Can men who are part of MGTOW still have happy relationships with women?

[Ozanne]

I've been interested in learning more about MGTOW since I first heard about it about two years ago, and I have seen a few sides of men who claim that what they think is really what MGTOW is about. I get the basics: Men Going Their Own Way - plain and simple. That's a no-brainer.

What I'm wondering is whether or not you think MGTOW have the ability to still have loving relationships with women, or is the message that no girls are welcome in to their lives romantically, and barely at all in other ways?

I watched The Red Pill trailer and from what I see, the men interviewed seem poised, intelligent, and not at all hateful toward women. However... online, some MGTOW (especially anonymously) have the tendency to be abusive to not just women but to other men who have made different life choices when it comes to love.

In your opinion, does MGTOW leave room for women to have relationships with men at all, or is it the single life and no other way will work for them?

[jennyPuss]

it really depends... MGTOW is not like chocolate or vanilla. it's more like music. some guys may be angry, other guys very rational and have never been hurt themselves. there are guys who say no women at all- and others who say limited female contact. the gist is that over all- a concerted effort by men at the society level is being pushed to punish women for destroying marriage (for them) it's hard to blame them. i have a male friend who... all i can say is if you read the transcript from his divorce like i did you would think we're in the twilight zone. we all HEAR about men getting screwed in divorce, but we don't actually witness what goes on inside those family court rooms. men are made out to be villains. the idea of divorce by itself is bad enough for most men to question taking the risk of marriage in the first place. but then you add to it the likelihood that their lives will probably be ruined (of which the odds favor) you're looking at a lose/lose situation for men. even men who don't get married can be forcibly removed from their homes by a woman who's name isn't even on the lease or mortgage- ordered to pay support and utilities, and give her his car that she has no legal right to- all because she's claiming to be a 'victim'. this all takes place in civil court, where there is no jury and the woman does not have to prove her case beyond reasonable doubt. she only has to get the judge to agree. by having a relationship of any kind with a woman where she cohabitates- he literally is trusting his whole life into her hands and trusting him not to screw him over without any recourse should she decide to do so. most men when they think about it in terms like that decide that no woman on earth is worth the risk. and until the family and civil court climate changes to favor men more again- we're not going to see MGTOW go away. in fact, the bible says there will come a time when 7 virgins will cling to one man and beg him to take them- they will provide their own food for themselves and their children- but only let them be called by his name to take away their shame. the fact that we can't find husbands is a judgement from God against this country. the situation is going to get worse- far worse. God's judgement won't end until the women who have become prideful with feminism are completely crushed and reduced to begging.

[Lady_Frost]

The way I know MGTOW the short answer would be no.
I remember a graph showing what they have called the MGTOW red pill levels ranging from 1 to 5 where level 1 means no long term relationships with women, 2 means no short-term relationships with women and 3 means even sexual abstinence from women.

As you have noticed MGTOW has a specific focus on us women, to isolate themselves from us. It will leave you thinking if MGTOW is really going their own way or are they only trying to get out of our way.

MGTOW claims to be a response to feminism and a gynocentric society but what they have managed today is becoming the women hating male version of radical feminism. At least if you pull a random MGTOW out, then chances are, he hates women like his fellow members do.
If they do not want to deal with women at all then that isn't a problem.
What is a problem is how MGTOW does the same practices towards women as radical feminism does towards men.
These groups have turned out to be 2 sides of the same coin.

[levantine99]

if it is levels 1-5 why you topped it at 3? lol.

[Lady_Frost]

@levantine99 I had no reason to. Here's the graph

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...c8d647102b.jpg

[levantine99]

well that was more like a social recluse chart. i mean five, getting off the grid living in caves and all. what does that have to do with women? and its not entirely bad to be independent. they mix many irrelevant concepts in this graph i think.

[Lady_Frost]

@levantine99 Their choice to leave society and live off the grid out in the woods and wherever they want to as long as they don't hurt us. I see no problems with that at all.

I see problems where misogyny is their actual practice and call all of us hypergamous cock carousel riding gold digging bitches.
There was also another graph about MGTOW levels but I can't find it anymore. This one is a newer one (it underwent a moderate redesign it seems).

