If a guy does favors for you because he finds you attractive?

[Anonymous]

is it wrong to accept them? I don't think it's wrong especially if you didn't ask for it because he chose to give it to you and why would you turn down favors?

I'm having a debate with a friend about this, she says that its wrong and you shouldn't accept handouts. But that's like going to a store and getting a discount, are you going to March right back with the receipt and tell them to charge you full price? I don't understand her reasoning even though she explains it I just don't agree lol

Updates

+1 y

It's funny because if the situation was twisted and I was doing let's say...sexual favors for a guy to get him to like me, I somehow doubt any of the guys would think he is wrong for sleeping with me. A guy wouldn't say, "man don't sleep with her that's wrong unless you plan on being her boyfriend you know she likes you". interesting

[ArtistBboy]

It has to do with ethics.. Just because you "can," doesn't mean that you should.

My parents raised me to never take handouts because there are those dire-times-in-need; and it really has helped me to listen, the reason why is because my true friends that aren't leaches (sucking out of my pocket) will honestly help me at any point; all it takes is one phone call.

The kids who didn't understand that friends aren't bank-institutions got the kick from my life a while ago. And I'm not limiting my last sentence to monetary financing.. I've watched my brother being used for rides / help with homework / etc.. And it has absolutely destroyed him emotionally to the point where he's becoming a cold-hearted-sociopath about it. So when I see people who use others, I tend to set them straight the worst way that I can, by being real with them upfront. I don't sugar coat or hide my disgust in people taking handouts.

Taking a discount from a store is completely separate.. Stores offer discounts to reel in consumers; those consumers then buy product that are "on sale" (even when the company is still making a hell of a mark-up). In turn, the translation is that Discounts = Purchase. The company is making money EVEN if you use your coupons. The guy giving out free handouts wouldn't gain a thing besides being led around like a puppy-dog. But is it "wrong"? Who knows, it's based on how you feel morally about the situation. Like you said, you haven't a problem with it - and I don't blame you. I've seen people get by just fine with handouts 24/7.. But I've also seen those same people beg-borrow-cheat-and-steal when they have no one else to turn to, just to make ends meet. I'm sure a lot of the former friends I've had are realizing how hard life is when everyone knows you as a leech.

~ ArtistBBoy

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

" Chivalry is completely seperate than beggary; where has the world gone to relate the two in the same topic."

Yes please tell me why you so easily related chivalry and beggary here?

So unless you gain from helping someone else - then it's totally okay to selfishly offer yourself for personal gains?

If you don't gain anything from giving to someone - then suddenly that person is a leech?

Um...

You offered to help them without them asking at all.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I fail to see why YOU OFFERING OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND ACCORD, to give to someone, makes you the good person, and them the bad person for taking the help you give?

Be different if I used your attraction to me to get what I wanted from you - but if your willingly helping me out and I need the help, then I'll take it, and help you back.

It's not beggary - it's being friendly

[ArtistBboy]

beggary - the state of utter poverty. The reference being towards the character it would take to accept help when it's NOT NEEDED. You define these handouts like they are something you can't go without; but think about what's truly being offered in 99.9% of the cases in the world today.. They may help with store trips, being your therapist, or possibly paying for you to get new shoes for prom. And yet you say these things are needed? That's why I say: "Beggary".

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

My parents also taught me not to take hand - outs, but they also taught me to seek help when I need it. If this guy offers to help me when I need it, then why the hell wouldn't I take it?

Like you said dude - don't confuse beggary and chivalry - which you did :P

[ArtistBboy]

I guess my non-smart ass response would be: "Show me something you need help with, and I'll show you the directions of how to do it yourself". Why should you be encouraged to be lazy, while others take care of your work for you? Hence why sentence one of my answer supports the argument of Ethics.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I didn't confuse beggary for chivalry - your the one who assumed anyone seeking help as being lazy or whatever.

It's not. And that's what happens when someone helps you. If it's something they can teach you, they teach you - not a lot of people are just going to do it for you. And you shouldn't expect that of anyone else.

That's why I say if a guy does me a favor, it's a kind gesture. Am I too lazy to do it? Nah, he just decided to do it for me. I didn't make him do it - he did it himself

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I've refused guys for doing simple chivalrous things - they do it anyway. I'm fully capable of going out and learning on my own - but don't ever forget that people themselves are a resource. Which makes me a resource as well.

I've have willingly offered my assistance to people for the sake of their own success, and helped them along.

