect world people only conceive children when both really want to.
@jacquesvol in a perfect world people who think irrationally can take innocent lives among themselves and not pollute the rest of the world with their filth.
@ComDom
"people who think irrationally can take innocent lives among themselves and not pollute the rest of the world with their filth."
Is that a riddle or an insult in disguise?
It's not a matter of whose child it is, it's a matter of whose body it is. Sure, fathers who actually involved in the woman's life should be able to give their input and the woman should listen, but the woman needs to have the final say.
1. Regarding your disclaimer: "In no way am i against abortion". What is wrong with being against abortion and expressing your thoughts? How would it sound to start an essay about bombing pilots adopting the veterans they handicapped, by saying "in no way am I against killing handicapped people"?
2. What you say regarding responsibility for consensual sex makes sense.
3. Getting married seems to solve all these problems, doesn't it?
4. I don't and won't take contraception simply because I happily don't need to take hormones and I try to be an all or nothing person. Is it responsible love or isn't it? Yes or no, white or black, all greys are not such a great idea in sex. When you think of sex as a game, you lose by default. I do need to learn to be a more responsible person to be able to have responsible children though.
Actualy i dont give a rats ass about aborts, do what the hell you want with your body, but be deamed if you try to pull us along to. Wana easy way out, shure why not? Just make shure man has same rights, like noping out of parenthod. Nop i dont want kid, you knew it. Its on you. No child support, no name on birth papers, nothing.
Want kid, but man doesn't want, well its all on you. If you dont want to take responsibility for having unprotected sex, why should man take responsibility for it?
It takes two to tango, if one side isn't responsible, it screws with bouth.
I agree. Yes they both made a choice to have sex. And yes there is always that chance that the girl could get pregnant. But A guy should have a choice to. Maybe he is happy and wants to raise a child. I know it does damage to the woman's body for nine months. And it will take time and money to get back into shape. So the guy could $100 a month or something like to keep the child alive for 9 months. Then after she had the kid. It's 100% his.
I agree :)
Thanks @nerual92 :)
I don't really know what side I'm taking on this. I think the guy should have some say in it but the woman is still the one having the baby in her for 9 months, and giving birth to it. Pregnancy is hell, and she would have to put up with it for a baby she doesn't even want.
You have to go through a physical hell for 9 months, men have to go through a financial hell 18 YEARS.
This isn't as one - sided as some make it appear to be.
raising a child shouldn't be a physical hell. Also many men do not go through a physical hell for 18 years sinse they are not even in the child's life. Child support is support for the child. it includes putting roof over the childs head, making sure the child has food, clothes, as well as a care taker. Guy's who pay child support and are not even in the child's life are not experiencing a physical hell for 18 years. And guys who are in a childs life are not in a physical hell either. You are in a child life because you care for them and love them and its the right thing to do for your own child. You do not raise your own child as a punishment.
@gotc147: And women don't have to go through the financial burden either? Lol. When you have a child someone's gotta pay for it. Too often it's taxpayers picking up the tab because people don't want to own up to their responsibilities.
@bijinbijinbijin @musicbrain5
The child support is for a child he didn't want, if a woman doesn't want a child she just aborts it and poof, no more responsibility.
She wanted to keep the child so she can pay for it.
You have the "right" to get an abortion (where is that in the Constitution again?) But since we as men have no rights in that regard, we also should not have responsibilities.
Please see my answer for more information.
The women too go through a financial hell 18 YEARS.
Howabout people just wear condoms? There's also plan B. People need to be smarter, both male and female. All of this would be avoided if you spend $2.99 on a three pack of rubbers. $25-$50 on a plan B pill. Nothing is guarantee and I know that stuff happens, but at least if they've used some sort of Birth Control or contraception they would both be on the same page in terms of avoiding pregnancy. Then, whatever happens, they'll come to some agreement.
That doesn't always work. I know a guy who has 4 kids. He used condoms and other methods every time. Things happen
I know that things happen.
it's not that simple.
no method of contraception is totally foolproof.
@tenofthepeaks I know that, and that is what I mentioned. However, if a couple is at least trying to use contraception, I'm sure they're both trying to prevent having a baby. Therefore, whatever happens, they'll most likely be on the same page. My friend was on BC pills for 3 years when she fell pregnant. Both her and her bf chose abortion. He was there for her and they both did not want to bring a child into the earth under those circumstances.
I completely agree with this. Just cause its the woman's body , she's carrying it for 9 months blah blah doesn't mean that the father doesn't have any say in this. If a woman gets knocked up then decides to have an abortion, and the guy merely wants to keep it then its selfish on her part. She should've thought about the consequences before opening her legs
If the guy is a rapist then no way on earth he should have any say. I don't care how many dislikes I will get I am not steering away from this opinion.
Also women can die during child birth or have major complications. Its really her choice if she's going to risk her life to give birth to a child.
Also in countries like India some men force abortion on women because they don't want her to give birth to a baby girl.
There are too many men who will abuse the system if a law like this gets passed.