[BrileyCat]

i bj'd a couple of these MGTOW fake celibate monk types in college .
i guess they knew i was easy . that's why they asked me out.
i didn't really know much about them until they explained their beliefs.
but i'm a goood listener . pretending interest and wonder with doe-eyed innocence .
ntl i could tell they were pretty happy with me outercoursing them .
then one guy really cute helplessly began texting me . so i had to sms him . sorry IMGMOW .
i think the answer is . not a happy self-fulfilling one .

[Ozanne]

This is hilarious. Yet sad. Poor guy probably had made just enough effort to leave MGTOW and you crushed his feelings sending him right back. Oh dear...

[BrileyCat]

i think you're right . subconsciously was i trying to prove a point? omg . how terrible of me .

[LThunder]

Uh, MGTOWs aren't celibate. MGTOW is no kids, marriage, or cohabitation. Doesn't mean they can't have a relationship or get a bj from a slut.

[BrittBratt2416]

No, they are going their own way which means they don't want relationships with women nor do they want to get married (at least that's what they say but deep down inside they probably do want to find a woman to love).

[Unit1]

I wouldn't say, that they are going their own way. They are rather going the MGTOW way (Avoiding all women, women are evil, gold diggers etc...) which places most of it's members into a position of bitter misogynists.
If MGTOW truly went their own way then they wouldn't devote so much time and attention to women in the first place and would just go about their own day.
But that's just what MGTOW does - women, women, women. Most topics they talk about are about being derogatory towards women. In one way or another women are being blamed by MGTOW for just about anything. This is the mirror image and male version of feminazism.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

^ Exactly. An equal an opposite response to feminazism.

[burpzzzzz]

Only short term relationship if that. I did know one MGTOW that ended going into a planning long term relationship. But he had to prepare himself it shit hits the fan. He ended up getting a trailer if he ended being kicked out or cops calling on him.
This isn't to blame women but there's enough women out that will call the cops on you if she gets pissed off and claim domestic abuse.
Women complain about the gender wage gap which doesn't really exist. Then at the same time women want men to pay for all dates and buy crap for them like a child.
I refuse to tolerate shit period, men or women.

[Deuteros]

@Unit1 most MGTOW never post anything. Reading a few comments by new MGTOW in the midst of red pill rage thwn pronouncing judgement is like judging feminist by the most hardcore misandrus femnazi. I'm a liberal voting easy going guy who is very popular with women. I've been MGTOW for 17 years. If you don't belong to a group, what gives you the right to define it?

[Unit1]

@Deuteros I used to. Been there, done that.

Your analogy of judging red-pill enraged new MGTOW the same as hardcore radical and misandristic feminazis is quite accurate. I see it the same way.

[ivanunleashed]

Part 1
Back in 2001, as an angry and less tactful 24-year-old, I actually wrote about what would become this sad trend. In fact, I was almost committed to the same course. I spent A LOT of time and energy studying and researching to prove my case, but my heart won out. The ache to be truly loved, appreciated, and desired by a woman could not be reasoned away. Ultimately, I discovered that fairness does not equal happiness, because not all things matter equally to both sexes, or even to individuals. It is a fool's errand to attempt to be the arbiter of justice in a relationship, especially when trust and understanding can and should carry the load. I finally knew what I wanted in a woman and I wanted to be the kind of man she would want. It became easy to navigate the "dating world" once I stopped mistaking beauty for goodness and finding my worth through the favor of women (a common mistake). It was not long after that I found the woman of my dreams and I pursued her with a confidence I never had before. We were married in 2004. To this day, my amazing wife and I just don't have the drama that comes from distrust.

Today, as a father and husband with more experience, I see a dire need for reconciliation in our culture, especially between the sexes. There is more than enough blame to go around, but few who will dare to lead by example. The sense of power and reverence engendered by Leonides in the movie 300 when he announces, “This is Sparta!” is undeniable (https://youtu. be/514IEcgz1Q8). It lies in the fact that this warrior-king lead when it was hardest, especially when it was hardest and the stakes were high. His queen knew who he was and expected him to live up to it. We all felt it. Indeed, we men still have more power to influence our circumstances, yet most are unaware of this and there is little support to do so. This does not mean we need to ask for permission or wait for support. It is short-sighted to suppose that “opting-out” will offer the solace we want so bad. The solution is really for males to start living by principles again (true ones). Here is one: If a woman does not know what she wants yet, and you are willing to do whatever she wants (because she is hot), she will never respect you. Nor should she.
...