And they are not bad for accepting my favors. I don't get why you keep confusing that for people leeching off of others.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Your brother obviously didn't understand the difference either - hence his cold / hearted emotionally damaged complex.

[ArtistBboy]

"It's a kind gesture" - how so? If I were to say: "Let me make your car payments for you, because your attractive".. That's like saying: "Here, have another beer, you obviously haven't had enough" in return. You are encouraging boys to continue a desperate pursuit of women so that you can get handouts; even when a high majority of women are complaining/bitching about these guys being pathetic and following you around: "Even though it's nice that he bought (you) dinner".

[ArtistBboy]

Why not stand up for yourself and say: "John, you don't need to buy me things" or "Sam, I can take care of the bill myself, but thanks for being considerate". At which point you should insist on taking your own way through. THAT'S how you run your own path through life without being a beggar. Just because times get tough, doesn't mean you should give up. By accepting handouts you're giving up; you are saying "I need help" when truly you do not. Maybe you should read up on ethics before we cont.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Like I said - you and your brother don't understand the difference.

Once again your confusing favors for leeching.

Ugh come on - I know your smarter than this.

Let me put this in smaller words for you;

If someone is fully capable of taking care of their own situation, and does not require the assistance of anyone else, they should. If they are in need of assistance, and someone offers to help them, it is not wrong for that person to accept that help / favor.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

WHEN THEY NEED IT. My friend is doing bad in math - so I offered to help her with homework. Now she's passing math and understands the material.

Omg she's a total leech.

If she was doing good in math and asked me to do her homework for her, because it's easy for me and I'm in a higher class - that's being lazy and a leech of my resource to her.

Same thing here.

If a guy offers to buy me lunch becuase I'm broke and can't eat - and I say yes am I wrong?

[ArtistBboy]

I understand completely; but let me break it down even smaller so you catch what is really being said:

Define: "NEED"

Your definition is wack and unjust. E.g. lets say that you theoretically "need" your homework done. How does that qualify this as a favor per your definition - you are fully capable of taking care of the work yourself; but because he offered, it's now different? I disagree with what you're saying - do we have to see eye to eye? No. That's the beauty of living in the USA

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Am I wrong for allowing someone to help me when I need it?

And as I said - ( ugh sick of repeating myself,) I'll reciprocate - WHICH MOST PEOPLE DO.

Now - if a person is capable of helping themselves and they continue to abuse the resource, ( it being the guy in this case,) that is leeching and that I do not agree with.

Learn the difference, and then respond.

Spewing about someone else needing to learn their ethics when you mess up the ethics themselves is rather hypocritical...

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

My definition of NEED is the same as yours. You keep f***ing up your perspective. It's quite illogical to say the least.

As for your example:

I need my homework done - but it can't be done because I need the help to do it. Guy randomely offers to help me in my time of need with his knowledge - homework gets done. I'm still the one doing it, he's just helping me to learn how.

Hell a baby needs to learn how to talk - so the baby is a leech for not doing it itself?

Come on now...

[ArtistBboy]

*Sigh* you're argument is the same thing being recited like it's a chapter in the bible. My advice is to search deeper into your own definition and re-read what has been said. You are clarifying the same thing I am saying, but in your own words. The difference isn't the definition of what has been said - it is what terms are being used in the definition. You're form of need and my form of need are different. NEED is something that I cannot, could not, and would not try to accomplish solo.

[ArtistBboy]

Per your last example - You chose not to do the work yourself, you could grab the book and learn; or use other sources (than men who find you attractive) to seek your knowledge (E.g. tutors). The baby is dependent on his parents to nurture him into adult hood. The baby CANNOT learn for himself without being taught. Read this: link

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Your argument is the same thing being recited as well - and it's not a very strong argument to say the least.

No offence.

" cannot, could not, and would not try to accomplish solo."

Like I said - PEOPLE ARE A RESOURCE. If this guy is a means for me to help myself in accomplishing a need, it's stupid to not illicit that resource.

If you need water - are you a horrible person for using your faucet to get you some? No.

Same deal here. As long as there is no taking advantage

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

WTF DUDE?

PEOPLE ARE A RESOURCE! What the hell do you not get about that? Hell there were times when BOOKS AND WRITTEN LANGUAGE DID NOT EXIST.

so guess what we had to do? USE EACH OTHER AS A RESOURCE TO LEARN.

Obviously the book is not helping - and hands on with another person is a more recommended way of learning anyway. Why do you think babies learn language so well from their parents? Their parents are a resource to their nurturing from food, to thirst, to shelter, to

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

social training.

