These terms have been around far longer than this online stuff has existed. This is a gross oversimplification and shows a lack of thought and knowledge on this subject.
@Chimeguy: These terms have existed long when describing animals, but using these terms to describe human men is a more recent phenomenon made popular online.
Sorry, that’s just not true. I was around before the internet, and they were being used to describe humans before that.
@Chimeguy: Prove it
Well I can’t post links, but I did look it up. I have my own personal experiences, so I had to go look up the actual references. But here is the quotes from sources. Even after discussion of alpha males was well established in various fields of animal behavior, though, the concept was rarely applied to humans. What changed that, at least in part, was the release of the Dutch primatologist Frans de Waal’s book Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes in 1982. “I don’t think the term alpha male was in use outside of primatology when I wrote Chimpanzee Politics,” de Waal told me in an email.It started becoming more popular in the mid to late 90s. Sorry, you’re still wrong. You sit here and talk like an expert when you have no clue what you were talking about. It only took a few minutes of looking online to find this. But I also heard the references with my own ears many times when I was younger.
@Chimeguy: Oh please. Your source simply suggests that people used the term to apply to humans here and there in the past. That doesn't exactly prove that it was popular to refer to human men as "alpha males" or "beta males" back then. Where is your proof that it was popular in the 90s? I don't want an example of, say, one person or a handful of people calling another man "alpha male" or "beta male" in the 90s. I need evidence of it being used in a similar way that it's used today with similar frequently. Show me several old books on the subject, magazines, newspaper articles, old websites, use of the phrase in many past movies and TV shows, and so on, and compared them to the same stuff today. If you can do that, then I would be convinced and admit that I was wrong. Hell, I'm 30 and when I was in high school and college, nobody was using these terms like they were using them today and that wasn't even execrably that long ago. As far as I'm concerned, these terms have always mostly described animals, not human men. This "alpha" and "beta" male bullshit used to describe human men didn't start really taking off until the mid-2010s.
Whatever, I don’t have to provide a citation of that to you. You just got your ass blasted because you are wrong. That article continues to go on to talk about how it became more popular in the 90s though. You are so full of yourself and your useless opinion that you just think you know everything. You’re also horribly judgmental of other people. And I already told you I can’t post links. I’m not bending over backwards for you. It happened, you’re wrong. My guess is that you are the kind of person who labels anyone an incel who disagrees with you.
I’m out. You can live with the fact that you’re wrong and you can’t admit it. Have fun in your echo chamber.
@Chimeguy: You showed me an article that mentioned a handful of instances of it being used to refer to human men in the 90s. Big deal. I never denied it that people used it to refer to human men at any time period. Yet, that doesn't mean it was "popular" back then. You didn't show me exactly how it was popular or comparable to how it was used today. I asked for you to show me several old books on the subject, magazines, newspaper articles, old websites, use of the phrase in many past movies and TV shows, and so on, but you didn't do that. I need more than just one article mentioning just a few instances. Nowadays, it's so common, you even have young boys trying to be "alpha males." Also, the only person being judgmental is you and getting all upset for no reason. If you can't post links, then that's not my problem. When you get the chance to, please prove your case, or just drop it.
Please. I don’t care. You’re the one who was provided a source and can’t take it. Keep crying. I’m not looking up tv shoes and stuff like that. You’re just mad because I made you look bad. And I did. Hands down. Just go away. Or keep it up. I don’t care. At this point all I’m going to do is taunt you.
@Chimeguy: You provided a weak source that doesn't prove the popularity of these terms. It only provided a handful of instances where the term was used to refer to human men. The fact that you don't want to provide BETTER sources to prove your case probably shows that you don't have any and that you don't know what you're talking about. You just think that you can tell someone that they're wrong, provide a source that weakly supports your claim, and then start being judgmental and run away when called out on your bullshit. I don't care what you do, but if your goal is to convince me that I'm wrong, either show BETTER proof as I asked, or go home. The only one "crying" is you.
No. I’m just done with you. It wasn’t weak. Also, I heard it myself when your mom was still dropping you on your head
@Chimeguy: Well, based on your responses to me, you definitely don't sound like an "alpha male."
ok. That’s nice. Now go play with your dolls.