[ivanunleashed]

My recommendations for guys who feel adversity with women, or insecure, or won’t commit, or whatever. Put the damn controllers down and stop playing dating games, especially on women’s terms. Pick up a personal development book. Learn about leadership, emotional intelligence, success, history, people skills. Identify your weaknesses, strengths, passion, and purpose. What to you believe? What do you want? What matters to you? Own it. Pursue excellence. Become a freight train of masculine energy and purpose moving in a direction you chose. Show respect to all people, and you’ll command it from those around you, including women. You will not settle for less, and there will be no shortage of options, believe me. If there is a battle to be one, fight from a position of strength.

...

[ivanunleashed]

Remember, women are not the enemy. Most have just never met a man and you don’t just get the benefit of the doubt. It has been my own experience that few women have ever conceived of a man in terms of a person who they knew truly loved them, had their interest in mind, and could be absolutely trusted. If an adult male is unwilling to show them different, he is just not ready to be a man yet, and will find he is not respected like one by very many. I’ll tell you, having a worthy queen who looks at me like a warrior-king is worth the best of who I am. It means my daughter will know what a man is and what it means to be loved and respected by one, because of how I treat her mother. It means my son will know how to be a man.
Did I mention it means more to lead when it is hardest? Will more men rise to hold the line for masculinity? Yes. We need more males to become good men and lead. First themselves, and then others by example.

[levantine99]

why should guys fo through so much to learn to be with women. we ain't that special. if we trouble you so much you shouldn't bother.

[Onidandal]

@levantine99

inb4 old thread

He's listing out classically attractive traits, and those traits require a massive amount of time and energy. He clawed his way to the top 20% of men. He's also right that there's a need for being loved, that doesn't easily go away. Trust me, I've tried. What else is there to do, then, but play the game? If the image of an attractive man is one who goes to his local upscale bar in a suit and orders whiskey while making approaches on women, and the image is perpetuated by both the men who shame those that aren't the ideal and the women who would rather give their love to the ideal image of a man, (Be aware that I am making a general statement, and you may be different) then shouldn't a guy play into what's considered attractive so that he has at least some chance of being loved?

There are plenty of men who would rather not bother, and who don't feel as strongly about the need for that kind of connection. They get it through a pet, or some other means.

[Unit1]

Unit1 reporting in!
That's a Very good question ozanne!
If you remember i was publishing my own mytake about MGTOW when i considered myself to be one. There was also another gager here, who i consider was my friend but he became inactive as of lately. @iambluethunder formerly nightingale. He was also a MGTOW but has left it mainly because of the misogyny of the community. My reason for quitting MGTOW was the same. From both of our experience i would say, that if there are MGTOW wanting a relationship with a woman then they would consider leaving MGTOW since MGTOW strives as much as possible to seclude themselves off from anyone, that was born with a vagina.

I would highly recommend you reading my long mytake about my story how i myself turned into MGTOW and then quit MGTOW. It has all the details in it and you will find many answers for your questions. You were inactive around that time so you have missed it. Definitely read it and analyze my text. Here is the link to it
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a29613-how-i-turned-from-being-bitter-resentful-towards-girls-into-a

Yes, i was that MGHOW, who didn't hate women just like my friend iambluethunder, but the word MGTOW today is strongly linked with misogyny, which is rather not worth disclosing and frankly not be part of.
But today i love women. I can't imagine life without women. Expect MGTOW to call me a white knight for being a normal, heterosexual, healthy and open minded man, who doesn't judge women but is impressed by women.

[Ozanne]

I'm going to confess, I have heard many of Sandman's videos and the guy creeps me out. Just that faux news-cast read alone where he emphasizes on four words at a time is creepy. But I don't like the message, find it hurtful toward women AND men when he takes delight in men simply taking advantage of all women before he even knows that the woman in question might have been perfectly well-meaning.