Omg you can't be this illogical. Your basically saying if for any reason you rely on a person for assistance when you need it, then your a leech and bad person for it. WTH? Our entire existence is based off of assisting each other at some point and time.

Jesus christ - why don't you get that?

Your brother let people take advantage of him, hence the emotional destruction. Bad ethics.

That's what you are incapable of distinguishing.

[ArtistBboy]

Wow, you're moral IS lower than your IQ. Stop trying to talk sh*t to someone who has a different perspective than you do. You really are starting to drive me crazy, so I'll let you win seeing as your an 18 year old know-it-all who doesn't care about anyone but herself. The theory is and has remained that with a firm understanding of ethics; anything is possible to accomplish solo. An example which would be exempt is being transported to the hospital. You have legs and arms, use them.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Your examples regarding someone just willy nilly " paying your car payment," when you have the money - isn't morally correct. Unless this person owes it to you for something you did for them, and is there moral means of retribution.

However, saying you have to help yourself by disregarding the help of others is contradictive, because people provide a helpful resource. Your morals are still just in seeking that assistance or taking it.

It is bad when you take advantage.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

I'm not talking sh*t - I'm being honest. Your argument is flawed dude.

Because you keep exluding that people are an appropriate resource, and that there is a huge difference between getting honest help, and being a leech.

Cares about only myself?

So now you think your a genius when it comes to morals - and all of sudden know everything about someone you never met?

Wow.

I'm the one with the low IQ. Lol.

Anyway - you need to learn a bit more about this before speaking on it.

[ArtistBboy]

Clarify -> When you have done nothing (e.g. the question at hand) other than being attractive; how is it not "taking advantage" when someone offers you there help and you accept. You haven't earned the right of that help, nor has it even been affirmed that you need that help; you're just taking it because it's there and because you have a pretty face.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Lol.

For one - Your not aware that this person's motives for doing something is because your attractive. People do nice things for not so attractive people all the time. It's pretty arrogant to assume for one - unless this person outright says " your cute so I'm going to buy you pretty things." Or there is a subliminal relization to it.

It's stupid of me to think that every single guy who offers to do something for me just does it because I'm cute.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

The QA's scenario is based off of an assumption; if it is realized honestly that this person is just doing things to win your affections, that's when you need to judge favors from leeching oppurtunities. If he's simply holding doors open or pulling out chairs - so be it. If he's trying to buy me tons of things and do all this and that. Then it becomes bad ethics on my part for accepting when I can get those things myself

[ArtistBboy]

Here's the flawed argument: You're comparing doing favor for favor. This question and my lecture is about doing favors for nothing, and how accepting during said scenario is tantamount to declaring yourself in a state of beggary. And now you are adding to the situation you're specific case of whether or not you know someones motives. I'm saying that motives are exclusions to your acceptance when you know ethics because one does not take what is not rightfully theirs.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

However, that must be established as his motives in the first place.

All that other mess about people seeking help and you labeling them leeches for it - is a load of crud.

I never quite understood why men would use her being attractive as a single motive to do things for her when they do. Trying to impress her maybe?

[ArtistBboy]

Thank you for proving what I've tried to declare relentlessly. "If he's trying to buy me tons of things and do all this and that. Then it becomes bad ethics on my part for accepting when I can get those things myself" ;; P.s. I don't consider opening a door a favor; that's chivalry, which relates below to your image of helping a granny cross the street. Chivalry is a state of being; he does it because it's who he is; not because it's "FOR" any particular person.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Lol see from your response I thought you were speaking in general - using your brother as the example implied that which is why I was questioning your argument in the first place.

Perhaps for men it isn't that she's just attractive that motivates him - perhaps it's the possibility of getting her that is the retribution here. There's always a motive, and for guys, getting a woman seems to be a very powerful one.

[ArtistBboy]

Boys, like my brother, and millions of guys who "do favors" for women in that type of scenario; ARE doing it because they want to earn the woman's attention. By allowing such behavior, it encourages them to continue what they are doing. Which makes more whiny guys that have to be coached through their onset depressions regarding relationships and why they can't get a date. Which also annoys and repulses most females; hence a second reason of why I don't condone "Favors"

[ArtistBboy]

Meh, my brother is on my mind a lot because he's a big part of my life. So it may come through my actions, but it's not intended. Regarding your curiosity see my comment below this one

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

It is a risk no doubt - I mean, guys can end up giving and giving and ultimately get nothing ( the girl,) which gets pretty annoying and tiring no doubt. But there's also the notion of " not putting all your eggs in one basket," that so many people seem to ignore.