@Chimeguy: Can I borrow yours instead? I'm sure a "beta male" like you have plenty.
I love that you’re so mad. It’s funny.
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Well described haha
see what I mean? here's one heavy load, but this as an extreme case, others might be "smarter" about it, but they're still the same piece of bull, just presented in a more subtle dosage of douchery
Not true, alpha males are gentlemen. Gentlemen implies you are competent enough to not be gentle, but choose to be. Beta males are subservient, not gentlemen.
@Vetis well i personally dont know gentleman who call themselves alpha. Anyone calling themselves alpha from what i’ve seen were arrogant cocky douchebags
Yes but it’s funny that the dominant confident man that was in Bill Gate’s High School... well, no one knows him nor do they care now. But Bill Gates, he has fame, wealth, power, influence and a nice wife and family. The big talker at the bar is usually left behind in life from what I have seen.
@Jersey2 Sure but he’s a big outlier. That’s not a measure of reality
It is actually. I know a lot of rich nerds and a lot of cool bar/restaurant people. Big difference but these are not famous or at least not famous beyond their community of nerds. How about a 32 year old with half a million already. Or a 27 year old making $140k. I know these people and many millionaires in their 40s.
@Jersey2 Sure, I work in crypto where I know a lot of rich nerds but I wouldn’t consider them alpha by any means. Being socially dominant, confident, and taking the role of a leader isn’t how I’d describe rich tech nerds. These extreme outliers like Bill Gates do not showcase a realistic outcome for that personality type.
Those in crypto are alpha in the sense that they are taking big risks, leading the pack, and have the new key trait to success, intelligence. Society has moved so far in the past 100 years that Darwinism hasn’t culled the offspring of the less intelligent which would in the end change what women instinctively desire as the ones that select intelligent men will have superior offspring many of those women select other traits like strength which is not a requirement today for the most success. Society is unfortunately interrupting that as it provides a lot of safety nets that allow those offspring to continue breeding. Intelligent nerds today will produce the offspring of the future, the cool guy’s kids will not have the same resources or intelligence and will get left behind but it has changed so fast that the culling hasn’t taken effect to change the instincts of women yet... but it will just like Neanderthals were bred out so will those who would have been successful as recently as 100 years ago will be bred out. We are at an inflection point in this regard. In a microcosm, I think Asian females mating with white males will exceed others. White female and black male will be weeded out over time. I am sure many would say the black guy is cool today and strong but that won’t take them anywhere in the long run compared to the alternative. It’s a matter of time and then the more success female offspring will know which way to go. Natural selection will make it happen.
@Jersey2 Interesting take. I’m one of those guys in crypto. Taking risks and accumulating a lot of wealth. I tend to disagree though. I think we’ve evolved to an extent as humans, but at the end of the day- we’re still primal. A former navy seal like Jacko naturally commands a room without saying a word. Someone like crypto face is still gawky and nerdy. He might have more money, but I wouldn’t look to him in a tough situation. He’s not a leader. He’s a socially awkward nerd. An alpha confidently leads. These tech nerds often only have one aspect which is money. I also don’t like the ideal of comparing blacks to neadrathals. My best friend is black and is far from. I think there are much more accurate gauges of intellect and aptitude outside of race. I believe that women will always be naturally drawn to the confident strong alpha rather than the socially awkward rich nerd.
In 500 years will the Seal be different? A different type of man. 500 years will change things as 2100-2600 will be very different than 1400-1900 for the type of guy that will be most sought after. I think the weighting of what is important for success of offspring will fundamentally change.
@Jersey2 I think many things will be different but I don’t think there will be such a shift in which you’re suggesting because cultural shifts are cyclical and only one factor to why society acts the way it does. The other side is biology and it’s a big contributor as to why things are the way they are.
I believe it will shift and that it is inevitable. New skills are needed to progress across the solar system. Darwinism will snip the portions of the bush that is mankind to allow the stronger to emerge. In this case, stronger doesn’t mean physical strength. It’s the only way we progress, survive and thrive but it is a slow process.
So true haha
What a conservative view. So why do you politically side with gays trannies and feminists wanting to teach young boys to cry wear a dress and cut their willies off?
@bamesjond0069: I told you I don't support LGBT and abortion. Besides that I'm a liberal personality wise and moderate politically.