I've also seen guys anonymously encourage harm against women, and you know - after reading about that whole Elliot Rodger thing, there are guys who are nutty enough who don't need to take things the wrong way. You never know how crazy someone is going to be. But the violence and directives to women are so not necessary. I get being alone and I get feeling defeated by the system. But to blanket all women means the guy is basically calling down his own mother. News stories cover the extreme, but news stories never talk about today's happy relationships. Duh. LOL

[Unit1]

It's a crazy and scary world indeed. Good men and women are a real scarcity right now. I wonder why.
I have always had this healthy skepticism in myself when MGTOW said stuff like "AWALT" and branded *ALL* women the same based on a trait of a handful of feminazis or insane females abusing the F out of men.
How would MGTOW know?
I suppose they are doing this in order to reassure themselves back into their own poisonous MGTOW island.
So if *ALL* women are gold diggers, then so are their mothers, their grandmothers, their sisters, their girlfriends (if they have any, duh) and their daughters.
And mother theresa and female celebrities and career-oriented women and...
I need not to tell you how I find all of this ridiculous.
It's always good to have a healthy amount of skepticism inside you.
I wouldn't take these threats on the internet too seriously unless they seem viable ("all women are hypergamous gold diggers" compared to "KILL ALL WOMEN" by a known misogynists)

[Unit1]

In which case the known misogynists can face police investigations.

[Unit1]

Many thanks auntie Ozanne! :)

[burpzzzzz]

You can't join MGTOW so you can't leave MGTOW. MGTOW doesn't even anti marriage although most are highly against it. it's about going against society's expectation since society is against men.
If you beat someone with a stick you're going to get annoyed. If you continue you're going to get upset.

[burpzzzzz]

And this is the problem. We are constantly told we hate women. Guess what if we are repeately are told that we get annnoyed and eventually pissed off. Women tell men not to generalize women but you women do the same thing with MGTOW.
I really don't care anymore what men and women think. They are anti MGTOW men constantly attacking us without understanding the problem.
Sandman gives you creeps because you're an idiot. He tried his best with women but none of the women were helpful. How much bullshit should a man deal with?
Lately some woman wanted to date him but he refused because he remember how the last one he dated. He was in a relationship while being a MGTOW but all it did was leave him in a crappy situation.
As long as women assume MGTOW hate women then that is all you will see. And those men who used to be MGTOW doesn't really understand. Men go through red pill rage which makes them mad.

[burpzzzzz]

You're dumb there are government trolls. How do you even know they are MGTOW? In the MGTOW forums men aren't even allowed to talk about those things. Maybe you're making this up because I have been with all the mgtow forums and hang reguarly in MGTOW youtube channels.
MGTOW men do say let society crash and let women die. But that's not violence because women are doing it to themselves.

[burpzzzzz]

Why the fuck are you even asking then? You're a fucking troll you fucking cunt.

[DonutAss]

@burpzzzzz Here is the thing. 90% of the posts, videos, etc by mgtow are just plain mysongenistic and hateful. What do you expect people to think about you guys? And not all women generlise mgtow, some don't.

[Canuckto]

@DonutAss Look dumb asses before I joined the MGTOW community I was silienced by simply disagreeing with feminism. Women try to control me by telling me that I wouldn't be able to get a stupid date. I hate to break it to you when I first discovered the men's rights community it wasn't welcoming to me. A lot of male MRAs too were bitter to the bone. Once women against feminism came about Paul Elam with his crew decided to ban men who disagreed with traditionalism. Feminists aren't really the problem because at least we as MGTOW know not to deal with them but the so called non feminists will still ruin a man's life.
Sandman has never used women. He has confessed going monk when he was approach by a woman. He has gone through crap with women several times.
Women have been taking advantage of men since the 60's. Not a single MGTOW tricks women into sex.