Women are inherently valuable to men due to the need to breed instinct men have, and I guess something in men makes them feel giving so much is worth it for such a steep cause as reproduction. Don't know why nature is that way?

[ArtistBboy]

I would tend to think about competition.. A man who feels he has no value, feels he must produce value in the ways he can. By providing / volunteering his time; he feels the woman may accept and pay little attention at first; but might give him a shot because he was different - even though that is often not the case (personal testimony with no evidence to support); basically, men do it because they feel they have no other option.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

When it comes to courtship it largely favors the woman. Men have to compete more actively, give more actively, be judged by more core things like character and various aspects of " power."

I guess it counterbalances the fact that just about everything else favors men. Your the dominant gender, more " valuable " gender in terms of economy / progression, stronger gender ( kept and continues to keep humanity safe,) stuff like that.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Very true @ men producing the value he feels he lacks.

There is definitely way more pressure on guys to build some type of value for themselves, from every perspective; women pressure them, other men pressure them, nature pressures them. Can see the frustration of it. Though I'll never be able to fully understand it, but I don't know if I want to lol :P

[ArtistBboy]

My sociology class is examining data currently - trends are continuously improving at a linear rate for men, exponentially for women; (in regards to women with bachelors + job / women in military / women in "House" / etc).. Then again, the data from years ago leave a small denominator to compare the results with, resembling that there are huge gains when maybe the gains are small; give it time, I'm sure things will improve drastically in favor of women.

[ArtistBboy]

Those pressures also apply to women I presume? I mean, in high school most women would judge each other similar to the expression "a book by it's cover" and tend to group by precedence of alpha female.. Similarly with men, it seems like a big damn competition. Even though we all have to support grandparents/grandchildren equally and pay the bill for our for-fathers. Seems like we fight for the same cause, but against each other.

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

There is pressure on women to attract men, as in being as physically appealing as possible, but it just isn't as heavy for lack of a better word as it is on men. I can get away with having no job, no career goals, no means to support myself except being some guy's house wife. And that's still very much accepted today. Have a man want to be lazy, have no career work ethic, try and get by leeching off of some girl. He is greatly ridiculed for it

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

What makes being a woman difficult at times - is that women are never appreciated for anything. Tis why you see society becoming so female empowered, because we're still coming from a time in which men received all the glory and women just lingered in their shadows. In all honesty, from what I've seen in 18 years of life - the men work and come home - whilst the mothers are working, dealing more with the children, keeping the house neat, cooking most the food, doing this and that

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

to keep things in good order. If she's a good wife. There are still a LOT of ideas reinforced on women as far as our " duties," for simply being born female. And if we don't stick with them, we are bitches, bad mothers, and everyone's favorite - sluts.

That's the only equivalent I can think of towards male stress. But if I dare acknowledge that - men have a complex of " your a woman, life is so easy for you simply because you can obtain effortlessly what us men want ( sex / power.)" -_-

[ArtistBboy]

Exactly, I don't think I'd ever want to be the sole-gaurdian in a relationship. Women have and will always be better at raising children from my perspective. Which is why I can personally agree that I wouldn't give a woman any slack for being "lazy" as perviously described.. There are times in this economy where I might ask her to step it up a bit, but not nearly as where I've come from with my folks. Does that mean I have any more voice than hers? No.. Raising our next generation is important

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Agreed and honestly that's okay. A lot of people are against traditional gender roles - I am to an extent, but men and women have our subtle differences that just make us a bit better at doing certain things than the other. That doesn't mean the other is obselete in some way - but we should be working with those small differences uniformely instead of trying to be super man and super woman and act like we don't need any body else when clearly we do lol

[heavensgift2girls]

Yes it is wrong. He is not doing it because he is a good friend. He is doing it because he is trying to prove himself worthy to you. When women use men like this, sooner or later the man gets so angry at always being used, that they end up turning into one of the a**holes that mistreat and hurts women.

I have seen several good men get turned into bad guys, because of this. By accepting the favors you are telling him that he has a chance with you. You are purposely sending the wrong signals, and that is very cruel. When you get a discount at a store, the store is not going to feel like you led it on with no intention of every feeling for them, the way they feel for you. Men are not stores, we are people, and we have feelings that need to be respected.

[heavensgift2girls]

@ update. I would be upset at any man that took sexual advantage of a woman like that. Not all guys are scum like that. I don't lead women on, and I don't want them leading me on. Two wrongs do not make a right.

[Anonymous]

When a guy does favors for me and not others it is a turn-ff for me.