Women die but regular pregnancy symptoms are not life-threatening. It's her choice if it ends up that way, but keep in mind that deaths usually occur because of diseases, health issues, etc.
@MilkiiStrawberriis no some pregnancies can cause death and the doctors find out very early on.
In a rapist case the woman gets the 100% decision, if she was married, she will carry the child happilly and enjoy it, she knows her limits and the word of abortion is prohibted in the house. Unless there was a serious case and danger on her life than she can talk to her husband so he decides what's the best and no loving man will agree that his wife dies during delivery...
But they are usually caused by health issues, etc
@MilkiiStrawberriis if it's going to cost him his wife's life than he'll choose his wife because she is a part of him and his everything, if she stopped breathing and her heart stopped beating it's like he's dead, so he will keep his wife's heart beating and for sure will be sad for the loss of the baby and take his wife home and god will bless them with another baby.
@TonyMetal_86 If it's going to cost her life then it's 100% her choice and up to her if he has a say.
@MilkiiStrawberriis have you read what i said? Don't acr tough 😒
He has a say in all aspects of her life even in her life and death, like it or not!
@TonyMetal_86 But it's her life that's on the line, not his. Since the leading factor to the child's life is her giving birth to it, she should only have a say on whether she wants to die giving birth or not. But usually, pregnancy is not life-threatening.
@MilkiiStrawberriis i agree with you but since your husband is responsible of your life and body because your his housewife, for sure he will choose you wven if you said that you want to die having the baby, he will refuse because your his wife and he needs your love, care and presence forever... wife is always 1st just like a husband is always 1st for his wife.
Yes and no. Preferably the both agrees on the decision, but I do think it's the female that should have the final saying. After all, the female is the one getting affected by the child the most. It's her body getting ruined, she is the one to go through the pain of giving birth, she can't work or go to school for a very long time - which will affect possibly her whole life. She have to go to screenings and lay of a lot of things for a long time, and the child is way more dependent on her after the birth, than it is of it's father. It's rare, but she could die or get seriously injured from the whole experience of birth and pregnancy.
Men leave their children more - and easier than - women does. Sure it's his child too, but she is the one who is "stuck" with it.
It would be nice if a woman talks things over with a dude before aborting but ultimately, it's only her decision that should matter. 100%
If you are a guy and you don't like abortion, only stick your penis in your wife. Then you will (most likely) have nothing to worry about. Or, you can stick your cock in a girl's mouth or a dude's ass. A girl's ass is still risky cuz there could be seepage from one hole to the other.
I agree with you on the second part but the 1st part about 100% woman decision, this can only happen in woman's dream if she was with me 🙂
i see the point. -_- yet a woman is going to always have more rights because she is carrying or has the potential to carry the baby for 9 long months. o. o which is really really difficult as i hear.
Yea a guy should have a say, but less of one. I mean everything comes from the mother when a baby is born, until they're like 1.
he's not the one going through the physical/emotional effects of the pregnancy so no. Its not his body anyways and forcing her to do that will violate her personal rights.
No, that is ignoring the principal of property rights. Since his sperm helped to conceive of the child, and since the sperm is inherently his property, then his property was integral in conceding of the child. Thus, he has half catertakership over the child.
If this is not true--and the man does not, in fact, have half catertakership/ownership rights--then he also has no repsonsibility over the child. He has no responsibility to care for the child whatsoever--emotionally, fianancially, etc. And, I doubt you believe that.
No, forcing the women to give birth to a child she doesn't want is violating property rights itself. It is her body and giving him considerable control over it would be a total violation of basic rights of the mother.
It depends on the situation. If he doesn't want the child but the mother does, then he shouldn't have to pay child support and the mother can go off on her own. If both parents want the child and they both sign the birth certificate; then both are responsible. If it was a rape, then the mother gets full control no matter what the situation.
@TheSpartan
-He flushed quantities of that 'precious sperm' away in the toilet bowl or in an old sock. He could be awarded a symbolic $ for it (or another spoonful of other sperm, furnished by any helpful soul.)
Your argument didn't rebut my point. Yes, the woman does have full control over her body, but the discussion is not over her body sovereignty, but of the sovereignty of the zygote or embryo or fetus. Because his sperm helped to create the being, he has half "ownership" over it. What is your rebuttal of that argument?
This isn't about anyone's "sacred sperm", @jacquesvol. This is about property rights. If a man wants to flush his sperm down a toilet, so be it, as that is his property. However, if a man does not want his baby to be aborted, then he also has tremendous say in the matter, because he has half-ownership over the baby/zygote/embryo/etc.
@TheSpartan
IF you consider the fetus a human being, he simply cannot claim ownership or property rights: that has been abolished with slavery. IF you consider...
That's why I use the word caretakership or "ownership" (since it is not real ownership). I figured you knew what I meant.
Conserning abortion men should have a say if the woman wants his opinion but that's all. Her body her choice.
Concerning a man being able to choose if he wants the kid or not that should be his choice, if a man does not want a child forcing one onto him is wrong. His wallet his choice.
Sex=/= consent to have children.