[PatriarchalOppressor]

I'd have one, but as soon as pressure came on to engage in legal/financial entanglements, I'd be out the door. That's happened a few times over the past several years - got out when the pressure to sign stuff came up. I would never have dreamed of giving a guy legal and/or financial power over my life; but I had to learn a hard lesson on that same front when it came to women. Men and women are no different in term of how much you can trust them, even when it comes to a wife or girlfriend. That's where the whole NAWALT/AWALT conundrum is misunderstood. Al women are NAWALTS until they get legal/financial power over your life. Then, should they feel scorned, it's a miserable life in Hades for men from that point forward. Check out this article, it says it all. The men in this article are sick wealthy and can afford the settlements they had to pay out. The average guy, when losing half his shite, starts contemplating offing himself with a.45.

www.therichest.com/.../

Women now hold the majority of the US wealth - and they did it through divorce settlements, anti-male government laws and policies and gigantic inheritances after their male forebears died off.

We do now and always have lived in a world that promotes male disposability and cultural misandry. It's why men are the vast majority of suicides, pay the vast majority of taxes, are like 99.9% of combat and workplace deaths & why the vast majority of state and federal spending on health, education and welfare is spent on women. It's also why we have the male-only draft. Men are disposable to women & the state.

Relationships with women are way, way down there on my personal priority list. I know too much. If she even thinks the word 'feminist', she's out of my life permanently.

[ivanunleashed]

So what do we do about it?

[MrOracle]

Like most things, it depends on the guy.

Some just object to the one-sidedness of modern society and legality, but have no problem having a relationship with a woman.

Others BLAME women for everything, including their own misery, and those guys aren't likely to get a woman even if they wanted one (and, most DO want one but try to convince themselves that they don't, because they realize they'll never get one with their attitude).

[Ozanne]

I get this part: "Some just object to the one-sidedness of modern society and legality, but have no problem having a relationship with a woman." - and really don't blame them for trying to reclaim men's rights. I wish I could understand who had the power to sway modern society.
Some would just say feminists, meaning women. But most people who work in law are men (judges, attorneys, etc.) so you would think these men had their chance to find fairness for their brethren. It seems weird that it's got to this point.

[MrOracle]

Rationally, that makes complete sense, but the events at the time weren't entirely rational. Much of this stuff happened in the late 60s and early 70s, when so many other things were falling apart in society, Vietnam (and the protests against it) were raging, huge numbers of men had been drafted and were not around to vote (several women I've known mentioned that for a number of years, it seems like no young men existed anywhere - so many had been drafted). And women had some legitimate complaints that deserved to be addressed.

But in the chaos of all of that, RADICAL feminists (not the "normal" kind) pushed through laws intended to PUNISH men for the "crimes" of previous generations - and many of those changes made it through the legal process. Politics is a tricky business, and sometimes people put unpopular things in a bill that is otherwise hugely popular, knowing that there will be huge pressure to pass it.

[MrOracle]

Certainly, men had some participation in all of this, but most people here weren't alive and don't remember all of the things that were going on during this time (I wasn't either, but I've studied a lot of it), and it was an incredibly complicated, chaotic time with lots of huge, sweeping changes being made - and inevitably, some bad stuff was going to sneak through or be pushed through.

When to gun control people push hard for their law? Right after a school shooting, when people will pass stupid laws in a knee-jerk reaction to a tragedy - even if the law would have done nothing to prevent the tragedy. That same kind of thing happened in the 60s and 70s.

Even women realize now that some of these laws have gone too far, but it's a SLOW process to get laws passed that re-balance things, especially when such issues aren't headline news every night.

[ivanunleashed]

We have generations two and three times removed from a time when there was an abundance of positive masculine male examples. Remember Highway To Heaven on OTA TV? It would be offensive nowadays.

[MrOracle]

You aren't wrong...

[MarcoIsAFailure]

Most people who label themselves MGTOW are just woman haters.

They could have a healthy relationship with a woman, if it only really were about them going their own way.
If you look at the core principles, it would be possible.

It's quite comparable to feminism and the dictionary definition actually.
If you label yourself a feminist and really just want equality, then that's no issue.
But in reality, many of them just hate men.

But while in feminism, it only seems to be a small but very loud minority who is that way, it's most likely the majority of MGTOW as that term only exist in weird internet spaces anyway.