When anyone does things for me without my asking, it is just a waste of time and I am then emotionally blackmailed into giving them attention and praise.

I always say: I'd rather a guy who cleans his own dishes

than one who holds my own d*mn door.

I was raised : if someone does something for you, graciously accept.

How many of the guys posting claiming girls should not use guys who do nice things are also of the mentality that door-holding requires 'thanks you's or that smiles and self-introductions to conversations require responses?

How about: only do things for people you are in a partnership with, things that you need to progress what you are both trying to achieve? This would be for instance doing your homework when you are assigned a study partner in school. This would be arriving to staff meetings on time. This would be accepting the prerequisite of condoms for sexual intercourse.

I find it condescending at best, disingenuous and manipulative definitely.

If he can;t hold the door for his friend, I don't want him holding a door for me.

A 'jerk' will always prove himself a 'jerk' no matter how he tries to 'prove himself worthy' which, again, is F'ed up.

What does he need to be worthy of ?

Objectification is not just a fancy way of saying 'checking out t*ts'. It means turning a human being into a trophy, statue or fictitious idea of your desired thing.

The more I read/ hear of males' version of 'the nice guy finishes last' the more I am becoming convinced that those males who complain about that are far from understanding what a good person is- much more than fake sometimes-manners.

[Fitzroy]

The Ten Rules of Chivalry:

Thou shalt believe all the church teaches and observe all its directions

Thou shalt defend the church

Thou shalt respect all weaknesses and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them

Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born

Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy

Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation and without mercy

Thou shalt perform scrupulosuly the fuedal duties, if they be not contrary to the laws of God

Thou shalt never lie and remain faithful to thy pledged word

Thou shalt be generous and give largesse to everyone

Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and Good and the foe of Injustice and Evil

[oOsweet~o~nessOo]

Not at all.

He does it of his own accord.

Be different if you were manipulating him into doing it for you by using his attraction for you against him.

But if he see's a pretty girl he wants to do stuff for - why are you wrong for having him do you a favor?

Is the old lady a total snobby bitch for having the kid decide to help her cross the street?

Yess...

Your friends logic...

I question it.

[ArtistBboy]

Chivalry is completely separate than beggary; where has this world gone wrong to relate the two in the same topic.

[Fitzroy]

@ArtistBboy

The Ten Rules of Chivalry:

Thou shalt believe all the church teaches and observe all its directions

Thou shalt defend the church

Thou shalt respect all weaknesses and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them

Thou shalt love the country in which thou wast born

Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy

Thou shalt make war against the Infidel without cessation and without mercy

Thou shalt perform scrupulosuly the fuedal duties, if they be not contrary to

[Anonymous]

Money is different. I know if someone is being dishonest with me or I'm being dishonest with them about money, that I'm going to try and fix it. Even if it is a discount.

Love on the other hand can be a little different. If he likes doing things for you, it's probably because he's just a good guy and or that he finds you attractive. I'll hold a door open for someone, whether they're attractive or not. It's just a civil thing to do. However, I really think that if you don't like the guy that you need to be honest with him about it. So that at least he knows if he's going to continue doing things for you, he knows why he's doing them

[Opinion Owner]

Men have feelings too you know. We don't like to be used, as much as women don't. There are people out there who don't mind, but we're not all the same, get over yourself!

[Anonymous]

I guess it would depend on whether you lead him on to continue to get favors.

[Opinion Owner]

@update: A guy wouldn't really ask that question, would he? I do think it is wrong for people to lead on others no matter which gender either of them are. I don't know if you are leading him on or not.

I would tell that girl in your hypothetical situation that she is stupid. That never works.

And if I could talk to the guy that's doing you favors, I'd also tell him that he is stupid. When you treat girls in such a way, they lose respect for you. It happens time and time again.

[Asker]

I'm not leading him on, I'm just cool as hell. He likes my personality, I treat him with respect so he doesn't mind doing things for me. What's wrong with that? If he had a problem with it he wouldn't be doing it.

[Opinion Owner]

The only problem would be if he actually thought this was going some place. I think him getting the feeling you're not interested and still doing things is fine. If you're not leading him on in any way, this isn't something you should worry about.

If you felt he was clinging on to some notion that he will be able to date you and was doing things to try to impress you, you'd feel a bit sorry for him, wouldn't you?

[jasonmal]

nice, you are on good way to learn how to be gold digger :)

[Anonymous]

Don't take advantage of it

[Anonymous]

He's a keeeper

[NewClassic]

Most likey it is