What about taxing alphas to pay for beta issues?
I don't understand what you mean?
So do you think rich alpha competent men should be taxed to pay for subsidized minimum wage workers? Only a beta male would consistently work at a minimum wage job.
@bamesjond0069: Man, look. Life is very complicated and has many variables why one will end up making a big salary while another will be stuck at the bottom.Intelligence capacity comes into play, life opportunities as well, individual talents, education or lack thereof.Making big bucks or not doesn't determine if you are alpha or beta. A beta is a weak submmisive punk while a alpha isn't. Money is 100% irrelevant.
Yeah you might be alpha on WoW but no alpha is living in his moms basement. So yes money absolutely has in part to do with alpha or beta. Why are you such a big supporter of taking from the competent aggressive business owners, leaders, risk takers money to pay people who most are too wimpy to even ask for a raise or promotion at freaking mcdonalds? Hint hint there are no alphas working at mcdonalds and content.
@bamesjond0069: There are dudes working at McDonald's and Burger King that will crush your head in bruh... go to a big city like Miami, NYC, Chicago, Houston and L. A.
So you think simply being strong is all it takes to be alpha? That seems pretty counter intuitive. What if big strong man is afraid to fight and he crys? And little weak man is cutthroat killer with a gun and 10 bodies to his name? Lmao.
@bamesjond0069: Job title doesn't determine alpha or not. Bill Gates is a big time boss but he isn't Alpha. Lol
So you think men at mcdonalds are as likely to be alpha as a ceo?
@bamesjond0069: Makes no difference in my opinion. The CEO of Apple sucks off his boyfriend.
Well the only ceos you seem to be aware of are pop culture icons. Try normal hard ass business men. Not silicon valley fag boys.
@bamesjond0069: I'm just stating the reality of the world. There are alpha CEO and non alpha CEO. You become a CEO because of a very high knowledge of the company and business. It's all about the money not alpha or beta when it comes to it.
I dont think you know much about ceos tbh. Most are in smaller companies. They are leaders and decision makers who are responsible for their people (employees customers etc) its not just keeping track of money on a spreadsheet. You honestly think so many ceos who are leaders are betas? So betas are leaders to you? But if they have muscles they are alpha? So a muscular man at mcdonalds is more alpha than a man who has 1000s of people carrying out his orders. I mean its possible but i think typically not. So like a king is a beta and a soldier who does the kings bidding is alpha? So when the king steals the soldiers girl does that make the soldier a bitch? What happens when muscle man mcdonalds man gets old, is he a beta wimp now? Your definition just really makes no sense if it means all older men are betas. Smh.
@bamesjond0069: You're not understanding what I'm telling you. Who will be best leader in the following scenario:A beta who is super tech savvy and knows the business of technology very well?Or a alpha who is totally clueless nor doesn't know how to operate a business?Who will you logically put in charge to run your company between the two?
A normal company it would be an alpha. Twitter probably the tech savvy beta. Most companies are not twitter. Remember most CEOs do not know the business at a technical level. They are leaders for hire. Essentially smart, good leaders, comfortable making high stress difficult decisions on a regular basis. I would also argue an alpha can't be totally clueless. If mr muscle man was big and strong and great at the skills for basketball but was totally clueless and kept shooting his own teams basket with beautiful net 3 pt shots. Is he really an alpha? Or is he a retard?
@bamesjond0069: Bro, you're not making any sense. What's a normal company? You actually think the executive board of American Airlines or Home Depot or fortune 500 companies sit there when selecting who's going to be their CEO if they are alpha, beta gay or lesbian? No. I explained to you one is elevated to such position because of their extreme knowledge, skills, business savvy to make the company more money to lead them to prosperity at all cost. It's all about the money. Alpha, Beta, Gay or straight is irrelevant to the matter.
Bruh really? If its all just money. Why isn't everyone rich? Alpha behaviors lead to business success. Beta behaviors in general do not. With the exception of an inventor geek.
I don't know about any time. What reason would an alpha turn to beta? He could but there's no reason. Why dont all betas just wake up alpha tomorrow if they dont like being betas so much? Ie why can't i get a girlfriend why do i live with my mom why do people bully me... wouldn't they just simply be alpha? Smh