[Kuraj]

Being a MGHOW simply means to do whatever that makes you happy.
Whether you wish to seek relationships with women or not is irrelevant to whether you are a MGTOW or not.
MGTOW has no "ideology" or "principles".
Nobody but the MGHOW himself defines what the way he wishes to go is or should be.
It just so happens that for a lot of MGHOW the single way of life is the way that fulfills them and it is the way they wish to go.

MGTOW has nothing to do with women.
It has EVERYTHING to do with men seeking their own happiness, against the expectations and definitions of the society, women or other men.
MGTOW is like feminism except unlike feminists or MRAs, MGTOW men don't whine about the world being unfair to them and they don't try to force the world to be the way that fits them.
They simply flip the world off.

[worldscolide]

MGTOW men don't really do that. They just leave women behind. There is a certain sub culture of MGTOW that you might call PUA or pickup artists, but they basically see all women as toys and nothing beyond that. The trailer that you have posted. you should watch the whole movie. That movie is about Mens rights activists, it was originally made to expose sexism and so called rape culture in the movement, but it ended up with the maker leaving feminism because of how toxic it has actually become. There are also extended cuts of the interviews on Youtube with all of the people she interviewed.

[Ozanne]

I plan to see it. I think it needs to be seen by everyone, actually!

[worldscolide]

I would have to agree. My wife shockingly was eager to watch it with me, immediately after seeing it she joined women against feminism

[Ozanne]

All of it fascinates me. And though I identify as a feminist, I think it's more of a sensitivity I have toward women who have no basic human rights compared to women who believe they should just have it all in the name of getting "what's owed". But I also have a sensitivity toward men who are being wronged just as women were once before, and think extremists need to know how much they're hurting people. I don't believe counter-hate conquers hate. It just makes things worse, and no one ends up admitting they were wrong - ever. I'm glad I'm not the only woman who is interested in seeing this, and I hope men can acknowledge women like us who truly do want to understand so that they can think twice before blanketing us all as being insensitive to their issues.

[worldscolide]

You remind me of the Christina Hoff Sommers type of feminist. This is by no means an insult, Look her up on YouTube. I have great respect for her You and her are the kind of feminist that i can get along with. The ones that stand for real equality, not the farce that it has become today.

[Ozanne]

I thought she was really disliked. :/ I'll have to look her up on YouTube to see what she's about.

[worldscolide]

she's pretty disliked by feminists that disagree with her, she's almost universally loved by men and rational thinkers

[ivanunleashed]

Cassie Jaye is amazing! Her honesty, courage, and sincerity are evident in the film.

[cth96190]

For most MGTOW the whole point of the exercise is to not have any form of interaction with females that can be avoided.
Self-evidently, this means no dating, no sex and no form of relationship with women.
By doing this, MGTOW hope to avoid: sexual harassment allegations; false rape allegations; false domestic violence allegations; being cuckolded; being destroyed by a divorce court; being impoverished for life by child and/or spousal support orders; being imprisoned due to inability to pay the aforementioned child and/or spousal support.
Women, as a collective, have made themselves to toxic and legally dangerous that it is better to be alone.
I have been a MGTOW monk for almost 16 years.

[Ozanne]

Thanks, @cth96190 Interesting points. Don't you ever miss the sex or having the companionship?

[Kaazsz]

All these problems were created by men except false allegations. And even then it's men who created the system which allows false allegations to put men in prison. It's fine, go your own way. But don't blame women for the system men created. We did it to ourselves.

[cth96190]

Of course I miss those things, but the legal risks and emotional trauma are huge entries on the other side of the ledger.

[cth96190]

@Kaazsz
You show extreme Stockholm syndrome.
The problem was created by Feminists, who acted (and continue to act) as the useful idiots of the global elite.

[Ozanne]

This is what I said to @MrOracle before Kaazsz answered you:
"... most people who work in law are men (judges, attorneys, etc.) so you would think these men had their chance to find fairness for their brethren. It seems weird that it's got to this point."

Would you not say that @Kaazsz is referring to this? Feminists started the movement, but men - who predominantly hold power in law - had an opportunity to push back.

[thisisausername1]

The men in the law are just like women, meaning they have 0 self-reliance so they need to steal from men. MGTOW is a man who can get out of the cave and still survive in the wildreness and bring back the meat, he is not a man who needs to assume an autocratic position over other men in order to get part of the meat they bring back in the cave nor he is a rat that needs to subtly cooperate with females to snatch some meat when the strong men return from the hunt. These three decided to gank up against the strong man and it didn't cross their mind that he might go MGTOW and one day when he leaves for the hunt he might never return.

So no, the men in law are men who stay behind in the cave and try to snatch meat from strong men. Women stirring shit so that men will have to fight back is women who want to play some reverse psychology power play and get artificial importance over the man.

[thisisausername1]

Woman's grave mistake who thought that men will comply and fight back whenever they stir up shit is they thought that men need their pussy like they need to breathe. I need food, oxygen, sleep. I dont need pussy or children.

[Immortal_God_King]

I have, but I won't again. She was one in a couple hundred and over a decade of dating. The effort to find what scant few remaining women who actually weigh what they ought to weigh and have managed not to become an egotistical thundercunt about it is exhausting and time consuming enough... but to actually find one of those that is also single, straight and doesn't have another man's kids, not even to mention intelligent, financially independent and compatible, is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end: you can try all you like, but you're going to have a shitty time.

[Deuteros]

I still have female friends, I have two sisters and other female relatives.

I have to work with several women at a university, all of whom are extremely feminist ( and often vocally misandrist) they say things every day that would get me fired (or worse) if I said them about women.

I just don't tell them I'm MGTOW and avoid even a hint of romantic interest. I'm a tall attractive guy so occasionally I have women flirt with me or ask me out. I just politely decline and try to avoid them. Politically I'm left of center so I don't have a problem working at the university.

Most MGTOW are like me , they don't go on blogs and post angry things, they just avoid the pitfalls of relationships and interactions with women and the problems they cause us.

I see the young men at my university, they make awkward advances. I cringe and think. One wrong word and they will mattress girl you. They are one false accusation from a ruined life and title 9 suicide.

Not me. MGTOW for life.

[Bsjevrnsjxhxjs]

It doesn't work that way.. You aren't mgtow if you are attached to women.. That means dating or relationship.. You can fuck but that's it no emotional bs.. The reason why you can't be mgtow is because if you deal with women it means you're still vulnerable to female nature and that nature prevents you from being the man you want to be.
Also mgtow is a lifestyle the knowledge of mgtow and still dating women is only useful for damage control but it doesn't prevent damage does it?
You can still love your sister and mother but even they have tendencies. I'm not a mgtow but I'm working my way towards it hopefully.

[ivanunleashed]

It is not the solution. I used to think it was. We can let their nature prevent us from anything we allow it to, or we can become the men we want to be in spite of it. We don't need permission. ;)

[Bsjevrnsjxhxjs]

@ivanunleashed but that's the thing thou.. Their nature effects us on a subconscious level so just by having female friends you have exposed yourself potentially.
I do see your point thou about us allowing it but in my opinion if you are a heterosexual male it's very very difficult to be around them and not follow your instincts.

[ivanunleashed]

For sure it's difficult, but not impossible. It's worth it. They are subject to our influence as well. Just use it to be a force for good. Master your mind, bro. We are what we think about most and we get to choose what that is. :)

[dianagirl]

It depends on where they're coming from. In a way, we're all going our own way. If we're not prejudiced towards other groups, then we'll be open to possibly having a relationship with someone. This reminds me of a book I read the other day. It talked about how too many men aren't emotionally evolved and that if one woman hurts a man, he'll dislike all women and either won't get involved with women or he'll just use and abuse women. (The book is called "Woman to Women", free from kobo books and it made sense because that's what I've experienced and observed.)

[Wwwyzzerdd]

From personal experience, no. I had my chance to lead a normal life and women ignored me to get married to men they would later breakup with/divorce.

Now they are all unattractive single mothers, fat, or unhealthy. I however am healthy, fit, and pretty much the only thing lacking from life is companionship.

Having lived this long single and alone, nearly a decade without a normal relationship of any sort, I don't have any hope that it will "Get better".

I don't consider myself mgtow anymore because of misogyny in the community, yet I still can't shake the notion that there isn't anyone for me out there. Unicorns don't exist, as active as I am someone should have noticed by now and shown interest but it didn't. I'm left with zero hope and zero motivation at finding a life partner. She doesn't exist.

[Ozanne]

That's funny because you sound exactly like me when I was 30. I was a decent looking woman, had a career, had life experience, but guys seemed to want the big-titted bimbos. In fact, some just outright told me in so many ways: "You're too good for me." (one, while drunk admitted "I need a girl with problems.") I was so annoyed that this was the new dating trend, so I hid out in my apartment and just decided there was no point in even really trying anymore since it was a bust every single time.

Like you, I noticed the men got their fill of unhappy marriages. I reconnected with several on Facebook and the like after finding out they were single, only to find them bitter. Some were sowing their oats, and others were against relationships altogether. Me? Single. Single the whole fucking time.

However, I met my husband in my late 30s - happened when I least expected it. I would have been fine without him, but of course, I'm grateful how it turned out. :)

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Great but our situations are not the same.

[Ozanne]

LOL no - no two people are going to be the same, but it's the same-old-same-old. Didn't date, didn't get the girl/guy when we tried, didn't date, saw through people's bullshit after they made stupid choices... some people stay single, some don't. I married late in life, that's all.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

I don't believe in marriage.

[Unit1]

Neither do I.
I don't want marriage.

[Blackmoonsns]

Each MGTOW is diffrent. All a man wants is to be loved for who he is not his money, Be treated with respect when he gives respect, and not to be cheated on. This is about what all men want.

[NewEnglandDude]

Pretty damn simple. But sadly women can't provide that.

[FatherJack]

MGTOW is NOT a true movement , unlike feminism , which is centrally led ( by the man haters !! ) , well funded & backed by many laws too. MGTOW is an online only & very loose collective of mainly burnt men , more of a forum for a lifestyle choice , as opposed to a true movement. I am a single dad , working FT too , as I binned my ex wife for her laziness , complaining & self pitying attitude , it is worth the sacrifice.
I don't date , as don't have the inclination , time & money & also know my market value in the dating world is worthless , no woman wants a man with baggage , she will seek a protector & provider , I can do the former very well as a big built former soldier , but not the latter , as my children are priority no 1 , at the moment I just scrape by !!

[madgoat]

I suspect the essence of MGTOW is an emotional commitment to putting yourself first as a man rather than submitting to the current anti-male , politically correct, dogma that pervades society right now.
Although a MGTOW probably would not want to get married, I don't see a committed, loving and balanced relationship being of the table.

[Margillard]

If you watched the complete movie, (which was almost banned), the author , a feminist activist, once she finished her interviews and research, decided she wasn't going to be be a feminist anymore.
You here from women that men don't listen and they do not express their feelings, but when a you hear a collective of it women refuse to acknowledge it or accept it, but they lament "where have all the good men gone" ... long time passing. 🎶

[Intraluminal]

Like the feminists they despise, theoretically MGTOW can be a force for equality, but in practice it's overwhelmed by ideological extremists and losers.

[Anpu23]

MGTOW and MRA's are two very different creatures. Someone can be a men's rights activist and not be MGTOW, and visa vrsa. See: www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a36221-inside-the-men-s-rights-movement for more info.

[levantine99]

whats the point of this question? isn't mgtow exactly NOT being with women? what you are talking about they call it purple pill not red pill. red pills are like no women at all, or be with a woman but be a tyrrant asshole suspicious of her every move.

[LThunder]

"isn't mgtow exactly NOT being with women?" Nope, common misconception. It is, no marriage, no kids, no cohabitation. That is it.

[jason_waterfall]

So I just looked up the red pill movie and found out the creator was a feminist 😮😮
I don't partake in movements so I can't really say.

[Ozanne]

Yes, she connected with the men supporting men's rights because of how she felt as a feminist. In the trailer alone, you clearly see how conflicted she feels.

[Svennedude2]

The community makes some good points here and there, but at the end of the day I think the community is as poisonous as the feminist movement. Both just sugarcoat their bitter, sexist message. I saw one video that revealed the true colors of mgtow, where they showed Indian women being grouped up and the men were physically abusing them. I don't recall the exact message of the video, but it was something about 'them deserving it' It was a little bit sickening.